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The Future of Waste with Scrapp

The Future of Waste with Scrapp

Released Thursday, 15th August 2024
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The Future of Waste with Scrapp

The Future of Waste with Scrapp

The Future of Waste with Scrapp

The Future of Waste with Scrapp

Thursday, 15th August 2024
Good episode? Give it some love!
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Episode Transcript

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0:05

I always like to tell people cut out what you can

0:07

. This isn't about people living

0:09

in tree houses , living off of nuts and berries . This

0:11

is not what sustainability is meant to be . It's

0:13

about doing marginally better at the things that you

0:15

can .

0:31

Welcome to Responsibly Different , brought

0:33

to you by Campfire Consulting . In this

0:35

space , we kindle the stories , insights

0:37

and dialogues at the heart of conscious

0:39

consumerism and impactful business

0:41

practices . Each episode

0:43

is a journey into the essence of making

0:45

decisions and investments that nurture

0:48

positive change . Join our impact

0:50

strategist , brittany Angelo , as she dives

0:52

into the narratives of leaders and visionaries

0:54

who are reshaping what it means to

0:56

live and work with intention and

0:59

purpose .

1:01

On today's episode , I had the privilege of speaking

1:03

with Mikey Brigidio , who currently is serving

1:06

as the co-founder at Scrap , a startup

1:08

dedicated to creating data-driven

1:10

sustainable waste programs . Through

1:13

Scrap , mikey specializes in product

1:15

and packaging recyclability on

1:17

a global scale . Mikey was

1:19

born and raised in Massachusetts and

1:21

graduated from the University of New Hampshire in 2021

1:25

with a dual degree in mechanical

1:27

engineering and sustainability . His

1:29

professional interests include renewable energy

1:32

, sustainable systems and all

1:34

things trash . Welcome

1:37

everybody to the Responsibly Different podcast

1:40

. Today . I am so excited to have on

1:42

my what feels like a longtime

1:44

friend , mikey . I feel like we've known each other forever

1:46

. Hi , mikey .

1:48

Hi Brittany . Yeah , absolutely , I feel like we've

1:50

been around the UNH and sustainability

1:52

ecosystem for so long . It's like

1:54

we know each other without having actually spent that

1:56

much time in the same room .

1:58

Right , right , and I feel like that's what

2:00

I love about this podcast is it makes

2:03

it easier to ask people . Hey

2:05

, let's go back to the basis , let's really understand

2:08

what you do and let's talk . So

2:10

thank you for agreeing to come on the podcast

2:12

. I think our listeners are going to learn so

2:14

much from you today , so thanks for being here .

2:17

Yeah , absolutely happy to be here , and I always like

2:19

to start by just saying if

2:22

you ever put on like who wants to a millionaire

2:24

and they have the phone a friend and the question is about

2:26

trash , you're always welcome

2:28

to use my number . I will probably

2:30

know it . So if you're on Cash Cab

2:33

, who wants to be a millionaire ? I grew up watching

2:35

game shows all the time and you need a phone a friend

2:37

for a trash question . I got you covered

2:39

.

2:40

I love that . I actually love that show

2:42

, and I feel like I don't watch it much anymore . So

2:44

I'm now going to go search for where

2:46

the closest , where the most

2:48

recent Cash Cab episode is to watch .

2:50

Yeah , it was one of my favorites too .

2:53

So everybody at this point now is probably like

2:55

why does Mikey know so much about trash

2:57

? So , Mikey , let's actually

2:59

start off by talking about the

3:02

beginning of Scrap . So I

3:04

feel like what people see nowadays

3:07

is this really well-designed company

3:09

, but what people maybe don't know is

3:11

all of the hard work that went into getting you to where

3:13

you are now , and you have this

3:16

radiant positive outlook

3:18

on the workload in the overall

3:21

startup mentality , which is just so

3:23

fascinating but also so exciting

3:26

for me to be a part of . So thanks for welcoming

3:28

me into your community . To hone

3:30

in on my question here , Brittany , and stop rambling

3:32

I'm wondering what really inspired

3:35

you to start Scrap in 2019 ? And

3:37

how have you gotten to where you are now

3:39

? And , if I'm not mistaken , I think you were

3:41

an undergrad when you first took the first

3:44

steps of creating Scrap . So how

3:46

did UNH support you in

3:48

starting Scrap ?

3:50

Sure , so I can start . You know I'll

3:52

take the first part first . So basically

3:54

I have stumbled my way forward through

3:56

startup life Like I never intended

3:58

to run my own company . For context

4:01

, my background is in mechanical engineering and I

4:03

do have a dual degree in sustainability and

4:05

sustainable energy . I got

4:07

my sustainability degree by seeing a table tent

4:09

while I was at the dining hall and I was like that seems like it could

4:11

be kind of cool . You know , I don't necessarily

4:14

like . My background is actually in military

4:16

and defense and additionally high

4:18

speed cable development , so I have

4:20

no classical training

4:22

in solid waste at all . I

4:24

started Scrap with my co-founder , evan , when

4:26

we were on UNH's campus and shout

4:29

out UNH , they are number five platinum

4:31

rated in sustainability , but they still

4:33

get an F on their waste score every year

4:35

by the ACI standards . And if number five

4:37

is struggling like that , that trickles down

4:40

to every university . Solid waste is a

4:42

massive issue . So I started Scrap

4:44

by pretty much dumpster diving and looking at what people

4:46

were recycling or not recycling and what people

4:48

were throwing in the recycling bin that shouldn't be there

4:50

. So we created an SVIC

4:52

, which , for those that don't know , it's the Social Venture

4:54

Innovation Challenge sponsored by UNH . We

4:57

entered that . We're like we're going to win it . We're

4:59

going to do it Because the professor said you can either write a five-page

5:01

paper or do this project

5:04

, and I still hold to this day . I was going

5:06

to write the five-page paper because I said that's

5:08

definitely going to be easier than the project and

5:11

I still stand corrected . My

5:13

co-founder said oh , it'll be like an in and

5:15

out . It'll be like 15

5:17

hours worth of work will be done . It's a lot more

5:19

than 15 hours worth of work and we're still not done . So

5:22

we entered the SVIC and we actually lost , but

5:25

we sent it into the EPA as a joke at

5:27

the time and I say as a joke we were serious about

5:29

the thing , but we didn't think they'd take us

5:31

. The tagline was recycle your crap with our app

5:34

at the time

5:37

. So it turns out , they replied back like this is fantastic

5:39

, we'd love to have you come and present this would be great

5:41

to showcase . So we're there

5:43

, it's us nestle

5:45

, coca-cola , wm

5:48

, all of these companies , prestige brands , multi-billion

5:50

dollar market cap , multi-billion dollar profit

5:52

reports every year , and then three

5:55

guys with a sign so like

5:57

, we're just like , uh , okay , we'll make

5:59

it work . And so we actually got to meet with

6:01

the director of the epa at that time and then his deputy

6:03

and like his entourage , like you , they have the posse

6:05

right behind them . Unh actually supported

6:07

us . They gave us quarter zips to bring and stuff

6:10

rep the brand . They

6:12

said look , this is actually a really great idea that nobody

6:14

is doing . You're on to something . We're three

6:17

weeks in . Three weeks to four weeks in . At this

6:19

point , we're like if the director of the EPA tells

6:21

you that you should probably keep going . So

6:23

we did and we reentered the UNHSVIC

6:25

and we actually managed to win the

6:27

following year two out of the three categories , I

6:30

think ours were environmental

6:32

impact and then actually financial profitability

6:34

, because we've always wanted to design

6:36

the business in a way that it's actually

6:38

a self-functioning business , as we like to say profit

6:41

for purpose . That's no stranger to the B

6:43

Corp community , this , as we like to say , profit for purpose that's . That's

6:45

no , that's no stranger to the b corp community , but very much profit aligned , because

6:47

what we find a lot is a lot of people in the solid waste

6:49

space that do advocacy work are non-profits

6:51

. So when you're financially beholden

6:54

to the

6:56

industry you're supposed to regulate , it can cause

6:58

conflicts of interests , and we never wanted

7:00

there to be a conflict of interest between who

7:02

our customers were , which are communities , everyday

7:04

people , businesses and sometimes even waste management

7:07

infrastructure , and we wanted to make

7:09

sure we could navigate what was best for all parties

7:11

involved , not just one or the other . So

7:14

that's kind of the long answer . And

7:16

you and H , they've been a longtime friend of us . You

7:19

know I go and I teach some classes every once in a while

7:21

about like here's trash , here's what it is

7:23

, here's how it works . Classes every once in a while

7:25

about like here's trash , here's what it is , here's how it works , because everybody

7:27

thinks it's one person picking up your trash , processing it , recycling it and turning

7:29

it into a new bottle . That's like nine

7:32

. Like it's like a nine party chain

7:34

of custody in some instances . Like it's very

7:36

complex and involved , basically reverse

7:39

logistics , which we're now getting very used to . Um

7:41

, so I teach classes on

7:43

that and and they also you know they support us . We have a summer

7:46

sustainability fellow for the third year in a row . They've

7:49

been longtime friends . We went to the B impact clinic as

7:51

well and we just

7:53

had a very close relationship developing alongside

7:55

UNH and they're always the first person to their

7:58

first group to really test something out . That's

8:00

new .

8:00

Yeah , oh , wow . I have never

8:02

wanted to be an entrepreneur . I've never really wanted

8:05

to work at a startup . All of those things

8:07

are so like , so

8:09

fascinating to me and feel so out

8:11

of reach because they were never these dreams and

8:13

goals of mine . And I think what's like

8:15

probably the most like interesting

8:18

part about your story is like you

8:20

and Evan truly fumbled into this and you

8:22

were like , oh , instead of writing a paper , let's

8:24

go for the easy way out , like most college kids

8:26

do you know . And then it's like , here

8:29

you are five years later , six years later , and

8:31

you're like , oh my God

8:33

, we have a full-fledged company that's

8:35

making a massive impact on the world . So

8:37

first of all , congratulations , because

8:39

that is such a huge accomplishment . But also

8:41

, I think it's really inspiring to

8:43

a lot of people to know that this

8:46

doesn't have to be this well-thought-out

8:48

thing ahead of time . You

8:50

can kind of make it up as you go and keep

8:52

embracing every step through the process

8:54

.

8:54

Absolutely . I would say to

8:56

anybody who's thinking about taking that first step

8:59

, rule one never just quit your job

9:01

and say I'm going to start a company . That's not how

9:03

it works . It's very flipped . I still worked

9:05

at Amphenol and then I worked for the NHBSR

9:08

while I was working on Scrap . At the same time

9:10

, if

9:17

anything , get a job that will further your knowledge

9:20

in the field that you're looking to pursue . That's a misconception . People get Be

9:22

prepared to not take pay for four years . That's

9:24

also a very normal thing . That does not mean you're not successful . I had

9:26

the benefit of that . My family started

9:28

their own businesses . My grandfather immigrated over

9:30

, started a factory in his basement

9:32

, worked at a factory , started sweeping

9:34

floors , then got promoted all the way up to foreman and

9:36

ran a 20 person floor . Did not speak

9:38

English . When he came over , started his own

9:41

factory in the basement , started taking on jobs in the

9:43

basement , scaled that that out and it's a 60

9:45

person company today that my dad now runs

9:47

with his siblings . So I knew what

9:49

it was going to take . That's why I was kind of like I

9:52

think the paper is going to be easier because

9:54

I knew what it took to start a business . Granted

9:56

, that's in manufacturing and like very high

9:58

precision manufacturing , not trash . So

10:01

the skills don't always translate

10:03

, but it's good to see the sacrifices

10:05

that it's going to take ahead of time , because you

10:07

kind of know what you're getting into . And

10:10

I think anybody can be an

10:12

entrepreneur . It just depends on the type

10:14

of entrepreneur you want to be . Some

10:16

people just use it as a side hustle

10:18

. Some people flip furniture . That's entrepreneurship

10:21

. I don't even call myself an entrepreneur

10:23

because I'm a guy with a recycling software

10:25

. I never wanted

10:28

to go out and say I wanted to own my own business . I

10:30

knew I wanted to do something that had purpose

10:33

and this just happened to align . I think

10:35

entrepreneurs very specifically say I never

10:37

want to work for somebody else and I want to go

10:39

out and build a business . So

10:42

you immediately think Shark Tank , investments

10:44

, profit margins , p&l . It doesn't

10:46

always have to be that . It can just be as simple

10:49

as hey , I run a dog walking business

10:51

. You just do your taxes . At the end of the day

10:53

you have some extra pocket change , you might go on an extra vacation

10:55

and that's perfectly acceptable

10:58

. I think we get caught up in this . Who's going to

11:00

be the next Amazon ? Amazon is like

11:02

a one in a million , one in a billion company

11:04

. That will ever happen . Most startups

11:06

are in the hey , I do it on the side

11:08

for some extra cash . A lot of startups

11:10

do fall in that field , and that is perfectly

11:13

acceptable .

11:15

Thanks for sharing that insight . A

11:17

lot of that is new knowledge to me , so that's

11:19

interesting . Okay

11:21

, so you mentioned in that

11:24

last answer you know that Scrap

11:26

is an app , but Scrap is so much more

11:28

than just an app . So can you actually elaborate on

11:31

what is Scrap and what does Scrap

11:33

do for people ?

11:34

Yeah , so we started as an app , hence

11:36

the name Scrap . We actually have the trademark

11:39

on that in the United States because

11:41

it's a pun . You don't

11:43

need to pass the bar , apparently , if you just have a really

11:45

good dad joke . It circumvents patent

11:48

law and trademark law because there's a double

11:50

entendre . Obviously there needs to be an

11:52

element of sophistication there . But that is my one

11:54

funny story of lawyers cry

11:56

laughing when I say I got the trademark

11:59

off of a dad joke . It actually did work

12:01

against the PTO . But

12:03

anyway , what we are is we

12:05

wanted to build . The original

12:07

mission was to build an ecosystem for waste , because

12:10

the waste industry is very bad at talking to one

12:12

another . It's gotten significantly

12:14

better since 2018 , which

12:16

2018 is kind of like think

12:19

of that as the waste industry's 2008

12:21

, where essentially material markets

12:23

went into the negative industries . 2008

12:26

, where essentially material markets went into the negative , where basically

12:28

, instead of selling recycled material , you

12:30

had to pay someone to take your recycled

12:32

material . So

12:35

somebody was getting paid to take the material and make it into a box , which is completely

12:37

opposite of how it normally runs . Because China said no to the world's waste . What

12:40

we wanted to do was make it so people could talk to

12:42

one another . In industry

12:44

fashion , people tend to get really jargony

12:46

really quick . We wanted to boil

12:49

things down to a very simple answer that anybody

12:51

could understand and you could talk on the same level

12:53

. Even though there's a bunch of sophistication

12:55

in the back end , we wanted things to be approachable

12:57

to anybody . There's

13:00

a platform now that's web-based , where

13:02

you can actually upload your hauler invoices

13:04

, your supplier information , all of your

13:06

procurement and even your product line and

13:09

the way you input the information . It'll basically

13:11

tell you the waste impacts of that , based on where

13:13

you distribute . It also looks

13:16

at your operations and really tells you a lot

13:18

about what

13:20

waste is being produced from different avenues

13:22

, what opportunities are to reduce that waste

13:25

, because we started as a recycling app but

13:27

we're pivoting . As you will hear

13:29

a lot . Every startup pivots

13:31

or changes , so it's not about the initial game plan , it's about what

13:34

you want to do and how you're going to get . There is going

13:36

to change . So we

13:38

basically said a lot of times it's

13:40

not about recycling , it's just about designing it out . Like

13:47

if you're buying plastic water bottles for your business , you don't need a better recycling

13:49

rate , you just need a reusable water bottle . That's it like . Sometimes things are way simpler , that

13:51

you don't need to recycle things , um , and

13:54

that's what this new platform is really set up to do

13:56

and what we've really pivoted to . We always

13:58

emphasize reuse , donating like

14:00

, if you have a broken oven or a broken fridge , we

14:03

always tell people like , like , hey , like , if it can be repaired

14:05

, bring it to a repair shop and they'll fix it and then

14:07

resell it . But if it's beyond repair , you

14:09

know it does have to go to a landfill or a transfer

14:11

station . So this whole new platform

14:13

is really dedicated to bringing

14:15

understanding to your waste through

14:17

data . So you can track everything

14:19

, you can manage your program better , you have better insights

14:22

and then you can optimize your program and ultimately

14:24

, design waste out of your systems . So

14:27

A to Z . And then where the app comes in

14:29

, the app's like , hey , I still exist . That's

14:31

the education terminal , where anybody can

14:34

use it . Anybody

14:38

in the community can use it , anybody at the company can use it and interface with

14:40

that high level data in a very synthesized , easy way . So that's kind of what we are

14:42

Think about like smart waste programs powered

14:44

by data . That's basically what it boils down to , but

14:47

there's a lot of nuance in the middle .

14:49

I didn't want to interrupt you , but kind of towards the beginning

14:51

it sounded like you said hauler information

14:54

. Can you just tell me what that means ?

14:56

Oh , a hauler is somebody who picks up your

14:58

trash , so the guy who comes around in the truck is

15:00

the person who picks it up , and they haul

15:02

it away . So they are the

15:04

hauler . That's how we differentiate

15:06

between , like , recycler and hauler . Hauler

15:09

is the person who picks it up , and sometimes they

15:11

are the recycler as well , when they own

15:13

the recycling facility , and

15:15

then from there the recycler

15:17

is the person who's actually sorting the material

15:20

and recycling it . So just

15:22

to like kind of go through what happens to your waste when you throw

15:24

it in the bin , because this might be useful later too , so

15:26

here's your new wrinkles in the brain for the

15:28

day . So when you throw like

15:30

, say , I have an aluminum can next to me , so let's

15:33

throw an aluminum can away , and assuming you

15:35

do not live in a bottle deposit state

15:37

where you can redeem this for five or

15:39

10 cents , so you throw this in your

15:41

curbside recycling bin or you bring it to your

15:43

drop-off site . From there a hauler

15:46

comes and picks up that bin full

15:48

of this material . They bring it then

15:50

to what is called a sortation facility , which

15:52

some sortation facilities are also recycling

15:55

facilities which is the step after , where

15:57

it can sort and recycle the material

15:59

at the same time . Otherwise it

16:01

sorts it into cardboard here , glass

16:03

here they do this with air eddy

16:05

currents . They have all different sophisticated

16:08

technology and now robot arms

16:10

that will actually pick items out . So

16:12

you can program the robot arms to say I only

16:14

want this can and

16:16

this can only , and it'll go great , got it , I can

16:18

identify that and do it . Ai

16:20

has changed the way we handle waste entirely

16:23

. Then from there , after

16:25

it's sorted , it goes to the respondent

16:27

recyclers , which are either plastic based

16:30

, uh , paper , glass

16:32

, metal . All of them are their own specialized facilities

16:34

and from there , at plastic facilities

16:37

. They get sorted again based on their resin

16:39

type , like you know one , two , three , four

16:41

, five , six , seven , and then also like their

16:43

value as material , because there's every

16:46

waste trades like a commodity , the same

16:48

way gold or silver does , but

16:50

it's obviously it's not as valuable

16:53

as gold and silver , so it's an ultra low

16:55

value commodity that trades on the market the same

16:57

way From there , once it's added

16:59

to recyclers , the recyclers turn it back into the

17:01

raw material that's now made with recycled content

17:04

and they send it out to packaging companies to make

17:06

it again . So they'll make the same can over and over

17:08

again . So a good

17:10

example why recycling is really important is

17:13

that this aluminum can , if you made it out of

17:15

virgin aluminum , you have to smelt

17:17

it from aluminum bauxite , the raw ore , which

17:19

has a smelting temperature . I think I'll

17:22

say 2400 degrees C . It's very

17:24

hot . But when it's out of that

17:26

form and you smelt it at , say , 600

17:29

degrees C or 800 degrees C I

17:32

might need a fact check on the numbers , a little bit on the temperature

17:34

but you save 95%

17:36

of the energy needed to do

17:38

the to make the can again by using recycled

17:40

content because it's already in a workable form

17:43

. That's why recycling is just

17:45

incredibly important . Also

17:47

, I apologize for the landline . I'm one of the few

17:49

people that still has a landline in their house

17:51

.

17:53

I was wondering what that was .

17:55

Yes , I am a fossil in my own

17:57

right as well , Okay

18:00

, so kind of where my mind just went .

18:02

Where is you

18:04

know ? You mentioned that China isn't taking our

18:06

trash anymore , so you

18:09

just described this process . So do

18:12

we have a system here in the US where everything

18:14

that we recycle is getting repurposed

18:17

, or where does it ? Does it go to a landfill if it's

18:19

not getting repurposed ?

18:27

best . So that entirely . So now I talked about commodities a little bit . That depends on

18:29

the commodity . We're not really shipping aluminum across . So

18:31

basically , after China said no , we said

18:33

, how about other developing

18:35

Asian nations ? They might take it , and that's why

18:37

you see it in Indonesia , vietnam . That

18:40

has slowly come to a stop . Some

18:43

companies have banned waste exports

18:45

, but it's still a struggling

18:47

field . What ends up happening is

18:50

now the higher value

18:52

commodities . I can speak for New England . We

18:54

ship a lot of our glass and waste to Ohio

18:56

because the tipping fee is lower . So

18:59

you actually put it on a train and ship the waste to

19:01

Ohio because the landfill fee is less . We're

19:03

due to run out of landfill space in the Northeast

19:06

United States by 2040 . And in 2050

19:08

, they're officially closed . Where they do save

19:10

some room for , like the more things that need to

19:12

be put in a landfill , so they're sequestered , like

19:15

so that's things like you

19:17

know , busted up furniture , things like that

19:19

. That's like , okay , we need this , actually

19:21

has to go to a landfill , can't be processed any other

19:23

way . Um , but to answer your

19:25

question , we don't send it to china

19:27

anymore because china passed something called national sword

19:30

, sword and shield . Shield prevented

19:32

it further and sword caused penalties . That

19:34

would be any trash coming in . So

19:36

long story short

19:38

not to china , not to indonesia

19:41

, not to vietnam anymore . Now it's

19:43

having to be processed domestically

19:45

or they're shipping it out in more

19:47

creative ways . But that does depend on

19:49

what the commodity is . The high value

19:51

stuff , I'm fairly confident it does

19:53

stay in the United States . It's the lower value

19:56

commodities that end up going to different countries

19:58

, because if it's valuable we'll do

20:00

it here and we're building the infrastructure

20:02

to handle things here .

20:04

Okay , interesting . Wow , you

20:07

are like a walking encyclopedia

20:09

, dictionary , wikipedia

20:11

page , all into one person . It is fascinating

20:14

.

20:14

Exactly All things trash and recycling

20:16

. It's super interesting and I always

20:18

tell people and we always joke in the industry

20:21

. Nobody thought they were going to end up in the

20:23

trash business or the solid waste business . We

20:25

just kind of get stuck here because every day is different

20:27

. Think about it If you're a brand

20:29

and you're trying to stick out on the shelf

20:32

, you might package yourself in a different or unique

20:34

way . We are called passive

20:36

receivers . We do not control the material

20:39

flow that comes in and I like to say

20:41

trash tells a story and it unites us all

20:43

because I can tell

20:45

what somebody's habits are by looking at their solid

20:47

waste bin . I can tell

20:49

if they've had a rough week , if there's five pints

20:51

of Ben and Jerry's in their trash bin , if

21:06

there's a great example . Mardi Gras completely changes the solid waste infrastructure

21:08

of New Orleans because you have beads everywhere , disposable cups , because you're not allowed to bring drinks

21:10

from different bars . All these different aspects and think about it . In 2004 , most of the way

21:12

stream was made up of newspaper and paper . Nobody

21:15

sent , nobody mails anything anymore . Nobody

21:18

reads the paper . The way stream has entirely

21:20

changed in 16

21:22

years because of email and digital

21:24

printing wow , wow

21:26

so you have to think of it in that

21:28

way of if it because you make

21:30

a design choice as a brand , we as an industry

21:33

have to come in and deal with it in an entirely new

21:35

and different fashion . And that's why

21:37

ai is so revolutionary , because we

21:39

can basically tell it hey , you might have heard

21:41

, colgate's toothpaste tubes are actually

21:43

like recyclable from a material perspective

21:45

. Barring this is the debate that , right

21:48

, you

21:54

could recycle a Colgate or a Tom's . You

21:56

can't recycle the tube from

21:58

your Home Depot like you're . Caulking or

22:01

other brands of toothpaste might not use that format

22:04

. So before AI , we couldn't tell

22:06

who's on the safe list for toothpaste

22:08

tubes and who's on the not safe list . And

22:11

if you have too much contamination coming in , you have

22:13

to junk every other recyclable commodity

22:15

. Oh wow . So

22:17

it's very complicated and very changing . There's a

22:19

lot of nuance , hence why scrap exists

22:21

to help navigate the complexities

22:23

of it .

22:24

Okay , I have another question that I'm now dying

22:27

to ask , so I have to ask it . I

22:30

feel like a lot of the packaging

22:32

that companies are now shipping

22:34

, whatever my products that I buy

22:36

in are now compostable

22:39

and I guess , like , what does

22:41

the industry think of like these compostable

22:45

? I want to say they almost feel like plastic

22:47

material , but you know it says compostable on it

22:49

, but like it's almost

22:51

like a envelope kind of shape

22:54

, like are those actually helping ?

22:57

So that that comes down to it depends

22:59

you really need to pull the material certification

23:02

for things like this Paper

23:05

. I know there's a company called , I believe they're Ecovative

23:07

. They do mushroom packaging perfectly

23:09

home compostable . There are other people that

23:12

make styrofoam replacements

23:14

out of . I always called it chitin until

23:16

somebody corrected me . I also called quinoa quinoa

23:19

for four years and nobody corrected me . It's

23:21

chitin . By the way , there's a protein

23:24

in crustacean shells that's waste from

23:26

seafood that you can actually turn it into a styrofoam

23:28

or a foam substitute . So

23:30

there are innovations like that

23:32

that , yes , they are helping because you're substituting

23:35

polystyrene and PVC , which

23:37

are the two more toxic plastics that

23:39

contaminate other plastic recyclables

23:41

. That makes it so you can't even recycle a bottle

23:43

if it's mixed in with polystyrene in any

23:46

capacity . But

23:48

basically , yes , compostable packaging is

23:50

helping . But people that are just making

23:53

bioplastics and putting a biodegradable

23:55

enzyme in them so you just get microplastics faster

23:57

, that is not helping . So

24:01

it really depends on the supplier that they have whether it's going to help or not

24:03

. And then also a lot of the times they're certified for an

24:05

industrial compostable setting . So there's

24:07

, home compostable and industrially compostable

24:09

Home is like you can throw it in your backyard

24:11

and you're good . That's the gold

24:14

standard and that's what we should do , and , again

24:16

, pending that , material certification . The

24:18

second is industrial , which basically

24:20

means you need an industrial facility of the same

24:22

scale as the ones that

24:25

recycle the other materials , so it

24:27

has to be picked up , hauled and brought to a

24:29

spot that can process material in that

24:31

large of quantities and either anaerobically

24:33

digest it or whatever capacity it would

24:36

process it . So it's not really helping

24:38

because you basically removed fossil-based plastic

24:40

and put in bioplastics that have to be handled

24:42

the same way and can still produce microplastics

24:45

. So those ones are much more contentious

24:48

. And this is why , like we have compostable

24:50

tableware and like forks and spoons

24:52

, they're industrially compostable , because if they

24:54

were home compostable , you'd put them in your soup and you'd

24:56

pick up your spoon and there'd be no spoon .

24:58

Right . So am I a horrible

25:00

person ? If you know , I only

25:03

have home compost . I don't have industrial

25:05

compost . I guess technically

25:08

I could have it , but there's not many things

25:10

that are that I can't compost at home

25:12

, so I don't see the purpose of having industrial

25:14

compost . So if I'm putting those compostable

25:17

packaging into my trash

25:19

and it goes to the landfill like , is

25:21

that the worst thing in the world or is that okay ?

25:24

No , it's not the worst thing in the world . It's no different than

25:26

putting something in a landfill anyway . So when

25:28

fills are notoriously not inert

25:30

because they the capping

25:32

technology has gotten a lot better but

25:35

it can

25:37

leach into a water table like these are things they're resolving

25:39

. Now . It's not nearly as common as it used

25:41

to be . It's landfills built in like the early 1900s

25:44

or 1940s , before they had the technology to make

25:46

the liners very sophisticated , um

25:49

, but landfills are largely like

25:51

I'm going to use the term inert very loosely

25:53

, but basically somebody cut open a landfill

25:55

that was capped in 1945

25:57

, peeled back the cap and

26:00

you saw the newspaper talking about

26:02

the end of World War II , perfectly

26:05

intact . Wow so things don't degrade

26:07

in a landfill . They do produce methane

26:09

, which that methane

26:11

actually moves around , to which parts of the landfill are bioactive

26:13

. But by and large

26:16

, landfills are actually due to get mined

26:18

in the next 10 years . Fun

26:20

fact about this is you know why we call it a tin

26:23

can ?

26:24

No .

26:25

Because it used to be made entirely of tin , which

26:27

is a precious metal , with electronics because it's

26:29

used for soldering . So we were making

26:31

the cans for your beans out

26:33

of highly precious metals because we didn't

26:35

know what value it had . And there were things

26:37

we threw away , like copper , brass , things

26:39

that were very precious earth metals , and catalytic

26:42

converters which contain platinum

26:44

and , I think , palladium as well , both

26:46

incredibly expensive metals . People

26:49

are now contemplating cutting open old landfills

26:51

and mining the material out to

26:53

process and recycle it and recapture it

26:55

. So landfills like you're not a bad person

26:58

for putting something in a landfill , I

27:00

always like to tell people cut out what you can

27:02

. This isn't about people living

27:04

in tree houses , living off of nuts and berries . This

27:06

is not what sustainability is meant to be . It's

27:09

about doing marginally better at the things that you

27:11

can . I still eat meat . I tried

27:13

being a vegan , but I have dietary restrictions that

27:15

make it impossible for me to not eat meat

27:17

. Being a vegan , but I have dietary restrictions that make

27:19

it impossible for me to not eat meat . It's

27:24

very difficult , but I don't drive because I work remote , so I only put 2,000 miles a

27:26

year on my car . That's a win . I take a shorter shower . I don't

27:28

take a 45-minute shower and drain

27:30

the entire reservoir . In town , I plant

27:34

native cover crops for my lawn instead

27:36

of Kentucky bluegrass . This

27:39

is what we're talking about . The same thing is true with waste . Do

27:41

you really need it , yes or

27:43

no ? If the answer is no , just don't buy

27:46

it and the waste problem is solved

27:48

, because waste is when things are not used . And

27:51

so that's where , like , don't feel bad about putting something

27:53

in a landfill , feel bad when you buy a

27:55

ton of food , don't eat it and throw it away . That's

27:57

what's bad . That's the behavior that needs to change

28:00

. Everything can't be on demand all the

28:02

time .

28:02

Fascinating , okay , wow .

28:04

And it's just as much behavioral psychology

28:07

as this is a technology issue . It's behavioral

28:09

change which is arguably harder than

28:12

technology change , and that's what we do a lot

28:14

at . Scrap is like looking

28:18

at the behavior of waste , like I did a waste audit where I audited a family's plastic consumption

28:20

for a year , so I knew how

28:23

many times he gave his daughter juice , what

28:25

their morning routines were all of these different

28:27

things . By looking at the waste data and

28:29

going if you change this habit

28:31

, this much waste will drop .

28:35

Is that something that you really

28:37

do ? Often you

28:39

audit individual families to help them improve

28:41

.

28:42

That is more of a rare case , but we do audit

28:44

individual offices , so it's

28:47

the same feel Basically

28:49

. My friend is a brand designer and he did

28:51

this study because he just felt icky about plastic

28:53

and he actually saved all the plastic for a year . So

28:55

it's all in his office just stacked and

28:57

actually saved all the plastic for a year . So it's all in

28:59

his office , just stacked . And it's about making

29:02

people realize we were in a throwaway society for so long that

29:04

the whole idea is to confront people

29:07

about the waste that they have , because once it's out of

29:09

sight , it's out of mind and there really is no way

29:11

. And when you realize that

29:13

and this is why there's such a huge interest in recycling

29:15

right now is because we live in a consumption

29:17

economy where the biggest

29:19

metric of success in the United States is gross

29:22

domestic product . If you produced more

29:24

, it is fundamentally a good thing , and

29:26

this gets challenged when you put it through . This

29:28

is kind of an unfair test . But according

29:31

to the American economy , children with cancer

29:33

is a good thing because their treatment is very expensive

29:36

and generates more income and more gross domestic

29:38

product for the country . But everybody would

29:40

unanimously agree a child with cancer is a

29:42

very bad thing . So

29:44

this is the mismatch and this is why B Corps is so important

29:47

is you're not aligning yourself with infinite growth

29:49

as the

29:51

metric of success . It's about better outcomes

29:53

for all stakeholders and shareholders at the same

29:55

time , and that's why we chose to go

29:57

the B Corp route . But this is very true

30:00

of fast-moving consumer goods . These

30:02

companies don't measure their success on

30:04

how happy their drink made somebody . They

30:07

measure it on how many drinks , how many products

30:09

were sold when you're fundamentally confronted with

30:11

the waste associated with that product and you're not

30:13

comfortable with the waste being

30:15

produced . If that product didn't really

30:17

mean that much to you in the first place , you will no

30:19

longer buy it . So this is why

30:22

companies are really owning the recycling

30:24

narrative , or they're really trying to is

30:26

because it gets very , very challenging to

30:28

convince someone to consume mindlessly when they're

30:31

faced with the consequences of their consumption . And

30:33

that's a very meta analysis I appreciate

30:35

. But basically we've reached a point where people

30:37

are starting to realize they can't buy things

30:39

forever and have everything they want forever

30:42

and have it be sustainable . And

30:44

now companies are really trying

30:46

to take that over and really understand

30:48

and some with very good intentions as well . This isn't

30:50

like good versus evil in any sense of the word , to

30:53

really understand . How

30:55

can we make it so people can consume comfortably

30:57

, which I'm in the camp of just

31:00

buy what you need and then just be happy

31:02

with less ? Not everybody is of that

31:04

opinion .

31:05

Yeah , yeah , okay

31:08

, mikey

31:11

, you have shared so much with us , so thank you for

31:13

that . Of course , I'm

31:15

going to , you know , change

31:17

the topic slightly , although B Corp has come

31:19

up quite a bit for us already , but you

31:21

know you recently announced on LinkedIn

31:24

that Scrap became a B Corp , so congratulations

31:26

for that . That's pretty exciting , thank

31:33

you . Thank you , so go LinkedIn . I

31:37

would love to dive a little bit more into your story

31:39

and understand , like , what motivated Scrap

31:41

to pursue B Corp certification and

31:44

I believe that you actually started your

31:46

journey through the B Impact Clinic at UNH

31:49

, which you kind of already touched upon . But

31:51

can you share , maybe

31:53

, what it was like working with the students and then what it looked

31:56

like after you went out of the clinic

31:58

and pursued B Corp certification

32:00

?

32:00

Yes , the B Impact Clinic was awesome

32:03

. So , as a startup , I wear many hats and

32:05

one of them is I'm the chief sustainability officer

32:07

at Scrap . That's my primary

32:10

function . I'm also , if you couldn't tell

32:12

, at this point , I am our subject matter expertise

32:14

on recycling and solid waste in general

32:16

. So with that

32:18

I'm

32:20

very busy . I am responsible for three

32:23

countries recycling guidance US , canada

32:25

and UK and I do it at the municipal level

32:27

, so that is 27,500

32:30

municipalities and I am responsible

32:32

for that every year . So when

32:34

it comes to sustainability reporting , I'm like can

32:37

I just have the bee symbol , because this

32:39

app is free , that people can use ? Like is that

32:41

enough ? And Bee Lab is like well , you need to

32:43

document things , which is fair . I'm glad they

32:45

do that . So in comes the Bee Impact

32:48

Clinic , where the people who help

32:50

us were incredible . We trained student mentors

32:52

actual mentors and

32:54

then our student volunteers . That really just hunkered

32:56

down . We were lucky because of the

32:58

work that we do . We started at like a 68

33:01

and we needed the 17 points to make

33:03

up and a lot of that was the handbook

33:05

, and then we actually signed the legally binding

33:07

amendment to say , like we

33:09

have not only a fiduciary duty but

33:12

a societal and environmental duty at the same

33:14

time , which really passed

33:16

with little to no friction because we've been very honest and transparent about the mission . The same

33:18

time , which really passed with little to no friction because we've been very honest and transparent about the mission

33:20

the whole time . Like we've turned down very

33:22

like lucrative contracts because it was a conflict

33:24

of interest with , like ethics . Um

33:27

. So we were already pretty

33:29

on brand . We attracted the right people

33:31

where , if you're genuinely

33:33

interested , if you're doing b lab for

33:35

a marketing exercise , you're

33:37

going to have a harder time than if you're doing it for something

33:39

that's foundational and you're actually trying to do it . And

33:41

this is very true of recycling as well . If you're trying to

33:43

market that you're recyclable , you're

33:46

already going about it backwards . You should just let the product

33:48

speak for itself and that is the best marketing

33:50

possible . So our experience with UNH and

33:52

the B-Impact Clinic was awesome because we came

33:54

in mission-focused and

34:03

our volunteers were really passionate all the same and they were incredibly helpful in getting

34:05

things through the door and that's how we passed .

34:06

I think we had a score of 94.3 at the end

34:08

of it . So now that you are B Corp certified and you know there's

34:10

the local community here in New Hampshire , there's

34:13

the global community , there's I

34:16

mean , there's just the recycling

34:18

industry that other B Corps might be involved

34:20

in . I guess , like what's the most exciting

34:22

part about like now that you are

34:24

a certified B Corp , like what's

34:27

next in relationship to the community

34:29

and the certification for you all .

34:32

Yeah , I mean . What's next for

34:34

us is we want to connect with other brands

34:36

that are in the B Corp movement

34:38

, ultimately

34:43

because we

34:45

feel like there's a lot of alignment , a lot of people want to

34:47

do the right thing with their products , but it's very scary

34:49

, especially from a brand reputation standpoint

34:51

. It's a risk

34:53

issue when you don't know where your

34:55

product ends up entirely issue

34:59

when you don't know where your product ends up entirely and you know . With

35:01

the new ftc green guides , revisions , which are a myriad of , personally

35:03

, I think they're very relaxed . Considering septum

35:05

matter expertise , which basically , as long as it is

35:07

recyclable , in 60 of communities , you

35:09

can just say it's recyclable , which that's

35:12

a very low bar to clear , in my opinion

35:14

, relative to when aerospace components , if

35:16

I said your plane landed 60 at the time

35:19

I did my job , that would

35:21

quite literally not fly like

35:23

that just wouldn't work . Yeah , um . So

35:25

we really want to connect

35:27

with people and we always . I

35:30

know I've I I don't want to say I've become out of touch

35:32

, but because of my subject matter expertise I'm

35:35

certainly at a certain

35:37

level with recycling where I might

35:39

lose sight of what the average person is thinking

35:41

of , where that doesn't spend their day

35:43

just rummaging through trash for fun , where

35:46

I want to really understand what

35:48

are those questions that people have . How can we help

35:50

? Where can we meet people in the middle , how can

35:52

we educate and how can we feel

35:54

we felt there wasn't a lot of talk

35:56

about recycling in the B Corp community

35:59

, which is , it's , an afterthought

36:01

. You're running a business . A lot of B Corps are small

36:03

businesses that you know . You're wearing a million hats

36:05

. You shouldn't have to think about trash . You should

36:07

just trust that your hauler is going to take care of it for you in the right

36:10

way . And we wanted to really bring that conversation

36:12

to the community , talking about waste

36:14

issues , what they imply , because waste issues

36:17

are an environmental justice issue as

36:19

well . So if there's anybody from the B Corp

36:21

community listening and they just have recycling questions

36:23

, if you could not tell by this point , I am very

36:25

happy to answer recycling questions and

36:28

composting questions and waste questions and what

36:30

it means for society . Because , I

36:32

know everybody thinks like , oh , as

36:34

long as it's not in a landfill , it's fine . Things

36:36

like litter actually impact community health

36:38

, not from just like an actual biological

36:41

health standpoint . But there are

36:43

certain instances where you can reduce crime

36:45

by upwards of 40% by just keeping a

36:47

neighborhood clean , because drug dealers feel very

36:49

uncomfortable by keeping a neighborhood

36:51

clean and that is a different societal motivator

36:54

. I do actually this fun comparison

36:56

in some lectures between how Philly deals

36:58

with recycling versus how my hometown of

37:00

Burlington , massachusetts , does , because Burlington

37:03

has tripled the household income of

37:05

Philly and about

37:08

30% of the primary . So

37:10

we recycle , so we feel good about all the things that

37:12

we buy , so it justifies

37:14

the expense that we paid and we're like , oh , we're doing the right

37:16

thing for the environment . People in Philly

37:18

recycle and this is a story from my

37:20

friend who's a hauler in Philly . They

37:23

don't care about the environment , they're struggling to

37:25

survive and make ends meet in their households . If

37:27

you tell them keeping the neighborhood clean keeps

37:29

drugs away from their children , they will

37:31

do it . And that's not saying Philly's a developing

37:33

nation with a crime issue . That is not the point whatsoever

37:36

. But the societal and community

37:38

motivators are entirely different

37:40

relative to where you are

37:42

. And that's something people don't

37:44

realize that waste is a societal issue

37:47

, not necessarily an environmental

37:49

issue . But we tend to miss that . And

37:51

it's an economic issue too , because improper

37:53

disposal leads to health hazards quite

37:55

frequently .

37:56

Right , wow , okay

37:58

. So I feel like you kind of have already talked about

38:00

, like you know

38:02

, some of the struggles of

38:04

the industry , but I guess I want to

38:06

ask you now , like let's think about

38:09

the future and like the hopes of the

38:11

future , I'm wondering , like where

38:13

do you see the concept of circular

38:15

economy evolving in the next few years

38:17

, and like what's the specific

38:20

role that you envision that scrap can play in

38:22

that transformation ?

38:24

Yeah . So I think the circular

38:26

economy , so circularity

38:29

has , you know , sustainability turned into a greenwashing

38:31

buzzword , yeah , and so , like

38:34

I always tell people about this , I have to put

38:36

up the definition of sustainability on the whiteboard

38:38

. And what is sustainable ? I said this is a

38:40

failure of the English language , because you can

38:42

use it in the tense like something

38:45

that emits nine kilograms of CO2

38:47

is more sustainable than

38:49

what emits 10 kilograms of CO2

38:53

. Neither are sustainable because

38:55

they emit nine or 10 grams of CO2.

38:57

, but because of the way the English language

38:59

works , you can say , oh , this is sustainable relative

39:02

to the other , and that's where the

39:04

fault is , where it's like you can't get a marketer on

39:06

that because , like , they're technically using

39:08

the word correctly . So

39:13

that's how I kind of start , because the solid waste industry is like we're being sustainable . I'm

39:15

like not really , you're processing trash and putting it in a hole in the ground , like

39:17

sometimes , and they're also recycling and there's other

39:19

aspects too , like it's

39:21

far more complicated . And so when

39:23

we talk about the industry , like where we've been

39:25

before and I'll get to the circular economy

39:27

piece after is that you basically

39:30

told an entire generation study and stay in

39:32

school , you're going to be a trash man , but they forgot to tell you

39:34

the guy who drives the truck makes more than the school

39:36

superintendent . Oh , it's a

39:38

very trash . People aren't

39:40

poor . Like it's not a poor person's job , it's

39:42

a very like dignified job with good hours

39:44

and you make good money . And that's truck drivers

39:47

. There are resource managers , there are professional engineers

39:49

this

39:54

is an entire space where the average age was like 56 years old . So I came in

39:56

at 21 like hi , does anybody want to teach me

39:58

about trash ? And I had mentors come out of the woodwork like

40:00

we need someone to pass this knowledge down to . So

40:02

, if you're looking for a change of pace , there are people hiring

40:05

for solid waste stuff , and

40:07

this is what's been amazing about AI is

40:10

you have a bunch of people that were never college

40:12

educated . Now , granted , there are very

40:14

highly educated people in the solid waste space

40:16

, but the industry as a whole , when you talk

40:18

about the blue-collar guys that are working

40:20

the floor in a very manual , labor-intensive

40:23

field , relative to the white-collar

40:25

guys running the facility , business decisions

40:27

, etc . And some of those white-collar people

40:29

worked their way up and never needed the degree

40:32

when you talk artificial intelligence , sops

40:35

, these kinds of things , they're not

40:37

necessarily first nature . They're

40:39

not going to take a consultant's approach because

40:41

they're just going to get the job done , and I like that about

40:43

the industry . They very much roll up the sleeves and just do

40:46

it , no

40:51

sense standing around and talking about it . So you have an aging industry of a very different

40:53

skill set . Now a new age of industry coming in with a very different skill set

40:55

as well . Especially where solid

40:58

waste used to be like the contents being

41:00

thrown out , not the packaging , now

41:03

packaging dominates that waste stream and

41:05

where there's a policy coming out called an epr

41:07

extended producer responsibility which

41:09

has existed for years , but it's only

41:12

existed for things like smoke detectors , where

41:14

, because of the mercury in a smoke

41:16

detector , it has to go to hazardous waste in

41:19

the smoke detector company . In the mattress

41:21

company as well because mattresses are have

41:23

an epr fee on them as well because they can't

41:25

go into landfill you have to pay a special

41:27

fee at the purchase to

41:30

fund the collection of that item . This

41:32

is now becoming true of every

41:34

single item on the shelf , the way

41:37

it's packaged uh , cardboard

41:39

box , bottle , electronics , all

41:41

of it . You have to pay now a tax on top

41:43

of that to fund the collection

41:45

of the item later down the line . So now

41:47

the waste industry . The narrative

41:49

is now being dominated by brands that want to take

41:51

accountability for their products . Before

41:54

, waste was this amorphous blob

41:56

. Now it's specifically the

41:58

Coca-Cola can in the stream , the Colgate

42:00

toothpaste tube in the stream , even

42:04

Aunt May's local honey syrup

42:06

in the stream . All of these things

42:08

are now individually identified

42:10

at

42:13

a product specific level

42:15

, not this gigantic bubble

42:17

of waste as a whole where it's like

42:19

can

42:25

we recycle it ? What can we do ? What can we do with this item ? So I think

42:28

the circularity like narrative , I think that's being a bit misused

42:30

at the current moment because we're not at

42:32

what we call bottle to bottle recycling

42:34

yet , which a lot of commodities that

42:36

are recycled are downcycled , which

42:38

means I'll take plastic

42:41

bags , like great example . Plastic film bags

42:43

are usually shredded and then turned into Trex decking

42:45

. So like great , we recycled

42:48

it , we made something useful out of it . But how much decking

42:50

and park benches do we really need ? We

42:52

kind of need to be back in the bags . So

42:55

there's a lot . I could talk for like 10 minutes about

42:57

material loss and that recycling isn't 100%

42:59

in , 100% out . Great

43:01

example you got a PET bottle like

43:03

your drink bottle only about 83%

43:06

of that material . When you recycle , that bottle comes

43:08

back out as usable . The rest is lost to

43:11

the machinery or lost due to like , not

43:13

useful , etc . And this is true of paper

43:15

and aluminum as well . You do have some loss . So

43:17

we're talking about circularity

43:20

as a buzzword when we're really not there yet

43:22

. And I what concerns me is that

43:24

we're kind of setting ourselves up

43:26

to over promise and under deliver , like

43:29

every single large company that had zero

43:31

waste goals for 2025 has

43:33

kicked them to 2030 or 2040

43:36

. So it's like how are you going to get

43:38

consumer or everyday person buy-in

43:40

when you're not holding yourself accountable

43:43

to your policies and , to be fair , some

43:45

of them had very good explanations as to

43:47

why they did . I'm not saying it was malicious

43:49

, but when you're setting yourself up to fail

43:52

and people just saw this waste

43:54

pile up in the ocean , you're going

43:56

to create very difficult engagement barriers

43:58

around the circular economy . So I'm hoping

44:00

in the future it becomes

44:02

a societal benefit , but I think

44:04

right now it's a corporate marketing

44:07

exercise which I would like it to transition

44:09

much more forward to the sustainable

44:11

future for everybody .

44:15

So how's Scrap going to help do

44:17

that ?

44:18

Basically , we track everything and

44:20

we measure everything , and if you're going

44:22

to do sustainability or circular economies

44:24

right , you need

44:26

the data to back it up to do it right , and

44:29

that's what we specialize in . We basically are

44:31

your accountant for waste . So when

44:33

you think about it , taxes are coming due for

44:35

trash you scrap . We

44:37

are your QuickBooks for trash . That is essentially

44:40

how it works . Um , so we can track

44:42

, like , if you set up custom recycling programs in

44:44

your office , we actually program your bins in so

44:46

we know which items are moving where and why , so

44:49

we actually see the flow of waste , or

44:51

the waste stream as we call it yeah so

44:53

we can see what's going up , what needs to be designed out upstream

44:56

, what's going out of the building downstream

44:58

, what's in the waste stream through the building

45:00

, and really we're bringing that expertise

45:02

and that knowledge throughout to really

45:04

understand what is going on in your building

45:07

or your town or your household .

45:09

Yeah , yeah . I'm wondering are there

45:11

any like case studies that you could talk

45:13

about ? Like , are there any projects that you've

45:16

maybe recently worked on or any upcoming projects

45:19

that you're excited about

45:21

that you could share with our listeners ?

45:23

Yeah . So I think the big thing is

45:25

we actually just launched with Avon Cosmetics for

45:27

their top 100 products . They

45:29

have over 10,000 products , so before they took

45:32

on something of organizing all that data , we

45:34

went ahead and just said why don't we do the first

45:37

100 ? And so across the UK they're

45:39

having their reps use the app and teach people

45:41

about what they can do in their community with the product

45:43

. Because we do location and product-specific

45:46

recycling guidance . That's our specialty

45:48

, so that's a huge project we're

45:50

excited about . We just concluded

45:52

our trial at Heathrow Airport . We got mixed

45:54

results . What we found out is if you're going to

45:57

put out hardware , assume people are going

45:59

to borderline . Take a sledgehammer to it . People

46:01

are very rough with hardware , especially in a terminal

46:04

that has millions of people coming through it all the time

46:06

. Yeah , but

46:08

we got some really great insights around consumer

46:10

behavior with waste , where a lot of people do actually

46:13

want to do the right thing there's

46:16

just a knowledge gap , and when you shrink that knowledge gap , people become

46:18

better at doing things . So that was

46:20

a really great insight as well .

46:22

When you say hardware like , what did that

46:24

hardware look like ?

46:26

So we have a policy that we don't want

46:28

to make more waste trying to solve the problem

46:30

. So you might see , there are companies

46:32

that do smart bins which , like they have the big TV

46:34

screen and then like as a camera and it's like

46:36

oh , this goes here . I don't necessarily

46:39

think that the solution to the solid waste problem is

46:41

a giant TV screen over every trash bin

46:43

. To me that just sounds a little bit

46:45

counterintuitive , which I

46:47

could be wrong , because consumer engagement is very

46:50

important in this type of thing and

46:53

there are some instances where that is an appropriate solution

46:55

, especially around education , where

46:57

we designed a

47:00

station out of used

47:02

samsung tablets so

47:04

we could basically build a recycling

47:06

station out of off-the-shelf hardware

47:08

, smack it together very low cost

47:11

, so anybody could have access to a smart bin

47:13

, and so the hardware

47:15

was like we had charging cables plugged

47:17

in uh to the tablets and stuff like that

47:19

. Where someone wants to charge their phone

47:21

, they'll just take the charger out of the tablet

47:23

, like . Like it was silly things like that

47:25

We've never had an . We've rolled out in like over nine

47:28

offices and the offices have done really , really well

47:30

and we've had no downtime . It's just , we've

47:32

never carried it to a terminal that big

47:34

where people will do things you would never expect

47:36

.

47:37

Yeah , okay , all right , I can

47:39

see how that happened , yeah .

47:40

Cool . Yes , so like works very well

47:42

in an office . Doing it at

47:44

an airport . There are different expectations

47:47

of a facility of that magnitude

47:49

. Yeah

48:02

, how people it's like the the amount of resources that people feel that they need and have when

48:04

they're in an airport is not normal consumer behavior . Exactly , everybody's

48:06

in a rush , so basically , an airport just brings

48:08

out the worst at everybody .

48:10

It really does .

48:11

In a rush , you're sitting in a line , you're

48:13

getting frisked by TSA

48:15

or whatever organization is there

48:17

.

48:19

You're on somebody else's timetable . You

48:21

have no control over your own

48:24

timing .

48:25

Right when everybody's basically just to the point like

48:27

F it , I'm just throwing this wherever . That is a

48:29

very difficult behavioral environment to get

48:31

the change . Yeah , but versus

48:33

if someone's in the comfort of their own home and , like I , got a few

48:35

seconds , let me scan this and figure it out . And that's why

48:37

we've always taken the approach . We never

48:39

want to reward a ton of scanning

48:42

, like that's not really the purpose of

48:44

the app . Our purpose is to say we

48:46

taught you what happens with this once . If

48:49

you need ever need to check again , you are welcome to , and

48:52

then you now know . So you know you

48:54

can do whatever you need to do . Like it's

48:56

kind of we took the hinge model and said designed

48:58

to be deleted , that space

49:01

scrap is meant to do , but for trash , not

49:03

for dating .

49:04

Yeah , yeah , yeah , cool .

49:06

Unless you are very into trash in that way , which

49:08

I can comfortably say I am not . But

49:10

to each their own .

49:11

Yeah , yeah , oh

49:13

wow , Mikey , you shared so

49:16

much with us and our listeners

49:18

and me and my

49:21

brain is like at max capacity

49:24

. I can't learn anything else today . I possibly can't

49:26

because I just learned so much from you . So

49:28

thank you so much for taking the time

49:30

to educate myself and our listeners

49:32

and to . You know , share everything

49:35

from starting a company to learning

49:37

a brand new industry and just getting thrown in . I love

49:39

that .

49:40

Thank you . I appreciate you having me on

49:42

and , like I said , if anybody has any questions

49:44

, just reach out . I'm

49:47

not going to start the clock and say it's billable

49:49

hours , I just like to help people and answer

49:51

their questions . I don't think anybody should be gatekeeped

49:53

from an education , which is why you

49:56

know what Scrap does now . We're really good

49:58

at trash and recycling . So if you need our help

50:00

, call us , but if you just want to learn something

50:02

, just ask . Because my crowning

50:04

achievement was I taught a class

50:07

at phillips , exeter , and one

50:09

girl showed up and it was an hour . Class

50:11

hour came by . Over

50:13

70 percent of the students still chose to stay

50:16

and I just kept answering questions . It

50:18

was an . It was 40 minutes over at that point

50:20

and one student goes . I'm sorry I have to go , but

50:22

like this was like really , really interesting . I

50:24

meant to come to my sister's final project but

50:26

I sat in the wrong room and it took about 10 minutes

50:28

for me to realize . But this seemed more interesting anyway

50:30

, so I decided to stay . So if

50:33

you're very good at presenting and you're very engaging

50:35

, trash even beats family , apparently

50:37

. So I don't know if it's a good

50:39

life lesson , but I am more than happy to

50:41

talk the spots off of Dalmatian when it comes to waste

50:44

and make sure everybody is able to make the right

50:46

decisions for themselves or their organizations

50:48

.

50:50

And I will put all of Mikey's information in the

50:52

show notes so that people can reach out to you . But

50:55

seriously , thank you so , so much

50:58

. Welcome to the B Corp community and I

51:00

cannot wait to see what you do now that you

51:02

are an active member .

51:04

Thank you . I'm looking forward to sinking

51:06

my teeth and really diving into the B Corp

51:08

movement . It's been a long time coming

51:10

and we're really excited to be a part of it .

51:20

Thank you for joining us on Responsibly Different

51:22

a Campfire Consulting Initiative . We

51:24

hope today's conversation has sparked new ideas

51:27

and inspired action towards purposeful

51:29

leadership and sustainable choices For

51:31

insights and strategies that elevate your brand

51:34

story in a meaningful way . Visit us

51:36

at campfireconsulting

51:38

. Don't forget to subscribe , rate

51:40

and share , as every interaction helps

51:43

spread the warmth of responsible living . Until

51:45

next time , keep the fire of curiosity alive

51:48

and embrace the power of being

51:50

responsibly different .

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