0:00

I'm Bari wise, and this is honestly.

0:03

Fantastic. Thank you so

0:05

much. It's a great day

0:07

in South Carolina.

0:14

Thank you all for being here.

0:16

You know, last month, former South Carolina

0:18

governor and Trump's ambassador to the

0:20

United Nations, Mickey Haley, announced

0:22

that she is running for president for

0:25

a strong America. For

0:27

a proud America. I

0:30

am running for president of the United

0:32

States of America.

0:39

Haley's someone who has consistently proven her

0:41

doubters wrong. She's never lost a race.

0:43

She was the first female governor of South Carolina

0:45

at the age of thirty eight. She self made.

0:48

And perhaps most impressively, she

0:50

survived a turbulent chaotic.

0:52

Those adjectives are understating the case.

0:55

Trump White House without so much

0:57

as a scrape. Now

0:59

for this, some see her as savvy,

1:01

a smart player of politics who played the game

1:03

better than most others in that White House.

1:05

But others see her as having dodged a profoundly

1:08

important question. Perhaps the most

1:10

important question Republicans have faced

1:12

in a very long time. Having both

1:14

allied herself with Trump enough to stay in

1:16

his good graces, but also distancing

1:19

from him sufficiently to appease his

1:21

critics. Her position

1:23

on Trump will be just one of many challenges

1:25

that Haley will have to face if she wants

1:27

to become a serious contender in the Republican

1:30

primaries. The other big

1:32

issue is that in a post Trump

1:34

political landscape, In a Republican

1:37

party that Trump has remained, can

1:39

Haley's old school worldview resonate

1:42

with the base? A base that's increasingly

1:44

isolationist and populist, and

1:46

perhaps has moved on from Haley's brand of conservatism.

1:50

On the flip side, Perhaps Haley could

1:52

be a breath of fresh air for the Republican Party.

1:54

One that, as the last round of midterms

1:57

proved, voters might actually crave

2:01

On today's show, a conversation

2:03

with Nikki Haley about why she's running

2:05

for president about who the hailey

2:08

constituency actually is, about

2:10

what she says to her fiercest critics, Don

2:12

Lemon, I'm looking at you, on her vision

2:14

for the future, and about why she

2:16

thinks she has what it takes to be the next president

2:18

of the United States. Stay

2:22

with

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today.

4:35

Nikki Haley welcome to honestly. Thanks

4:37

so much, Bari. It's great to be with you. I

4:39

have a lot of important questions I wanna

4:41

ask you, but I cannot help but start with

4:43

some straight up political

4:45

drama. This all talk about age makes

4:47

me uncomfortable. I think it's a wrong road

4:49

to go down. She says people, you

4:51

know, politicians are something that are not in their prime.

4:53

Nikki Haley is in her prime. Bari, when

4:55

a woman is considered to be in her prime in her twenties

4:57

and thirties and maybe forty What

4:59

do you say? Wait.

5:00

That's not according to me.

5:01

Prime for what? It depends. I

5:03

mean, it's just like Prime. If you look it up, it'll if

5:05

you Google, when there's a woman in her Prime, it'll

5:08

say, twenties, thirties, and forties.

5:10

Last week, Don Lemmon, one of

5:12

the many bruised heroes of the anti Trump

5:14

left on CNN these days, said

5:16

that you were past your prime. And

5:19

it was one of those perfect television

5:21

moments where someone digs and they keep digging

5:24

and they just dig themselves

5:25

further.

5:26

So I think she has to be careful about

5:28

saying that, well, you know, politicians aren't in their

5:30

prime need. Qualify. Are you talking about prime for,

5:32

like, child before? Or are you talking

5:34

about That's a drug drug drug drug drug drug drug drug drug drug drug

5:36

and drugs Google at everybody at home.

5:39

When is a woman in her prime? It says twenties, thirties,

5:41

and forties. And I'm just saying Nikki Haley should be

5:43

careful about saying that politicians are

5:45

not in their prime and would they need to be in

5:47

their prime when they serve because she wouldn't be in her prime

5:49

according to

5:51

Google. Google or whatever it is.

5:53

And I wonder, what do you wanna say to

5:55

Don Lemmon? I don't have anything

5:57

to say. I mean, look, it it says more about

5:59

him than it does about me. These complaints

6:02

or these criticisms or whatever that come

6:04

both ways. I'm used to it. I've gotten it

6:06

all my life, you know. I

6:08

always say when I was elected governor.

6:11

I had a white Republican who called me

6:13

a raghead, and I had an African American

6:16

Democrat who said she's not a minority. She's just

6:18

a conservative with a tan. So I

6:21

have incredibly thick skin,

6:23

and it's so okay. I mean, it just goes

6:25

to show that, you know, when you're a threat, attacks

6:27

come your way, and so it just motivates

6:30

me more. But look, It's his issue

6:32

not mine. I'm very comfortable with who I am

6:34

and what I am. He clearly is not.

6:36

So maybe this counseling that CNN

6:39

wants to do will help

6:40

him.

6:40

Did people buy the beer cozies? I saw that

6:42

you threw up some beer cozies on your website

6:44

and made a joke about the past

6:47

my prime statement of people been buying them? I mean,

6:49

Bari in the first day, we sold twenty

6:52

five thousand dollars worth of Coosies because

6:56

it was more than just about me.

6:58

Right? It was something we have

7:00

seen this. It's the hypocrisy of it

7:02

all. It's the fact that, you

7:05

know, had a a Republican said

7:07

this about a a female democrat,

7:09

people would have, like, asked for a heads

7:11

to roll and people to get fired. And so

7:13

I think people just like, it hit a nerve

7:16

with everybody. It wasn't just about me.

7:18

It was kind of about the craziness of

7:20

our country.

7:21

Okay. So we're here not primarily to talk

7:23

about Don Lemmon, although I want to get back to

7:25

the kind of attacks you get based on

7:27

your identity from the right and the left in a little

7:29

bit. Two weeks ago, you

7:32

announced that you're running for president of the United

7:34

States, making you the a candidate in your

7:36

party to announce after former president

7:38

Donald Trump. At this point, I'm

7:40

fairly convinced that the only people willing to run

7:42

for high office masochist or

7:44

sociopaths. So I'm wondering which one you

7:46

are. Just kidding. You don't strike me,

7:48

frankly, is either one of those. So I guess

7:50

my question is simple. Why are you doing

7:52

this to

7:52

yourself? Why are you running for president? Because

7:54

I'm not gonna wait for someone else to fix this

7:56

country. I'm gonna do it myself. I don't

7:58

want my children to grow up in

8:01

the direction this country is going in.

8:03

And as a mom, as a military

8:06

wife, as the daughter of immigrants who

8:08

came here because they believed in this country

8:10

so much. I feel like I owe it to my family

8:12

and I feel like I owe it to myself

8:14

to say, don't complain about it, do something

8:16

about it. And so, you know, I'm

8:18

very committed to this. I'm very committed

8:21

to the love I have this country, and

8:23

I think other Americans are too.

8:25

And I didn't see a reason to wait.

8:28

I'm not scared of anybody else that gets

8:30

in. I don't need any qualifications

8:33

from other people to say it's the time for

8:35

me to get

8:36

in. So I was ready to get to work, and that's what

8:38

I'm gonna do. When you say the country is broken,

8:40

that's something that most politicians say when they

8:42

decide they're running. What are the three things

8:44

that most concern

8:45

you, that motivate you to step into the race?

8:47

I think if you look at our national debt, thirty

8:50

one trillion dollars in debt, but more

8:52

than that, look at it from an American family.

8:54

I mean, it costs more money to go to the grocery

8:57

store. It costs more money at the gas station. That's

8:59

how they get to work. But one in six

9:01

Americans can't pay their utility bill.

9:04

Sixty percent of Americans are

9:06

in credit card debt, and half of Americans

9:08

say they're not as well off as they

9:10

were a year ago. I mean, our kids

9:12

are not gonna forgive us for the fact that

9:14

they've opened up earmarked. They're spending

9:16

like drunken sailors. And they're

9:19

gonna have to pay for it. So the debt,

9:21

I think, is huge in spending. That's happened on

9:23

the Republican and Democrats watch, and we need

9:25

to stop it. The second thing is

9:27

you look at our children's education, I

9:30

mean pre COVID, seventy

9:32

percent of eighth graders in our country were

9:34

not proficient in reading. Sixty

9:36

six percent of eighth graders were not proficient

9:38

math. You add two years of lockdowns

9:41

and our kids are so far behind

9:44

every parent's worried about whether they're gonna be

9:46

able to make this up. We have to make sure that

9:48

we're focused on that. And then you go

9:50

and you look at the fact that whether

9:52

it's open borders that are allowing

9:55

lawlessness and terrorists to come in.

9:57

Whether it's crime on our streets, I

9:59

mean, every parent should feel like if they're child

10:02

rides their bike down the street. They're gonna be

10:04

safe. And then finally, you look at

10:06

the foreign policy situation. I don't know

10:08

that America has ever looked as weak

10:10

the idea that an

10:12

American child or American

10:15

would look to the sky and see a Chinese five

10:17

balloon looking back at them, is

10:19

a national embarrassment. And

10:21

so, you know, those are those are

10:24

just a few things I think we need to write,

10:26

but I'll tell you the overarching theme

10:28

And this I don't care what

10:30

party you're in. Everybody will say this.

10:32

This self loading that has happened in our

10:34

country has got stop. The

10:36

idea that we're saying America's bad

10:38

or that America's racist or that

10:40

America's rotten. It's not. It's

10:43

not. My parents came here. And

10:46

at the time that they came in the late sixties,

10:49

America was growing in confidence, America

10:51

was growing in strength, America was growing in

10:53

opportunity, and they came

10:55

here because they saw what this country

10:58

could be. And there

11:00

was never a date my parents didn't remind

11:02

my brothers, my sister and me, how blessed we were

11:04

to live

11:05

here. And I want my kids to feel

11:07

that. I want people's grandkids to feel

11:09

that. I want them to love America,

11:11

and America deserves their love. When

11:14

I hear you speak, I I don't hear a politician

11:16

past her prime, but I do feel

11:18

like I'm hearing a politician, you

11:20

know, an old school And what do I mean

11:22

by that? I mean foreign policy

11:25

hawk, you know, a fiscal conservative, someone

11:28

that is sort of unabashedly patriotic

11:30

still believes in the American promise. And

11:33

when I hear a lot of Republicans these

11:35

days, they sound very different

11:37

from that. They sound isolationist,

11:40

questioning whether or not we should be supporting

11:42

Ukraine in its war against Russia. They

11:45

sound populist in

11:47

a way that I think often you don't.

11:49

They sound frankly nihilistic a lot

11:52

of them about America. Sometimes even

11:54

referring in parts of the new right to

11:56

the American government as a regime. And

12:00

I'm curious about your

12:02

understanding of where the base

12:04

or the energy of the Republican Party

12:06

is right now and whether or not you

12:08

and your message are speaking to that

12:10

face. Well, we've had packed

12:12

standing room only rooms in

12:14

Iowa and New Hampshire. We had thousands

12:16

of people at our announcement in South Carolina,

12:19

what people know about me, and what

12:21

those that don't know me will find out is,

12:24

I stand for what I believe and I

12:26

fight for it. I don't care about

12:28

labels. What I do care is about Americans,

12:30

populism isn't a bad thing. It's

12:32

not a bad thing when you wanna make sure that America's

12:35

wrong. It's not a bad thing when you wanna make sure

12:37

that America takes care of yourself before

12:39

it takes care of anybody else. You know,

12:41

what we wanna do is make sure that

12:44

we understand, that

12:46

we fight for what we believe in. But

12:48

more than that, we don't do it with faint parts.

12:50

We don't do it with watered down compromises. We

12:53

do it with a national purpose. We

12:55

do it with the idea that we are

12:57

going to make America better today than we

13:00

did yesterday, and we're gonna

13:02

bring others with us to

13:04

do that. This is a story about addition.

13:06

And so I don't worry about

13:08

the type of Republicans or,

13:11

you know, whether they're right or whether they're

13:13

moderate. What I do care about is

13:15

that we put a strong person

13:17

forward who can win a general

13:20

and even more than that lead

13:22

our country to a place where all Americans

13:24

can be

13:25

proud. And I know I can do that. Let's

13:27

talk about few of the issues in where you

13:29

stand versus where I think many in the Republican

13:32

Party stand. Let's let's start with Ukraine and foreign

13:34

policy. See. You believe,

13:37

as many believe that America

13:39

needs to play its role in the world stage,

13:42

as the policeman, you know, and enforcing

13:44

that with force if necessary. And

13:47

many in the GOP base seem to be asking

13:50

why? Right? A majority of

13:52

registered Republicans said they oppose funding

13:54

Ukraine any further. And they see,

13:56

and I think this is very understandable. A

13:59

president going to visit Zelensky rather

14:01

than going to East Palestine, Ohio. What

14:03

do you say to the Republicans or

14:06

the independents or either the Democrats that

14:08

you meet on the campaign trail and certainly

14:10

the ones you've met over your political career

14:12

that has sort of said why aren't we

14:15

putting America first? Right? What do you

14:17

say to Republican base that sort of pivoting

14:19

back, I would say, away from the

14:21

neoconservative consensus back to its more

14:23

isolationist roots?

14:25

Well, that's that's a lot. So let's unpack

14:27

it. First, I will tell you, I do

14:29

think that Biden needed to be an East Palace and

14:32

the reason is I have dealt with my share of crises

14:34

in our in South Carolina. And

14:37

when your people are hurting, you

14:39

drop everything and you are there with

14:41

them. So I do think he needed to do that.

14:43

When you look at the foreign policy situation,

14:46

I don't think that we need to be the policeman

14:48

of the world I don't. What I

14:50

do think though is you have the

14:52

backs of your allies and

14:54

you hold your enemies to account. And

14:56

so what that means is we don't need to be all

14:59

things to everybody in the world, but our

15:01

leadership matters when we

15:03

speak the world listens, when we act

15:05

the world follows. Who we are the world

15:07

wants to be, and that is a responsibility that

15:10

comes. So when you look at the situation

15:12

with Ukraine, you are actually

15:14

thinking about America's national security.

15:17

Right? This is about what do we need to do

15:19

to make sure we're protecting Americans. Protecting

15:22

Americans means, you protect freedom.

15:24

And when you look at the Ukraine situation,

15:27

the idea that these Ukrainians, it's

15:30

so inspirational, that they would

15:32

go and everybody gave them five days

15:35

before they fell. But they

15:37

cared so much about their country. They cared

15:39

so much about freedom. That those

15:41

men went to the front lines to fight for

15:43

their country. They left their women and children,

15:45

and the women said, I'm not gonna stand back and not

15:48

do anything. They made molotov cocktails

15:50

to help them. They have

15:52

gone and they have made such inroads.

15:55

I mean, look at the fact you know how desperate

15:57

Russia is when they're getting drones from Iran

15:59

and missiles from North Korea. The fact

16:01

that they've raised the draft age to sixty

16:03

five. The fact that they're taking people

16:05

off the streets and putting them on the frontline without

16:08

even being trained. Russia

16:10

is losing and they know it. What

16:12

America needs to do is understand that

16:15

Biden, if he would have been strong from the

16:17

beginning, we would have been much further

16:19

along than this. This is not

16:21

just a war about Ukraine. This is a war about

16:23

freedom. And it's one that we have

16:25

to win. And so I'm not saying

16:28

we give cash to Ukraine

16:30

or blank checks. I'm not saying we put troops

16:32

on the ground. What I am saying is you give

16:34

them what they need to win. They need ammunition.

16:37

They need equipment, you give

16:39

them that and you work with the NATO allies and say,

16:41

what are you giving? What are you giving? What are you

16:43

giving? And we do it collectively. Because

16:46

when Ukraine wins. This

16:48

will send message to China, to

16:50

Russia, to Iran, to North Korea,

16:52

and to every enemy that wants to mess

16:54

with us are one of our friends. If

16:56

Ukraine loses, Russia

16:59

has said Poland and the Baltics are next,

17:01

and we're looking at a full on world

17:03

war. So it is important

17:05

that we have the backs of our allies, and it is

17:08

important that the rest of the world sees

17:10

that when we're with you, we're with

17:12

you completely. That's what strength

17:14

is. And through all that,

17:16

it's the reason we need to have a strong military.

17:19

A strong military doesn't start a

17:21

strong military prevents force, and

17:24

a strong focus on the international

17:26

stage allows for the world

17:29

to be at

17:29

peace. And that's what we should always focus

17:31

on. We ran a peace in the free press

17:33

by Selena Zito, a report from East Palestine,

17:36

Ohio, and one comment

17:38

after another after another after another from

17:40

the readers of ours that identify, I would say, as conservatives

17:43

or Republicans, are why

17:45

the hell was Biden visiting Zelensky? Why

17:47

the hell are we supporting the war in Ukraine? Why

17:50

are I mean, it is overwhelming that

17:52

sentiment, I would say, among many

17:55

many conservatives who just who

17:57

don't buy the line that supporting

18:00

Ukraine is a way of fighting for American

18:02

freedom. That is an abstraction to

18:05

people. I think it's two things. Right?

18:07

I do remember that,

18:09

like, when you are a leader, when

18:12

you see your people hurting, when

18:14

you see your people suffering, you have

18:16

to be there. I am all or

18:18

biding going and being there with Zelensky. But

18:20

he should have been with the people of East Palestine

18:22

first. I mean, you look at the fact that

18:25

these are people that don't have much to start

18:27

with. And you have a trained derailment

18:29

like that. We had that in South Carolina.

18:32

I mean, the air smells

18:34

bad. Your kids are breathing

18:36

it, they're drinking it, families need

18:39

to know somebody's got their back. So I

18:41

think it's two separate things. Right? I think

18:43

that if if Biden had gone to

18:45

East Palestine, you wouldn't hear so much criticism

18:47

about him being in Ukraine. It's the fact

18:49

that he hasn't been his cabinet members

18:52

haven't been. He hasn't done anything. But

18:54

when it comes to Ukraine, that's

18:56

our job to let people know

18:58

why they should care about this. And

19:00

I don't think Biden's done a good job communicating

19:03

that. But I'm gonna continue to remind

19:05

people that this is a national

19:07

security issue for America. Because

19:10

if you let Russia get away with this, Guess

19:12

what? Taiwan's next. And China

19:15

is watching everything. China's watching

19:17

sanctions. China's watching what we're doing militarily.

19:20

China's watching how the rest of the world is responding

19:23

to the US. So everything we

19:25

do matters, and I think it's

19:27

up to us to continue to tell people

19:30

Standing with Ukraine is standing

19:33

for America and standing for

19:35

every freedom loving country in this

19:37

world. Let's talk a little bit about the culture

19:39

wars and the way that they're playing inside

19:42

the Republican Party, but especially among

19:44

people who might be considering running for president.

19:46

When I look at the Republican Party,

19:49

I see that anti woke messaging

19:51

and campaigning has sort of dominated

19:53

the GOP over the last few years. And

19:55

while some people interpreted the results of

19:57

the midterms as a lesson to kind of cool it,

20:00

return to issues that matter most

20:02

to people like education, like

20:04

crime, like the economy. It's

20:07

not clear whether the party is headed that

20:09

way or not. We reject woke

20:12

ideology.

20:17

We fight the woke in the legislature. We

20:20

fight the woke in the schools. We

20:22

fight the woke in the corporations. We

20:24

will never ever surrender to

20:27

the woke mob Florida is

20:29

where who goes to

20:31

die. We've

20:35

accomplished more than anybody just

20:38

for example, Rhonda Sant has claimed that

20:40

Florida is where woke goes to

20:42

die when I saw it on bunch of t shirts.

20:44

Vivek Ramaswani, who entered the

20:46

race in the few days is a major anti

20:48

woke upsator. He wrote a book called Woke Inc.

20:51

And I'm curious where you fall and whether

20:53

or not you think the culture warrior

20:55

agenda is a winning issue for

20:57

voters in twenty twenty four or

20:59

if it's sort of a tertiary

21:01

issue. I don't look at it as what's

21:03

winning for voters not winning for voters.

21:05

I think what's important is you have to call out

21:07

hypocrisy whenever you see it. You know,

21:09

you you mentioned the Don Lemon thing before,

21:11

and it's the same thing that if it had been

21:14

a Democrat female, people would have lost

21:16

their minds. But I also think it goes back

21:18

to what families are feeling.

21:20

I mean, you do look at schools

21:23

and you see that, look, when they're

21:25

trying to push the critical race theory, what are

21:27

you what are you really doing? As a mom,

21:29

what how does this affect me? If you've

21:31

got a five year old girl going

21:33

into kindergarten. If she's white, you're

21:35

telling her she's bad. And if she's brown or black,

21:37

you're telling her she's never gonna be good enough, and she's

21:39

always gonna be a victim. That's abusive.

21:41

When you go and you have the idea

21:44

that and and I say this all the time, Florida

21:46

passed this. Don't say gay, Bill. But

21:48

basically, it said you don't talk about gender before

21:50

the age of third grade. I just

21:52

don't think that went far enough. You know, when

21:55

I was in school, you didn't have sex ed

21:57

until seventh grade, and even

21:59

then your parents had to sign a permission slip,

22:01

and my dad wouldn't sign it. So I was the uncool

22:03

kid in the classroom next door. That's

22:06

the job of parents. That's

22:08

where the woke situation is

22:10

upsetting families. Is Parenting

22:13

is meant to happen in the home. Education

22:16

is meant to happen in the schools. Occupancy,

22:20

it shouldn't happen anywhere. You should treat

22:22

everybody the same. That's why these

22:24

woke issues are stepping up. Now, where

22:26

do we put it in perspective of things?

22:28

We need to stay very focused and disciplined

22:31

on the policies that affect our country

22:33

and where we're gonna go. Those issues that I talked

22:35

to you about debt and education and security,

22:38

and and foreign policy. Those

22:40

things need to happen. But when we see hypocrisy,

22:42

we need to call it out and then we move on.

22:45

Right? And I think that's the case is

22:47

we have to know how to balance multiple

22:49

balls at the same time and not

22:51

skew one way or the other. The biggest

22:53

concern I have is Right now,

22:56

America looks so distracted. So

22:58

distracted. And when we look distracted,

23:01

the world is less safe. If China

23:03

and Russia see us fighting over what

23:05

gender is what gender and and what

23:07

we're teaching and all these things, they

23:10

love that. They love that. So

23:12

let's not take our eye off the

23:14

ball, call out hypocrisy when we

23:16

need to, but don't stop working on

23:18

the issues that are going to make America strong.

23:20

Nikki, one of the things that brought you to

23:22

National Providence, one of the first times

23:24

I remember hearing your name, was in

23:27

twenty fifteen around the church

23:29

shooting in Charleston. To

23:31

remind people that's when Dylan Roof

23:33

walked into the Emmanuel African

23:35

Methodist Apiscival Church and murdered

23:37

nine Black permissioners there. And his aim, as

23:40

he said, was to start a race war. Now

23:42

you're governor of South Carolina at the

23:44

time. And in response to

23:46

roof, you called

23:48

for the removal of the confederate flag

23:50

from the South Carolina capital.

23:52

Today, we are here in a moment

23:54

of unity in our state without

23:56

ill will, to say it's

23:58

time to move the flag from the Capitol

24:01

grounds. Take

24:08

me back to that decision. Mhmm.

24:10

It was such a painful time. I mean,

24:12

a painful time for

24:14

South Carolanians a painful time. For

24:16

the country a painful time for me,

24:18

you know, you had what

24:20

so many South Carolanians do on a Wednesday

24:23

night. I mean, you had these twelve

24:25

people that went to bible study. The

24:28

only difference was on this night someone else

24:30

showed up. He didn't look like them.

24:32

He didn't sound like them. He didn't act like

24:34

them. And they didn't call

24:37

the cops. Instead, they pulled

24:39

up a chair. And they prayed with

24:41

him for an hour. And when

24:43

they bowed their heads in that last

24:45

prayer, he began to shoot.

24:48

These were people like Ethelance. She

24:51

had lost her daughter to breast cancer and

24:53

had a broken heart, but she would go

24:55

around mother and manual church cleaning

24:57

the church singing one day at a time,

24:59

sweet Jesus. That's all I ask

25:01

of you. Give me the strength

25:03

every day to do what I have to do.

25:06

Our youngest victim, Tawanda Sanders.

25:08

He had just graduated college. He

25:10

had the world in front of him.

25:13

And on that night, he stood in front of

25:15

his eighty seven year old, great aunt Susie,

25:17

and said to the killer,

25:20

we may no harm to you. You don't

25:22

have to do this. Or it

25:24

was people like Cynthia Heard whose

25:26

life motto was simply to be

25:28

kinder than necessary. That's

25:31

who these people were. They weren't famous.

25:33

People didn't know them, but they loved

25:36

their family. They loved their community

25:38

and they loved their church. And

25:40

when he did this, it

25:43

defied anything people

25:45

could imagine. And it

25:47

was the first time we had had shooting in place

25:49

of worship, and it was on

25:51

the heels of Ferguson. And

25:54

all I knew was I had to put my arms

25:56

around our state and protect her. And

25:59

I had to first make sure those families

26:01

were taken care of and I had to make sure the

26:03

rest of South Carolina's were taken care of because

26:05

I didn't want children afraid to go to church.

26:08

And so I immediately

26:10

told my office, I said I want you to call

26:13

in four groups. I said want

26:15

you to call in the Republican leadership,

26:17

I want you to call in the Democrat leadership, all

26:19

in separate meetings, I want you to call in the congressional

26:22

leadership and I want you to call in our

26:24

community leaders. And I said, and

26:26

don't tell them why I'm asking

26:28

them to come because I knew

26:30

if I had told them they would not show up.

26:34

When they came in, I

26:36

said, look, at three o'clock today,

26:38

I'm gonna call for and let me go

26:40

back. I mean, when this happened,

26:44

two days later, you

26:47

had the killer His manifesto

26:49

came out, and there he is holding the Confederate

26:51

flag, spewing every amount of hate.

26:54

Would you have to know about the Confederate flag in

26:56

South Carolina? Is that

26:59

half of South Carolanians saw

27:01

it as service and heritage.

27:04

The other half of South Carolanians saw

27:07

it as slavery and hate. My

27:11

job as their governor was not

27:13

to judge either side. My job

27:15

was to show them there was a better

27:17

place forward. My job was to take

27:19

South Carolina to a better place than

27:21

she had been. If I had judged

27:24

either side, we wouldn't have gotten anything

27:26

done. So I called those

27:28

four groups in and I said, look, at

27:30

three o'clock today, I'm gonna have a press conference.

27:33

And I'm gonna ask for the Confederate flag to

27:35

come down. And if you will stand

27:37

with me, I will forever be grateful.

27:40

And if you won't stand with me, I won't

27:42

tell anyone you were ever in this room. And

27:45

at three o'clock, I stood there. And

27:48

we had Republicans, Democrats, we

27:51

had whites, blacks, everybody

27:53

was there, but the real work had

27:55

to begin. Because the only way to

27:58

pull down the Confederate flag, you needed

28:00

two thirds vote of the House and the

28:02

Senate. This had been

28:04

debated decades before.

28:06

The confederate flag had been put on top of

28:08

the state house by a Democrat governor.

28:11

In the sixties. They tried to bring

28:13

it down in two thousand. Governor

28:15

David Beasley was defeated over it.

28:18

They ended up taking it off the top of

28:20

the statehouse dome and putting it right in front

28:22

of the statehouse. So

28:24

I had to get to work. The senate was

28:27

very quick to pass it because one of

28:29

the people killed it mother Emmanuel was the

28:31

pastor, pastor Pinkney, but he

28:33

was also a senator. And their brother

28:35

had died and they very much were feeling

28:37

the pain of that. The house was a

28:39

very different story. And I

28:42

remember the speaker of the house coming to me

28:44

saying, they're not gonna do it.

28:46

They're not gonna take this flag down. And I

28:48

said, they have to take this flag

28:50

down. I can't have a child driving

28:53

by the state house and saying that. It is time

28:55

for us to move on. It needs to be in

28:57

a museum, where it can be respected by

28:59

those who wish. So he comes

29:01

back to me and he goes, okay. I

29:03

got it. But the house and this

29:05

was mainly the Republican caucus. The house

29:07

said, they'll do it, but they wanna replace

29:10

it with a different flag. I said, no

29:12

flag. Flag is coming down. We're

29:14

not doing this. He said,

29:16

okay, I'll go back. He went back and he said,

29:19

we've got this flag

29:21

is coming down, no replacement

29:24

flag, but they do wanna leave the

29:26

poll up. And I had been

29:28

in the slate your prior six years.

29:30

I knew how they think. I knew what they did.

29:33

And I knew that if

29:35

we left that poll up when all

29:37

of the press went away, another flag

29:39

was gonna go up there. And I said, no.

29:41

The poll has to come down. He said governor

29:43

to win for you. He said, it's a win. You'll

29:45

get a win. I said, no. I don't

29:47

want any other governor to

29:50

ever have to go through this again. And

29:52

I don't want the people of our state to

29:54

ever have to go through this again. I said, the

29:56

flag comes down, the poll comes down. He goes,

29:58

I can't get that for you. And

30:00

I said, then let me talk to them. So

30:03

I went into the house caucus

30:06

where I had been blackballed earlier, which

30:08

is another story why I ran to our governor.

30:11

And I said to them, I said, you know

30:13

what? I wanna tell you a story. I

30:15

said, when I was growing up, I used

30:17

to love to go to Colombia with my

30:19

dad. Whenever I could because

30:21

I was from a small rural town. And

30:24

he would always stop by these produce

30:26

stands because he liked buying produce directly

30:29

from the farmers. And one

30:31

day we stopped to the stand and my father wears

30:33

a turban, still does to this day.

30:35

We stopped by this produce stand and

30:38

he started getting the produce. And

30:40

I saw the husband and wife owners at

30:42

the cash register. I was

30:45

little, but I saw them and they looked

30:47

concerned. And then I saw

30:50

them pick up the phone. And the next

30:52

thing I knew two police cars drove up.

30:55

My dad continued to get his produce, and

30:58

he went to the register, and

31:00

he thanked them. And he

31:02

paid, we got in the and

31:05

he didn't speak to me the entire way home.

31:08

He hoped I didn't notice what just happened.

31:11

I knew exactly what had happened. And

31:14

I told that caucus. I said

31:16

every day when I have to drive to

31:18

the airport to get on the state plane.

31:22

I passed that produce stand and

31:24

I feel pain. I

31:26

said, I don't want a single child

31:28

to ever drive by the state house.

31:31

And see that flag and feel

31:33

pain. Bring this flag

31:35

and this pole down. And

31:38

that night, they voted.

31:41

We got the flag down. We got the

31:43

pull down. And I will tell

31:45

you It was South Carolina's

31:48

finest hour because we didn't have

31:50

protests, we didn't have riots, we

31:52

had vigils, and we had hugs. And

31:55

South Carolina showed the world what true

31:57

strength and grace look like. Mickey,

32:00

you started off that powerful answer by

32:02

saying, you couldn't

32:04

judge. You didn't have

32:04

judgment for either side, but you

32:07

made a judgment. And I think a very

32:09

clear moral judgment I

32:11

didn't make a judgment. What I did was,

32:14

what's in the best interest of all South Carolanians?

32:16

And what was in the best interest of all South

32:18

Carolanians was to move forward?

32:20

Was to move forward in a way that made

32:23

us better. That's what I did.

32:25

I think too many elected officials

32:27

judge their own constituencies. That's

32:30

not that's elitist. That's not for us

32:32

to do. Understand why

32:34

your people feel what they feel. Understand

32:37

what their worries and their fears and their concerns

32:39

are. And then it's harder, but

32:41

communicate to them where you think

32:44

we need to go. That's what we need

32:46

to have more of not talking down to people

32:48

or telling them what is morally

32:50

right. It's telling them what will be in the

32:52

best interest of all of us. A

32:54

few years after the flag came

32:57

down, you wrote an op ed saying

32:59

in today's political climate, we would not

33:01

have been able to remove the flag. And

33:03

you blamed quote, the media hysteria

33:06

and outrage culture, which

33:08

you said makes it difficult to have thoughtful dialogue.

33:10

What changed between twenty fifteen

33:13

when that flag came down and you're up

33:15

at few years

33:16

later. I think it's just we

33:18

have fallen into and it goes back to that

33:20

national self loading I'm talking about,

33:22

we have fallen into this idea

33:26

that our country is flawed and

33:28

bad and racist.

33:31

And instead of leaders really

33:34

talking about ways to move forward

33:37

that our country gets better, you're

33:39

seeing them talk about ways to divide.

33:42

That's not getting us anywhere. We

33:45

have to start realizing for

33:47

the good of our kids, for the

33:49

good of the next generation, we

33:51

don't need to talk about what makes us different.

33:53

You know, I always say that when I was growing up,

33:55

you know, we were the only Indian family. In

33:58

a very small rural southern town.

34:00

And I I told you my my father wore,

34:03

turbine, my mother wore, Bari, they

34:05

didn't know who we were, what we were, or why

34:07

we were there. And I remember when I would

34:09

get teased on the playground and I would come

34:11

home. My mom would say your

34:13

job is not to show them how you're different.

34:15

Your job is to show them how you're similar. And

34:18

it's amazing how that lesson on the playground

34:20

has played out throughout my life, whether it was in the

34:22

corporate world, whether it was his governor,

34:24

whether it was his ambassador, If you

34:26

first take the time to talk to

34:28

people about what you agree on,

34:31

people let their guard down. Then

34:33

you can go and take on the struggle or the challenge

34:35

that you're trying to deal with. That's

34:37

where we have to get back to as Americans.

34:40

Is understand there are things that

34:42

we all share. And when

34:44

we have differences, let's be able to talk

34:46

about those differences. That doesn't mean we go into

34:48

water down compromise. It doesn't mean

34:51

that we go and we cave on things.

34:53

It means that you go and you communicate

34:56

with people with the intent of bringing

34:58

them to your side, not with the intent

35:00

of further pushing them away. And

35:03

that has happened. Now people

35:05

just don't want to listen to anyone that

35:07

doesn't think like them. That's a terrible

35:09

mistake. If, you know, if I had done that

35:11

at the UN, how would I have gotten

35:13

the, you know, all of those sanctions against

35:15

North Korea without talking to China?

35:17

Without talking to Russia, you have to

35:19

talk with those that think differently in order

35:22

to get things done. It takes more work,

35:24

but it's worth the effort.

35:33

After the brake, Nicki Haley responds

35:35

to those who criticize her for having it both

35:37

ways with Trump. Stay

35:39

with us.

35:57

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for ten percent off your first month. Now

36:46

back to the show. Let's

36:50

talk a little bit about the race as it stands

36:53

today. I want to talk a little bit about your

36:55

primary competition, and I'm not

36:57

talking about VVAC. In April

36:59

twenty twenty one, you said you

37:01

would not run if president Trump ran.

37:04

Well, if he's running and you are

37:05

running, what changed? Everything

37:08

changed. I mean, when I said that Biden had just

37:10

been elected, Afghanistan had

37:12

not fallen. We weren't in this

37:15

ridiculous amount of stimulus payments

37:17

in COVID debt. We didn't have these

37:19

open borders like never before and

37:21

we had not lost the midterms. And

37:23

so everything changed. And

37:26

and it was another thing where I was like, I don't

37:28

wanna wait for somebody else to fix I'm gonna

37:30

go in there and I'm gonna get it done because I

37:32

I'm not gonna complain about

37:34

it. I'm gonna do something about it. A

37:36

lot of people have pointed out that the only reason

37:38

that Trump has given you his blessing, so to

37:40

speak, to run, is that it's better for him to have

37:42

as many establishment candidates in the race

37:44

as possible in order to take away from

37:47

the DeSantis vote who is largely

37:49

viewed at least today as the main

37:51

contender for Trump. Are you

37:53

worried about splitting the

37:56

anti Trump vote and seeing a repeat of

37:58

twenty sixteen play

37:59

out. I don't worry about those things.

38:01

I think that's a lot of pundits trying to talk about

38:03

a lot things and analyze what they think's gonna

38:05

happen. What I do focus

38:07

on is talking to every

38:09

single person I can and letting them

38:11

know that we deserve better. Every

38:14

American deserves better than what they're getting

38:16

today. And I'm gonna make sure they do that. You know,

38:18

you've got all these pundits that love to sit there and

38:20

talk about oh, he's not doing this because

38:22

of this. He's not doing this because of that. That's

38:24

just wasted energy. I don't even

38:26

focus on that. Look, Trump, is a friend.

38:29

He knows me. He knows if you kick me. I

38:31

kick back. He knows I

38:33

talked to him before I decided to run and

38:35

he knows exactly why I'm doing this.

38:37

You know, I'm not gonna sit there and analyze where

38:40

he is. I'm gonna sit there and analyze where

38:42

Americans are and where they wanna

38:43

go. The rest is wasted energy. Okay,

38:46

a lot of people are sick of Trump,

38:48

especially after January sixth. And they look

38:50

at Rhonda Santos in Florida who hasn't announced, but

38:52

he's probably gonna get in and say he's got

38:54

the Trump appeal, but

38:57

without the

38:57

craziness. Right? He he

38:59

doesn't strike many people as a guy who

39:02

would lie about winning and spend more

39:04

time talking about himself in his country. So

39:06

maybe he's the guy. Maybe he's Trump without

39:08

the bad stuff. What do you say to that

39:10

voter? I don't kick

39:12

sideways. I don't pay attention to anybody

39:15

else. There's gonna be few people in. Some

39:17

are my friends. That's not the focus. My

39:19

focus is on the fact that Joe Biden

39:21

has done a terrible job, that

39:23

we are in a terrible situation because

39:26

of the fact that he's a weak president. And

39:28

so when I talk to Americans, they don't want to

39:30

hear me talk about others in the primary.

39:32

They want to hear me talk about what I'm going to do

39:34

to make their life

39:35

better. And so that's what I focus on.

39:38

The Trump White House, according to just about

39:40

everyone, was to

39:42

Mulchoo Waste was an understatement. So

39:44

many people quit other people work

39:46

fired on Twitter. Most people

39:48

came out of that experience, worse

39:51

for wear. You not only lasted

39:53

nearly two years, which seemed like an eternity,

39:55

many of us watching on the outside, but you

39:58

came out pretty much unscathed. You

40:00

didn't really allow yourself to be embarrassed. You

40:02

didn't really have any scandals. You

40:04

weren't really

40:05

involved, at least from the outside, civilians

40:07

watching, in the backstabbing that

40:09

seemed to dominate the world of Trump.

40:12

How did you do it? I

40:14

mean, I always tell everybody the way I got

40:16

out of there without a tweet was the

40:18

fact that I told him the truth. You

40:21

know, when The president was doing something

40:23

good. I rallied. I fought. I

40:25

tried to really make sure that that

40:27

we made, you know, America look strong.

40:29

And America look proud. And when I thought he was

40:31

going in the wrong direction, I met

40:33

with him, called him and said, you can't do this.

40:36

But instead, you could do XYRZ.

40:38

So I always gave him options. So

40:40

that he could make the decision he needed.

40:42

And he always knew that I didn't just

40:45

tell him what he wanted to hear, and he respected

40:47

that, and he appreciated that. He knew what was

40:49

tough, he knew that I would never

40:51

lie to him, and he knew that I wasn't gonna

40:53

embarrass him. And I

40:55

really focused on my work. I stayed

40:58

out of DC as much as possible. I was

41:00

there once a week or once every two weeks from

41:02

meetings with him or the Security Council,

41:04

but the rest of the time I was in New York doing

41:06

my job up. And I'll tell you, because

41:09

I haven't ever held a job

41:11

in DC, I think it's the

41:13

reason I see things with clarity. I think

41:16

DC is the problem. It's that bubble. It's

41:18

the way people think. It's how they do things.

41:20

I'm a worker. At the end of the day, I

41:22

very much know what I have to get done. And

41:24

I did it. And I think he very much respected

41:27

that. And he knew that I was tough.

41:29

He knew that I would do things. And there would be times

41:31

where I saw in real time I could do a negotiation.

41:34

I'd call him. He always picked up the phone,

41:36

and I'd say, look, I see it where I can make this

41:38

move or I can make that move. Are you good with that?

41:40

He's, like, run with

41:41

it. So there was just trust between

41:43

us. Here's how I see what

41:45

sort of shaken down in among the Republican

41:48

Party in the past Five years post

41:50

Trump. Some went the way of Liz

41:52

Cheney. Others went the way of Trump.

41:54

And a very, very, very few tried

41:56

to sort of stay out of it. And that's you.

41:58

Right? And I wonder, a, if you think

42:01

that strategy has worked and b,

42:03

how long you think you can actually sustain

42:06

what I view as a kind of avoidance

42:09

when you're running against the person.

42:11

Right? It's one thing to do that when you're an ambassador

42:13

working for the Trump White House It's quite another

42:16

when you're running against him and

42:18

surely will face maybe not Carly Fiorina

42:20

level attacks, but Trump style

42:23

attacks. I mean, I know he hasn't branded

42:25

you as a little Marco or whatever, but surely

42:27

that day will come. So how long do you

42:29

think you can sort of sustain the having

42:31

your cake and eating it

42:32

too. It's so funny that

42:34

everybody thinks that

42:37

I'm avoiding anything. I'm actually

42:40

being very true to who

42:42

I am. So first of all, Do

42:44

I agree with Trump on a hundred percent of things?

42:47

No. Do I disagree with Trump on a hundred

42:49

percent of things? No. I don't agree with my

42:51

husband a hundred percent of the time. So

42:53

when the president when president Trump

42:56

does something or says something, I

42:58

think there were a lot of policies that he had

43:00

in his administration that were great

43:02

I'm always gonna price him for that. I'm always

43:05

gonna tell him, I think there are things that he

43:07

did that were detrimental. I

43:09

have always called him out on that. And so

43:11

people don't understand how

43:14

I do both, but the isn't that how we

43:16

deal with everybody? Don't agree with somebody

43:19

a hundred percent of the time. You don't hate somebody

43:21

hundred percent of the time. That's how I see

43:23

it with him. So, you know, is

43:25

there a day he's gonna call me a name? Maybe

43:27

do I care? No? And

43:29

am I gonna continue to say what I think?

43:32

Absolutely. And I'm gonna

43:34

be honest about

43:34

it. You gave an interview two years

43:36

ago with political, and you said

43:39

you were really angry with Trump over his

43:41

treatment of Mike Pence on January sixth. You

43:43

said When I tell you I'm angry, it's an understatement.

43:45

You also said, I don't think he's gonna be

43:47

in the picture. I don't think he can. He's fallen so

43:50

Speaking about it, another run. You still agree

43:52

with those sentiments or at least the first part of

43:54

it? Are you still angry with how we treated Mike Pence

43:56

on that day? I was so upset

43:58

and I still think that was a tear herbal

44:00

day. I mean, we can never have that happen

44:02

again. And, yes, I mean, that

44:04

was a real emotion and a real feeling

44:07

because, look, you had a lot of us

44:09

that really were proud of the legacy.

44:12

We were proud of of the things

44:14

we all work together to lift Americans up,

44:16

to make America strong, all of that And

44:18

to see all of that happen and

44:20

and to see what happened on January sixth,

44:23

of course, we were devastated. Of course,

44:25

we were mad. And, of course, we were disgusted

44:27

by what happened. So, no, I absolutely

44:30

stand for what I said then. I

44:32

said it then. I'm saying it now, but

44:34

that goes back to that Like,

44:36

you can sit there and agree with the fact

44:39

that I think he was the right president at the right

44:41

time. And I can also agree with the fact that I

44:43

think that was a terrible mistake

44:45

for our country on January

44:46

sixth, and I hope it never happens again.

44:49

Tim Alberta wrote in political in

44:51

twenty twenty one in a profile of you

44:53

that you can't decide who you want

44:55

to

44:55

be, the leader of a post Trump GOP

44:57

or a friend to the president. How do you

44:59

answer that criticism? It was more about

45:01

he couldn't decide who he wanted me to

45:03

be. I know exactly who I am.

45:06

I have always said exactly who I am.

45:08

If people don't like what I say,

45:10

I can't help that. But what I will

45:12

tell you is, I love this

45:14

country. I know that

45:16

my parents came here and I'm determined

45:19

to prove to them that they made the right decision.

45:21

I know my husband deployed in Afghanistan

45:23

and I saw this sacrifice that I and

45:26

and so many military families go

45:28

through, and I know that freedom and their sacrifice

45:30

matters. I am the mom of two children,

45:33

and I see my daughters getting married, and I

45:35

see how hard it is for them to afford a home.

45:37

And I have a son in college, and I see how

45:39

he's having to write papers of things

45:42

he doesn't believe just to get an a.

45:44

So what I am saying is,

45:46

I know who I am. I know

45:48

why I'm doing this. And I know where I'm gonna

45:50

take this country. I don't really

45:52

worry about what everybody else tries

45:54

to analyze me to

45:55

be. I care about what the Americans think

45:57

of me. Okay. Let's talk a little

45:59

bit about the state of the GOP. It

46:01

took Kevin McCarthy fifteen rounds

46:04

of voting and negotiating to get elected

46:06

as speaker of the house. That is the longest

46:08

speaker vote in over a hundred and fifty years.

46:10

Dan Crenshaw, the Republican congressman

46:13

from Texas said about it.

46:14

McCarthy will get there. Like, he's he's

46:16

going to get there. Will not vote for anyone else about

46:18

the Bari. These people think they're stubborn, more more

46:21

stubborn, because we're we're standing for principal.

46:23

They're standing for personal notoriety,

46:25

we are standing for principle. We will go longer. And

46:28

Kevin McCarthy will become speaker. So the real

46:30

question is what's consequences for those no names?

46:33

You tell me it's devastated. That

46:35

was it. Mhmm. They they

46:37

think they're not gonna get the committees they want.

46:39

Well, obviously, they won't, but it's gonna be

46:41

so much worse than

46:42

that. You know, they are enemies now.

46:45

It's devastating. They're enemies now.

46:48

To me, that whole moment kinda

46:50

summed up. It was kind of a microcosm of

46:53

where the GOP is

46:55

these days. Another moment, another flashpoint

46:57

was at the State of the Union with Marjorie Taylor

46:59

Green and her white for standing up and screaming

47:02

liar liar about Biden. And

47:04

the reason I asked this isn't to

47:07

single out any one of these sort of

47:09

newcomers to the party. It's really because

47:11

I think the Democrats are

47:14

so weakened a lot of political

47:16

independence, and honestly, a lot of dissolution

47:19

Democrats, I know, are desperate

47:21

for an alternative. But they look at

47:24

the circus that is the modern day

47:26

GOP and say, you know what, I'm gonna

47:28

stick with this party because the other one

47:30

just seems so crazy. What

47:33

do you say to that voter? That,

47:35

you know, there's so many people who are so

47:37

frustrated, especially post COVID, especially

47:40

with school closures, especially with crime and

47:42

cities, who are ready for an alternative.

47:44

What do you say to that person who then looks

47:46

at, you know, the antics of a Marjorie Taylor

47:49

Green and says, I just can't bear to pull the

47:51

lever for that party.

47:52

Well, I think if you look at at why we

47:54

lost the medterms, a lot of it was

47:56

that, you know, you had the fact, it's not

47:58

that they loved Joe Biden or the direction

48:00

the democrats were going. What they saw

48:02

as Republicans were hating

48:05

on each other and the democrats. And from

48:07

an independent standpoint, it

48:09

looked like chaos, and they didn't wanna be part

48:11

of that. So I think that, you know, Republicans

48:14

need to understand that. When it comes to the speakers

48:16

race, look, I

48:18

don't understand why they didn't get

48:20

in a room and figure that out. I mean,

48:22

when I was governor, I would bring

48:24

people in room and say, okay, we're

48:27

gonna work through this and we're not leaving until

48:29

we fix it. I wish they would have done

48:31

that because I don't think the American people needed

48:33

to see that. Having said that,

48:35

I don't disagree with those minority

48:37

few that didn't wanna vote for McCarthy.

48:40

Not saying that I think McCarthy's bad or

48:42

anything else, but what were they saying?

48:45

They were basically saying what

48:47

is gonna be different. Remember under

48:49

McCarthy's era, they opened

48:51

back up earmarks. I mean, the

48:53

American people paid for twelve million dollars

48:56

for baseball stadium in New York, fifteen million

48:58

dollars for New Jersey to get the World Cup, six

49:00

and a half million for golf

49:02

courses in Colorado. You

49:04

got two million for a hip hop museum in New

49:06

York. That is not the spending needs to

49:08

happen, and that happened under the Republican's

49:11

watch. Right? The debt and

49:13

the spending that has happened to get us thirty

49:15

one trillion dollars, that happened

49:17

with Republicans. So these people

49:19

were going in saying, How are you gonna be

49:21

different? And what what is really

49:23

important, Barry, is there wasn't

49:26

one elected official.

49:28

Whose constituents were saying, oh, you

49:30

gotta vote for Kevin McCarthy. Why aren't you

49:32

voting for Kevin? Nobody cares who the speaker

49:35

is. They care how you're gonna leave.

49:37

So if you look at a Ralph Norman who says,

49:40

that's fine. I'll be with you, Kevin, but

49:42

I wanna vote on term limits. I

49:44

completely agree with Kevin. If you

49:46

have somebody else that says, I

49:48

wanna be with you, Kevin, but we need to

49:50

start having these bills and look at them seventy

49:52

two hours in advance, not just

49:54

having to vote on something we have. I

49:56

absolutely agree with that. So

49:58

the idea that they could get some

50:00

good, transparent stuff out for

50:02

the American people,

50:04

but I supported. I think what they were trying

50:06

to do is, alright, did you have some peacocks in

50:08

there? Yeah. You had some peacocks in there. That's

50:10

but you did have some good elected officials

50:12

that were saying, look, I gotta fight for my people

50:14

and I think they genuinely were trying to

50:16

do that. I just wish they would have done it behind

50:19

closed doors. We're living through a

50:21

time of incredible political

50:22

realignment. You know, we've mentioned East Palestine

50:25

a few times and I look at what's happening

50:27

there and I think I can't believe Michael Moore

50:29

is not there with a doc. Memory crew. Right?

50:31

Like, that to me is is such an

50:33

obvious issue for

50:36

progressives to care about. It's about the environment.

50:38

It's about the working class and

50:40

yet somehow that's coded as a right wing

50:42

issue where you have sort of JD Vance

50:44

and Donald Trump taking up that emblem. What

50:47

does it mean these days in your view

50:49

to be a conservative? What does it

50:51

mean in an era in which

50:53

all of these labels are thrown

50:56

up in the air, and I think a lot of

50:58

people don't really know which apply to

51:00

them anymore. How do you define what it is

51:02

to be a conservative?

51:04

You know, I think a a conservative understands

51:07

that government was intended to secure the

51:09

rights and freedoms of the people, not intended

51:11

to be all things to all people. I think

51:13

a conservative understands that

51:15

capitalism and economic freedom has

51:17

been the greatest force for good in the history

51:19

of the world. I think conservatism understands

51:22

that a strong America is

51:24

a safe America that's strong abroad.

51:27

I think that's what conservatism understands

51:29

that family values matter. And making

51:31

sure our kids have better opportunity than what

51:34

we had is the focus of where we go.

51:36

That's what I think conservatism is.

51:38

And I think that and it's freedom

51:40

of above all things. It's every

51:42

amount of freedom for parents

51:44

to decide where their kids go to school. For

51:46

people to decide how best to spend their money

51:48

as opposed to government for, you know,

51:50

elected officials to understand if you educate

51:53

Americans, they can make the decision that's best

51:55

for them. That really what it is. And what

51:57

a leader does is a leader sets

51:59

the tone for who they represent.

52:02

When I was governor, I set the

52:04

tone. I mean, I took a state that was

52:06

in double digit unemployment. We

52:09

had been the butt of the jokes. Everybody may

52:11

fun of South Carolina is uneducated and

52:13

unworthy. And, you know,

52:15

I knew that I had to change. So

52:17

I focused on not only changing the

52:19

culture, the business climate,

52:22

making sure our South Carolanians learn

52:24

new traits so that they could take on these new

52:26

jobs, and we became the beast of the southeast.

52:29

It very much is about

52:31

empowering people to see

52:33

the best of themselves. That's

52:36

what we should want. Is how can

52:38

we show them that we need them?

52:40

And how do we get them to step up in

52:42

a way that really helps us

52:44

become a better

52:45

country? In your campaign kickoff,

52:47

you said the country is ready to move past,

52:49

quote, division and distractions. It's become

52:51

a cliche at this point to say we're more divided

52:54

than but we really feel like we're more divided

52:56

than ever. We're fractured on just about everything.

52:58

If you're the nominee, representing the

53:00

Republican Party for president, You'll have

53:02

to appeal not just to Republicans, not just

53:05

to the base, but also to Democratic

53:07

and independent voters if you wanna win win

53:09

the electoral college, let alone the popular vote. And

53:11

yet, as you pointed in that announcement. The

53:14

Republican Party has lost the popular vote

53:16

in seven out of eight of the last presidential

53:18

elections. What's your plan on

53:20

appealing to a broad swath of voters

53:22

in our incredibly polarized

53:24

age? I will do exactly what I did

53:27

as governor of South Carolina. We were

53:29

able to pull people in because

53:31

I let them know I was focused

53:33

on lifting up everybody, not just

53:35

to select you. You talk to people,

53:37

you know, my parents were democrats until

53:40

Reagan, not because they were really democrats,

53:42

but because republicans didn't talk to them.

53:44

And so what Republicans have

53:46

to understand is we

53:49

need to speak to everyone in

53:51

a way that everyone can see where

53:53

we want to take them. And you do

53:55

that not by going to minorities

53:58

and and suburban women and

54:00

and different communities in saying you should be

54:02

with us. Instead, you go and you ask them,

54:05

what do you care about? And guess what they

54:07

all care about their kids education? They

54:09

all wanna make sure that their kids have better opportunities

54:11

than what they had. They want us a Safe

54:13

America that's strong abroad. It's

54:15

about talking about your views

54:18

in a way that you are unwavering but

54:20

in a way that understands what

54:22

they care about, that's the focus.

54:25

That's where we have to go is to understand

54:27

this is a story of addition. This is

54:29

a story of bringing people in. Look, there's a

54:31

reason that I had the least negatives

54:33

of anybody, you know, in the field. There's

54:36

a reason that I'm more like to win a general

54:38

than anyone else. It's because I

54:40

identify with so many different

54:42

people. It's your experiences that

54:44

bring you the ability to

54:46

communicate with all people. And

54:48

so whether it's being, you

54:50

know, a child that grew up and

54:52

understands what it means to be bullied or

54:54

have discrimination whether it's the

54:56

daughter of immigrant parents who were forced

54:58

on education and the importance of that, whether

55:01

it's a mom who understands family values

55:03

and the parents need to be in charge whether it's

55:05

military spouse that sees the pressures that

55:07

our military is under. All of those

55:09

experiences, that's what

55:11

I go out and and bring us. I talk

55:13

about what I've

55:15

lived. Not what think others should

55:17

know. It's what I've lived and how I think

55:19

we can take us forward. Let's talk

55:21

a little bit about the response, especially

55:23

among the press. To your announcement. We

55:25

talked a little while ago about Don

55:27

Lemon and what he said, but he wasn't the

55:30

only one who sort of stepped in it. Wuppy

55:32

Goldberg said something similar on the view. She

55:34

said, you're not a new generation. You're fifty

55:36

one. And these sort of comments aren't

55:38

new. Right? Or someone who's been in the public eye

55:40

for a while now, but I think they're particularly stark

55:43

when they're coming from the left, which

55:45

is supposed to be hypersensitive to

55:47

even the most minor of microaggressions

55:50

and here they are basically saying, you're

55:52

a hag. I wrote a column in twenty

55:54

eighteen when I was at the times called the slut

55:56

shaming of Nikki Haley. And this was after Michael

55:58

Wolf published his book fire

56:01

in fury. It was all the rage at the time

56:03

about the first year of the Trump administration,

56:05

and he basically accused you of having

56:07

an affair with the president based

56:09

on rumors without a shred of fact. And

56:11

I pointed out just very simply that

56:14

there's something about a Republican woman

56:16

of color that makes people's head

56:18

spin and makes the left say things that

56:20

they would never condone to

56:23

be said about woman with progressive

56:25

politics. How do you begin to understand

56:28

this hypocrisy? And does it get under your skin

56:30

at all?

56:31

It doesn't get under my skin. It doesn't make

56:33

it less disgusting. You know? So

56:35

it's, you know, it's disgusting, but at the

56:37

same time, I truly do think it's says

56:39

more about them than me. You know, it's funny how

56:42

Liberals will go and say, oh, but the democrats

56:44

are the party of women, yet they're the most sexist.

56:46

When it comes to comments about me. You know,

56:49

they'll say, oh, the democrats are the party

56:51

of minorities, yet they're the first ones

56:53

to sit there and hit me on

56:55

a racist situation. So,

56:58

no, it's something I've been used to all

57:00

of my life and especially in my political

57:02

career. These aren't the first attacks I'll

57:04

get. There will be many more. But

57:07

it all it does is motivate me. It

57:09

really does. It's sad that it happens,

57:12

but, you know, they can't stand the fact that

57:14

a conservative minority female would not be democrat,

57:16

and they don't know what to do with it. And so

57:18

they say things to me that they would never

57:21

allow Republicans to say to democrats. And

57:23

you know, I think what it what we need

57:25

to look at in America is how are you gonna handle

57:27

that? You know, if they're doing this to me,

57:29

I'm gonna let it roll off my shoulders, but does

57:32

everybody else wanna handle that? Because

57:34

I think at some point, accountability

57:36

falls for everybody, not just Republicans.

57:39

Democrats have to be accountable for their actions

57:41

to and their words as

57:42

well. But one of the things I think is unique

57:44

about you is you're kind of bit twixed in between.

57:46

Like, you're getting it from the whoopi Goldbergs

57:48

and the Don Lemons, but you're also getting it

57:50

from the right. Right? Megyn

57:53

Kelly said last week that you have a tiny little,

57:55

nowsy voice. Anne Colter,

57:57

and this was the big news last

57:58

week, said she's just a preposterous creature.

58:02

But she her candidacy did remind

58:04

me that I need to immigrate to India

58:06

so I can demand they start taking down

58:09

parts of their history. Well,

58:12

you are a good prince. It's a worse. Something

58:14

that used to say about Barack Obama. Why don't you

58:16

go back to your own country? In

58:18

baby case, why don't you go back your own country

58:21

and reconsider that. How prevalent

58:23

do you feel that that sentiment is on the right?

58:25

I don't worry about it. You know, those that are gonna

58:27

be haters are gonna hate no matter what I say

58:30

what I do, I don't fit their molds.

58:32

You've got some media personalities now. They're

58:34

never gonna like me because they don't like

58:36

the way I look or sound or

58:38

anything else. It's okay. You know,

58:41

if that's how they feel, I'm never gonna

58:43

win them. I'm not gonna sit there in bed to

58:45

have that. I think overall

58:47

Americans are good people. I

58:49

think they make good decisions. I think they

58:51

are sound and they have good judgment. And

58:53

I think that they're quality individuals. There's

58:55

always gonna be haters. That say

58:58

things that are unfortunate. But

59:00

if I lived my life according to haters, I

59:02

wouldn't be where I am today. I've lived my life

59:04

according to good people. And it's the good

59:06

people I gravitate to. And I've always

59:09

said, you know, not just to me, but to my team

59:11

that if you give credibility and

59:13

and credence to the haters, you're disrespecting

59:16

the people that support you and love you so much.

59:18

And so I choose to focus on the people that

59:20

support and love and went over the people

59:22

that we haven't received, but the haters I just

59:24

don't it they don't phase me. If they knew how

59:26

little I cared, they wouldn't do it.

59:29

So when they go low, you go high, when

59:31

they go low, I ignore them. I don't

59:33

even pay attention. I usually I'll come

59:35

out with a koozy that says, you know, pass

59:37

my prime, hold my beer, and I'll make

59:39

twenty five thousand dollars off of koozy.

59:41

So, like, you know, if

59:43

you wanna criticize me, bring it. You're you

59:45

know, I'll find a way to make lemonade out of lemons

59:47

any day of the week. Literally. You've

59:50

spoken out against identity politics, and

59:52

yet in your campaign announcement, you emphasized

59:54

your identity, which every politician does

59:56

as a minority woman, as the daughter of Indian

59:59

immigrants, and that same announcement you were

1:00:01

talking about foreign policy. And You

1:00:03

emphasized your

1:00:04

femininity. China and Russia

1:00:06

are on the march. They all think

1:00:08

we can be bullied, kicked around.

1:00:11

You should know the about me. I

1:00:14

don't put up with boys. And

1:00:16

when you kick back, it hurts

1:00:18

them more if you're wearing

1:00:19

heels. I'm Nikki Haley and

1:00:21

I'm running for present. And

1:00:24

when you kick back, you said it hurts the more when

1:00:26

you're wearing heels. To me, it's a kind

1:00:28

of like very lean in, you go girl type

1:00:30

of play. That you kinda see reserved for

1:00:32

Democratic politicians. So I guess I'm left

1:00:35

wondering, how central is your

1:00:37

identity as a woman and particularly woman

1:00:39

of South Asian descent to your candidacy? And

1:00:42

do you draw a line between sort of

1:00:44

inclusive identity politics or

1:00:46

exclusionary identity politics? In other

1:00:48

words, there's a version of identity politics that

1:00:50

says, I'm gonna tell you who I am. I'm gonna tell

1:00:52

you about that fruit stand so you can understand

1:00:55

my story. But I'm not telling you that story

1:00:57

to say to

1:00:57

you. You can never understand because you're not

1:00:59

me. So I it it's

1:01:02

a few things. I think first of all, you know, the

1:01:04

reason I talk about being a brown

1:01:06

girl growing up in a black and white world

1:01:08

I talk about that from the standpoint of

1:01:11

when I would come home being bullied, my

1:01:13

mom would say your job is not to show them how

1:01:15

you're different. Your job is to show them how you're similar.

1:01:17

Because I think that's a lesson for all

1:01:20

Americans. Don't let people

1:01:22

divide you based on what you look

1:01:24

like. Let them go and

1:01:26

and show them how similar you are to

1:01:28

them. So it's a life lesson that I think all

1:01:30

Americans can learn from, but I think

1:01:32

it also helps them understand me more.

1:01:35

When I talk about being a woman, when I talk

1:01:37

about heels, I'm proud of being a woman.

1:01:39

I'm a feminine girl. I love

1:01:41

that. And so look, I don't

1:01:43

deny what people can see. They can see I'm a

1:01:45

brown woman. That's fine. And so

1:01:47

I have fun with it. If you're gonna criticize

1:01:49

me for those things anyway, I'm gonna lean into

1:01:52

it and have fun. And have always done that.

1:01:54

It's not identity politics. It's just

1:01:56

loving who you are. And I love being

1:01:58

a woman. I love my heritage.

1:02:01

I love how I was raised, and I love how

1:02:03

it has made me who I am today.

1:02:05

And so you know, identity politics

1:02:08

are when you divide people based

1:02:10

on what you are. I'm not dividing people

1:02:12

based on what I

1:02:13

am. I'm trying to show people that we are

1:02:15

all more similar than we are different.

1:02:18

One of the themes of your presidential bid

1:02:20

is though you're not past your prime, you

1:02:22

have said that many of our politicians very much

1:02:25

are. You actually said it's time for the

1:02:27

permanent politicians to higher and a new

1:02:29

generation to take the reins you suggested mandatory

1:02:32

mental competency tests for congressman

1:02:34

of a certain age. I definitely cannot argue

1:02:36

with that. You've been in politics though

1:02:38

for nearly two decades. So what exactly distinguishes

1:02:41

you from the old

1:02:41

guard? And do you actually think that there should be a cap

1:02:44

on how old you can be to have a job in Washington?

1:02:46

Look, I mean, if you look at the military, people

1:02:48

age out. If you look at different jobs,

1:02:51

people age out because you have to be

1:02:53

at the top of your prime. Right? So,

1:02:55

I mean, I look at I was elected

1:02:58

governor when I was thirty eight. I was the youngest

1:03:00

governor in the country, and I served

1:03:02

all the way through the UN for eight

1:03:04

years, I believe, in term limits. It was a reason

1:03:06

I walked away because after eight years, you have to

1:03:08

know when to walk away and let someone else be

1:03:11

able to do that. It allows you to

1:03:13

recharge. It allows you to get back. But the mental

1:03:15

competency test is amazing how much of

1:03:17

a nerve that hit. When you've

1:03:19

got elected officials, first of all, look at

1:03:21

DC. It's old. You know,

1:03:23

we need term limits. We need people to understand

1:03:26

that, look, you have to know how to rotate out.

1:03:28

You have to let other people do these jobs. But

1:03:30

the second thing is, you need to be at the top

1:03:32

of your game. These are people making

1:03:34

decisions on our national security. These

1:03:37

are people making decisions on what's going to

1:03:39

happen to our children. We should want I'm

1:03:41

not saying, it keeps

1:03:43

them from holding a job. I'm saying,

1:03:45

do the mental competency test so the people

1:03:47

that you serve know that you are up to

1:03:49

your fine. If you fail it,

1:03:51

I'm not saying you can't, sir. I'm saying your

1:03:53

people need to know you failed it. So,

1:03:56

you know, look, I think that's important. If

1:03:58

they gave everybody mental competency test,

1:04:00

I think it would be warranted because I think the issues

1:04:02

of the day are that important. And

1:04:05

look, I mean, you know, people talk about age, whether

1:04:07

it's we'll be saying I'm fifty one or

1:04:09

or Donald Trump and saying I'm past my prime. I'm

1:04:12

thirty years younger than Biden. What

1:04:14

I'm saying is, when you have

1:04:17

someone with this many issues

1:04:19

in the country, we need to make

1:04:21

sure somebody's got the physical, mental,

1:04:23

emotional stamina to be able to

1:04:25

get us through this. And I think being transparent

1:04:28

to the American people is a good thing. And I think

1:04:30

for all those people who were offended by it,

1:04:32

think that tells the American people all they need

1:04:34

to know.

1:04:43

After the break, I asked Nikki Haley what her

1:04:45

favorite low country staple is. That

1:04:48

and more questions in the lightning round. Stay

1:04:50

with us. Hi,

1:05:04

loyal listeners. Today's episode is brought to

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1:06:09

Okay, Nikki Haley. You ready for a lightning

1:06:11

round? Sure. Who's your hero?

1:06:13

My mom. What's the greater threat?

1:06:15

China or Russia? China, should

1:06:18

John Federman have dropped out of the race for

1:06:20

the senate?

1:06:20

Yes. Who is the most interesting Republican

1:06:23

in congress? That's

1:06:26

hard. We've got good Republicans. Okay.

1:06:29

How about in the senate? You know,

1:06:31

I love I love what Jony

1:06:33

Ernst has done. I really love how she's

1:06:35

strong militarily, but she's strong

1:06:37

conservative. She's a good communicator.

1:06:40

She continues to do great

1:06:42

things that we we really have

1:06:44

some good Republicans. I

1:06:46

mean, I I think it's hard for me to see

1:06:48

the most interesting because I tend to look at

1:06:50

the most tough or the ones that are more

1:06:53

substantive. I think Michael Waltz in

1:06:55

the house is fantastic. Like,

1:06:57

I think the way he gets the military and

1:07:00

strengthen the way he does that. I've really enjoyed

1:07:03

him. I love the fact that, you know,

1:07:05

we've got new leaders like Zach Nunn coming

1:07:07

in. I like the toughness of Nancy

1:07:09

Mace. There's a lot of good ones out there.

1:07:12

Who's the Democrat right now that you most admire?

1:07:15

I worked really well with Cardin

1:07:18

and Menendez on foreign policy

1:07:20

because I liked how they were

1:07:23

able to kind of put partisan stuff as side when

1:07:25

it came to foreign policy. So those are the two

1:07:27

that come to mind that I actually worked with.

1:07:29

Best American president

1:07:31

ever, between Abraham Lincoln and

1:07:33

Ronald Reagan. What's the best thing about South Carolina,

1:07:36

the people, hands down the people.

1:07:38

What's your favorite low country

1:07:40

staple? Mhmm. Shrimp and

1:07:42

grits. Is your favorite American singer

1:07:44

or band? Oh, so

1:07:47

I am a music buff. I have a lot.

1:07:49

I know you are. I love anyone from,

1:07:51

like, Meat Loaf, to Jeff

1:07:53

Leppert, to I think

1:07:55

the song I listened to before I got

1:07:57

on stage to give my my

1:07:59

speech of running for president was the

1:08:01

Aziyama's Bari Coast Malone song.

1:08:03

So, I mean, like, I just love

1:08:05

music. I love all music. What

1:08:08

is your biggest concern regarding America

1:08:10

right now? Number one concern, that

1:08:12

we've lost our purpose, that we've lost

1:08:14

our our core values of

1:08:17

who we are as Americans. What's

1:08:19

the last book that you read? J.

1:08:21

D. Vance's book. Was January sixth

1:08:23

an

1:08:23

insurrection, a riot, or a coup,

1:08:26

a sad day in America.

1:08:27

Would you support Trump if you were the candidate?

1:08:30

Yes. What's happening in America

1:08:32

right now that gives you the greatest amount of hope,

1:08:34

the next generation?

1:08:36

They it's more they don't care so much about

1:08:38

money is making sure they make a difference. And

1:08:40

I think a lot of people don't see

1:08:42

that. Who is the most admirable

1:08:45

person

1:08:45

that you've worked with in your political life?

1:08:47

HR McMaster. If you could

1:08:49

undo one policy mistake of

1:08:51

the last fifty years, what would it be?

1:08:54

You know, I think I think getting

1:08:56

involved in the war would

1:08:58

probably be a big

1:09:00

one. The war in Iraq? Yes.

1:09:02

Not the war in Afghanistan.

1:09:04

Well, I mean, it all kind of blended

1:09:06

together, but yes, fill in

1:09:08

the blank. The UN is a

1:09:11

farce. What's the last thing you changed

1:09:13

your mind about? What

1:09:15

song I'd come out to for

1:09:18

announcing president. What was it? What

1:09:20

what did you change from? I

1:09:22

love rock and roll to Tiger.

1:09:26

Was there a moment that you knew that you were gonna run

1:09:28

for president? I mean, Bill

1:09:29

Clinton knew he wanted to do it from a really

1:09:31

young age. Do you have the same kind of thing?

1:09:34

No. I actually wasn't that kid. I wasn't

1:09:36

that kid that was involved in politics.

1:09:38

I wasn't that kid that was in college Republicans.

1:09:41

I actually never was involved

1:09:43

in politics until I

1:09:47

came back home to work in the family business,

1:09:49

and I was telling my mom how

1:09:51

hard it was to make a dollar and how easy it

1:09:53

was for government take it, and my mom said

1:09:55

don't complain about it, do something about it.

1:09:57

I didn't know you weren't supposed to run against a thirty

1:10:00

year incumbent or

1:10:00

primary. He was the longest serving legislator

1:10:03

in South Carolina, once I got in, the only

1:10:05

option was to win. Vivek Ramaswani

1:10:07

is talking about banning social media for

1:10:09

kids under

1:10:10

sixteen. Do you think that's a good idea? I

1:10:12

think that's a parent's decision. Do

1:10:14

you think TikTok should be legal in America?

1:10:17

No. Do you think big tech

1:10:19

should be broken up? I think

1:10:21

that section two thirty

1:10:23

protected them on freedom speech when

1:10:25

they changed the

1:10:26

rules. I think they changed the rules on section

1:10:28

two thirty, and it needs to be opened back up again.

1:10:31

What should we be doing in this country about

1:10:33

the crisis of meaning among

1:10:36

young people and the fact that so many of them

1:10:38

are anxious and

1:10:39

depressed, do we need a religious revival? I

1:10:41

I always think a religious survival is an

1:10:43

amazing thing, but think more than that we have

1:10:45

to look at the harm that was done to them during

1:10:48

COVID. I saw it with my own children

1:10:50

and the idea that

1:10:52

we they were isolated, forced

1:10:55

isolation, forced masking,

1:10:57

forced closure, and then no

1:10:59

one focused on We've been

1:11:01

a country that has missed the mental health

1:11:04

issue before. Now

1:11:06

it's even more prevalent. And I think

1:11:08

the idea that we have to understand one

1:11:10

in or people have a

1:11:12

mental health issue. But if treated,

1:11:14

they can lead a perfectly normal life.

1:11:17

We need to commit as a country

1:11:19

to understand that the mental health issues in

1:11:21

this country are serious

1:11:22

problem, and we need to take

1:11:24

the time to really figure out how to make it right.

1:11:26

Okay, last question. You're a mom of

1:11:29

two young adults, as you mentioned before. After

1:11:31

a term of president of the United States, if

1:11:33

you win, what would you want to leave your

1:11:35

kids

1:11:35

with? What would you want your legacy to be?

1:11:38

I would want them to know that I

1:11:40

was a strong leader but never

1:11:42

stopped being a great mom because

1:11:45

I have always believed it's family first.

1:11:47

If I've always said if I'm a good mom

1:11:49

and a good wife, I'll be a good governor, I'll

1:11:51

be a good ambassador. And so it's

1:11:53

still for me as family first. I

1:11:57

I never want them to feel I'm not there

1:11:59

for them. And what I hope they take away

1:12:01

is no matter what job she

1:12:02

held, she was always there for us.

1:12:05

Nikki Haley from a hotel room in Austin

1:12:07

on the campaign trail. Thank you for taking

1:12:09

the time. I really appreciate it. Thanks. Tell

1:12:11

your listeners, go to niki hayley dot com.

1:12:13

Let's do this.

1:12:20

Thanks as always for listening. If you like

1:12:22

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