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Ari Gronich 0:00  

I'm Ari Gronich. And this is create a new tomorrow podcast.

Welcome back to another episode of create a new tomorrow I am your host, Ari Gronich and today with me is Marrick Rosenberg. And Merrick is the co founder of team builders plus, which was in 1991. And take flight learning in 2012. He's the author of three books, personality wins the chameleon and taking flight. These are all books about tapping into the power of your personality. So this is where it becomes interesting, because we're going to talk to tumeric today about personalities, and the ways in which these personalities define the reality that we live in. So he doesn't know that yet. But he does now. So Merrick, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself how you got to forming this system regarding personalities, and how it may differ from some of the other well known personality discovery tools out there. So

Merrick Roseberg 1:22  

by back in 91, as you mentioned, I started one of the first team building companies in the country. And it didn't take long to realize that, wow, people just don't get along. And teams are dysfunctional, because of personality, that people just don't understand each other, they don't understand themselves. And, you know, the reality is the most self aware people are the happiest, and they tend to achieve their goals in life, they tend to have happy relationships. And that led me to this exploration of understanding personality styles, and they're just for so many tools out there that were using letters and colors was like an alphabet soup. And it was confusing. People just didn't remember it, you'd go back six months later, and they're like, wait, I'm the red, which one's red again, or I'm the this letter that letter, it's like, okay, it's got to be easier. And I taught it like that for a long time. That's how I was taught to teach the styles I worked with, with over 100,000 people teaching personalities, styles, too. And, you know, I go back, and people just weren't remembering it. And that's when the birds flew into my world and just came up with an easier, more visual, tangible way to teach people about themselves. And of course, everybody else in their life, too.

Ari Gronich 2:33  

That's awesome. So, you know, tell me a little bit about the birds and how, how you came about them? Because, you know, again, you like you said, most people I'm a green, I'm a red, I'm a green, red, I'm a yellow blue. Or I'm an inf G or a j FY. And there's all of these different kinds. So tell me how you came out came about finding this style. Or

Merrick Roseberg 3:05  

if you go back to the early 1900s. And even 1000s of years ago, in the early 1900s, William Marston had put together what he called the disc model, which was di sc. Now, it was fascinating. It was just rang true. But what's what's really cool about that is, is it paralleled what had been around for 1000s of years to Greek culture, the ancient Chinese civilization all over the world, people had four style systems, they called them different things. in corporate America, people tend to know them as the disk model di sc. But I just wanted to make it easier. And I was teaching the letters and I found that people weren't remembering them and, and I wanted to write a book about it. And I've kept feeling like, I'm gonna constantly have to say, the take charge D, and the energetic, enthusiastic eye and like, no one's gonna remember that. And then like I said, I wish it was visual and symbolic and like in a flash of insight in a moment, like this download the idea of, of linking it to four birds came to me and then I built a whole business around it, because it's just a matter of teaching people about themselves and the birds made it easy.

Ari Gronich 4:12  

So which bird is which personality? real quick? Yep.

Merrick Roseberg 4:16  

So speed version. I think of an eagle. That's what's called the dominant D style. Eagles are take charge assertive, they are bottom line, results oriented, that power pose you could see almost like that, that superhero. I'm in charge, power pose. Let's make things happen. The eye is what's often referred to as that interactive or influencing style. Parents are social, they're talkative, they're outgoing, everything's all good. Always works out. They're the eternal optimist. They just bring energy and fun. The dove is the supportive, very sensitive s style. dubs are caring and compassionate. symbols of hope and peace and love all throughout the world. They just want everyone to be happy and get along. And owls are that conscientious, but it's the sea style. owls are logical and analytical and thoughtful. We always think of them as wise. But of course, any style can be intelligent. But we attribute that to them because they're so thoughtful and there, they look like they're processing and taking in information. And if they're going to do something, they do it right. So that gives you the four birds that assertive D fun parrot. Caring dove, logical owl.

Ari Gronich 5:35  

Alright, so we're gonna play we're gonna play a little game. You ready?

Merrick Roseberg 5:39  

I'm ready. All right.

Ari Gronich 5:40  

So I haven't I haven't done this before. I do have

Unknown Speaker 5:46  

a little bit of noise.

Ari Gronich 5:53  

So we're gonna play with some of my toys I haven't played with before. And I'm going to name somebody and you're going to name a personality to go with that.

Unknown Speaker 6:03  

Hopefully,

Ari Gronich 6:04  

I'm ready. You're ready. Okay. So we've got Albert Einstein.

Merrick Roseberg 6:09  

So Einstein much more of an owl very logical, very analytical. He's interesting because he had a little bit of a parasite. It was actually kind of a funny, funny guy. But But our primary style for sure. And everybody's not just one you could be a combination of multiple styles.

Ari Gronich 6:23  

Absolutely. Elan musk.

Merrick Roseberg 6:26  

Elon Musk is interesting. He certainly has a lot of Eagle take charge I want to go where no one has gone before that like James T. Kirk, but he's got a lot of parrot to the I'm gonna send my my car to Mars. I mean, who does that that's a parrot thing to do.

Ari Gronich 6:45  

All right, Bill Gates,

Merrick Roseberg 6:47  

Bill Gates, very much of that owl style, very logical, analytical. I mean, if you think Microsoft is the name micro soft of its detail, when you first started the company was creating little mini programs. I mean, so well.

Ari Gronich 7:03  

Alright,

Merrick Roseberg 7:04  

Gandhi, Gandhi very much the dove, that caring soft spoken, compassionate style, but he also had some Eagle which is interesting, because he, he was very much the that what I call that activist style, that picture that dove, we care about people and that Eagle, I'm going to fight for people's rights, but not with aggression, but more with that dove patients but we will win which is the eagle so it's kind of a double Eagle combination style. Very interesting pattern.

Ari Gronich 7:33  

Okay. Martin Luther King,

Merrick Roseberg 7:37  

actually very similar to Gandhi has that Dove Style and the eagle they're very eloquent style because they speak both with compassion and conviction. And so Gandhi, Martin Luther King Obama all shared that style.

Ari Gronich 7:52  

Okay, Muhammad Ali.

Merrick Roseberg 7:54  

Muhammad Ali. You know, you think Muhammad Ali a boxer you think Eagle comes up? But no, he actually had a lot of parrot. He was fun. He was funny, but very compassionate. He had a parrot and a Dove Style, which is very atypical for what we would stereo stereotypically think of a fighter. People. Everybody has stories of just what a nice caring, compassionate guy he was.

Ari Gronich 8:17  

Interesting. All

Merrick Roseberg 8:18  

right. Let's go with Trump. Trump that dove right now definitely not enough. He is. He is the eagle. Kind of all. Eagle all the time. Direct, assertive bottom line, take charge confident that is the picture of an eagle. It would be Donald Trump.

Ari Gronich 8:38  

All right, Biden are getting eaten by politics.

Merrick Roseberg 8:42  

Yeah, much more of a parrot and a dove. He always has that big smile. very empathetic and caring. And look, he's made a lot of gaffes throughout his career. He's always done it. That's a parrot thing to do. There's a thin filter between thinking and speaking. And parents sometimes say things out loud. They're like, Oh, no, can I say that out loud. And then he has to walk it back at the parent thing to do with ease, but he has a lot of love to very caring, very compassionate.

Unknown Speaker 9:07  

Alright, Bernie,

Merrick Roseberg 9:09  

Bernie. Bernie's got a lot of Eagle. Very just, um, take charge. I'm doing my own thing. I'm gonna be the one independent guy in the whole Senate. I don't even care if you don't agree with me. I'm doing what I want. But he also has a little bit of dove in there. Sometimes he has those moments where he'll you'll see tears forming in his eyes. He's just so passionate about what he cares about.

Ari Gronich 9:28  

Yeah, he does have a bit of a, you know, posture of an eagle at this point.

Merrick Roseberg 9:34  

Yeah, he is Eagle but I think he's got a little Duff

Ari Gronich 9:38  

All right, let's see. Buckminster Fuller.

Merrick Roseberg 9:43  

I think a lot of owl kind of very thoughtful, logical, more detailed. Okay.

Ari Gronich 9:52  

Last but not least, let's see here. Madonna

Merrick Roseberg 10:04  

is a great one. You know, I think she she kind of beats to her own drum, which is very much an eagle thing. But I but I think she also has a lot of parrot in there too, that just flamboyant, I'm just gonna put myself out there. I don't care what anybody else thinks. I think it's a combination of eagle and parrot. All right, so do you think what were you think those are accurate as Yes.

Ari Gronich 10:28  

I'm giving you my.

Alright, so now that now that we went through this little exercise, right? personality types, four that are that are good for people who are leaders. So let's say you want to be a leader, you want to be a follower, you want to be the guy who gets on board. So let's, let's kind of map the personality types that somebody would need if they're starting a movement?

Merrick Roseberg 11:05  

Sure, well, here's, here's the first thing to recognize that there is no, this is the style of a leader. If you want to win, I always think of you're just activating that potential in you, you're getting yourself to that place where you're the highest version of yourself, accomplishing the absolute most you can accomplish in this life. It doesn't matter what your style is, your style does not determine how successful you will be. But your style absolutely determines how you go about being successful. So so I'll give you some examples that just kind of staying along this line of what we just did. Richard Branson parrot self made billionaire, Bill Gates out, self made billionaire, Howard Schultz from Starbucks, he is the dove I once heard him say, I want to create a company that my father never got to work at. I mean, it's just that caring, compassionate, dove, self made billionaire Steve Jobs, Eagle, another self made billionaire. Look, this is what you get when you are someone who taps into the power of your personality, and just takes your personality and creates something amazing. And that's what all of them did. So your personality isn't gonna determine how successful you are going to be. But you can bet it determines how you go about it

Ari Gronich 12:22  

is a determine the position that you might take in the company like Bill Gates might take a position based on his personality he made the success may not depend on the personality type, but does the role that you play

Merrick Roseberg 12:41  

for sure. Look, when I meet somebody like Bill Gates, that owl style is overwhelmingly I see them in engineering and finance it. And and that's, that's his world, where somebody like a parrot, like I'll use Richard Branson, he's the marketing guy, his genius is in his marketing. And that's when you go into a marketing department, you go into social media, you go into a PR firm, you find tons of parents. So that's how he drove his success. parrot. sensationalism. It's dramatic, it's big, but it's over the top. And that's how he he put himself out there. So exactly, exactly, you will find certain people will be drawn to certain jobs, because that's what feeds them.

Ari Gronich 13:25  

So if you're hiring, though, if you're if you're looking for looking for team, right? How do you use those roles as your marker for what you're doing? Because I know a lot of people will just hire based on gut versus information. And so

Merrick Roseberg 13:49  

that's right. And the big thing to recognize is that you have to be careful that you just don't hire in your own image. managers do this all the time. You've got an eagle manager there, take charge and assertive. And they think, Hey, I was once in this role that I'm trying to fill. And I know what it takes to be successful. You've got to be assertive and dominant, and you got to stand in your power. And so what do they look for somebody just like that. But maybe there's a dove, who would handle the job very differently, but be equally successful. But you've screened them out because you feel like oh, no, no, I don't want that I know what I need in this job. So the first thing is you have to be careful not to impose your personality on this role, because someone else may do it very well. And we've seen this you could have a salesperson who's a parrot salesperson who's an owl, they're both fantastic, amazing sales, but you can bet they sell differently. And that's okay. And so the other thing that we sometimes need to think about in hiring is, am I filling in a gap in the team? Maybe I don't have any owls on our team, and we make quick decision and quick decisions. No But he says, you know, maybe we should think this through first, maybe we should consider the following have we thought about this, if you had an owl on your team, they would do that. So sometimes you could use hiring as an opportunity to fill in for one of these gaps that they're missing one of the styles, because when you miss one, it's a potential blind spot in your team. So it could be a part of the hiring decision, everything else that you're looking at background experience, all that's important. But I do think style that personality should be a piece of the puzzle. It's one part of it that if you leave it out, sometimes you're missing something significant.

Ari Gronich 15:37  

Gotcha. So let's go back to politics a little bit. And it's not going to necessarily apply the way I would think it would apply. But if I was to say, read, write, what personality types might pop up, or blue, what personality types might pop up, I believe that it's probably going to be pretty diverse, based on what you just said. So I'm going to ask you that in a little bit different way. What personality types are playing an effect in the noise that's being made currently, because we all hear about the silent majority, and the loud minority? So where does that silent majority play in their personality types versus the loud minority? Well,

Merrick Roseberg 16:33  

look, when you there's no doubt that when you have eagles and parrots, they're much more outgoing and boisterous that they don't tend to be in any kind of silent majority. That's true in a staff meeting. If you don't, if Eagles if you have someone who's an eagle parrot, and they have a concern, do you think they just sit there quietly? And don't say anything? No way. But what happens is I think we're seeing the doves and and owls are much more introverted, they're much more reserved. And they're being more energized now to speak, and then just say, we're, I think we're starting to hear a larger percentage of the population than we usually have heard before, which is often that kind of parrot, Eagle, loud, boisterous style. We're hearing more from the owls and the dubs than we've ever heard before.

Unknown Speaker 17:24  

Okay.

Ari Gronich 17:27  

So if we're hearing from the owls, I would assume, right, that the things that we'd be hearing would include with logic and wisdom, and, you know, and thought and foresight, and all those kinds of things. That's what I would think of, if I'm, you know, looking at what, what a

Merrick Roseberg 17:52  

right, but yeah, for sure.

Ari Gronich 17:56  

And yet, I don't really see that kind of introspection and foresight, and so forth, and the things that are being said right now. And not only that, but the doves seem to be getting a little bit of a of an attitude themselves, the people I would normally have thought of, as the compassionate, you know, empathetic kind of, you know, people so they seem seem to be, you know, getting their beaks nice and sharpened for for the pecking so

Merrick Roseberg 18:26  

well, it's because if you think first of all, you think about, think about dubs, I, I've always described them from like a, how they get upset perspective. It's like, they don't say anything, that they don't say anything, then they don't say anything. And then one day, it's just like, boom, and it explodes. And so I think we're seeing a level of frustration, that that we've never seen before just coming out. And, and I think, to your point, I think that what we're seeing what we're also seeing is, there's a lot of Eagle energy out there in that, which doesn't have a lot of detail behind it. But says, you know, this, there's a this is a bad situation and follow me, I will fix it. You know, I alone will fix what's going on. And then I think there's just a lot of faith from the owls that there's, there's, yeah, you know, we're not hearing a lot of detail, but it's there. It's behind the scenes, you know, there is information out there, I don't really need it, which is kind of interesting, because owls usually do need it. They usually want all the details. But I do think you're right. I think that a lot of the owls are just kind of saying I don't need all the detail. But I believe that if things are being said, I'm just going to trust it.

Ari Gronich 19:40  

Yeah, it just seems so unlike the personality type of, of, of an owl. And so I'm wondering if the owl has, has mutated, I'm using a gentle word, instead of procreated has mutated into a different personality type at this at this moment, or if, if we're just seeing the alternative or the, you know, the mirror image side of, of these all of these personalities.

Merrick Roseberg 20:13  

Yeah, I think, you know, I think what's happened is that when when you overuse your strengths, they become your weakness. And so when you dial up the owl too much, they actually don't become so detail oriented. They, they get to a place of frustration, and they say, you know what, I don't even need the detail anymore. I've just had it. And so when you dial it up that far, I think it's a problem. Also, there's been, you know, there's a, it become a fundamental mistrust in the data that's out there, that that idea that you can't trust the news, you can't trust the data. So you know what I'm not even going to trust, I'm going to forget about having to need the detail, I'm just going to trust the person who shares that there's a problem. And they've kind of let go of the need for the data because I can't trust the source of where it's coming from.

Ari Gronich 21:02  

Now we go on to that familiar territory of if we can't trust the media, and the things that are being told to us, where do we go for information? If we rely on information to be our deciding factor in what we actually do?

Merrick Roseberg 21:23  

I think we have to get back to a space where, where the data and the information that's being shared is truly accurate. And this is true from across the board on polit. from politicians, you know, the problem is that we don't really care as a nation if politicians aren't truthful. And that may sound like a very bold statement. But the reality is, look, we elected a president whose name was tricky dick. We connect elected another one whose name was slick, Willie, we didn't even care. And, you know, in our personal relationships, if, if I said to you, okay, here's this person, they're, they're dating somebody, and I measured it, I've been tracking everything that person says, 80% of the time, they are completely truthful, but 20% of the time, they don't tell the truth at all. You would say, I'm not gonna marry someone who lies 20% of the time. But if that were a politician, we'd go. That's pretty good. 80% of the time, they're honest.

Unknown Speaker 22:22  

All right,

Merrick Roseberg 22:23  

I'll take that I could live with 80%. And so I think in our personal relationships, we've we've come not to trust that we would say it this way, integrity, reliability, honesty is really important. But in our politicians, we we may not, we just come, we've come not to trust them. And we're like, yeah, they're honest, sometimes they're not honest other time, so just not even going to worry about it. And so, so that's the challenge is that we've gotten to a space where we don't necessarily trust them. And yet we're like, wow, I'll still vote for them.

Ari Gronich 22:56  

Yeah, it's really fascinating to me, because, to me, they're, they're, you know, there's always going to be the people who are spoofing the leaders, the people who are in charge, but now it's the leader spoofing themselves. And and so it seems like the world has kind of turned backwards on itself. And we're in what's that world called in Superman where everything is the opposite

Unknown Speaker 23:28  

of Bizarro world

Ari Gronich 23:30  

or something? Seems like we've just entered into this Bizarro world and, and I'm curious is whether any of the personalities even make sense anymore? Or if you know, they've all ruffled their feathers? Yeah, you

Merrick Roseberg 23:48  

know, what happens is when we overuse our strengths, it really becomes an issue. It's there's, there's an expression expression, which I love, which is any virtue carried to an extreme can become a crime, you take something positive, and you dial up the energy, you put it in the red zone, and it's a problem. And and, you know, this is, this is what we've seen with a lot of politicians, you take Eagle, and you dial it up too far, and assertiveness becomes aggressive. Confidence becomes arrogance, or even narcissism. And you take the parrot and dial it up too much, and it's just big energy, but there's nothing behind it. There's no plans or strategies and so we we have an issue where a lot of politicians are dialing up their personalities so much, that they're now turning off a lot of people. And and, you know, it's a it's a problem when we can't believe the people that are leading our nation and we just don't believe in them. And we need to just get back to that space. And we get back to that space when they are no longer overusing their personalities. They're using them at a healthy level. And you can look at that person and say, You know what, I don't agree with them. But they're trying their best. You're not going to agree with everything. You know, maybe my party didn't Take the White House. But, you know, I don't trust distrust their integrity. I philosophically disagree. But that's okay, I'm not going to always have a person that I completely aligned with. But I believe they're going to keep us safe and do their best to, you know, to hold America's greatest interests at heart. And we just got to get back to that space.

Ari Gronich 25:21  

Right. So the question becomes, how do we, you know, how do we alter our personality as a nation to be less polarizing, and be more inclusive of other mindsets, meaning, you know, where we began as a melting pot, and it now seems as though you can't have any sort of nuanced thinking without being labeled on one side or another side. And for anybody who's in the middle, who, you know, I believe in these conservative principles, and I believe in these liberal principles, and I have this nuanced sense of reasoning. And nuance has left the building along with critical thinking and common sense. That's no longer common anymore.

Merrick Roseberg 26:14  

Yeah, I think that what we have to get back to, and this is true in our personal relationships, and it's true in politics, and it's true at work, that we have to replace judgment with acceptance, that what we're doing is we're judging people, there's a, you know, this concept that if you can let go of judgment, then it gets replaced with acceptance and valuing. And we do this to ourselves, we judge ourselves, and then we can't step into our own power, we judge other people, and then they can't be, you know, we see them in a light that they can't, we don't even think they're honest with us, because, well, they're not like me, they disagree with me, we have to get back to a space where we accept people for who they are. And and, and not question their intentions and their motives all the time.

Ari Gronich 26:58  

Awesome. Now, it's just a matter of how do we do that? what's the what's what's the tip, or the trick to to doing that?

Merrick Roseberg 27:06  

You know, I always talk about using the birds and using the styles is that when you have an eagle, and they're very direct, except that's them for who they are. That's who they're that's who they are. That's it's not, they're not doing something against you. And that's the big key here is recognizing that, that if an eagle is being abrasive, it's not really about you. You know, if a dove can be smothering that, yes, it's love, but it's like here food, take it, bring it home with you here. I'll put more on your plate. No, no, no, no, you take it. It's like oh, my gosh, drives me crazy, actually has nothing to do with you. It's that it's really all about them. It's love, but it's dialed up too much. If you have an owl, and they're just providing you with too much details, too much information, don't take it as Don't you trust me, don't you believe in we've been able to do that think for myself has nothing to do with you. And this is true for all four sauce is that that don't take things personally understand that the way they're talking actually has nothing to do with you. It's just them being who they are. And letting go of that judgment and recognize that it's really not about you, it's really about them.

Ari Gronich 28:15  

Nice. So you've done this kind of work with top, you know, fortune 100 companies. So give me kind of the inside wrap? Well, let's say you're in this meeting, you know, you and I are 10 people because I'm a Gemini, so I can be that. And so, you know, you have a meeting that you're directing, so to speak. So give me kind of the inside scoop, what would you say to the corporation, the heads of the corporation?

Merrick Roseberg 28:54  

So for me, when I talk with especially senior managers, it's an or any manager could be a supervisor, it's are you creating an environment in which you would thrive? Or are you creating an environment in which your people will thrive? In other words, imagine you have you're an you're an owl leader, and as an owl, is it likely that you create a very structured process driven standard operating procedures, a lot of tracking and documentation and, and measuring data? What do you think if you're an owl?

Ari Gronich 29:26  

Yeah, probably sure.

Merrick Roseberg 29:27  

But now you're managing an entire team of parrots. How do you how do the parents feel? If you're one of those parents? How does that feel?

Ari Gronich 29:35  

You're ruffling my feathers?

Merrick Roseberg 29:38  

Yeah, don't you trust me? Don't you believe in me? So what it's all about is are you creating an environment for your people? Are you really just creating an environment for you? And if I flip that around, to be fair to the owls, I'm a parent manager. And I create a very free flowing, here's your goals. Here's your here's what I'm looking for. Here's what I need it, go for it. I believe in you and a motivating and empowering. How does an owl feel in that culture?

Ari Gronich 30:07  

Not enough ruffled feathers?

Merrick Roseberg 30:09  

Yeah. In fact, like, what are you looking for? What What do you want me to do? How do you want me to do it? What do you how do you want me to hand this in? Can you give me a sense of your process in the details, I'm not even sure what I'm doing? Well, why is the parent doing that the intention is to motivate and empower, just like the our managers intention is to set you up for success. But leaders have to realize that if you want your people to be the highest versions of themselves, and to succeed in a way that they are engaged, and they love what they do, but they also produce a lot, you have to treat them the way they want to be treated. You can't impose yourself on them, you can't create culture for you, you have to create culture for them. And so becoming that highest version of ourselves is, is very powerful as a leader, because then it ripples out into impacting a lot of people so that each of my people can become the highest version of themselves. And let's face it, everybody, if I create an environment in which my people will thrive, there's a lot less drama that I have to deal with on a daily basis, because they feel comfortable. And so, you know, it's creating culture, but creating culture for them, not you.

Ari Gronich 31:24  

Interesting. So as the leader, who's like, let's say, I'm a, I'm an owl, and I need to have those metrics met. My team is a bunch of parrots and doves, not very organized, right? But I still obviously need that stuff in order for me to do my job. So how does the to match? How do you get somebody who's a parent to do our work? And if not, then how does that work? get done. So it's not you just being the one doing all the work all the time? Well,

Merrick Roseberg 32:04  

the first thing I would say is, you always want to match people up to the role. If you want people to feel comfortable, when you're working in your style, it feeds you, when you're working out of your style. It's exhausting. So first thing is I would say, can you create and structure these roles so that each person gets to display the behaviors they enjoy, and they feel most comfortable. And once you've done that, everybody's going to be a lot happier. Now, look, obviously, there's going to be aspects of everybody's job, which you go, Oh, I just hate doing that. The parrot who has to track and record everything they do for sales, you know, they're reporting their sales data and documenting and submitting it is the part they hate the most. And that's why they often have an account manager, who's an owl who does all of that for them. So they can get on the phone and go out at meetings and go to networking events. But I would often ask our managers, when they say me, I need all this information. I always look at them. I go, do you? Did? Do you need all information? Like, let's take a look at what you really use out of everything you're asking for? What data do you actually use that has meaning and value that value for you that you can act on? And a lot of times, they've just been tracking data, because that's just what they've always done. So I would say to that, how can you maybe meet halfway so that you're the parent doesn't have to do so much tracking so much documentation and find a middle ground? I had this with my my CFO in my own organization. as a as a CEO, I should know what's happening in the company, I need to understand my numbers, I need to understand the data. But I'm a parent, Eagle Eye, just too much of that. It's just exhausting for me. And when we started, we created these these monthly financial meetings to tap in and check in. Okay, what happened that month? She brought like two hours worth of data. And I'm like, okay, like, we need to pare this down. Because Yeah, I don't have two hours worth of attention span. So and now we literally got down to about a half hour's worth of data that is the most important critical fundamental data I need to know. And she feels that I need to know. Now, there's definitely data there where I go, do I need that? Yeah, not sure. But she thinks I need to have it. Okay, we'll keep it we met somewhere in the middle. And you might think, wait, you went from two hours to a half hour? Didn't that swing a lot? Yeah. But there was a tremendous amount of data like client by client data, which I didn't need, right. And so so that's what I'm talking about is you find a way to meet in the middle, that you can be yourself but you also do what needs to get done.

Ari Gronich 34:35  

How does that work with in the family dynamic?

Merrick Roseberg 34:41  

So same thing, right? I mean, you have you've got a lot of times parents who impose their personality on their, on their children. As an example. Remember watching this father, these kids, the kids where I live, my house is like in a court so there's like some put up a basketball net, so the kids can play basketball without really being the path of traffic. And, and I remember one day one of the kids, he's such a strong dove. I mean, he plays the flute, he's just he's like, I just want to just play my flute, I just I don't I love that I don't, I don't really like getting out there playing basketball, everybody, you know, I'd rather sit on the side and just talk to one other person, or get on a bike with one person, we ride around the neighborhood and just talk. And as fathers, the strong Eagle, and his father's, like, get in there fight for the ball. And you know, the problem with that is, the message that the Father is saying is you need to be more like an eagle if you want to be successful in this world. In other words, you need to be more like me. But the underlying message is who you are. It's not okay. And so parents are often set send bad messages to their children, because they impose their personality on their kids. spouses do the same thing. We husbands and wives and partners do the exact same thing. They're, they're talking to each other. And your owl spouse is saying, this is how you put dishes in the dishwasher, it could be something so small, but it becomes a source of frustration, because the parents just sticking stuff in there. And I was like, stop doing that it's wrong. And the parents like, it's a dishwasher, I put the dishes in the I was like, No, there's a way you put the dishes and you are you are violating the system. And so they oftentimes just like they're butting heads, because they're each imposing their personality on each other. And whether it's as a spouse, or as our children, we have to recognize you have to honor the people's personalities around you. Or else you're sending a bad message that you know who they are isn't okay. And that's, that's not really good for somebody's self esteem, whether that's a spouse or whether it's a child.

Ari Gronich 36:52  

This is true. So let's, let's put the personalities with

Unknown Speaker 37:02  

with

Ari Gronich 37:04  

sorry, I'd lost my train of thought here for a second. We're going to put the response, okay, so the, the personalities are going to put them and attribute them to a set of conditions, right. So you need to clean the dishes, like you said, we're going to have the personality of each and how they do the dishes, right so that somebody can get an idea a dove is going to do the dishes this way a parrot is going to do the dishes that way. I just want to like I want to bring out I want to make this alive for the audience. I want them. Let's

Merrick Roseberg 37:52  

take something like cooking something very simple, like cooking dinner, you have an owl who has a has a menu, they have a recipe, they follow the recipe, exactly how it's taught to me, they're literally taking out their quarter teaspoon measuring spoon and their half teaspoon measurements, and they're flattening it off. And when they make something to make the exact same thing the exact same way. It is perfect dubs, they tend to rotate because they're very stable, and they don't like change. They tend to rotate around a few standard dishes. They make them all the time. It's Tuesday. It's pasta night. It's Thursday, it's you know, this is what we're eating. And, and they probably aren't trying a lot of new foods. It's just look, I know the family likes this. And so I make it for them. Parents can never make the same recipe the same way twice. Because, hey, I threw a little of this and I buy by the way I had some of this in my house. I threw that in I didn't really measure it. I'm not sure I do like it awesome. You should make this again. Wish I could I only remember what I put in there were the quantities I'd have to figure it out. They're they're daring. They like to try new foods like what's the worst thing that could happen? eagles are like eating their dinner out of the microwave over the over the sink because plates while I'm not burning another plate, it's fast. It's quick, whatever, just make it for me, let's go. You know, it's like, they want it fast. They want it quick. So each style is just a very different way of of take any topic and we give handling themselves and how they react and how they they model behaviors during that particular activity. Whether it's driving or whether it's cooking. It's all personality plays out in everything. You know, it's

Ari Gronich 39:42  

it's interesting to me because as I listened to you, I would have thought maybe I'm more of an owl because I'm fairly analytical. I like research. I like to hear the numbers right. And then when you mentioned how an Now I would cook, I will never, you probably never will see me caught with a recipe book in my hands ever, let alone measuring specific things more like that, you know, parrot for the cooking and Eagle for the for the eating?

Merrick Roseberg 40:21  

Well, we all have a little of everything in us. But there's probably one or two, which are like home base for you that nobody's just one that most people have at least two that are really strong.

Ari Gronich 40:32  

I feel like I am a fairly balanced of all four. Just based on on the conversation that we've that we've had, right, I have that analytical side, but then, you know, I have this little bit of I'm a results oriented, let's get stuff done kind of personality. But I'm not organized enough to actually do that. So I got the parent side and the creative energy. And then you know, of course, I love people and I'm empathetic. So.

Merrick Roseberg 41:03  

So that's the key Look, my last book was called the chameleon for that reason. That's what it's all about. It's about being the chameleon. It's about being the person who could be flexible and adaptable, no matter what is happening. I mean, take somebody like Oprah, and other self made billionaire, her Eagle, running her Empire and the amount of company she owns. I mean, you know, you don't generate billions of dollars in revenue from being a talk show host. There's something about what she does, but how she manages them is very out. I've met two people who worked with her, they said the exact same thing. There's no detail too small for Oprah, that she has to know everything about everything. So well. You can see her charisma on stage that you get a car you get a car, just so much energy, big smile, and her empathy. She cries with her guests, she hurt, donate so much money and time to different charitable causes. And, and philanthropy. It's it's Eagle parrot dove out. That's what I refer to as the chameleon. Somebody can do all for and adapt anyone

Ari Gronich 42:06  

nice, well, then I'm going to need to become a billionaire really quickly. So we'll have to work on that next. So let me let me go to this, you know, compassionate communication is all about the needs of the individual people finding their needs. So what personalities go with what needs

Merrick Roseberg 42:26  

so so when I think of compassionate communication, what I think is, I'm going to communicate to you in a way that you want to be communicated to so we might think it's just lives in the world of the dove, because doves need you to soften their language, they want you to be very sensitive and, and not abrasive or abrupt in any way. Even just the tone of voice, they just want to know that you're here and you're there for them. Whereas What do Eagles need, I always say, Be brief, be brilliant, be gone. For an eagle doesn't need a long preamble doesn't need a lot of emotional and energetic communication. Just tell them what they need to know. And they're happy. For the owl. They feel comfortable when they have the data, they have an inner need to understand why and to get the information. And if you look, for example, impose change on an hour without giving them information, time to acclimate to it, the logic behind what you're doing. They're going to feel uncomfortable. parrots, they need energy, they need positivity. The more positive you are, the more excited they get, the more energized you are, the more enthusiastic they are. They need to feel your energy. So you can see how different they are, from details to energy to sincerity to bottom line. We can't just treat everybody the same. We have to think about who we're talking to.

Unknown Speaker 43:53  

Cool.

Ari Gronich 43:55  

So then what is the biggest challenge that you've seen with people and their personalities these days?

Merrick Roseberg 44:06  

I think it's that we impose our personality on others that we think we think if I need something, they need it. If something's important to me, it's important to them. You have an eagle and a dove couple. And the eagle is very direct and straightforward. You know, I had this moment I was sitting in an airport A while back and I was watching this couple and and he turned to this was the moment I tuned into their interaction because they were getting louder. And he turns around, he says, I don't understand how effect is an effect. And she looked at him and she's like, Well, it's because of the way you said the fact that matters. He's like, it doesn't matter how you say effect. It's still a fact. And she was like Oh, yes, it does. And you can see this didn't make sense to him that he was expecting just to be factual and data driven, probably Owl and Eagle. She's a more sensitive dove. And he's now offended. Her. And now what's happening is they're now arguing about how they're arguing, instead of arguing about what they're arguing about, and I think this is the great problem is that we communicate in our own style. we impose it on people. We think people need what we need want, what we want, like what we like. And we don't realize that, look, if you want to be a compassionate communicator, and we want to treat people well, we have to think about their needs, not our own. And I think that's the fundamental issue is not imposing our style on others.

Unknown Speaker 45:33  

Hmm.

Ari Gronich 45:35  

If only that were possible,

Merrick Roseberg 45:38  

it is possible, but it takes it takes focus and intention. Only.

Ari Gronich 45:45  

We could see some way of that happening more often than not, Hmm, what might be some techniques that people can play with in order to create an environment that allows that to happen more often.

Merrick Roseberg 46:04  

The first step is self awareness, you have to understand your own style. And I said this earlier, the most self aware people tend to be the happiest people, they tend to have the healthiest relationships, because they understand themselves, and they understand how they're treating other people. And so the first step is, you have to understand your own style, or else you're just destined to impose it on the people around you. So you've got to understand, am I an eagle, parrot dove, or an L? And am I using my style? Well, or am I overusing it. And now, it's the weakness or the shadow side of my personality. So first is understand yourself. The next step, now I have to understand who am I talking to? Am I talking to an eagle, a parent or a dove or an owl? And if I understand their style, can I be flexible and adaptable, and, and not impose my style on them, but rather, treat them the way they need to be treated? And so it's if I were just gonna give you a couple steps, it's, you got to know yourself, you've got to be able to read people quickly. And you have to be able to flex. I mean, imagine the world we live in if we did that. I could read your style fast, and I treat you how you want to be treated. How would relationships be that right?

Ari Gronich 47:16  

Yeah, you know, it goes against the golden rule, treat people the way you want to be treated? No, no, treat them the way that they would want to be treated.

Merrick Roseberg 47:24  

it you know, it's funny, I talk about that a lot. And I always say like, I'm not invalidating the golden rule. The Golden Rule holds true for virtues. In other words, I should treat you how you want to be treated in terms of kindness, fairness, respect, compassion, integrity, honesty, reliability, all of these great virtues. Yes, I should treat you how I want to be treated. But in terms of style, how I do that, how I communicate to you, that's when I need to treat you how you want to be treated, not how I want to be treated. So they're both true. I mean, underlying both of those is, in fact, respect.

Ari Gronich 47:59  

Yeah, I just want to invalidate the golden rule a little bit more. By saying that we do not want people to treat us the way we treat ourselves, being we treat ourselves more rapidly than anybody could possibly ever treat us, in my opinion, the self talk that we have. So we do not want to be treated the way that we treat ourselves, let alone the way we want to be treated. Because we don't treat ourselves very nicely.

Merrick Roseberg 48:30  

Yeah, I agree. We have a very loud internal critic. In fact, some styles have a louder internal critic, dubs and owls tend to have a louder internal critic than parrots and Eagles do. Yeah, I love this quote. It was when I when I was 20 years old, I really cared about what people thought about me. Then I was 40 years old. And I no longer cared about what people thought about me. But when I was 60 years old, I realized nobody was thinking about me at all. It's like, yeah, worried all that time for nothing. No one cares. We have a very loud internal critic. I think that is very true.

Ari Gronich 49:10  

Yes, we've got to do something about about that guy. You know, and it's funny because I would assume that most parents are you know, most comedians are parents. Right? I would assume

Merrick Roseberg 49:25  

not not necessarily we think that hey, now you can name a lot of parrot comedians but take like a Jerry Seinfeld he was an owl or he's an owl he's very logical and meticulous he dissects the world George Carlin was an owl actually, a lot of comedians are surprisingly owls, because they take things apart, they notice things and then they expand on him. So it is interesting. We we think their parents, but a lot are actually I was it's definitely true. I mean, Robin Williams say, you know,

Ari Gronich 49:51  

right. And they and they don't have very much of that inner critic

Merrick Roseberg 49:56  

right. They they have a a More outward critic. In other words, the eagles and parrots when things go wrong, they don't necessarily equate what happened to them as a person. In other words, when something goes wrong for an owl or a dove, they say, well, it's like, I should have thought of this. I can't believe I didn't plan this, I can't believe I didn't think this through and they blame themselves. When a parent or an eagle, something goes wrong for them, they go, things happen. We had learning, what are you gonna do, I'll fix it next time. So they don't beat themselves up as much as the owls. And the dogs tend to do.

Ari Gronich 50:42  

Okay, so then I want to know this right now. Right now, right now, I want to know how to take the best parts of each personality, embed them in my spirit and soul, and personality, and dismiss all of those other behaviors from the other personalities. So how does one, start learning how to accentuate the positive, while the sensual hitting

Merrick Roseberg 51:12  

the negative? Well, remember, the negative isn't, so there's no inherently negative style, the negative is in the overuse, it's in the eagle becomes aggressive parrot becomes so optimistic, it's unrealistic, dove becomes passive and gets stepped on our will become so self critical, and of themselves and others that it's not a matter of, of taking on or getting rid of one of the styles, it's a matter of making sure you're using your style, at a healthy level. So if you're using so if there's two things that go on one, you use your style at a healthy level, that's powerful, because you're going to be the highest version of yourself. But you also be need to be able to tap into the other three. So you need to, because there will be moments, you need to be able to stand in your power and be assertive as an eagle when you need to be, you need to dial up energy and enthusiasm as a parent, when you need it. You need to dial up compassion and sincerity of the dub, you need to be able to focus on the details and make detailed data driven decisions when you need to. And And so, if you can't do one of those four, it's a blind spot, it's going to get you in trouble. But what I would say is, you don't have to make them a part of your personality, let's say I'm a strong dove, I don't need to become an eagle, I just need to make sure that when there's times I need to stand in my power and speak my voice and say my truth that I can do it, it's probably going to be uncomfortable, it's probably gonna take energy, because anytime you work out of your natural mode, it takes energy. But the key is to be able to be able to tap into all four of them, not to change yourself into all four of them.

Ari Gronich 52:57  

And I was hoping I could just stick a you know, thing on the back of my skull and matrix that matrix it all in my head.

Merrick Roseberg 53:05  

Just download it in. Exactly,

Ari Gronich 53:08  

you know, disappointed me Merrick here. I mean, I'm trying to trying to get this stuff inside my soul. Really, what I want for the audience is for them to get it into their soul. And so, you know, let's talk about how we use these personality types for the most optimal, you know, level. I mean, obviously, I'm known as the performance therapist, and I'm all about Performance and Results. Don't know what personality type that particular thing makes me but I'd say that's probably a combination, because I like to have fun while I'm, you know, producing results, and I'm compassionate about it. But you know, I'm a results guy. So let's talk about results. How do we optimize ourselves within these personality types? What techniques what ways would you like? Are there books to read and study? Are there things to do? What What would you suggest? Well,

Merrick Roseberg 54:19  

the first thing is, are you in a role in which you can be the highest version of yourself? In other words, have you ever seen a parent who's been in a job where they have to attract data and they if they are sitting at a desk for eight hours a day with very little human interaction? By the time they go home, they are absolutely exhausted. Or an owl who has to be out networking and schmoozing and having these you know, getting up on stage, I mean, they can they do it short, anybody can display any behavior, but it's exhausting. The first thing I would say is, are you in a role that allows you to be you? Because if you're not You're going to go home every single day exhausted. And I think that's, you know how many times that's the key how many people have had a job, where they were in a job, and they felt like they were just drowning. And then they move to a new job. And they were like, ah, I can breathe again, because they're being themself. So the first thing is, if you are in a role where you get to be you, you're not going to have to try to flex so much, you're not going to have to take on other behaviors, because you just get to be you, as a parrot. I get to go on stage, I get to talk to people at conferences, when we have conferences, you know, I get to be out there, I get to be in front of people, and I get to network and talk to people. I'm like living my highest version of myself. Now. When I first started doing this, I was booking flights and hotels and coordinating logistics, and oh, my god, there's so much detail that you don't see, it's like a concert, you don't realize everything that had to happen to make that two hour show take place. But what do I do? It was exhausting. So I hire somebody who's going to be the hour, who's going to allow me to do what I like. And they get to do what they like. Like, I'm not dumping all this logistical stuff on the on this person that I don't like I'm giving them the bad stuff. They like doing it. And so the first thing you have to do is, is make sure you're in a role that feeds you. As opposed to depletes you. I mean, have you ever had that in your career where you were like, you had a job, and you just went home every day and you're like, exhausted, and then you finally get to do what you love? And you feel like you can breathe now?

Ari Gronich 56:38  

Yeah, so I've been lucky enough that I've pretty much been my own boss since I was 18. However, I've been unlucky in the fact that I've been my own boss, since I was 18. And therefore, the things that I have no interest in doing, I've done. And yeah, I'll tell you, the things that that make me the most depleted are doing the things that I am absolutely not good at. Not in my brain, not in my focus, not in my, my wheelhouse. You know, I tell people, like you put a body in front of me, I could pretty much turn it into anything that it wants to be whether it's compassion, you know, competition, whatever I could, I could make the body heal and perform at peak levels that the body never thought it could do. But put me onto digital marketing, and I can't make anything perform for any reason whatsoever.

Merrick Roseberg 57:49  

And so what that means is you shouldn't be doing, right. Oh, right, find someone who's passionate about it, and is going to do it at a higher level. And I often ask my staff this question, in fact, we're coming up on the end of the year, I always do this with my staff, the at the end of every year, I meet with my team, and I say to each one of them. If there's one thing that I could take off your plate, that would make you happier, what is it Now keep in mind, it could be something they've been doing for 10 years, and they're very good at it. But they're just done. It's just not them anymore. It's not where they want to be putting their energy. And over the years, I've shuffled lots of roles and responsibilities, we've hired new people to create new roles. Because I want people to be fed by what they do. I mean, imagine the productivity. Imagine the joy you get from work, when you get to do what you like, and don't have to do the things you don't like, well, as a leader, I want to get those things off their plate. It's not serving them. It's not serving me and the company either. And so it's it's understanding what feeds you and what deeply to and then you start being the highest version of yourself, get all the rest of that stuff off your plate. Because when you get all that little stuff that drives you crazy off your plate, you have now way more time and energy to do more of what you do like and then work feels like pleasure. It doesn't feel like work at all.

Ari Gronich 59:12  

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I love getting on stage. I love speaking. I like seeing the looks on the faces of the audience when they get a haws and lightbulbs pop over their heads. I love that. And then I want to run into my hotel room and I want to relax for a little while. I don't want to take a break. And I want to rejuvenate and then I want to go back out. Right? It's that introverted extrovert side of me. I think that being a Gemini I'm just screwy with all personalities all at once jumbled inside my my head What do you think?

Merrick Roseberg 59:55  

We all have them all. You know my parrot and my Eagle are pretty strong, but there are Absolutely moments where I'm in alamode. And there are moments where I'm in dove mode, you know, we all have them. The key is to tap into the right one at the right time. Using the right style at the right moment, and knowing how to use the four styles. Well, and when the buttons Yeah, when that be great.

Ari Gronich 1:00:18  

Push the button owl button. I need Eagle right now Eagle Eagle has landed. Yep, push the book.

Merrick Roseberg 1:00:26  

You know, I we have people walk into my office. And we have we have these little guys here we have these desktop birds right where you walk in. And if I'm, if there are times where like, I, I just got back, I was on the road for four days. And I'm going to be on the road for the next three. And I've got eight hours to get a lot done. And I put the eagle out and I'm like, Alright, I'm in Eagle mode, meaning come into my office. I am not in parrot dove mode, come in schmooze talk, see what's happening. You've got to come in, tell me what you need to tell me. And and head on out because I've got a lot to do in a short window. And so we use the birds as kind of a communication tool to say, hey, I want to talk to you. I want to answer your questions. But be direct, be succinct, because I got a lot to do right now. And so they become a to a tool that people can use picture in relationships, where I'm a parrot, my wife is an owl. And she asked me a question and I say, oh, all you do is this. And she looks at me and she goes, owl. And I'm like, okay, so let me walk you through it. First, you need to do this, this and this. Now as you go through it a few things you want to think about? It becomes a communication tool to be able to use the birds in a way that gives you a language that is non judgmental. There's that was that interaction wasn't You're such a parrot. And how would you Why would you talk to me like that? It's like, and then I'll remember my needs. Here's what I need. I need you to be more of an owl right now. I'm sure anybody can display that any behavior. So it becomes a language that we have to use?

Ari Gronich 1:02:01  

Should there be practice groups for this?

Merrick Roseberg 1:02:04  

I you know, I think we have practice groups. They're all around us. I think we we have co workers where they're all different styles, our family members are all different styles. There, we are experiencing it every single day. Every person you interact with is a person to practice it with.

Ari Gronich 1:02:21  

So we should call this season, the holiday practice group season. Because we got Thanksgiving, and Halloween and Christmas and Hanukkah and all these different holidays right now that people are getting an opportunity to practice their personalities with their family, the biggest triggers to those personalities. So any suggestions during this time of year for families? What you know, what are some things that they can actually do to shift their family dynamics maybe and have a, you know, more peaceful holiday season with each other?

Merrick Roseberg 1:03:05  

Yeah, I think one is thought process. One is behavior. You know, from a thought process perspective, it's recognizing that they are just being who they are, that remove the judgment. So on a thanks, Thanksgiving, when my wife is, is coordinating things, and I want to be helpful. And she says to me, I just need you to set the table. And then I go and I set the dining room table. And then I walk by the dining room table a little while later. And I realize I have a magic dining room table. That resets itself, because clearly, I did not set it properly. Now, I could get very offended by that. But actually I say she's an owl. She has a specific way. It's fine. Yeah, I bought over the years, I have learned by the way. Now I say, why don't you set one of the place settings, and I'll replicate it. See, I've had learning. But But early on, I would have got I was getting frustrated like well, why are you asking me if you're just going to redo it anyway. And it became conflict. Now it's just tease the owl, she has a specific way. I'm not offended by that. So so if you understand who someone is, the judgment goes away the conflict and drama goes away. The second is let people do what they're good at. You know, here, why don't you organize where everybody is going to sit? This is your the dove, you really care about making sure people are next. Do you have an opinion about this? And you're very concerned that everybody's happy. So why don't you take that? Or you are the parent? Hey, maybe we're gonna do some fun activities. Maybe we're having a zoom Thanksgiving or zoom holiday party. It's happening around the country. Hey, why don't you come up with some activities? Got it. You give us zoom, you know, team building activity to an hour. They're like, Well, what do you do? What do you want me to do? And the parents like, I'll make something up. So it's one it's understanding the people around you I'm not judging them for who they are. But to tap into their strengths, let them do what they're good at. And everybody gets a moment to shine. So it's like, imagine that world where we don't judge each other, we let people accentuate their strengths. In a family, the drama goes away in a business environment, that's a productive team.

Ari Gronich 1:05:19  

Nice. Wow, this is a, I could go on and on. I could have, I could have these conversations with you. For a while I have a friend who at one point created something similar, more of a sales tool with personality types. And he assigned them all animal types. One of them is my one of my types, I have to I'm actually on the cusp of two of these one is the architect owl. So again, you can already hear from what architect owl is what the kind of personality which is very similar, actually, to the personality type that you prescribe to owl. So therefore, you can kind of see how how these things can match up a bit. The other one was a cuddly bear or something like that. Ugly Teddy Bear, as very dark, like, the only difference between the two was, one is head. And one is heart. So bear was heart, architect owl was head. And it's just a matter of, again, for sales. Where does this person make their decisions? And they're harder in their head? Sure. But, you know, it was interesting that I always had I took the test a number of times always had the same, just like when I take the test for NLP, I always get the exact same answer. I am 100%, an AK, which is auditory kinesthetic, which basically means we need to do stuff in order to learn stuff. And we have a committee inside of a committee inside of a committee inside of our heads. So anything that you might say to us needs to go through the filter of committee, after committee after committee in order for us to process it and get it to where we actually know what you're saying. Kind of interesting.

Merrick Roseberg 1:07:29  

Sure. And it sounds very dove and owl like you get the dove who lives in the world of heart, the owl who lives in the world of head, that's they blend together very well, it's they tend to be someone who really cares about others, but they like to do things a specific way. Yes, I

Ari Gronich 1:07:44  

like my dishwasher, filled in a very specific way.

Merrick Roseberg 1:07:51  

Because it's wrong any other way.

Ari Gronich 1:07:54  

Absolutely inefficient any other way. There is an efficient way and a non efficient way. I don't like to say wrong or right. I like to say my way or your way, but but you kind of get the idea. It's, it's To me, it's like it's either efficient, or it's not efficient. It's not both, it's efficient, or not efficient. If it takes you

Merrick Roseberg 1:08:17  

sounds very altuve, like

Ari Gronich 1:08:20  

10 hours, that's not efficient. If it takes half an hour, that's sufficient. These are all facts, right? So I get myself in trouble with with my prescribed knowing of how something should be. And so I want I want people to kind of get this conversation that they might be having in their own head. But I know it's right. I know, it's the way it should be. I know it's the best way and the most optimal and, and wait a minute and some and it's my way. So therefore, you should do it my way, right? Because it's sufficient. But so let's let's unpack that, as I know, we've done it a little bit in, you know, prior in the conversation, but let's unpack it a little bit for people because I think that inside people's heads they have these conversations a lot.

Merrick Roseberg 1:09:16  

Yeah. But George Carlin I love this quote, he said, Everyone driving slower than me is an idiot. And everyone driving faster than me is a maniac. It's that that feeling that there's not just it's not just a way, it's not even my way. It is the way and I talk a lot about that when I work with groups and I and then people and I say look, we have an inner belief that that the way we do things is the way it is. But what we have to shift to is it is the way it is for you. And that for other people that may not be their reality that may not be Their path or the way they do things are what works for them. And, and, and that's the challenge that we have to get to is that maybe there are you know that there are many paths to the top of the mountain and we each must find our own way, you know, that kind of Japanese kind of Maxim right? You know, maybe, maybe you all get to the top of the mountain, but you get there differently. Howard, Howard Schultz from Starbucks. They, I mean, that is the essence of dove leadership. It's, it's, he's he spent they spend more money on employee benefits, not salary, but benefits than they do on coffee beans. And why is that for a fast food restaurant, like you go through a drive food, drive thru, you pick up your coffee, and you're out, the only unless you park yourself there to write a book, but I mean, most you're in and out,

Ari Gronich 1:10:49  

they charge five bucks for a cup of 10 cents.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:54  

It could be that.

Merrick Roseberg 1:10:57  

But But what you get is a company that cares about culture, they care about their people, they invest so much money in their people, because that's dove leadership. And for him, it works. And it has created an incredible Empire. I mean, before Starbucks, really, coffee came in a little styrofoam cup, and it cost a buck. No one would have ever thought you could sell coffee for $5. I mean, go back to the 80s. I mean, not that far, when you got a cup of coffee, you came in a styrofoam cup, and it had little plastic lid and you bent the top back. And that was your coffee, and it was $1. That's not through today's world. And, and but he created in in a very dove way. And I think that we have to recognize that, that, you know, Steve Jobs was more of an eagle. He said, I don't care about customer research. People don't know what they want until I give them what they want. And then they'll be happy that they got it. And that's an eagle who just says an owl could never lead like that. And I would say that is fundamentally the wrong way of leading an organization. You go out you do research to what people want, you create it, you sell it. You can't run a company like this. Yeah, well, Steve Jobs reinvented through Apple, a lot of industries. I mean, it's incredible what the iPhone and everything Steve Jobs did throughout his to change the music industry. I mean, through Pixar changed movies, and it's just incredible everything he did. And what we have to recognize is, maybe there are other ways to look at the world, and they're okay. And that's the that's the piece we have to get to.

Ari Gronich 1:12:24  

Yeah, you know, the the, the thing that I learned most doing these podcasts interviews, is listening skills. And I no longer have to listen for what I'm going to respond with next, which is why I fumble and mumble my words every now and then. But I get to listen for the understanding of what the person is trying to tell me so that when I respond, I respond, having just gained an extra layer of knowledge that I get to repeat and learn again, right. So I learned it from you talking the first time, learn it from listening to understand it, and then I learned it from repeating it back to you. And I've learned that this is probably one of the greatest gifts out of doing these podcast interviews. And, and I thought I was a good listener before. I mean, I've studied it, I've you know, been in organizations where we had to practice listening. But, you know, it goes to that different level. So the other thing that I've heard, as I've listened to people in these podcast interviews, is probably the greatest. What would be the greatest shift and change for the people in our country, which is to begin to listen again. With the listening for understanding versus the listening for reacting and responding.

Merrick Roseberg 1:14:14  

And judging.

Ari Gronich 1:14:16  

Yeah, and especially judging. Just remember all you Christians out there, Jesus said no judgement. But then again, so did you know every other part of religion in general, so I just like to talk in, you know, nun voices every now and then.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:40  

Children.

Merrick Roseberg 1:14:42  

Oh, but what I love about what you said, though, is just that, yeah, no two people come together for the benefit of just one that that we you, as a host of a show get to learn from the people you're interacting with. And that's what we should be doing on a daily basis. Like if I want to learn how to treat dogs I just need to pay attention to how they treat me because we tend to treat others how we want to be treated. If you want to know what an eagle needs from you, just look how an eagle treats you with how the Eagles treat the people around you. If you really listen to how they are speaking to you, that's the window into how you should be speaking to them. Because we do this all the time we treat people the way we want to be treated. If we can develop that muscle on listening is like a muscle. It's like the more you practice it, the stronger it gets. When you can listen and tune into how people are treating you. They are revealing what they need from you. And that's it's very powerful, because it's right there. They're just telling you what they need from you.

Ari Gronich 1:15:44  

Yeah, you know, I've studied the love languages. Have you studied the love languages? Absolutely. Yeah. And they,

Merrick Roseberg 1:15:50  

there's they all parallel, I've always said I could take each love language and infuse the birds into each one.

Ari Gronich 1:15:55  

Alright, so let's, let's go love language. I'll go with my first two and then the rest. So we're going to go with quality touch.

Merrick Roseberg 1:16:05  

Right now, think about think about quality touch Eagle versus dove. Do you think there's the same level of sensitivity or softness, and an eagle touch versus a Duff's touch?

Ari Gronich 1:16:20  

Very different,

Merrick Roseberg 1:16:21  

very different. But if you're an eagle, and you touch a dove, it's probably it may not have the softness the that personal connection in the same way that that it does, like I picture like the eagle who's walking along and they're like, hey, and like boom, hi fi you know, or like, reach over grab somebody's hand. Where's the dove reaches over to their partner and they are the Pat. Yeah. Or that. Hey, hey, the double Pat. Exactly where is the dove reaches over and they kind of rub your back for a second. Like, hey, it's so nice to see you. Alright, there's a even in the handshake. It's not like the killer grip of Eagle. It's the double. So nice to see the double palm grab. But you can just see something just as an example. You have to think about that. Who am I interacting with?

Ari Gronich 1:17:09  

Exactly. Okay, quality, time.

Merrick Roseberg 1:17:11  

Quality, time. quality time for a parrot is different than quiet. I'll pick different ones is different than a quality time for a dove. parrot quality time is Let's go. Let's go out. We'll have an adventure. We'll do something fun. It'll be crazy. It'll be awesome. We'll have a good time together. quality time for the dove might be Hey, we just make a nice dinner. And we get to talk for a while.

Ari Gronich 1:17:33  

huddle. You forget to cuddle we can

Merrick Roseberg 1:17:34  

we watch a movie on the couch and cuddle we got right. But notice quality time very different. Big Adventure. cuddling on the couch.

Ari Gronich 1:17:42  

Yeah, so an owl might be you know, having a conversation like this for instance.

Merrick Roseberg 1:17:48  

Yeah. Or Yeah, taking something apart. like wow, let's let's do something together. My wife has an owl. She she has done so many puzzles throughout the pandemic. She and I we do them together. And I I said that, but I have to put music on. And I'm always talking and she's like, can't we just do the puzzle and I'm like, we can do the puzzle. But can't we talk to infuse some parrot Alright, I'll be the owl I'll do the puzzle. But you got to put music on in the background, I have to have conversation. I narrate the puzzle.

Ari Gronich 1:18:20  

Alright, um, acts of

Merrick Roseberg 1:18:24  

service, acts of service. Now, it's interesting, because it takes eagles and dubs for example, Eagle acts of service might be just, hey, I've got a friend of mine, they need help. I'm gonna go do it. You know, you can count on me. I'll be there to help you in any way. But an act of service for a dove should have be very personal and not looking for the Thank you. They're just you're doing it because I care. And I care about you. And I want to be here for you. And so even the tone, the way you're offering help, is very different. Like, I just want to be here for you. versus what do you need? I'll do it. He can hear the difference between an eagle and adopt for example.

Ari Gronich 1:19:06  

Yes.

Merrick Roseberg 1:19:09  

Let's see. Like words of affirmation, right. So words of affirmation. So imagine owl versus parrot. And you just want to recognize something they did. So for a parrot you say? That was awesome. I mean, you were amazing. I can't even tell you how much I appreciate it. You knocked it out of the park. You were there. You made it happen. I love it. Awesome. Do you think that's good? words of affirmation for an owl? No. No, I want to thank you when you did this for me. That really meant a lot to me. When you did also when you did this, this and this. You know that took a lot of time and energy and I appreciate it. Now as you went through that a few things right or for the dove. It's just I appreciate you because What you did that just meant so much to me? It's just about sincere appreciation. Hey, I wanted to thank you. I mean, you got that Eagle mode. When you did this You helped me get this done. Appreciate it. Right like, like it's they're fundamentally different Eagles about the results dubs about sincerity Al's about the specifics parrots about the energy, those words of affirmation and how you talk to them vary depending upon the person.

Ari Gronich 1:20:28  

Last but not least, is gifts.

Merrick Roseberg 1:20:31  

Yes, when you show gifts of appreciation, very, very different. You know, I have this my my brother in law, and my sister, my sisters is the Duff, I mean, very strong. My brother in law's got like that owl, an eagle. And I always think back to this moment, where, after their very first Valentine's Day together, he gets her. He gets her, he goes to the store, and he just gets her regular card. And he writes in her name, and then signs it. And she's like, what the hell like you'd like that's what you did for Valentine's Day. Because it's not personal. So. So he then goes out the next year. And he he gets a card, and he gets a box of chocolate. And he goes, and he hands it to and he's like, so he's like, here you go. And she's like, no, it's not Here you go. It's, I thought you'd really enjoy this. Like, like he couldn't get it right. And so one year, this is like five years later, he says, he turns around, he goes, he goes, he goes, I got it this year. He's like, I wrote a personal card that I hand wrote, I bought her flowers, her favorite kind of flowers, I went to this place that makes homemade chocolate. And I picked out her favorite chocolates. And I wrote about how much she means to me, and how important she is in my life. And I handed her the card. And I handed her the chocolates. And I handed her the flowers. And she was like, started to have tears in her eyes. And I looked at her and he goes, I just don't get your sister because I looked at her. And I said, so did I do it? Did I do it? Right? Was this right this year? And I'm like, Oh, you were so close. You were right there. I mean, literally right there. You just erased the whole thing. Like, you know, it's just like the gift for the dove needs to just be so genuinely sincere and come from the heart. It's not Did I do it right? Was that it? You can hear the difference the owls trying? I was trying to do it. But just as an example, you can see what means something to one person may be very different to another. And we imagine infusing the birds into those love languages. And this is the power of what we're talking about is that when you really treat people the way they want to be treated, they feel that connection from you. And it's it's, it's very emotionally connecting. But if you are imposing your style on them, it may not have any value even though you bought a gift, it didn't really mean much. You got the card, but you just signed your name and didn't mean much to the DOP. Right? If you wrote something, it would mean something.

Ari Gronich 1:23:06  

Yeah, I think I think that's a good note, to leave the audience on. And, as always, I asked, you know, for two to three, maybe four tips, tricks, things that somebody can act upon immediately. I think you just gave one I'm gonna have you repeat it. But yeah, just what are some things that people can do to create their new tomorrow today? Well,

Merrick Roseberg 1:23:34  

the first piece is going into you got, as I said earlier, got to have that level of self awareness. recognize your bird style, so you're aren't imposing it on others. I would take a variety of things like amount of information, how much information do you provide the people around you, you provide an owl very different than the amount of information you provide an eagle or a parrot. So start tuning into how much information you're communicating, start tuning into how you're communicating to the people around you. Is it very directly and bluntly like an eagle? Is it softer? Like a dub? Is it more logical? like an owl? Is it energetic, like a parrot? How are you coming across to the people around you? And are you imposing your style on them? So start taking a look at just communication is a great place? How much information you share? How do you share it? And are you treating them? How you want to be treated? Or are you treating them how they want to be treated? And if we honor people who are who they are. You create strong relationships. If you honor yourself and put yourself in a role were in a place where your style strengths can shine, man, you're just going to be able to accomplish anything. But if you are in a in a role or in a job that you have to constantly do things that are outside of your personality. It's going to be exhausting. You can never be the highest version of yourself when your job exhausts you every day. Find ways to do what is meaningful. To you,

Ari Gronich 1:25:00  

awesome. And that's a really good reminder for any HR rep CEO, CFO, who's thinking of treating their employees, like their deficit on the balance sheet instead of an asset is, you know, if you want them to be an asset for you treat them the way they need to be treated for their personality. And you'll get more out of them. And so that is, that's awesome. And I really appreciate you being here. And all of this information that you've laid down on, on the crowd. So how can somebody get ahold of you, if they want to get a hold of you,

Merrick Roseberg 1:25:39  

you can go to take flightlearning.com. And you can discover just the range of training programs that we have there, and you can reach out and on Twitter, it's at Merrick . And also on LinkedIn, connect with me. And I always try to put a little daily dose of bird wisdom so people can keep learning about the styles.

Ari Gronich 1:26:01  

Awesome, awesome. And so I'm imagining that this book take flight is not about being a pilot.

Merrick Roseberg 1:26:10  

It is not it both taking flight and the chameleon are taking flight is one long fable that allows you to see the birds in action and then the second half of the book is okay, now how do you apply it in your life? It's kind of like writing a movie. The next book the chameleon was like writing a series in a season of a sitcom has 22 fables like each one's a different episode? Sometimes eagles and parrots sometimes doves analysis, sometimes all four, with the all knowing chameleon that teaches you about yourself. And each each one of those fables has a different lesson of how to apply the styles in your life. And so they're fun. You'll see yourself in the stories are these good? Yeah, they're really for adults. But I've had many people say to me that they've sat and they read them with their children. I've had many people say they get the audio book and they just they drive and listen to a fable and then turn it off and then have a whole conversation with the family about how that is playing out. Within that that family itself. So kids will

Ari Gronich 1:27:10  

get it. Yeah, awesome. So we'll we'll see about being able to get a link or something for an E book or an audio book or whatever we can do for the audience so that they can check you out, check out your book, and, and hopefully, learn a little bit about personalities, help themselves move into a new tomorrow and activate their vision for a better world. I am your host, Ari Gronich. This has been a fantastic episode, talking to Merrick about personalities and birds, and you know, the birds and the bees. With regards to personalities, having this amazing amount of information for both corporations as well as relationships is great. So, thank you so much. We would love it if you would like review, rate, comment, subscribe, participate in a conversation about this information. We'll we'll look forward to hearing from you and talking to you. So thank you so much. We'll be with you again next time. Thank you for listening to this podcast. I appreciate all you do to create a new tomorrow for yourself and those around you. If you'd like to take this information further and are interested in joining a community of like minded people who are all passionate about activating their vision for a better world. Go to the website, create a new tomorrow.com and find out how you can be part of making a bigger difference. I have a gift for you just for checking it out and look forward to seeing you take the leap and joining our private paid mastermind community. Until then, see you on the next episode.