“We Got Comfortable With The Unknown”: A conversation with Mary Tapolski of the Forcht Center for Entrepreneurship

Released Monday, 13th August 2018
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Quiet confidence, that’s what comes to mind when I think of Mary; the kind of person who can inspire you to conquer the world with just a few words, or can tell you that your idea is legitimately terrible, and you walk away respecting her even more.
She can command the room if she needs to, but she’s also satisfied to help others forge ahead by blowing wind into their sales. That’s Mary. She shares what it looks like to sacrifice when you and your spouse are both on fast-track career paths. Mary talks about the struggles and triumphs in her story, and how grit played a central role in keeping it all together.
Be kind to yourself.Tweet This I met Mary at a startup business training course, called LaunchIt, here in Louisville, where she was serving as the director of the program.
Throughout our time together, I regularly approached her about the tensions we talk about on this podcast; questions like, how smart is it to pursue a business opportunity when you’ve got a wife, four small kids, and a mortgage? How do you know when to shut down that venture and do something more traditional for a while?
Episode Highlights
[0:10] “How smart is it to pursue a business opportunity when you’ve got a wife, four small kids, and a mortgage?” Phillip’s question to Mary, Director of start-up business training course, LaunchIt
[1:40] Bioengineering, Management Development, Computer Science, and two PhDs in Chemistry–Mary’s family on the path to success
[3:48] What is LaunchIt? (and what it does to support start-up businesses)
[5:13] How Mary and her husband reacted when success at work started to threaten success at home
[8:18] Who quits their job to take care of the kids? What Mary would say to a married couple with high-power career tracks
[13:03] What Mary says is the key to giving one-hundred percent both at home and work
[15:55] Why Mary believes starting a business should be a family decision
[19:05] Becoming comfortable with the uncomfortable. How 18 months became 10 years for Mary’s family in Boulder
[20:55] How Mary’s husband’s big commute affected their family
[23:33] Mary’s advice to anyone who wants to crush it at work and still be fully present with their family
[24:46] The 3 books that Mary thinks all entrepreneurs should read
[26:10] How Mary defines success for her family, her work, and herself personally
[29:00] What questions has this podcast sparked in you? How you can get in contact with Mary
Resources
 
You need to get comfortable with the unknown.Tweet This  
Special Thanks for Shelbyville Pharmacy for Sponsoring Season 1 of Home For Dinner.  Check out their website, or see what’s happening on Facebook!
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Read Full Transcript
Philip Devine: Quiet confidence, that’s what comes to mind when I think of Mary; the kind of person who can inspire you to conquer the world with just a few words, or can tell you that your idea is legitimately terrible, and you walk away respecting her even more. She can command the room if she needs to, but she’s also satisfied to help others forge ahead by blowing wind into their sales. That’s Mary. She shares what it looks like to sacrifice when you and your spouse are both on fast-track career paths. Mary talks about the struggles and triumphs in her story, and how grit played a central role in keeping it all together.
Philip Devine: I met Mary at a startup business training course, called LaunchIt, here in Louisville, where she was serving as the director of the program. Throughout our time together, I regularly approached her about the tensions we talk about on this podcast; questions like, how smart is it to pursue a business opportunity when you’ve got a wife, four small kids, and a mortgage? How do you know when to shut down that venture and do something more traditional for a while? So, that’s the question. Can you be a successful entrepreneur, and still have a healthy, growing family life?
Philip Devine: Welcome to Home For Dinner, a series focused on exploring that very question. Maybe you can have it all, or maybe not.
Philip Devine: Mary, can you tell us a little bit about your family and your background, how long you’ve been married, and that kind of thing?
Mary Tapolsky: So, I’ve been married for almost 28 years. And my husband, Gilles, works in the startup area as well. I have three children. My oldest is almost 25, and she’s working on her master’s in bioengineering here at the University of Louisville. My second daughter is 23, almost, and she graduated from Vassar College, and is now working in her first paying job at M&T Bank in Buffalo, New York, and in the management development program there. And my youngest is Matthew, and he’s at Boston College, working on a computer science degree.
Philip Devine: Those are, by most people’s definitions, either they are successful, or they’re on the path to success. What about you? You have a PhD in chemistry.
Mary Tapolsky: Correct. So as you said, I have a PhD in chemistry from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. And then, I spent 10 years doing R and D, research and development, both in, six years in France, and then three years at a biotech startup in Houston, Texas. And then, I took a short break when my son was born. And after that, due to the startup environment and my husband moving from job to job, we ended up in Boulder, Colorado.
Mary Tapolsky: And at that point, I decided to work part-time. So, very difficult to do research part-time. And so, I transitioned to work at the Tech Transfer Office at the University of Colorado in Boulder. And that involves reviewing all the innovations created by the researchers there, deciding if they should be patented, and then deciding if they’re commercializable, and trying to find an entity, whether it be a startup or an established company, to develop them.
Mary Tapolsky: Fast-forward 10 years, my husband was recruited to Louisville. And I came as a trailing spouse and fell into the position at Nucleus, where I’ve worked with developing programs and support services to work with startups and early-stage companies.
Philip Devine: Now, you and I connected at LaunchIt, which is put on by Nucleus, correct?
Mary Tapolsky: Correct.
Philip Devine: Can you tell us a little bit more about what Nucleus does, or what the purpose is behind it?
Mary Tapolsky: So, my role at Nucleus was to develop programs and support services to help early-stage companies and startups. And one of the things we noticed when we first moved here is that there was not an entity that was offering companies, or people with ideas in early-stage companies, a way to validate their businesses and their potential for success. And so, the LaunchIt filled that role in the community. And basically, through this 10-week program, people will look at the different parts of their business model and try to validate them early on, so that, hopefully, at the end, they’ll have a validated business model and a higher chance of success, if they realize that their idea does actually have commercial potential.
Philip Devine: Yeah. The LaunchIt course was a … Was it eight weeks?
Mary Tapolsky: 10 weeks.
Philip Devine: 10 weeks, power-packed, like 10 weeks. It was. I didn’t realize how much work it was until afterwards, after we finished it. And I said, “Oh, well, I mean-”
Mary Tapolsky: “I have some free time now.”
Philip Devine: But it was invaluable, and I recommend that for anyone who wants to consider entrepreneurship or validate their business idea. It’s great. So, both you and your husband are very accomplished, right?
Mary Tapolsky: Well, thank you.
Philip Devine: You guys both have PhDs in chemistry.
Mary Tapolsky: Correct.
Philip Devine: You have both raised kids who are now out of the house and on their way, on a great career path. How have you guys managed to balance success at home with success professionally? And share a story, if you can, where maybe you realized, or your husband realized, “Oh, we’re getting out of whack.”
Mary Tapolsky: So, yeah. There was actually a very definite time when that happened. When we were in Houston, we bought a house outside Houston, in The Woodlands. And my husband, his job was there. And my job was down in the south side of Houston. So, I had the commute. And I commuted, you know, an hour each way to work, there and back, if traffic was good. And that left my husband to be the primary caregiver, if you will, for our children. You know, so he didn’t care for them during the day, but he dropped them off for preschool, and he picked them up, and he got the baths done and dinner started.
Mary Tapolsky: Well, that was a little difficult for my husband with two little kids. And so, about the time when I was pregnant, and we were expecting our third child, I just realized that, you know, we were both very stressed about our jobs, and at that point, pretty early on in our careers. And we both wanted to do a great job, yet we were both dedicated to family as well. But I just realized that at this point, it wasn’t working for us as a family. By the time our kids went to bed, everybody was stressed out, and crying a lot of tears by the kids. And so, that’s when I actually quit my job and decided, okay, I’m going to take a short break with the birth of our third kid. And then, I’m going to try to find a job closer to home. And that way, it’d take a little bit of the stress off my husband, and it should be better for our family life.
Mary Tapolsky: Well, it turns out that just about the time that I was ready to look for that new job in Houston, my husband’s company was acquired, so we were moving. So that kind of launched a two-year break, where I didn’t work professionally. And during that time, we relocated to Colorado. And when I went back to work, I made the decision to work part-time. So, I decided to work at 80%. And unfortunately, it’s still not very easy to do research when you’re working at 80%. And so, therefore, that’s when I looked at joining the Tech Transfer Office, University of Colorado Boulder, because they were hesitant to allow me to work 80%, but they were willing to give it a shot.
Mary Tapolsky: And so, that’s what I did. For eight years, I worked there, and I worked at 80% of the time, and I did a great job. And I think, I’m very happy to say that after their experience with me working 80%, they were willing to consider letting other people work 80%; which, you know, beforehand, they really hadn’t been willing to consider.
Philip Devine: Let me go back to your time in Houston. You know, what I heard when you were sharing that was that both of you guys had your, you guys were both on high-powered career tracks. And someone had to step off, at least temporarily. A, I think it’s admirable that you were able to do that. There’s obviously some sacrifice in that. How were you guys able to navigate who does that, and what the best solution was? Because what I’m thinking of is, you know, for my parents’ age, that would be the traditional thing, right? Okay, well, you know, the wife obviously needs to step down and stay home so that the husband can work. But nowadays, I don’t think that can be taken for granted. And so, I’m thinking about the couple that’s in a similar situation right now, that’s navigating that. What would you say to them? And how did you guys navigate that, personally?
Mary Tapolsky: So, I don’t actually remember ever having that discussion with my husband. But I guess, just thinking back, it just made sense to me. I was more interested in spending … I mean, I don’t want to say more interested than my husband in spending time with our kids … But I guess I just felt happy with the decision that I would have the opportunity to spend more time with my children.
Mary Tapolsky: You know, the two-year break, where I didn’t work outside the home, was a little odd for me, because I was always waiting to go back. So, I never really got comfortable in being a stay-at-home mom. I’ve always kind of wondered whether I would have been good at it. Honestly, I think not. I think I would have gotten frustrated with that, so I needed to work. But I was very happy to have the opportunity to spend more time with my children when they were young than I had before I started working 80%.
Mary Tapolsky: So, it just worked for us, for us as a couple. And it was really pretty amazing when I dropped down to working 80%. I mean, family life was just a lot better. In that day that I had off, I was able to get done a lot of chores, and grocery shopping, so that our weekends were actually fun, and relaxed, and time for family. And so for us, it all worked out.
Philip Devine: Stay with us. You’re listening to Home For Dinner.
Philip Devine: Hey, everyone. A quick thanks to our sponsor, Jason Underwood, and the team at Shelbyville Pharmacy. I remember the first time I asked a buddy to try kombucha. It was a green algae flavor with lots of healthy things floating around in it. The flavor was sweet, with light carbonation, and did a good job quenching your thirst; at least, that’s what I thought. My buddy said it tasted like hay, like the stuff cows eat in the winter.
Philip Devine: Well, we can’t all have refined palate, which is why I was ecstatic when, about a year ago, Jason Underwood, the pharmacist and owner of Shelbyville Pharmacy, told me he was going to be bringing in some local kombucha to sell at the pharmacy. Not only that, but he found hard-to-find and unusual sodas, mainly root beers, to sell as well. We’re talking real cane sugar, no high-fructose corn syrup, made-in-Kentucky sodas; sodas like WBC Root Beer, Fitz’s Root Beer, Caruso’s Legacy Root Beer, Cheerwine cola, Frostie Root Beer, Virgil’s Root Beer, Boylan Soda, and Ale-8 Soda; and Jason’s personal favorite, Saranac Root Beer. And in the words of Jason himself, he says that it’s pure enjoyment.
Philip Devine: Now, there’s still a question we need to answer, though, especially if you’re not a fan of kombucha; and that’s, “Why kombucha?” Well initially, Jason got into kombucha from a health standpoint, things like probiotics and stuff, but quickly found out that this is something you can enjoy as well. So whatever your flavor, whatever your brew, it’s been hand picked, tasted, and approved; not just by me, because I like trying new things, but by Jason Underwood, because he stands behind everything in the pharmacy.
Philip Devine: So, special thanks, again, to Jason Underwood and the team at Shelbyville Pharmacy for sponsoring this season. Make sure you take a minute to stop by and say hello. For more information on Jason Underwood and the team at Shelbyville Pharmacy, check out their website at www.shelbyvillepharmacy.com.
Philip Devine: You guys have always been involved in the startup world in your careers. And I’m curious, you know, we always hear about working 100 hours a week to get it done, at the expense of everything else. There had to have been some tension for your husband, maybe, as the company got acquired in Houston, or as he was working in Boulder, Colorado; some tension between, “Got to work hard, got to hustle and get this off the ground,” and same for you, with some, [inaudible 00:13:51] advisory board, or with any one of these LaunchIt groups, me included. How do you balance giving 110% to the project or the company, with your family? Or maybe I should say it the other way. How do you give 110% to your family with these projects here? I don’t know the best way to ask that.
Mary Tapolsky: Be very well organized and focused. I mean, honestly, from my perspective … I think for my husband’s, I would give you a different answer … But for myself, it is just being hyper-focused and hyper-effective. And I have tried to become a very efficient person, so that I can do in six hours what might take a lot of people eight hours, if you’re very focused, and just work, work, you know, be task-oriented and get your task done.
Mary Tapolsky: I’m actually a big proponent of lists. I do a lot of lists. I mark things off. It makes me very happy to mark things off a list. You know, I guess I would just, for one story, when I worked at the University of Colorado, one thing that my boss used to say about me that always gave me some pleasure was, he would brag that he paid me for 80%, but he got 100% of work out of me.
Philip Devine: That’s efficiency.
Mary Tapolsky: And so from my perspective, because I had a reduced schedule, I was hyper-focused on getting my work done. And so again, I’d just say, be hyper-focused. And you know, same thing here in Louisville. I would, a lot of times, I mean, I rarely didn’t make it home for dinner with my kids when they were at home. Now, it’s a little different. They’re all out of the house. And so, I’m a lot more flexible with respect to evenings out and evening events. When they were home, I did fewer of them. And again, I just tried to stay hyper-focused, and just very detail-oriented, and get my work done.
Philip Devine: What are some things that you’ve seen with the LaunchIt classes, right? Some concepts fizzle out, some continue as lifestyle businesses; some go on, and get funding, and rock and roll. What have you seen in the trends with the class that you’ve seen come through, as far as the level of commitment, or how hard they work; and maybe you haven’t necessarily looked at it like this, if they have significant others at home, and/or children at home?
Mary Tapolsky: You know, that’s an interesting question. At first, I’d like to make one comment, as I think people that come through and realize that their business is probably not a sustainable opportunity, we count that as a win, because they’re not spending a lot of time, and effort, and energy, or money, working towards something that doesn’t have a high chance of being successful. So, I’d just like to point that out. I would count that as a win.
Mary Tapolsky: You know, I do think that this is something that, after the first few sessions, we try to make a point of talking about in LaunchIt; that the life of an entrepreneur is not always easy, especially if you have somebody that starts off doing that as a second job. So, you have your day job all day, and then you start doing this at night. That’s really an incredibly hard place to be. So, I think it becomes almost easier if you make the choice or the decision to jump. And you quit your day job, and you focus all your time and energy on your startup. But that does require, I think, a family decision, because a lot of times, that means you lose a solid paycheck, a routine paycheck. You may lose benefits. You may lose your 401K. So, I think that that certainly needs to be a family decision.
Mary Tapolsky: You know, like I said, my husband and I have both been involved in startups, but there was only really one period of time where both of us were working at jobs where the paychecks, where you were only assured of having your job for, you know, 3 months, 6 months, 18 months. And so when I switched over to doing tech transferring now, here at Nucleus, the Nucleus was a startup. There always seemed to be a little bit more sustainability, and you were more assured of a paycheck. But I think that that’s definitely a conversation people need to have. You know, for us, I realized very early on. My husband actually worked for a large chemical company in France for the first 11 months of his work career; hated it, just because he didn’t find it exciting. It was boring. And he’s like, “I cannot even envision a lifetime of working in a company like this.”
Mary Tapolsky: So, you know, it was very early on. It’s like, “Okay. This is what he’s going to do.” And I think it’s just really kind of a mindset. You just need to get comfortable with the unknown. And we ended up getting fairly comfortable with the unknown.
Philip Devine: I love … There’s a, as I was getting set up here, you and I were talking. And you shared a story when you guys were in Boulder about, what ended up being a 10-year period started out with, what, 18 months?
Mary Tapolsky: 18 months, yeah.
Philip Devine: Can you share kind of how that happened?
Mary Tapolsky: So if you’re familiar with startup funding, a lot of times, startup companies will have funding for up to 18 months. So, and we bought a fixer-upper. And we thought, “Okay. You know, we’re going to wait a few years, make sure the company’s, that we know it’s going to have funding before we invest a lot of money and renovate our house.” Well, with funding only available for 18 months, and then it would go down to 12 months, sometimes at 9 months; and, oh, back up to 24 months; oh, down to 18, we never got to the point of feeling comfortable for quite a while.
Mary Tapolsky: And then after about seven years, it’s like, “Okay. I’m done. This is enough. This is our second startup in Boulder. We’re going to renovate.” And so, we spent a lot of time, and effort, and money, renovating our house, and then we moved.
Philip Devine: And then you moved.
Mary Tapolsky: And then we moved.
Philip Devine: So, yeah. So, 18 months turned into 10 years in Boulder. But the recurring theme during that time was uncertainty, which is interesting. And so what you just shared a second ago, and what you shared with me as I was setting up was, become comfortable with uncertainty; become comfortable with being uncomfortable.
Mary Tapolsky: Correct. And you know, I’d say we’ve been pretty lucky. My husband is now on his sixth early-stage or startup company. And he’s been pretty lucky in between those. So when one opportunity closed, the next opportunity came around pretty quickly. So I do think, from that perspective, we’ve been very lucky.
Philip Devine: When you guys were in Houston, in the story you shared about both you guys working, you were commuting an hour and a half when traffic was good, and you realized, I guess both you guys realized this isn’t going to work, because all the work is on one person. What are some indicators along the way, and maybe through other points in your relationship, that you’ve noticed you’re off track? And once you’ve noticed those, what are some things you’ve done to get back on track?
Mary Tapolsky: I think that was probably, as a family, that was the only time where it’s been a major issue for us. And I mean, not that our marriage is perfect, and we don’t have the perfect family, but you know, I have to admit, I don’t think, honestly, we’ve ever really had a situation that’s thrown us off track; even when my husband, when the second company, the second startup in Boulder ran out of money, and he was looking for the next opportunity, and that next opportunity was in Louisville, Kentucky.
Mary Tapolsky: Funny story there, he called me up, and he goes, “What do you think about Louisville?” And I’m like, “Louisville? That’s great,” because right outside Boulder, the next city over is Louisville, Colorado. And I’m like, “Great. It’s just down the street. I can keep my job.” “No, Louisville, Kentucky.” And I’m like, “Okay. We’ve got a lot to learn here.”
Mary Tapolsky: So, we … You know, I mean, at that point, I think you always need to look for the good and the positives. Yes, it was hard to pull our kids out of school at that point, but I’m a firm believer that kids are very malleable. They’re very flexible. And it was just, this is what we have to do. This is what we’re doing as a family. My husband actually commuted for a year, nine months, which was incredibly tough for him. So, the kids finished out fifth grade, eighth grade, and then sophomore year in high school, in Boulder. And it also gave us the opportunity to find schools, and figure out where they were going to go, to find a house, et cetera. But you know, that was pretty hard. He had to drive two hours to Indy, to take a flight to Denver, to take a bus to Boulder.
Mary Tapolsky: And then the kids are like, “Okay, Dad. Nice to see you, but we’ve got things to do.” So you know, it was just rather stressful. At one point, my son said, “Well, you know, this is working for me. Why doesn’t Papa just continue to commute?” But it was very hard on my husband. And so, you know, I mean, I think it was a no-brainer. We’ll relocate, and we’ll find new things to do. And we traded the ski slopes in for water skiing and the beautiful lakes here in the area, and we’re a lot closer to my family. So, I think you always look for the positives.
Philip Devine: What advice do you have for the listeners, the people who want to crush it at work and make it home for dinner? And make it home for dinner, of course, is an analogy just for being present with your family, right, because dinner’s relative. So, what advice do you have for them? Or what would you say to them?
Mary Tapolsky: I’d say, again, I think one of the most important things is just to be focused, and to have a clearcut idea, every morning, of what you want to get accomplished during the day. But be gentle with yourself if you don’t get everything accomplished. You know, just say, “Okay. I didn’t quite make it today, didn’t get everything done that I wanted to get done. But tomorrow’s another day.” And then, you just work extra hard tomorrow to make that happen. You know, a lot of times, before I get to work, as I’m in the shower in the morning, I’m going through what am I going to get done today, what do I need to accomplish; if I get everything I need to get done, what I’d like to get done; and again, back to my list making.
Mary Tapolsky: But I think it’s, be gentle with yourselves. Be kind. If you don’t get everything done, tomorrow’s another day. And just, you know, keep plugging along. But it also needs to be a priority. And I will say, you will not regret the time that you take to go home and spend the evenings with your kids. And if you need to work when they’re in bed, you work when they’re in bed.
Philip Devine: What resource, book, or conferences do you recommend for our listeners?
Mary Tapolsky: Well, three books that I might recommend, the first one is by Angela Duckworth, and it’s Grit, because I think I have a lot of grit, and I think that would be, maybe, one of the characteristics of myself that I think would be responsible for the success I have had. I don’t know that I’m incredibly talented, but I do think I have a lot of grit. And I think that that’s maybe an under-credited talent to have, is to have that determination.
Mary Tapolsky: Another one would be Business Adventures, by John Brooks. And this talks about the strength and weaknesses of leaders as they deal with challenging circumstances. So, I just thought it was quite interesting. And then another one, The Innovator’s Dilemma, which I think is always another book to read that would be interesting as well. In terms of conferences, I did go to South by Southwest for startup companies, which was a lot of fun. I would recommend going to get trained by Steve Blank. If you are working with entrepreneurs, learn how to do the Lean LaunchPad training. It’s great. And if you are an entrepreneur, come through LaunchIt.
Philip Devine: Yes. How do you define success for yourself, as far as work is concerned? And how do you define success for your family, or at least, success for you at home, for what you do? You know, how you define success.
Mary Tapolsky: Okay. So, I’ll take the second half of that question first. I think, to success at home with my kids, A, was to get them to a place where they are on their own, and they leave. They graduated from high school with enough possibilities that they can follow their dreams. And I felt that that was my role as a parent, is to help them get through high school with sufficiently good grades, to go to whatever college they wanted to go to; wasn’t really concerned about where they went, as long as it was where they wanted to go, and they would be able to pursue the career they were interested in.
Mary Tapolsky: So, I think all three of them achieved that. And I think the other thing that I appreciate now, in retrospect, is that my kids will say that they thought we did a pretty good job, which I guess is about all the credit we’re going to get at this point. The farther they get away from us, the more they appreciate us. And so, you know, I think for that, I’m happy. I think we did a pretty good job, my husband and I.
Mary Tapolsky: With respect to work, with respect to the work environment, I’d say what brings me a lot of pleasure now, for the position that I have in Louisville, is to see other companies that are reaching milestones, achieving milestones, and becoming successful. And while I can’t take credit for all their success, you know, if they’ve come through LaunchIt, or used one of our other resources, or if I was able to make a connection, an introduction to them that ended up being an inflection point for them, that makes me very happy; whether they remember it or not doesn’t really matter. It’s just gratifying to me that, in the entrepreneurial community here in Louisville, we are seeing successes. We are seeing people achieve milestones. We’re seeing successful exits. And I think we need to celebrate the small successes; any success, small, medium, large, we should celebrate them all. And I think maybe that’s one thing that I like to do, that I think perhaps makes me happier with myself.
Mary Tapolsky: And the part to being kind to yourself is to say, “Oh, I was able to help with that. That was a good day.” And so, yeah. I think that the more successful the community becomes, the better I feel about the role that I’ve played in helping to support that.
Philip Devine: Yeah. It’s almost, it’s kind of like practicing gratitude, or being thankful for things outside of yourself, and knowing that you had a piece to play in that.
Mary Tapolsky: Yeah.
Philip Devine: If someone wants to get in touch with you about entrepreneurship, about family and entrepreneurship, about LaunchIt, about anything they’ve heard on this episode, what’s the best way for them to reach you?
Mary Tapolsky: So, my current position is at University of Louisville, in the College of Business, the Forcht Center for Entrepreneurship. And all the programs that were developed and grown at Nucleus, including RevIt: Accelerating Customer Growth, Open Office Hours, Startup Seminar Series, and obviously, LaunchIt, are now going to be offered by the Forcht Center for Entrepreneurship; so that’s the easiest way to reach me; Mary.Tapolski at Louisville.edu.
Philip Devine: Hey, guys. Thanks for listening to Mary share her story. Please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you listen, so that you don’t miss a show. And leave us a rating and review, so that other people like you can discover the stories of entrepreneurs who make it home for dinner.
Philip Devine: We’d also love to hear your questions, struggles, and wins about entrepreneurship and family life. You can reach us on Instagram, at HomeForDinnerShow, or email us at HomeForDinner at Gmail.com.
Philip Devine: Home For Dinner is produced by Devine and Company. This episode was written with help from Rachel White and Anna Tran. [Justin Medley 00:30:26] edited the sound. The music you heard at the top of the show was the track, “Day of Dream” by Dreamwave, from HookSounds.com. The theme song was produced by [Mattis Muelller 00:30:36]. Special thanks to Doctor Jason Underwood and the team at Shelbyville Pharmacy for sponsoring this season.
Philip Devine: And I’m your host, Philip Devine. See you next time on Home For Dinner.

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