14 Minutes of SaaS - founder stories on business, tech and life Podcast Image

14 Minutes of SaaS - founder stories on business, tech and life

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A Business, Management and Marketing podcast featuring Stephen Cummins
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Listen to wisdom from the true champions of SaaS. Stephen Cummins interviews founders of hyper-growth SaaS ScaleUps. Interviews are conducted face to face at major tech events in Dublin, Lisbon, Berlin, Hong Kong & New Orleans (no remote calls). We examine the personal histories, learnings & opinions of the world’s most successful SaaS StartUp entrepreneurs. And because they speak at these major events, they have strong communication skills. Stephen ensures that the core topic is the founder he's interviewing, and not just the current rocket ship the founder is helping scale.
We cover most of these in each episode; short life history, the WHY, day in the life, personal motivations (many are financially secure), personal attributes leading to success, weaknesses, what makes the current SaaS company special & successful, advice for entrepreneurs, opinion on the future of work & future tech, what they’d do if they walked away, work-life balance, the city they work in, distributed or remote teams v co-located or in-office teams.
Lend us your ears for less than 1% of one day in your week to gain a deeper understanding of the cutting edge of SaaS, as well as insights into the human stories behind it all.
We’re interviewing the true champions of SaaS – from giants to exciting scale-ups. They will share their ups and downs, their vision of the future of human experience, how they approach innovation and sales execution, and how they stay grounded while driving extraordinary success in the cloud. If you’ve ever toyed with the idea of becoming an entrepreneur (or if you are on that road already), join us!
“To dare is to loose one’s footing momentarily. Not to dare is to lose oneself.” Soren Kierkegaard

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Recent Episodes

E52: David Darmanin – Founder & CEO of Hotjar – 2 of 2 – Pragmatism before Passion
Concluding half of a 2 part series, David Darmanin – Founder & CEO of Hotjar talks with Stephen Cummins at Dublin’s SaaStock about his passion for building 100% distributed companies and the importance he places on self awareness and building on one’s strengths. He advises entrepreneurs to avoid what he calls the passion fallacy when building companies – it will protect them from building stuff that they are passionate about, but that people don’t need. He also lists some great books that he mandates all new employees to read when they join the company. Transcript David Darmanin   I advise … I speak to a lot of young startups and people starting up and I’d say easily 80 or 90 percent of the reason why they end up failing is they made the I did right? They have this great idea … driven typically out of their passion. And I wrote a blog post about this – the passion fallacy which is your passion drives you to do something because you love it, but no one wants it, right? So its important to think about that. Stephen Cummins Welcome to 14 minutes of SaaS. The show where you can listen to the stories and opinions of founders of the world’s most remarkable SaaS ScaleUps. In this the second and final part of our chat with David Darmanin, CEO and Cofounder of Hotjar, he talks about his passion for building 100 percent distributed companies … which are 100 percent remote working.  The importance he places on self-awareness and building on one strengths. And he mentions some great books that he mandates all new employees to read when they join the company. Stephen Cummins Bringing you back to the remote piece … any recommendations for a company that wants to build like that? … build a team like that? David Darminan There aren’t that many actually … and in fact, that’s why I said … after Hotjar …  I’m planning to write a book. Or maybe we start working on that now. I get so many questions about this. And there’s so many things that we’ve learned … and we’ve interacted with so many other companies that do remote ….  from Automattic to Basecamp. We’ve talked about how they do it, and don’t. So there’s so many learnings that we need to be sharing. I’d say the first tip –  more than anything  – is if you have parts of team in one location and you’re thinking of remote as an add-on to that to expand your possibilities, don’t. That’s not gonna work. In my opinion experience, mixing remote with non-remote doesn’t work very well. Mainly because it creates the ‘Us and Them’ culture – and you feel left out. So it’s critical that you avoid this situation – and the reality is human nature. If you’re jumping on a call or a Zoom with a headset … and on the other end, there’s six people in the room, but you don’t really feel like you’re part of the team. And that very early on creates the separation. So unless you’re willing to have everyone with a headset on joining a call separately, then probably remote is not the ideal ….  if you really truly want to invest in this, right? To me remote is everyone individually connected together right? It’s not adding a team on to an existing company in a separate location – that is not remote. Stephen Cummins Is that because part of that means that you’d almost have 2 tiers of people and the remote people are kind of – you never quite get your head around how to work with them – because you’re so used to interacting in situ? …  yeah, okay. That’s fascinating . David Darminan It’s about culture, right? This is really, really important to not create that divide. Stephen Cummins And is it a is it easier to scale … if you’re working in this way … is it much more challenging if they’re working out of the house … or if you have like twos and threes and fours and pods of offices around the place. What works better? David Darminan Yeah. I think it all depends on the culture, the values of the company, the culture of the people. I guess leaders who prefer the more command mode will struggle with remote, right? So it works best when you are a more transparent, trusting, open leader. Not everything is made to work for everyone, right? So there are situations where it’s not ideal. So there are many different formats you can have – with different pods and everything. But what we’ve found is that what’s worked really well for us – and the more I speak to people with challenges – this is kind of feels like what would help them …. . it’s that we do not distinguish between you and like this country and that country … when I speak to someone, it’s probably this global citizen thing I have in my mind. Like I don’t think of them in that way. That’s just like a detail. It’s the equivalent of what clothes they like to where and this is the country they like to live in. When we connect digitally, we’re just there … we’re in the Hotjar-sphere and that’s it. So we don’t think beyond that. Stephen Cummins It’s fascinating to hear it David because so many people will tell you that, you know, they build a remote team …. sometimes for cost reasons, sometimes for other reasons, sometimes just because they can’t find people where they are as it’s so competitive. And they always say … get an office and get eight or nine of them and get that one amazing person that will … but it’s fascinating to listen to someone who has scaled such a successful company for people working at home or working out of their own office or whatever … all around the planet. David Darmanin And the reality is that it will work for some companies to have one office and have a leader and just own that, right. It will work. It all depends what is your objective. Are you just trying to make a quick buck and you need that team. Or are you trying to scale up a culture or an organization, right? So it depends what your objectives are. Stephen Cummins How many people are there in Hotjar now? David Darmanin We’re 70 team members. Stephen Cummins Wow…across how many countries? David Darmanin 17 Stephen Cummins Any tips that you would give to somebody considering starting up a business themselves – whether they’re in the middle of a corporate job or they’re coming out of university? What are the two or three things you’d do if you were going back in time? David Darmanin Looking back in my mistakes and failures, I’d say the one most important thing is to not start with the product… start with the market! And it took me a very long time to understand this. A great book to read about this because we don’t have much time is the ‘22 Immutable Laws of Marketing’. It’s by the people who wrote ‘Positioning’. So it’s all about understanding that at the end of the day you need to be a brand that owns a position in the minds of your market … and you need to start from there. And then build a product for that. And obviously typically your idea of what to build and how to take this position comes from your experience. So I’m not saying you should go and find a hole in the market – but more than anything validate your idea against that, right? I advise … I speak to a lot of young startups and people starting up and I’d say easily 80 or 90 percent of the reason why they end up failing is they made the I did right? They have this great idea … driven typically out of their passion. And I wrote a blog post about this – the passion fallacy which is your passion drives you to do something because you love it, but no one wants it, right? So its important to think about that. Stephen Cummins Do you have any inner superpower … or one or two superpowers that you know …  they’re your strong points, they’re the things that have helped you be successful? Would you mind sharing what they might be? David Darmanin Yeah. And in fact, we actually know at Hotjar everyone’s strengths. We… we do something called the Strengths Finder. Okay. Which is basically a small book with a survey embedded in it – with a link to the survey
E51: David Darmanin – Founder & CEO of Hotjar – 1 of 2 – 4 O’Clock in the Morning
The remarkable story of Dr. David Darmanin’s startup awakening at 4 o clock in the morning in Malta that led to the founding of Hotjar – software used by marketers, product managers and UX designers that helps you rapidly understand your customers with website session replay, heatmaps, analytics, surveys, and in session questioning. David talks about his business to Stephen Cummins in SaaStock. It had 60K sign-ups in the 1st 6 months and is now used by over 350K companies  in 184 countries. It’s a 100% distributed (in other words fully remote working) company with 90 employees spread across 20 countries and its current revenue run rate is north of 22M USD per annum. David found a market need very quickly. Transcript Part 1 David Darmanin Probably the most special moment, 2 or 3 of these startups in ….  I was reading a book in bed and it was 4 o clock in the morning (or 5 o clock in the morning). I had woken up early. And I was reading, I know it sounds like a horrible name for a book, but it’s called the Fast Lane Millionaire. It’s a really good book actually … because it goes beyond just making money … it talks what are the key human elements you need in order to succeed beyond just money. It’s a catchy name. It’s not that type book. And I remember I woke up my wife and I said “Listen, I’m gonna quit consulting. I’m going to speak to 2 of my co-founders in a separate business and we’re gonna merge … and we’re gonna put personal money into this. And I’m gonna think much bigger. And she was like …  just do whatever you want, but just go back to sleep!” I Have the best wife in the world. She supported me through everything so… Stephen Cummins Welcome to 14 minutes of SaaS. The show where you can listen to the stories and opinions of founders of the world’s most remarkable SaaS ScaleUps. Episode one of two with David Sarmanin, founder and CEO of Hotjar, recorded in SaaStock in Dublin. Hotjar is software that helps you rapidly understand your customers with website session replay, heatmaps, analytics, surveys, and in session questioning. It’s a 100% distributed (in other words fully remote working) company with 90 employees spread across 20 countries and its current revenue run rate is north of 22M USD per annum. David found a market need very quickly. It had 60K sign-ups in the 1st 6 months.  It is now is used by over 350K companies  in 184 countries. 96% of employees on glassdoor would recommend it to a friend and David has a strong 95% approval rating as CEO.   …. David, it’s great to see you here in Saastock! David Darmanin Great to be meeting you here! Stephen Cummins Thank you. Can you tell me your life in 90 seconds or so …. right up to the point where you founded Hotjar. David Darmanin 90 seconds. Okay. Born Australia. Move to Malta. Feel like citizen of the world because I’ve travelled around. Studied law. That was kind of a waste of time I thought. I then saw a software company – Swedish – looking for someone to optimize millions of pages. I was like ‘Cool .. this sounds interesting!’. I left the startup I was working on to work with them. And yeah, I learned so much there. Met my co-founders. We grew the business a lot. B2C software. Did six years of that. Learned a ton. Attended every event I could. Used every software in the industry. And, then I landed a gig with conversion rates experts in the UK. And there I was working with some of the biggest brands in the world. And it was scary and awesome at the same time. Learned a lot from that. And realised that the software I was using – I was not the only one that wasn’t particularly happy with. It was very enterprising, very sales focused. So I thought ‘hey, I’m working on these side projects – like startups which are not taking off.’ What if instead we disrupted this market – went to my present cofounders who I’d worked with in that Swedish company. Three Maltese and two Swedes. And that’s the 5 of us. And we said ‘Let’s disrupt it together!’ Launched the beta and that was it.
E50: Dave Blake – Founder & CEO ClientSuccess – Built for CSMs by CSMs
Stephen Cummins chats with Dave Blake, founder and CEO of ClientSuccess, a SaaS startup that delivers software that helps you build lasting relationships. It’s a customer success platform, founded in Lehi Utah in 2014, that empowers SaaS companies to maximize revenue and minimize churn. After a decade in the trenches of account management and customer success, Dave decided to leave and build the solution he’d always wanted. His solution is built for CSMs by CSMs. It’s built to be easily scalable and configured easily. It has taken on modest amounts of investment capital – $6M. Qualtrics, a fellow Silicon Slopes tech company, is mentioned as possibly pre-IPO, but has since of course been acquired for the princely sum of $8B by SAP. Transcript:       Dave Blake I was there early on took care of some of our largest customers globally, then was asked to build the global enterprise and strategic teams – taking care of the top brands. I mean every brand – Microsoft and Sony an Apple and all of these, and had a great experience building and scaling that team. At the end I had about 120 CSMs managing the 400 million dollar book of business. And we were trying to do that on customer spreadsheets and dashboards and a few fields in Salesforce. So after a decade of being one of the early customer success managers. And I felt like we built a lot of best practices, I felt like, you know, it’ll be great to go and build a solution that I wish I would have had           for my team. And I left Adobe and decided to go and build a kind of a labour of love and a pursuit based on pains I felt. And build a company that I’m the founder of now which is a ClientSuccess. Stephen Cummins Welcome to 14 minutes of SaaS. The show where you can listen to the stories and opinions of founders of the world’s most remarkable SaaS ScaleUps. This is Stephen your host and in this episode I chat with Dave Blake, founder and CEO of ClientSuccess – a SaaS startup that delivers software that helps you build lasting relationships. It’s a customer success platform founded in Lehi Utah in 2014 that empowers SaaS companies to maximize revenue minimize churn. After a decade in the trenches of account management customer success, Dave decided to leave and build a solution he’d always wanted, His solution is built for CSMs by CSMs. It’s built to be easily scalable and configured just as easily. It has taken on modest amount of investment capital – just $6M dollars. Qualitrics, a fellow Silicon Slopes check companies mentioned as possible pre-ipo in the interview, but since of course it’s being acquired for the princely sum of $8B by SAP. Great to meet you Dave here in SaaS stuck for 40 minutes. It’s us. Dave Blake Yeah, that’s great to be with Stephen. Stephen Cummins Fantastic. Yeah. Could you give us a kind of a short two minute rendition of… of your life, open till the founding of ClientSuccess? Dave Blake Yeah. So a lot to… to unwind there. So I’ll just start by saying that I’m a father of 5, married to my wife for 21 years. Stephen Cummins I’m impressed already. Dave Blake Yeah. And so first and foremost, I’m proud that I’m a father and husband. And had a great professional career. Starting out I actually graduated from Brigham Young university in accounting but I’ve never done accounting for the rest of my career. I’ve been in technology consulting and technology and SaaS for most of my career. I started in tech consulting with Arthur Andersen’s business consulting group  back in the day – doing Oracle implementations. And then I made my way into SaaS for 15 plus years now. And just have had a great experience in that. Stephen Cummins That’s a long time to be in SaaS. Yeah, it’s roughly the same amount of time I’ve been in it -and not many people even in this building can say that. Dave Blake Yeah I feel fortunate to for the ride that I’ve been on … for the companies I’ve worked for and also to be a founder which I’m sure we’ll talk about as well. Stephen Cummins Oh, we will. And you’re based out in Utah. What town in Utah? Dave Blake I live in a town called pleasant Grove Utah. Just outside of Salt Lake City. We call Utah Silicon Slopes right now, because it’s a great SaaS ecosystem. But just in general, just a wonderful place to live. I lived in London for a couple of years. I lived in southern California, LA and Orange County area. But have always made my way back to Utah because you’ve got… you’ve got the mountains and skiing in the Winter and you go down south and your in Zion National Park at some of the best the most beautiful places in the world. And so we’ve, we really enjoy our time. It’s been a great place for us. Stephen Cummins You’ve got some massive companies SaaS companies up there in Salt Lake City. I’m trying to think of the one that has a huge office here … that bootstrapped it’s way until about two years ago. Dave Blake Yeah Qualtrics. They’re about to go IPO. Rumour is sometime this year. I would imagine in the next few months. And we’ve got Domo – which went IPO, InsideSales and Pluralsite. And so the SaaS ecosystem has been great and, you know, it started in Utah with WordPerfect – the better version of Word but if you remember back way back in the Wordperfect days. It was acquired by Novel and was founded in Utah. Stephen Cummins I never knew that. Dave Blake Yeah. And that’s the seed of technology in Utah. And then the next big company that had a great outcome was a company called Omniture – the leading web analytics company in the world. And Omniture went IPO and was acquired by Adobe and… and put a lot more capital back in … and a lot more innovation in the market. And then Adobe has grown there. And so you kinda have this perpetual ….  you know, some large success. That has an exit … puts more capital back in the market and fuels further innovation and startups. And that’s the history of SaaS in Utah. Stephen Cummins Speaking of innovations and Utah, one of my favorite clients is a company called Academic Innovations down in Saint George. Which of course is … I think its over 400 kilometers away from you, which is almost the length of Ireland. You know, we’re just a little under 500 kilometres – people forget how big the US is – even its the same state. And a couple of employees – at least two I know have exactly five kids. So, yeah, you guys have a lot of children. Dave Blake Yeah, we do! Stephen Cummins Quite amazing. Dave Blake And I think part of my story as well is I come from a family of seven kids. My parents had seven kids .. we had five brothers. I have five brothers. I’ve got two of them who are CEO’s as well. Another one who’s a patent attorney and another one who’s a leading marketing leader out there. And so part of my history is having a great influence and kind of having a competitive rivalry with my brothers and… and, you know, each of us trying to beat one another. And we’ve tried to be leaders wherever we are. And then that’s been a great influence on my life and my leadership style. Stephen Cummins Well ClientSuccess certainly has that leadership element to it … because you’re a strong leader in the very competitive space, which is customer success in G2 crowd. How important is that sort of validation for you as a company and how did you come to create this company? Dave Blake Yeah. I’ve created the company because during my journey with Omniture very early on … I started with Omniture in 2003 ….  and was on that journey from hyper growth to IPO to acquisition by Adobe. And then came with Adobe for another three years. So a 10 year span. I was always in what we call the account management back then … which has now become Customer Success Management or Client Success Management. I was there early on took care of some of our largest customers globally, then was asked to build the global enterprise and strategic teams – taking care of the top brands. I mean every brand – Microsoft and Sony an Apple and all of these, and had a great experience building and scaling that team. At the end I had about 120 CSMs managing the 400 million dollar book of business. And we were trying to do that on customer spreadsheets and dashboards and a few fields in Salesforce. So after a decade of being one of the early customer success managers. And I felt like we built a lot of best practices, I felt like, you know, it’ll be great to go and build a solution that I wish I would have had for my team. And I left Adobe and decided to go and build a kind of a labour of love and a pursuit based on pains I felt. And build a company that I’m the founder of now which is a ClientSuccess. And we are a  customer success management platform. We’re the solution and the tool that Customer Success Managers around the world use to manage the existing customer base and maximize that revenue. Stephen Cummins Now! For listeners who might know at a high level what customer success means … can you take us a little deeper into me customer success is? For me customer success is really understanding what a successful outcome is for your customer and then doing everything you can to make that happen – equally employee success, partner success, investor success even if you wanna take it that far ….  but really customer, employee and partner very strong. Would you agree with that definition? Dave Blake Yeah, absolutely. I think the main focus for customer success managers is to understand their customers intimately, understand their objectives, their definition of value, what their desired outcomes is a phrase that several people use. And then do whatever they can to help the customers achieve those objectives with your solution. And they’re kind of the shepherd throughout the life cycle … the post sales life cycle that helps the customer get the value. And also helps the organisation take care of that customer because it’s a team sport. We say customer success is definitely a team sport. And so, our platform drives that process and drives that visibility and ensures that there’s high retention and growth within the existing customer base. Stephen Cummins And what separates yourself from the competition because it is quite a competitive space. What makes your solution particularly special in this domain? Dave Blake Yeah, great question. So coming from the space and being in the trenches from frontline CSM to an executive … the one thing that I knew when I founded the company was I wanted to build a solution that has an amazing user experiences and simplifies the process. Because I’m a big believer that if customer success teams manage just some simple fundamentals of engagement, of proactive best practices, and those things …. that they have success. So we’ve from the very beginning built a solution that had very quick time to value. That was more configuration then hardcore implementation. That was built for CSMs by CSMs …  that they can relate to, that they felt it was easy to use. And so from a from a, from that perspective, we remove complexity. We have short implementation times and a solution that really resonates with frontline customer success managers and their leaders. Stephen Cummins So you were basically your own customers before you built the solution. Dave Blake Yeah, yeah. The funny thing about it is that it’s a very interesting space … that we use our platform every day, all day. And so I always joke when somebody becomes a customer and asks us about, you know, a feature request …  I can guarantee you that we’ve already got it on the list because we know the strengths, and we also know that some of the pain points and challenges of our platform. And we’ve identified that already. Stephen Cummins We were talking a little earlier about customer success. And as you know, I was one of the early CSMs. The interesting thing was that we were paid by sales believe it or not initially and … I left the company a couple of times … the first time to go travel around the world honeymoon with my wife for a long period of time. And, so I left as a CSM the first time. And I was part of the sales department believe it or not. I think about 6 months or 12 months later Salesforce kind of separated the two. And created a healthy tension … tension is probably not a good word. But, you know, what I mean. A healthy balance between driving forward and ensuring that you’re doing things right on the way forward. What do you think about that? For me it actually worked … but I know as a general thing across the globe it didn’t work … having the two mixed. What are your thoughts on that? Dave Blake You know that I get that question all the time – and it’s always in the context of who owns the renewal and who owns the expansion. And my answer really depends. For me the decision comes down to is how complex are your renewals and your expansion discussions? Are they involving procurement. Or are they in deep negotiations? And if so, I recommend that sales owns the renewal and expansion. If it’s very simple and easy and your customer success staff and team members can handle those conversations … and that part … even a in a simple form … then it may be okay to have customer success own it. But regardless, what I really like to foster is .…. it can have a little tension … that’s what you typically see. I really believe that if you can get sales and customer success on the same page, you clearly define roles and responsibilities. And you both look at it as … we both share … we’re both successful if the customer success manager takes care of the customer day in and day out and drives value. Like we talked about. The understanding the definition of value and drives it. And the sales rep comes in as an equal partner and takes care of the commercial side of the business. You can have some really healthy growth in that model. And I saw that at Omniture. I see that in a lot of organizations. Stephen Cummins I think to make it work … I think for that to work inside of sales domain … I think you gotta hire somebody who both is capable of getting good product knowledge and good relationships with customers. Who isn’t afraid to actually then come back after doing that good work and negotiate with them and work with them to renew and expand. And I suppose it’s about hiring for those sort of skills. Or that potential to grow into that role. What what’s your vision for clients success over the next three four years, because it looks like a space that still has a lot of growth. Dave Blake Yeah, we’re in a great space. We love this space. Customer Success Management – that title is one of the fastest growing titles in tech … and so we feel like we barely scratched the surface on our potential. We’re looking forward to continuing to be in space, leading in the space, innovating in this space. We see the customer success going beyond just B2B SaaS. You see a lot of other types of industries that are managing an existing customer base … and we want to be in the forefront of innovation and thought leadership in that regard. Stephen Cummins Now … if you were to give 1 golden or 2 golden pieces of advice to anybody looking to set up a business of their own in this magic world of SaaS – in this magic garden here in SaaStock, what are the one or two things you’d say before they jump out of that plane? Dave Blake A couple of things. Maybe I’ll give some specifics on customer success. And then I’ll talk about that as a founder? Stephen Cummins That’s all good. Dave Blake If you’re jumping out of a plane and starting customer success at your organization, I think it starts at the top. The CEO has to be bought in. And they have to look at customer success as a culture, not a department. So that’s a big advice that I have. I think is a founder … I think it’s all about hiring the right leadership – and building off leadership. And making sure they’re customer focused. Because a lot of times you focus on just SaaS and your sales … you focus on product, but it’s but those. Those are not aligned to your customer. And really understanding your customer well. And some people say don’t listen to your customers because if you do you’re going to build …. I disagree with that! I think you listen intently …  a lot of times your most vocal customers will be your best source of learning. And so embrace your most vocal local customers. Make sure all of those excellent leaders that you’ve hired are listening to your customers. And I think that’s a recipe for success. Stephen Cummins Dave Blake … It’s been a pleasure speaking with you. Thank you so much for coming up and giving us the interview here 14 minutes assess. Dave Blake All right. Thanks, Stephen. Great to be here. Stephen Cummins Thanks a million. In the next episode we stay in SaaStock in Dublin and listen to the remarkable story of Dr. David Darmanin’s startup awakening at 4 o clock in the morning in Malta that led to the founding of Hotjar – software used by marketers, product managers and UX designers that helps you rapidly understand your customers with website session replay, heatmaps, analytics, surveys, and in session questioning. It had 60K sign-ups in the 1st 6 months. And it now is used by over 350K companies  in 184 countries. Stephen Cummins You’ve been listening to 14 minutes of SaaS. Thanks to Mike Quill for his creativity and problem solving skills and to Ketsu for the music. This episode was brought to you by me, Stephen Cummins. If you enjoy the podcast, please don’t forget to share it with your network, subscribe to the series and give the show a rating.

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saasy reviewed this podcast on Sep 22nd, 2018
"Best series about major SaaS founders out there! Superb questions and answers and nice production qualities. A must for anyone interested in SaaS"
CloudyGuy reviewed this podcast on Sep 21st, 2018
"Fantastic listening. Really gets into the lives and motivations of the saas founders. Please, please do more episodes. Great interviewer, amazing guests. More please."
Alicia reviewed this podcast on Sep 21st, 2018
"Is this show still going? It's the best thing I discovered this year. The guests are incredible! So cool to hear the relaxed chats - they seem to effortlessly cover so much. It's really different to the techie hard to understand or aggressive biz talk ones. You learn much more when these people are allowed to really talk about what motivates them to build incredible things."

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Started
Feb 26th, 2018
Latest Episode
Aug 7th, 2019
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No. of Episodes
61
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15 minutes
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