In 2011, E.L. James published the erotic romance Fifty Shades of Grey, which became one of the best-selling books of the 21st century. However, critics quickly pointed to its problematic depictions of BDSM practices and relationships at large, despite its massive readership. Now, a decade after publication, Mackenzie and Lily talk to Kim Pham, founder of food company Omsom who's been open about her BDSM journey, about the misconceptions surrounding kink, fetish, and BDSM—and what we all need to know instead.

Content warning: Discussions of abusive and manipulative relationships, sexual assault, and sexual violence.

Spoiler timestamp: This episode contains spoilers of Fifty Shades of Grey by E.L. James from 53:48-1:22:22.

Introduction (0:00), Housekeeping (1:40), Introduction to Main Topic (2:32), Introduction to Kim Pham (9:15), Discussion of Major BDSM, Kink, and Fetish Definitions (13:47), Question About How the Internet Gate-Keeps Sex-Positive Content (17:16), Discussion of Common Misconceptions About BDSM (18:40), Discussion of Common Misconceptions That Seemingly Well-Informed People Have (21:19), Examples of Kink That Isn’t Physical or Sexual (23:48), Discussion of How Pop Culture Gets BDSM Wrong and What Better Depictions Look Like (28:15), Discussion of Aftercare (35:25), Discussion of Resources for BDSM Newbies (41:20), Kim’s Concluding Points (50:17), SPOILERS: Discussion of Fifty Shades of Grey (53:48), What Else We’re Reading (1:22:22), Conclusion (1:28:04).

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Friends to Lovers is a Bad Bitch Book Club podcast hosted by BBBC founder Mackenzie Newcomb and writer, editor, and bestie Lily Herman. Each week, they use books as a jumping off point to talk about sex, relationships, dating, love, romance, and more.

Podcast logo by MKW Creative Co. (https://mkwcreative.co/) and music by Eliza Rose Vera (http://www.elizarosevera.com).