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Ari Gronich 0:00  

Has it occurred to you that the systems we live by are not designed to get results? We pay for procedures instead of outcomes, focusing on emergencies rather than preventing disease and living a healthy lifestyle. For over 25 years, I've taken care of Olympians Paralympians a list actors in fortune 1000 companies, if I do not get results, they do not get results. I realized that while powerful people who control the system want to keep the status quo, if I were to educate the masses, you would demand change. So I'm taking the gloves off and going after the systems as they are. Join me on my mission to create a new tomorrow as I chat with industry experts, elite athletes, thought leaders and government officials about how we activate our vision for a better world. We may agree and we may disagree, but I'm not backing down. I'm Ari Gronich. And this is create a new tomorrow podcast.

Welcome to another episode of create a new tomorrow. I'm your host, Ari Gronich. And today I have with me a Mohamed hammound. He is a loving husband, and father to three children. He's a heart centered leader who's passionate about empowering leaders to unleash their potential by sharpening their emotional intelligence, fostering inclusion, and leading from the heart. Thank you for coming on the show Muhammad and why don't you tell us the audience a little bit about yourself and how you became this heart centered leader.

Mohamed Hammound 1:41  

Thank you for having me on the show today are a really a pleasure to be here. So how did I become a heart center leader? I don't necessarily believe that was intentional. Ever since I was young, maybe eight years old, I started becoming aware that what I wanted to do in life was to be in service of others. And that's not the language I used when I was eight, it was more of how can I make a difference? How can I do something that makes me happy makes others happy. And from a young age, I crave belonging I craved wanting to be amongst others and feel like I was one of them. Because I was an immigrant I came from overseas, I lived in Canada, I had to change my name, I several times had to disinvest, myself of my Islamic identity, I became Western. And, you know, so becoming a person who I wasn't to please people who weren't like me, and starting to look like people who weren't like me. So I started to fit in. Because you know, you look at me, I don't look literally, I don't look Muslim. And when I started using the mic, and then Miguel, and then Miguel, it was years it was I was, you know, into my adulthood, I was 25, before I came out of the closet and can use my Islamic name, and I could, you know, reclaim my ceramic identities as Muhammad. Through that, throughout that journey from knowing that I wanted to make a difference getting older and recognizing that we need a space where we can feel that we are part of the community where we live, that we belong, that we're accepted. But what I started learning is if you don't accept yourself first, you can't expect other people to accept you. And so since I reclaim so to speak my identity instead of using my given name again, it's not like it shuts off and you know, life becomes easy, it actually becomes more of a struggle, because that was about the same time as the Gulf War and then 911. And then you know, right now, with everything around, you know, Muslims and what you have in the world around a misunderstanding of what Islam is. But you know, not to say there because, you know, I don't represent all Muslims. Certainly not. But that was part of my identity. And how do I put myself out there with a name like Mohammed, whether I'm on LinkedIn, whether I'm applying for a job, people just see the name and they cower back. And they're like, Oh, well, yeah, thank you. But no thanks. So as a matter of now that I was out there, using my full name, how do I engage with others? How do I continue to give back? How do I continue to feel accepted? How do I take off various masks that I've been hiding behind for all my life, and now becoming young, you know, at the time I was 25, becoming, you know, young adults who wanted to make a difference, get a job and have a family. Since then, 27 years later, you know, it's still a struggle, because it hasn't become any easier for people to accept you. But again, to the point that I made earlier, I've learned to accept myself, I've learned that with every struggle and every opportunity, have a conversation gets to know the other person, let them know you authentically create that bond where they know who you are, what difference you can make their life and then it becomes a connection between you and that individual. And I brought that philosophy to the work that I do, whether it's volunteer work, work in the community, whether it's, you know, work that I tried to do and I try to get into politics, or work that I do my leadership Development, diversity, equity inclusion. The lens that I lead with is we are here to serve people. And you can't serve people until you first command ownership of their hearts. What do I mean by that? When you have connected heart to heart with another human being, when they know that you are there to serve them, they will be open to listening to your message. And that's where you create love. That's where you create a friendship. That's where you create a fraternity, sisterhood brotherhood between the other person, and then they get to know you. And that's what human life is all about. It's about that authentic connection.

Ari Gronich 5:36  

Nice. So I've told this story a few times, but when I lived in Los Angeles, my roommate was Palestinian Muslim. I am a Jewish, Buddhist, Catholic, you know, like religion study here. I've studied the Quran, I've studied Buddhism, I've studied Taoism, I've studied a lot of religions, Native American. But she and I, you know, as you can imagine, didn't necessarily agree on on a whole lot of stuff. But we agreed that we were brother and sister, and brother and sister sometimes grow up in completely different households, even if they're in the same house. So even my brother and I are very different people, we, we kind of made that same conclusion that, you know, we grew up in different worlds because of our perception. And our reality was was different, even though it was the same household. And so with, with my roommate, her cousin happened to be an attorney in Palestine, that worked with the Hamas, PLO, the Palestinian government, and Israel, on their negotiations and on their peace talks, and all these things. And what I didn't realize at first, is that when she and I would have these conversations, these amazing conversations we'd always start out with, where are we the same? That was the first thing that we asked, we said, okay, we already know we have differences. Here. Is our beliefs the same? Where is it that we have the same goals, the same thoughts? And then, okay, so now that we know we have all of this, that's the same, maybe our way of going about it is different, maybe our way of thinking about it is different. But we can create some solutions. What I didn't know is that she would call her cousin in Palestine, after we were done having a conversation. And she basically tell the stories of of what we were talking about, and the solutions, and then he would go and, and do some peace talks and do some, you know, negotiations as an attorney, with with that kind of information. And it was fascinating to me, because most people would say to me, how are you living with this Palestinian Muslim woman? Because they don't realize that people are just people, and religion doesn't necessarily make you a terrorist, right? I think the percentages that I saw something like 10, or something percent, but percentages are really low in any extreme group. But they're loud, the extremists are loud. So those are the ones that get the message across. And then people are judging an entire culture based on or religion based on a small percentage of the population. And that happens everywhere across the board, whether your Let's call, it should be a little bit politically incorrect, whether you're a southern redneck, whether you're a Palestinian Muslim, or Muslim, in general, whether you're a Jew, whether you're Catholic, Christian, Protestant, you know, like, I mean, there isn't a culture on the planet that hasn't at one point been oppressed and repressed and, and ripped apart, so to speak. And so if we can get behind the fact that, what is it that we want? And what is what where are we the same? All of a sudden, the world opens up possibilities, in my opinion. So let's talk about that a little bit. Because I don't want to make this about too much about religion and culture that way, but it's definitely something that's present in our communities and in our countries. Right now. Very, very hardcore. So let's just talk a little bit about how how would you say you use emotional intelligence to bridge the gaps between diversity and culture.

Mohamed Hammound 9:48  

So that's what I spoke at. So I was two years ago, I was invited to speak at the weekend away TEDx in Traverse City Michigan. My Messages around the Claiming my identity. But it was more of extending that bridge because we as human beings can become bridges. And my message was, you know, people that have hijacked My name for their political, you know, their political views that don't resonate with the rest of us. What they've done is they've hijacked my name, my religion, my beliefs, and they've used me as collateral. So the idea is that we don't have to your point, we don't have to be represented by that loud minority, however small they are. And I think the percentage is probably less than 1%, actually, But to your point, because they are so loud. And we tend to see more of the negative in society than we tend to look for the good as human beings, we tend, you know, even on ourselves, we tend to first focus on what brings us pain and anger before we look at what is bringing us happiness and fulfillment. So when we look in, in the community, we will look into society, we'll look at what's different. And when we see what's different, we don't necessarily see what's good about it, we don't see that we can be better and happier because of our differences, and not in spite of them. But nobody told us you had to agree. So you and your Palestinian Muslim friends started from a place of commonality. And most of what what the reason that we're here, I believe, is not defined that we all like chocolate ice cream, but to recognize that you can like chocolate ice cream. And I'd like mint. I don't it's the other way around. But the idea is that it'd be boring if we all agreed, and if we all believe in the same thing. And the beauty of is how we can recognize that diversity, diversity is a fact. But as inclusion is a choice, diversity is all around us in nature and human humanity and the way that we speak and the way that we look in the way that we love. And so we can't change that diversity, we have to recognize it a celebrated as opposed to penalize it, and we can, tentatively so with intention, choose to be inclusive, but even inclusion is not enough. What we have to do is to allow you and I sit at the same table, and when you break your bread, you hand it to me, you allow me to sit at the table with you and to be part of your communion. And it's a matter of allowing enough people as as the table. So you know, it's making sure that there are empty chairs so that people could actually come and sit beside us. And you know, back, you know, in Palestine and Israel, people don't actually sit on a chair, or traditionally, we sat around in a circle. And that circle is the circle of safety. And what we have to do to recognize, for us to grow and to recognize the differences make us stronger, is to allow the circle of safety, to widen, and for those that are on the outside, to come in, of their own volition, and to be part of the conversation to have their voices heard, to feel that they are seen, to feel that they are valued. And when we do that, when we when we allow ourselves to stand back and allow others, you know, or, you know, permit space for others to come in, we create that feeling of belonging. So if diversity is being invited to the room, and inclusion as having the door open, for me, belonging is me sitting side by side and breaking bread with you and feeling that we are together in communion. And that's how we can build human bridges. So when I said that right now, instead of building walls, as we know, this is the rhetoric that we're using to divide us, and the vitriol that we're using to shame and to talk about the other, and not very positive way, we need to say we'll build bridges instead of walls. So that's the message that we need to hear today. It's not that we're going to agree, humankind, you know, we have not agreed on anything that has changed the world for the better. We have come to sit together at a table to recognize that you have the right to your belief, and I have the right to my belief, but in that right in that right that I own and that you own, we have the common understanding and respect, to accept each other and honor each other. And that I think if we come to a starting point, say from those commonalities from those places of honor, we can start to become better human beings. We can create the new tomorrow, we can be part of the tomorrow that we want to start living today.

Ari Gronich 14:17  

Absolutely. You know, you said something about circles and I I'm a circle theorist. And what that means is there's not a single thing in nature

Unknown Speaker 14:33  

that

Ari Gronich 14:33  

doesn't have a circle shape. in martial arts, everything is about circle. You know, whether it's creating an energy bubble or the movement being a circular movement for martial arts. Tribal living in a modern world is a book that I'm I'm getting ready to to write and I'm going to do Do a series of these books. The first one is corporate, as a corporate one, it's trouble living in a modern world, the corporate culture revolution. And my theory is that if we take the sharp edges out of anything, and we turn them into circles, so let's, let's say in a corporation, you usually have cubicles, and that people are in and box offices, right. And it's a box building. Yeah, and if you took that, and you turn it into a circle structure, then all of a sudden, and you could do concentric circles. So, you know, small, and then bigger and bigger and bigger, we end up creating project driven and productive teams, purpose driven teams, things like that, because all the people necessary for that project are in that circle. And they all have equal positioning. Right? So there's, there's no place where that position, the engineer isn't less than the accountant or more than, than the managers, manager, then the you know, because they all have different unique talents. So why put one above or below another in a box type structure, or a pyramid type structure? why not create it in in a circular circular. But I think that that goes back to what you were saying, you know, in Israel and Palestine and tribal living in general, we, we would eat around a fire in a circle, talk around a fire in a circle, we would commune we would storytel, we would, you know, do that, in the 50s and 60s and 70s, we would eat dinner with our family in a circle. And the circle has become sharp edged, versus, versus that nice, soft circle with no sharp edges, right? We don't do dinner with the family anymore, we tend to be individualized, even in our families, right. And that, to me is part of what has broken up the family which has broken up the community which has broken up the society and you know, the purpose, I guess, of it has been, well, everybody's too busy to do anything together anymore, because you're working 40 to 80 hours a week, right? But just if you can imagine a world that's circular, versus sharp edge, and how much print that might feel.

Mohamed Hammound 17:50  

And isn't it amazing, the world is circular we live and not maybe a perfect circle, but the earth is a globe, the sun is a globe, the planets are circular. You know, everything that we know, to your point has some sort of structure where it's circular, the the the dimensions of how the blood travels within the body is circular. Everything has that circular. Now I you know, I'll come later to the idea of a spiral. But a spiral is another version. You know, when you talk about concentric circles, a spiral is a circle that continues to grow, that continues to expand. And that is how I think we can take the image of a circle, not the square or rectangular head of the table leadership mentality that there is one leader at the top of the pyramid or the head of the table, but we are sitting around equally equitably around each other, across from each other. Looking at each other, we can hold hands with each other. And most of the indigenous communities believe in the circle, you mentioned the campfire. So I think we are designed or created in a circular mentality to your point, we start dividing ourselves up into the compartments of the cubicle and the the boxes and the big buildings. And it's all about these sharp rectangular shapes that break away from what's natural and nurturing to us. So the more we move away from the circle of safety, the less that we feel we belong or that weren't included. And I think it's important to recognize that the more you are less to your nature, the less you're able to nurture. So how do you nurture a relationship with another human being if you create a dimension or a dynamic of inequality because of where you sit or where you stand, but when you invite someone to commune with you, within that fear of knowing and being that person feels that they belong, right as opposed to You know, I have to take a seat at a table and the closest that I am to the head of the table, probably the more important that I am or in the pyramid, right servant leadership tries to turn that pyramid upside down. And you know, you talk to a lot of the CEOs, and they're like, No, you know, I got to see all because I work too hard you did. But you didn't do it alone. And if you continue to think that you, you know, you're up at the top of the pyramid, and you work alone, and these other people who are below you, I hate that language, by the way, you know, people who, you know, report to you, if they're not part of who you are, and part of your vision, if all of a sudden, they move away from beneath you, your position at the top crumbles down to the bottom. So we need to be able to invert that pyramid and to put the CEO and the leader at the bottom, and not in terms of importance. But in terms of structure in terms of foundation, in terms of vision, in terms of that leader now has the vision to be able to support an organization growing and spiraling up within growth so that the individual contributors who are now perhaps furthest away from the from the leader can actually benefit from that shared vision that spirals upwards as opposed to comes down, you know, top down leadership is so, so out, but it's still the one that is predominantly, you know, telling us how we should be living, it's very top down, do as I do, do, as I say not as I do kind of leadership, it's role playing and not role modeling.

Ari Gronich 21:38  

Yeah, I agree with with that as well. And you know, the thing about companies is, to person who's got an ego, a CEO, that has an ego, he's the person who created everything. To the CEO, who's non egoic. I have this skill set of vision, you have this skill set of implementation. I work hard at creating a vision, you work hard at making that vision sing, making that vision work and making that vision. Amazing, right? Whether it's one employee or 50,000 employees, you've got the vision, that's my job is to hold the vision as the CEO, not to be the ego of I am a CEO, but to be I am the vision holder, I'm the direction, I'm the GPS, you're the car, you're the driver, you're the steering wheel, you're the brakes, you're the implementers And that, I think puts them in an equal footing. Because it's not I worked so hard for this, it's we work hard to get where we're going, we're traveling down the road, and we need the team to get there. There's no man on this planet. No woman, no man that can ever say that they made a huge success of life by themselves. They may have created the concept, but then they had to get other people involved and other people on board to agree with that concept in order for them to make that that leap. Right. Steve Jobs, he had somebody Bill Gates, he had somebody I mean, and then they had to bring in more people that had other skills that different skills and better skills, you know? So yeah, that's the thing about leadership is interesting because we've gotten to this place where it used to be Captain goes down with the ship. The buck stops here, right? And now it's more like the buck stops were going down with nothing right? I'm gonna have all the money in my helicopter is gonna get off that ship before. Right? ploys can get off that ship. And it's a very different kind of way of thinking about things which makes people feel unsupported. unappreciated, uncared for an unloved so they're going to be unloyal unproductive on, you know, compromise with what they're doing. And now you've got a business that's running half at its capacity or less. half its productivity or less and the employee loyalty is gone. Government loyalties gone, civil liberties gone. We're not like worried about civics so much anymore and civic duty and you know those kinds of things. So it's an interesting way of looking at it, but tell us what you think would be a solution to that dilemma, the dilemma of top down leadership,

Mohamed Hammound 25:20  

to invert that pyramid, and to really come from the vantage point lead through the lens of being there to serve lead through the lens that you as the leader to your point, the leader got to be where they are. And you know, it's interesting we how we refer when we say the leader, and you said it, I've said it, he, because 98% of leadership positions are white, middle aged men, gray hair men, right. And so I think the reason you and I have these podcasts is we want to change that landscape, we want to make it more inclusive, we want to see different genders, leading, we want to have different voices. So that is in part of the solution. Right now, when we saw what's happening with the amplification of the civil liberties movement, and the Black Lives movement and the awareness that the status quo isn't working, we can't go around putting our knees on people's necks and killing them, right? And only reacting and making change, when things like that happen, we need to be proactive, we need to make sure that CEOs aren't stepping aside because they feel that there isn't representation and there isn't diversity, we need to build organizations and design culture. So they're more inclusive, so that in two years, 10 years, 20 years, we see more people that represent our populations that represented the differences and the commonalities that we have. So that person at the top doesn't have to know all the answers, that person who is leading doesn't have to be at the top, that person needs to lead by listening to others learning about their needs. And when we do that, not only do we engage, and we empower people within our organization, but even when you have top down leadership, and for some reason, because you lead by fear and authority, you have people in your organization, you know, being strung along with you, guess what, your client will likely find a different organization, because not a lot of people out there want to be sold a product, they want to be sold a vision, they want to be sold a lifestyle, I buy a particular, you know, electronic device, not because I feel like spending $2,000 on a phone, but I do because I believe in the the operating system or more. So the the infrastructure of what that phone will do for me. So it's it's the ecosystem, that it right. It's a lifestyle. And so it's a matter that if I can lead, but not by empowering my client, my customer may not have the love behind me, and I don't see them with me anymore. So at one point, we have to leave for the organization, we have to leave for the employee and we have to leave for the community, we have to have that holistic approach that we are here to serve the people that work with us, not for us. We are here to serve people as a team approach. And then we are here to serve the community. Yes, we are here for profits, but not at the expense of people. Yes, we are here to to build office towers and to buy and purchase and to have a certain lifestyle, but not at the expense of people going hungry. So we need to recapture that humanity that has helped us build our economy and recognizes to go hand in hand, the term essential worker only became important when we recognize that we couldn't live during this pandemic, without their essential services. The minute that we felt things were getting better in the summertime, at least here in Canada, we took away the the $2 an hour that we were giving essential workers on top of the regular wage because we're saying Hey, thank you for your hard work when you when we needed you. Guess what, now we're having the same sort of story that we were, you know, telling our marketing spiel was we need you we're in this together, because we're starting to feel the strength again, we need to behave in our optimal when things are good, and when things are not so good. So leaders need to lead to be of service to others, similar to the message that I gave you at the start when I was introducing myself, if I have a message that I'm going to share with you until I have been able to create a relationship with you and be of service to you. You're not going to be open to listen to me until you and your colleague respected that you didn't have to agree but to live together and you could do so in harmony by by respecting each other. You recognize it's okay to disagree. And that is the beauty of differences is we recognize that they don't have to, you know, separate us they can bring us together

Ari Gronich 29:57  

absolutely and You know, it's funny. We both said he but a friend of mine on on Facebook yesterday posed a question. And it was an interesting question it was, it was poised to men and feeling and the question was, do you men feel like you have to play small, because of the role that women are starting to take over more positions of authority and leadership and politics and yada, yada? And my response was, nobody needs to play small. Everybody can play big, there's a blue for every thing and every person. So they'll be attracted or repelled by that person based on their own whatever biases. And I then I then I asked just the funnier question, which is, did the apple need to play small to the banana? Or does the avocado just win at all? Because, you know, it's like, well, I can, I can only have this fruit, this apple, I can't have the apple and the banana. I can only have the avocado, right? And I'm going to have that for the rest of my life. Just avocados? How boring would that be?

Unknown Speaker 31:25  

chocolate ice cream?

Ari Gronich 31:27  

is like, why should Why should the apple play small to the because the banana is the number one bought fruit in the world. Right? An apple didn't play small to it. People still eat the apple who want the apple people eat the orange people eat the, you know, the avocado. So, you know that that philosophy that people have? And it goes to race also, race religion? Well, you know, if, if too many black people become in politics, right? Then we just we just are gonna you know what, we're just gonna we're gonna have to be small because we can't fit everybody you know? Like, okay, where is it that the best person for the job, no matter what race, religion, color, sex creed. The best person for the job gets the job. The best. Nobody needs to play small. Everybody can play really big and full out. Right?

Mohamed Hammound 32:37  

So already, I will say cuz I had somebody challenged me on this when I was saying, you know, we knew, right, we do want the best person for the job. And a black woman said to me, but we don't have the same opportunities to get to be good at the jobs that we do, we don't get the same opportunities to have the same education that white people do privilege. And privilege has many layers. So you and I even though we're not white, we look white. And therefore we're closer to the dominant culture in terms of our skin color, right. And so systemic criticism holds people back from being able to access the level of education and, and socio economic success that the dominant culture has offered or allowed, not offered, allowed permitted for the dominant culture to have. So when we look at the best person for the job, the reason we sometimes we gravitate towards giving it to a white Anglo Saxon, middle aged white men to be in a leadership role, it's because we have not empowered women enough to be in leadership positions. Because, you know, we haven't empowered enough black people to get the same sort of education in the same Ivy League schools as white people. So we have systemic racism and assault that changes we're the best person for the job will likely still look like you and me, but probably be that white, middle aged, right? So it's a matter of recognizing that our current system is broken and needs to change. We need to change it so that in a few generations or hopefully in a few years, representation is truly based on opportunity and giving equal opportunity and equitable opportunity to everybody in the community.

Ari Gronich 34:22  

So I'm gonna I'm gonna preface what I'm saying with I agree that there is systemic racism. The thing that I'm that I'm gonna disagree with is okay, is that there's a lack of opportunity.

Unknown Speaker 34:41  

Hmm.

Ari Gronich 34:42  

There's enough people that I've met in my life, been friends with enjoyed their company that are black, female, that are absolutely brilliant and millionaires and living amazing lives. And You know, one of the things like that, that. And this is a point of consideration, but Morgan Freeman asked these questions, right? Black man has has gotten a lot of success. And what he says is, we need to stop talking about race. Don't call me a black man, I'm not gonna call you a white man. Don't you know, I am Morgan. That's my name. That's who I am. And I think that part of the system is that we ask, race, color, religion, gender, on documents, that are, it's unimportant to have that information. It's not important to have it unless you want to segment a society and discern, okay, well, this person is of that so they get this benefit. And that person is of that so they get that, right. If we stop naming people and labeling people, red, blue, left, right. You know, redneck snowflake. I mean, if we stop the labels,

Unknown Speaker 36:16  

to me,

Ari Gronich 36:18  

we begin the process of creating systemic change. As soon as we start privileging people who have been unprivileged. Now we're creating an imbalance. And that imbalance is what scares the living bejesus out of out of white people.

Mohamed Hammound 36:38  

Right? When we're reactionary, like we were with the doors, Floyd murder, and all of a sudden CEOs were stepping down to make room for colored or black CEOs. You know, as you know, there's kind of parts from the black community step in, that's where I think we're being reactionary. And to your point, we're privileging those who have been underprivileged, we allow me here to say that the systemic racism that we have is in one generation to change, it's hundreds of years old. So for you mentioned bias, until we have a new baseline where you could see a name on a resume, like Muhammad, and not have the bias that you will. And you know, and I've done research, and I've done, I've been part of these attempts where I apply as Mike. And I'll get the recognition more quickly than I will by Mohammed. So you won't believe the amount of times that doors have been closed, virtual and physical, because people see my name. When we first came in, we're talking 17, we were totally had to change our names, because we couldn't I couldn't go to an all Catholic school with the name Muhammad or I have to be baptized, right. So systemic racism exists. And until we have a new baseline, where we're not building on the previous baseline, where we're, you know, for us to be able to say, we'll recognize that you have equal opportunity, we have to get to that baseline where equal opportunity exists. And I think when we look at the number of let's use black people, as an example, the number of black people who are well off and enjoying a better lifestyle than their white counterparts, it's a very small percentage compared to how many people we when we look at our cities, there are certain areas in the cities where they are just our postal codes are based on how much money we have, what color we are, what religion we are, we're segregated. And we know that when we look at cities like Chicago and New York, there's a Italian village, there's the the Jewish community, there's the Middle East, and to me is like, there's pockets. And those pockets don't we celebrate, I go to Little Italy to have a good authentic Italian pizza. But the idea is that people came to those areas and stayed there because they felt comfortable. And it was segregation that prevented them from going to other places. And that segregation, it's a form of discrimination that we continue to propagate, because we say this is the status quo. So I think we have to recognize that representation has to change, this new baseline has to be read correctly calibrated before we can get to the point where we say, you know what, the best person gets the job because right now the best person that has the opportunity to get there is not you and I it's the people that have always been fed with a silver spoon and things were easier for them because of hundreds of years of colonization and slavery.

Ari Gronich 39:40  

Right? Yeah, I get some of that. And, and I'm just playing devil's advocate.

Unknown Speaker 39:48  

Oh.

Ari Gronich 39:50  

So did we get segregated like the Jewish communities of New York and so forth, or whatever? Did we get segregated or Did we segregate ourselves because that's where we felt more comfortable, and, and so forth. So, you know, we came here for the diversity of the culture in America, but we then moved into communities with just our people, regardless of who's our people, whether it's, you know, Latin or Latin communities, Italian communities, you know, Armenian communities doesn't really matter. And then the next question that I have is how many Mohammed's are loud? About the love are loud about the heart centered are large, loud about what it is that you're loud about, right? versus however many Muhammad's that are loud about terrorism? Right Thing with any, any with any right, Miss? I'm putting this out there not not as a What I'm saying is the the evil is always louder. Right? And right, in my opinion, the way to change that is people like you get really loud, people who have good hearts get louder than the terrorists get louder than the people who are causing problems. The in the black community, get loud about the changes that you're making and the good that you're doing in your community versus the crime that's happening there. Right

Mohamed Hammound 41:32  

there. Right.

Ari Gronich 41:33  

There are ways to bring people in. And there are ways to scare the little bit living bejesus out. And I think that in general, the small pockets of of loudness are coming from the agitators more than the unifiers. And so the challenge that I would have is for the unifiers to get much louder than anybody else. The message that they would hear when they heard the name Muhammad is they would hear love inclusion, heart centered, empowering, versus death to whatever you know, like, and this may be insulting, I don't know, because I'm not trying to be in

Unknown Speaker 42:26  

No,

Ari Gronich 42:27  

I'm saying in a way that I feel like, I'm not victim shaming. And a lot of people might think that, but what I'm saying is I'm trying to empower somebody to not be the victim.

Mohamed Hammound 42:43  

Right? Right. So to your first point about did we choose to where we segregate or re choose to be segregation, it's never black and white, it's never one or the other. It is combination of both we gravitate towards areas where we feel we belong. And this is our community, we go to St. Churches, even within let's say, Jewish community, you have the different kinds of Jewish communities. And you'll have three different synagogues based on how conservative liberal orthodox they are saying within the Muslim community. So we we segregate ourselves, we choose that inclusion, which becomes exclusive at one point, but also I think there's an element of we are put into different and it depends on the country, you're in we I don't have to tell you in certain I mean, God forbid that anything should happen like this, again, the segregation that happened in Nazi Germany, for example, what the Jewish communities, right, that's where we don't want to go or segregation now

helped me, you know, allows us to look to be other as the enemy. And that leads into my second response to your second question, which is when we are louder about the things that make us different and make us different in fear, because it's ignorance can go two ways. If you go to fear and hatred, or if you go to acknowledgement and love, because we all start from a place of ignorance. We don't know, to your point. I don't know if I'm being insulting, you're not, you know, we, if you didn't say it, it'd be like the elephant in the room. Right? And it's the idea that we have to acknowledge We start by asking these questions and baselining you know, what we know and what we want to know. And when we allow the louder voices so it's not that there are more Mohammed's who are terrorists. What it is, is the media will only tell you about the Mohammed who are terrorists, they will not tell you about the Mohammed said or unifiers. The when there is a white wall what we know right now, and this isn't white bashing, by the way, but I think we have to call it out there. We know the homegrown terrorism is 97% of the amount of terrorism that there is in North America, at least in the United States, compared to the amount of non new rights is a terrorism that's not on our soil and it's most of that is not by the immigrant communities. So it's our media chooses to always talk about the hoodie who The black man, you don't hear a white Christian boy wants him to a store and blue off somebody's head with a pistol. But you will hear black male. Right now we're starting to get Caucasian, right? So we have to be equal represented representation. And when we're giving a message when we're praising and when we're being critical, we have to your point earlier, to where I think we can take what Morgan Freeman is saying, and that look at me as I am, I want to be seen as Muhammad and I want to be seen this Muslim as part of my identity, a black person was fought endlessly generations to celebrate being black. For me not to see their color, for me to be colorblind is supposed to be color bold, will be taken away the affirmation that they've worked centuries and centuries on, to be recognized as a person of color or black person. And I was, you know, one time I refer to a black woman, as a person of color said, I'm black, Mohammed, not a person of color, I'm black, I fought for the right to be black and to be recognized and seen as black. So we have to hear and see and value people for who they are. And when we do that, to what you said earlier, I think when we have that new baseline, where I see you for who you, you know, representative of all other Jews, you as Ari, who is a Buddhist, Jewish, got some Catholics in there. So you, I see you for you. And then I recognize who you may speak on behalf of by saying to me, as a Jew, I speak to this. In North America, as an American person, I speak to this, I don't speak on behalf of all Muslims. I'm shunned in some in some parts of my community, because I don't look like this isn't a religious beer, this is just three days gross, because I've been lazy. So you know, we have to recognize that one person doesn't represent the entire community or you know, if you want to use the word race, because I believe we belong to one human race. So until we have that new baseline, it's going to be hard to say that we can be equitable and treat everybody with equal opportunities. Until we have that new baseline, it's going to be hard to say that we can give the best do the job to the best person because that person who is the best for the job didn't have the same opportunities their parents didn't. So we have to create that new baseline, we have to do the image of the circle that we talked about earlier, allow for us to sit back and for others to come into that circle and to recognize the engineer and the and the CEO, and the individual computer contributors all has something of value to bring. And that comes with our self awareness. It comes with our level of deep conviction that we are emotionally intelligent beings. You know, it's not just intelligent photos, but it's emotional quota. And it's our intention to create that opportunity to speak and get to know someone and to become a human bridges and not human walls.

It's deep. Yeah,

Ari Gronich 48:11  

you know, it's really difficult to have a conversation like this. In general, in public these days. I can disagree with you, and I can agree with you and I can still honor, respect, love, feel affinity towards, you know, you. And that kind of level of commitment that I have to love thy neighbor, so to speak, is it's not based on a religion, it's based on a belief that there's nothing to hate in a human being other than the trauma that they've gone through. To make them do the things that they do. Everybody has traumas, and everybody has brilliance is. And there's so many people these days that are in this cancel culture that are well you don't believe in what I believe in. So I'm just going to delete you as my friend. I'm just gonna eliminate you from from my sphere so that I don't have to hear your opinion that I disagree with. And I think it's so damaging to a culture in general, that, especially one that the United States like Canada and the United States are two places where

Mohamed Hammound 49:54  

we

Ari Gronich 49:56  

welcome immigration. We Welcome. Diversity, diversity is what created our country, black men and women built most of this country Chinese built most of our railway system. people other than white people, right? Did tremendous work in the infrastructure of building this country and not always, in ways that were kind. Sometimes they were ways that had whips at their backs. And I think the beginning is acknowledging what the struggle has been. And then saying, Okay,

Unknown Speaker 50:50  

I get you.

Ari Gronich 50:52  

I feel what you felt. Now, what we do from that information, because if we stay there, in that spot of, you're just going to be a victim forever.

Mohamed Hammound 51:14  

Right? When you started this, you were talking about your relationship with your roommate, and the conversations that you were having help become part of the conversations of a peace treaty. Right? Or at least, to me a conversation about creating, right? And when we said equals, as equals a table where we see value and each other, that's a start. And knowing that we're not going to agree on everything, but in our disagreement is not a reason to build a wall. And our disagreement, can we continue building a bridge, and, you know, some bridges take longer than others to build. But they all start with the tension that I hear you, I see you, I value you. And I value in building a bridge to unite us as opposed to divide us. So I think if that's our intention, and everything needs to start with that intention, then we can only end up in a better place. Not in an in the best place or in a perfect place, but in a better place than where we have been.

Ari Gronich 52:25  

You know, it's funny. I was 18 maybe in in Oregon, in Salem, Oregon. And I was wearing a jacket that no this was actually I I have the jacket my brother This was my brother so my brother is wearing a jacket that has a pentacle on it it's a you know that that pagan star, the fun are inside of a circle, and then it had some Celtic ruin ruins the writing on it said pagan pride in in Gaelic, and he's wearing Doc Martens It was kind of funny, he you know, we were we were we were crazy, you know, kinds of people growing up, we like to study religions and do things like sword fighting in the middle of the forest for weeks on it, you know, time and listen to JRR Tolkien and read, you know, read JRR Tolkien. So we were interesting people. And I'm very creatives. And my brother was approached in a mall by a skinhead. And the skinheads saw the Doc Martens, and he saw the jacket and he thought, Oh, this is one of my people. And so he started having a conversation with my brother, my brother, obviously didn't tell him he was Jewish. And he just sat there for almost two hours listening to the vitriol that this person was spewing, not agreeing, not disagreeing, not not reacting at all. And, you know, some of the things, I think one of the things he said is like Jews have an aversion to water, so they smell, they smell now you could smell a Jew a mile away because they have an aversion to water or something like that was one of the things but he kept, you know, he would say all these things, not knowing that he's talking to the person he's talking about. Right? And I find it fascinating how much people think certain things about certain cultures where they've never actually experienced knowing that person or that culture right. So I I've been to Jordan and Lebanon, and Israel. And I kind of went into Palestine for like, about 20 minutes. Not enough to know a culture, right? I've traveled to France for a week, not enough to know the culture. But I have I could you beliefs about the French culture. I could spew beliefs about the Muslim culture I can you beliefs about those people. And none of them are accurate 100% mostly not even 10%. Right. Because what the belief is, has been fed to us by as you said, by the media, by comedians, by entertainment the world, you know, I listen to somebody say the Jew, the Jewish held media, you know, all the news, it's all the Jewish control in the deep state. Like, really, I'm Jewish, I've never heard of this deep state or the Jewish control of, you know, like, it doesn't make sense to me because it doesn't fit with my reality. And I'm wondering how much benefit the audience would get by going up to somebody that they previously have have a preconceived notion about and just starting a conversation with them and asking them questions. And not reacting and not responding, just asking questions. And I believe there was this black gentleman who did this with the KKK. And I think that that there's something like 80 or 90 kkk members that after years of this black gentlemen being around and them saying, hey, mate, well, you know, black people are this but this guy's okay. You've I'm sure heard that.

Mohamed Hammound 57:25  

I've heard a documentary Yeah.

Ari Gronich 57:27  

Was our Baba Baba. But you're okay. You're, you're alright. How did you get to be okay, instead? Well, wait a minute. The majority, like you like me like that black men who went to ask the question of, of this Grand Poobah in the in the KKK, right? How much ignorance allows people to continue being judgmental. And I'm going to put it one step further. How much religion allows people to be judgmental, even when they say, only God is there to judge you. It's a sin for you to be a judge and jury. That's God's job. But yet, the religious people in general that I've met, doesn't matter what religion are the ones that tend to judge the most

Mohamed Hammound 58:35  

holier than thou,

Ari Gronich 58:37  

I unpacked a few things there. Why don't you speak to that? That's a lot of comments. But

Mohamed Hammound 58:45  

again, I think it comes back to what you said earlier about bias. If we're not ready to recognize our own bias, right, we're not going to understand how we can lead to see things differently. And that different, doesn't have to be bad doesn't, you know, our goal, our end goal isn't to agree. our end goal is to honor that you and I have the right to exist, and to hold different convictions wherever they are political and religious. But can we still sit at the same table and break bread and recognize that you have every right to be seen heard and valued as I do. And it's not because your color or your privilege, or what you lack or have more often I do, it's that we all come as equal partners and contributors to this circle. And we're all we all have the right to feel that we belong and be feel safe. And when we feel that we belong and we feel safe and we try it, we start to trust each other. And when we trust each other, we build a foundation. And that's how you build the bridge on is that foundation of trust. We can get there whether we're talking about nations or nationhood. Whatever Talking about different political parties, whether we're talking about in a relationship to people who live with each other, you know, if you are not prepared to sit at the table and listen to the other person, and to lean in with curiosity that you're going to learn something, you know, I have something that I call the four DS and the four L's of emotional intelligence, right? And, but the four L is start with listening. So when we listen to others, what happens when you when you listen to someone,

Ari Gronich 1:00:32  

I learned,

Mohamed Hammound 1:00:33  

you learn, that's a second L. When you learn about somebody, inevitably, you start to exercise a level of compassion, empathy, and that means love. And when you do that, when you start to love someone, you listen, you learn, you start to love and appreciate them. You allow them to be you allow them to lead from the heart. So the four L's you know, how we get to know others, you know, emotional intelligence is a lot deeper than that. But I you know, the reason I brought the four DS in the four walls into it, and particularly the four other boats, awareness of others, why did I think the four DS in the four l basis came to my mind and I was able to put these the the formula together just to work it but I wanted to give people an idea of how can I simplify getting to know myself through a process of diagnosis, determining that I have the right diagnosis, developing a plan was the right milestones and the approach. And then I get things done, I do it. That's the four DS of self awareness. And the four D is the form of becoming more aware of others, is to start from a place where I'm willing to listen, when I listen, I inevitably learn when I learn, I end up loving. And when I love, I end up leading from the heart and allow others to lead. When we can bring that level of awareness to ourselves and to others, we inevitably create communities where we feel safe, or we trust each other. And where we belong. The idea is not the minimum, we think we have to agree on everything. It's like looking at the diversity that's all around us and saying you don't exist. And diversity exists whether or not you and I acknowledge it people are black people are our yellow people are our white people are what Caucasian, whatever you want to refer to our physical outwardly, right, and pink, and pink, right. And people you know, love differently, you know, people who are not ready to embrace that we have different ways to love and there's no better way than another, people that aren't ready to recognize that we have different ways of of attaining piety or, or believing in a greatest force. We are not here to convince each other of who's wrong, who's right, we are here to value the honor that we bring to the existence of the other. And and you know, that is where we can start. We can start by and you know, we when we talk about honor and acknowledgement, you know, this is why in most here, at least in Canada, before we start a ceremony, we acknowledge the land on which we are because we recognize that this land does not belong to you, or I, you know, this land is a land that has been taken from the indigenous communities who have lived here for 1000s of years. And you and I are our visitors on this land. We are all immigrants of some sort, right? Whether we're Jewish, Muslim, white, black, we are all here. And we have started to live on the land that were owned by the indigenous communities have been here for 1000s of years. So acknowledging that is a starting point for me to mend, and and to say to the indigenous communities, I am ready to acknowledge you. I cannot fix the past. I cannot undo the past. I can only talk to you about what's the right thing that you and I can do now. And what is the right approach for the future? How do I build a bridge for you? And that is the whole idea when we talk about making things right. You know, so it's acknowledging that we can't change the past, but we can certainly learn from it and move forward.

Ari Gronich 1:04:11  

I like that, because there's no way to do anything about the past. Its past. It has passed.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:20  

It is

Ari Gronich 1:04:22  

with regards to communities. That's awesome with regards to companies. Employers, can you see how this might benefit you having conversations with your employees?

Mohamed Hammound 1:04:39  

Absolutely. Absolutely. If you if you let people weigh in, they will buy in. When you tell people sitting around the table, we're talking about projects and you're not just talking about resources and the budget and the number of people that you will dedicate to that project. But you talk about hey Ari, what concerns do you have about this project? Hey, Muhammad, what contributions Do you have to this project, when you treat everyone as an equal contributor, you listen to their concerns when you let them weigh in, they will buy in. When people buy in and their heart is invested in what you're doing. They believe in your vision and your mission, they will work for you. Your heart is a free workforce, because those people become your ambassadors, they start talking about the importance of your organization, when you lead by fear, they talk behind your back, when you lead from the heart and with love, they will acknowledge you in your presence, they will sing your praises, they will talk about why they feel they belong with you. And that that is what's needed today. In terms of leadership in an organization, we don't need the old top down approach, we need the role modeling, not the role play.

Ari Gronich 1:05:46  

Right? That's been that's been probably one of the longest running debates in in history is lead by fear or lead by love. Right? The Kings? Are you a king that wants to be loved king that wants to be feared. You know that that was always and then when, when who wants your your, you know, people to be afraid of you or you want them to love you.

Mohamed Hammound 1:06:15  

Right? The same way, right? Do we want to parent with fear? Right? When I was a little kid, believe it or not, and just faith, you know, we were told to be we were told to be careful, God would strangle us we did something wrong. And we had this image of God, this isn't our religion. This is our culture, by the way, right? You know, we have this image of this omnipotent being that knew everything. It's like this magnificent Santa Claus. And if we were bad, he was going to take his his sleigh and wrap the rope around our neck and strangle us. And when we grew up, we're like saints, our parents. What do you mean, God's gonna strangle? So I don't know. That's what our parents told us. So our parents and their parents and their parents, parents will tell us the lies and the misconceptions and disbelief that they've learned. That's why nations can't get along. Because we've stopped listening to the nature of our of how we can nurture each other and honor each other and create a new narrative. We've always, you know, follow the old narrative. So we you know, whether it's parenting, whether it's in an organization, we need to say, How can we do things differently? Just because we've done it this way for the past doesn't mean it's the right way.

Ari Gronich 1:07:22  

Yeah, you know, what's funny, I'm just gonna make it a little lively. But I stopped. A long time ago, I stopped taking the green part off of the strawberry. And I stopped taking the green part off of the carrot. And I stopped taking the seeds out of the apple. And it was like, at first it was like, Well, what are you doing? I said, Well, I always wondered why people did this. And I asked my mom, and she said, because my mom did. And so I asked my grandmother, why do you cut the ends off the carrots and take the green? I mean, it's green stuff. It's good for you. Right? It's green greens are good. Why are you taking the green off the strawberry? Because my mom did. And it's like, Okay, well, let's see here. I think I'm going to I was a rebel growing up, I, you know, probably a rebel now, a little bit, but a lot less. But I stopped doing that, because I didn't want to do something that was done just because somebody else did it. It didn't make sense to me. Why I don't like throwing away food. So why would I throw away this piece of the food? And people look at me when I eat strawberries now. And they're like, what are you doing? I mean, I mean, the strawberry, like, Yeah, but you still got the green on there. And it's almost unfathomable to people, that I'm eating that strawberry with all of its nutrients and all of its form, versus, you know, or the carrot versus taken apart. So I just wanted to make it a little lively. But that's a way of, of illustrating what you were just saying, right?

Mohamed Hammound 1:09:12  

And you know, your point, and our parents and parents parents that comes back to what I was trying to use earlier. And maybe with a bit of humor, it can reinforce a point where that if we look at the opportunities that some communities have and others don't have, right, it's only when we dare to do things differently. I want to eat the banana ones with the Pilon. I want to eat the apple with appeal. My mom always kills apples and parents you know, mom did the skin will really help us digest and so forth. Right? So, you know, I, but I recognize she doesn't want to do it. The PLC says I have to peel back out because I can't chew it. So it's okay. I recognize that what might taste good for me or work for me, may not work for her. And that comes back to what we would say a lot. Is that? So once we recognize that, you know, what's the old adage that we agree to disagree? Yeah, right. But we agree to disagree and recognize that we are both equal in that approach, and one is not better than the other. And, you know, we don't even have to like each other, I say, the people that I work with, like, you know, you don't have to go out and have a coffee. But at least we have to be respectful to each other, we don't have to become best friends. But we have to respect each other. And again, in a workplace environment, you're not asking people to become best friends, you're not asking people to go out and golf together, or go to have a drink together, your ask them to recognize the contributions that they bring the concerns that they have, and that they bring value. And that inevitably, helps people feel like they belong with you, you know, you harness a workshop that's more engaged, more empowered. And that's how you allow people to leave by heart by leading by example,

Ari Gronich 1:10:55  

right? Oh, I mean, just just just thinking about people as human beings, right? inherently, a human has value of skill. Mind, they have, you know, doesn't matter what the, what the value is that they bring, they bring a value. And so appreciating that this person in front of me as a human, and and I asked people, when did you start being so afraid? So, people usually will say, my parents taught me or I had this experience from this one person, right? Somebody beat me up that was of this other race. And so therefore, all people I should be afraid of in this race. But I asked them, where did that start? Because, you know, we all seen pictures of babies, and, you know, kids, toddlers, black, white, Muslim, didn't matter. They just like, oh, a human being, that's, that's my size, I'm gonna go play with that person, right? They had to be taught the prejudices. And if you have to be taught prejudice, then you can be untaught prejudice, right way I know of to unteach something, or to teach something new, is to give them an education of who and what I am

Mohamed Hammound 1:12:21  

amazing, because when you think about children, again, children embrace each other. They, you know, that's maybe what I agree with you on that. I agree that a lot of things. So you know, earlier when we're talking about recognizing whether we have, you know, colored or not, and so forth, right? Children don't necessarily see that difference, and they're not as aware of it. You know, Sally is aware that Bob took her sandwich. And Joe's aware that Sally's wearing a pink dress, but they're not necessarily aware of the other inherent differences that you and I will pick up on as, as adults, though, they're very smart. And they'll pick up on other things as well, that maybe you and I will pick up on. But what they don't know inherently is to hate. They're taught that they're taught by the behaviors that they pick up on what they see and the modeling that they see from others. And what becomes okay. So, you know, we mentioned off off camera we mentioned about bullying, right? Most bullies were bullied themselves doesn't justify why they do what they do. But we learned that behavior from others. So yes, I completely agree with you that what we learn in that we learn to hate, we can learn to love, we can learn on hate, we can learn to become more aware of the other and to embrace them as opposed to push them away.

Ari Gronich 1:13:43  

Yeah, you know that we did have a conversation about the bullying. And I have this saying that a bully's best friend is the silence of others.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:55  

And

Ari Gronich 1:13:56  

that's where I keep we need to get loud. Bull, the majority what we call and we call it this like it's like it's somehow a good thing, the silent majority. Why such a good thing? Oh, you're the majority be loud about the good because the facts of the matter are is what we see in the news, what we see in the media, what we read about hear about look about what's in our faces, has nothing to do with the majority of reality, because the majority of reality is that you could go down the street and have a conversation with anybody. And most people are pretty kind, pretty nice, pretty gentle with others. It's what I consider to be the government's agenda. And this is the government and any place whether it's Israel Palestine government agenda, versus citizenry. Because when I was in Israel, the citizens got along Palestinian living next door to do doing amazing things. And they all got along.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:18  

So

Ari Gronich 1:15:20  

that was my explanation of the news is completely not talking about the truth. And so people need to stop watching the news, stop listening to the agenda and start building those bridges in their own minds.

Mohamed Hammound 1:15:42  

They need to listen to this podcast. Absolutely. No, they need to see where people like you and your Palestinian roommate, people like you and me, I have another Jewish friend here in the town where I live. And he and I were going to have a podcast together. He's Jewish, very senior practicing Jew, I'm a practicing Muslim. And we were going to call it a Jew in the Muslim podcast. And you know, we wanted to set that precedence where we said, Look, we recognize our history, we recognize our brotherhood, and we honor that. And we recognize our differences. And we're okay to talk about those. And we're going to feel uncomfortable, but you know, what, we're not going to hate or kill each other because of that, actually, when we talk about it, and recognize the importance that you and I bring to that discussion. That's where we start to see the value. And the, the reason that I need to listen to you, because before I can listen to you, I'm not going to be in a position where I can learn something new. Right? Well, I appreciate that you've given me this opportunity to learn to learn about you and, and to share with others, you know, because we can learn, we can learn continuously. It's not a process of getting there. It's a process of working to get to a better place together.

Ari Gronich 1:16:54  

Well, maybe maybe sometime, you know, I'll come on your show or something. And

Mohamed Hammound 1:16:59  

I would love that tell me

Ari Gronich 1:17:01  

about the religion and the culture. Because from what I've studied, I'm not so fond of some of the cultural things, obviously, like, I don't like women not being able to drive and all that kind of stuff, right. And that's a cultural thing, not

Mohamed Hammound 1:17:16  

necessarily a geographical cultural thing, if I may, right, you know, and you know what, I can't agree with you more, because anything that doesn't recognize our equality is something that doesn't talk to our humanity.

Ari Gronich 1:17:31  

Right. But I would love you to talk a little bit, and we can't do it tonight today. But I would love you to talk a little bit about the beauty of the Muslim religion, because it is beautiful, rich, diverse culture, diverse religion. And it's nothing like what most people think, in the western least. So anyway,

Mohamed Hammound 1:17:56  

it's changing. I think a lot of people are starting to see differently, because you and I are having these discussions because we are amplifying the the the silence voices that for the longest time have not had the opportunity to be heard. And that is why I think it's so important to to look at the alternatives to the media and the outlets out there. Because having, you know, podcasts having opportunities where people can talk like us freely and share the different perspectives. That's where we're going to break with the silent majority and create a new minority of loud voices that speak a better truth.

Ari Gronich 1:18:32  

Absolutely. So let's give three tips or tricks that anybody listening can take with them and act upon today so they could create their new tomorrow today.

Mohamed Hammound 1:18:45  

This isn't mine, this is probably gone. These are Michael Jackson. But be the change that you want to see in the world. I you know, don't reinvent just be the change that you want to see in the world. Start with yourself. And in order to start with yourself, get to know yourself you can't get to know others if you don't know yourself and when you get to that place of constant knowing of you and the other allow for those differences and recognize that we're stronger because of our differences not in spite of them. Awesome, thank

Ari Gronich 1:19:15  

you How can people get a hold of you if they'd like to?

Mohamed Hammound 1:19:18  

So listen to this podcast listen to the unfiltered podcast I can share with you you know I have a training consulting business desire the number two lead desire to lead I saw as the keynote speaking training people can get in touch with me through LinkedIn is probably the best place so Mohamed Hammound at LinkedIn developing unfiltered leaders there deserve there to engage in conversations and get to know the other. Awesome, thank you so much. I truly enjoyed our conversation.

Ari Gronich 1:19:49  

And thank you so much for coming on and a nother episode of create a new tomorrow. I'm your host Ari Gronich thank you so much for listening, remember to like so Subscribe rate review and comments so that we can start conversations like this with you, and hopefully create a new tomorrow today. Thank you and see you next time. Thank you for listening to this podcast. I appreciate all you do to create a new tomorrow for yourself and those around you. If you'd like to take this information further and are interested in joining a community of like minded people who are all passionate about activating their vision for a better world, go to the website, create a new tomorrow.com and find out how you can be part of making a bigger difference. I have a gift for you just for checking it out and look forward to seeing you take the leap and joining our private paid mastermind community. Until then, see you on the next episode.