Podcasting since 2009, enjoys a solid conversation and a good drink.
Today on the show Casey gets to sit down with the artist on Batman/TMNT and Injustice/He-Man Freddie Williams II! This is a really fun interview that you will not want to miss!Find Freddie online:https://freddieart.com/https://twitter.com/Freddieart “Drinks and Comics with Spoiler Country!”https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC25ZJLg6vL4jjRgC1ebshCA Did you know we have a YouTube channel?https://youtube.com/channel/UCstl1UHQVUC85DrCagF-wuQ Follow us on Social Media:http://facebook.com/spoilercountry/http://twitter.com/spoiler_countryhttp://instagram.com/spoilercountry/ Kenric:http://twitter.com/XKenricX John:http://twitter.com/y2clhttp://instagram.com/y2cl/http://y2cl.nethttp://eynesanthology.com Casey:https://twitter.com/robotseatguitarhttps://thecomicjam.com/ Buy John’s Comics!http://y2cl.net/the-store/ Support us on Patreon:http://patreon.com/spoilercountry Interview scheduled by Jeffery Haashttps://twitter.com/jhaasinterviews Theme music by Good Co Music:https://www.goodcomusic.com/ Transcript for Steve, you know, the Robot with a drinking problem. Transcript Freddie Williams Intervierw [00:00:00] Casey: all right, everybody. Welcome again, to another episode of spoiler country podcast today on the show Freddie Williams: we haave Casey: Freddie Williams. The second Freddie Williams is the second is an artist and writer. He has done works from Batman Ninja turtles.To He-Man to Robin, he’s done a ton of stuff and he has a very distinctive style and I really want to get into his, his specifics about that. And, Freddy. Hi, how you doing, man? Freddie Williams: I’m doing great. Thanks for having me on KCI. I appreciate it. Casey: I hope you enjoyed that terrible introduction, man. If I can only go uphill from there.So, Freddie Williams: it was fine. It was good. Casey: I mean, you ain’t shit halfway through, but I mean, it is.So how you doing, man? How has things been treating you? How has. [00:01:00] Let me, let me be more specific. How has COVID-19 been treating your productivity and, has it put off any projects that you’re working on? Freddie Williams: yeah, so, all right. So we had, let’s see. So we, as in my wife, Kiki and I, my wife, Kiki is my business partner and she also is my, she helps me with art and she travels with me and she, you know, we do everything together.So we had a whole bunch of conventions, planned for. This whole year, we actually had 14 shows planned this year and that’s the most shows we’ve ever planned. and this was going to be the year of conventions for us. So that’s not going the greatest, as you might imagine, but we had six shows planned in six weeks that we’re going to start in February and, go through, it was going to be, let’s see, Vancouver, then.Hawaii, Texas. And then two shows in Australia. Then we’d come home and do a show, our local show, which is called planet Comicon. And that would be the full six [00:02:00] shows. So two of the shows would have been in Australia, but that’s just a lot of travel anyway. Cause the Hawaii show may as well be a different country just because of how Casey: it’s a longest flight.Freddie Williams: Yeah. So we got through five of those six shows and when we were in Australia, we had done Melbourne and then we went to a place called gold coast. Gold coast is kind of like their version of Hawaii in a way. Small sort of side Island there. And we landed in gold coast to the news that Tom Hanks and his wife.We’re gold coast, a film to film a new project. And they had just announced that they had COVID and they were in, you know, they were in gold coast, the same area that we were in, in fact, the very next hotel over. So whenever we got off the flight and we were, You know, getting checked in, you know, Kiki was looking at her Twitter and was telling me about it.And she was like, wait, that’s where we are. And then whenever she looked up the hotel, so basically the day before he had been walking around and doing like a Tom [00:03:00] Hanks had been walking around doing selfies and stuff with, with people on the street, who knows how many of those people make casual contact with him and then, you know, infected or not, who knows.And, It was just a, it was that to me was the first time it felt real. Obviously I knew it was real before that, but before that it felt more abstract because we were basically just traveling, just doing the convention thing. My head was just buried in drawing things for the show, making arrangements and traveling for the show.And that’s it. now Kiki ahead of time had. TA was more cautious than me. Kiki has a nursing background, so she was paying more attention basically than I was. So, yeah, very smart. she was, she had a thought ahead of time to pack us, you know, gloves, hand, sanitizer type stuff. the, the S the.Sanitizing wipes to wipe down our seats and stuff when we travel and masks. And, I personally, at the time, at the very beginning of this, I’m talking about in January when we were, you know, in early [00:04:00] February, when we, when she was first bringing it up and stuff, I thought it would be similar to, you know, the stuff you hear about, like, when we heard about swine flu and whatever it was a couple of years ago, like maybe eight years ago, whatever it was.and I’m not saying that that’s. Casual and to be thrown away, people got very sick and some people died and that sort of thing. But what I’m saying is that there would be a lot of sort of news hype, and then, yeah. And then like a month later you’d be like, Hey, whatever happened with that, it kind of faded away and it sounded really serious, but it just went away and nobody, you knew had it, or nobody knew.That you knew had, been affected by it. That’s what I was expecting and that’s not at all the case. So when we landed in gold coast, it felt much more real. The show itself was better than we fought because, in Australia, their government had like decided that the following Monday would be the stay at home order or something like that.But this convention was that weekend before. So it was like, Their rules wouldn’t go into effect until the [00:05:00] following Monday. It was a weird situation where I think the convention organizers were kind of stuck in like, do we cancel voluntarily? But if so, it’s very bad financially. Or do we go ahead but risk something?And to my knowledge, nothing bad happened of it. but they were just in a really strange position. So then right after gold coast, like the very next morning, may Kiki, our good friend Johnson. Mariva our good friend David yard. And they’re Australian artists who, David Yarden does work for Marvel all the time.He draws Jean grape covers and storm and stuff like that. And then, Johnson Riva. He’s done, adventures of, The I’m sorry. What I meant to say was the Avenger is not adventurous. I’m like, he’s done the Batman Ninja turtle, the animated looking book, the, the one that’s called Batman industrials adventures.And he’s drawn a bunch of other stuff and Ninja turtles and stuff. and they’re good friends with us and, and we were all traveling together. And we all traveled to this place that we call the beach house, which was like cold Berra, I think is what it’s called. It’s a place in, in Australia that has a lot of [00:06:00] beaches.It’s beautiful there. And we were in this beach house drawing, having a good time, not really paying attention to the media. We’d go to a beach, we’d come back. And there was hardly anybody at the beach just to let you know, just to be clear. And then we would come home and. You know, we should get out our phones and kind of check stuff.And it was like, wow. It felt like a totally different world. It was like we were in this sort of a paradise, just hanging out with our friends, kind of a quarantine in ourselves, even though that wasn’t necessarily the goal. But, Then we would check and see all these scary things that were being announced.You know, like Australia was about to close their borders. The U S was starting to talk about closing their borders. And we were like, we don’t even know if we can get back home. You know? our flight was supposed to be on the 22nd of March. And then, they post, I’m sorry I said that wrong, but maybe the 21st.And then they, our airline kept pushing it back. And so. We got in, the 23rd of March or something, we weren’t even sure if that would happen, because while we were in the air, when we landed our next connecting [00:07:00] flight was canceled, it was just like 10 more hours for the next flight to be available.So, I mean, I don’t end the, any of the airline workers, they were doing the best that they could. And, It was quite the experience. So it has affected us an awful lot. Like as far as the staying at home part, drawing at home is something that we do all the time. And that’s not that big of a change, but while we were in.Australia. My next project got canceled for DC. The next crossover that I had planned was canceled. And, so, once we got back, I like thought I had several, you know, I thought I had that big project that got canceled. And then I was going to have a couple of smaller projects that all got canceled as well.And so I was like, wow, that’s, that’s a kick in the gut. Yeah. So, but it gave, it opened up the opportunity. The, the next thing that I’m going to be working on, I just signed the, signed the contract a couple of days ago. It’s going to be a creator own book with, Tim Seeley who wrote in justice versus masters of the universe that we worked on together and [00:08:00] became friends from working on that together.we’re going to be doing a creator on book over at aftershock with, Mike Martz, who co-created, and he’s like the main editor there. he and I worked together at DC and at Marvel. Oh, wow. He’s a, he’s an awesome guy, Mike Martinez. So I’m going to get to work with two of my friends on a creator own project, and we’ll be starting that a couple of weeks.So, Casey: can you tell us a little bit about that? That’s awesome. Freddie Williams: Yeah. Thanks. it’s going to be, I can’t tell you a whole lot about it, but it’s going to be, it’s going to have some fantasy elements in it. And that’s the main thing that I was talking to Tim about. We went to power con last year, which was when and justice master of the universe issue like five or six was about to come out and they had just.Announced the new masters of the multi-verse book that Tim was writing. And at the time Dan Fraga was drawing, and we all hung out and went to dinner and we were talking about like, let’s do a crater on book together, sometime in the future. Of course we didn’t know this would be the time. and he was like, what do you want to draw?I was like, I just want to draw something fantasy. I played a lot of D and D whenever I was in high school. And, fantasy is one [00:09:00] of my, you know, first loves. So, and drawing He-Man is fantasy oriented, but I wanted to do. You know, more of that. So more true fantasy, like elves and wizards and stuff. So there’s going to be some elements of that, but it’s not only that.And I’m really excited. I’m really excited to be working on I’m like Tim is so busy right now. It’s a total contrast. He’s like writing four different series right now. So I’m just waiting for him to get the, his other he’s about to finish up some other commitments and then he’ll start writing stuff for me to actually start drawing.So. Casey: That’s awesome. Have you gotten into like the, the character design stage or anything like that yet? Freddie Williams: Yes. Yeah, that’s what we pitched. And that’s what got approved, over an aftershock. So I, I did all the character designs and then I drew out what they call a pitch cover, which will probably be the issue one cover.So it it’s, related to the story, but it’s more of what they call iconic. So it’s, less story specific and more of like a general feel of what the story overall will be about something that could be used for like a first issue or first, [00:10:00] cover for a trade or something like that. Casey: And aftershock man, that company is they’re putting out some, just some fire lately.I love that. I love the books we’re putting. Freddie Williams: Yeah, they’re it’s because they’re, they treat the, the creators really well. And, Mike Martz specifically, he has like long or deep roots at Marvel and DC. So like back in the nineties, he worked at Marvel for awhile. He went over to DC for about eight years and he went back to Marvel for a couple of years and then they started aftershock.So, I know personally that was a really big draw for me to be working there as specifically working with Mike again. Casey: so. You you’ve done art for several years. You,yes, you’ve done the arts. You’ve made the arts. How long, how, how hard was it [00:11:00] for you to switch over to a, a more digital, a more digital look cause you started in a more traditional fashion, Freddie Williams: correct? Yes. So, I mean, we’re talking about like what feels like ancient history at this point. but I’m happy to talk about it, but it was, when I, when I first started the work processing, the state of the art work process and comic books seem to be.You drew a thumbnail sketch on a piece of printer paper, what was called typing paper back then? I’m not sure how old you are. I’m an old man. So we called it typing paper. Nowadays it’d be printer paper. you would draw something about the size of a piece of a printer paper. Then you would blow it up to like 143% Gish around in there to make it 11 by 17.So you had this really bad. Layout sketch, on, you know, that was now blown up to be full 11 by 17 size, but then you would light box. So you would trace that layout, just the shapes and stuff on to your good Bristol board and like light non-photo blue pencil. [00:12:00] And, then you would pencil over that and ink over that, et cetera.So that was like the state of the art. there were some people who would use like projectors, like, the old school, high school projectors, where you would do your layout, and like put it on the projector and it would kind of project your image onto your art board and then you trace it that way.So you wouldn’t have to use your light box. I love talking about stuff like that. I love talking about work process and stuff. but, what happened for, so that was state of the art, but whenever I got to, I don’t know, about 2000. The year, 2000, maybe the year, 2001, something like that. I was working on a, on a project with a.With a friend of mine, but I won’t name the project because I’m about to say I’m about to say something. He was kind of a picky writer. we’re friends now, but we were working and to his credit, I was a much more novice artist. So he was correct a lot of the time with, with what he was requesting. So it was a combination of me being new and him being picky that he was asking for a lot of changes and, [00:13:00] So I would like turn in some rough layouts for his approval and he’d have like, you know, make this bigger, turn this guy around blah, blah, blah.And, so I would either have to erase my rough layout and redraw it, or, draw on a separate sheet of paper, the revised layouts, and then scan them in. And composite them digitally. And then I started just making the changes digital, right. So I would still draw the first layout on paper, scan it in change things digitally.And then I just started like any of the roughs I was doing. I would just draw them digitally, still print them out, like at 11 by 17. So it kept it, it saved me the trip to like a Kinko’s back when Kinko’s existed, before it was taken over by FedEx office. Printed out 11 by 17 and then light box is still manually.And then, so what I’m trying to describe is that it was very organic, my growth into a digital direction. and this would have been 2002 ish. I started trying to draw my layouts a hundred percent digital, and then I would start [00:14:00] doing what are called breakdowns. Digital breakdowns are like tighter structure drawings.They’re not as. Rough and loose as you know, the rough layouts. And then I would print that out and just directly on my art board now I didn’t even have to light box it and that, and you know, I print it out in light blue round to the art board, and that was like a revelation, you know, cause it saves so much time and the tediousness of light box in something.so by 2004, I guess I was a hundred percent digital at that time and I stayed. Basically a hundred percent digital other than. Commissions or something like that until, 2006. And then I started doing like something once I, and that was, I started working for DC comics and like really late 2005. And, by the time I was doing Robyn drawing Robyn, I would draw basically everything digital, except for like a cover.Or a pinup splash page that I might be able to sell later or something that I wanted to try and interesting [00:15:00] inking technique on like a splatter effect or, you know, that sort of a thing. And, so it was an evolution to go full digital. And then after a few years of that, I loved working digital, but, I started going back to traditional for the inking and, and now it’s almost like painting the ink wash stuff that I do.So, now I’m. All digital on the layouts and some, and the structure drawings. So the breakdowns, and then I print that out still right on my Bristol board, but I usually print it out in gray. Since I’m doing ink wash, it kind of fades into the, you know, the ink blocks will or, or blend with the light gray.And, basically that’s essentially my, my work process now is digital layouts and breakdowns ink wash on paper. And then I scan it back in and do some digital touch ups and clean cleanups, and then send it over to the colorist and that sort of thing. Casey: Do you think that that kind of helps keep you sharp and keeps you less reliant on being able to just kind of a [00:16:00] nitpick with stuff that you would normally do if you were doing all digital?Freddie Williams: I had a pretty good handle on how much I should fidget with things that were digital. I’ve heard horror stories of people who would. Keep futsing digital digitally, keep flexing with something that was very small and it was basically insignificant. And I never really caught myself in that trap, but I fell into a hell of a lot of other traps, working digitally that, that I see other newer digital artists falling into like to clean up a line or to samey.Same as what I call Samy. Same in quotes, where. The digital brush that they’re using gives them the same result it’s too, even, or it’s too predictably thick and thin, and there’s a lack of variety to their line work. And that was totally the same thing that happened to me. I just, I think I did it maybe a couple of years before, you know, other artists or something.so working on paper, what I, what I think it gives me is the enjoy the enjoyment of the tactile interaction with the paper. [00:17:00] Sometimes frustration with the paper stock and stuff, but, but usually I enjoy it. Like there’s essentially Bristol board is what we use and it’s made of mainly cotton, but sometimes you’ll get Bristol board that is, has kind of an uneven or an.Now, what is it irregular sort of finish. So that parts of it will feel a little rougher than it should be, or it’ll take the ink a little different than it should. And that in combination with the humidity or how much ink you’ve loaded into your brush, or even how, how old your brush is, all those things.Add a slight variance of unpredictability. That again can sometimes be frustrating, but usually it’s fun. Yeah. Cause I know, I know the kind of thing I’m going to get. And so it’s kind of fun, the overlapping elements of, of unpredictability. And so I wouldn’t say that it, it like. It stopped me from nitpicking.Cause I, I, I am taking longer now on the artwork. So I think I nitpick more now on the ink wash work, but I’m much more [00:18:00] proud of the end result or I feel a much bigger sense of accomplishment when I finish a page or book or something. and part of the reason that I went this direction, by the way, was one of, one of my nieces, Probably, I don’t know, six, seven years ago at this point, she was here in the studio and, I was going through one of my portfolio binders too.Every at the end of every year, I’ll, I’ll get, all the work that I’ve drawn for that year, print it out and then into a portfolio binder, and then I’ll sleeve the pages and stuff. And she saw me doing that or I was rearranged or something and she asked what they were. And, I told her what I just told you.And then I said, feel free to take a look at them if you want and you don’t have to. And so she looked at some of the work that when I was younger, And she seemed interested partially because I was closer to who were her age at the time. and then when she got to the stuff at DC for DC comics, like my, more digital clean stuff, and she was seeing it in a form that it was not colored.So it was just like this really open line stuff. It almost looked like coloring books, sort of our org. Yeah. [00:19:00] She started flipping through the book much faster. She had much less interest in each individual page. She had commented. Look how big that. Book was because that, you know, I had done twice as many pages at this much more open style than the more detailed work, which is much slower.and it’s not like, it’s not like she looked at me and said, I like the more detailed stuff more or anything, but it was, it was kind of like a revelation seeing somebody else look at it who maybe, I don’t know, it was like her honest reaction because she was young enough not to like couch her reactions to try to, Spare my feelings or something, you know, something like that.So, anyway, it’s like it fed into something in me that made me feel like, yeah, it’s like, I’m, I’m proud of the volume of work, but I’m not as proud of each individual pages I would be if I put more detail in it. And so that got me just headed. Back into more of a detailed direction? I think Casey: so. So I w I was looking into your stuff earlier today about, about when you decided to [00:20:00] switch to doing a more equal wash technique.And it kind of made me think, so in 1997, Augusta national golf course, right? Tiger woods, bam kicks everybody’s assimmediately, immediately. Goes to a, a swing coach and changes up his swing, completely changes up his swing. And, it kinda made me think of that because around the time that you changed your art style, you had, you had recently either you adjust, you were about to win an ISER or you adjust, won an Eisner Freddie Williams: for, Casey: your, what is it?Mr. Miracle, seven soldiers or seven soldiers, mr. Miracle. So, what was that like jumping off the deep end going, I’m going to change how I do things. Freddie Williams: I, I want to, I could see why. Y, you would connect those, [00:21:00] those series of events, but actually who won the Eisner was grant Morrison, who was the main architect.But the reason that I know, cause technically I, I, I earned or won one 30th of an Eisner or something because it’s like grant Morrison. It’s it’s like grant Morrison for the seven soldiers series. And the seven soldier series was like five or six different mini series, including the one that I drew, but the one that I drew part of.So, it’s more credit to, to grant Morrison. Because he orchestrated this big, strange event that worked so well. And, I was just a part of that and it took a couple of years for the, you know, for him to win that Eisner, or for that series to win that Eisner or something like that. So. I think that’s probably, so I don’t think that the two events are as connected as it might’ve seemed in the dates, but I [00:22:00] could see why you’d make that connection. Casey: for you’re telling me you’re not the tiger woods of, of art, of all the ones Freddie Williams: that’s always underneath my credits. It’s like, Freddie Williams, the self proclaimed tiger woods. No, I’ve definitely not. Casey: So I, you know, I made like a huge leap there connecting like art with comics, but I mean, it, it really is, is, is a guy who is, you know, recognized as being, you know, at the top of his game, like really.Putting out great work and going, you know what, I’m gonna do this, you know, with my mouth now I’m going to hold the brush and my mouth and do it that way. Screw you guys. Yeah, there was definitely a big Freddie Williams: change. So, so from a publisher standpoint, what DC was used to, to hiring me for was a more simplified, a slightly more cartoony.[00:23:00] Less rendered art style. And whether I did that digitally or did it on paper, it was still the way that I just described to you. So from their perspective, they didn’t care what I did on paper or what I did digital. It was just as long as I was delivering the work they expected on time. And I’m, I’ve always prided myself and built our life really around.The artwork really being the focus of, of our lives, essentially. So, but, but separately from what I was doing at DC for a few years, I started working in an ink wash style as an experiment and as a way to reconnect with one of the, The artists that I, I love, I don’t know if you know who Travis Sharay or Travis.Okay. I believe it’s pronounced. Sure. Ray, but I always used to pronounce it Charisse, like what? This is really hard. Casey: Like, I don’t live that Travis jurist man, but yeah, if you’ve only ever read it, then, I mean, Yeah, Freddie Williams: likely you would be like me and say [00:24:00] Charest or, you know, how, how you had said at tourist.but I think it’s sure Ray, I believe so, but he drew, first of all, I love his artwork, especially around the time that he was at at WildStorm. He was, inspiring and intimidating. his work is so. Powerful and it rapidly evolved. And just a couple of years, it’s like he had 20 years of evolution and just like two or three years, it was outrageous, but, but amazing stuff.And the style that he worked in that gripped me, or one of the styles he, he worked in that grip me was, on a book called wild cats. X-Men golden age. I think that’s what it was called. and it was, there was a series of crossovers where it was wild cats and X men. But it was like told through, by different artists through, through the years or through the decades.And he drew the one that focused on zealot is from wild cats. And then Wolverine of course from X-Men. And because they’re both so long lived, they told, he told a story of them during world war two. And, I [00:25:00] believe it was Casey: looking at the art now and it’s fantastic. It’s Freddie Williams: amazing. It’s amazing. and it holds up and it blows almost everything away there on the shelves nowadays, not everything, but most of you know, it’s very good.And this stuff at this point is like 20 years old, which is crazy to me. because it looks so good. And it’s also a period piece it’s artwork that is. Made to look like it’s from the forties, but it’s, you know, it still holds up in 2020. but what I’m getting at is he started off that book. if you see the originals or if you see it without color, he started off the book working in a Penony style.So just a bunch of thin lines that created shades of gray. The rendering. but by like page three or four or five, he started introducing gray tones in ink wash. And that was the first time I ever seen him wash. The first time I had heard of it. of course people have been working in diluted India ink, you know, for jet, you know, a hundred years before that, but that was the first exposure to me.And it was an artist that I love their [00:26:00] work so much. And by the end of that book, most of the rendering is an ink wash, with, you know, some pen and ink rendering in there. And I read some interview with him. I don’t think it was published in that book, but maybe it was in wizard magazine or something where he described that he.got a few pages into this book and he thought, man, this is just taking so long. to draw everything with all these individual thin lines. I wonder if there’s a way I can get, you know, a gray tone in quotes with, you know, another way. And so he that’s what prompted him to create some ink wash and little jar.So he would have like five different jars and he put like a lighter value in one, then a medium than a heavier, heavier values. And that’s what he would. Brush or paint with, and that style was intriguing to me. So now flash forward to like the year 2007 or eight. so this would have been, I guess, what, 10 years after he drew his book.I started experimenting with that on commissions. So the, you know, commissions are just like for private [00:27:00] collectors. it’s not for publication and I didn’t really know what I was doing. I would like kind of clear it with the. The art collector, I’d be like, you know, Hey, how about gray tones on this one?And they would say, yeah, sure. And then I would try, you know, all these different effects to try to get the gray tones that I was after. And, it was like a fun way to get, you know, get paid, to experiment with, a rendering style that I was. Interested in and DC wouldn’t necessarily have seen these, but it was like I was developing this style, you know, quietly.And so, I started doing certain, like captain Adam, when that came around in 2012, which was a part of the new 52. I drew that and I didn’t do it in ink wash at the beginning. I did it with like these sketch and wash pencils that would let you kind of create a half a gray tone, but with a pencil ed, where you would pencil onto the page with this pencil, and then you would use a water brush and it would try to liquefy it and smear it around and turn it gray.Really? Yeah. It’s it’s I would recommend it [00:28:00] for anybody who wants to experiment with gray tones, but doesn’t want to get into all the. paraphernalia of ink wash. Like it’s just a water brush and this pencil you’re pretty used to using a pencil. So you likely, you know, that part won’t feel that weird.And then the water brush you can kind of experiment with. And if you don’t smell it around enough, you can always reliquify it and smear it more. and that was, a breakthrough sort of experiment, a series that allowed me to experiment a lot. I had a, although DC. They were like, you know, some editors were like, we love all this experimentation.It’s just great to see you trying all these new styles. And then there was another editor I worked with later, who said, let me tell you, you’re scaring the hell out of some of us. Casey: That’s actually what he said to me. Freddie Williams: and, and I was like, well, I can still work in the other style, the pen and ink style.That’s what you want. And then I ended up working in that on, so after captain Adam, I went to green arrow. I drew. And so captain Adam was like this really funky style that I just described. And then a green arrow was like a traditional pen and [00:29:00] ink style again. And then I also did the movement, which was a book written by Gail Simone in a parenting style.And those were the books that I was working on right before I did this, eight page short story for dark horse, of Conan for an anthology. They had called a Robert E. Howard Savage sword. So it would just be like a bunch of. You know, Robert, how Robert, he Howard properties, he invented Conan, but he invented other ones too.And, I drew an eight page short story in ink wash, and that was the first time I drew it sequentially and I was using ink wash throughout instead of this, you know, instead of the gray tone pencil that I was describing and I had a great time on it. I knew that I could do it sequentially. It didn’t feel too muddy to me.Because there’s some types of styles that you get into and you’re like, what have I done? I cannot possibly maintain this, this, I don’t know this workload or the stamina to keep this going. You know, like if you were drawing something that you only had a week to [00:30:00] do, and you were spending, you know, a full day on one panel, you would be like, what the hell have I done?What have I started here? You know? but with the, you know, with a little bit of extra time on my deadline, I could do this much more. Detailed labored over page of ink wash. And that Conan work along with a few covers I did for DC is what got me on to, Batman Ninja turtles. And that’s the same style I I’ve been working in mostly since then, which would have been from 2015 all the way up to now.Casey: So when you did that, that thing for dark horse, what were you, did it kind of freak you out when you turn that final page in and everything, ready to print where you just kind of waiting for somebody to talk to talk about it, or by then, were you established enough in, in your style, in your new style to, to feel fairly confident about it?Freddie Williams: I felt freaked out mainly because that same short story, I also had to color. And so I did pencils on it and I didn’t [00:31:00] really know what I was doing on the color so much. And so even looking back at it, I think I kind of botched the colors and we had to turn it around really quickly. So I was at the Phoenix Comicon that year, which would have been, I think, 2014 and, We, Kiki, when I say we, I mean, Kiki, she stayed back at the hotel and was working on what’s called color flats.So she was like flatting out the pages laying in the solid colors. And then, I was at the convention and then finishing up like the last page of that or something. And. we had like, just like a day or two, once we got back from the show to turn into pages. So that’s what, what I was actually freaking out about the most.but after that, I’m not even sure what my very next, project was. There was something that kept me in between there about a year. and I switched. I remember switching back from the ink wash stuff to the pen and ink stuff, for that next one, maybe it was, there was a project called brain boy that I worked on over at dark horse.That hasn’t terrible. Great. Casey: Well, Freddie Williams: it’s a terrible name, but it’s, it’s written really well. And the character’s really cool. I [00:32:00] really liked the character. Frank, I’m sorry. Fred van Lente. Is the one who wrote it and he did an awesome job. I really like how he wrote him. So flippantly, but vulnerable still.and, I did some other stuff over at dark horse as well, but, so it was what I felt like when I turned in that cone and story is at least now I have a project that I could point to. Under my belt, a small project, but a project that I could point to and say, this is what I could do. If you give me the chance, you know, who would be cool?You know, is there anybody who would let me work in this style? Who knows? I don’t know. But, then it, you know, Jim Chadwick, my editor on Batman Ninja turtles is the one who gave me the thumbs up. Casey: That’s great. That’s awesome. And that style I’ve always loved that style. When I was a kid, I, I used to, be drug around to all of like the little, like the flea malls and stuff like that.And the antique shops. And they would always have seventies horror comics. And they would the art in those comics, like the, the writing, maybe not the best all the time, [00:33:00] but some like huge people would be doing the art and it would be in like the quash style. And that was also my first, exposure to Hollywood.And it’s our work where, I mean, he was a master with a pin, so yeah. And I mean, he would have people basically do like the rough layouts of the page and he didn’t just go in and do everything and eat and, Freddie Williams: yeah. But it, it creates a great mood that, that kind of inquest style or yeah, while he was with us, a master, of course, you know, I I’m friends with ’em.With Kevin Eastman. I’m pleased to say he’s a really, really nice guy. He told me a story that was kind of disturbing, and I was gonna, I’m going to run it by you and see if you’ve ever heard of this before. So while he would apparently was a very depressed person, like in life, Casey: I’ve heard he was a kind of an Freddie Williams: ass.Oh. And I don’t even know that that’s, you know, like Kevin didn’t tell me that part, but he said that Wally wood was asked once, [00:34:00] Like, if you could do it, the question was something along the lines of, if you could do it over again, what advice would you give yourself when you were younger or something like that?And he said, if I could go back and do it all again, I would chop off my own hands and never become a cartoonist. And when, when Kevin told me this, I was like, are you serious? He goes, yeah. He was like really dark. And that he also committed suicide. But I don’t know if that’s true. I don’t know if either of those facts are true.I was going to ask if, you know, if you’re, since you’re a big fan of, of Hollywood, if maybe you had heard those or Casey: I’ve heard this suicide thing, I’ve also heard he had, like, I think he had like, Issues with, with substance abuse. Oh, like he was trying to self medicate and stuff, but Freddie Williams: he, Casey: yeah. Wow. He had a ton of talent.And, that, that quote though makes me think of the, Jack Kirby quote was comics will break your heart. Freddie Williams: Yes. Yeah. I’ve heard that as well. Casey: Yeah, it’s yeah, a little bit, you know, more [00:35:00] extreme, but yeah, it kindasmidge. Freddie Williams: Yeah. Comments will break your heart versus chopping off your own hands to stop you from ever drawing comic books. But it’s a similar sentiment, you know, it’s probably coming from the same point of, of hurt. You know, Casey: there is another, apocryphal story I’ve heard about him in that. he would slowly increase the size of, power girls bust and, just to see if the editor was paying attention.So, yeah. Yeah. You, if, if you like power girl, That whole Wally would. Freddie Williams: Yeah. That might be one of the reasons that she stayed around all these year though. Cause that’s, that is definitely a distinguishing characteristic of hers. Casey: It’s a look it’s still, I mean, she can’t help it, but yeah. That’s Freddie Williams: yeah. [00:36:00] Yeah.Wow. So super prolific and everything, but maybe he just had to be because the market wasn’t that good at the time. And. And maybe if he had a substance abuse problem than that, you know, made him need to draw faster to, to feed it, Casey: you know? Yeah. Yeah. And so you did, you did Batman and did hurtles. How was that experience?Because, I mean, how, how do you marry those two worlds? Freddie Williams: to me they felt married essentially from the, the two movies that came out whenever I was a kid. So, the 1989, Tim Burton. Batman film. And then the 1990 Ninja turtles live action film, have a better active back. Yeah. Back to back in a very similar, visual language.Now the Tim Burton Batman film was more colorful, but they had a similar, use of like heavy moody shadow and sort of stage lighting and that sort of thing. at least it felt like that to me at the time. And, I was into both of them around the same time in [00:37:00] my life, like as far as the comic books and stuff.So I feel like that preconditioned me to associate the two of them together. Plus there’s a heavy overlap in the type of mythology or the lower for those, for those worlds. And, so it felt very natural to me, the grittiness of the turtles versus the grittiness of the type of Batman story that we were telling.but as far as the specifics, like, I had a couple of years before, I, you know, Batman Ninja turtles was a reality. I had heard from Bobby Curnow, who was the editor for the, or it still is the, Ninja turtle editor over at IDW. And, I was pestering him trying to do some other Ninja turtle work because I had done a cover and some other like commission work.you know, for private collectors, but other than just that one cover, I just want it to do more. And Bobby had said, you know, there’s some talks in the works that there might be, some crossovers between IDW and, properties and DC properties. And if that happens, you’re, you’re kind of a no brainer for it because I had such an established [00:38:00] relationship with.DC comics handout, but he didn’t say specifically with Batman and the turtles, he just said, nah, you know, the Ninja turtles with something over it, DC. but like two years passed and I hadn’t heard anything more about it. So I just assume that that had fallen apart. Cause that’s type of thing happens all the time where a business deal starts, but then something falls apart in contract negotiations.but then one day I saw this retweet by my editor at the time Jim Chadwick. And it was a retweet of. star Trek and green lantern that was going to cross over. So that’s IDW and DC. And, I thought, Oh, that’s pretty neat. There. They must have worked out some sort of paperwork if that, if they have this crossover, probably there’s other crossovers that they’re thinking about.so I. Shot Jim Chadwick and, you know, an email and we had a good working relationship anyway. but I sent them an email and said, Hey, you know, I saw this green lantern star Trek thing. And if you guys are going to be doing some sort of crossover with like Batman and the Ninja turtles, please keep me in mind.Here’s a link to my Conan work, which [00:39:00] was the eight page ink wash story that I told you about. And some of this, nitro work I had done. And also Jim Chadwick, I had already drawn some like Batman related stuff for him, so he knew I could draw that man. And, he told me later that. You know, they were joking in the office that I must’ve been psychic because that was the day they were talking about the potential artists choice for that series.And I just so happened to have a really good timing. I never have good timing ever in my life. Okay. So this was very out of character and I’m very lucky that Jim Chadwick said yes, and that, you know, Nickelodeon. Who owns the Ninja, turtles and IDW. All of those people said, yes, it, coincidentally, you know, I, Jim Chadwick who had already been working with, he was the editor for the book.And I didn’t know he was going to be Joan Hilty, which is an editor I worked with when I was drawing the flash. She is now at Nickelodeon and she was, she’s like the person who approves the talent, that’s going to work on the Ninja turtles. And [00:40:00] so she knew who I was that I was hopefully going to do a good job and stuff.So all of that stuff fell into place in a way that I. Did not know consciously and did not, you know, try to orchestrate it. Just, I got really lucky. cause it, anybody would have loved to draw this series, I mean, and potentially would have done a great job. And, I just got really lucky. So, I, the first thing I did when I got the assignment was, cause I had a couple of months before the first couple of scripts would, would come in.I did this, did these style guides for myself, kind of to run it by my editors and just to prove, not prove to myself, but to establish to myself what kind of care, what the visual language of the characters. So like, you know, how big and stocky would I make Batman? How big a stocky would I make the turtles and what sort of things would I do to try to differentiate them from one another?And, All of that stuff took me like about a week to put together and then I emailed it to [00:41:00] DC and to IDW and they all said, Hey, that looks great. And I said, really, you don’t have any notes. They’re like, no, it looks great. Cause like you have a good idea. And I was like, Oh, okay, cool. I just expected it to be harder than that.You know, I expected you to, you know, give me some notes or something, but they liked everything it did. And. That was the visual motif that I went with. but it, it just felt like a really natural fit as far as the types of worlds and the visual language. Casey: That’s awesome. And your work on that book is insane.It is fantastic. If you don’t mind me finding out a little bit, Freddie Williams: I appreciate that. Casey: How was your, how was your experience working with, with Tinian? Freddie Williams: James is awesome. This was our first project together and, he, we were both, you know, he. He had a more established name, I think, as a Batman guy. And now it’s gotten much bigger Casey: that Freddie Williams: man, you know, books.and so the first issue [00:42:00] that he, that he turned in, I was like, I, I honestly can’t think of a better, this couldn’t have been better. Basically. He has like a, or had, or has a. A great take on the characters in a way that fits for a great large story, but also it makes room for likely small character moments throughout.So it keeps you entertained and engrossed on both levels. That’s a hard thing to do by the way, it’s to keep you engaged on both levels. So, and then since then we’ve become friends and, have, you know, So the, the working relationship on that first volume was more like he was writing a full script, except for, you know, like towards the end of the first series, we had worked together so much by that point that he left things a lot more in quotes open, which is where the script isn’t written fully as much as more written than a plot method.and then we worked together and the plot method on all of volume, two. And that was partially to accommodate. He had a really busy schedule during the [00:43:00] 2017 timeframe we’re working on it. And then, and 2019. So last year when we did Batman editorial volume three, it was kind of a combination of the two where he left anything that was actually, he left it very open and the plot method for me to pace out.And then anything that was more dialogue heavy, he wrote a full script on, so it was like a nice balance of the two. So. but he’s an awesome guy. He’s brilliant and a very humble, so it’s great to work with somebody like that. Casey: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, you guys, obviously you have a great working relationship cause you, you you’ve done several of those books, any plans for, for any more of the Batman Freddie Williams: Ninja turtles.I have a plan for a hundred more volumes personally. I want to draw them forever. now there’s. There’s ideas that it’s like, whenever you’re working on a creative endeavor, you ha you’re kind of inside of that world enough that you start thinking of possibilities that are really good ideas, but they [00:44:00] don’t necessarily work for the project that you’re actually writing or actually putting together at that moment.So, James and I have ideas for future volumes and we’ve talked about the potential if, if it presents itself. and I hope it does, but that. Just on an aside, like those decisions are made much higher above our head then than what we can control usually. So I’ve made it really clear to DC and tidy w and, and then also James has as well that we call dibs on if there’s more volumes that we definitely are interested in that we’d love to do it.And that we’d love to work together on another one, but, I think that the contract stuff is, is really where that would take place, you know, is if, if they figure out something again, a similar arrangement. So I hope they do. And I hope they call us back. Speaking Casey: of contract stuff. Yeah. Can you men Thundercats.So you’re, [00:45:00] you’re only a few years older than I am. So I’m assuming that you, you had experience with both of those as, as a kid. Freddie Williams: how, Casey: how was that experience did you enjoy, did you enjoy getting into that world and, Also, just as somebody who, who works on properties, that you have several people, not just one editor doing oversight, you have several different people.This also applies for the Batman Ninja turtle thing. How nerve racking is that to have somebody people kind of looking over your shoulder? Freddie Williams: that’s a very good question. It’s a very, I mean, it’s, you’re right. You’re right. It is, it can be nerve wracking. because, so there’s already an expectation I’m putting on myself because I, you know, as you, you know, to answer your question about, if I, you know, we’re familiar with those two properties or, you know, because we’re about the same age and stuff yet, when I was about in third and fourth grade, those, He-Man and the fender cats were the two best [00:46:00] cartoons along with Vultron, you know, some GI Joe came in a little bit later, but, transformers of course, you know, I’m not wanting to leave anything out here.I’m just saying that Humana Thundercat specifically really gripped me and they have a very different animation style, but they feel similar in the type of tone, like a fantasy mixed with. Advanced technology and magic and all that stuff. So, there was a high expectation for myself and like a fear of like, don’t screw this up.but the same thing with Batman Ninja turtles, and this was like, you know, an initial turtles that came out when I was about, those two movies came out when I was like 12 or so, something like that, I think maybe 13, Because I haven’t done actually the math, but the, the amount of the thunder cat stuff came out, you know, when I was younger.So like maybe eight or nine or something, I don’t know. So I’ve got the whole timetable mixed up, but it’s, it’s something like that. but the, the point I’m making is that, the, the properties are awesome. I associated them together as well when I was younger. Cause I had toys, even though they were very different scales, like Leno was way [00:47:00] taller than He-Man as far as the toys.cause they were the, The fender cats were at least the one that had the light up eyes and stuff. The liner that had the light up eyes, he was almost like as tall as a Barbie doll or something. and then the, the He-Man toys were much shorter and more squat, you know, but the, as far as having so many.You know, so many people to be accountable to or somebody to editors and stuff that is, that can be nerve wracking. it can be a lot of cooks in the kitchen. Potentially. I had worked at hallmark cards right before I started working at DC comics. There was a little bit of an overlap there when I was still working at hallmark.And when I first started working at, at DC and in, hallmark at the time I was working in the licensing department. And so I was used to having. Licensed answer approvals and having several, checks and balances of approval. So I think that prepared me a little bit. for many years later, when I started working on Batman Ninja turtles, and then later human Thundercats, [00:48:00] there was, there’s a certain level.I think the there’s a, establishing trust. Point in the relationship when you first start, that’s probably the most important time it’s like establishing yourself that you’re open to suggestion and criticism, that if you choose, if you make a decision. Hopefully, they’ll see that you’re making it not out of ego, but because you think it’s, for the betterment of the project, but you’re willing to, so you only pick your battles if you really think you’re correct, but you’re still willing to work with them.And then they feel the same way. It’s so on that level, it’s almost like just establishing trust with friends and coworkers, you know? and so with human Thundercats, it was like, Towards the end of Batman is turtles. I was working on issue five or six, like I was pretty close to the end of it. And I contacted Jim Chadwick and I said, We’re getting pretty close to the end of Batman Ninja turtles.Do you have any other projects? I would love to do some more crossovers if you have something like that in mind. And, he wrote back and he said, yeah, we’re thinking [00:49:00] about doing something. I think he said DC just acquired the license to thunder cats. So we’re thinking about doing something with them.That might’ve been his response. It was something like that. And I replied back and said, I would love to draw a fender reboot. and if you guys are still doing crossovers, you know, I would love to cross them over with Humana if that’s a possibility. And that was one of the many things that they were talking about at the time, because, they have a good relationship with Mattel who holds, who holds the license for He-Man.And, so I think that was already kind of in the works as well. Possibility. And since I was expressing interest and they ran in my artwork by the guys at Mattel and it worked out pretty well, there was a little bit of a stumbling start when I first started with them. just to, I had never worked with Mattel before.And, Just getting, you know, getting connect. So as opposed to, you know, I had worked with Bobby who was an IDW editor and worked with Joan Hilty, who was at Nickelodeon and of course worked with Jim Chadwick at DC. Now suddenly I was working with, a [00:50:00] new group of people. So there was, you know, the first issue was a little bit rougher.But we established a good working relationship after that. And then after that, it was, it was much easier throughout the rest of the series. Casey: What’s that? Okay. I was going to say it’s smooth sailing after the rest of it. So just putting this out there, man, next time, if you do another human thunder cats, Freddie Williams: I hope so.I hope to, but go ahead. Casey: I’m going to put a bug in your ear. Okay. Snark. And Orco, they got a gun Freddie Williams: man. What’d you say they gotta go. Casey: They gotta go. I’m putting it out for Norco. They irritate the dog shit out of me. I’m going to piss a ton of humane fans off Puerco is awful. I recently watched the, the Christmas special, the Shira He-Man Christmas special with my five-year-old.Cause she loves it. [00:51:00] And, Orco like idiot. yeah, not a fan and cringy. Yeah. Fuck cringy. I’m sorry. Freddie Williams: Wow. That’s a lot of vitriol. I, man, Casey: I’m done, dude. I’m putting my foot down.It’s been nearly 40 years done. Freddie Williams: Time is for that. I’m going to, I’m going to call Mattel up tomorrow. Casey: Men let them know. I will. Freddie Williams: We gotta just knock it off with Orco. And let that let DC know as well. that’s funny. Yeah, I I’m, I’m, I’m fine with them. I think,there is, I mean, if I watched cause we Kiki and I sometimes we’ll have stuff on, in the background in the studio here. Sometimes we’re listening to our own stuff in our headphones, but then other times we’ll turn on something, like watch it in the background and we were watching some, Some He-Man in the background once or not.It was right before we started doing all this travel at this point. So now it was, you know, [00:52:00] four or five months ago, but, and there was this, so nothing really weird happened with Orco, but there was this, there was, I can’t remember the, the name of the episode, but like he, man. Gets a log thrown at him, a log hits him in the head and it knocks him unconscious.And I wa I actually, I yelled out in the studio. I said, what was pointing at the screen? Like, cause I wanted, I wanted Kiki to make sure she had seen it. Cause he like, she might not have been looking or paying attention right then or something. And I was like, You know, Tim Seeley and I were, and he, so in injustice versus masters of the universe, Superman, the injustice, Superman, who is, you know, equal in strength to the normal Superman, but he’s more Tyron nickel and more evil or just less good.Maybe it’s the right way to say it. He like used his heat vision on, on He-Man and in the script, Tim had written, we’ve never really seen. [00:53:00] He-Man injured before, so we’re not sure exactly what he should look like when this happens. Like, we’re not sure should he blister and peel, like, cause he’s getting hit with the eyes of, you know, sunrays or whatever the hell laser vision heat vision, or is he resistant to it entirely or does he, is he injured?And then immediately he’ll like, these are the conversations we were having. And, I also felt the same way. I had no memory of seeing He-Man injured and here we just saw him. Now he wasn’t visitable. He didn’t have like a gash on his head where it was bleeding, but he did get hit with a log and was just knocked unconscious.And it was, it felt like surreal to me. Cause I’d never knew he could be vulnerable to a log attack. That was a bigger deal than seeing Orco or do it, or SNAR for cringe or anything, you know, kind of mucking up the works. just because I part partially because I just didn’t remember. I didn’t think it was even possible for a log to knock them out.Casey: I love that that is your work discussion. [00:54:00] That is, that is amazing to me. And it makes me so happy that, that that is like a serious conversation. You haven’t worked, like what, what are we going to do about that? Does he, Freddie Williams: does he get hurt? That’s all right. Casey: So Freddie Williams: there was several times about the process of working on human Thundercats and, and, you know, Batman editorials that I would look over at Kiki and say, you know, I can’t believe I’m getting to draw this stuff for a living.It’s it feels totally surreal. And so, you know, it’s like there are long hours involved and sometimes sitting at a desk for that long, you can, you know, your hand hurts or your wrist hurts or your back or neck or whatever, but this. You know, other than stuff like that, which is just like the nature of being a human.there’s really, I mean, it’s like a dream come true that, so I’m I know. And remind myself often how really lucky I am that I get to do this kind of stuff for a [00:55:00] Casey: living. That’s amazing. And I want to get into that in a little bit and about how you take care of yourself and, how you you’re, you’re married.You, you have, somebody else in your life. Then at the end of the day, sometimes she’s like, I don’t want to hear about damn comic. I won’t you buddy. So I want to hear about that a little bit first though. Like, are you excited for the new He-Man? there, there are two new He-Man shows coming out.There’s the Kevin Smith Elm, masters of the universe. And there’s also a more kid friendly, masters of the universe cartoon also on Netflix. And, we actually talked to Amanda divert who was one of the head writers from that show. And, I think that the interest in Humana’s is going to pick up quite a bit.I mean, it it’s, you know, no, no small, thanks to you guys. It’s, you know, been building even more. And, I’m also wondering if maybe that’s kind of what helped get it, [00:56:00] where it is today, where they’re, they’re actively making two new cartoons based on that property. So, are you planning on watching those series when they come out?Freddie Williams: Oh, sure. I will definitely watch the Kevin Smith run one. I haven’t even heard of the other one, to be honest, I don’t pay real close attention to, Like the comic sites or anything that, that talk about the new announcements or anything. So, the, I was, but I was at power con whenever the Kevin Smith thing was announced, and he was walking around, there at power con.And so I got to, I wasn’t in the panel with him, but I heard it as a rumor and then saw him walking around and talking to the press and stuff. So that sounds really cool. And I’m quite interested to see that, Casey: he has a new villain named berserker. Freddie Williams: Yeah, Casey: I’m joking. I just made that up, so, okay. I Freddie Williams: don’t know.Casey: I would have been like, okay. Evan Smith nerd anyway, probably should have gone with cock puncher or cotton knocker. Freddie Williams: Yeah. I would watch all of the, the evening with Kevin Smith’s the three [00:57:00] evening and the, you know, all that stuff. Casey: Darn man. Freddie Williams: Yeah. Yeah. He’s very interesting. I feel like I got to go with him on the journey with his.love for Bruce Willis and then disappointment. We were working with him. It felt very heartbreaking to hear all that stuff. So all of that was, I’m, I’m a fan of listening to Kevin Smith, probably more than most of the films even. but I, you know, still like clerks and, dogma and James had a Bob strike back and, I heard that there’s a new, Jane signed, Bob get old or something that’s going to come out.So I’m sure I’ll see that as Casey: well. Oh, yeah. Yeah. There’s actually a film on prime where he’s like the new, what is it? It’s a game. It’s like a sequel to Jay and silent Bob strike back. I saw a little bit of it the other day, but like, my usual work day starts at 4:00 AM. Yes all the time. I’m able to actually sit down and watch something [00:58:00] without a, a five minute nine-year-old sitting around me.Like, I’m dead, dude. I’m out Freddie Williams: of that. I can totally see that. Yeah. that is really rough getting up at that early, so, Oh yeah. Work life. Say again, my life balance. Casey: We’re work life balance. That gets as a nice segue into that. Like finding how to do what you do and, kind of be cohesive with your significant other with your family.How, how does, how does that happen? What do you do? Freddie Williams: since Kiki and I worked together all the time. And we, we work in chill and hang out together and I just can’t get enough of her to be honest. Like we, worked together in the studio all the time, but we’re kind of on opposite ends of the studio. So we’re not always talking, but we’re still like coworkers in that sense.And then, we traveled together to any conventions and, you know, hopefully those will start up again after the pandemic. you know, if things get [00:59:00] under, under control more, but, But we have, and travel, traveled to a bunch of different countries together and all that. and then whenever we’ve actually had, if I have a night off, I just want to hang out with Kiki and, you know, watch like, sit on a couch and watch a movie, or, you know, go with her to a movie back when people, you know, could Casey: possibly.Freddie Williams: Yeah. Whenever people could move freely to theaters and stuff. So, but really it’s like the balance to me is that Kiki and I work together. So, you know, we don’t, we don’t have children. We do have, 14 nieces and nephews that we see occasionally a Kiki season a little bit more than, than I do. but we, you know, we’re.The balance, everything is off. I mean, as far as the balance of my work versus the rest of my life, you know, Kiki and I were good, but then almost all of my personal and family relationships have totally suffered because of, the amount of time that I’m devoting to the artwork and stuff. So, I don’t, I couldn’t [01:00:00] say there’s much of a balance on that end.as far as like exercise or other interests and stuff, I basically do stretches every morning while I’m making the coffee. That’s about the extent. And I do some exercises while I’m brushing my teeth. So the combination, and then every, throughout the day, I’ll take breaks and stretch and that sort of thing, but that’s really about it.So, I’m not in particularly great shape, but I’m at least kind of limber. and then. I usually don’t see my friends except for maybe once every six months. it’s, it’s not, and I, you know, I’ve made clear, well, occasionally text and that sort of thing. We keep in some contact like that, but man, I it’s just a, all of my like hobbies and interests and passions and career and, you know, making money, everything is just wrapped into comics.So if. You know, I find interest in studying comic book artwork. So it’s like a [01:01:00] hobby to me to pick up sometimes old, sometimes new comic books and try to dissect what makes that comic book page work. and then I find interest in this new rendering technique or this new shadow, attempt and like, attempting this really heavy shadow look or whatever I’m an ex on, on a horror project or something.So that to me is entertaining. And it’s a hobby. So, everything is just kind of wrapped up into that. it’s and then unfortunately all my home, my friends and family relationships have suffered because of it. Casey: Well, it sounds like you married your best friend so that, I mean, you, you have a, you have a really awesome partner to kind of help you navigate all this stuff.Freddie Williams: Yes. That’s a perfect description. And, the first night that, so Kiki and I went to high school together, but we. I was a geek and then like three or four friends. And then she was actually a jock. Like she played, volleyball and basketball [01:02:00] and softball and I mean, she was in ROTC and everything and, but she was kind of a closet geek.So most of her friends didn’t. Weren’t into that kind of stuff. So she read the Lord of the rings and the Hobbit and, and I have never read those. So she’s more of a geek in the fantasy world, but what, what connected us the first, the first time I was like, wow, you’re awesome. Was, So after high school, she was hanging out with some of a group of friends that were also hanging out with my friends.So we just had an overlapping group. And, one night we were talking and I found out that she read elf quest and elf quest was one of the books Casey: that Freddie Williams: penny is amazing. her art style still holds up. Now some of her inking techniques are a little dated. But that’s because she, she drew them in the seventies and eighties.I mean, she inked in the seventies and eighties, but her, her fusion of like American, cartooning and her characterization mixed with Disney mixed with manga all together was revolutionary at the [01:03:00] time. I mean, it was a popular, independent series and stuff. but it still holds up. It’s still looks pretty contemporary even now.And it’s been 30 plus years, which really says something about her art style. but when Kiki and I were talking that night, I had said, you ever heard of elf quest? She was like, yeah, self quest. And I, and she said, yeah, there was a couple of books, at the library that I used to check out. And, one of them was elf quest all the time.And then the book went missing. This is what Kiki was saying. And I started laughing really hard cause I was like, yeah, I’m the one who Casey: stole the book that helped wasn’t book book free. Freddie Williams: The one with the blue cover and cutter is like kneeling. And then like one of the tall high elves is like standing. I forget the names at this point, but I, I, the artwork is what I’m most interested in to be honest.I stole that. I have it. I’m looking at it right now. It’s right on our shelf right in front of my face. And she said, she was like, yeah, they told me someone stole it. You’re the jerk. That’s still that like, and we [01:04:00] like hit it off. I mean, we were, and then there was a bunch of other overlaps as well that she was, had never tried roleplaying games, but it was something that kind of interested her.And then, that’s actually how we started hanging out. We were playing. Vampire the masquerade. And then we played some palladium book stuff, which is like riffs and heroes unlimited and stuff. So, Oh, sorry. What’s that Kiki Casey: you have since paid for the book? Oh, yes. Yeah. Freddie Williams: So, so I have since contacted that library and I purchased that book.I, in fact, So, so yes, so everybody can Casey: kill send email then. Nevermind. Freddie Williams: Yeah. You were in the middle. I heard that piece typing, as you were saying, like, you know, Casey: Kansas city, Freddie Williams: public library, be aware that this young man or this old man now, stole your book. so I actually contacted them cause I had felt guilty and said.what I, what I told them was, yeah, I, moved away, which technically I have. and I found this old library book that I just must’ve never [01:05:00] returned. And I’m wondering if I could just, it didn’t feel right to me, so I’d like to pay for it. And she said, well, you can send it back to us. And I said, no, it’s just really messed up.It’s a terrible condition. I would just feel better if I paid for it. And she said, yeah. And it was like 50 bucks. I know I could have bought a brand new one for much cheaper, but this is the book. This is the book that helped to inspire me and has Kiki’s name written in the back because she had checked it out a bunch of times and I checked it out and stuff.So, this book, the physical item means a lot more than just than just the amazing artwork that’s inside. It’s the actual physical book, you know, I Casey: wonder if they even have the other elf quest books in circulation at that library because, you know, books wear out over time. So I’m wondering if that’s like the lone alphabet book at the library that you paid for.Freddie Williams: Yeah, that could be, I dunno, I, I, the other books that I remember from that time that was in a similar vein was there was a book called Espers or [01:06:00] ESP first that was, Kind of a, it was drawn very realistically at the time that I remember. And it was about these young kids who had been through a government program had been given like Sonic abilities, almost like Firestarter, but you know, not exactly that, but kind of inspired by that.and then they had a bunch of mainstream stuff that was more like X-Men Hulk Spiderman, that kind of stuff. So, but the, and I was attracted more to the artists, you know, it’s more about to me that the art. It’s the, the, the character, I don’t, you know, I don’t gravitate towards Wolverine unless like Jim Lee or Mark Sylvester or lineal, for instance, you are drawing them.And then I’m like, I’m in it all the way, you know? Casey: So we’re, we’re gonna start wrapping it up in a second. I really want to ask you so things are kind of scary right now in the comics. Injury’s starting to get better. Comic shops need to stay open. we’re a big fan of comic stores. We’re a big fan of that mom and pop stores.Do you [01:07:00] have any in particular that you want to shout out and what they exactly mean to you? Why you, why you appreciate them? Freddie Williams: yeah, the, Casey: the one. Freddie Williams: So there’s, there’s two shops. The two shops that I go to here locally in Kansas, one is called elite comics. and that’s an Overland park, Kansas. So that’s when we’re on the Kansas side.And then, there’s another one called pulp fiction comics and games. That’s on the Missouri side, which is closer to my house and that’s actually my primary shop. so. I mean, I don’t, I, when I was much younger, I used to hang out at shops, not, not at either of those, but that’s how I looked at comic book shops was like a place to congregate and sort of, for lack of a better term fellowship with your fellow geeks, you know, You know, just to talk about it and then like message forums kind of replaced a little bit of that.but there’s not the same interaction, you know, person to person interaction. So, but elite comics, they helped to run the big [01:08:00] local comic book convention here, the planet Comicon, and, that’s a big deal. That’s grown. Hugely where we have, you know, CV Soboleski from Marvel comics. And we had Dan video, actually, he was supposed to be at the show that that ended up getting postponed so that the show that got canceled because of the COVID thing will now be rescheduled to August.Assuming it doesn’t get canceled then as well. but they, those shows have attracted really big talent and help to establish a Kansas city is like a. I don’t know, like a city to be reckoned with, with the type of talent that lives here or is attracted here and stuff. Scotty young moved here. Jason, Aaron moved here, as you said.so, that’s a big deal to me is elite comics helping to run the local planet comic con show. That’s huge now. And then, pull fiction comics and games. there was a time where I played some magic, the gathering and would play up there. So I was like, Drawing comic books. And then on [01:09:00] the off chance that I would have a night off, I would go up there and play like an, a booster draft or something.And, they would not say who I was, which was good. Cause it felt would have felt weird if people happen to be in comics and then I was playing against them. It would just be strange. and also if I order like extra books, you know, I always get it through, get them through pulp fiction and stuff.So the guy who runs it, his name is Andy is just a really nice, really funny considerate guy. But, I have once, actually just a couple of months ago, I was up there, just sketching cause I had some sketches to do and I was just chit chatting with him. And, it’s a great PR I mean, comic book play, shops in general are.Great places to find people that even if it’s not a specific comic book that you are aware of, they’re interested in that type of thing. So you can, there’s like a similar energy, and with, with Andy, as soon as I mentioned, elf quest, he, man, he knew so much way [01:10:00] more about specifically the story side of stuff than I did.And it was like getting, I, it just an unexpected, dissertation on the sort of influences that probably led to the windy, the pennies sort of going in the direction that they did with the story. And, I don’t know. It’s just, you know, you don’t always have the time to do that in a comic book shop, but I would, I would, I hate that they’re having such, such troubles along with a lot of other, Stores and not stores, but a lot of other business types in this, in this economy with all the, you know, social distancing and stuff like that.So I hope that, you know, as many of them can, can hold on and stick around as possible. Casey: So, in, in that vein, tell our listeners what they can order Freddie Williams: right now, featuring Casey: Freddie Williams. The second. Oh, okay. Yeah. Coming up that, you, you, you got the Robin thing coming up. Freddie Williams: Yes. man, has that actually come out yet?Cause I, I remember see, I, I had [01:11:00] received, so what we’re talking about for anyone who’s listening, there’s an 80 page. Giant oversize, not large as in, you know, tall or wide, but just thick. Like it’s a a hundred page, special featuring different short stories of Robin in there. And I drew, I think it’s a 10 page story.I can’t remember now, but it’s a 10 Drake 10 drinks. My favorite Robin. I love drawing Robin. but I already had my, my comp copies. So every time that. I do work for DC or IDW or whatever. They’ll send me some free copies of the printed book. I already had received those, but I did that not come out yet. I thought it had physically come out, but maybe it didn’t because of the diamond shutdown.Casey: Yeah. I thought it was, I thought it was on hold because of the diamond shutdown, but Freddie Williams: I could be Casey: completely and totally mistaken. Okay. Well, let’s Freddie Williams: eat whether it’s out or not that the books that I personally have involvement with that I think you should order are. I, there is Batman Ninja, turtles volume three.The hard cover is supposed to come out. or maybe it is currently out. I [01:12:00] believe it’s supposed to come out, this week. So the last week of may, So that has all six issues of Batman Ninja turtles, plus a big sketch section in the back of like a bunch of pencil studies that I did of different characters and stuff.so that gives you what the full story and a hard cover there’s Robin, the 80th anniversary special. So I needed a short story in that, but there’s a lot of really cool stories. I got to see a PDF of the whole book and flip through the comp copy to, you know, I didn’t read every book, but there was a, a great variety of different Robins through his like stories throughout the years of Robbins.let’s see, I’ve done the coverage for a series called a transformers versus a Terminator. so I didn’t draw the interiors, but it’s from IDW and it’s, I did, it’s a four issue mini series and I know issue one has already come out, but then that’s when things got put on hold. So, you know, I think issue two will probably come out within the next month or so.And then, I did the cover for issue a variant cover for a upcoming issue of the Ninja turtles. I don’t know if they’ve announced it, but [01:13:00] I’ll just say it here. Issue. I think issue one Oh five. And then issue one Oh eight. so I’m still involved with the turtles. I love drawing stuff with the turtles.I would, in a Casey: slightly, Freddie Williams: slightly altered reality. if the COVID stuff didn’t happen or whatever, I would have had a much bigger involvement with the turtle stuff. But, you know, instead of going the direction of the, of the crater on stuff right now, I want to do create our own stuff, but I just, we weren’t sure where it fit.And then, you know, this sort of told us which direction to go. And, and then I did a cover for there’s a podcast that is called voyage. To the stars. and they have a, they have a comic book that’s coming out and I did one of the covers for the first issue of that. So, and a few covers for GI Joe.So over at IDW, I think issues eight, nine, 10, 11, 12, there was like five issues in a row that I didn’t cover score. So I’ve got a lot of work that’s floating out there, but most of it right now, that’s about to come out as [01:14:00] a cover work. So for GI Joe, A Terminator or transformers versus the Terminator that podcast cover, which is called a journey to the stars.And then Batman Ninja, turtles volume three, the hard cover. And then Robin, the 80th anniversary one. Casey: Alright, you guys, so go out there, order all that stuff. And, Freddie Williams, we’re going to have to keep our ears to the ground for the temp, the upcoming Tim Seeley project. Freddie Williams: Yes. Yeah. Casey: Because that sounds rad.I can’t wait to hear more about that. if, if, and when you want to come back on the show to talk about it, I’ll make sure that you get a better interviewer because I’m sorry. Whoa, what are you talking Freddie Williams: about? No, this, this was great. I hope I, I hope I didn’t, No go on too long. I have a tendency just to be long winded, but Casey: we love it.We love it. And, I Freddie Williams: mean, Casey: it’s one thing to just talk about the next upcoming project. It’s another to get into process and where you are when you’re [01:15:00] doing stuff. And I really that’s one thing that interests me because I mean, I’m going to read the comics anyway, but actually. Getting the, the behind the scenes and getting to know the creators behind it.That’s that’s the fun part for me. So Freddie Williams the second, man. Thank you again. Freddie Williams: Yeah, my pleasure. And thank you for having me on and you did an excellent job interviewing me. Don’t go put yourself down. Well done. Casey: Thank you very much. Take it easy. And, man, wash your hands. And what are the masks in Alabama right now?The rates are, it went up in two weeks. It went up, over a third. Oh, okay. Yeah. So don’t go to Alabama. He Thompson. Freddie Williams: Okay. Yeah. I mean, and we, we are very careful. We don’t actually leave the house much anyway, but we’re, we have like a, pretty established protocol of how to wipe everything down. Once we do go out and then come back and, and take control of [01:16:00] that stuff.So we definitely wash our hands and we. Are careful with that kind of stuff. So, Casey: and I mean, we, we have two kids, kids are nasty, so we’re making them move on the port right now. So occasionally I’ll pour some water out of, you know, just through the back window. I’ll just with some water. Freddie Williams: Yeah. It makes a puddle on the ground and they can drink from Casey: that from a snack packer to they’re good.Freddy, take it easy, man. Freddie Williams: Thanks. Great talking to you. Thanks. Casey: Save. Bye. All. Alright, Freddie Williams: take care.
Today we are joined by Tom Brevoort, the Executive Editor and Senior Vice President of Marvel comics! We talk about everything from his time at Marvel, to Mile Morales, to event comics, to variant covers! We also spend a good amount of time talking about Star Blazers!Find Tom online:https://twitter.com/TomBrevoort “Drinks and Comics with Spoiler Country!”https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC25ZJLg6vL4jjRgC1ebshCA Did you know we have a YouTube channel?https://youtube.com/channel/UCstl1UHQVUC85DrCagF-wuQ Follow us on Social Media:http://facebook.com/spoilercountry/http://twitter.com/spoiler_countryhttp://instagram.com/spoilercountry/ Kenric:http://twitter.com/XKenricX John:http://twitter.com/y2clhttp://instagram.com/y2cl/http://y2cl.nethttp://eynesanthology.com Casey:https://twitter.com/robotseatguitarhttps://thecomicjam.com/ Buy John’s Comics!http://y2cl.net/the-store/ Support us on Patreon:http://patreon.com/spoilercountry Interview scheduled by Jeffery Haashttps://twitter.com/jhaasinterviews Theme music by Good Co Music:https://www.goodcomusic.com/ Transcript Tom Brevoort InterviewKenric: [00:00:00] join the call to this point. The verse a welcome back to our country. I’m kinda creaking. That is mr Horsley and today on the show.Well, Johnny, this one is. Well, this one’s going to be really interestingJohn: I agree.Kenric: because we have somebody from one of the big two that is a serious decision maker within the company at Marvel comics.John: And been there for awhile.Kenric: 30 years.John: It’s a long time. It was ComicKenric: 30 years. Yup. Executive editor, SVP, senior vice president. That’s what that stands for. Marvel comics. Tom report.John: Yeah, this was, uh, This is another one where I was on it with you. I said a couple things towards the end of it, but most of the time I was just listening because you’d ask a question, then he would just give this long with an answer that just took you to. I mean, you asked about Starbucks. Isn’t that changed the whole [00:01:00] thing.Kenric: well, it wasn’t. I wouldn’t say long winded, it’s just that we asked specific questions that, that needed more explanation. And he did a wonderful job of interweaving things. If you guys are curious about, um, Brian Michael Bendis leaving and going to D C he answers that if you want to know about Heather’s and ptosis, um.2017 issues with the commerce gate folks. He answers that. Uh, if you are want to know about Spiderman and miles Morales and fantastic for we go through it all, baby. It was awesome.John: And if want to all about star blazers, we talked about that too.Kenric: Yeah, we did. I love, I’m a huge star blazers nerd from a long time ago. Um, and he is as well. And we connected on star blazers because we both just love it. I mean, he loved it so much. He went and saw opening day for the live action film in Japan. So[00:02:00] John: That is nuts. I mean, could you imagine finding Japan to see a movie opening? Dave is so cool.Kenric: Yeah. Right. I think it’s cool that he’s like,John: fun.Kenric: yeah, right. I think it’s cool that he went there to see it and that he loves the movie. You know that that’s, he’s great with that movie, which I liked the movie and a lot of people that I know that are star blazers, Fran, don’t like that movie.John: You gotta, you gotta take her for it. I actually remember when that movie was coming out, we were at one of my old houses. Like I was renting it years and years ago you came over and he like showed me the trailer for it on your phone. And IKenric: Yeah. Oh, really?John: like, what is this thing? Like it’s star It’s the, almost at the ship yard. I mean, you were so excited. I’m like, I have no idea what the hell this is mainly. do you not know started blade? This is I’m like, I just don’t. I’m sorry.Kenric: yeah. Well, you were weed. I was watching it in 1979 and you weren’t even born, so,Oh yeah.John: looked it up, I didn’t know what it was. I just didn’t know it by name,Kenric: Yeah. You can’t grow up in Japan or in America [00:03:00] and not at least see pictures of the spaceship Yamamoto or in America it would be the Argo or,John: if you’re in the nerd, the nerd world and I, and I am, I was.Kenric: yeah, yeah. So it was a lot of fun. But once you guys sit back, get a drink, and maybe, um. Listen to the styling sounds of Tom Braveheart. Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: All right guys. Welcome back. Today on the show, we’re super excited because, well, if you’re like I am, and you grew up reading Marvel and maybe, you were a fantastic four fan or an X-Men fan, or you just grew up the Marvel way is what I like to say, then you’re going to really love talking with, with Tom here, because Tom Bridgeport, the Marvel senior VP and executive editor.Thank you so much for coming on.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Sure. My pleasure. Happy to be here. [00:04:00]Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Happy to have you here cause uh, this is exciting how long you’ve been working at Marvel now.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: I have been at Marvel for in excess of 30 years,Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Wow.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: decades.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: So you were at Marvel, I was 15 when you started.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Okay.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: was I reading?Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: about your age there. I could do that math.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah. Not too hard. Not too hard. What was I reading at the age of 15? A lot of X-Men. Uh, I believe the, we justTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: were reading, you’re reading Todd Spiderman.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yup. Let us, yep. McFarland. Spiderman was, was, uh, well, he was just getting done with the amazing Spiderman and doing Spiderman.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah. He had just, he would still have been on amazing Spiderman when I startedKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah, yeah. That was the first,Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: the adjective was Spiderman book did not exist yet.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: yeah. That was the first big [00:05:00] book that I bought that my, actually, my dad and my mom bought it for me without me telling me. They went to Cliff’s comic world in an East Bremerton, and they bought Spiderman number 300 and it was. Probably six months to a year after it came out and they bought it for like $30 which I remember when, I remember when they bought it, I was like, Oh my God, I can’t believe you guys spent money on a comic book for me.You know what I mean?Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: I kept, I can’t believe it was that expensive that soon thereafterKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah. It was re, but it stayedTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: forgotten that.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: yeah, cause we’ll fit him was big. You know, it was, it was a big deal when he, when he showed up plus. You know, the older I’ve gotten, I, I still try to collect comic books, you know what I mean? But it’s hard to keep up with all the titles,Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: sure, sure.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: many. And like I was reading Batman for a while, I gave up.There’s so many Batman titles. It’s, it’s impossible. You know, I want a nice clean [00:06:00] story arc. And a. But for the longest, when I, when I got into my teenage years, and then that whole speculative market really took off there for a while, especially in the late eighties early ninetiesTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: sure, yep.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: and I was like, Oh, I’m going to buy this and, and it’s going to be worth all this money.And then as you get older, you realize, well, that was just a, that’s a pipe dream, you know what I mean? Unless you’re getting Spiderman, you know, amazing Spiderman, number one, or if you know action comics, number one, you’re not really getting anything that’s going to pay for anything else.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Well. Yeah, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re definitely not, you know, you’re not buying it. You’re not, you’re not picking up like house buying moneyKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: right. But you know, in my youth, I hadTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: that, that, uh, you know, that amazing 300, uh, if you probably could still get the 30 bucks for it.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Right. Well, any delusions of grandeur as aTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: depreciated any in the 30 years since then.And you might even be able to score a couple more depending on how many copies might happen to be floating [00:07:00] around the market. Right this second.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: that book is expensive now. Have you seen it?Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Uh, what it’s, what it’s going forward. No, I don’t keep any track of any of thatKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: for you. I stopped.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: I paid, I paid cover price, so I’ve got one, it’s in a box somewhere. Uh, you know, I’m, I’m good.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: That’s good. Oh, well, I. W like when I was a teenager, early twenties, then it was all about, Oh, I want to, I want to try to speculate, speculate what, you know, it’s just so dumb now. I just want to get the books that I’ve always wanted in my life. Like I really wanted a first appearance, a Punisher, you know, I really wanted a first appearance of black cat, you know, so I went out and I get those books, and then I still read, uh, every month, uh, like I’m reading Savage of injures.I love that. I love that arc. I w I wish. Yeah, that’s a great book. So executive editor, I’m feeling like I’m just telling you about myself and what I love, but executiveTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: right. I like, I like [00:08:00] hearing thoseKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Oh, good, good.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: I particularly like the part where you’re buying books that we’re putting out, so I could listen to that all day.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: What does the executive editor at Marvel comics do.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Well, uh, you know, directly in a given month, and I’m talking about an ordinary month. I’m not talking about like the past two months, but for an ordinary, we have a functioning society month in any given month, um, you know, hands on putting out probably around a dozen. Comic books along with my, you know, underlying editors, my associate editor and my assistant editor and I am overseeing the activities of a big chunk of other editors who are doing the same thing in their various areas.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: That’s interesting. I always wonder because you see executive editor and I’m like, what? Because then you have all these other editors, so you’re basically, you have [00:09:00] your books that you edit, but then you are overseeing all the other editors going on what they’re doing.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah, a bunch of other editors and, you know, I’m involved in whatever conversations about planning and, and so forth. It’s a, it’s, it’s a broad, uh, you know, it’s a broad set of responsibilities.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah. It sounds like it’d be a lot of fun though, because I know from reading up on you, your first comic love was fantastic for one 77 andTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: my first real MarvelKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: yeah. What does that book mean to you now?Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Um, well, uh, you know, obviously I’ve got my original copy. I’ve got another copy on this spinner rack over here. Um, you know, the, the individual issue. I mean, I bought, I got three of them at once, one 77, one 78, one 79. Um, you know, I, in that particular day. Um, and, and, you know, those are good comics.I got, I’ve got good memories of those and whatnot, but, uh, you know, so fantastic [00:10:00] for as a title, as a series means a lot to me. More so even than just those individual books.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: did it. I would assume that you knew when they canceled. Fantastic for a few years ago that it was coming back and it’s not going to take 20 years for it to come back. It took what, three years?Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: It was about, yeah, something likeKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah, but did it break your heart a little bit to have it be shelved for that even for those three years.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: um, uh, a little bit, but if I’m honest about it and I feel the same thing like I was, I was the outgoing editor. I was the last editor. On Thor, uh, when Thor ended and then did not come back at the time of, of, uh, new Avengers and the captain America relaunch and the iron man relaunch and didn’t come back for a couple of years until eventually Joe’s Krasinski and Olivia pellet brought it back.Um, and that time of way, that time of not having a Thor [00:11:00] book, Thor kind of went from being a character in a thing that. People were only maybe so, so interested in even when it was done really well to suddenly something that felt like special and new and cool again, I think fantastic. Four was the same kind of thing, like, you know, when the book was around, um.You know, it was a difficult book to get people to jump onto because it had been there forever. People felt like they knew what it was about. It wasn’t their, their, their bag. It was, you know, a book with a lot of history behind whatever the, whatever the case may be. It wasn’t a title that it was really easy to electrify the audience on on a regular basis.Don’t matter. Who was doing it, no matter how good it was, you’d have ups and downs, but even even creative teams that you would think, man, that’s gonna be a slam dunk home run. No question over the top sales Bonanza, you’d only get kind of middling results [00:12:00] on. And as soon as it went away, everybody on earth went, I want it now.I want it back. Where is it? So, so the same sort of thing with Thor. Um. You know, the, the, the fact that it’s not there actually makes people appreciate it and, and, and kind of want it. So when you do eventually bring it back, you know, it’s got a, it’s, it’s, it’s got a reception waiting for it with open arms.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah, it was. Cause I always wondered how that, because when it came back, everybody got real excited for the fantastic four coming back. And I remember going into my LCS and I missed the cutoff to order that first book. You know? And I was like, okay, well, he’s like, he’s like, man, I can order your reprint if they reprint and I can get you and I can put you on the list for number two.And I was like, Oh, you gotta be kidding. I really miss that. And he’s like, Oh yeah, he’s like it. As soon as it was announced, people came in and [00:13:00] then I ordered all the ones that I thought and he goes, but I did order more for the shelf. And then I came in to get for the shelf and I, you know, I have to work.So I CA I came in after work and it was already gone. It was already got first day gone.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah. Well, I’m, I’m again, I’m sorry. I’m sorry for yourKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: That’s okay. Luckily I can, I can, you guys have a lot of stuff online so I can go there and do a Marvel Marvel unlimited.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: yeah. Marvel unlimited.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yup. So I’m already subscribed to that so I can read it, so I’m okay. But, you know, it’s always nice to have that tactile feel in your hand. I, I, I love the digital stuff for the, for the, uh.You know, for the convenience of it, you know, bring up my, my, I bring up my iPad or my, you know, my tablet and open up my app and go. But man, that feeling of it, there’s nothing like getting an old comic from the seventies and breaking it open and it just smells like the seventies.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yup. [00:14:00] Yup. It’s that, uh, it’s that decaying paper.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Who, um, who was the writer behind. The Thor series with Jane as Thor, that was, um, Jason, Jason, Aaron, and when he brought that idea over to you guys, what was your thought process? Were you like, this is great, and just went with it? Or was there some, some discussion on it? Because I know online there was a lot of people that were up in arms about it.I thought it was a brilliant. Take on Thor and how to represent Thor in different ways. Uh, I, I loved it. I kind of wish they’d do more of it.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Well. Well, uh, well, thank you. I mean, uh, I think, uh, you know, Jason did as much of it as he wanted to do. Um, you know, and, and so, you know, there’s discussion about just about anything when it comes down to a story that we’re doing, but, you know, it was very much, we, we do two or three times a year, and again, this is in a normal year, not in a.[00:15:00] Strange pandemic year, which is throwing all the rules out, but you know, in a normal year, two or three times a year, we have editorial summits where we bring in a bunch of our key creators and all the editors, and we sit down for two or three days. And we talk about what everybody’s cooking up in their books, so as to be able to both know what’s going on and all the other titles, and to be able to bounce ideas back and forth and synergize, or, you know, take a look at our publishing plan and see what else we might need, or if we have too much of something.All of these kinds of things. Um, and so, so, you know, whatever year that happened to be, you know, Jason was already writing for, he’d been writing Thor for. I think at that point, at least a year and a half, two years. Um, and he came in and said, okay, I want to do this story where, and some of it was an outgrowth of, he was going to be writing, uh, original sin, the, the, the, the [00:16:00] event series.And in the course of original sin. Uh, you know, all the various characters, uh, found things, uh, that, that, uh, you know, sent them all, all, uh, uh, in different directions and, and, and all, uh, you know, a, a skew. Uh, and the thing that was going to happen to the Thor that Jason. Came up with is he was gonna like not be able to pick his hammer up anymore.And so from that, Jason came in and kind of pitched this idea, I’m going to have a, a, a new Thor, and you know, she’s going to come and she’s going to pick up the hammer. And for a while we’re going to just. Play with our identity where nobody’s going to know who it is, and there’ll be a bunch of different characters in the book.It could be, and maybe it’ll be raw. It’s Roz Solomon, or maybe it’s Jane Foster, or maybe it’s a for, maybe it’s, he had a whole list of people. He always knew who it was going to be. Um, but, you know, he, he laid this idea out and basically, you know, while we talked about it, and, you [00:17:00] know, in that conversation for however long it was, you know, 10 minutes or, or whatnot, that was pretty much it.Uh, and then, you know, he went and did it and, and executed it. Uh, and, uh, you know, people liked it. Some people liked it. It certainly sold well for all the people that got ripped out of shape about it or whatever. Um. And, and, uh, you know, it, it did well, and you know, now by all accounts, they’re going to be using elements of it in the next floor movie.So it worked out all right.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah, I thought it was, I don’t know. I thought Jason did a great job on it. It made, it was a lot of fun to read. And that’s what comic books are for, right? To have fun and to read. And it’s sometimes some will make you think, but most of them just make you feel this was, this was a lot of fun. I mean, that’s the best ones do anyways.So are you, are you a star blazers fan?Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yes. Yes, [00:18:00] I am. You’re the first person I wanted to use to ask me about that in a longKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Oh, good. ITom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: you go. That’s my, that’s my history right there.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: it. I love it. ITom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: you’re getting to the main line now.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: I love star blazers. I grew up, uh, when I was in, so this would have been, what, 1979 I think it is when it first came out on American television.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Debuted in 79 yes. September of 79Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yup. I was in school. I would be, it was on channel 11 KSBW at 7:00 AM my bus would show up at seven 35. But I would have to watch all of that. Siri, all of the episode, I would not, and then I would run to the bus stop. Now the bus stop luckily was only not even a quarter mile away. You know what I mean? It was close, but I would run to the bus stop, but I missed the bus so many times.My mom would have to drive me to school. [00:19:00] School, and she’d get so mad at me because he’s watching that stupid cartoon, but it’s like you don’t understand, mom. This cartoon is amazing. Have you heard the theme song? I’d be on the back of the bus, just belting out that theme song as loud as I could, and it has stuck with me my whole.Life that when I go back, it got me into Japanese animation. It got me into cartoons. It’s probably my first love as a kid. That’s probably my first actual weird, geeky love that I had over. Everything else was star blazers and you know, it was for me, it wasn’t Yamamoto because I watched it on American television first.It was the Argo, you know.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Right,Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: And it was the wave motion gun, and to see that wave motion gun go, and then the sound and everything. Oh my gosh, I loved it.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yep. Yep. Well, I, I, uh, yeah, I was a little older and I didn’t really start to watch it until like 1982. [00:20:00] Uh, my, my family, I lived, I grew up in New York. Uh, and in New York, uh, you know, it played, you know, much less as it did in, in your area. It played in the morning, but like at six 30 in the morning. So I never, I never really saw it.And at that time, like the year before, battle of the planets had come out. And I was a big battle of the planets fan and, and that show aired at like four 30 in the afternoon. So all that stuff was better. Uh, for a while. My younger brother was, was watching it at like six 30 in the morning, and I’d see like two seconds over it or whatnot as I went out the door.And. Art style wise compared to the, the work in, in the battle of the planets, the catcher amount of work, it looked, it just looked crude or to be, it looked, it was more stylized. It looked weirder. It didn’t appeal to me. Um, so my family in at the end of 1981, uh, my [00:21:00] dad, uh, my family relocated to Delaware.My dad was transferred in his job and we moved to Delaware. And in Delaware. Star blazers had been like a perennial show, uh, on, on TV 29, uh, you know, for forever. Uh, and it was just on in the afternoons, roundabout, typically around about three 30. Uh, give or take. Uh, and so eventually, you know, I would see bits and pieces every once in a while and go, this is a weird thing.I don’t, I don’t like this. I don’t want to watch this. Uh, and so there would just be, there was just one day eventually where as I was sitting there after, after, uh, you know, school or whatnot, uh, flip it around because I was, you know, I would have been a, like a young high school kid, I would have been in like.Ninth grade. Uh, so I w I, yeah, but so I wasn’t driving yet. I was stuck at my house and my house was in like a new development that was, that had just been built up. So there was [00:22:00] like nothing around. You couldn’t go anywhere. So until I became. You know, mobile, until I could drive a couple of years later, pretty much, you know, in a, in a, an afterschool capacity until like my parents were around to take me somewhere.If there was something to do, I was there at the house, and so I would end up watching the most ridiculous stuff. Um, and, and so, you know, there were, there was one day where I ended up watching. Most of an episode. And by that I mean I, you know, I, I would flip around and I would catch a bit of the episode and either we would get to a commercial and I would flip away or, or we’d get to some point that would lose my attention and I would flip away.But I ended up watching most of this episode and I came back the next day. The next day. Uh, and I started watching it regularly, and then it, and then it just like became a thing. And I, you know, [00:23:00] not only did I, I watched it all, I badgered my, my, my family to, to get, you know, in those days, it was a much bigger deal.Uh, a video recorder, a big, big old Betamax.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: yup. We hadTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: and I, and I got a Betamax. Yep. And I, I, you know, I taped them all. Uh, and I, I got connected to, you know, what was in those days, uh, you know, the very early days of what became anime fandom. Uh, cause I found out that, you know, I, I would digging about like, what’s, what, what’s the deal with this show?What is this? And I discovered that there was more of it that I hadn’t seen that hadn’t been brought over. And so.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: season.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: The third season and the films and whatnot.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah. Farewell. The spaceship Yamamoto. What I found out about that, I flip a lid man, because I worked in a video store in 95 and I could order whatever I wanted because I was the manager of the store, so I went into the [00:24:00] catalog and there it was all three seasons of star blazers in its original form, subtitled, and then a farewell to spaceship Yamamoto.And then I watched that. I watched it straight through and you know, in Japanese and wow, what a different story.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: yup, yup. Um, well, I’ve, again, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve watched it all. I, I, I saw it all. Um, you know, I, I’ve got copies of it all at this point. Um, and over at my, my, uh, my blog page, the Tom brief work.com page for a while. I’m done now, but I, I see realized, I, I did sort of a retrospective on every episode of that show,Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: I’m gonna have to go back and read it because, yeah.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: over there and, and, and, and go through that stuff. But I also, like, I’m a, I’m a big enough fan. Like I met my wife through, uh, you know, star blazers and anime fandom.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Oh, that’s cool.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Um, [00:25:00] and, and my first, I’ve been to Japan like twice, uh, and the first time I went to Japan in 2010, I went to see the live action Yamada movie.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Oh w I was going to ask you about it. What’d you think?Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Aye. Aye. Aye. I loved it. I know that there are people that have their cripples with it and all of those triples are fine and correct, but they’re all out of their mind because it’s great.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: it’s a live action star places movie. Get out of here. I love it. I was so excited when I saw the preview.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yep. Yep. I saw that opening day in Japan in 2010.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: so jealous right now. You have no idea.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: and literally, like, and you know, this is, this is very reflective of how, uh, you know, I, and my family do stupid things. Uh, you know, we pretty much, you know, we flew to Japan on a Monday, which meant we landed [00:26:00] on Tuesday.Uh, the film opened on a Wednesday, saw the film on Wednesday, you know, went around, looked at stuff, uh, did a second day on Thursday where we went around and looked at stuff, saw the film a second time, flew back on Friday. So the, the sum, the sum total of time I was in Japan was maybe two days. I flew. Uh, you know, uh, it’s a, it’s a long ass flight.Um, I flew it basically to watch a movie twice.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: That’s awesome, but your kids probably love that.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah. It was, it was not as exciting for them because. They had no, you know, it didn’t have the same connection to the source material or anything, but you know, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a trip. It’s a thing they remember.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah. Did you watch the the 2199 the basic remake?Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Oh yeah,Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: How [00:27:00] was that? I haven’t had a chance to watch it. I didn’t even know what came out causeTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: it. Uh,Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: justTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: they just, yeah, they just, I don’t know if they still have it, but they just, they just ran it in English on a, I think it was crunchy roll. Uh, if I’m not, I’m not mistaken. Like they’ve got it and they had it as dubbed and it’s, it’s all right. Um, I actually had, I’ve been back to Japan one more time since then, a couple of years ago for a Marvel event.And one of the things we ended up doing, and when I was out there, is I ended up having dinner with a bunch of people, some of whom were connected to the animation industry, and I had a conversation with them about. The new show and the old show. And, you know, one of the things I kind of posited there, uh, and they, they, they sort of, you know, at least the people in this party sort of, you know, confirm this to some degree is like the new show.Is, I mean, it’s a much, it’s a much [00:28:00] more lavish production. Um, you know, it, it does not look as crude obviously. Um, you don’t see, you don’t, you can’t see the, the, the, the, the cigarette droppings on the cells, uh, anymore in the new show. But for me, it’s also a little bit bloodless. Uh, and by which I mean, um, you know, the, the premise of that show is absurd.It’s bananas. You know, you’re, you’re buying going in is we’re going to take a world war II era battleship and literallyKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Outfit. IfTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: it into a spaceship and fly across space and, and do this stuff. AndKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: days, they’re going to, is Ken Darren back?Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: yes, yes, yes. And, and, and, you know. It’s world war II and outer space. And that’s the metaphor. And, and, uh, you know, for, for a modern audience with these modern, uh, creators, they kept trying to [00:29:00] do stuff to make that more plausible.And. I think that that wasn’t necessarily a bad choice, but the thing that it did for me is, you know, any episode of star blazers from the original show, they would blow the heck out of that ship on an episode to episode basis. You know, it would be on fire in space. And that doesn’t make a bit of sense.But it looked greatKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Visually. It’s stunning.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yes. And in the, in the new show, you know, they realized that like. That doesn’t work. So they’re, they’re a lot more precious with it. They don’t ding it up that much, and now it’s got, you know, star Trek style shields, so it can, and, and like, that all makes sense.It’s much more plausible, but it’s also kind of like you’re, you’re, you’re at the point where you’re at worrying about stuff like that. You gotta start to stare at it and go. It’s a, [00:30:00] it’s a battleship in space, dude. Like, like, you know, there’s, there’s, there’s no amount of verisimilitude you can, you can build up to really make that.Go,Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: yeah,Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: know, it’s, it’s, it’s fantasy and that’s, there’s nothing wrong with that.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: to suspend thatTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: but that, that I even said, I thought the, the, the, the, the, the team that dubbed it and brought it over did a very nice job. Uh, and, and in, in remaking it, like there is some episodes that are, that are virtually shot to shot remakes and put them, they also.You know, they did diverged and they do their own thing and go their own path and do different, different things. And yeah, a lot of that stuff I like, some of it I’m not as crazy about, I still prefer the original show, but it’s also like, that was the original show. That was the show I watched. So it’s hard to, you’re gonna have a hard time convincing me that the remake is going to be better.Um, yeah. I may just [00:31:00] not be,Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Well, it’s not going to have that feeling. Well, and there’s, there’s gotta be a difference too, because the people. Who created that first show, they went through world war II. There was a pressure on top of them too, too. It’s kind of like the people who created Godzilla the first time, you know?It’s aTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: yes. That’s exactly right. And that is exactly the conversation that I had.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah. Oh, really?Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: you know, yeah. That, that, that, that the, the difference to me, cause one of the, one of the tonal problems for me is in the new show, nobody feels particularly worried. About the situation, like they’re all on the mission and everybody’s committed to it and so forth, but they seem much more lighthearted about it.And I, you know, the original show, like these people are. They’re under complete stress, like everything is at stake at every moment, and there’s not, you know, it is life or death. You know, I, in the simplest of situations, and it’s [00:32:00] the difference between the generation that lived through world war II at the aftermath of world war II in the aftermath of the atomic bombings and, and the rebuilding of Japan and the generation after that who lived in.A repaired and very nice, you know, put together more technologically advanced Japan of today. Um, you know, so, so, so, you know, just the sensibility of it is, is different. Uh, and that specifically was the thing that I ended up chatting with, uh, with, with the animators over there like that, that to me was the w was the real difference between the, the, the approach to the two shows.I could appreciate, you know, the greater. Certainly the, the, the, the, you know, the, the, the more modern, uh, and, and prettier, uh, animation style and, and so forth. But, you know, I, I, I, I, I missed the, the, the guts of the original [00:33:00] show.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah. You know, I look back, I think Derek Wildstar is, is. One of the great is for that era and everything that was going on. When you, when you go to, to, uh, quote unquote heroes, I, the way they wrote him, the way they portrayed him, you such a broken hero, you know what I mean?Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Sure. Yeah, forKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: I can’t think of any other cartoon or, you know, doing that, that type of work during that timeframe.And really it wouldn’t be until the nineties that you would have anything that would even come close to the drama and doing that serialized storytelling like that. I mean, I, they like broke the mold on it.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah. Well, I mean, you could, you would get other, other Japanese shows that would come over like a lot of people, a whole other generation. Uh, yeah, the generation of the after star blazers is the Robotech generation. Uh, and, you know, I, I, I liked Robotech well [00:34:00] enough. I watched, I watched the original Macross in, you know, when it was airing in Japan, you know, now they would send, I had by that point, linked up with enoughKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Is that the public I’m crisis.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Fandom that, you know, you would trade tapes and get episodes as, as they went. And so that was another like, you know, dramatic serialized show. I don’t like, I don’t like the Robotech, uh, translation as well. I don’t like as much what they, what they did with those shows, but the next generation, you know, it completely worked for them.But yeah, you really kind of have to get to the, to the nineties before. Uh, you know, American shows started to do the same kinds of things.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: was just weird because I’m like, at that time, I’m six years old, you know? And I’m watching this show and it’s literally affecting me, and it really came down to the, sorry, excuse me, the, uh, character writing. [00:35:00] Like Derrick’s relationship with the captain was stupendous. You know, it was broken, it was stressful, but then you could feel the bond the whole time.It was, I don’t know, greatlyTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: It’s a, it’s a, it’s a great show. It’s kind of a shame that it’s not easily available today.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah. Well, I knew Disney in the nineties had the rights to do a live action. I don’t know if they still do, but they did. And then I read that they did. Anyways, I should say that I read that they at one time had the rights to do it, and I really wish.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: There was a, there was a know there was a point. I mean, it still gets talked about that there’ll be a movie. Um, there was a script done in the nineties. I’ve read that script. That script was not good.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Right? Wasn’t ready for prime time.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: It was, yeah, it was, it was not, it was not, it had one or two good things about it, but it was not good.And it was not really the show. It was, [00:36:00] you know, they took a couple of elements from the showKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: wave motionTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: it up differently and kind of, I mean, one of the, one of the, one of the problems was legally because of all the different copyright holders in different, uh, countries, they, they couldn’t. No, you couldn’t do the ship looking like that. So they have a wave motion gun in that movie, but it’s not in the front of the ship. It’s kind of up on the deck.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: I kind of snapped. Nope, don’t want it. Don’t want it next.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: When youTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: But that’s all right.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: when, when you think about a live action movie, Hollywood style coming out, who do you see playing? Do you? Do I, cause I, like at one point I cast did the whole movie, you know, and the only one that I can can remember that I feel like would still be amazing is Jeremy irons as desk deadlock.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: sure. I can see[00:37:00] Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: You know what I mean? I mean, he looks like him. His mannerisms are the same based on, you know, what you’re from, from what you see on in the movies. I always think of him in a diehard is that diary three that he’s in. And, uh, I always think of that and I’m like, Oh my God. He’d be a perfect desk clock.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah, I’ve never, I’ve never thought about casting it, and honestly, I kind of don’t worry about it, you know? I. I saw the Japanese live action movie. That’s my live action movie. If they do one and it’s good, I’ll be happy. If they do one and it stinks, I’ll still have that. If they’d never do one, I’ll still have that.So I might like, I’m, I’m covered. Um, at this point I’m, I’m, I’m good. I feel like I got my, I got my money’s worth. I got the thing I wanted. Uh, you know, I, I’m, I’m, I’m satisfied. Um, you know, again, if they, if they do one, I’ll go see it. You know, IKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Well, yeah, me too. [00:38:00] I’ll beTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: and I will hope that it’s, yeah, I’ll hope that it’s, I’ll hope that it’s great.Um, but, uh, you know, my, my, my need for it to be that just, it’s just not there anymore.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: yeah. No, I get that. I get that. Had, did you read the comic book?Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: I, I, I did, I read the first. Of the two comico series. Um, you know, that was, it was not, it was not the greatest adaptation in the world. Um, but I did read it back in the day and I was aware of the second one. Um, and then later in the nineties, they did the, the, the, the nineties comic. Uh, and that was, that was a lot better.And, and some good people worked on that. Notably Tim L dread, who still runs the, the, the main star blazers, uh, Yamato fan page.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah. How, when you guys talk about doing crossovers and doing the huge events like the [00:39:00] fall, the mutans and all those types of events. What goes? How does that process start? Is it like a single idea that maybe you or, or, or somebody else has and says, okay, how do we tie this in? Or, because I’ve always been curious on thisTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Well, I think, I mean, there’s no one size fits all answer typically at any given any given year in that sort of spring, summer area, we’re going to want to do a big story, and typically those big stories grow out of things. That are going on in the individual titles. So, you know, typically, you know, we’re not just working on whatever the, the big story is now.We kind of have a sense of what the next one, maybe even the next two are likely going to be. And that can change and shift as we, as we go. And as, as stories develop. Um, but so it really comes down to come at, you know, somebody having an idea. For that kind of story [00:40:00] because you know, we know there’s going to be a desire for it and indeed for it that you know people in the, as we talk about it, respond to and get excited about.Um, you know, and that’s, that’s, that’s really the, the, the crux of it. Um, you know, typically, you know, not universally, but as universally as we can make it, um, you know, those, those events stories are, are, are opt in by choice. You know, we try not to force people to do tie-ins or things. Um, because you don’t really get great comics if you’re making people.Uh, connect, people tie in because they, they want to tie in either because they’re excited about something in the story or what the story can do for them, or they’re excited about the idea of being able to put more eyeballs onto the project that they’re working on and maybe, you know, capturing some of that audience or, or, or what have you.Um, but it tends to be as, as much as we can make it a volunteer operation, so, so we’re not having to [00:41:00] really. Twist people’s arms. It doesn’t mean that sometimes that doesn’t happen at certainly doesn’t mean that sometimes there are disagreements between the editor on a given book and the and the, the the creative team on a book as to whether or not they should be tying in.Because what may make more waste may make sense. Commercially. It may make sense creatively, may not always line up perfectly. So I don’t want to make the sound completely utopian, but generally speaking. You know, we try to do this on a volunteer basis. Um, and, and then again, it’s really about like, you know, who’s got the, who’s got a story that we think could, could, uh, you know, could do this.And again, what, what area, what each happened we scratch, what kind of thing have we not done? What’s in the site, guys that had given a moment? What kind of things should we be talking about through the metaphor of our characters? And, and, uh, you know, how does that all. How, how does that all then, you know, map out and play out.I think typically somebody is the person [00:42:00] that’s putting that story together and writing it and they do an outline and they work with their editor to refine that outline and then you know, some kind of a basic beat sheeter or presses is sent around to the other editors and the other creative teams going, here’s the event, here’s how the story works, here’s how your tie ins can work.You use a couple of different ways. You might be able to do tie in stories or stuff we haven’t thought of yet. And then all the editors talk about it with their creative teams and they come back with ideas and say, Hey, we want to do this Daredevil story as a, as a part of this, and we think it’s this, and could we do this?And, you know, you try to figure out whether or not what they want to do can connect your dovetail into what’s going on in the, in the main, main thing. And, uh, you know, so there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of block and tackle involved. Um. But it’s, it’s, it’s all relatively harmonious.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: do you ever have somebody like a Donnie Cates come up and just have such a great idea and such a cool thing to do [00:43:00] that even though it kind of messes with what’s going on and what the idea of what’s going to happen to get to this end game? Um, do you guys have to go back in and say, we really want to incorporate this because if we don’t do it now, it might not make as much sense or be as cool later on.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Um, Oh, sure. We’ve had things, you know, we’ve changed, not necessarily in mid story, like what’s a story is started. We’re, we’re pretty much on the tracks, but in terms of our planning, you know, most famously, uh, the best example of this that goes back before Donny, um, a little bit was that, you know, years ago.Uh, we did house of them on the year after house of them, uh, was going to be what ended up being world war halt.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Oh,Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Um, and we, we had, uh, we had a retreat. We went to this retreat and, and for like a day or two, all the people involved were talking about this whole idea. And it wasn’t just where we’re Hawk, it was also the planet Hulk [00:44:00] story.That that set it up. The Hulk would, yeah. The Avengers were going to shoot the Hulk into space. He was going to end up with this planet and go from like slave to gladiator to, to, to rebel, to King. And then he was going to come back with all of this guys and fight all the heroes on earth. And we just, we, we spent two days and we could not make it work.And everybody was really getting frustrated and also a little bit. Packed because you know, Oh, this is a thing we’re going to do. And so the night of the second day, Mark Miller and Brian Bendis went out. You know, they were, they were in the same hotel, uh, and they, they started talking over dinner or drinks or whatnot.And, you know, Mark started talking about, well, you know, the kind of story thing I want to do is, you know, this thing, we’re in New York and there’s these arms, uh, you know, guys everywhere, you know, and all the train stations and all the major three ways because it’s after nine 11 and there’s all this heightened security.And if you had superheroes, you’d be dealing with [00:45:00] all this stuff. And they bounced stuff around for that night and came in the next day and had the basic idea for what in the room grew into civil war. And so we ended up pushing back the world war Hulk story, you know, by like, you know, 10 months a year.Uh, but that was good because that gave the Hulk part of the story, the planet hall part of the story, the time it needed to do the Hulk is going to be shot off into space, and he’s going to end up on this planet and he’s going to go from slave to gladiator to, to rebel, leader to King, and make that journey.Uh, you know, feel earned. So that when he came back, that felt earned. Um, and so, so that whole civil war story, you know, just evolved in the course of that, uh, that retreat. Uh, and, and in some ways, out of the desperation of something’s not working right with, with this world war [00:46:00] Hulk story. Um, so yeah, sometimes things will, will shift around or change because it’s not just not the right time or we don’t have things lined up properly or, or, or whatnot.Um, you know, it’s not, it’s, it’s not even all that rare, you know, things will, things will jock, jock back and forth. Um, uh, you know, again, depending on where people are on their stories and how much they’ve got, Donnie usually plans things out super far in advance, so he doesn’t just know what his next story is going to be in venom or whatever.He knows what the next one’s going to be and the one after that and the one after that. And here’s my plan for the sixth one that I’m building to all the way down here. And so sometimes he has to adapt to things that are going on. Elsewhere. If there’s something happening in Spiderman that suddenly is going to impact on something he wants to do in his fifth story, um, you know, or, or, or in, you know, whatever book in, in fantastic four or the Hulk or, or whatever.Uh, and that’s true. If that’s true of everybody, [00:47:00] um, you know, but that, that’s, that’s the, that’s the fun and the responsibility of working in the shared sandbox that is the Marvel universe.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: awesome though. How do you keep track of that stuff, man? Do you have like a giant flow chart sitting in your office or is it all in you guys’ minds? Because that sounds incredible amount of gears to keep on track.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: It, it, it, it is in every case. And I, you know, I typically do have, you know, a big, uh, you know, like, okay, you know, power pro, a spreadsheet. You know that, that, that’s charting, you know, a bunch of the books and what’s going on and all the books every, every month out for however long as do all the other key editors, you know, in the, in the, in the place I, we talk back and forth like a lot of this, it sounds complicated, but it doesn’t necessarily impact in a big way on the next issue of Avengers per se, but it does impact on [00:48:00] when.These storylines of these events are going to spread out across the whole of the Marvel universe and need to be reflected in places. So things like if iron man’s going to get a new. Uh, a new armor redesign in the Ironman book. I need to figure out when that’s going to also be incorporated into Avengers and where the natural break point is and that story to go, okay, this adventure is over in between this adventure and the next adventure.Iron man would off had that other story and iron man, God, his new armor, and now he’s back looking likeKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: right, right.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: You know? So there’s, there’s stuff like that and there’s stuff the other way too. If Ironman goes through some big thing and Avengers, you want to be able to reflect that in issues of iron man. So, so, you know, we also, I also send out every week to, I got a little mailing list of, of my key Avengers contributors and it’s now kind of grown beyond that to a bunch of different people working at Marvel.You know, I send them, I send [00:49:00] them copies of all the books that go to print that week. All the Marvel universe books. Um, I don’t know that anybody reads them all, but I do know that most everybody reads, at least some of them. Um, and that’s a way that, you know, they can keep up with what’s going on and in each other’s books and even be ahead because they’ll be getting them three or four weeks before they’re on sale.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah. Yeah. That’s crazy. When do you guys still do inventory stories? Is that what, that’s what it’s called right. When you had the fillerTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: used to be? Yes. Yes. We really not, not in that way. Not really. Um, because the way the market exists now and, and, and, and the wind stories are built, um, you know, what, what the audience wants. We really, we really don’t and can’t, uh, run just a random inventory story in the middle of a run.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Do you missTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: just doesn’t work.Um, I really don’t in that, while occasionally you would get a cool inventory. [00:50:00] Um, most of them were, were kind of lame. Most of them were. They, I mean, know without, without meaning any slight to anybody who worked. A lot of people started out doing inventory stories and such, you know, so they tended to be done not by the 18.In any given place, they got, you know, they tended to be done by guys that were trying to make their bones, or guys that were, you know, long established, dirty men who needed some work. Um, and who could, you know, put together an entertaining issue of captain America in 20 pages that, you know, would, would keep the presses running that month.Um, and so, you know, most of them tend to not be terribly memorable. Uh, and so not, you know, I didn’t get into doing this to produce a lot of work that’s not memorable. Um, sometimes it’s unavoidable and sometimes we certainly make. Crummy comics because this is not science. It’s alchemy and art. And so, you know, you, [00:51:00] you know, you take your best swing every time, and sometimes you hit a home run and sometimes you strike out.Sometimes you fall out, sometimes you thrown out at second. Um, you know, like, like, yeah, you can’t control that. Um, but, but you know, that I think is, I like that better than I like just. Dropping a random, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s an adventure. It’s got 20 pages, you know, Spiderman fights somebody.There’s a, there’s a story, but it doesn’t really impact or affect anything. And I don’t think the audience these days. Uh, yeah. With the cost of the books, I was, how everything is so connected and plugged in. I don’t think the audience really wants that either. I mean, they complain about the, about, you know, the issues or stories in air quotes, not counting or not mattering even when they’re by the regular teeth. So. You know, the idea that an issue would just show up and it’d be a Daredevil story by whoever is not the regular guys on that thing. You know, chip [00:52:00] Starsky takes the month off and somebody else is writing 20 pages of Daredevil. I can’t imagine people, you know, being happy with that reading experience and it making them want to come back to say nothing of the fact that nowadays pretty much everything we do virtually is collected as, as as books.You know, so, so, you know,Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: They get into that trade paperback and you know.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s disruptive and it’s, you know, it sticks out like a sore thumb. You know, back in the day when these were just kind of disposable periodicals, you know, after your month was over. No, it was, it was, it was done and gone. You soldKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: That makes a lot ofTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: of comics you needed to sell that month.Then you brought the money in that needed to be brought in and you were, you were over in, you know, back to regular programming. Uh, it’s just a different, it’s just a different world.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Now with the, with the advent of the internet, and it seems like, uh, when I was, you know, when I started reading [00:53:00] and collecting comic books and I get my bags and it took me about six years where I realized that, Oh, I should put boards in the back of these, and I knew the names based on what I read.But you didn’t know anything more than the name of the person. Right. I didn’t know what they look like. I didn’t know. Uh, I wouldn’t have correlated the fact that Jim shooter was an overarching editor across all these titles. You know, in the seventies and eighties. It just wouldn’t click with me. But now at the eighties, you see somebody like Brian Michael Bendis leave Marvel and then show up at DC.Uh, how do you guys go about feeling about that type of stuff being out there? Cause it, it, you guys have a plethora of talent. So I felt like, um, you know. Michael leaves and to me, or Brian leaves. And to me, Donnie Kate steps up and it seems like you guys have a really good knack of picking the right people, but on top of that, you know, what does it, what goes through the process when somebody does leave?Is there a lot of shoring up of [00:54:00] stories? Is there any type of scramble? And, and just so you know, Tom, if, if, if I ask you any questions and you’re not, you don’t want to talk about it, just tell us and we’ll just edit it out. I don’t want you to feelTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Oh, Oh, Oh. Don’t worry. I will be, yeah. If there’s something that I, I don’t want to really can’t talk about, I’ll say it, but this is, this is. This is fine. You know, first off, um, you know, you’re right that the internet has made this tougher, but it was, you know, depending on how old you were and how plugged in you were.Again, I’m obviously a bunch of years older than you were, and in the eighties when stuff like that was happening, I knew everything that was going on because I was following.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: The tradeTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: heroes. And I was following the comics journal and I was following the comics buyer’s guide. And so while I might not have been able to recognize Chris Claremont in a, in a lineup, I knew when he andKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: such a good writer.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: working on X-Men anymore, and that John was going to be taking over fantastic four.And now this new guy, Paul Smith, was going to be coming in to [00:55:00] Drax man. And you know, all of those shenanigans. There was an audience for, it just was a smaller audience because it was harder information to get out. You only really had what was in the books. Um, and, and, uh, you know, so that’s, you know, the, the, the fact that there’s greater transparency means just that more people are aware of it and the, the people that really care about it, like I did in the eighties, you know, can more readily.Uh, uh, you know, plug into that and get that stuff. Um, you know, you work at Marvel and, and I say this and people are gonna laugh and they’re good. They’re going to laugh because as, as the biggest company, you know, and, and as a, you know, a piece of Disney, it isn’t natural to think about Marvel as being the evil empire.Um, but at, at, at Marvel, we work very hard, and we have worked very hard for a very long time. Uh, to try to foster an environment that is friendly, [00:56:00] accommodating, open, and welcoming to creators. We want the best creators working for us. We want them doing their best work. We want them being part of the team with us, and we want everybody working hand in hand to create great stories.And we try to create and foster that environment. Um, you know, Brian was with Marvel for. 14 years. 15 he did. He was, he, he did a lot of times I may have been longer than that. When I stop and think about it, it may even be closer to likeKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Brian Michael minister there a long time.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah. Brian, not only, not only had he been there for that long, but as sort of like a top dog ascended talent.She did just about everything it was possible to do. Like you can’t, you can’t really easily think of like books or characters that Brian didn’t write and didn’t write for significant chunks of time. So it. Yeah. So in, in, in some [00:57:00] ways the, I, you know, it was not, you know, it wasn’t like it was a welcome thing that he was going to go over and do stuff with, with DC, but, um, you know, it was not surprising either because you know, it, it becomes more difficult after a while for him not to be repeating himself at Marvel and DC, there’s a whole wide open field of, of characters and ideas and things that he read when he was.You know, and I’ll put it coming, uh, you know, reader and, and, and would be a creator, uh, just like, uh, we did. Uh, and that he’s got affection for an ideas for, uh, and it’s, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s a Virgin landscape to play with. You know, hopefully at some point, you know, your hope would be that eventually he’ll come back and do more stuff for Marvel.Either way. You know, wish I wish him the best on everything that he’s doing. Um, you know, I’m following, I’m keeping up not so much these last two months because there haven’t been any, but, you know, I’ve been keeping up, uh, you know, with, with, with the books he’s [00:58:00] been been writing over there.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: God, there’s so many of them.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah.And like you say, you know, hopefully, you know, we try to be good at, at fostering and, and bringing in and building up, uh, you know, new talent and new voices, you know, so that as people rotate out and because they, they do, everybody’s, everybody’s got a certain, for lack of better term, shelf life. And that sounds, that sounds kind of awful.But it’s the only term that really, like you’re, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re there for a, it’s your prime, your moment in the sod, and then it’s time for the generation after you to take your place.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Especially in that creativeTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: and, and, yeah, and, and so, you know, we’re constantly looking and working to build up who are the, who are the new voices, who, where’s the new people and how do we develop them and build them up.So they go from. Whatever, go from writing FENOs to writing guardians of the galaxy to writing, venom, to writing, you know, Thor, you know, [00:59:00] and, and, and, and to become, uh, you know, the people who can step into those positions when the time comes, when those, when those positions are gone, nobody particularly wanted Brian to, to leave.Um, maybe Donnie did, it was an opening, but, Yeah. No, but I, I really, you know, nobody, nobody did. But, but, you know, the, th the, the truism of Marvel is, you know, for the most part, when these things have happened, uh, you know, we’ve, we’ve survived, you know, the, the thing that I, that I tell people is Jack Kirby left Marvel in 1970 and Marvel still here.If Jack, if Jack can leave and Marvel is okay, then pretty much any of us are replaceableKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: That’s a healthy attitude to have about it actually.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: and that’s it, you know? So.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: So in 2017 Heather tweeted out a picture, get having milkshakes with her, [01:00:00] with her girlfriends there in the office. She had a, she got a bunch of Slack. It was ridiculous. And Marvel as a company really stepped up and condemn the actions of the people that, that went, that, you know, targeted her.Um. What did that do for you guys as an environment? Did it really put some things into perspective of, wow, there is some really, for lack of a better term, crappy people out there that are forcing things that aren’t what Marvel? Because Marvel to me has always been very much on the forefront of being progressive when it came to race, when it came to sexuality, when, you know, I learned my ethics and moral value from reading Stanley’s, uh.Forwards.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yup. Yup. Um, I think certainly, you know, that was, uh, you know, to some degree, a wake up call, um, and, and you know, the, the, the fact that there is some small subset of. [01:01:00] Uh, the audience that, that, that feels that way. Uh, and not just that they feel that way. Anybody’s entitled to feel however they want or to respond to the work.However they want. The, the, the fact that they, they, they feel the need to act out in that way. Um, you know, it wasn’t just, it wasn’t just the people. We’re, we’re, uh, you know, were upset that there was a photograph of, of, uh, a bunch of lady comic book out of his great, good milkshakes. It was the way they went about harassing and abusing and, and belittling and talking about those people, colleagues of mine and colleagues of the rest of our staff.That was distressing.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Did it feel like an attack on you guys as Marvel as a whole, more than just Heather and the, and the people that were shownTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: It is, although obviously it affected those people more because they were on the front lines. And, you know, the, the reality too is there’s, there’s only so much you can do about it. People are gonna make whatever YouTube videos they’re gonna [01:02:00] make, and, you know, I could choose to watch them or not watch them.You can guess which one I tend to, I tend to follow. Um. You know, anybody’s entitled to their, their opinion, uh, when it, when it starts to turn into like, you know, harassment and so forth. I have no, I got no truck with it personally. I just, I just blocked that stuff. Um, and, and I just, I, you know, and I don’t, I try not to think twice about it, uh, at this point.And certainly there were those who run around with that as a badge of honor, or who will feel terribly slighted. How dare he blocked me. I was just trying to give my, uh, you know, to show my opinion and Marvel doesn’t care about its fans and, um, no, no, no, no. I’ll, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll listen to any. Any sort of criticism, and I’ll respect your, your point of view.Um, when it comes to the work, when it comes to talking shit about my colleagues and the people on our staff. Um, you know, if you were in my [01:03:00] house, I. I’d ask you to leave, and if you didn’t leave, I would make you leave. I will say this and this, and this is no different. You know, if you want to do that, that’s fine.There’s plenty of places out in the world where you can go and bitch about this stuff for whatever reason it is. You know, there’s a million reasons why people are drawn to these stories and these characters, and none of it is, is, is per se wrong. Everyone likes the stuff that they like, and theoretically.There’s room for everybody to have their areas and have their stuff. Uh, and, and the problem comes when people feel such ownership over this stuff that they just get. And, and it’s a fanish thing. Like we’ve all, we’ve all had it. I remember when I was a reader and I didn’t like, you know, they, they changed, uh, you know, they think they, they, they changed Spiderman costume to the black costume.And I did not like that. And so, you know, I stopped, I stopped reading Spiderman, which would seem to be. The, the sensible way of dealing with that. Uh, and certainly if I always [01:04:00] have aKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Don’t give him your money.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: I would, you know, I would bitch about that. They put Spiderman and that crummy black costume and how stupid can they be?Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: the opposite. I loved the black costume.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: well, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s a generational thing and now it’s been around for so long that it’s not even a thing. But at the time,Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: It’sTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: that was a huge, but, you know, I, I didn’t feel a need to stock Tom to Falco. I didn’t feel a need to like, you know, uh, belittle, uh, Ron friends, uh, or a tear down, uh, you know, Roger stir andKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: right,Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: they were doing this, this, this store, I didn’t take it that personally.I took it personally enough to go, I’m upset. I’m not gonna read this Spiderman book anymore because it’s not doing things that I like. Um, but I didn’t feel a need to like. Storm, the storm, the Gates and fixed Spiderman costume, and demanded apology for the fact that it was a black them all. They just, or, or, or whatever the, or whatever the heck it is, you know?Um, [01:05:00] I think, I think, you know, and, and like, you know, that was, that was my opinion. Uh, that was how I felt at that, at that moment. You know, that’s not necessarily the way I feel now, whatever, 40, 40 years later. But. It’s, you know, that was, that was it. And that was genuine. And that’s, that’s fine. That’s fine.Pardon? Being a reader and a fan and enthusiastic, but it, yeah. The line gets drawn when you start treating people, real human beings, people like crap.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: yeah. That’s what I felt when I read those tweets and stuff. I was like, this is a joke. This is ridiculous. You know? Hey, I was, you know, I was done. That whole community part, I don’t even like. I don’t know. You can’t even say names of people that are in, I’ll just say that community, because I don’t know who they are.You know? It’sTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Honestly, you’re better off just like not knowing, you know, like there’s nothing, there’s nothing to be gained. Your, your, your, your, your, your life, your experience, you know, [01:06:00] in this world will not be made better by exposing yourself to that. Uh, it will not aluminate you in some way will not make you a better person.It will not make you a more rounded individual. It’s just a lot of odd you to, that you just don’t need. And so, you know, for me, anybody shows up. That I feel like is expressing themselves in that kind of way. I just, I just get rid of them in my, in my feet and, and that’s, that’s it. And you know, if they want to decide that, Oh, he can’t take criticism, that’s fine.Go bitch about it. Wherever it is that you bitch about this stuff, feel free to do that. It’s a, it’s a free world. There’s a whole lot of internet out there. Pick your corner steak, you know, put your soap box up, stake your claim. That’s fine. I don’t, I don’t need it in my world.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: yeah. I’m right there with you. I like it. You know? It’s funny you brought up the black costume. And, uh, I had the same feelings. Uh, I was a huge magic fan, right? Eliana Rasputin, I, that was one of the first books that I read was her mini series, [01:07:00] but from back in the early eighties, and ITom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: getting along, so we were getting along so well here.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: I snuck into my brother’s room and he had this, the miniseries, and I read it and I was like, Oh my Lord, I love this. And then I started reading GI Joe and, and I read transformers, and then I got into Spiderman. But when Inferno happens, right? And the, and, and Louis Simon’s son did a brilliant job of building her up more and more and more throughout Inferno.And then they take everything away and they make her a little girl and they take all her powers away. I was crest fallen out. I did not pick up a book that had to do with X-Men or anything that was going to have possibility of where Iliana would have been in. I couldn’t read it. I was like, nah, I just can’t do it cause they’ve, they took my girl away.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yup. Yup. No, no, look, I, and I, I, I totally get [01:08:00] that. Um, I don’t necessarily think that that was, yeah, it was wrong of them to do, but that’s, you know, the, the, I tell our younger editors.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah,Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: you know the magic trick that is our stock in trade. Um, that we try to do every single month. Every single issue is to take lines on paper and turn them into real people that the audience cares about.And that’s what you’re talking about. You cared about that character. You were invested in that character. And then this thing happenedKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: I felt like I read her journey from theTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: child and so forth, and like that was it for you. And that’s, that’s completely fair. But the fact that that, that, that there is that connection, that’s, that’s the key to everything we do.And honestly being too, being too precious with. It’s the characters, and, and, and, and with the mythology with the world and being afraid to change things up or afraid to, to, to, to, to, [01:09:00] to put characters through the ringer and so forth. That’s the kiss of death more than anything because that just dull fast.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Right. You can’t, you don’t have anything to change at that point.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah. Yeah. So, so again, I feel, I feel for your experience, I certainly. You know, I’ve had characters that I’ve, that I, that I liked, that have gone through periods or stories or things that I haven’t liked, you know, at Marvel and elsewhere. Um, and, and, uh, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s what it is. I kind of feel like having, you know, read the books for as long as I have at this point.Um, I’ve got enough of a, uh, a macro sense now to kind of go, well, you know, every, everything this too shall pass.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: right,Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Um, you know, and, and so if you just wait long enough or you know, if it’s not for you right now, move on to something else, you know, read or pay attention, followKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: yup. That’s exactlyTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: of content in the world.And eventually the wheel will turn again and something else will, [01:10:00] will happen. And, and, and it’ll, it’ll, it’ll pop back up.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: doing this. I’m lucky that I get to talk to people like you and talk to Walt and Louise Simonton, who I then asked, why did you do this to her? Who said, well, I actually had a whole story arc to bring her back, but things didn’t work out at that time and I had to move on to other things, and so I didn’t get it back.But she goes, but this is what I was thinking. And I was like, Oh. You just cured everythingTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Well there you go.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: so you get lucky. Hey, what’s it like walking that? I know you. I don’t, I don’t know.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Right now. I don’t know what it’s like walkingKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: I know, right? Either doTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: out of this. I haven’t been out of this house in 10Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: how weird is that? How weird is that?Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: yeah, it’s, it’s a, it’s, it’s a bit of a sea change. Yes.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: but I was going to ask, how is it following people like Stanley and Jack Kirby and wanting to at least get the stories and the and everything with their going [01:11:00] to, they would be happy with as well. I mean, you can’t satisfy everybody, and I’m sure there’s tons of stories that have been produced that Stanley and Jack Kirby would have been like, Oh my God, what are you guys doing?But at the same time. The, the feeling of everything. Cause the one thing I feel like Tom, when I read Marvel today, I still feel like you guys are. Producing content that would have been happy in the eighties happy in the nineties happy. You know, obviously today that you’re not just throwing out all that history that you guys are trying to keep everything.Uh, what’s the word I’m looking for? Respectful of everything that’s come before, you know, and moving forward and having that change.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: yeah. Well, yeah. Well, thank you. Right. You know, again, we, we, we work at trying to strike that balance between. Uh, you know, honoring the stuff that’s come before and, you know, pushing all the characters and all of the stories and things into new areas and new directions that they haven’t been yet.Because the [01:12:00] dullest thing in the world is to read the same story over and over and over again. You know, so you’re constantly looking for what new angle, what new twists, what do new take, what new thing can you put Spiderman through? What new villain can he fight that he hasn’t fought before? What new conflict, what new problem can he grapple with?That is in some way, a Peter Parker problem that we haven’t seen before. But that feels like it’s of a piece with all the stuff that’s come before. Uh, and, and how do we do that again and again, and again, every month, sometimes a couple of times a month in different books. Uh, and that’s, you know, that’s what all of our creators, uh, you know, work out and wrestle with every, every month.Um, you know, so, uh, you know, I appreciate that, that, that you feel like, you know, we’ve been, we’ve been, uh, you know, maintaining the. The overall consistency of, of the Marvel universe, uh, and, and, and the stories of the characters and, and, you know, trying to live up to that legacy. Uh, you know, we certainly try it with [01:13:00] every book every month.Uh, and as I say, sometimes. You know, sometimes we strike out. It’s, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s rules of the game. If you’re at bat enough, you’re not going to hit the ball every single time. Um, but, but we, every time you get into the batter’s box, you swing like, you mean it. Uh, and that’s, that’s, you know, that’s all we can do.I was like, the best we can do, uh, you know, and, and. Typically it’s, you know, it’s the audience that tells us what’s, what’s working and what doesn’t, and it’s very democratic. If, if people respond to something or like something, chances are we’re going to try to do more stuff like that. And if people don’t respond to something, it’s going to go away and we’re going to try to do stuff that’s different from that because that’s, that’s what the audience is, is, is telling us as a whole that, that they’re responding to.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah. W did you have a chance to meet Stanley? I would assume you would have.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Oh, yeah, yeah. I met Stan. I worked with him a bunch ofKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: What did he give you? Any lasting [01:14:00] advice that just stuck with you?Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Um, no, not, not advice per se, although I’m sure, you know, there are nuggets of, of truth or wisdom, you know, scattered throughout whatever interactions there were, um, you know, over the years. Um, you know, but, but yeah, the, the, the same stuff that Stan would have would have said to me, it’s the same stuff that he said to everybody and said publicly and said in a million interviews and things, you know, over the years, you know, that the, that the real.The real trick of this stuff is it’s not about the costumes and the, and the, the, the powers and the gadgets and, and that stuff. It’s about the people inside the costumes and the human problems that they have. And that’s. That’s, you know, the,Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: I think that’s so true. Yeah,Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: um, you know, you know, uh, uh, what makes Spiderman, Spiderman isn’t the written blue costume or the black costume.If you happen to go that way, um, you know, and, and, and the web shooters and the stick in the [01:15:00] walls, it’s. Peter Parker’s life versus spider man’s life. It’s balancing, you know, the needs and responsibilities and calling of being a young guy, uh, you know, in the world with, you know, the, the, the duties and the responsibilities of trying to make the world a better place as, and use your powers responsibly.And that’s, that’s it. And as long as you could find. Stories that, that touch on that they’ll be good. Spiderman stories. That’s, that’s really the, the key. Tell me who that, that, that character is inside the costume. Tell me what is what he loves. Tell me what he wants to tell me. What he dreams of tells me.Tell me what he’s afraid of. Tell, tell me what the worst thing that could happen to them is. Tell me what the best thing that could happen to him is, tell me what his hopes are and then I’m going to care. When he’s in a life or death situation and has to make choices and has to live with the consequences of those choices.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: The, the story that hits me with [01:16:00] Spiderman will always be craving his last hunt. I think that is was such a powerful story, and it. And in such a shocking way, and I sometimes I wish it would resonate more within Peter’s, uh, identity to still today. And I don’t know if it does as much as it did for those first few years after it came out.I mean, you’re talking what, 35 years ago now, right. Um, but at the same time, it was so good. Uh, yeah, we had.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: a, it’s a great story. It, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s lasted the test ofKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah. I wish they would do that. I wish they would do that as a movie. I would be so excited. I told JMD Mateus we were talking that was like, man, they need to have Toby McGuire come back and Sam Raimi come back and do that story. Cause I’m just, I wanna I want an adult Spiderman. Cause when I, cause when I started reading Spiderman, you know, we’re in the eighties so the big events where we’re the black costume and him getting married and Cravens last hunt, those were the [01:17:00] big events all in his late twenties early thirties you know, not the high school stuff, which was great.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: late, late, late, late twenties at the oldest.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah. But it was just goodTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: on. Is that the oldest he might’ve, he might’ve, he might’ve seemed to you like he was in his thirties, late twenties at his oldest,Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: definitely.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: but, but, uh, um, you know, honestly, yeah, there’s, you know, there’s a whole, there’s a whole generation of spidey readers who feel that way.Um, and, and, uh, you know, I certainly think you could do. Cravens last time, you know, use that as the basis for a film. Um, I don’t know that, you know, uh, other than, you know, in a sort of, uh, you know, for lack of better term, off-brand way, like the, the, the, into the spider verse movie, I don’t know that you’re really going to see an adult married Spiderman, because when you’re talking about what.[01:18:00] What makes that character iconic and quintessential. That’s not really it, but those, those are really the years where it was the most off-brand. And I, I completely understand for the generation of readers, and it was a long generation because it was a long time that that Pete and M J were married, like that was their version of Spiderman.And that’s completely valid. But. When you look at that, at that character, that series, that property, uh, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s fundamentally the best kid, teenage property ever conceived. So doing it. You know, as a, as a, as a, an adult property or as a, you know, a married guy, property is not really getting the best or the most universal out of your, out of your Spiderman.You know, possibly, and I don’t know this for any fact, but possibly if Sam Raimi had done Spiderman four and Spiderman five and Spiderman six at some [01:19:00] point. You naturally would have gone there because at that point you’d have done a bunch of stuff. And we don’t watch Toby McBryer, you know, grow older and there’s only so long he can, he can play that he’s in college or living with mr and his building or whatever, whatever it is.Um. But that’s not necessarily the best, most universal version of Spiderman. And that’s, that’s kind of why every time there’s a, there’s a cartoon, and every time the movies reset, every time you go back to ground, you start with a young Spiderman because that, that, that’s what that character. Uh, really has going, it’s baked into him that that’s what that character is about.And it’s even, it’s even true in, into the spider verse, except they’re the young character miles, you know? And so miles gets to fulfill, be the lead character in that movie and fill that role. And your [01:20:00] older Peter B. Parker, the married and sort of depressed Spiderman, you know, can it be in point to him?Um. So, so it’s not like it’s impossible that you’d ever see that if the, if the situation, the circumstances were right and such, but it’s really not the, I don’t think it’s likely that there, there’s a lot of people really pushing for that to be theKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Right, right, right.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Um, that again, that having been said, you know, Craven’s last hunt.Uh, yes. I, you know, I, I, you know, I don’t know if you asked Mark about this when you talked to him, but I know this because I’ve talked to him about it in the past or I’ve read things. People have talked to him. That story was, was originally conceived and I believe even written or partially written before the decision was made to marry Peter and Mary Jane.So they really, while they are married and that story, they don’t need to be,Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: right. They don’t need to be Mary Jane doesn’t really need to have to be in it.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah. You could, you could make, you could use that as the, as the, the, the, the raw material, the basis for, for a film. Um, you [01:21:00] know, without that being a thing. And that might be a perfectly great story to, to, to make the basis of the SpidermanKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: it’s kind of a Craven story with Spiderman just being in it.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yeah. Again, the only, the only downside, like, again, if you were going to do it as a, as a film, is you have to introduce Craven. You know, it’s, it’s not just cravings last time. It also ends up being crave. It’s first time, which is not quite the same thing. Um, you know, so you, you immediately, you have to start retail ordering and changing stuff and,Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: That’s a goodTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: make it all work.Um, yeah, but that’s, I’ll leave that to, to, you know, greater minds than, than myself. Um, so those guys don’t need my help figuring out how to make, uh, Spiderman movies.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: W you guys shocked or ready for how popular miles Morales became.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: I’m a little shocked, uh, you know, uh, a little prepared. Like, we, [01:22:00] we’re, we’re, we’re always confidently unconfident, you know, which, which is to say. You know, we tend to be the first audience for our ideas. Um, you know, as we talk about them in the, in, in the room together and bounce them back and forth. And sometimes, you know, their ideas that go ahead that, you know, those among us, sometimes I’m one of them are, are walking around going, that is the stupidest thing.That is, that is so good to crash and burn. Why are they, and then the energy on that, and sometimes those work and sometimes they don’t. Um, you know, so, you know, so we always, but you know, the, the whole reason this stuff gets done is that there’s, there’s something in the idea that excites a bunch of people.It doesn’t have to be everybody that’s there because no ideas. They excite absolutely everybody, but that people get excited about and see the potential of it and go, yeah, okay, let’s do that. Um, you know, and, and so, uh, you know, uh, Brian and [01:23:00] Sarah, uh, you know, introducing miles, so killing, killing ultimate Peter Parker and introducing miles.Part of the reason you could do that was that it was the ultimate universe, and you still would have, you know, the regular Marvel universe. Uh, Peter Parker, Spiderman in the amazing Spiderman book, you know, one door over. But that gave you a chance to do something, you know, sort of wild and revolutionary and take the character into a new direction and so forth in a way that was, for lack of better term, it was, it was, it was safe.Um, you know, and, and, and, uh, you know, in the same way that Brian was great in, in, you know, capturing. Uh, you know, the young, uh, you know, modern day teenage Peter Parker and his world and his problems, uh, you know, he was equally adapted at, at creating this new world and this new character around miles, uh, and around all of that stuff while still kind of keeping the touch points that made it feel like.Like Spiderman. [01:24:00] Um, and so it worked out. Uh, yeah. But it worked out because we all thought it was a, it was, uh, that idea worth doing and, and, and that there was something to it, but it was also kind of like a no lose proposition because even if it had crashed and burned, you’d still have.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: PeterTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: universe, Spiderman, right over there.And it’s not like you couldn’t have, if you had to, it’s not like you couldn’t have resurrected ultimate Peter Parker, and it would have been okay. You know, like, you know it, but it was an idea thatKenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: ITom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: people were.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: I gotta tell you, man, when, when I first heard about it, I was so against. Spiderman is Peter Parker. Peter Parker is Spiderman. It can’t be anybody else. And, and I was, I was just so dead against it. And then my cohost John, who’s actually on with us right now, but he’s, uh, since you and I started talking, he’s been keeping quiet.Um, he tried to explain to me. The whole concept of what miles Morales was, what it meant. And it wasn’t about race [01:25:00] or culture change or anything like that, cause I don’t care about that stuff. But it was a fact that it wasn’t Peter Parker. And that was so, and then I read the story and I read, you know, and I saw the movie and I was like, crap, this is really, really good.And it was like, nah, now I’m just like, okay, well there you go. Miles Morales, one of the best characters that come out in a long time.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Oh, well, that’s, that’s again, that’s just a Testament to. So, uh, know Brian and Sarah Kelly and, and the, you know, all the people that, uh, that have, have worked on that character since including, uh, you know, uh, uh, you know, Lord and Miller on the, on the, the film. Um, you know, the, the, the thing that makes the characters graders is the, the, the people behind them that come up with these stories and, and bring those, those characters to life.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: That’s awesome. Well, Tom, we’ve been on for like an hour and 15 can you believe it?Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: I can,Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Oh, youTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: later here than it is by you.[01:26:00] Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Is it getting late there?Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: It’s a little, it’s a little on the, uh, on the latest side yet it’s at least dark. Um, I’m, I’m a hearing in a dark room, so, so there’s that, that there’s telling me that the sun has gone down.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Well, I so much appreciate you coming on and spending some yarn with us. It’s been a wonderful conversation. It really has. Um, I’m hopingTom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: very nice. Maybe John, maybe we’ll be able to talk sometime in the future.John Interview: Right next time. Yeah. Let’s talk. Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Well, hopefully we can get you to come on again because, uh, with as much history, 30 years at Marvel and all the history that Marvel has, uh, I feel like we could probably do another three hours without blinking. And I, and so to get you to come back on and talk some more would be, um, well, I’d feel like it’d be a win win for me.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: All right, well, we’ll just have to see if we could schedule it up and then I’d be happy to do it again at some point.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Cool. Thanks Tom for [01:27:00] coming on. Really appreciate you.John Interview: Thank you. Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Sure thing. Um, you know, uh, happy to have been here. Thanks for the excellent conversation and for, uh, you know, reading all the stuff that you’ve been reading and, and, uh, you know, keeping marvels, uh, foremost in your hearts.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: no problem. Thanks Tom. You have a good night,Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Yep. You too. Thanks a lot.Kenric – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: huh? Bye.Tom – – Tom Brevoort Interview.output: Alright. Alright.Kenric: And we’re back.John: are black.Kenric: So what’d you think? You were there? So you listened to itJohn: A lot of fun listening to it. I, uh, I feel I actually, this is one of the, I mean, I said this before, but I put, this is the one on one, trying to learn something, listening to it, you know?Kenric: Oh really?John: Yeah. Just because he had such an insight, like we ask about certain things and he’d give, he could give it from that editorial insight from behind the scenes. It’s not just a, you know, the critter inside, but, uh, the company insight, you know, and he wasn’t afraid to say his mind or what he thought about things, which was really cool.Kenric: I thought it was interesting to listen how they do crossover events, you know, and, and how [01:28:00] I, he goes, it’s not that big a deal with the keeping everything in. Well, he doesn’t quite say it’s not that big a deal, but yeah. He, it’s, it’s not too difficult for them to keep everything in check, you know, writing everything.But to me it’s like, there’s so many gears there has, you know, how do you not to me, I’d want a big wall that had every event and everything, kind of how it mixes in together that would help me, you know.John: What got me was like, he was saying like, you know, all the titles aren’t required to be a part of it. It kind of feels like, I mean, I always thought they were required. Oh, This event, you have to be a part of this, but they can choose to be in if they want to, which is kind of cool.Kenric: Yeah. The, the main writing staff of that book can choose to be, or the, the, the team, the, the, the project team for that book can choose to be a part of the, of the, uh, of the event or not. But I’m wondering though is, I’m sure that’s definitely true 99% of the time, but there’s gotta be some time. Well, he did say it.Sometimes it’s, you know, we do, sometimes [01:29:00] you do have to force because it’s just, you know, you can’t do a mute mutant event and not have the X-Men in it.John: Right, right. If you’re doing this across spot a minute event, you can have all the Spiderman books involved, you know, somehow.Kenric: Yeah. SoJohn: thing that did kind of get me is, uh, and I kinda knew what the answer was, but when he asked about inventory issues and he’s like, no, we don’t really do those anymore. And I get why he didn’t do it. I get why the current market doesn’t, doesn’t let itself to inventory issues, but. I kind of loved some of the fill in issues from the, from theKenric: yeah. You’d get more of the week. Yeah. Cause you’d get more of those weird issues. That you, you know, weird storylines and things could change based on what an inventory issue did that they just don’t get any more. And he did say it’s, it’s, you know, it was a way for people to break into the business. Oh, that was the last thing I wanted to ask them and I didn’t.And you know, next time we get them on, we’re going to ask them what up and coming writers and artists can do to get on the radar of Marvel.John: That’s a good question. Yeah, that’d be next time.Kenric: Yeah. Next time. Ah, I feel bad for anybody listening that is an aspiring writer and artist that wants to know [01:30:00] that information. Uh, we will do our best to get it to you because, um, that’s one of the things that’s always a mystery, you know, how do you get a job at, at Marvel as a writer or as an artist without knowing somebody, you know, I think, uh.Who gave us was it Eric Larson, I think gave us the best advice that you want to have. I think it was Eric Larson that you want to have. Don’t show me a splash page. Don’t show me a single pose. Show me a full book.John: Yeah. One of the things I read a long time ago when I was first trying to do comics, I was reading the thing. I think it was joke with Sada. I should. I’m pretty sure it was joke was that I was reading a thing about how to break into their common bits. It’s wouldn’t say this for mobile, but for in general. And he was like, he looks at, he looks at portfolios all day long and people who can draw splash pages or draw these dynamic poses that people always like, that’s not what you look for when he looks for, when he’s looking at over pages for people to hire, he’s looking for people who can draw backgrounds, people who can draw emotions in faces. Like, if you can draw, if you couldn’t draw a city scapes and cars and backgrounds and make things, look, you know, have [01:31:00] feeling to them, that’s what makes way more sense than being able to drop, you know, A double page, spread of Spiderman and jump into the city. You know, it’s, it’s all about what’d. You can tell the story.Kenric: yup, yup, yup. So we’ll try to get that from an editor’s point of view at Marvel, which would be great.John: It will be.Kenric: There you guys go. So if you love that and you want more content like that, you want to learn more about comic books, or maybe you just love a good interview with some interesting people beyond just comic books and directors and movie stars and TV stars, which is so weird to say this, but it’s all true.And you. You can go back into our back catalog, no paywall. That means you don’t have to pay a damn dime to listen and gather all that stuff and check it all out because it’s all right there@spoilers.com for you to peruse.John: Yep. No paywall, but you can, you can, if you do want to pay somebody, you can go to the store link right in the middle of the page, go up, click on that store. They can go get [01:32:00] a tee shirt or a hoodie or a sticker or somethingKenric: help us out on some shackles.John: And as of today, we just put up a new design with the open, your mind to read more saying on it, to where you can get that on a shirt. And I just I’ve already ordered one. It looks pretty cool.Kenric: well, there you go, Johnny. What else is available on spoiler verse.com? What are the shows? What are they articles? Can they check out?John: Oh man, so much stuff. You can get our show. You can get haphazard ventures, you can get bridged in the geek terms or talk lips. Coming soon, phonemic forensics and, uh, uh, nurturing the crimper to the new horror show, not new, new to us. And we’ve, I mean, we’ve got, I mean, so many shows. I can’t even name them all off that for getting at least one or two. Ah, articles from Sarah Kay, doing the forensics, doing her, you know, forensic looking into the supernatural and paranormal. We’ve got Jay Roach writing about everything from his workout routine test launch to a Sarah I’ve seen before and the Aerobahn CEO wants to see. So, I mean, there’s so much stuff up there that if you go to spillovers.com, you’re bound to find something you enjoy.Kenric: well, there you guys go. All [01:33:00] right. I think that’s a show, John.John: Yeah, that’s a show, man.Kenric: All right, guys, don’t forget. And our oceans are podcastsJohn: areKenric: and it compels you to do open the mind.John: And read more and go buy a tee shirt that says that too.Kenric: I love it.
Today Jeff Haas gets to sit down and chat with superstar writer Peter Milligan about his career, his series with AWA Studios “American Ronin”, and about the current COVID pandemic. Find Peter online:https://twitter.com/1PeterMilliganhttps://awastudios.net/news/peter-milligan-talks-awas-american-ronin/ “Drinks and Comics with Spoiler Country!”https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC25ZJLg6vL4jjRgC1ebshCA Did you know we have a YouTube channel?https://youtube.com/channel/UCstl1UHQVUC85DrCagF-wuQ Follow us on Social Media:http://facebook.com/spoilercountry/http://twitter.com/spoiler_countryhttp://instagram.com/spoilercountry/ Kenric:http://twitter.com/XKenricX John:http://twitter.com/y2clhttp://instagram.com/y2cl/http://y2cl.nethttp://eynesanthology.com Casey:https://twitter.com/robotseatguitarhttps://thecomicjam.com/ Buy John’s Comics!http://y2cl.net/the-store/ Support us on Patreon:http://patreon.com/spoilercountry Interview scheduled by Jeffery Haashttps://twitter.com/jhaasinterviews Theme music by Good Co Music:https://www.goodcomusic.com/ Steve the robot provided this transcript for you. There will be errors.  Transcript [00:00:00] Peter Milligan Interview – Jeff – SKYPE: okay. Hi. Hi, today we’re talking toJeff: Peter Milligan and you’re listening to spoiler country. I talked to doing mr. Milligan.Jeff: I’m doing a goodPeter Milligan: as good as one can be in this, strange and terrible. ,Jeff: well, do we allPeter Milligan: find ourselves in. Jeff: how things hitting you in London Peter Milligan: where I am in my house is fine.no one, no, my family’s, come down with COVID-19, which is a good, my wife’s wants to job, but, she worked in the airline industry. So this did not come as a huge shock.Jeff: so, you know, I mean,Peter Milligan: lookJeff: it’s, I mean, it wasPeter Milligan: interesting. What I find interesting about this whole thing is that for the first time IJeff: know it’s like everyonePeter Milligan: in the world, Oh, having similar experiences.Yeah. It’s everyone is having a similar experience. Isn’tJeff: It’s this, orPeter Milligan: the, kind of a, a kind of homogenous entity of this as a world of experience around the world, [00:01:00] whether you in a, I don’t know what part of the world where you can be in Tundra, you could be in Highlander, you can be in forest, the central nurse of what’s going on.This bloody disease, this bloody thing is very similar. And I think it’s a bit odd.Jeff: It’s like at the very point where we are mostPeter Milligan: together, because of that is the time when obstacle we have to be most altogether. Jeff: Yeah. I must admit I’m having similar.Jeff: Um, my wifeJeff: is considered, I guess they now call her a central employee.She works at Walmart, so she’s basically forced to deal with people every single day. Which is awful because she has severe asthma and it’s a weird situation where you’re, I both am forced to let her go to work for financial reasons. But then on the other hand, desperate would like her not to beJeff: severePeter Milligan: asthma.Is that, does that not count as an underlying health issue to acute, uh, from a working. Jeff: you would think, but, this [00:02:00] is United States and the doctor said she won’t excuse it. So she was basically forced to go to work.Jeff: Right. I mean, what I would suggestPeter Milligan: that your wife injects some bleach, you might find that you might find that very efficacious in dealing with Jeff: it.It’s amazing how, um,Jeff: SomeJeff: glaring holes in our government have been even more obvious than before because of what’s going on. Peter Milligan: I thinkJeff: I thinkJeff: that that part is so it’s, it’s so sadly true. And it’sJeff: such a, an amazing farce thatJeff: I honestly do believe. cause one thing we’re going to get you as well as talking about your story,Jeff: uh, tomorrow, which deals with India, the virus.Jeff: And Peter Milligan: talk about this. If I finish, let’s talk Jeff: about that yet. But my point was that I think if you had a leader and you presented him the way we, uh, Trump actually is, I’m not sure people would look at your story as anything more than a satire is in it’s oddly enough, that it’s actually [00:03:00] real, it’s real that any writer would ever have deer making something because itJeff: was such,Peter Milligan: it was some people.Well, impossible to satire.Jeff: I think boys’ JohnsonPeter Milligan: quite comes quite close to that. Uh, but, but you could just about making more extreme than what is,Jeff: but there are some people you justPeter Milligan: can’tJeff: cause they are almost like self.Peter Milligan: Set. Jeff: It is amazing that it is on some level. It’s sad for both our country and your country that we deal with leaders like this, but it’s, it’s a weird bonding experience between countries.You go, Hey, our leaders, an idiot too, and an incompetent something we can,Jeff: have like this weirdJeff: cultural, genetic connection now through incompetence.Jeff: Yeah. But at least I only know somePeter Milligan: lesson. So I think, um, I think, I think we should be quite a good, uh, feel good about that. ThatJeff: our,Peter Milligan: our leader can occasionally sprout up.Jeff: ThePeter Milligan: It’s a Latin phrase. I always think that’s good in a leader. Jeff: Yeah. He’s sort of like the smart Trump, I guess on some level [00:04:00] or maybe ours is just a dumb Boris. It’s hard to tell the difference Peter Milligan: anyway. Jeff: Yes. But yeah, IJeff: will,Jeff: I will stand here and we’ll point out that Trump isJeff: our national embarrassment. and unfortunately it’s unfortunate that it is a crisisJeff: that feelsJeff: like,Jeff: we’re rudderless and it does have a sense of, we don’t have someone to kind ofJeff: directJeff: people’s anxiety in a way that’s more beneficial to us.Jeff: I think a,Peter Milligan: I think a lot of governments is suddenly out of their depth, causeJeff: they’rePeter Milligan: not,Jeff: they’re not builtPeter Milligan: for this kind of thing.I mean,Jeff: you have people likePeter Milligan: Angela Merkel in Germany who is completely able to handle it because she was a scientist. And when she gives you a talks, They’re just like exercises in clarity and clear thinking and exactly what you should do. And they’re just like, exactly how you should handle this stuff, but she’s a scientist.So she’s kind of aJeff: got a headPeter Milligan: start on lots of other people. Jeff: Yeah.[00:05:00] Jeff: on our side ofJeff: the ocean, we have a Trudeau in Canada who seems to be.Jeff: Pretty much onJeff: the ball with what’s going on and,Jeff: you know, he’s, very wellJeff: spoken. He does seem to have an understanding of things.Jeff: And it’s interesting to have someone thatJeff: close to us on the border, who seems to be able to handle it in a far more, maybe mature way orJeff: way,Jeff: and then look in and go crap.But we’ve Peter Milligan: got, we should, we shall see. We shall see. Anyway, uh,Jeff: I once wrote aPeter Milligan: book about virus. In fact, that’s what we were to talk about. Uh, it’s cool to know.Jeff: Yeah. So as far as tomorrow goes, what wasJeff: your inspiration for the store? Cause obviously it came before the current pandemic, but those seems extremely timely.Now, what was the inspiration for that sparked your interest in that?Jeff: Well, it really was.Peter Milligan: I mean,Jeff: it’s, it’sPeter Milligan: a story about,Jeff: a virus,Peter Milligan: that it’s, it’s still a slight computer flowers and it, it jumps the species barrier from computer into man. Jeff: I mean,Peter Milligan: in terms of the [00:06:00] virus, I mean, it’s been clear to anyone who kind of, thinks about it and looks at stuff that sometimes, you know, they’re different saws and Mars and different kinds of viruses that sometimes bring it up,Jeff: that they would eventuallyPeter Milligan: have been.One that takes everyone by a surprise and it takes the world by storm. And I mean, that’s kind of anyone who thought about it for half a minute. it was clear that that could happen,Jeff: but tomorrow,Peter Milligan: I mean,Jeff: it wasn’tPeter Milligan: so much about the virus. it was just, I was more interested in theJeff: situationPeter Milligan: that the virus presented us with.I was more interested in, I mean, the virus without being, this is a spoiler country now with a spoiler alert, Jeff: it’s mainlyPeter Milligan: the adults or almost exclusively the adults who, who die. And, the ward is pretty quickly left, being run by the kids, In the, in the, in the, in the combo, we suggest that these go, these [00:07:00] kids’ brains have been slightly changed by the time to the time they spent on computers.And it’s that slight change in their brain, which has, which has protected them. If you will form a, this virus and most ofJeff: the adultsPeter Milligan: don’t spend as long, In front of a computer screens and their brains, haven’t had thisJeff: of a newerPeter Milligan: plasticity, and therefore they’re dead. They’re gone.Jeff: I was gonnaJeff: sayJeff: there’s an interesting parallel with today with theJeff: idea that once he had COVID is affecting mostly adults, but there’s some I’ve been going to children.Did you realize how timely it was going to be when you started writing it? Peter Milligan: Absolutely bloody. No, inJeff: fact it was, it was, it was, it wasPeter Milligan: insane because like the first. the first episode came out and then just like, it seemed like days before, with this stuff started to break, but there’s one, there’s one, there’s one panel, that [00:08:00] some people put up online and it’s just, I mean, character talking to ’em. Took me to nine one, one saying that this is a dead body and this person from 901 sayingJeff: there are no ambulances, we’rePeter Milligan: too busyJeff: to a dead bodiesPeter Milligan: everywhere. Go home, lock the doors and wait until it’s all over. And it’s like, it’sJeff: almost like it’s too muchPeter Milligan: like the, um, the recommendation you’re getting from governments everywhere.I mean,Jeff: it was, it was really old and in some ways, in some ways,Peter Milligan: I mean, sometimes you think how fantastic, you know, this, this coincidence has potentially kind of helped people be more interested in and really made this comic scene, like it’s ripped from the headlines.Jeff: But, I didn’t really feel thatPeter Milligan: because what was happening was so, so terrible and it’s so terrible that I didn’t want the comic to be seen for one.I didn’t want the comment to be seen as somehow jumping piggybacking on the back of this, this terrible [00:09:00] disaster.Jeff: and also I thoughtPeter Milligan: that perhaps. It’s people’s lives,Jeff: people’s livesPeter Milligan: are dealing with viruses. You really want to read about fucking virus when you pick up a comic. I mean,Jeff: I lose, so, I mean, on a numberPeter Milligan: of levels, I thought it wasn’t great for the comic.Clearly that wasn’t my main concern at Jeff: the time. Peter Milligan: Well, my concern, but little things like the end of humanity as we know.Jeff: so, so,Peter Milligan: but,Jeff: but.Peter Milligan: My, my interest, as I say, was not, primarily about, about the bios itself and about how itJeff: spreads. It was really about, okay,Peter Milligan: Then most of the Arabs, the dead to kids who are in control now, what kind of water they make?Who are they really? Jeff: are they better? I mean, one of these situations, Peter Milligan: for, for them, for this comic was there’d been a period of years. There’d been a number of, pretty, if you have to say inspirational young people, Jeff: who, were reallyPeter Milligan: amazing, [00:10:00] there was, my Hydrea who was shot by the Taliban and showing the face.And she was just an incredible and brave and articulate and amazing. There was a woman Emma Gonzalez who gave that speech, and this really tend to age. Who’d seen this, Seeing this, this, this terrible thing happened. And then a talk in front of, I don’t know, millions of people, whichJeff: is so kindPeter Milligan: of possessed.And so, so, amazing and inspirational.Jeff: And there were a numberPeter Milligan: ’em. There were a number of, young people, many women actually, but maybe, maybe young people and youJeff: kind of think part BPeter Milligan: them thinks, wow, ifJeff: they are the future. MaybePeter Milligan: the future is going to be okay. You know, maybe they’ll make a better shot, but then, then I kind of cynical, British part side of me, came through.I said, okay, they’re great. They’re fantastic. Can’t take anything away from them. But I remember because I remember this playground as you say, theJeff: school yard, you know, but, and [00:11:00] I mean, it’sPeter Milligan: brutal. AndJeff: for everyPeter Milligan: behavior, there’s a lot of, kind of would be a 90 year old Taliban running around, uh, uh, you know, soJeff: you can’tPeter Milligan: do too.It can be red in tooth and claw.Jeff: And ifPeter Milligan: we weigh the, the other work on pay. So really that was what I wanted to explore. what’s it what’s, it really can be like,Jeff: so it’s kind of like Lord of thePeter Milligan: flies meets of the apes. Jeff: That’s a great combination. And I mean, I Peter Milligan: have to say, I have to say, it’s sometimes it’s quite useful just to try to focus up.And whenJeff: they’re allPeter Milligan: line up,Jeff: I wrotePeter Milligan: just for myself was Lord of the flies, me as kind of the apes. Jeff: That’s a great tagline for any, for anything to hear that. And I think one thing that I really love reading, and your very first issue, you do a very well written and very, intelligently,Jeff: well thought outJeff: introduction to the comic book where you cover some of the things you’re talking about as far as.The next generation. And IJeff: thought toJeff: myself, it’sJeff: interesting that we look[00:12:00] Jeff: at the individuals who are making a Mark right now in society and that the, our children. And what do you think of that in someJeff: way that we’re handing off the role ofJeff: morality and, and those who speak for justice to children instead of having that role, be the adults who should be holding up Baton, instead of giving it over to the kids already, who may not be ready for it. Peter Milligan: Yeah. The child is the father of the man.Jeff: Yeah, well, of coursePeter Milligan: will have. Well, we’ll be handing down on a full law art, the children, not only a kind of a moral imperative, we’re handing down to themJeff: to kind of makePeter Milligan: their mobile choices in this world,Jeff: but also handing them, Oh, by the way, kids.Peter Milligan: The words are the, environment’s also Foxy.You’ve got to have that out.Jeff: And when you’ve done that,Peter Milligan: there’sJeff: a world recessionPeter Milligan: because of this, because we couldn’t work out how to deal with this pandemicJeff: because basicallyPeter Milligan: most countries have perfectly willing to spend billions of dollars onJeff: weapons. [00:13:00] It’s a minutePeter Milligan: chance that we’re going to use weapons of mass described from this like that, the chances of us ever needing them really, really remote,Jeff: but wePeter Milligan: happy.See, that’s happily seen as a, as a necessary expenditure. If someone has spent as a function of that on preparedness for a pandemic,Jeff: it would have been seenPeter Milligan: as kind of a liberal tax and spend madness and, and, and it wouldn’t have, it wouldn’t have worked. So I think that. We, we had ourselves to blame for what’s happened.Uh, and I think, uh, the way we too, with the way we deal with the natural world and the way we have it prepared, prepared forJeff: the veryPeter Milligan: obvious pandemic, there was clear, obviously you’re going to come. Uh, soJeff: I think that even though it’sPeter Milligan: terrible, I don’t think you can kind of fill to story. YouJeff: pull soPeter Milligan: individually for the human race, but as a, I kind of think, well, you know, I mean, [00:14:00] There you go, you’ve done this Jeff: now.One thing as you mentionedJeff: is thatJeff: your story is kind of looking into what the future could be. The,Jeff: as you said withJeff: the next generation now, is this something you already in your head having to answer to, or is yourJeff: story a way ofJeff: working out for yourself? Whether or not we’re in better hands or worse hands with the next generation?Peter Milligan: A bit of both. I mean, I think that I might look, I have my ideas that wasn’t going to be some kind of garden of Eden, just because, just because the kids were in control. IJeff: mean, I mean the kidsPeter Milligan: aren’t all white as to who would say powerful. I mean, a lot of them aren’t a lot of them just, you know, I mean, a lot of them are just as messed up.I mean, sometimes messed up because of the kids theyJeff: theirPeter Milligan: the arrows, the,Jeff: they heavens they had.Peter Milligan: Um,Jeff: so look,Peter Milligan: I thinkJeff: maybe,Peter Milligan: maybe it’s something which is embedded in humans. What I was interested in, in the,Jeff: I know there’sPeter Milligan: been quite a lot, there’s a kind of, there’s been quite a lot of, fire spreads around the world and decimates [00:15:00] the human population story.So I want it to not really get too hung up on the virus itself. It’s kind of there and there’s a reason for it happening. Dah, dah, dah. I was really much more interested in when you dealing with a story that potentially, with a cost of billions, because the whole planet is, is dying off you kind ofJeff: for me,Peter Milligan: I need to makeJeff: personal. So whatPeter Milligan: I was interested in is how individual people, individual characters handle this. In Sydney, unusual, situation. so, so I very quickly try to focus on a couple of key characters. andJeff: I’m onlyPeter Milligan: in there. We actually. To, this, pandemic is wiped out somebody people,Jeff: whilePeter Milligan: thanJeff: the macroPeter Milligan: politics of, of where the Bible is, is growing.Jeff: It’s reallyPeter Milligan: how these people as individuals, respond to it and react to and, and, and are affected by it. Jeff: I think when your most fascinating characters in the, in the combo obviously is your protagonist, , Oscar, Jeff: my day jobJeff: is to be, [00:16:00] I’m an English teacher at a school for special needs students, many of them who are, autisticJeff: and I found,Jeff: Oscar very interesting character.Cause, once he does describe stuff as being neuro atypical, And I thought to myself,Jeff: whatJeff: led you to making your protagonists neuro-typical? And I don’t know if you meetJeff: him or thought of himJeff: as necessarily autistic, but he definitely has those tendencies. Um, and was there anyJeff: concern of writingJeff: a character who would be, who is a neuro atypical in the story?Jeff: Uh, I mean it’s hellPeter Milligan: I mean,Jeff: You,Peter Milligan: I mean, you,Jeff: you end upPeter Milligan: choosing a character or creating a character that can best allow you to talk about what you want to talk about. And what I wanted to talk about was, the Southern strangeness of this world and howJeff: we copePeter Milligan: with Southern strangeness. And I think as, as he would say, a newer atypical person that’s as, People with this condition or they have is on the spectrum.that I feel like I’d be like, perhaps Asperger’s, Jeff: I think [00:17:00] thePeter Milligan: change is a bit difficult for them thing for them to, or youJeff: will noticePeter Milligan: often change is a very difficult thing for them to handle. and I think that.Jeff: In my researchPeter Milligan: in a muchJeff: and I’m very good friends, but directorPeter Milligan: who directed a drama about a kid’s a kid with Asperger’s and I was on set of that and I looked at it and IJeff: saw a lotPeter Milligan: what went on and that’s really interested me and I’ve with extensively on the subject.Jeff: and it seems to be that onePeter Milligan: of the, one of the key, the key markers of where this condition is that.Jeff: If they, they don’t likePeter Milligan: change, they want things to be the same way. They want things to be ordered so that they can,Jeff: get ahead aroundPeter Milligan: it. I mean, you must see this in the right.Jeff: So what anPeter Milligan: interesting characterJeff: try to deal withPeter Milligan: this massive.Jeff: World worldPeter Milligan: worldwide change.Jeff: though, thenPeter Milligan: wanted them. We’ve being Asperger’s to someone who has a problem with change. Does that make him less likely or less able to cope [00:18:00] with, uh, this world wherever these changedJeff: orPeter Milligan: does it conversely make him more ableJeff: because you do he’s alreadyPeter Milligan: every day he deals with the problem of change, small things that other people don’t notice.He will notice this change. Uh,Jeff: so he’s already,Peter Milligan: if you like. In training for a world is, for the feeling of dislocation you feel when the world changes. CauseJeff: he’s the pills like that a lot.Peter Milligan: So I thought it was an interesting question, which is not about solving the question to find out what the answer is.It’s more about the journey and about a character who seems to be, interestingJeff: point. If youPeter Milligan: Character for world has changed. That’s changed radically. Jeff: AndJeff: well, I thought it was, I said, cause I deal with theseJeff: students all the time.Jeff: So I found your, your, um, character,Jeff: very real feeling to me. Like I could see the type of aspects of your character that I see in my students all the time.And I think when the most and the things, I thinkJeff: I, thatJeff: seem very [00:19:00] ingenious of you to add to your character.Jeff: Excuse me, repeat thatPeter Milligan: again. Jeff: It’s amazing what you did with the character. And it was an ingenious of you. It’s what you did with the addition of music as a way of calming him, that Rudy comes out or he tries to focus.He focuses on his music and, and his playing. I w I believe it’s, was it cello? I believe itJeff: was. Jeff: and cause I see a lot of my students, one of the ways they try to, we give them for coping mechanisms is listening to music as a way to calm them down. I was wondering where that came, Jeff: withJeff: with the idea of giving Oscar, music as a way of expressing himself and also calming.Jeff: a lotPeter Milligan: of, people are on the, on the spectrum, Nike music. And I think there is something which is very ordered about music, mathematicians, Often, very interested in music. And in fact, lots of the mathematicians do compose music.And there was a kind of correlation between older maths andJeff: music is a worldPeter Milligan: that makes sense,Jeff: And the world[00:20:00] Peter Milligan: outside of this symphony, or this piece may make no sense whatsoever,Jeff: but there is a, there isPeter Milligan: a sense and a sense of order and a sense of completeness and a piece of music, which I thought would appeal to this character.Oscar.Jeff: And yeah, I mean, I was routinely amazed by howJeff: on point you are.Jeff: the other one,Jeff: as well as, initiallyJeff: to Oscar, a mistake, mistakes Adam’sJeff: expressions, w for he thought he was being aggressive when he’s smiling, smiling at him. And I thoughtJeff: that was so insightful as well.Jeff: And also an interesting challenge to give to your protagonist.And I was wondering what’s to go into how you. View that, you know, from a story perspective and also how much is it on your artist as well to portray a look that is both potentially confusedJeff: as hostile, but also,Jeff: um, meant to be, you know, smiling to a reader who would me recognizeJeff: it.Peter Milligan: I think that scene was probably easier for me to write it was for, um, uh, Hey us to a tool.I [00:21:00] mean, how can you draw that? It’s a bugger toJeff: draw.So I think there was, there was some,Peter Milligan: there was some panels that can be word led and some can be image led and that’s fantastic. But some,Jeff: you know, I mean, because it’s hard because we asPeter Milligan: allJeff: or the majorityPeter Milligan: of people who are not atypicalJeff: will readPeter Milligan: that as. As an, a smart, as a normal small cause we read those human gestures again. So, but it still comes back to, I was interested in this, this kid who, who struggled with making sense of the world anyway. I mean, if you like the entire population or who’s left of this world, this denuded of population, they’re trying to make sense of the world.They’re trying to. Find older in disorder, but I mean, does Oscar’s life? I mean, I think, I think that one key thing I was wanting to do with, OscarJeff: is, I mean, I am, if you like newPeter Milligan: atypical of a survivor epilepsy. So, and I go to a, I go [00:22:00] to, I belong to this epilepsy club. I’ve kind of compared to lots of the people say this is club.I belong to. I mean, I’m great. I mean, I have a relationship. I, a normal life have a job,Jeff: you know, I mean, I’d say I have a life.so I,Peter Milligan: do kind of see lots of people who are, is very, it’s a very rare condition, but I thought,Jeff: but what I wanted,Peter Milligan: what comes through in talking to people isJeff: I know it’s a cliche thatPeter Milligan: they are not completely defined by their condition.Jeff: And there were a personPeter Milligan: with this condition that said, I mean,Jeff: I know that that’s whatPeter Milligan: that’s, that’s the slogan we should have. I am not going to be defined by my condition. And that’s fantastic, but, but, but you must see some kids that you work with. I know that I see some peopleJeff: and it’s really hardPeter Milligan: to think that their life has not been. Two large part, if not completely defined by epilepsy, because it controls everything they do and everythingJeff: they [00:23:00] can do.And,Peter Milligan: and, uh, but as a person they’re still a person.Jeff: So I want itPeter Milligan: also could be this small kid, first of all, and a pretty pretty has this. He has this condition. I mean, uh, other, other people in the book have other, uh, if you like.Atypical qualities to them. There’s one there’s one. Can you find who wasJeff: abused now?That isPeter Milligan: a very different, but it’s still something which has altered him. It’s still something that, which might even define the rest of his life. Uh, uh, if, if it has a, if it was traumatized him to such aJeff: degree, so. None of us arePeter Milligan: normal. I don’t think, I don’t think it’s, I think there’s a spectrum of a normality and I think that some people existing on one edge of the spectrum and others on the other. And I think that in, in this world, in the world of tomorrow and to a much, much lesser degree inJeff: our world right now, what [00:24:00] normally is,Peter Milligan: is very difficult to say becauseJeff: we all tryPeter Milligan: to work out what.Is it, I know it’s a cliche of the newJeff: normal, but we’llPeter Milligan: try to work this new fuckingJeff: normal is it’s easy to say, butPeter Milligan: to actually experience this.Jeff: So, I mean, it’s,Peter Milligan: it’s horribly timely. but, Jeff: so I wantedPeter Milligan: to make Oscar, a kid, first of all, a person, first of all, and not every single aspect of his. was, is, Asperger’s Jeff: my, I was readingJeff: yourJeff: character of Oscar.Jeff: Also, you seem to, you, you gave, telepathy to, is that something that between twins or is that something that’s going to be, she has been a greater aspect of this character. Peter Milligan: Well, I mean, look it’s own. I wanted, I wanted to highlight just how close these two people were, Jeff: That not only are they twinsPeter Milligan: and they have all the, um, they have all the, uh,Jeff: twinPeter Milligan: this have twins.I was in Brazil, last year and I was talking to some twins and, Jeff: they’re just reallyPeter Milligan: amazing talking to them. [00:25:00] And they were not, it looks very similar. They are quite identical. ThereJeff: were just, it was really interesting talkingPeter Milligan: to them. And, and I wanted, I knew I wanted to use something with twins, also worked on the screenplay once a.The surprise spots didn’t get made, but, um, itJeff: can with twinPeter Milligan: social. We were interestedJeff: I wanted, I wantedPeter Milligan: Oscar to have this person who, who, uh, he was incredibly close to and who’d been apart from, was a new thing to him.Jeff: So I wantedPeter Milligan: him to be, youJeff: know, to be a writerPeter Milligan: is to be called your characters.Cause you want your characters to be.Jeff: On a knife edge. You want yourPeter Milligan: account innovative? You know,Jeff: it’s in thosePeter Milligan: situations of extremists of, of, on a knife edge, teachJeff: on the edge, I think that’s whenPeter Milligan: you find out stuff about them, on stuff about people. so I wanted him to be really close to his twin sister, who he was because of this pandemic separated from, Jeff: and I wanted one white.Peter Milligan: So one way to, One way to [00:26:00] highlight, highlight their closeness is to have a kind of telepathic bond. I know that’s a bit of a cliche between twins, but I think it can exist. And I think it’s possible that it could exist in some form. It’s also a really good, a really good PR drag device to be able to have these two people in differentJeff: parts of the world, different partsPeter Milligan: of the country talking.Jeff: so, so I wantedPeter Milligan: just to.Jeff: The driverPeter Milligan: the story is that, article is trying to be reunited with his twin. AndJeff: there’s some wayPeter Milligan: to be reunited with his team. Twin is to be reunitedJeff: with a world that is no more awardPeter Milligan: that you understand and. And everything will be okay again, of course. Jeff: Yeah. And I think you’re yourJeff: strongest gift in this series. I mean, don’t get me wrong. The arts to test theJeff: stories, but it has is that your characters are so real feeling, genuine, feeling like, um, one other like another character. Peter Milligan: What do you send in some ways? This is one of the genius things about it.Jeff: I think it’s extremely [00:27:00] genius. I mean, it is. IJeff: remember I was looking up information about you and the amount of times the words legend icon popped up.It definitely demonstrates it inJeff: writing.Jeff: I mean, I knew you from hell blaze and I knew you from red lanterns, but I also like, and it was interesting that you keep the word icon, you know, the, I conic Peter Milligan so forth and so on. Then you read the story. You’re like, damn, it’sJeff: right there as well. He’s anotherJeff: series and you can see the richness of the characters. The, tangibleness of the world that he created and it works, it works fantastically. So yeah, those will learn comments. Peter Milligan: Oh, I was really happy with the story and I think obviously the pandemic coming as it did as if you don’t have bifurcated.the publication of, of the comment in the first few came out, I think now has been a gap. So, Jeff: so, soPeter Milligan: I’m not quite sure when it’s going to finish, butJeff: it’s good stuff. I thinkPeter Milligan: I was really happy with it. I was really happyJeff: with the artwork, Peter Milligan: and you know, I mean, having, having, having a comic series delayed because of the pandemic [00:28:00] in the great scheme of things, it’s not a huge a Hill of beans, but it’s obviously it breaks it upJeff: and it is, it wasPeter Milligan: an uncanny, when this came out, but it wasn’t, farsightedness on my part. I was, I mean, most of these stories set in the future, much more about today. And the story was about, today was about, these people and it was about. Jeff: whetherPeter Milligan: or not, this stuff that humankind does to each other and dust to the planet is kind of like messed up by alum, screwed up a quality that we have, whether or not it exists in kids.And if the kids weren’t there, it was still happening. And this was one of the little driver’s door themes. Jeff: Yeah, I do realize the 30 minutes is up my pastor. Just a few more questionsJeff: or there was a rough ballpark. All right.Jeff: Cool. Cool. Because one of the things I did want to hit it, [00:29:00] once again, I’ve been so fascinated with your seriesJeff: is I likeJeff: the contrast with the character of Nate and Nate, someone who at least, um, On when you first seen Nandy first understand Nate, he seemsJeff: be a character who hasJeff: all the benefits.I mean, you look at Oscar who is dealing with autism and, and all the difficulty that comes with that. Then you look at Nate who on paper should have all the benefits of life. He’s wealthy. He’s, doesn’t seem to have any major issues unless you’re looking at hostility as being an atypical behaviorJeff: and what he isJeff: what heJeff: becomes, and amount of violenceJeff: comes out of him.Seems like an interestingJeff: commentary about.Jeff: The idea of, maybe nurture versus maybe, nature. Maybe the idea of having everything from can achieve is a process of creating these kinds of negative behaviors, you know? and I just get idea of what your sense of that was. Peter Milligan: Yeah. And I think it’sJeff: also, it also shows the, uh, The foolhardinessPeter Milligan: of, of quickly, uh, teaming someone [00:30:00] or laboring someone who’s normal or not normalJeff: though.You just never know. I mean, um, I, I know, um,Peter Milligan: uh, a psychologist, he works with the prisoners in, uh, in prisons and,Jeff: up PPeter Milligan: he was originally from and he’s, he’s a black guy, uh, Uh, and, uh, obviously really smart guy psychologist. And, uh,Jeff: he, he, um,Peter Milligan: he wants to,Jeff: delve before,Peter Milligan: before he came to this country, he was dealing, he was working in developer and he dealt with this patient and this patient was a white Zimbabwe.And you would look on the outside black Zimbabwean, you know, it just, was involved in your instant. Your instinct would be that, that. The black Vincent Barbara and his cell phone. And because of what’s happened, what’s happened toJeff: the, uh, the, uh,Peter Milligan: blacks in, uh, in a, in a symbolic way.Jeff: And the whitePeter Milligan: guy is the guy who hasJeff: all the privilegesPeter Milligan: and he’s been lucky in life.Well, actually, my, my friend, he came from a [00:31:00] really strong family. It was really kind of like family that, encouraged him to be educated and a really strong family bond and a really happy childhood in this, this white guy. he had a. I kind of like a disaster of a childhood abuse, sexual and violence, and it was just, it messed him up for his entire life.AndJeff: I always thought thatPeter Milligan: was quite interesting, you know, taking things up how you can take things at face value and you dig a little bit deeper. And that was in the sense that the idea with Nate that on the surface, he’s this, he goes to this, uh, expensive, uh, Privates, uh, when this country was, I guess you’d say a privateJeff: school is expensive private school, his dadPeter Milligan: really rich and, ,Jeff: of a ball breakingPeter Milligan: CEO.And he’s kind of like, he’s a kind of, um, he’s a little master of the universe in the making and, um, and, and he plays soccer, uh, Monte that’s. Okay.and so he,Jeff: he looksPeter Milligan: like one of the people who would inherit the world cause he’s going to be in control. Jeff: also thesePeter Milligan: kinds of like, but he’s messed [00:32:00] up and he’s, uh, and he hasn’t got the condition thatJeff: OscarPeter Milligan: has, but he has another thing that makes him, uh, if you like, no, no, no, uh, atypical, he’s got something which, which brings into a pretty dark, dark place.And, um,Jeff: No, he is,Peter Milligan: uh, he’s a messed up kid and he is abandoned kid and they,they conduct some really brutal, uh, almost ritualistic soccer, themed, uh, elementsJeff: of, uh, violence, which I suppose is, uh, has elements of LordPeter Milligan: of the flies and elements of a proper orange, uh, in, uh,Jeff: but, um,Peter Milligan: But we find out what caused some of his darkness and, and, and Oscar has, uh, has this condition by thatJeff: the book,Peter Milligan: but he’s got this sister who he loves and weJeff: get the feelingPeter Milligan: that we never meet them, uh, that his family was already loving a strong family,Jeff: but we meetPeter Milligan: his mother who was, uh, who was obviously really loving [00:33:00] woman.So.Jeff: It’s complicatedPeter Milligan: this stuff. And I guess I wanted to dig into the complication.Jeff: I mean, yeah, I mean, that’s great because like I said, all of our, everyone hasJeff: those complex complications. We talked about being like normal, atypical and typical whatnot. And we all do have those aspects of ourselvesJeff: thatJeff: does complicate who we are.And many ways I would say we all have. I’m a complicated psychology. And as you see through Nate or I was, or anyoneJeff: else, it doesn’t necessarilyJeff: come maybe with a genetic aspect, but it comes with an experience. And I think one interesting thing as well is when you talk about the tyranny of the playground, um, andJeff: someone who like myself,Jeff: who used to be picked on all theJeff: time on theJeff: playground, I must admit, I probably met him, met my share, my fair share of Nate’s.And I will say that those experiences on the playground do last with you and have their own damaging effects. 10, 20, 30 years down the road, you do notice it. And I was wondering, you know, that was part of it as well. Um, so your experience, you know, were you on that side of the playground as [00:34:00] well, where you dealt with Nate’s?Jeff: I wasn’t,Peter Milligan: uh, Nate,Jeff: uh, IPeter Milligan: I think I was quite, uh, a Naty either. Um,Jeff: uh, no, I think I was,Peter Milligan: I think I, uh, I was kind of not an obvious, pretty target,Jeff: But nor was I a bully?Peter Milligan: I mean, I think I kind of quite had a sympathy for people being a pixel owner. I think I was quite sensitive kid. AndJeff: then when I was, when I was young kid,Peter Milligan: uh, IJeff: had a apostle,Peter Milligan: I could I’d have the operation straight in my eyes.And so before the operation came in, of course you’ll pick down, uh, So I kind of, you know, I was, I was raised on, on a, on a,Jeff: on board,Peter Milligan: you callJeff: a project.Peter Milligan: So you kind of, uh, you know, big family. So you kind of see kind of get big, rough and tumble. So you kind of, uh, You kind of get used to looking after yourself a bit.And I remember coming home from school and, uh, these three kids kind of came up me. [00:35:00] They were from a different block and they came up to me to kind of back me up a bit.Jeff: And I looked upPeter Milligan: toJeff: the window. IPeter Milligan: could see window, my flat, my apartment. I could see my mom and my, um,Jeff: two of my brothers lookingPeter Milligan: and they weren’t doing anything.They were just water soon. I think they were kind of a, I was, I did. Okay. As he normally was this kid stuff, you know, you can have like, so, uh, I think when you grow up in that situation,Jeff: kind ofPeter Milligan: learned toJeff: scrap a bit,Peter Milligan: but because I had this, uh, foresight push, they substrate and up as an operation, but before they did, you kind of, it kind of gives you a sympathy on empathy with people who are being picked on.Jeff: particularly people kept with,Peter Milligan: physical disabilities or whatever, you Jeff: know, would you say someone like Nate is an issue is a lack of empathy, or do you think it’s, are you going to go with something deeperJeff: or.Peter Milligan: deeper? I think, well, I think he has a lack of empathy. I think that, I think that empathy is [00:36:00] a place you can’t.Afford to go to. Cause I think he’s so damaged. I think he doesn’t have to prove himself. He can’t bring himself to, uh, go to go there. Jeff: I said,Jeff: I think that’s fantastic. I do like the idea that you’re making him more of a, um,Jeff: dynamic character. Then maybe often somebody would go probably the easier route and make him, you know, a straight villain type character.But the fact that you’reJeff: making him seem.Jeff: um, more sympathetic or you’re going to make him seem more sympathetic. I think it’s a fantastic direction to go in.Jeff: Yeah. I mean, lookPeter Milligan: sympathetic. I think that, but he’s a product of his father. It’s a product of what’s happened to him.Jeff: So I think thatPeter Milligan: that’s not to say that he won’t do and sayJeff: uh,Peter Milligan: despicable things, but I think that, um,Jeff: He’sPeter Milligan: not this block of wood that was necessarily create a evil.I don’t know if I believe in evil. I think that people do evil things. Uh, I’m not quite sure whether there,Jeff: therePeter Milligan: exists, uh, [00:37:00] force called evil that wants around and pick some people. Uh,Jeff: so I thinkPeter Milligan: that. Stuff is done to people. I mean, if you look a lot of, a lot of, uh, kids and young peopleJeff: who are, I think, I think there’s aPeter Milligan: statistic about people whoJeff: were in prison arePeter Milligan: inclusion for violent crime, the percentage of them who have been, uh, abused sexually or physically abused when they were kids.It’s extraordinary. It’s just so high. And it’s like,Jeff: you mess upPeter Milligan: these kids and they’re kind of like the WT people don’t really need the society. It doesn’t really. Look out for them, they get completely screwed up. And then since IJeff: isPeter Milligan: shocked and horrified, when that kid turns around to be a little bit of a monster,Jeff: and NatePeter Milligan: is a bit of a monster.Jeff: I mean, it’s interesting when you look at, um, we talked aboutJeff: like the future of the next generation in many ways, like, you know, we’re, we honestly have our faith in the next generation and our prospects are in the next generation. But as theJeff: generation,Jeff: we go ever way to screw those kids up with budgets, gonna be possible [00:38:00] for they get there. Peter Milligan: They fuck you up your mum and dad as,Jeff: this, butPeter Milligan: but the Philip Larkin poem, I don’t know how known it is in, uh, in America, but in Britain, it’s almost a clicheof childhood, uh, repel in, they fuck you up because it’s a problem that people know because it’s got such a. Abboud first line, you know? Jeff: Yeah. And, well, I do wanna talk about American Roy in a moment, but what I do want to stop and just ask if we’re talking about ideas of empathy and what we talked about earlier with Trump and some of this other stuff, it does seem like there is.Jeff: anJeff: empathy gaps that some people do have, do you think it truly is empathy gaps or do you thinkJeff: even when you look at some, likeJeff: what’s going on with say Trump and some of that other issues, it’s something more deep seated with them as well that we’re in that’s too easy to justJeff: say, well, the lack, theseJeff: aspects, Peter Milligan: that’s, you know,Jeff: that’s almost a bitPeter Milligan: beyond my pay grade.I mean, it’s like what I’m trying to do in this story and get the story is, um, [00:39:00] is to try to create real characters that will. Things happen to them in the past. And, and how do they, and how do they operateJeff: in, uh,Peter Milligan: in this situation, which have given them, uh,Jeff: empathy gaps will clearly people,Peter Milligan: there are people who have absolutely no empathy.How did this come about?Jeff: is,Peter Milligan: you know, whether it’s genetic,Jeff: whether it’s, uh,Peter Milligan: caused by abuse,Jeff: or on, I, we hadPeter Milligan: a, an article once, well, of kids growing up into the bad, the bad and destructive one might say un-empathetic behavior. There areJeff: kids who arePeter Milligan: beaten when they were babies, ended up being less screwed up in kids that were just ignored, remarkable that somehow there’s a lack of love or a lack of attention or this stuff.Oh, what the fuck next about up somehow is more damaging to us [00:40:00] thenJeff: beingPeter Milligan: what we would say, abused, um, you know, wow. Yeah, but as I say, that’s,Jeff: uh,Peter Milligan: that’s a, that’s a world of our research was shut them. Stay up is not my job, but what we can do as a great people is to create characters that seem recognizable andJeff: explore how and why they are the way they are and how theyPeter Milligan: act in these situations. Jeff: That’s a great, great answer. How long is the series expected to be tomorrow?Jeff: Oh,Peter Milligan: I think it’s six episodes, but relied. And then under normal circumstance.Jeff: wPeter Milligan: What we’re hoping for is do the first six episodes,Jeff: uh,Peter Milligan: uh, episode was first storyline andJeff: hePeter Milligan: gets Oscar. To us. This is a spoiler, the spoiler countries. I thinkJeff: We get to aPeter Milligan: certain placeJeff: Uh, it’s certainlyPeter Milligan: the end of his [00:41:00] journey, but it’s a certain place in his journey with, soJeff: feel as though there’s beenPeter Milligan: a completeness in, um, in the first storyline, but I’ve got other storylines that I want to go out and hopefully with a fair windJeff: andPeter Milligan: the grace of God, uh, behind us, uh, we, um, we’ll get to do another silver liner.Jeff: Well, I definitely hope so.Jeff: I mean, like I said, I love the story and the thing I was wondering about is American Ronan. Now, how far along are you in this issue being produced from AWA?Jeff: Well,Peter Milligan: looks amazing and I think I’m really happy with it. Uh, uh,Jeff: yeah, so it’s,Peter Milligan: it’s been done. Uh, and, uh, the artist I think is on episode four or five,Jeff: I mean, uh, when he’s coming out.Peter Milligan: Who fucking knows.Jeff: have to ask the guys AWA, he looks amazing. I’m really happyPeter Milligan: with it. And they say really strong, interesting, um, [00:42:00] uh, storied,Jeff: very different.Peter Milligan: If I may say it’s really interesting. What’s interesting is we were talking about empathy.Empathy is, is at the heart of American moaning becauseJeff: for reasons whichPeter Milligan: will come become a power when you read the story, which of course you will, this guy has, um, increased oil, exaggerated ability to empathize withJeff: the people we did that.Peter Milligan: After wanting to kill one form or challenge in some way, uh, Leah’s some has been done to his brain.You can see I’m quite interested in stuff being done to brains,Jeff: uh, which allows himPeter Milligan: to have deep, deep empathy with his character so that heJeff: knowsPeter Milligan: what his Countess thinking, uh, feeling might do in the future. Uh, but to. But to get this level of empathy, he has to getJeff: if you like a,Peter Milligan: a sample [00:43:00] from us from the person is his target.Jeff: For example,Peter Milligan: some DNA. Then he has to kind of do a mixed up and inject it and then he can.Jeff: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.Peter Milligan: It’s dark stuff. SoJeff: like, for example, if you’re, if you’rePeter Milligan: following somebody you’re trying to, you know, and you’re trying to find out more about this person,Jeff: who isPeter Milligan: this person a really, where, what is this, what is this weak spot?What is this clinker? It is. If the Dharma, he might kind of like go into a restaurant, going to the restaurant where this guy has been eating and. ToJeff: pick up thePeter Milligan: utensils that he’s been using or the chopsticks he he’s been using, take them home and swap them. And then you’ve got, you’ve got DNS book. Jeff: It seems like an incredible burden though, to take that much empathy from other, you know, to absorb that muchJeff: um,Jeff: feelings from other people.That’s an incredible burden to take onto yourself. I mean, turn off, take your own feelings. Peter Milligan: Yeah, I think he, I think there’s that, I think there’s a line you have to walk. The, um, two marks and I think you have a empathy overload and, and yeah, and you become almost, you become almostJeff: you almost becomePeter Milligan: almost [00:44:00] subsumed beneath the personality and the feelings and theJeff: fears and the likes and.Peter Milligan: of our office target.But that’s part of, part of, part of the story is about trying to get that balance. But anyways,Jeff: they’re really great stories. It has a JamesPeter Milligan: Bond element to it inJeff: the.Peter Milligan: It’s lots of interesting, kind of like, uh, exotic locations though. There’s fighting and car chases, but our heart is this guy whoJeff: um,Peter Milligan: has his ability to empathize with other peopleJeff: to a reallyPeter Milligan: deep level.And how you just that, uh, how he uses that to. Do we ask to do Jeff: it, that must make it hard for him to do what he has to do when he has to feel for these people. I mean,Jeff: could they become real forJeff: him? They’re not just targets anymore. Peter Milligan: That is the balance he has to do it, which I think yes, ofJeff: course take tooPeter Milligan: much of it.And. Yeah, you go, you become them. And in some very realJeff: way.Jeff: Um, th th when is this going to be part of the connected universe started in resistance on AWS, or is this gonna be a [00:45:00] separate series connected to it? Peter Milligan: Actually, I’m, uh, I’m doing something else for the connected universe, because I can’t talk about yet, but it’s going to be great.And, uh, I’m really excited about that,Jeff: It’s been,Peter Milligan: it’s been slightly paused by, uh, academic. Uh, but I’m doing something else for them, which is going to be connected to that, uh, resistance universe. Jeff: please take a look atPeter Milligan: it from a completely different point of view. And so it’s going to be quite a different take on that are on the, uh, world and tone, certainly, uh, slightly more me and certainly anymore.Jeff: Yeah.Peter Milligan: So anyway, I can’t talk about that yet. I’ve been told not to talk about that yet because I’ve written the first episode, but it’s still in its early stages. And, uh, And I know it’s going to be important for a bit,Jeff: but American running,Peter Milligan: I think it’s amazing. I think it’s a,Jeff: I’m really happy with it. The artworkPeter Milligan: is a C O Oh, I think that the Garmin is still about.[00:46:00] He uses the uses is strange. He used the strings of, uh, nonJeff: taproom,Peter Milligan: which was always forgetJeff: is AOC or ACO. Well, yeah, when, when we do,Jeff: we, we do an intro before the interview. We always can do a shout out to him.Jeff: we’llJeff: we’ll look it up,Jeff: but we’ll tryJeff: to, Peter Milligan: that’s not his real name.Jeff: But yeah,Peter Milligan: but anyway, he’s amazing and it is just amazingly, amazingly modern and, uh, and it’s fantastic.somebody’s happy about that, but look, it’s been really great talking to you. How about when, you know, when, when, it comes out. I’d love to talk to, again about, your reactions to it.Jeff: And whether you thinkPeter Milligan: elements of genius to that, as you thought there was in a store,Jeff: I’m sure. I’m sure there mostJeff: will be when IJeff: read will be like, there’s, there’s theJeff: right there.I found it on page five. Peter Milligan: Yeah. Jeff: Yeah. I mean, like I said, you’ve been absolutely fantastic to talk to. I do, like, I do hope we do talk some more when the issues come out, hopefully they do come. I know I’m with. [00:47:00] Um, release days and diamond, everything else, everything is in panic mode.Unfortunately Peter Milligan: that on that point, I do think that this stuffJeff: willPeter Milligan: come out again. I think the winnerJeff: when, um, we are openPeter Milligan: there,Jeff: and I think we will get over it, whoever changed we are.Peter Milligan: And I think that we’ll be living with it rather than being over completely. But, but I think that when we’re kind of up and up it again, and the world text on something like a more normal, um,Jeff: Uh, shape.I mean, I think people are going to be very hungry for storiesPeter Milligan: and causeJeff: stories.Peter Milligan: I mean, it’s the way that we do talk about ourselves. It’s the way we try to understand ourselves. So I think that there’s goingJeff: be a realPeter Milligan: hunger for, um, for stories for comics,Jeff: TV showsPeter Milligan: forJeff: allPeter Milligan: that good stuff, poems, all that good stuff.The up is what makes us human. So I am very confident that when this is over the, um,Jeff: Or thesePeter Milligan: comics that will be [00:48:00] missing, uh, will be, uh, Winging that way to the comic stores. Jeff: It’s just so unfortunateJeff: that AOL AWA launchedJeff: like a month before diamond shut down. It wasJeff: just a badJeff: timing. It’s Peter Milligan: a terrible timing for them because all the expensive launches and then nothingJeff: It’s a reallyPeter Milligan: bad time for them, Jeff: because you would like to thinkJeff: that while there areJeff: hot and popular, because when does it, as soon as something launches, that’s where the most, that’s the peak of attention.Usually something has, and to have it. Maybe shut down by diamond. It’s just, hopefully they figured out how to move around thatJeff: it’s reallyPeter Milligan: itself, but it’s like seeing a really pretty girl in a, in a party that you’ve liked for a long time. And you finally, and you finallyJeff: pulled up thePeter Milligan: boot up the nerve to go and say to her, you have this opening line that you wanted toJeff: use and he Polish it and it gives this opening line.Peter Milligan: And then the light bulbs blow up andJeff: we’ll go back to it. And she says, okay, so what [00:49:00] should youPeter Milligan: say again? Jeff: It kills the momentum. 100% kills that momentum, but I hope we talked to ’em. We were looking have to talk to Jay , how you pronounce the guy’s nameJeff: And it was,Jeff: his. I hope itJeff: works.Jeff: And I hope AWS has already figured out how to adapt into this gap of attention to comic books.Peter Milligan: So I think, I think they’re gonna be okay. I think, I think that, to be honest, I think one or two of the smaller independents might fall by the wayside. Uh, I thinkJeff: there’s inevitable.Peter Milligan: when we, as, as businesses in every sector are gonna fall by the wayside.Jeff: but I thinkPeter Milligan: that the ones that do survive will find that there’s a real hunger for, uh, his stuff. Jeff: Well, like I said, when I saw ADW looks fantastic and I can’t wait to see what you’ve got, I want to see American Ronan come out soon. I hope to see, um, so, um,Jeff: just not distribution, but a release dateJeff: I hope so. It’s I can start looking atJeff: it. Well, [00:50:00] there’s talk that it doesPeter Milligan: cause the, I have other stuff which.Because of our, uh, uh, the parents I can’t talk about, but, um, hopefully we’ll beJeff: seeing that of day when, uh, when, uh, when this crazy war is over.Jeff: Yeah. Most certainly. And like I said, I thank you so much for sitting with me for as long as you have. It wasJeff: great talking to you andJeff: I just wish I could talkJeff: about.Jeff: we had time to talk about them, the old stuff that you, red lanterns and the Hellblade, which I have loved for so many years.Peter Milligan: Yeah. Let’s, let’s, let’s get a date to talk about all that stuff. another time. Oh, I’ve got to do that. I took about some of your stuff Jeff: in India, and I said, thank you so much for sharing your genius with me.you so much, sir, for being awesome.
Hey Hey! Today is special, instead of an interview we have John, Kenric, and Jeff who all have comics floating out there for you to enjoy. John created an anthology called the Eynes Anthology, Kenric has a story therein called Nancy Eynes Krampus Killer, and Jeff has a new mini series thats out called Malek the Reigning Devil. A new story called Rider of the West is discussed and we go over what this all means. Seriously hope you enjoy! Find out about Eynes Anthology here: http://eynesanthology.com/ https://www.storenvy.com/products/25745040-eynes-anthology-book-one Order Malek the Reigning Devil here: https://indyplanet.com/malek-reigning-devil-1 Find out more on Rider of the West here: http://scpod.net/rider-of-the-old-west-a-conceptual-idea-by-john-and-kenric/ “Drinks and Comics with Spoiler Country!” https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC25ZJLg6vL4jjRgC1ebshCA Did you know we have a YouTube channel? https://youtube.com/channel/UCstl1UHQVUC85DrCagF-wuQ Follow us on Social Media: http://facebook.com/spoilercountry/ http://twitter.com/spoiler_country http://instagram.com/spoilercountry/ Kenric: http://twitter.com/XKenricX John: http://twitter.com/y2cl http://instagram.com/y2cl/ http://y2cl.net http://eynesanthology.com Casey: https://twitter.com/robotseatguitar https://thecomicjam.com/ Buy John’s Comics! http://y2cl.net/the-store/ Support us on Patreon: http://patreon.com/spoilercountry Interview scheduled by Jeffery Haas https://twitter.com/jhaasinterviews Theme music by Good Co Music: https://www.goodcomusic.com/
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Creator Details

Episode Count
648
Podcast Count
1
Total Airtime
3 weeks, 4 days