With professional rugby now 25 years old, Chris Jones and Matt Dawson join Sonja McLaughlan to reflect on how the game has changed and the challenges that lie ahead. World Rugby boss Brett Gosper outlines his vision for the game, and RFU chief executive Bill Sweeney tells the pod he wants rugby to be competing with football in the next 25 years. Former England fly-half Rob Andrew and Matt reminisce about the amateur game and balancing a full-time job while playing. Plus, there is a look at player welfare with Harlequins flanker Jack Clifford after he was forced to retire at 27.