These are emotional times for Naomi Klein. As an activist, she has fought a lot of big battles. But now she’s waging what may be the fight of her life — against climate change — and many days, the odds seem stacked against her.

So what keeps her fighting? Whatever you do, don’t assume it’s because as a mom, she wants to give her kid a better future. And what gives her hope? Turns out she doesn’t really relate to that word. “Our chances aren’t good,” she tells Anna Maria Tremonti. She does, however, see “a pathway out of this crisis.”

Listen to their conversation to hear what it’s like to be on the frontlines of the fight for change — and the very emotional place it all started for Naomi Klein.