0:00

I'm Sequoia Carrillo and you're listening to

0:02

code switch from NPR. You

0:05

might have heard my voice on the show before. I'm

0:07

an assistant editor for the NPR Team

0:09

not going to be guest-hosting this episode

0:11

about jeans white. Today.

0:13

We're also joined by codes, which is

0:15

Sam. Yellowhorse Kessler. Hey Sam.

0:17

Yeah,

0:18

a I

0:24

it's like land back, but

0:26

we're just starting with as one show baby steps.

0:28

You got start somewhere. So

0:30

what's up?

0:31

We. Talking about today, well, I want to begin

0:33

by introducing you to Joe eclipsed

0:36

I'm John include are terrible for years in there,

0:39

if you want to I'm to the you. Don't have to

0:41

okay laminate, do it anyway, just

0:43

try to stop, and sisters are some

0:46

everyone names Joey Cleft, ah, I'm

0:48

a comedian TV writer enrolled

0:51

number the college in the. Interest?

0:52

He was telling me about a time he was writing for

0:54

sketch comedy showcase for TV network

0:57

back and twenty fourteen, and he learns

0:59

that their the native actor on that showcase who

1:01

he hasn't met get.

1:04

The first day of her soul walk

1:06

up to him and was just, you know, excited to talk to another native

1:08

person. And I asked

1:10

him what tribe he was, and he said,

1:13

"Oh, know my aunt just like told

1:15

me that we're part native last year, so

1:18

just started checking that box and now I'm doing

1:20

this diversity showcase"

1:22

Oh boy, I'm betting that this is

1:24

not the first time that.

1:26

Sort. Of things happened a jelly you'd be

1:28

correct, the he told me about another time

1:30

few years ago at one of the be comedy theaters

1:32

in Los Angeles or one of. "The people in

1:34

charge of the Diversity Scholarship Program,

1:36

which is he don't charge of getting free classes

1:39

to marginalize students", I

1:41

told all of their like straight white friends to

1:43

just. Say their native cause

1:45

everyone's allowed on native.

1:48

And you, know meanwhile

1:51

these commentators don't have a single actual

1:53

native actor performer on their stages

1:55

are writing for their teens

2:00

A little surprising to me just how

2:02

cavalier they're being about this,

2:04

I feel like you and both know that this is

2:06

also not just confined.

2:07

Then. Hollywood definitely ny and it's

2:09

interesting to me because, like you know, say,

2:11

you got a DNA test telling you that your native

2:14

or you haven't ended his ancestor that

2:16

your and. Told you about, is it cool then

2:19

to turn around and say that you speak

2:21

from all indigenous people? This

2:24

is under his mind as well and he end up making

2:26

of all things are short film about it.

2:28

Let me pull it up, actually, I want to watch that

2:30

they haven't watched it yet.

2:32

Telling people your native American when you're not

2:35

native is a lot like telling bare, your

2:37

bear when you're not bear. If

2:39

you kill bear, you're bear when you're not bear.

2:41

You will get mauled by that bear if,

2:44

you were the traditional clothing of bear when

2:46

telling bear that you are also bear you'll

2:49

get mauled by that bear. if

2:52

you tell barrier one sixteenth bear

2:54

but you don't know what kind of bear and you've never

2:56

bothered to research your bare culture and yet

2:59

you think you have more right to an opinion about

3:01

bear to

3:01

Then I met a man in exactly

3:03

this I'll say that. as modified

3:06

the bear

3:07

In famous this is inhuman with the same

3:09

haircut marriage the same haircut or,

3:12

dollars off of this in the bear his clearly said

3:14

they don't like it and you don't give any of the

3:16

money you earn to bears and need until

3:18

your guilt it into a decades after you started

3:20

doing it

3:21

You in that bear fine a. just

3:23

kidding you're going to get mauled by that bear

3:28

Wow, I feel like want to watch everything

3:30

Joey's ever done, that was like really fun

3:32

and.

3:33

It to the point: yes, this is and what

3:35

our listeners are missing out on here as justice

3:37

like you're getting mauled by the spare over and over

3:40

again Africa.

3:43

I feel like there's a lot to unpack

3:46

here, so is this?

3:48

And what we're talking about today yeah.

3:50

so we're going to be talking about people pretending

3:52

to be native american when they're not native american

3:55

otherwise known as and let's say together

3:58

for its handy ends handy ha

4:00

Wannabe's receptor or

4:02

maybe my favorite indigenous philippines?

4:04

Oh what was that last one again in?

4:06

did you know similar path

4:08

Though. That is the voice of the incredible

4:11

Louise Erdrich Pulitzer prize

4:13

winning author, Indigenous Telepath,

4:15

is what she called them when we spoke for previous

4:17

episode, "The Podcast", and she sent me.

4:19

A voice memo after the fact deconstructing

4:21

what that word meant and disease.

4:23

Some a path so. that

4:25

word adds to indigenous

4:29

Hello, which is Latin for love.

4:32

And how far as an path? Or

4:34

pathology, which indicates disease,

4:37

are suffering. That's says.

4:41

The love of indigenous people becomes

4:43

pathology when white. There isn't

4:45

assumes native identity tried

4:48

to get inside another person's skin.

4:51

Did you did, you know they'll sell it as?

4:53

Digital Philip path to

5:00

it. You can start to see in did you know, Phillip

5:02

ass everywhere? I'm talking about politics

5:04

with Elizabeth Warren. I'm talking about academia

5:07

Andrea Smith. Who is the New York

5:09

Times did a whole story on about

5:11

her allegedly false claims to tribal

5:13

affiliation, and I'm also talking about

5:15

literature with Joseph Boyden Canadian

5:17

novelist with similar allegedly, false claims.

5:19

And those last two, by the way dispute these

5:21

allegations of

5:26

people playing Indians on screen like

5:28

Johnny Depp in the role of Tonto dream

5:31

where coyotes talks Buffalo after

5:34

26 years. I had my prey until

5:37

you interfere and even

5:40

as far back as that famous crying

5:42

Indian commercial about littering was

5:49

once this

5:52

Some people You're

5:55

telling me they couldn't get a real name. for the The

5:58

actor on that, I are nice.

6:00

Nobody claimed to be Indian, but was

6:02

in reality Sicilian and

6:04

the tear, his say.

6:05

He'll keep. the

6:07

rabbit hole golf and of course a

6:09

whole lot of people and everyday life will make up

6:11

make tribal identity to you know on job applications

6:14

college applications and applications feel

6:16

like most need of people have met someone who

6:18

upon introducing themselves will be like

6:21

oh i'm one sixteen cherokee or something

6:23

like that so i saw joey

6:25

short film thought it was hilarious and

6:27

hilarious call them up and we talked about it

6:29

Friends. Of mine was posting on Facebook

6:31

about protest against the Washing DC NFL

6:33

team a few years ago and

6:36

somebody commented on the post saying

6:38

something to the effect of "like" I

6:40

just got my DNA test in the mail at

6:42

turns out I'm one sixteenth

6:44

Indian and think the team

6:47

name is fine, so everybody

6:49

lay offs so basically

6:51

you made. It a short films

6:53

just to every bite this one guy and winners

6:56

ah yes like I must have my work made

6:58

the shorts on out of spice how.

7:01

that leaves us on go against the korea i

7:03

just got my dna test turns

7:05

out and two percent native american native think

7:07

the football team name isn't offensive

7:10

Yeah, this is what her colleagues seen them be would

7:12

call sticky because DNA

7:14

is not all it takes to be need", Merrick and

7:16

but it's also not like there's a written exam

7:19

either, you know.

7:20

Yeah. "I really like how Joey put it", he describes

7:23

a camel like spectrum where, on one

7:25

and you are people who are indisputably Indiana,

7:27

you know, and roll members of tribes. Whose whole family,

7:30

as Nato's, you know, they grew up on the reservation, their whole

7:32

life, you know, no one would question them and

7:34

then there's people who are definitely like

7:36

gas.

7:37

Then there's definitely like a gray area

7:40

in the middle of people who. You

7:43

know, maybe? Are

7:45

involved in the culture our native biologically

7:47

but are not enrolled number of try the arm

7:49

for various reasons maybe.

7:51

there are people who are native but don't

7:53

speak their tribal language like myself

7:57

You know, their people of all different skin

7:59

tones that are. Or authentically native.

8:01

"Yup a delay, the is so complicated

8:04

and to hear about people who lie about it

8:06

for small, just hurts, but it also

8:09

makes the waters that much money or for

8:11

everyone else"

8:12

Yeah. And if I can extend that matter for

8:14

those muddy waters, just make it

8:16

harder for others to navigate, especially

8:18

when you have an ambiguous connections were

8:21

tribe, think we should. Start by taking a look

8:23

at the history here because despite my

8:25

thinking initially that this was very twenty

8:27

first century issue, it's actually been

8:29

an issue going back centuries specifically. As early

8:31

as December sixteen seventeen, seventy three.

8:33

Oh, I was a history major

8:35

in college, I know that is the date

8:38

of the bus and.

8:38

Rt really, getting could use

8:40

that yes or hundred a year degree I know final

8:43

eight assists so if

8:45

you remember when the colonists are throwing

8:47

he and to the boston harbor they did so

8:49

just as native americans although to be

8:51

honest i probably looked more like chief wahoo

8:53

than any actual native american ever be

8:56

i'm not exactly very accurate

8:58

costumes fact "Like they didn't have a diversity

9:00

consultant", On said. Yeah I'm.

9:03

so i spoke with felt the loria a

9:05

historian who wrote book about the subject of

9:07

people dressing up as indian throughout history

9:10

called playing indian

9:11

The for me sort of reading about

9:13

the customs that weren't actually Indian. In.

9:16

Any way necessarily points

9:19

you right back to all the European kinds of traditions

9:21

of with a communist rule of stepping

9:23

outside of the social order in

9:25

order to sort of both. Question: It

9:27

and to kind of be contained,

9:30

read in years sort of act of rebellion,

9:32

and this goes to all kinds of long

9:35

centuries long history, so explain

9:37

that. A little bit this idea as Miss Role.

9:40

Yeah. So, in other words, by dressing

9:42

up like native Americans, it was their

9:45

way of, you know, donning a costume

9:47

to escape their identities as colonists

9:49

and doing so as big. Middle finger to

9:51

the British, you stand on the shore's rate

9:53

of this new world and you look

9:55

out any see. Savages

9:58

and why do you see set of just because you're looking back? Then.

10:00

Your shoulder new thing uncivilized like

10:02

everybody back in England at the same time

10:04

you're looking back over your shoulder and England you think I'm

10:06

not like those people, so that's how. You get

10:09

things like the Boston Tea Party or maybe

10:11

get people associate themselves with pocahontas

10:13

or the Lenny Land up chief Tam and that's

10:16

the sort of thing that. Salute to Loria refers

10:18

to as the settler colonial conundrum.

10:21

The they're both fascinated by

10:24

and, willing to appropriate and to imagine

10:28

indigenous people well at the same time

10:30

during gauged and dispossession oftentimes

10:33

outright genocide, acts

10:35

of, violence. and that

10:38

in my mind that creates

10:40

of sort of instability

10:44

Bring! My back to the twenty first century, how

10:46

does that relate to what we deal with now, with

10:48

people pretending to be in the and for

10:50

a job or college, well,

10:53

how? I think about it is we no longer have an issue

10:55

of Americans trying to set themselves apart from

10:57

Britain, we've thoroughly separate that

10:59

ties, yeah, but you still have people

11:01

wanting. To of associate themselves with native

11:03

Americans, you know, this is something as really

11:06

become a larger phenomenon in the past half

11:08

century, at, you know, according to the Census,

11:10

the native. American population and the U.S.

11:12

has grown from five hundred and fifty two thousand

11:14

and nineteen, sixty, two, nine point,

11:16

seven million and twenty wow

11:18

that, like huge increase that's. Like

11:20

over sixteen hundred percent, yeah,

11:22

exactly so, that kind

11:25

of explosion simply cannot be chalked

11:27

up to birthrates or immigration

11:29

more likely as people adopting native

11:31

American identity that did. Not claim

11:33

previously, so I spoke with Northeastern,

11:36

she's a professor of anthropology at U.T. Austin, austin

11:39

and she actually coined the term "race shifters"

11:41

to broadly described people changing how

11:43

they. Identify.

11:47

I talk about it in terms of racial shifting because

11:49

that was the thing that was specifically

11:52

trying to understand that move

11:54

from whiteness to Indian this.

11:57

Thirty book becoming Indian is about how

11:59

native culture.

12:00

Her. And Turkey culture in particular

12:02

has seen this boom and appropriation and

12:04

circulates out a few possible reasons that is happening,

12:07

one possibility that NASA sinister it is

12:09

that need of people. Who once felt pressured to

12:11

pass as white don't feel that anymore

12:13

and the census reflects that?

12:16

There's. Less overt racial discrimination

12:18

there's more opportunities,

12:21

in terms of economic opportunities, affirmative

12:24

action ah those kinds

12:26

of things and there's a period of just increased

12:28

ethnic pride during the nineteen.

12:31

Seventies so and the fact

12:33

that residential boarding schools which we haven't

12:35

really talked about yet for much of the twentieth century

12:37

pushed against. telling it dismiss

12:40

children to hide their heritage or

12:42

there were entire generations of native kids

12:44

adopted off reservations into

12:47

non native homes which was why the indian

12:49

child welfare act was passed to curb that

12:51

problem

12:51

Yeah. You're exactly right that all those things

12:54

kind of throw need of identity into disarray

12:56

for a lot of people, but we also have to

12:58

consider that there are people who are. Playing up

13:00

things like that flimsy DNA test

13:03

that tells them their native, who were

13:05

also check that box on the census and

13:07

Searcy dealt with that her book by having conversations.

13:10

With these race sisters.

13:11

I. Never ran into any one where I felt

13:13

like they were overtly

13:16

lying speedo and fabricating

13:18

this in order to get something

13:21

right, it doesn't seem to be that instrumental,

13:23

think. That that really, that kind of

13:25

read of things misses the boats,

13:28

think that most of the people who are engaged

13:30

in this process of claiming.

13:33

Think that they are reclaiming. You

13:36

know what I've been thinking about the whole time, Sam.

13:39

Why do not need of people want

13:41

to be native so much what is so

13:43

attractive about this specific identity?

13:46

I mean besides of looking at how cool we

13:48

are and what not wanting.

13:50

to why to be a part of that by i mean

13:52

thirty years asking the same question you know what

13:54

is the value that is attached to ended

13:57

in a the The harder it is.

14:00

Then. You know? Their

14:02

values at least it with the people that I.

14:05

Conducted. Research with they talked

14:07

about spirituality,

14:09

so there's a certain sense

14:11

of spiritual, connectedness

14:14

and spiritual inside, and even I

14:16

would say a kind of since it's sacred power

14:18

that's attached to. Indian this

14:20

so provides that almost like kind of religious

14:22

core of. and there's also

14:25

sense of community

14:28

Though everything that they associate

14:30

with you know blight life has

14:32

been like a modern and alienated

14:34

and not having culture

14:37

right. these things are associated

14:39

with whiteness the near the opposite is

14:41

what they're finding an indigent eighty which

14:44

is that it's culturally rich and

14:46

it's being part of part community and

14:48

there's and spiritual foundation to us

14:51

There were you say you have a strong spiritual

14:54

foundation.

14:55

I gotta say must sick after my wife's

14:57

side because modern and alienated

14:59

are all pretty good identifiers for myself

15:02

that.

15:03

He was she saying, "like if you're white

15:06

with one sixteenth Indian ancestry,

15:08

you might be compelled to play that up because it

15:10

means that you're related to the people

15:12

who are on the right side of his"

15:14

Three. "I think there is a deep desire

15:16

to diss own complicity in the settler Project,

15:19

so this is Kim Tall Bear", she's the author

15:21

of the book, native American DNA and

15:23

A. Professor at the University of Alberta and

15:26

friend of the show she's been on before I

15:28

think people don't want to see. The "the

15:30

historical guilt for living on stolen

15:32

land" and I'm not saying they are

15:35

obviously are explicitly thinking these

15:37

things think.

15:37

"A lot of the stuff a subconscious", she

15:40

says, "there's something else going on here to which

15:42

echoes what sturmer saying: "I also

15:44

think there is it there's this kind of romanticization

15:48

of native people write romanticization

15:50

of that history"

15:51

Though she was on the show last to talk about

15:54

the rise of at home DNA tests, which

15:56

have been chasing the landscape of racial identity

15:58

suddenly people can.

16:00

It like hyper specific about their background

16:02

for better or often times where.

16:05

And. What we really dug into in that episode

16:07

with her is that racial identity is

16:09

also about your cultural ties, your connection

16:11

to a community, and that goes especially for

16:13

native Americans. Like does your tribe

16:16

claims you here's how can put it when

16:18

she spoke with streamers on Mirage back

16:20

and twenty eighteen. I haven't actually

16:22

done a full array of.

16:23

The DNA testing on myself, but if I did,

16:25

and found that had hey, haven't eight

16:27

percent sub Saharan African ancestry that

16:29

would be really interesting, but how

16:32

could even begin to make any claims around

16:34

that i'm was raised a native go? When

16:36

rural South Dakota, you know?

16:38

I. Think cameras really the person to crystallize

16:40

for me what's at stake here when we talk

16:42

about pretend he and I mean the first

16:44

issue being that people falsely claiming

16:46

indigenous identity. By doing so,

16:48

take of resources that are set aside for indigenous

16:51

people like scholarships or,

16:53

like the diversity showcases Jimmy mention,

16:55

Sloth's number one.

16:56

The number two, when we have

16:58

too many people who have no lives.

17:01

Experience as native people. The

17:03

it when they rise to. The ranks as professors

17:05

as artists. The thought leaders,

17:08

as spokespeople for indigenous issues

17:10

and history without having lived those lives,

17:13

they theorize in ways that to not protect

17:15

our communities they produce. Knowledge and art

17:17

work, you know? Film with whatever field

17:19

there in that are not actually coming

17:22

from our out of indigenous. Lives and

17:24

standpoints, they're not asking questions

17:26

from out of those lives.

17:28

So the question here is how

17:31

can people claiming to represent native American

17:33

communities really do so when

17:35

they themselves do not have that? Then

17:38

take.

17:38

The lived experience, but

17:40

my next question would immediately be

17:43

like in what even counts as authentic

17:45

was expire exactly. It's

17:48

impossible quest. Yeah.

17:50

And also Kim says that this is

17:53

really an issue, because aside from the effects that

17:55

these individual actions can have and

17:57

the way that individuals identify it's also

17:59

a week. A tribal identity and sovereignty

18:01

who stole our children.

18:03

They stole our land now.

18:06

they are they have stolen or representations

18:08

cultural artifacts they stole indigenous

18:10

bones and blood to do scientific research

18:13

on them all of these things are entangled.

18:21

Though Sam, we've got a lot more

18:23

to unpack here, we're going to had to break soon,

18:25

but what's on the other side?

18:27

Well. I think and reporting this our it race

18:29

so many questions for me personally about

18:32

what it means to be native American because,

18:34

as you know, Sequoia, I'm navajo and my mom's.

18:36

Side and grow up on the rise, don't speak

18:38

the language, and people often mistake

18:41

me for whites or can't really tell

18:43

him native, so that leaves me wondering

18:45

you. Know, does that make me a pretend, yeah?

18:47

I. Think about this a lot, it's something personal

18:50

to me my dad is also need

18:52

of, and he grew up knowing that I

18:54

grew up knowing that, but a lot of the.

18:56

Other details are pretty murky, he was adopted

18:58

into non native family in nineteen fifty

19:00

two during the boarding school era, actually

19:03

when people were trying to erase seat of heritage.

19:05

And lot of ways, so he reconnected

19:07

when he got older and worked on reservations

19:10

and in need of issues, but he still

19:12

an affiliated with any tribe and this is.

19:14

Not an isolated experience, family

19:16

trees are super messy and sometimes

19:18

branches just.

19:19

There. Yeah, so when we come

19:21

back, we're going to meet a guy just and break

19:23

who was in his twenties before he

19:26

ever had any idea he might be connected

19:28

with native. Culture and he struggled

19:30

with the same problem we've been talking about

19:33

I mean was encouraged to embrace it

19:35

nobody told me to the no pity take

19:38

five. ten years to

19:41

The ask questions and explore and kind of.

19:44

The years.

19:47

Them me up after the break.

19:57

This message comes from NPR sponsor,

19:59

yeah? The te.

20:01

We. Know that sometimes I'm doing a moment

20:03

for yourself isn't so simple, but

20:05

self care doesn't have to be complicated

20:07

and fact that can be as simple as brewing yourself

20:10

warm. Comforting cup of yogi, honey,

20:12

lavender, stress relief, p with

20:14

suiting aromatics like lavender, time,

20:17

a meal and lemon balm, this relaxing

20:19

herbal tea blonde encourages you to take moment

20:21

to. Pause, step away from the chaos

20:23

of the day and secure way to more

20:25

stress free state of mind. The report,

20:28

your well being with the LDP.

20:30

This. "Message comes from npr sponsor

20:32

One's Trials to Triumph", a podcast

20:35

hosted by Star of Netflix's Dear White

20:37

People, actually blame the feathers and Jenkins

20:39

join Ashley for intimate and revealing conversations.

20:42

About the meaningful moments that helps her friends

20:44

and collaborators level up, no

20:47

matter where you are in life, feel inspired

20:49

and empower to keep going while laughing

20:51

along the way with. Ashley and guests such

20:53

as Kelly Rowland, Robin C.D., Michelle

20:55

Williams, Amber Riley, Danielle Brooks,

20:58

and to style new episodes released on

21:00

Mondays, available wherever you listen to

21:02

podcasts.

21:04

The call, Sam. Code

21:06

which?

21:08

The sam we're just talking about how deep

21:10

and difficult the struggled to find your

21:12

place in native culture and your own

21:14

identity is and. that you

21:16

met a guy who actually went through this process

21:18

himself

21:19

Yeah, he actually wrote an essay about his

21:21

identity for this magazine called Maze

21:23

and of "Let's Let's Let Introduce Himself"

21:26

My name is Justin Break, and

21:28

I am a journalist based

21:31

currently in Ottawa on unseated

21:33

Algonquin territory I'm

21:35

originally from Newfoundland,

21:38

which is the unseated territory of

21:40

the be authentic and the made me.

21:42

So. Around the time, just and was in his

21:44

mid twenties, the make my nation

21:46

were trying to get for recognition from the

21:48

Canadian government, and it sparked a lot

21:50

of interest among. The population in finding out

21:53

if they had any need of ancestry, there was

21:55

never any mention that we hands on.

21:57

The nation's ancestry specifically.

22:00

My ancestry I. wasn't

22:02

until my mid twenties and

22:04

that i first began to hear

22:06

family members and relatives are talking

22:09

about that

22:10

You know, growing up just and had spent time

22:12

with his grandparents and Newfoundland doing the

22:14

sort of activities that people associate with make

22:16

my culture like fishing, picking blueberry

22:18

staring rabbit.

22:19

I am it was not clear to me

22:21

at all growing up for and even when found

22:24

out that had make my ancestry

22:26

that anything that had been exposed to

22:28

as a child even as young adult

22:31

have. anything to do with my indigenous

22:34

ancestors perhaps passing things

22:36

on

22:37

Though you mentioned there was a push by the make

22:39

more people to be recognized by the King.

22:41

Then. Government, yeah, so as doesn't explain

22:44

that certain bands of the magma have never been recognized

22:46

by the Canadian government and in nineteen

22:48

sixty nine, the prime minister at the time proposes.

22:51

Article called the White Paper, which

22:53

would essentially a race any previous trees

22:55

with first nations and assimilate them into

22:57

the Canadian population, that article

23:00

would also revoke any privileges and benefits.

23:02

They had as first nation citizen.

23:04

And first nations in particular

23:06

right across the country pushed back

23:08

really hard on that but at

23:10

that time are a lot of people

23:13

who lot of indigenous people who haven't been

23:15

really politically engaged in the past

23:18

Ah. he knows saw something that they are perhaps

23:20

ever seen in their lifetime which was the potential

23:23

to be part of something huge and

23:25

push for push for

23:28

radical change

23:29

Though. There was a mass mobilization

23:31

protests all over the country and

23:34

after those protests, they got the recognition

23:36

they wanted, but the make my never gonna

23:38

need land assigned to them so. They were the

23:40

sort of landless first nation called the

23:42

hullabaloo First Nation.

23:44

Okay. "So weird is just didn't

23:46

come in well when the Magma thought

23:48

that recognition they opened up applications

23:51

to become a part of the Halibut away and Justin's

23:53

family wrote in now" The group, who

23:55

was pushing for recognition, had around ten

23:57

thousand members at the time so they

23:59

expect. The similar number of people to apply,

24:02

oh boy, I feel like know where this

24:04

is going. But how many

24:06

applications did they get?

24:08

In a few years that followed,

24:10

they received over hundred thousand

24:12

applications, wow,

24:14

okay so? The hadn't times

24:16

applications that they are.

24:17

Then. Back and yeah, which kind

24:19

of calls into question how many of those applications

24:22

are legitimate, like maybe some

24:24

of these people saw an opportunity to receive

24:26

some others privilege as I. mentioned and since

24:29

they don't have to technically live anywhere

24:31

in particular in order to qualify,

24:33

you can just submit an application and see if

24:35

you become a member. Why does

24:37

an application like?

24:39

And look like, anyway, yeah, it actually

24:41

sounds kind of a while by Justin's description

24:44

because you have to prove that you're indigenous

24:46

to paper documents that so you traveled

24:48

to reserves the and they accepted really

24:51

surprising.

24:52

Going to get receipts from plane tickets

24:54

to show that they had travelled, they

24:56

could submit pictures of themselves out

24:58

of power picture of yourself sticking

25:01

blueberries as evidence that you

25:03

were indigenous.

25:04

And this, the early twenty tense, it

25:07

feels like not the most.

25:08

"The regret criteria, yeah,

25:10

and so a lot of people were skeptical about

25:12

that process, of course, but nevertheless

25:15

Justin family applied and they got in

25:17

this", he describes it like "one day he just

25:19

got his acceptance letter in the mail"

25:21

I. Mean I thought it was cool, have no idea

25:23

where had no idea what it meant, but

25:26

it's it seemed cool, it's embarrassing

25:28

for me to say now that I. Had no frame

25:30

of reference no understanding of,

25:34

the significance of politically

25:37

culturally historically of what was happening

25:39

and when was bound up in,. however

25:42

i guess was thinking critically

25:45

and are skeptically enough to

25:47

say that i'm not one hundred percent

25:49

comfortable with this

25:51

Though once that letter was received,

25:53

the next step in the process for recipients

25:55

is to complete another form for your

25:57

Indian status cards and in Canada.

26:00

That's what you need in order to claim any benefits

26:02

like certain tax exemptions under the Indian

26:04

Act for Education Program you

26:06

gotta have the card in order to make use of though

26:09

I. never sent off for that

26:11

card i just kept my letter

26:13

welcoming me into the band and really

26:16

realized okay this is this is real

26:18

and this is something that something need to

26:21

understand better

26:23

So around that time, he started slowly

26:25

learning about make my culture and history,

26:28

and was trying to figure out where he stands

26:30

in relation to all that.

26:32

I started going to powwows other.

26:35

cultural events and i started building friendships

26:37

and connections and die

26:40

and meeting was a wonderful people many the more

26:42

on the same sort of journey

26:47

Though. He was clearly trying but

26:49

what did his own like internal

26:51

personal journey look like well,

26:54

that's actually when his journalist has

26:56

had some use because as he became

26:58

more interested. interested exploring his identity

27:00

and heritage, heritage restart spiritual leaders

27:03

and elders to park and attend powers

27:05

to get more of a sense of the culture that he wanted

27:07

to. Be part of. law on i

27:09

was not with accepting the

27:11

warmth and kindness all along the way

27:15

Had. Actually connected with an elder who

27:17

was the oldest living MiG milder on the island,

27:20

who was a good friend of my grandfathers and

27:22

our that elder has name's John

27:25

nicked her. To work and he met me at

27:27

the powwow and we can pick up truck and

27:29

took drive around Con River'is is community

27:32

and, he told me about times he. Had spent with my grandfather

27:34

used to stay with my grandfather grandmother when

27:37

he'd come up to Gander, Ah

27:39

for ah visit time visit asked him asked

27:41

him did. My did my part ever tell

27:43

you that we had seek my ancestors

27:46

and and. and mr

27:48

to door said no

27:55

Though he took it seriously. If

27:57

we, he's trying to reconnect, but that

27:59

tie. There to his ancestry, it

28:01

sounds like it's. Very pretty.

28:04

Yeah. And you can see he's trying his best

28:06

to reconstitute that with the support

28:08

of the magma and it's difficult, you know,

28:10

at the same time there's this big news stories

28:12

of. People claiming to be native who couldn't back that

28:15

up, so these questions about what it

28:17

means to call yourself indigenous are swirling

28:19

around Justin's had and changing how he initially

28:21

thought. About that when he first received

28:23

that letter, I mean, was encouraged

28:26

to embrace it, nobody told me to

28:28

the new baby take. Five

28:30

ten years to. Ask

28:33

questions and explore and of.

28:35

The years I started to think

28:38

a little bit more critically in here different perspectives

28:40

and it made me start to feel

28:42

more uncomfortable more unsettled and.

28:45

ah but i accepted think quickly

28:47

realized that's how it should that should

28:49

be feeling

28:50

So I guess want to pause here and say

28:53

if can make a judgment call Justin

28:55

is doing everything right, you know, he's thinking

28:57

about what it means to claim certain identity

28:59

and speaking with people about indigenous

29:02

city.

29:02

Totally and this past looks different

29:04

for everyone, not everyone has access

29:07

elders. The speak with or justice.

29:09

Privilege as a journalist to be embedded

29:11

in discussions about race and indigenous

29:14

communities and, also

29:16

it sounds like Assembly had particular

29:18

tied to his innocence ancestors. like

29:20

i said everyone's family tree is messy

29:23

and complicated and not always

29:25

cut

29:25

dried exactly, and so it

29:27

kind of taking all of this into account is discussions

29:30

with elders with new friends with family

29:32

and thinking about his own feelings of

29:34

responsibility and how he identifies

29:37

and he came to this conclusion.

29:39

At some point I had to accept that

29:42

if I'm being one hundred percent honest with myself

29:44

if I'm really looking for answers here have

29:47

to accept the possibility that I'm going to land

29:49

on No. i'm not

29:51

make more and no i don't have a right

29:53

to claim make my identity

30:00

Though after all that.

30:02

He. Decided he couldn't call himself Enigma,

30:04

yeah, and I guess that's why his stories

30:07

that out to me because think most people,

30:09

you know, who have a legitimate claim to the. Heritage,

30:12

the know already have citizenship in the first nation

30:14

and having been accepted into the community, they

30:16

would have done otherwise, how did that decision

30:19

sit with him especially?

30:20

After having spent all this time

30:22

thinking about it.

30:24

Well, he told me he doesn't regret taking

30:26

the time to get to know this community better, he

30:29

says he's made some friends along the way, but

30:31

he also believes this isn't an open and shut

30:33

sort of story he's leaving with some things on

30:35

answered.

30:36

I think that the experience

30:39

of. Fundamentally questioning

30:42

who you are you, know not

30:44

just in terms of ancestry and indigenous identity

30:47

but this has prompted like

30:49

And even deeper ongoing

30:52

reflection, and a journey

30:54

is nowhere near over

30:57

I. Guess I'm talking through this with people

31:00

I realize there will never be any sort of crystal

31:02

clear message to determine whether someone

31:04

is indigenous or pretend the in or not,

31:07

but. think learned that identity can

31:09

be about genetics, heritage and relations

31:11

just as much as it can be about your experience

31:13

and your true. The only things and none

31:15

of them, right?

31:17

In weeping nodding to the fact that colonialism

31:20

is really we're introduced a lot

31:22

of these issues, whether it's stuff

31:24

like that, Dawe's act and blood quantum

31:26

would.

31:26

You talked about on the show before or Indian

31:29

boarding school switch deliberately strips

31:31

generations of native Americans of their culture.

31:34

The burden shouldn't fall on that. Individual.

31:37

And. What just and story really proved I think

31:39

is that and or to be a part of community you don't

31:41

necessarily have to be part of the tribe there's

31:43

other. Ways to appreciate and engage with native culture

31:46

without necessarily claiming an identity that's

31:48

not your own, here's how he put it.

31:52

The individual identity is,

31:55

not what's important,. that

31:57

collective well being is what's important

32:00

I'm told it is the epitome

32:02

I think of white privilege need to

32:04

be able to. Your hands on documents

32:07

that show that you have an indigenous and sister

32:10

and suddenly. The'and and make

32:12

me indigenous. Very.

32:14

Dangerous and it's not something that I'm interested in

32:16

being a part of and,

32:18

but I do have compassion because

32:21

every family in every community story

32:23

is different and know. That are lot

32:25

of people like me never want

32:27

to do any harm and who are bound up in the exact

32:29

same struggle and ended

32:32

and beauty. question

32:39

Soon.

32:41

You can find more on our website, NPR

32:43

Dot.org org Slash Coats Switch, and

32:45

we want to hear your honest feedback on our podcast,

32:48

so go to NPR Dot.org org Slash Podcast

32:50

Survey to fill out an anonymous survey.

32:52

We promise we don't take any of your personal

32:54

information, it just takes a few minutes

32:57

and it really helps us.

32:57

The check out the Lincoln are absurd notes

33:00

as love this episode was produced

33:02

by Your's truly Sam Yellow", first Kessler,

33:04

and edited by Steve Drummond and Legionella.

33:07

Shut! Out for the rest of the codes, which damn Karen

33:10

Grigsby, Bates, Pristina, Color Kumari,

33:12

the barrage and just come Alyssa John

33:14

Perry and Summer to Mods or

33:17

Art Director is L. A Johnson or,

33:19

in turn, is Nathan Pew, we

33:21

also had help from our previous injury, Carmen

33:23

Molina, a coaster and special thanks

33:26

to Christine True.

33:27

And. Shouted as well to the people we spoke to

33:29

for the story, Justin Break Jimmy Cliff

33:32

philip J. to Loria Kevin Noble may alert

33:34

Searcy Sturm and can tell them you

33:36

can. Find Justin's original essay about his story

33:39

in the Summer Twenty One Edition of Mason

33:41

and will include a link in our show notes

33:43

and quake real out and I'm

33:45

Samuel. A horse kessler cy young sickest.

33:55

This message comes from NPR sponsor

33:58

Ari, I your local the. Outdoor

34:00

co-op op: may not all climb

34:02

mountains, but together we can

34:04

move them, join our ai

34:06

in the movement to protect and share

34:09

life outside Ari, better

34:11

is out there.