Episode Transcript
Transcripts are displayed as originally observed. Some content, including advertisements may have changed.
Use Ctrl + F to search
0:05
I always like to tell people cut out what you can
0:07
. This isn't about people living
0:09
in tree houses , living off of nuts and berries . This
0:11
is not what sustainability is meant to be . It's
0:13
about doing marginally better at the things that you
0:15
can .
0:31
Welcome to Responsibly Different , brought
0:33
to you by Campfire Consulting . In this
0:35
space , we kindle the stories , insights
0:37
and dialogues at the heart of conscious
0:39
consumerism and impactful business
0:41
practices . Each episode
0:43
is a journey into the essence of making
0:45
decisions and investments that nurture
0:48
positive change . Join our impact
0:50
strategist , brittany Angelo , as she dives
0:52
into the narratives of leaders and visionaries
0:54
who are reshaping what it means to
0:56
live and work with intention and
0:59
purpose .
1:01
On today's episode , I had the privilege of speaking
1:03
with Mikey Brigidio , who currently is serving
1:06
as the co-founder at Scrap , a startup
1:08
dedicated to creating data-driven
1:10
sustainable waste programs . Through
1:13
Scrap , mikey specializes in product
1:15
and packaging recyclability on
1:17
a global scale . Mikey was
1:19
born and raised in Massachusetts and
1:21
graduated from the University of New Hampshire in 2021
1:25
with a dual degree in mechanical
1:27
engineering and sustainability . His
1:29
professional interests include renewable energy
1:32
, sustainable systems and all
1:34
things trash . Welcome
1:37
everybody to the Responsibly Different podcast
1:40
. Today . I am so excited to have on
1:42
my what feels like a longtime
1:44
friend , mikey . I feel like we've known each other forever
1:46
. Hi , mikey .
1:48
Hi Brittany . Yeah , absolutely , I feel like we've
1:50
been around the UNH and sustainability
1:52
ecosystem for so long . It's like
1:54
we know each other without having actually spent that
1:56
much time in the same room .
1:58
Right , right , and I feel like that's what
2:00
I love about this podcast is it makes
2:03
it easier to ask people . Hey
2:05
, let's go back to the basis , let's really understand
2:08
what you do and let's talk . So
2:10
thank you for agreeing to come on the podcast
2:12
. I think our listeners are going to learn so
2:14
much from you today , so thanks for being here .
2:17
Yeah , absolutely happy to be here , and I always like
2:19
to start by just saying if
2:22
you ever put on like who wants to a millionaire
2:24
and they have the phone a friend and the question is about
2:26
trash , you're always welcome
2:28
to use my number . I will probably
2:30
know it . So if you're on Cash Cab
2:33
, who wants to be a millionaire ? I grew up watching
2:35
game shows all the time and you need a phone a friend
2:37
for a trash question . I got you covered
2:39
.
2:40
I love that . I actually love that show
2:42
, and I feel like I don't watch it much anymore . So
2:44
I'm now going to go search for where
2:46
the closest , where the most
2:48
recent Cash Cab episode is to watch .
2:50
Yeah , it was one of my favorites too .
2:53
So everybody at this point now is probably like
2:55
why does Mikey know so much about trash
2:57
? So , Mikey , let's actually
2:59
start off by talking about the
3:02
beginning of Scrap . So I
3:04
feel like what people see nowadays
3:07
is this really well-designed company
3:09
, but what people maybe don't know is
3:11
all of the hard work that went into getting you to where
3:13
you are now , and you have this
3:16
radiant positive outlook
3:18
on the workload in the overall
3:21
startup mentality , which is just so
3:23
fascinating but also so exciting
3:26
for me to be a part of . So thanks for welcoming
3:28
me into your community . To hone
3:30
in on my question here , Brittany , and stop rambling
3:32
I'm wondering what really inspired
3:35
you to start Scrap in 2019 ? And
3:37
how have you gotten to where you are now
3:39
? And , if I'm not mistaken , I think you were
3:41
an undergrad when you first took the first
3:44
steps of creating Scrap . So how
3:46
did UNH support you in
3:48
starting Scrap ?
3:50
Sure , so I can start . You know I'll
3:52
take the first part first . So basically
3:54
I have stumbled my way forward through
3:56
startup life Like I never intended
3:58
to run my own company . For context
4:01
, my background is in mechanical engineering and I
4:03
do have a dual degree in sustainability and
4:05
sustainable energy . I got
4:07
my sustainability degree by seeing a table tent
4:09
while I was at the dining hall and I was like that seems like it could
4:11
be kind of cool . You know , I don't necessarily
4:14
like . My background is actually in military
4:16
and defense and additionally high
4:18
speed cable development , so I have
4:20
no classical training
4:22
in solid waste at all . I
4:24
started Scrap with my co-founder , evan , when
4:26
we were on UNH's campus and shout
4:29
out UNH , they are number five platinum
4:31
rated in sustainability , but they still
4:33
get an F on their waste score every year
4:35
by the ACI standards . And if number five
4:37
is struggling like that , that trickles down
4:40
to every university . Solid waste is a
4:42
massive issue . So I started Scrap
4:44
by pretty much dumpster diving and looking at what people
4:46
were recycling or not recycling and what people
4:48
were throwing in the recycling bin that shouldn't be there
4:50
. So we created an SVIC
4:52
, which , for those that don't know , it's the Social Venture
4:54
Innovation Challenge sponsored by UNH . We
4:57
entered that . We're like we're going to win it . We're
4:59
going to do it Because the professor said you can either write a five-page
5:01
paper or do this project
5:04
, and I still hold to this day . I was going
5:06
to write the five-page paper because I said that's
5:08
definitely going to be easier than the project and
5:11
I still stand corrected . My
5:13
co-founder said oh , it'll be like an in and
5:15
out . It'll be like 15
5:17
hours worth of work will be done . It's a lot more
5:19
than 15 hours worth of work and we're still not done . So
5:22
we entered the SVIC and we actually lost , but
5:25
we sent it into the EPA as a joke at
5:27
the time and I say as a joke we were serious about
5:29
the thing , but we didn't think they'd take us
5:31
. The tagline was recycle your crap with our app
5:34
at the time
5:37
. So it turns out , they replied back like this is fantastic
5:39
, we'd love to have you come and present this would be great
5:41
to showcase . So we're there
5:43
, it's us nestle
5:45
, coca-cola , wm
5:48
, all of these companies , prestige brands , multi-billion
5:50
dollar market cap , multi-billion dollar profit
5:52
reports every year , and then three
5:55
guys with a sign so like
5:57
, we're just like , uh , okay , we'll make
5:59
it work . And so we actually got to meet with
6:01
the director of the epa at that time and then his deputy
6:03
and like his entourage , like you , they have the posse
6:05
right behind them . Unh actually supported
6:07
us . They gave us quarter zips to bring and stuff
6:10
rep the brand . They
6:12
said look , this is actually a really great idea that nobody
6:14
is doing . You're on to something . We're three
6:17
weeks in . Three weeks to four weeks in . At this
6:19
point , we're like if the director of the EPA tells
6:21
you that you should probably keep going . So
6:23
we did and we reentered the UNHSVIC
6:25
and we actually managed to win the
6:27
following year two out of the three categories , I
6:30
think ours were environmental
6:32
impact and then actually financial profitability
6:34
, because we've always wanted to design
6:36
the business in a way that it's actually
6:38
a self-functioning business , as we like to say profit
6:41
for purpose . That's no stranger to the B
6:43
Corp community , this , as we like to say , profit for purpose that's . That's
6:45
no , that's no stranger to the b corp community , but very much profit aligned , because
6:47
what we find a lot is a lot of people in the solid waste
6:49
space that do advocacy work are non-profits
6:51
. So when you're financially beholden
6:54
to the
6:56
industry you're supposed to regulate , it can cause
6:58
conflicts of interests , and we never wanted
7:00
there to be a conflict of interest between who
7:02
our customers were , which are communities , everyday
7:04
people , businesses and sometimes even waste management
7:07
infrastructure , and we wanted to make
7:09
sure we could navigate what was best for all parties
7:11
involved , not just one or the other . So
7:14
that's kind of the long answer . And
7:16
you and H , they've been a longtime friend of us . You
7:19
know I go and I teach some classes every once in a while
7:21
about like here's trash , here's what it is
7:23
, here's how it works . Classes every once in a while
7:25
about like here's trash , here's what it is , here's how it works , because everybody
7:27
thinks it's one person picking up your trash , processing it , recycling it and turning
7:29
it into a new bottle . That's like nine
7:32
. Like it's like a nine party chain
7:34
of custody in some instances . Like it's very
7:36
complex and involved , basically reverse
7:39
logistics , which we're now getting very used to . Um
7:41
, so I teach classes on
7:43
that and and they also you know they support us . We have a summer
7:46
sustainability fellow for the third year in a row . They've
7:49
been longtime friends . We went to the B impact clinic as
7:51
well and we just
7:53
had a very close relationship developing alongside
7:55
UNH and they're always the first person to their
7:58
first group to really test something out . That's
8:00
new .
8:00
Yeah , oh , wow . I have never
8:02
wanted to be an entrepreneur . I've never really wanted
8:05
to work at a startup . All of those things
8:07
are so like , so
8:09
fascinating to me and feel so out
8:11
of reach because they were never these dreams and
8:13
goals of mine . And I think what's like
8:15
probably the most like interesting
8:18
part about your story is like you
8:20
and Evan truly fumbled into this and you
8:22
were like , oh , instead of writing a paper , let's
8:24
go for the easy way out , like most college kids
8:26
do you know . And then it's like , here
8:29
you are five years later , six years later , and
8:31
you're like , oh my God
8:33
, we have a full-fledged company that's
8:35
making a massive impact on the world . So
8:37
first of all , congratulations , because
8:39
that is such a huge accomplishment . But also
8:41
, I think it's really inspiring to
8:43
a lot of people to know that this
8:46
doesn't have to be this well-thought-out
8:48
thing ahead of time . You
8:50
can kind of make it up as you go and keep
8:52
embracing every step through the process
8:54
.
8:54
Absolutely . I would say to
8:56
anybody who's thinking about taking that first step
8:59
, rule one never just quit your job
9:01
and say I'm going to start a company . That's not how
9:03
it works . It's very flipped . I still worked
9:05
at Amphenol and then I worked for the NHBSR
9:08
while I was working on Scrap . At the same time
9:10
, if
9:17
anything , get a job that will further your knowledge
9:20
in the field that you're looking to pursue . That's a misconception . People get Be
9:22
prepared to not take pay for four years . That's
9:24
also a very normal thing . That does not mean you're not successful . I had
9:26
the benefit of that . My family started
9:28
their own businesses . My grandfather immigrated over
9:30
, started a factory in his basement
9:32
, worked at a factory , started sweeping
9:34
floors , then got promoted all the way up to foreman and
9:36
ran a 20 person floor . Did not speak
9:38
English . When he came over , started his own
9:41
factory in the basement , started taking on jobs in the
9:43
basement , scaled that that out and it's a 60
9:45
person company today that my dad now runs
9:47
with his siblings . So I knew what
9:49
it was going to take . That's why I was kind of like I
9:52
think the paper is going to be easier because
9:54
I knew what it took to start a business . Granted
9:56
, that's in manufacturing and like very high
9:58
precision manufacturing , not trash . So
10:01
the skills don't always translate
10:03
, but it's good to see the sacrifices
10:05
that it's going to take ahead of time , because you
10:07
kind of know what you're getting into . And
10:10
I think anybody can be an
10:12
entrepreneur . It just depends on the type
10:14
of entrepreneur you want to be . Some
10:16
people just use it as a side hustle
10:18
. Some people flip furniture . That's entrepreneurship
10:21
. I don't even call myself an entrepreneur
10:23
because I'm a guy with a recycling software
10:25
. I never wanted
10:28
to go out and say I wanted to own my own business . I
10:30
knew I wanted to do something that had purpose
10:33
and this just happened to align . I think
10:35
entrepreneurs very specifically say I never
10:37
want to work for somebody else and I want to go
10:39
out and build a business . So
10:42
you immediately think Shark Tank , investments
10:44
, profit margins , p&l . It doesn't
10:46
always have to be that . It can just be as simple
10:49
as hey , I run a dog walking business
10:51
. You just do your taxes . At the end of the day
10:53
you have some extra pocket change , you might go on an extra vacation
10:55
and that's perfectly acceptable
10:58
. I think we get caught up in this . Who's going to
11:00
be the next Amazon ? Amazon is like
11:02
a one in a million , one in a billion company
11:04
. That will ever happen . Most startups
11:06
are in the hey , I do it on the side
11:08
for some extra cash . A lot of startups
11:10
do fall in that field , and that is perfectly
11:13
acceptable .
11:15
Thanks for sharing that insight . A
11:17
lot of that is new knowledge to me , so that's
11:19
interesting . Okay
11:21
, so you mentioned in that
11:24
last answer you know that Scrap
11:26
is an app , but Scrap is so much more
11:28
than just an app . So can you actually elaborate on
11:31
what is Scrap and what does Scrap
11:33
do for people ?
11:34
Yeah , so we started as an app , hence
11:36
the name Scrap . We actually have the trademark
11:39
on that in the United States because
11:41
it's a pun . You don't
11:43
need to pass the bar , apparently , if you just have a really
11:45
good dad joke . It circumvents patent
11:48
law and trademark law because there's a double
11:50
entendre . Obviously there needs to be an
11:52
element of sophistication there . But that is my one
11:54
funny story of lawyers cry
11:56
laughing when I say I got the trademark
11:59
off of a dad joke . It actually did work
12:01
against the PTO . But
12:03
anyway , what we are is we
12:05
wanted to build . The original
12:07
mission was to build an ecosystem for waste , because
12:10
the waste industry is very bad at talking to one
12:12
another . It's gotten significantly
12:14
better since 2018 , which
12:16
2018 is kind of like think
12:19
of that as the waste industry's 2008
12:21
, where essentially material markets
12:23
went into the negative industries . 2008
12:26
, where essentially material markets went into the negative , where basically
12:28
, instead of selling recycled material , you
12:30
had to pay someone to take your recycled
12:32
material . So
12:35
somebody was getting paid to take the material and make it into a box , which is completely
12:37
opposite of how it normally runs . Because China said no to the world's waste . What
12:40
we wanted to do was make it so people could talk to
12:42
one another . In industry
12:44
fashion , people tend to get really jargony
12:46
really quick . We wanted to boil
12:49
things down to a very simple answer that anybody
12:51
could understand and you could talk on the same level
12:53
. Even though there's a bunch of sophistication
12:55
in the back end , we wanted things to be approachable
12:57
to anybody . There's
13:00
a platform now that's web-based , where
13:02
you can actually upload your hauler invoices
13:04
, your supplier information , all of your
13:06
procurement and even your product line and
13:09
the way you input the information . It'll basically
13:11
tell you the waste impacts of that , based on where
13:13
you distribute . It also looks
13:16
at your operations and really tells you a lot
13:18
about what
13:20
waste is being produced from different avenues
13:22
, what opportunities are to reduce that waste
13:25
, because we started as a recycling app but
13:27
we're pivoting . As you will hear
13:29
a lot . Every startup pivots
13:31
or changes , so it's not about the initial game plan , it's about what
13:34
you want to do and how you're going to get . There is going
13:36
to change . So we
13:38
basically said a lot of times it's
13:40
not about recycling , it's just about designing it out . Like
13:47
if you're buying plastic water bottles for your business , you don't need a better recycling
13:49
rate , you just need a reusable water bottle . That's it like . Sometimes things are way simpler , that
13:51
you don't need to recycle things , um , and
13:54
that's what this new platform is really set up to do
13:56
and what we've really pivoted to . We always
13:58
emphasize reuse , donating like
14:00
, if you have a broken oven or a broken fridge , we
14:03
always tell people like , like , hey , like , if it can be repaired
14:05
, bring it to a repair shop and they'll fix it and then
14:07
resell it . But if it's beyond repair , you
14:09
know it does have to go to a landfill or a transfer
14:11
station . So this whole new platform
14:13
is really dedicated to bringing
14:15
understanding to your waste through
14:17
data . So you can track everything
14:19
, you can manage your program better , you have better insights
14:22
and then you can optimize your program and ultimately
14:24
, design waste out of your systems . So
14:27
A to Z . And then where the app comes in
14:29
, the app's like , hey , I still exist . That's
14:31
the education terminal , where anybody can
14:34
use it . Anybody
14:38
in the community can use it , anybody at the company can use it and interface with
14:40
that high level data in a very synthesized , easy way . So that's kind of what we are
14:42
Think about like smart waste programs powered
14:44
by data . That's basically what it boils down to , but
14:47
there's a lot of nuance in the middle .
14:49
I didn't want to interrupt you , but kind of towards the beginning
14:51
it sounded like you said hauler information
14:54
. Can you just tell me what that means ?
14:56
Oh , a hauler is somebody who picks up your
14:58
trash , so the guy who comes around in the truck is
15:00
the person who picks it up , and they haul
15:02
it away . So they are the
15:04
hauler . That's how we differentiate
15:06
between , like , recycler and hauler . Hauler
15:09
is the person who picks it up , and sometimes they
15:11
are the recycler as well , when they own
15:13
the recycling facility , and
15:15
then from there the recycler
15:17
is the person who's actually sorting the material
15:20
and recycling it . So just
15:22
to like kind of go through what happens to your waste when you throw
15:24
it in the bin , because this might be useful later too , so
15:26
here's your new wrinkles in the brain for the
15:28
day . So when you throw like
15:30
, say , I have an aluminum can next to me , so let's
15:33
throw an aluminum can away , and assuming you
15:35
do not live in a bottle deposit state
15:37
where you can redeem this for five or
15:39
10 cents , so you throw this in your
15:41
curbside recycling bin or you bring it to your
15:43
drop-off site . From there a hauler
15:46
comes and picks up that bin full
15:48
of this material . They bring it then
15:50
to what is called a sortation facility , which
15:52
some sortation facilities are also recycling
15:55
facilities which is the step after , where
15:57
it can sort and recycle the material
15:59
at the same time . Otherwise it
16:01
sorts it into cardboard here , glass
16:03
here they do this with air eddy
16:05
currents . They have all different sophisticated
16:08
technology and now robot arms
16:10
that will actually pick items out . So
16:12
you can program the robot arms to say I only
16:14
want this can and
16:16
this can only , and it'll go great , got it , I can
16:18
identify that and do it . Ai
16:20
has changed the way we handle waste entirely
16:23
. Then from there , after
16:25
it's sorted , it goes to the respondent
16:27
recyclers , which are either plastic based
16:30
, uh , paper , glass
16:32
, metal . All of them are their own specialized facilities
16:34
and from there , at plastic facilities
16:37
. They get sorted again based on their resin
16:39
type , like you know one , two , three , four
16:41
, five , six , seven , and then also like their
16:43
value as material , because there's every
16:46
waste trades like a commodity , the same
16:48
way gold or silver does , but
16:50
it's obviously it's not as valuable
16:53
as gold and silver , so it's an ultra low
16:55
value commodity that trades on the market the same
16:57
way From there , once it's added
16:59
to recyclers , the recyclers turn it back into the
17:01
raw material that's now made with recycled content
17:04
and they send it out to packaging companies to make
17:06
it again . So they'll make the same can over and over
17:08
again . So a good
17:10
example why recycling is really important is
17:13
that this aluminum can , if you made it out of
17:15
virgin aluminum , you have to smelt
17:17
it from aluminum bauxite , the raw ore , which
17:19
has a smelting temperature . I think I'll
17:22
say 2400 degrees C . It's very
17:24
hot . But when it's out of that
17:26
form and you smelt it at , say , 600
17:29
degrees C or 800 degrees C I
17:32
might need a fact check on the numbers , a little bit on the temperature
17:34
but you save 95%
17:36
of the energy needed to do
17:38
the to make the can again by using recycled
17:40
content because it's already in a workable form
17:43
. That's why recycling is just
17:45
incredibly important . Also
17:47
, I apologize for the landline . I'm one of the few
17:49
people that still has a landline in their house
17:51
.
17:53
I was wondering what that was .
17:55
Yes , I am a fossil in my own
17:57
right as well , Okay
18:00
, so kind of where my mind just went .
18:02
Where is you
18:04
know ? You mentioned that China isn't taking our
18:06
trash anymore , so you
18:09
just described this process . So do
18:12
we have a system here in the US where everything
18:14
that we recycle is getting repurposed
18:17
, or where does it ? Does it go to a landfill if it's
18:19
not getting repurposed ?
18:27
best . So that entirely . So now I talked about commodities a little bit . That depends on
18:29
the commodity . We're not really shipping aluminum across . So
18:31
basically , after China said no , we said
18:33
, how about other developing
18:35
Asian nations ? They might take it , and that's why
18:37
you see it in Indonesia , vietnam . That
18:40
has slowly come to a stop . Some
18:43
companies have banned waste exports
18:45
, but it's still a struggling
18:47
field . What ends up happening is
18:50
now the higher value
18:52
commodities . I can speak for New England . We
18:54
ship a lot of our glass and waste to Ohio
18:56
because the tipping fee is lower . So
18:59
you actually put it on a train and ship the waste to
19:01
Ohio because the landfill fee is less . We're
19:03
due to run out of landfill space in the Northeast
19:06
United States by 2040 . And in 2050
19:08
, they're officially closed . Where they do save
19:10
some room for , like the more things that need to
19:12
be put in a landfill , so they're sequestered , like
19:15
so that's things like you
19:17
know , busted up furniture , things like that
19:19
. That's like , okay , we need this , actually
19:21
has to go to a landfill , can't be processed any other
19:23
way . Um , but to answer your
19:25
question , we don't send it to china
19:27
anymore because china passed something called national sword
19:30
, sword and shield . Shield prevented
19:32
it further and sword caused penalties . That
19:34
would be any trash coming in . So
19:36
long story short
19:38
not to china , not to indonesia
19:41
, not to vietnam anymore . Now it's
19:43
having to be processed domestically
19:45
or they're shipping it out in more
19:47
creative ways . But that does depend on
19:49
what the commodity is . The high value
19:51
stuff , I'm fairly confident it does
19:53
stay in the United States . It's the lower value
19:56
commodities that end up going to different countries
19:58
, because if it's valuable we'll do
20:00
it here and we're building the infrastructure
20:02
to handle things here .
20:04
Okay , interesting . Wow , you
20:07
are like a walking encyclopedia
20:09
, dictionary , wikipedia
20:11
page , all into one person . It is fascinating
20:14
.
20:14
Exactly All things trash and recycling
20:16
. It's super interesting and I always
20:18
tell people and we always joke in the industry
20:21
. Nobody thought they were going to end up in the
20:23
trash business or the solid waste business . We
20:25
just kind of get stuck here because every day is different
20:27
. Think about it If you're a brand
20:29
and you're trying to stick out on the shelf
20:32
, you might package yourself in a different or unique
20:34
way . We are called passive
20:36
receivers . We do not control the material
20:39
flow that comes in and I like to say
20:41
trash tells a story and it unites us all
20:43
because I can tell
20:45
what somebody's habits are by looking at their solid
20:47
waste bin . I can tell
20:49
if they've had a rough week , if there's five pints
20:51
of Ben and Jerry's in their trash bin , if
21:06
there's a great example . Mardi Gras completely changes the solid waste infrastructure
21:08
of New Orleans because you have beads everywhere , disposable cups , because you're not allowed to bring drinks
21:10
from different bars . All these different aspects and think about it . In 2004 , most of the way
21:12
stream was made up of newspaper and paper . Nobody
21:15
sent , nobody mails anything anymore . Nobody
21:18
reads the paper . The way stream has entirely
21:20
changed in 16
21:22
years because of email and digital
21:24
printing wow , wow
21:26
so you have to think of it in that
21:28
way of if it because you make
21:30
a design choice as a brand , we as an industry
21:33
have to come in and deal with it in an entirely new
21:35
and different fashion . And that's why
21:37
ai is so revolutionary , because we
21:39
can basically tell it hey , you might have heard
21:41
, colgate's toothpaste tubes are actually
21:43
like recyclable from a material perspective
21:45
. Barring this is the debate that , right
21:48
, you
21:54
could recycle a Colgate or a Tom's . You
21:56
can't recycle the tube from
21:58
your Home Depot like you're . Caulking or
22:01
other brands of toothpaste might not use that format
22:04
. So before AI , we couldn't tell
22:06
who's on the safe list for toothpaste
22:08
tubes and who's on the not safe list . And
22:11
if you have too much contamination coming in , you have
22:13
to junk every other recyclable commodity
22:15
. Oh wow . So
22:17
it's very complicated and very changing . There's a
22:19
lot of nuance , hence why scrap exists
22:21
to help navigate the complexities
22:23
of it .
22:24
Okay , I have another question that I'm now dying
22:27
to ask , so I have to ask it . I
22:30
feel like a lot of the packaging
22:32
that companies are now shipping
22:34
, whatever my products that I buy
22:36
in are now compostable
22:39
and I guess , like , what does
22:41
the industry think of like these compostable
22:45
? I want to say they almost feel like plastic
22:47
material , but you know it says compostable on it
22:49
, but like it's almost
22:51
like a envelope kind of shape
22:54
, like are those actually helping ?
22:57
So that that comes down to it depends
22:59
you really need to pull the material certification
23:02
for things like this Paper
23:05
. I know there's a company called , I believe they're Ecovative
23:07
. They do mushroom packaging perfectly
23:09
home compostable . There are other people that
23:12
make styrofoam replacements
23:14
out of . I always called it chitin until
23:16
somebody corrected me . I also called quinoa quinoa
23:19
for four years and nobody corrected me . It's
23:21
chitin . By the way , there's a protein
23:24
in crustacean shells that's waste from
23:26
seafood that you can actually turn it into a styrofoam
23:28
or a foam substitute . So
23:30
there are innovations like that
23:32
that , yes , they are helping because you're substituting
23:35
polystyrene and PVC , which
23:37
are the two more toxic plastics that
23:39
contaminate other plastic recyclables
23:41
. That makes it so you can't even recycle a bottle
23:43
if it's mixed in with polystyrene in any
23:46
capacity . But
23:48
basically , yes , compostable packaging is
23:50
helping . But people that are just making
23:53
bioplastics and putting a biodegradable
23:55
enzyme in them so you just get microplastics faster
23:57
, that is not helping . So
24:01
it really depends on the supplier that they have whether it's going to help or not
24:03
. And then also a lot of the times they're certified for an
24:05
industrial compostable setting . So there's
24:07
, home compostable and industrially compostable
24:09
Home is like you can throw it in your backyard
24:11
and you're good . That's the gold
24:14
standard and that's what we should do , and , again
24:16
, pending that , material certification . The
24:18
second is industrial , which basically
24:20
means you need an industrial facility of the same
24:22
scale as the ones that
24:25
recycle the other materials , so it
24:27
has to be picked up , hauled and brought to a
24:29
spot that can process material in that
24:31
large of quantities and either anaerobically
24:33
digest it or whatever capacity it would
24:36
process it . So it's not really helping
24:38
because you basically removed fossil-based plastic
24:40
and put in bioplastics that have to be handled
24:42
the same way and can still produce microplastics
24:45
. So those ones are much more contentious
24:48
. And this is why , like we have compostable
24:50
tableware and like forks and spoons
24:52
, they're industrially compostable , because if they
24:54
were home compostable , you'd put them in your soup and you'd
24:56
pick up your spoon and there'd be no spoon .
24:58
Right . So am I a horrible
25:00
person ? If you know , I only
25:03
have home compost . I don't have industrial
25:05
compost . I guess technically
25:08
I could have it , but there's not many things
25:10
that are that I can't compost at home
25:12
, so I don't see the purpose of having industrial
25:14
compost . So if I'm putting those compostable
25:17
packaging into my trash
25:19
and it goes to the landfill like , is
25:21
that the worst thing in the world or is that okay ?
25:24
No , it's not the worst thing in the world . It's no different than
25:26
putting something in a landfill anyway . So when
25:28
fills are notoriously not inert
25:30
because they the capping
25:32
technology has gotten a lot better but
25:35
it can
25:37
leach into a water table like these are things they're resolving
25:39
. Now . It's not nearly as common as it used
25:41
to be . It's landfills built in like the early 1900s
25:44
or 1940s , before they had the technology to make
25:46
the liners very sophisticated , um
25:49
, but landfills are largely like
25:51
I'm going to use the term inert very loosely
25:53
, but basically somebody cut open a landfill
25:55
that was capped in 1945
25:57
, peeled back the cap and
26:00
you saw the newspaper talking about
26:02
the end of World War II , perfectly
26:05
intact . Wow so things don't degrade
26:07
in a landfill . They do produce methane
26:09
, which that methane
26:11
actually moves around , to which parts of the landfill are bioactive
26:13
. But by and large
26:16
, landfills are actually due to get mined
26:18
in the next 10 years . Fun
26:20
fact about this is you know why we call it a tin
26:23
can ?
26:24
No .
26:25
Because it used to be made entirely of tin , which
26:27
is a precious metal , with electronics because it's
26:29
used for soldering . So we were making
26:31
the cans for your beans out
26:33
of highly precious metals because we didn't
26:35
know what value it had . And there were things
26:37
we threw away , like copper , brass , things
26:39
that were very precious earth metals , and catalytic
26:42
converters which contain platinum
26:44
and , I think , palladium as well , both
26:46
incredibly expensive metals . People
26:49
are now contemplating cutting open old landfills
26:51
and mining the material out to
26:53
process and recycle it and recapture it
26:55
. So landfills like you're not a bad person
26:58
for putting something in a landfill , I
27:00
always like to tell people cut out what you can
27:02
. This isn't about people living
27:04
in tree houses , living off of nuts and berries . This
27:06
is not what sustainability is meant to be . It's
27:09
about doing marginally better at the things that you
27:11
can . I still eat meat . I tried
27:13
being a vegan , but I have dietary restrictions that
27:15
make it impossible for me to not eat meat
27:17
. Being a vegan , but I have dietary restrictions that make
27:19
it impossible for me to not eat meat . It's
27:24
very difficult , but I don't drive because I work remote , so I only put 2,000 miles a
27:26
year on my car . That's a win . I take a shorter shower . I don't
27:28
take a 45-minute shower and drain
27:30
the entire reservoir . In town , I plant
27:34
native cover crops for my lawn instead
27:36
of Kentucky bluegrass . This
27:39
is what we're talking about . The same thing is true with waste . Do
27:41
you really need it , yes or
27:43
no ? If the answer is no , just don't buy
27:46
it and the waste problem is solved
27:48
, because waste is when things are not used . And
27:51
so that's where , like , don't feel bad about putting something
27:53
in a landfill , feel bad when you buy a
27:55
ton of food , don't eat it and throw it away . That's
27:57
what's bad . That's the behavior that needs to change
28:00
. Everything can't be on demand all the
28:02
time .
28:02
Fascinating , okay , wow .
28:04
And it's just as much behavioral psychology
28:07
as this is a technology issue . It's behavioral
28:09
change which is arguably harder than
28:12
technology change , and that's what we do a lot
28:14
at . Scrap is like looking
28:18
at the behavior of waste , like I did a waste audit where I audited a family's plastic consumption
28:20
for a year , so I knew how
28:23
many times he gave his daughter juice , what
28:25
their morning routines were all of these different
28:27
things . By looking at the waste data and
28:29
going if you change this habit
28:31
, this much waste will drop .
28:35
Is that something that you really
28:37
do ? Often you
28:39
audit individual families to help them improve
28:41
.
28:42
That is more of a rare case , but we do audit
28:44
individual offices , so it's
28:47
the same feel Basically
28:49
. My friend is a brand designer and he did
28:51
this study because he just felt icky about plastic
28:53
and he actually saved all the plastic for a year . So
28:55
it's all in his office just stacked and
28:57
actually saved all the plastic for a year . So it's all in
28:59
his office , just stacked . And it's about making
29:02
people realize we were in a throwaway society for so long that
29:04
the whole idea is to confront people
29:07
about the waste that they have , because once it's out of
29:09
sight , it's out of mind and there really is no way
29:11
. And when you realize that
29:13
and this is why there's such a huge interest in recycling
29:15
right now is because we live in a consumption
29:17
economy where the biggest
29:19
metric of success in the United States is gross
29:22
domestic product . If you produced more
29:24
, it is fundamentally a good thing , and
29:26
this gets challenged when you put it through . This
29:28
is kind of an unfair test . But according
29:31
to the American economy , children with cancer
29:33
is a good thing because their treatment is very expensive
29:36
and generates more income and more gross domestic
29:38
product for the country . But everybody would
29:40
unanimously agree a child with cancer is a
29:42
very bad thing . So
29:44
this is the mismatch and this is why B Corps is so important
29:47
is you're not aligning yourself with infinite growth
29:49
as the
29:51
metric of success . It's about better outcomes
29:53
for all stakeholders and shareholders at the same
29:55
time , and that's why we chose to go
29:57
the B Corp route . But this is very true
30:00
of fast-moving consumer goods . These
30:02
companies don't measure their success on
30:04
how happy their drink made somebody . They
30:07
measure it on how many drinks , how many products
30:09
were sold when you're fundamentally confronted with
30:11
the waste associated with that product and you're not
30:13
comfortable with the waste being
30:15
produced . If that product didn't really
30:17
mean that much to you in the first place , you will no
30:19
longer buy it . So this is why
30:22
companies are really owning the recycling
30:24
narrative , or they're really trying to is
30:26
because it gets very , very challenging to
30:28
convince someone to consume mindlessly when they're
30:31
faced with the consequences of their consumption . And
30:33
that's a very meta analysis I appreciate
30:35
. But basically we've reached a point where people
30:37
are starting to realize they can't buy things
30:39
forever and have everything they want forever
30:42
and have it be sustainable . And
30:44
now companies are really trying
30:46
to take that over and really understand
30:48
and some with very good intentions as well . This isn't
30:50
like good versus evil in any sense of the word , to
30:53
really understand . How
30:55
can we make it so people can consume comfortably
30:57
, which I'm in the camp of just
31:00
buy what you need and then just be happy
31:02
with less ? Not everybody is of that
31:04
opinion .
31:05
Yeah , yeah , okay
31:08
, mikey
31:11
, you have shared so much with us , so thank you for
31:13
that . Of course , I'm
31:15
going to , you know , change
31:17
the topic slightly , although B Corp has come
31:19
up quite a bit for us already , but you
31:21
know you recently announced on LinkedIn
31:24
that Scrap became a B Corp , so congratulations
31:26
for that . That's pretty exciting , thank
31:33
you . Thank you , so go LinkedIn . I
31:37
would love to dive a little bit more into your story
31:39
and understand , like , what motivated Scrap
31:41
to pursue B Corp certification and
31:44
I believe that you actually started your
31:46
journey through the B Impact Clinic at UNH
31:49
, which you kind of already touched upon . But
31:51
can you share , maybe
31:53
, what it was like working with the students and then what it looked
31:56
like after you went out of the clinic
31:58
and pursued B Corp certification
32:00
?
32:00
Yes , the B Impact Clinic was awesome
32:03
. So , as a startup , I wear many hats and
32:05
one of them is I'm the chief sustainability officer
32:07
at Scrap . That's my primary
32:10
function . I'm also , if you couldn't tell
32:12
, at this point , I am our subject matter expertise
32:14
on recycling and solid waste in general
32:16
. So with that
32:18
I'm
32:20
very busy . I am responsible for three
32:23
countries recycling guidance US , canada
32:25
and UK and I do it at the municipal level
32:27
, so that is 27,500
32:30
municipalities and I am responsible
32:32
for that every year . So when
32:34
it comes to sustainability reporting , I'm like can
32:37
I just have the bee symbol , because this
32:39
app is free , that people can use ? Like is that
32:41
enough ? And Bee Lab is like well , you need to
32:43
document things , which is fair . I'm glad they
32:45
do that . So in comes the Bee Impact
32:48
Clinic , where the people who help
32:50
us were incredible . We trained student mentors
32:52
actual mentors and
32:54
then our student volunteers . That really just hunkered
32:56
down . We were lucky because of the
32:58
work that we do . We started at like a 68
33:01
and we needed the 17 points to make
33:03
up and a lot of that was the handbook
33:05
, and then we actually signed the legally binding
33:07
amendment to say , like we
33:09
have not only a fiduciary duty but
33:12
a societal and environmental duty at the same
33:14
time , which really passed
33:16
with little to no friction because we've been very honest and transparent about the mission . The same
33:18
time , which really passed with little to no friction because we've been very honest and transparent about the mission
33:20
the whole time . Like we've turned down very
33:22
like lucrative contracts because it was a conflict
33:24
of interest with , like ethics . Um
33:27
. So we were already pretty
33:29
on brand . We attracted the right people
33:31
where , if you're genuinely
33:33
interested , if you're doing b lab for
33:35
a marketing exercise , you're
33:37
going to have a harder time than if you're doing it for something
33:39
that's foundational and you're actually trying to do it . And
33:41
this is very true of recycling as well . If you're trying to
33:43
market that you're recyclable , you're
33:46
already going about it backwards . You should just let the product
33:48
speak for itself and that is the best marketing
33:50
possible . So our experience with UNH and
33:52
the B-Impact Clinic was awesome because we came
33:54
in mission-focused and
34:03
our volunteers were really passionate all the same and they were incredibly helpful in getting
34:05
things through the door and that's how we passed .
34:06
I think we had a score of 94.3 at the end
34:08
of it . So now that you are B Corp certified and you know there's
34:10
the local community here in New Hampshire , there's
34:13
the global community , there's I
34:16
mean , there's just the recycling
34:18
industry that other B Corps might be involved
34:20
in . I guess , like what's the most exciting
34:22
part about like now that you are
34:24
a certified B Corp , like what's
34:27
next in relationship to the community
34:29
and the certification for you all .
34:32
Yeah , I mean . What's next for
34:34
us is we want to connect with other brands
34:36
that are in the B Corp movement
34:38
, ultimately
34:43
because we
34:45
feel like there's a lot of alignment , a lot of people want to
34:47
do the right thing with their products , but it's very scary
34:49
, especially from a brand reputation standpoint
34:51
. It's a risk
34:53
issue when you don't know where your
34:55
product ends up entirely issue
34:59
when you don't know where your product ends up entirely and you know . With
35:01
the new ftc green guides , revisions , which are a myriad of , personally
35:03
, I think they're very relaxed . Considering septum
35:05
matter expertise , which basically , as long as it is
35:07
recyclable , in 60 of communities , you
35:09
can just say it's recyclable , which that's
35:12
a very low bar to clear , in my opinion
35:14
, relative to when aerospace components , if
35:16
I said your plane landed 60 at the time
35:19
I did my job , that would
35:21
quite literally not fly like
35:23
that just wouldn't work . Yeah , um . So
35:25
we really want to connect
35:27
with people and we always . I
35:30
know I've I I don't want to say I've become out of touch
35:32
, but because of my subject matter expertise I'm
35:35
certainly at a certain
35:37
level with recycling where I might
35:39
lose sight of what the average person is thinking
35:41
of , where that doesn't spend their day
35:43
just rummaging through trash for fun , where
35:46
I want to really understand what
35:48
are those questions that people have . How can we help
35:50
? Where can we meet people in the middle , how can
35:52
we educate and how can we feel
35:54
we felt there wasn't a lot of talk
35:56
about recycling in the B Corp community
35:59
, which is , it's , an afterthought
36:01
. You're running a business . A lot of B Corps are small
36:03
businesses that you know . You're wearing a million hats
36:05
. You shouldn't have to think about trash . You should
36:07
just trust that your hauler is going to take care of it for you in the right
36:10
way . And we wanted to really bring that conversation
36:12
to the community , talking about waste
36:14
issues , what they imply , because waste issues
36:17
are an environmental justice issue as
36:19
well . So if there's anybody from the B Corp
36:21
community listening and they just have recycling questions
36:23
, if you could not tell by this point , I am very
36:25
happy to answer recycling questions and
36:28
composting questions and waste questions and what
36:30
it means for society . Because , I
36:32
know everybody thinks like , oh , as
36:34
long as it's not in a landfill , it's fine . Things
36:36
like litter actually impact community health
36:38
, not from just like an actual biological
36:41
health standpoint . But there are
36:43
certain instances where you can reduce crime
36:45
by upwards of 40% by just keeping a
36:47
neighborhood clean , because drug dealers feel very
36:49
uncomfortable by keeping a neighborhood
36:51
clean and that is a different societal motivator
36:54
. I do actually this fun comparison
36:56
in some lectures between how Philly deals
36:58
with recycling versus how my hometown of
37:00
Burlington , massachusetts , does , because Burlington
37:03
has tripled the household income of
37:05
Philly and about
37:08
30% of the primary . So
37:10
we recycle , so we feel good about all the things that
37:12
we buy , so it justifies
37:14
the expense that we paid and we're like , oh , we're doing the right
37:16
thing for the environment . People in Philly
37:18
recycle and this is a story from my
37:20
friend who's a hauler in Philly . They
37:23
don't care about the environment , they're struggling to
37:25
survive and make ends meet in their households . If
37:27
you tell them keeping the neighborhood clean keeps
37:29
drugs away from their children , they will
37:31
do it . And that's not saying Philly's a developing
37:33
nation with a crime issue . That is not the point whatsoever
37:36
. But the societal and community
37:38
motivators are entirely different
37:40
relative to where you are
37:42
. And that's something people don't
37:44
realize that waste is a societal issue
37:47
, not necessarily an environmental
37:49
issue . But we tend to miss that . And
37:51
it's an economic issue too , because improper
37:53
disposal leads to health hazards quite
37:55
frequently .
37:56
Right , wow , okay
37:58
. So I feel like you kind of have already talked about
38:00
, like you know
38:02
, some of the struggles of
38:04
the industry , but I guess I want to
38:06
ask you now , like let's think about
38:09
the future and like the hopes of the
38:11
future , I'm wondering , like where
38:13
do you see the concept of circular
38:15
economy evolving in the next few years
38:17
, and like what's the specific
38:20
role that you envision that scrap can play in
38:22
that transformation ?
38:24
Yeah . So I think the circular
38:26
economy , so circularity
38:29
has , you know , sustainability turned into a greenwashing
38:31
buzzword , yeah , and so , like
38:34
I always tell people about this , I have to put
38:36
up the definition of sustainability on the whiteboard
38:38
. And what is sustainable ? I said this is a
38:40
failure of the English language , because you can
38:42
use it in the tense like something
38:45
that emits nine kilograms of CO2
38:47
is more sustainable than
38:49
what emits 10 kilograms of CO2
38:53
. Neither are sustainable because
38:55
they emit nine or 10 grams of CO2.
38:57
, but because of the way the English language
38:59
works , you can say , oh , this is sustainable relative
39:02
to the other , and that's where the
39:04
fault is , where it's like you can't get a marketer on
39:06
that because , like , they're technically using
39:08
the word correctly . So
39:13
that's how I kind of start , because the solid waste industry is like we're being sustainable . I'm
39:15
like not really , you're processing trash and putting it in a hole in the ground , like
39:17
sometimes , and they're also recycling and there's other
39:19
aspects too , like it's
39:21
far more complicated . And so when
39:23
we talk about the industry , like where we've been
39:25
before and I'll get to the circular economy
39:27
piece after is that you basically
39:30
told an entire generation study and stay in
39:32
school , you're going to be a trash man , but they forgot to tell you
39:34
the guy who drives the truck makes more than the school
39:36
superintendent . Oh , it's a
39:38
very trash . People aren't
39:40
poor . Like it's not a poor person's job , it's
39:42
a very like dignified job with good hours
39:44
and you make good money . And that's truck drivers
39:47
. There are resource managers , there are professional engineers
39:49
this
39:54
is an entire space where the average age was like 56 years old . So I came in
39:56
at 21 like hi , does anybody want to teach me
39:58
about trash ? And I had mentors come out of the woodwork like
40:00
we need someone to pass this knowledge down to . So
40:02
, if you're looking for a change of pace , there are people hiring
40:05
for solid waste stuff , and
40:07
this is what's been amazing about AI is
40:10
you have a bunch of people that were never college
40:12
educated . Now , granted , there are very
40:14
highly educated people in the solid waste space
40:16
, but the industry as a whole , when you talk
40:18
about the blue-collar guys that are working
40:20
the floor in a very manual , labor-intensive
40:23
field , relative to the white-collar
40:25
guys running the facility , business decisions
40:27
, etc . And some of those white-collar people
40:29
worked their way up and never needed the degree
40:32
when you talk artificial intelligence , sops
40:35
, these kinds of things , they're not
40:37
necessarily first nature . They're
40:39
not going to take a consultant's approach because
40:41
they're just going to get the job done , and I like that about
40:43
the industry . They very much roll up the sleeves and just do
40:46
it , no
40:51
sense standing around and talking about it . So you have an aging industry of a very different
40:53
skill set . Now a new age of industry coming in with a very different skill set
40:55
as well . Especially where solid
40:58
waste used to be like the contents being
41:00
thrown out , not the packaging , now
41:03
packaging dominates that waste stream and
41:05
where there's a policy coming out called an epr
41:07
extended producer responsibility which
41:09
has existed for years , but it's only
41:12
existed for things like smoke detectors , where
41:14
, because of the mercury in a smoke
41:16
detector , it has to go to hazardous waste in
41:19
the smoke detector company . In the mattress
41:21
company as well because mattresses are have
41:23
an epr fee on them as well because they can't
41:25
go into landfill you have to pay a special
41:27
fee at the purchase to
41:30
fund the collection of that item . This
41:32
is now becoming true of every
41:34
single item on the shelf , the way
41:37
it's packaged uh , cardboard
41:39
box , bottle , electronics , all
41:41
of it . You have to pay now a tax on top
41:43
of that to fund the collection
41:45
of the item later down the line . So now
41:47
the waste industry . The narrative
41:49
is now being dominated by brands that want to take
41:51
accountability for their products . Before
41:54
, waste was this amorphous blob
41:56
. Now it's specifically the
41:58
Coca-Cola can in the stream , the Colgate
42:00
toothpaste tube in the stream , even
42:04
Aunt May's local honey syrup
42:06
in the stream . All of these things
42:08
are now individually identified
42:10
at
42:13
a product specific level
42:15
, not this gigantic bubble
42:17
of waste as a whole where it's like
42:19
can
42:25
we recycle it ? What can we do ? What can we do with this item ? So I think
42:28
the circularity like narrative , I think that's being a bit misused
42:30
at the current moment because we're not at
42:32
what we call bottle to bottle recycling
42:34
yet , which a lot of commodities that
42:36
are recycled are downcycled , which
42:38
means I'll take plastic
42:41
bags , like great example . Plastic film bags
42:43
are usually shredded and then turned into Trex decking
42:45
. So like great , we recycled
42:48
it , we made something useful out of it . But how much decking
42:50
and park benches do we really need ? We
42:52
kind of need to be back in the bags . So
42:55
there's a lot . I could talk for like 10 minutes about
42:57
material loss and that recycling isn't 100%
42:59
in , 100% out . Great
43:01
example you got a PET bottle like
43:03
your drink bottle only about 83%
43:06
of that material . When you recycle , that bottle comes
43:08
back out as usable . The rest is lost to
43:11
the machinery or lost due to like , not
43:13
useful , etc . And this is true of paper
43:15
and aluminum as well . You do have some loss . So
43:17
we're talking about circularity
43:20
as a buzzword when we're really not there yet
43:22
. And I what concerns me is that
43:24
we're kind of setting ourselves up
43:26
to over promise and under deliver , like
43:29
every single large company that had zero
43:31
waste goals for 2025 has
43:33
kicked them to 2030 or 2040
43:36
. So it's like how are you going to get
43:38
consumer or everyday person buy-in
43:40
when you're not holding yourself accountable
43:43
to your policies and , to be fair , some
43:45
of them had very good explanations as to
43:47
why they did . I'm not saying it was malicious
43:49
, but when you're setting yourself up to fail
43:52
and people just saw this waste
43:54
pile up in the ocean , you're going
43:56
to create very difficult engagement barriers
43:58
around the circular economy . So I'm hoping
44:00
in the future it becomes
44:02
a societal benefit , but I think
44:04
right now it's a corporate marketing
44:07
exercise which I would like it to transition
44:09
much more forward to the sustainable
44:11
future for everybody .
44:15
So how's Scrap going to help do
44:17
that ?
44:18
Basically , we track everything and
44:20
we measure everything , and if you're going
44:22
to do sustainability or circular economies
44:24
right , you need
44:26
the data to back it up to do it right , and
44:29
that's what we specialize in . We basically are
44:31
your accountant for waste . So when
44:33
you think about it , taxes are coming due for
44:35
trash you scrap . We
44:37
are your QuickBooks for trash . That is essentially
44:40
how it works . Um , so we can track
44:42
, like , if you set up custom recycling programs in
44:44
your office , we actually program your bins in so
44:46
we know which items are moving where and why , so
44:49
we actually see the flow of waste , or
44:51
the waste stream as we call it yeah so
44:53
we can see what's going up , what needs to be designed out upstream
44:56
, what's going out of the building downstream
44:58
, what's in the waste stream through the building
45:00
, and really we're bringing that expertise
45:02
and that knowledge throughout to really
45:04
understand what is going on in your building
45:07
or your town or your household .
45:09
Yeah , yeah . I'm wondering are there
45:11
any like case studies that you could talk
45:13
about ? Like , are there any projects that you've
45:16
maybe recently worked on or any upcoming projects
45:19
that you're excited about
45:21
that you could share with our listeners ?
45:23
Yeah . So I think the big thing is
45:25
we actually just launched with Avon Cosmetics for
45:27
their top 100 products . They
45:29
have over 10,000 products , so before they took
45:32
on something of organizing all that data , we
45:34
went ahead and just said why don't we do the first
45:37
100 ? And so across the UK they're
45:39
having their reps use the app and teach people
45:41
about what they can do in their community with the product
45:43
. Because we do location and product-specific
45:46
recycling guidance . That's our specialty
45:48
, so that's a huge project we're
45:50
excited about . We just concluded
45:52
our trial at Heathrow Airport . We got mixed
45:54
results . What we found out is if you're going to
45:57
put out hardware , assume people are going
45:59
to borderline . Take a sledgehammer to it . People
46:01
are very rough with hardware , especially in a terminal
46:04
that has millions of people coming through it all the time
46:06
. Yeah , but
46:08
we got some really great insights around consumer
46:10
behavior with waste , where a lot of people do actually
46:13
want to do the right thing there's
46:16
just a knowledge gap , and when you shrink that knowledge gap , people become
46:18
better at doing things . So that was
46:20
a really great insight as well .
46:22
When you say hardware like , what did that
46:24
hardware look like ?
46:26
So we have a policy that we don't want
46:28
to make more waste trying to solve the problem
46:30
. So you might see , there are companies
46:32
that do smart bins which , like they have the big TV
46:34
screen and then like as a camera and it's like
46:36
oh , this goes here . I don't necessarily
46:39
think that the solution to the solid waste problem is
46:41
a giant TV screen over every trash bin
46:43
. To me that just sounds a little bit
46:45
counterintuitive , which I
46:47
could be wrong , because consumer engagement is very
46:50
important in this type of thing and
46:53
there are some instances where that is an appropriate solution
46:55
, especially around education , where
46:57
we designed a
47:00
station out of used
47:02
samsung tablets so
47:04
we could basically build a recycling
47:06
station out of off-the-shelf hardware
47:08
, smack it together very low cost
47:11
, so anybody could have access to a smart bin
47:13
, and so the hardware
47:15
was like we had charging cables plugged
47:17
in uh to the tablets and stuff like that
47:19
. Where someone wants to charge their phone
47:21
, they'll just take the charger out of the tablet
47:23
, like . Like it was silly things like that
47:25
We've never had an . We've rolled out in like over nine
47:28
offices and the offices have done really , really well
47:30
and we've had no downtime . It's just , we've
47:32
never carried it to a terminal that big
47:34
where people will do things you would never expect
47:36
.
47:37
Yeah , okay , all right , I can
47:39
see how that happened , yeah .
47:40
Cool . Yes , so like works very well
47:42
in an office . Doing it at
47:44
an airport . There are different expectations
47:47
of a facility of that magnitude
47:49
. Yeah
48:02
, how people it's like the the amount of resources that people feel that they need and have when
48:04
they're in an airport is not normal consumer behavior . Exactly , everybody's
48:06
in a rush , so basically , an airport just brings
48:08
out the worst at everybody .
48:10
It really does .
48:11
In a rush , you're sitting in a line , you're
48:13
getting frisked by TSA
48:15
or whatever organization is there
48:17
.
48:19
You're on somebody else's timetable . You
48:21
have no control over your own
48:24
timing .
48:25
Right when everybody's basically just to the point like
48:27
F it , I'm just throwing this wherever . That is a
48:29
very difficult behavioral environment to get
48:31
the change . Yeah , but versus
48:33
if someone's in the comfort of their own home and , like I , got a few
48:35
seconds , let me scan this and figure it out . And that's why
48:37
we've always taken the approach . We never
48:39
want to reward a ton of scanning
48:42
, like that's not really the purpose of
48:44
the app . Our purpose is to say we
48:46
taught you what happens with this once . If
48:49
you need ever need to check again , you are welcome to , and
48:52
then you now know . So you know you
48:54
can do whatever you need to do . Like it's
48:56
kind of we took the hinge model and said designed
48:58
to be deleted , that space
49:01
scrap is meant to do , but for trash , not
49:03
for dating .
49:04
Yeah , yeah , yeah , cool .
49:06
Unless you are very into trash in that way , which
49:08
I can comfortably say I am not . But
49:10
to each their own .
49:11
Yeah , yeah , oh
49:13
wow , Mikey , you shared so
49:16
much with us and our listeners
49:18
and me and my
49:21
brain is like at max capacity
49:24
. I can't learn anything else today . I possibly can't
49:26
because I just learned so much from you . So
49:28
thank you so much for taking the time
49:30
to educate myself and our listeners
49:32
and to . You know , share everything
49:35
from starting a company to learning
49:37
a brand new industry and just getting thrown in . I love
49:39
that .
49:40
Thank you . I appreciate you having me on
49:42
and , like I said , if anybody has any questions
49:44
, just reach out . I'm
49:47
not going to start the clock and say it's billable
49:49
hours , I just like to help people and answer
49:51
their questions . I don't think anybody should be gatekeeped
49:53
from an education , which is why you
49:56
know what Scrap does now . We're really good
49:58
at trash and recycling . So if you need our help
50:00
, call us , but if you just want to learn something
50:02
, just ask . Because my crowning
50:04
achievement was I taught a class
50:07
at phillips , exeter , and one
50:09
girl showed up and it was an hour . Class
50:11
hour came by . Over
50:13
70 percent of the students still chose to stay
50:16
and I just kept answering questions . It
50:18
was an . It was 40 minutes over at that point
50:20
and one student goes . I'm sorry I have to go , but
50:22
like this was like really , really interesting . I
50:24
meant to come to my sister's final project but
50:26
I sat in the wrong room and it took about 10 minutes
50:28
for me to realize . But this seemed more interesting anyway
50:30
, so I decided to stay . So if
50:33
you're very good at presenting and you're very engaging
50:35
, trash even beats family , apparently
50:37
. So I don't know if it's a good
50:39
life lesson , but I am more than happy to
50:41
talk the spots off of Dalmatian when it comes to waste
50:44
and make sure everybody is able to make the right
50:46
decisions for themselves or their organizations
50:48
.
50:50
And I will put all of Mikey's information in the
50:52
show notes so that people can reach out to you . But
50:55
seriously , thank you so , so much
50:58
. Welcome to the B Corp community and I
51:00
cannot wait to see what you do now that you
51:02
are an active member .
51:04
Thank you . I'm looking forward to sinking
51:06
my teeth and really diving into the B Corp
51:08
movement . It's been a long time coming
51:10
and we're really excited to be a part of it .
51:20
Thank you for joining us on Responsibly Different
51:22
a Campfire Consulting Initiative . We
51:24
hope today's conversation has sparked new ideas
51:27
and inspired action towards purposeful
51:29
leadership and sustainable choices For
51:31
insights and strategies that elevate your brand
51:34
story in a meaningful way . Visit us
51:36
at campfireconsulting
51:38
. Don't forget to subscribe , rate
51:40
and share , as every interaction helps
51:43
spread the warmth of responsible living . Until
51:45
next time , keep the fire of curiosity alive
51:48
and embrace the power of being
51:50
responsibly different .
Podchaser is the ultimate destination for podcast data, search, and discovery. Learn More