Margaret Robinson Rutherford, PhD, is a clinical psychologist in private practice with more than twenty-five years of experience treating individuals and couples for depression, anxiety, and relationship issues. 

She also offers her compassionate and commonsense therapeutic style to the general public through her popular blog and podcasts, with the goal of decreasing the stigma around psychological treatment. Her podcasts and shows on perfectly hidden depression (PHD) have reached thousands, as she sheds light on this overlooked presentation of the disease.

She is also the author of PERFECTLY HIDDEN DEPRESSION: How to Break Free from the Perfectionism that Masks Your Depression. 

We wanted to speak to Margaret about a syndrome she’s identified that is increasingly common during the lockdown. Perfectionism and shame are getting in the way of people living healthy lives, especially now. Also, what may sound like bird sounds and wind chimes in the background are actually the sounds of live birds and wind chimes! Yes, we are living and recording in the natural world. 

We hope you enjoy our conversation with Dr. Rutherford. 

© 2020 Behavioral Grooves

Connect with Kurt and Tim: 

Kurt Nelson, PhD: @WhatMotivates  e-mail: [email protected] 

Tim Houlihan: @THoulihan  e-mail: [email protected] 

Lantern Group: http://lanterngroup.com/

BehaviorAlchemy: https://www.behavioralchemy.com/

Behavioral Grooves: https://behavioralgrooves.com/

Weekly Grooves: https://weeklygrooves.podbean.com/

Common Biases & Heuristics: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XHpBr0VFcaT8wIUpr-9zMIb79dFMgOVFRxIZRybiftI/edit#

Patreon Site for Behavioral Grooves: https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves

General Coronavirus Info: 

Daily Newsletter Summarizing data from Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security: http://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/newsroom/newsletters/e-newsletter-sign-up.html

CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/index.html

Great videos on the science behind this by Dr. Peter Attia – this is the first in a series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNVhLyAlfA4

What is herd immunity?: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/615375/what-is-herd-immunity-and-can-it-stop-the-coronavirus/

A list curated by [email protected] 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/11GLhX7hLf64Bxkdpv5hvYHqOjS1imlcMQFjJBJ-9oUM/edit

Coronavirus & Behavioral Science: 

Selected Links: The Behavioral Sice of Coronavirus: https://behavioralscientist.org/selected-links-the-behavioral-science-of-the-coronavirus-covid-19/

Why no one is reading your coronavirus email: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/13/opinions/coronavirus-emails-effective-messaging-rogers/index.html

Handwashing can stop a virus, so why don’t we do it?: https://behavioralscientist.org/handwashing-can-stop-a-virus-so-why-dont-we-do-it-coronavirus-covid-19/

The behavioral science of handwashing: https://think.ing.com/articles/the-behavioural-science-of-hand-washing/ 

Ideas 42: The Behavioral Side of COVID-19 here: https://ideas42.org/covid19/ 

Greater Good: https://twitter.com/GreaterGoodSC

How We Can Cope During This Crisis: 

Tip Sheet from HUMU: https://humu.com/remote-nudges/

Resources for learning at home: https://fordhaminstitute.org/national/commentary/resources-learning-home-during-covid-19-school-closures?utm_source=join1440&utm_medium=email&utm_placement=etcetera

General Behavioral Science Links: 

Common Biases and Heuristics: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XHpBr0VFcaT8wIUpr-9zMIb79dFMgOVFRxIZRybiftI/edit#

Jonathan Haidt – 5 Moral Foundations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_foundations_theory

Annie Duke’s “How To Decide”: https://www.amazon.com/How-Decide-Simple-Making-Choices/dp/0593084608

“16 Ways To Promote Hand Washing With Behavioral Science” article by Aline Holzwarth: https://www.forbes.com/sites/alineholzwarth/2020/03/25/handwashing-with-behavioral-science/#261b4b9f768d

Aline Holzwarth’s Playlist on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/0H5fsQRrqslGdBhhx8d4Aw?si=0jra0rU1Qu2vQNtqjbRvZA

Deontological and Consequential Moralities: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ethics-deontological/#DeoTheKan

Difference between descriptive and injunctive norms: https://psychology.stackexchange.com/questions/6193/whats-the-difference-between-injunctive-norms-and-descriptive-norms

Emotion Research from FinalMile: http://finalmile.in/research/

Pandemic Playbook from FinalMile: https://www.playbookforpandemic.com/

Irrational Labs Bootcamp: https://irrationallabs.com/learn/

"Perfectly Hidden Depression": https://drmargaretrutherford.com/perfectlyhiddendepressionbook/