Andreas Malm joins me to talk about his new book, 'Corona, Climate, Chronic Emergency: War Communism in the Twenty-First Century'. We talked about why in the case of Covid19 most of the rich countries of the north were able to make the kinds of decisive interventions that seem to elude them when it comes to climate change. And we also talked about the experience of the Bolsheviks during the Russian civil war, and why war communism is a better model for the kind of mobilisation needed in the climate crisis than the usual invocation of the ramping of up of industrial production by the Western allies during WWII.