0:03

Welcome to Satisfaction Factor , the podcast

0:06

where we explore how ditching diet culture

0:08

makes our whole lives more satisfying

0:10

. Welcome

0:20

back to Satisfaction Factor . I'm Naomi

0:22

Katz , an intuitive eating and body image coach

0:24

.

0:25

I'm Sadie Simpson , a intuitive eating and body image coach

0:27

. I'm

0:30

Sadie Simpson , a group fitness instructor and personal trainer . Before we dig into this week's

0:32

episode , just a reminder . If you would like to support the show , we

0:34

have merch . We have a handful of designs we'll keep public

0:36

that can be printed as stickers , t-shirts

0:38

, sweatshirts , mugs , tote bags and whatever

0:40

else you like . T-shirts and sweatshirts

0:42

come into sizes up to 5X and you can

0:44

check that out at the link in our show notes

0:47

.

0:48

Also just a reminder that if you're looking

0:50

for some support in your intuitive eating

0:53

and anti-diet work , I've got availability

0:55

for all of my coaching options . I've

0:57

got spots available for one-on-one

1:00

intuitive eating and anti-diet coaching

1:02

. I have spots available for my

1:04

individual pay what you can calls

1:07

mindset reset calls , and

1:09

the wait list is also open for the next

1:11

cohort of my group coaching

1:14

program , Nourish and Bloom , and

1:16

you can get all of the information about

1:18

all of those options on my website

1:20

, happyshapesco .

1:22

Today we're talking to Dr Lisa Folden

1:25

about weight-neutral approaches to joint

1:27

pain , mobility and other physical

1:29

health issues . Dr Lisa

1:31

Ann Folden is a North Carolina licensed

1:33

physical therapist , nasm certified

1:36

behavior change specialist and anti-diet

1:38

, health and body image coach . She

1:41

owns Healthy Fit Physical Therapy and Wellness

1:43

Consultants in Charlotte , north Carolina , where

1:45

she provides trauma-informed and weight-inclusive

1:48

care to clients in diverse bodies

1:50

and those in eating disorder recovery

1:52

. As a health-at-every-size ambassador

1:54

and movement expert , dr Fulton

1:57

assists clients seeking healthier lifestyles

1:59

. Her weight-neutral approach encourages

2:01

intuitive eating , joyful movement , body

2:04

acceptance and breaking up with toxic diet

2:06

culture . Dr Lisa is a mom

2:08

of three , published author and speaker whose

2:10

goal is to see as many people as possible

2:12

living their best lives without worrying about

2:14

their weight .

2:15

And we are so excited to talk

2:18

to Lisa , because this is a topic that we've

2:20

been wanting to cover for the entire

2:22

time that we've been doing this podcast

2:24

, which is three years

2:26

now , and

2:28

Lisa is specifically who we've

2:30

wanted to invite to talk with us about it . And

2:35

we got it in just in time

2:37

, because our

2:39

next episode , on October 2nd

2:41

, will be both our 100th

2:43

episode and our last

2:45

episode .

2:47

Ah , cue like the sound effect

2:49

music here .

2:52

We have a lot of thoughts and feelings about this and we are

2:54

going to be sharing all of them with you then

2:56

, so be sure to tune in on

2:59

October 2nd for our 100th

3:01

episode , our third anniversary

3:03

and our goodbye episode

3:05

. But for now , let's

3:07

talk to Lisa . Welcome , lisa

3:10

. Thank you so much for being here with us today

3:12

. We are so excited to be getting to talk to you

3:14

.

3:14

Thank you for having me . I'm very excited

3:16

to have this conversation also .

3:19

We are somewhat

3:22

local , like we're all in North Carolina

3:24

and we have been wanting

3:26

to invite you on the pod for a while , so we're like

3:28

very excited that you're finally here .

3:31

Same same same . What part of North Carolina are

3:33

y'all in ? We're in Asheville

3:35

. Okay , that's right . I remember that I

3:38

love Asheville . Yeah , so not too far yeah

3:40

.

3:41

Not too far at all . Okay

3:43

, so we're going to start with the first question that we ask

3:46

everybody . Can you tell us

3:48

a little bit about your experience

3:50

with diet culture and maybe

3:52

how that's led you to the work that you

3:54

do today ?

3:55

Yeah , it's a loaded question , but absolutely

3:58

, diet

4:00

culture was like my whole

4:02

life and it was , I would say

4:04

, primarily self-inflicted . I did

4:06

not have a mother that grew up like

4:09

you know , body checking and doing a whole

4:11

lot of that . So that was nice . But my

4:14

dad was a fitness competitor

4:16

and I didn't live with him . But you know , he was very

4:18

influential in my life . I just I looked up

4:21

to him , I put him on a pedestal and he

4:23

was Mr Michigan in 1989

4:25

for the lightweight division , so oh

4:28

, wow , and so I watched him

4:30

work out and when I got into high school and I got into

4:32

sports , he would have me come to the gym

4:34

and I would work out after working out at school

4:36

and I

4:38

would see , you know , all of these people

4:41

with these , you know muscles

4:43

or really tone , tight , thin bodies

4:45

, and that was just my perception

4:47

of health . That is what I thought health was

4:50

, and the irony in that

4:52

is becoming an adult and recognizing

4:54

that all of the things that my dad was doing

4:56

in his fitness competitor

4:58

life was like absolutely disordered

5:01

and I mean severe

5:03

, under eating , working out hours a day

5:05

and then , when competition season was over

5:07

, just binging like crazy . So

5:10

, um , but I back then

5:12

that's what I pictured to be health

5:14

, and so , um , I

5:17

I'm always a very short statured

5:19

woman and I just wanted to be

5:21

small , like I just believe that my

5:24

body getting big was bad , and

5:26

so I probably started dieting as early as

5:28

14 . And

5:31

everything , all the things over the course of my

5:33

life . It wasn't until I was about 37

5:36

. And I'm only 43 . I

5:39

was 37 when I finally stopped , but I think

5:41

the culminating

5:44

moment of it all was after having

5:46

my third child and I

5:48

was done breastfeeding him and I started gaining

5:50

weight and I was like Whoa we can't do this

5:52

. How dare we gain weight ? I

5:55

went into overdrive and so this is sort of the

5:57

beginning of , like , my really really disordered behaviors

5:59

I would say , exercising daily

6:02

and severely under eating

6:04

, all of those things and I

6:06

just got to a point where I

6:09

couldn't hold on Like I

6:11

didn't know left from right . My mind was consumed

6:14

with thoughts of food and movement all

6:16

day long and I

6:19

was overwhelmed and I really

6:21

, you know I know not everyone believes in God

6:23

or higher power , but I really feel like

6:25

God conspired with the universe

6:27

to plant a book in my face and

6:30

it was health at every size

6:32

, because I never searched for this . I

6:34

certainly didn't search for it in this moment . To

6:36

this day , I can't really recall how I stumbled

6:38

upon it . My Instagram feed was

6:40

not that of anti-diet

6:42

or body neutral or anti-fetal

6:45

. It wasn't . So I don't know how it happened

6:48

, but it came to me

6:50

and I read that book and , for

6:52

someone who's very into science and

6:54

research , reading about it , I don't love

6:56

doing it , but it was

6:59

mind blowing to understand

7:01

finally , to have a , to have

7:03

the , the vocabulary

7:06

to explain what my

7:08

body had been doing to me my whole life

7:10

, or what I had been doing to my body my

7:12

whole life , and having

7:15

the language and and understanding

7:17

the science behind it blew my

7:19

mind . And once I had

7:21

that knowledge , it was

7:36

like I can't keep living like this . So I , I mean , I

7:38

took a hard left down from diet culture

7:41

lane and I just

7:43

started reading and learning and listening

7:45

to podcasts and connecting

7:47

with people in this community

7:49

. And then I had to change the

7:51

way that I approached my work . Because of a physical

7:54

therapist , I was very you know

7:56

, very traditionally trained and

7:58

again associated weight with

8:00

worsening health , weight

8:02

with joint pain , weight , all these things

8:04

. And so I had to shift

8:07

from that and begin teaching

8:09

my clients in a new way and coaching my

8:12

clients in a new way , and it

8:14

was so affirming and so

8:16

freeing

8:18

. It's like the weight is just lifted off

8:21

your shoulders this idea that you

8:23

have to ascribe to these these

8:25

rules and these principles , and you must do this and

8:27

this and this , and then , when it doesn't work well , you

8:29

must've done something wrong , so do it again . So

8:32

letting go of that , it was just . It

8:34

completely changed my life and I

8:36

couldn't practice in the same way anymore

8:38

. You know , being a part of the health and wellness

8:41

world . So that's the condensed

8:43

but still long version , part of the health and

8:45

wellness world .

8:46

So that's the convinced but still long version

8:48

. Yeah

8:53

, no , I mean , I love that story . It's so . I love hearing people's

8:55

stories of how they come to this stuff . It's always it's amazing to me

8:57

how our stories overlap on

8:59

this , like everybody's

9:02

stories overlap on this , and what's so

9:04

funny is people are always like I

9:06

have no idea how I came across

9:08

this , it just showed up when I

9:10

needed it and like and

9:12

I just love that . And then it just

9:14

clicks because it's so representative

9:17

of your personal experience A

9:19

lot of times of what you're seeing with your clients

9:22

but can't explain , of

9:26

times of what you're seeing with your clients but can't explain , and it just like opens up this whole

9:28

world and like , and also just like , takes this huge weight off your shoulders

9:30

of like , so much self

9:32

blame , so much beating yourself up on a personal

9:35

level , on a professional level , and then it's

9:37

like oh no , this

9:39

is actually just how things

9:41

are supposed to be actually

9:47

just how things are supposed to be .

9:48

Yeah , yeah , go figure right . And it played into other areas of life . You know , always like

9:50

aiming for perfection , um

9:52

, seeing , you know , and

9:55

I always caveat this with you know , no

9:57

one is saying hard work isn't , you

9:59

know , great thing for achieving certain

10:01

goals , but I

10:04

overemphasized , like

10:06

the self

10:08

um , the

10:10

, the , the role that you play in in

10:12

your health and in everything . And so

10:14

, for me , controlling my

10:17

life and making it go the

10:19

way I believed it should go was

10:21

about being perfect and doing

10:23

all the things right . I was a very good

10:25

dieter .

10:26

Let me just put that out there .

10:27

Okay , I was good at it because there

10:30

was a time in my life when I could follow the rules

10:32

to a T . But then I looked

10:34

in other , like I was a very good student as

10:36

well . I was a very good employee , you

10:39

know , because I I

10:41

believed in the value of hard work , and I

10:43

still do to an extent . But but

10:45

I let it drive me to this idea

10:47

of perfectionism . If you can just work

10:49

hard enough , you can change and do anything

10:51

in your life , and that is what I believed

10:54

about my body for so long . Like you

10:56

can beat this body into submission and make it exactly

10:58

how you want it to be , and recognizing

11:02

like no , you can't Right

11:04

, right , and even

11:07

trying is so harmful

11:09

to yourself .

11:10

Yeah Well , I mean even the language there , like

11:12

beat this body into submission . That sounds

11:15

terrible , it's awful

11:17

.

11:17

It's awful , but in

11:19

the fitness world mainstream fitness

11:22

culture that is the language

11:24

that you know we use . Beat

11:26

myself into submission , suck

11:28

it up , no pain , no gain , like

11:32

what

11:34

. But that's how

11:36

I grew up and what I thought was

11:38

, you know , the road to good

11:40

health and recognizing

11:43

that it was not even good

11:45

health for my body , but it was

11:47

like even worse for my mental and emotional

11:50

health . That was the

11:52

part where it was like , oh , I've been neglecting . You

11:54

know two thirds of who I am

11:56

Right

11:58

.

11:59

Yeah .

11:59

My body look a certain way so

12:02

, and then you can start blaming yourself

12:04

for that too . So you have to kind of

12:06

let go .

12:07

But yeah , that that's a huge

12:09

thing , like so many , so often , when people get

12:11

to that point , when they do have that like aha moment

12:14

of like , oh , I actually

12:16

can't hard work and control

12:18

my way out of genetics

12:21

and social determinants of health

12:23

and like structural

12:25

and systemic issues and stuff like that

12:27

. Like you have that aha moment

12:30

and then you go oh my God

12:32

, what have I been doing with my life ? And there's

12:34

this other , and so like it's just

12:36

, it's just this ability to like , access

12:38

, compassion for yourself , all

12:40

around , that's the key .

12:42

That is the key . If I had

12:44

a dollar , for how many times I said compassion

12:47

in a session , you know , in sessions with clients

12:49

, because that's all it is . It's giving

12:52

ourselves a compassion we give other people every

12:54

single day , like every

12:56

single day we're nicer to other people than we are to

12:58

ourselves and it's

13:00

a shame and so , yeah , that's

13:02

my whole goal now like to be

13:04

kind to myself . And

13:07

it shows up in letting

13:09

go of diets and letting go of you know all the

13:11

toxic messages we get from

13:13

from that industry . But even things

13:15

like just giving myself a pass , like I

13:17

, I would never I used to never

13:20

cancel a thing . I said

13:22

I was going to a thing , my word is

13:24

my bond , I am at the thing or we are

13:26

doing the thing . But this past

13:29

two years , just being able to say , you

13:31

know what , when I scheduled

13:33

this , I thought it was going to work and I

13:36

feel awful today , or something's

13:38

off or I just need a day , or I just need

13:40

a minute and it's . It's been so beautiful

13:44

to see the response that people

13:46

give you like okay , absolutely

13:48

, I understand and you're like yeah

13:52

absolutely

13:54

.

13:54

I have never that was a huge

13:57

learning curve for me too , and , like when

13:59

I started doing that , I have never

14:01

had anybody give me a hard time

14:03

about canceling something like , and

14:06

that has blown my mind .

14:08

So silly how we do that to ourselves

14:11

.

14:11

Absolutely . But it's so interesting how like

14:13

, ultimately it's all just perfectionism

14:16

, like the , the dieting

14:18

, the , like the , the health

14:21

stuff , the um

14:23

, like all of that , like controlling

14:26

and everything , and ultimately that's

14:28

. There's no way that's only going to show

14:30

up in relation to food and our body . It's

14:32

going to show up in all kinds of places in our lives

14:34

. And so there's like

14:36

such a larger path

14:39

here to like deconstructing perfectionism

14:41

, when we start to let go of it around food

14:44

and bodies , like deconstructing perfectionism

14:46

when we start to let go of it around food and bodies

14:48

.

14:49

Oh gosh , you are just , like I don't know , bringing up too many things , because what

14:51

I'm finding is it's in every part of

14:53

my life yeah , every part

14:56

and you know , not

15:02

something that I've talked about publicly very much , but I'm in the process of going through a divorce

15:04

and that whole process is bringing up so many

15:07

of the same things that came up as I

15:09

as I divorced diet , culture like

15:12

letting go of these ideas

15:15

of what your life is supposed

15:17

to look like and what you're supposed to look

15:19

like and what your family is supposed

15:21

to look like . And , oh my

15:23

God , it's kicking my whole butt . I mean , I'm still

15:26

in the thick of it , obviously , but it's

15:28

just been astonishing to see the

15:30

parallels in different aspects

15:32

of my life . But you're right , it comes , it comes around

15:35

in in so many other issues

15:37

and relationships and areas of life . For

15:39

sure , and it's perfectionism is

15:42

a big part of it , so yeah

15:44

, thank you for sharing that

15:46

with us .

15:47

And like , and yeah , I mean that's something

15:49

I see , I've seen in my life

15:51

, I've seen in with clients

15:53

is that like our relationships

15:56

, like how we show up

15:58

in our relationships and how

16:01

we offer ourselves compassion

16:03

in different areas of our lives , how we handle

16:05

transition , and like all of that stuff

16:08

is just so heavily impacted

16:10

by all of this ? Yeah

16:12

, it really is . I

16:14

love that you already have all

16:17

of these self-compassion tools to offer

16:19

yourself right now . That's so nice .

16:21

I need them trust me . Yeah , for

16:23

sure , A lot happening

16:25

, but yeah .

16:26

Absolutely Well

16:36

, just to sort of transition

16:38

the topic a little bit works

16:40

from this health at every size , weight

16:43

neutral , weight inclusive perspective

16:45

for health

16:47

overall , but also specifically

16:49

for physical therapy things

16:52

, you know , joint pain , mobility

16:54

, flexibility , physical

16:57

wellness in general and I'd

17:00

love to talk a little bit more about that

17:02

, because so often the

17:04

like controlling narrative , especially

17:06

around joint pain , is oh

17:08

, you have joint pain , well , you should lose weight

17:10

, right , and I

17:13

think that's something that's really really

17:15

hard for people to let go

17:17

of . Oh yeah . So

17:19

I'm kind of curious like , first

17:22

of all , is that true ? Do

17:24

we actually need to lose weight in order

17:26

to improve our

17:29

joint pain , our mobility

17:31

, all of that stuff ?

17:48

the science , people listening . The science behind bone building , bone strengthening is

17:50

that our bones respond to the progressive load

17:52

that they receive , and that

17:54

is why we have people doing strength training

17:56

where they're loading their bodies with weights or

17:59

doing body weight exercises . That

18:02

weight bearing through the bones

18:04

specifically we're talking about the lower extremity

18:06

bones and joints is

18:08

actually helpful to

18:11

building strong bones , and

18:13

so this concept

18:15

, especially when we're talking about people who

18:18

have always lived in larger or fat

18:20

bodies their bones are

18:22

made for them , are

18:30

made for them . So this idea that your joint pain is heavily

18:32

impacted by the size and weight of your body is it's just a flawed concept , and I'm not saying

18:34

that there's never an instance where your weight can

18:37

can impact your joints . Of course

18:39

and I see this more when people gain a

18:41

large amount of weight in a very short window

18:43

of time , which is usually when someone is

18:45

on some sort of medication that makes

18:48

them like really shift bodies , like

18:50

really quickly , right , that

18:52

can have an impact , because it's not

18:54

the progressive load of normal

18:57

weight gain , right that your

18:59

joints have the opportunity to adjust

19:01

to . So that would be like an example of where it

19:03

might be a direct correlation impact

19:06

or causative impact is

19:08

what I'll say . What most people experience

19:11

is that correlation right ? They're

19:13

like when I was younger and I was thinner

19:16

, I didn't have joint pain . Now that

19:18

I'm older and I'm heavier , I have

19:20

joint pain . It's the weight and

19:22

I get that . I get why you see it that way

19:24

, but I just want people

19:26

to think a little deeper , because

19:28

you said two things . Two things

19:30

Right

19:33

, right , older , yeah , so

19:35

. Is it the weight ? Or

19:38

is it age related changes

19:40

? Hello , because that is just the nature

19:42

of our bodies we age the nature of our bodies . We age , things

19:44

get older and some things are , are

19:47

less competent

19:50

than they are in our youth . Such

19:53

is life , right , yeah

19:55

? Or ? And ? Or . Because

19:57

more than one or two or three or five

19:59

things can be true . Is

20:09

it the changes that your lifestyle has sustained over the course of time

20:12

? Right , and people naturally associate that . Well , the weight change

20:14

? Well , yes , and that will change . But did your activity level

20:16

change , right ? Has your strength

20:18

changed ? Has your flexibility

20:20

changed over the course of all

20:22

these years ? Did you incur any injuries

20:24

in this joint ? You know what

20:26

I mean . Has your posture changed

20:29

? All of these things impact

20:31

our joint health , and so

20:33

when we just narrow in and decide

20:36

it's just the weight , we're really doing

20:38

our bodies a disservice , because

20:40

we're not looking at the whole picture . And

20:42

you can find a correlation , I

20:44

think , the one that comes up all the time , I think

20:46

is it bald men and lung

20:49

cancer ? That ?

20:50

could be wrong , but yeah , no , it's something like

20:52

that , but this correlation .

20:53

So many bald men they have . So

20:56

many bald men have a higher

20:58

occurrence of lung cancer and literally

21:00

we know from science the baldness

21:03

and the cancer have nothing to do with each other

21:05

. They're just correlated . Just

21:07

happens to be that way for other factors

21:10

outside of those two things . And so when

21:12

we're talking about weight and joint pain , a

21:14

lot of times people just pull those two entities

21:17

out and be like , well , you cause this and that's

21:19

not what's happening . There can be correlations

21:21

because , yes , if you go from

21:23

being a very active person to being way more

21:25

inactive , if you have an injury

21:27

and find that you can't do the things

21:29

you used to do , if

21:32

you are expending less energy than you

21:34

used to , and add in just

21:36

aging , hormonal changes , all that stuff

21:38

, it's very likely that you will gain

21:40

weight . But that doesn't mean the weight

21:42

is causing the pain in the joints . What

21:45

is likely causing the pain in the joints are

21:47

the degenerative changes . We know that is directly

21:49

causal to joint pain and

21:52

a lack of strength and flexibility that you're experiencing

21:55

the joint because of the lack of activity

21:57

or whatever , and hydration

21:59

and supplementation , all the things . There's so

22:02

many factors that directly impact

22:04

the joint pain . Um , and weight

22:06

is not necessarily one of them

22:08

. So that's one of the myths I like busting

22:10

for people , because people come in with a lot of self

22:12

blame around joint pain and

22:15

our medical system is so unkind

22:17

to people in larger bodies and

22:19

I mean I have clients right now that they their

22:21

joints are done from life not

22:24

from anything to do like , just from life

22:26

and they need to have a joint replacement surgery

22:28

and they're denied because they're too large , their

22:31

BMI is too high , which is a whole

22:33

thing . It's a whole thing

22:35

. Advocacy is so important and

22:37

that's , you know , for me , the work that I do is

22:39

so important because I have to show

22:41

these if I can't get them the surgery which

22:43

you know we try but I have to show

22:45

them so much compassion and help them be

22:48

more compassionate to themselves , because they take

22:50

on the blame of like , well , this is my fault If

22:52

I had just figured out how to lose weight or

22:54

figure out how to stay small and

22:56

it's like this is not your fault . This is something

22:58

that you don't deserve to just happen to happen

23:01

, like so many other horrible , annoying

23:03

, upsetting things in life . You didn't

23:06

do this to yourself . Other

23:08

horrible , annoying , upsetting things in life . You didn't do this to yourself . So taking

23:10

that blame away is huge because our medical system puts it , puts

23:12

it on us . So we need to know we didn't do this

23:14

ourselves .

23:15

Yeah , absolutely . You

23:18

said so many things that I loved

23:20

there and so I just want to backtrack to like

23:22

a couple of parts of that

23:25

. So , first of all , I loved

23:27

what you said about the kind

23:29

of progressive load , and I

23:31

want to kind of talk about that a little bit more , because

23:34

I think what's really really interesting and I think this

23:36

is something that is honestly

23:38

going to like blow people's minds when they think

23:40

about it , because we don't think about

23:42

it this way but like , like

23:45

why wouldn't you

23:47

know we don't talk about the

23:49

harms of progressive

23:51

overload in squatting

23:54

or something like that ? Like that's fine

23:56

, definitely do that , but

23:58

but you

24:00

definitely can't just have body weight that does

24:03

that . Yeah , yeah .

24:04

That's , that's bad .

24:06

Right and like when you put it in

24:08

that perspective , it's

24:10

like why ? Why do you think that

24:12

your body can adapt to one of these things and

24:15

not the other ? Like why

24:17

is one of these things okay and

24:19

the other is your fault ?

24:21

Yeah , because the pathology of

24:24

of weight and body size is a

24:26

lucrative business . So

24:28

if we can make people believe

24:30

that they are the cause of their problems and

24:32

fatness is a problem , then

24:35

we can get money for fixing

24:38

the problem . And that's

24:40

what it is . I mean , that's all it is , unfortunately

24:42

, and it's lazy medicine . That's

24:45

what I call lazy medicine . It's like I'm

24:47

not going to dig to figure anything else out , I'm

24:49

just going to see it's anti-fat

24:51

bias , that's what it is . I'm going to see this person

24:53

in this large body and make assumptions

24:55

about what they do , what they eat , how they live

24:58

and I'm going to say if you just

25:00

worked out more and ate a little less

25:02

, change your diet up and lose some weight

25:04

, you probably won't experience that pain anymore . Change

25:06

your diet up and lose some weight , you probably won't experience that pain anymore

25:08

.

25:08

Yeah , and and even though the science doesn't support it at all the research

25:10

doesn't support it at all we

25:14

just , it's a low-hanging fruit , it's just

25:16

, it's the easy grab so

25:18

, and it's also so interesting because

25:20

it's like it's counterintuitive

25:23

too , because part of that

25:25

prescription for weight loss is probably

25:27

going to be exercise , which probably

25:30

is going to include some kind of strength training

25:32

and progressive overload . And so it's

25:34

just so

25:37

interesting that , like , you're

25:39

basically prescribing for somebody

25:41

to do something that their body is actually already

25:44

doing and having trouble with

25:46

and like needing some support with anyway

25:48

.

25:49

Yep , absolutely . It literally

25:51

makes no sense when you think about it that way

25:53

. There's no rhyme or reason

25:55

to it . Because if that were the case , we would tell

25:57

people , especially we would tell everyone

25:59

in a fat or large body don't lift weights

26:01

, because more weight on your joints is just going

26:03

to make that joint pain worse . We don't

26:05

do that . We encourage them to lift weights

26:07

and also to overdo cardio , but

26:10

we encourage that we don't tell them

26:12

like , oh no , that added

26:14

weight is going to blow your knees out , because

26:17

, one , it's not and two

26:19

, because that's not how our bodies work . Our

26:22

bodies literally adjust to the load

26:24

that they are given , and that is especially

26:27

true when we're talking about , you know

26:29

, strength training , building up our bones , building

26:31

up our muscles . So , yeah , it

26:33

doesn't .

26:34

It does not translate , and

26:37

I think sometimes people just need to hear

26:39

it out loud to be like oh

26:41

, I mean , I needed

26:43

to hear that out loud Because as somebody

26:45

that works in fitness , like personal training , teaching

26:47

, group exercise this comes up all

26:50

the time and to have this

26:52

language of progressive

26:54

overload of your body , like building

26:56

this progressive strength more

26:58

or less over time . Like I'm

27:00

literally just going to send everybody to listen

27:02

to this podcast episode because this

27:05

like puts into words a

27:07

lot of conversations that I have that I felt

27:09

like I've just kind of muddled my way through this

27:13

makes so much sense to me . Yeah

27:16

, yeah .

27:17

Absolutely and I also

27:19

liked the framing of like that . There

27:21

are some exceptions like that . There

27:23

is occasionally an

27:25

instance where you do see , like

27:28

rapid weight gain , where your body

27:30

has it doesn't have the the

27:32

time to adapt the way

27:34

, the way it needs to

27:36

.

27:37

But I also .

27:38

I also like your framing of it is like rapid

27:41

and unusual , usually from a medication

27:43

Cause . I think a lot of times people are will

27:46

be like , oh well , I've put

27:48

on X amount of weight

27:50

over the past year and

27:52

it's like , yeah , but like that's

27:55

essentially progressive overload . You

27:57

didn't just like snap your fingers and add

27:59

a bunch of weight to your body . You've

28:01

gradually been adding it over

28:04

the year , which means your body

28:06

is adapting to it as you're adding

28:08

it .

28:09

Absolutely . That's very different than I

28:11

started this steroid , steroidal medication

28:14

for this condition that I have , and in

28:16

a week I was up 20 pounds . You know that's

28:18

very different than

28:20

than gaining the weight over the course of a year

28:22

or six months or whatever . So , yeah

28:25

, I do think those are situations , and then , you know

28:27

, a lot of times that's fluid and fluid impacts

28:29

us in different ways as well . So so

28:31

, yeah , there are some definite considerations

28:33

for changing in body size

28:35

and dealing with pain in our joints , but it's

28:38

, it's just not the old school

28:40

lazy medicine thought

28:42

process that you got fat and now your

28:44

joints hurt , so fix it Like that's just . It's

28:47

just dumb , it's and it's not , it's not right

28:49

. That's really just the bottom line .

28:51

Absolutely , and then I also

28:53

really appreciate the like

28:55

, the perspective of multiple

28:58

things are often happening at the same time

29:00

. And like weight gain

29:02

may be a symptom of

29:05

the thing that is also

29:07

causing the joint

29:09

pain or the change in mobility or

29:11

things like that , and so , like it's

29:13

easy to say well , both

29:15

of these things happened at the same time , so the weight

29:18

gain is the reason . But like that

29:20

, it's so important to to kind

29:22

of look at the bigger picture of like

29:24

no , what else

29:26

is happening that could possibly have

29:28

led to both of these things ? Like

29:31

that's a conversation I have with

29:33

clients all the time about

29:36

like well , I felt better , Like my body

29:38

felt better , I was able to move better

29:40

, like when I was in a smaller body , and it's like , okay

29:42

, but what else has changed

29:45

since you put on the weight ? Like what ? Else

29:47

have you ? What in your lifestyle

29:49

has changed , Like that could also

29:52

be making things not feel so good .

29:54

Yeah , that's , and I have that conversation

29:56

. Sometimes it's on social media when I talk about

29:58

. Like you know , you didn't cause your joint pain by gaining

30:00

weight and losing weight won't necessarily change it

30:02

. And people are like , well , I felt so much better

30:05

when I lost weight and I'm like , okay , that's

30:08

really good for you , I'm so glad you feel better . But

30:10

maybe maybe it was the weight . In your case

30:12

I don't live in your body and I trust that you

30:14

are the expert of that and I'm not but maybe

30:17

it was the changes in the

30:19

nutritional intake

30:21

, like maybe you were eating more nutritionally dense

30:23

foods , or maybe you were drinking a lot more water , or

30:25

maybe you were taking some really good supplements

30:27

for your bones , or maybe you were moving

30:30

more , maybe you were stretching more , maybe

30:32

you were doing more functional tasks like

30:34

those things aid

30:36

in the lessening

30:38

of joint pain far

30:41

more than changing your body size . So

30:44

having that conversation on the other end but also

30:46

I like to remind people that if

30:49

weight , body size

30:51

, fat composition whatever you want to

30:53

say is the culprit for

30:55

joint pain , why are there thin

30:57

people with joint pain ?

30:59

Always . There's nothing that

31:01

only fat people deal with , except for

31:03

, like anti-fat bias , obviously

31:05

.

31:05

Exactly Just weight-based discrimination , Absolutely

31:08

. Why is ? Why are there thin

31:10

people with joint pain and why are there larger

31:12

body people who don't have joint pain ?

31:14

Right .

31:15

Yeah , yeah . If we

31:17

can't explain that , then

31:20

like , yeah

31:23

, that's the whole basis of the conversation . And

31:25

so when I am trying to

31:27

, you know , help my clients advocate for themselves

31:29

, I often say you know , if you're going to the

31:31

doctor for joint pain and you

31:33

happen to exist in a larger body , just

31:36

just preemptively

31:38

tell your doctor , or wait till after

31:40

they make their recommendations , but tell them I

31:42

would like some treatment options that you would

31:44

give a person in a smaller body . What

31:47

would you say if I

31:49

weighed 100 pounds less or whatever

31:51

? What would you say if I was in a straight size , thin

31:53

, normal , quote , unquote normal ? What

31:56

would you say to my joint pain ? What would be

31:58

your suggestions , your treatment options

32:00

? Because they wouldn't be weight loss . So

32:03

just dig a little bit , you know like

32:05

, force them out of that lazy medicine box

32:08

and see what they come up with

32:10

then .

32:11

Absolutely Well speaking of that . So

32:14

you are a physical therapist who

32:16

does not treat joint pain with recommendations

32:19

for weight loss . So how do you

32:21

support people in , you

32:23

know , improving their joint pain , their mobility

32:25

, things like that , without

32:27

focusing on weight loss ? What are

32:29

things that actually do work and

32:32

do help ?

32:33

Great question . So , first and foremost , I complete

32:36

an actual physical

32:39

examination . Again

32:41

, if I had a dollar for every time , someone told me they

32:43

went to see a physical therapist

32:46

, a medical doctor , whomever , who didn't

32:48

even touch them , just ask a couple of questions

32:50

or sometimes don't even ask questions and just

32:52

made a treatment plan . So the first thing I do

32:54

is I do a complete physical examination

32:56

and then I ask you a million questions

32:58

. The first half of our session is talking

33:00

, because there's no

33:02

way I can help you if I don't have an understanding of who

33:05

you are , what your lifestyle looks like , and

33:07

I can't make assumptions about that . I need to

33:09

know from you and I need

33:11

to look at your body and

33:13

check the range of motion in your joints

33:15

and test your strength and and

33:18

check your ligamentous integrity . And

33:20

you know , palpate and feel and see

33:22

if there's tender points or pressure points . All

33:26

of that , all of that is a part of the full

33:28

picture of who you are . And

33:30

once I know that , then I see , oh

33:32

okay , we're lacking in range of motion in here

33:35

. These muscles are really , really weak . These

33:37

muscles are excessively tight . There's an imbalance

33:39

from here to there . These ligaments do not

33:41

seem to be doing their job . Maybe they need

33:43

to see their doctor and get an MRI . You

33:45

know there might be a special test we do and I'm

33:48

like they might have like an actual

33:50

tear of a ligament that needs

33:52

to be looked at . So , giving people

33:54

actual information based

33:56

on an examination and

33:58

an interview of them , the

34:01

expert they're the expert I'm just there

34:03

helping them figure it out and doing

34:06

that , then I can create a treatment

34:08

plan that makes sense . And so , primarily what happens

34:10

, what I see most of the time is

34:12

there's a severe lack of range of motion in

34:15

the joint and often it is because of a very

34:17

tight muscle group . You

34:19

know we were not taught to stretch . You know

34:21

our emphasis in

34:23

our culture is on like a bunch of cardio

34:26

. If you're a woman or someone who identifies

34:28

as a woman , it's like do your cardio to try

34:30

to get as small as you can . And you know squat

34:32

, of course , because you know we like to have a big . You know

34:34

booty now because that's popular . So that's

34:37

like the extent of like our exercise

34:39

prescription for people like what's healthy and

34:41

good for you . But we're not taught to stretch

34:43

. And I tell people all the time your muscles are only

34:45

as strong as they are flexible . If you

34:48

do not have muscle flexibility , I don't care how big

34:50

that bicep looks , how formed

34:52

and beautiful it is , when you go to reach for something

34:55

it's going to tear and that's a whole problem . So

34:57

flexibility is like number

34:59

. That's the number one thing that I see

35:02

. It stops us from doing everything and

35:04

then it impacts our posture . So how we normally

35:06

sit and stand , this muscle group

35:08

is short . That muscle group is long and stretched

35:10

out and weak , and so we have

35:12

to , like , reverse engineer

35:15

what we want to see . We want good posture . Her

35:17

shoulders are forward . We have to relax

35:19

the muscles in the chest wall , strengthen

35:22

the muscles in the upper back . That's instant

35:24

, Like that's what we do , so recognizing

35:27

where the instability is

35:29

, where the insufficiencies are , where the imbalances

35:31

are , and then , like , we're going to stretch this group

35:33

, we're going to strengthen this group . You're going to do this at

35:35

home . And then we're going to work together once or twice a week

35:38

and and push into it even deeper

35:40

. We're going to do manual therapy things

35:42

to kind of relax certain areas and help

35:44

with alignment . You know , we're going to do

35:46

endurance training , we're going to do balance

35:48

training . That's another thing we don't work on as

35:50

a culture balance

35:53

, um , but there's so

35:55

many other areas , but it's usually

35:57

somewhere around the strength issues , the

36:00

flexibility issues , the range of motion

36:02

issues in the joint that require , like , manual

36:04

therapy and then again

36:06

other things like balance , proprioception

36:09

and things like that , but it's

36:11

it's almost never . Really

36:15

I haven't seen a case where it's

36:17

your joint pain is because of the size

36:19

of your body it has . It's always

36:22

something else . Now , I will , you know

36:24

, understand , for some people and I've had this

36:26

come up , especially , like in discussions

36:28

and forums on social media where

36:30

people are like , listen , I understand

36:32

that maybe losing weight is not what's

36:34

going to cure my joint pain , but being

36:37

in this body makes it very hard for me to move

36:39

and I do like to just recognize that there

36:42

there are limitations

36:44

that we can experience in our bodies

36:46

, especially if we're managing changes

36:49

that have occurred in our bodies over time

36:53

and so leaving

36:56

that space for people to have their experiences

36:59

right and to say like , okay

37:01

, I don't live in your body Again . You're

37:03

the expert of your body and you have

37:05

a frame of reference for when you were a certain

37:08

size and age and now

37:10

a different size and age and now this

37:12

what you notice is it is harder

37:15

to do certain things , and we can

37:17

absolutely accept that and acknowledge

37:19

that . But again , we

37:23

can absolutely accept that and acknowledge that , but again we we do ourselves

37:25

an injustice when we blame it on the weight , because it's not just the weight , it's

37:28

a lack of mobility . There are people

37:30

in large bodies who are extremely flexible , who

37:32

can put their foot behind their head . So

37:35

it's not , it's not always the weight . Maybe

37:37

the weight and the size of your body

37:40

, because it's new to you , is impacting

37:42

what you feel comfortable and confident

37:44

doing . But that is something we can work

37:47

on and we can get better at that

37:49

, even if your body doesn't change . And that's

37:51

that's what I want people to know .

37:52

Oh my God . Yes , that

37:55

was yes , Because that's a

37:57

thing that absolutely I think

37:59

you see a lot of honestly like to be totally

38:01

transparent . It's something that I have been dealing

38:04

with recently . I started

38:07

my career as a Pilates instructor in

38:09

a body that was quite a bit smaller

38:12

than it is now . Right , I

38:14

stepped away from it for like 10 years and

38:16

, over the past year , started taking Pilates

38:18

classes again not teaching , but taking Pilates

38:20

classes again . Started taking Pilates classes again

38:22

, not teaching , but taking Pilates classes again and

38:28

I have had to like relearn how to do a lot of stuff in my

38:30

body as it is today .

38:30

And there have been moments of friction about

38:33

that .

38:34

But you know , because of my background

38:36

and what I do , I also am able to

38:38

recognize , like that is not . First of all

38:40

, that's not . For the most part , physical

38:43

discomfort is mental

38:45

discomfort , which is something not

38:48

to discount , that Like that's , that's

38:50

very real for people to work through

38:52

. And just

38:55

because something is uncomfortable , the

38:57

way that I know how to do it , doesn't

39:00

mean that there isn't a way I can

39:02

learn to do it that is more comfortable

39:04

for my body . But , I have

39:06

to allow myself

39:09

to . Like I

39:11

have to let myself access that comfort

39:13

. Like I have to know that it's

39:15

okay to do it

39:18

the more comfortable way . Like that's not a

39:20

lesser version , that's not like

39:22

you know . I have

39:24

to not judge myself for doing

39:26

it that way . And I think that that's really hard

39:28

for people to do it

39:30

doesn't look like it did before

39:33

. It doesn't look like it does

39:35

when other people do it Like

39:37

I should be able to do it . The

39:39

quote unquote right way .

39:42

I hate the shoulds . I always say

39:44

don't should yourself .

39:46

Exactly , and so there's this like whole process

39:48

that people have to go through to like essentially

39:51

relearn how

39:53

to move in a body

39:55

that's larger than it was maybe

39:58

the last time they were moving , or things

40:00

like that . And that's very real

40:02

and so like being able to support people through

40:04

that is really big .

40:06

Yeah , no , it's a . It's a real thing . I

40:08

too have experienced it and I

40:11

it's kind of what I do on the coaching

40:13

side of my business . I offer anti diet

40:15

, health , movement and body image coaching

40:17

, and the movement is really around

40:19

this idea that modifications

40:21

are brilliant , modifications are

40:24

smart , modifications are

40:26

wise , modifications

40:28

are kindness , modifications

40:30

are how we show our body the respect that it deserves

40:32

and take away the blame

40:35

of like , oh , I can't do it how I used to do . You

40:37

know , when I go through this myself , I'm like so

40:39

what ? I don't say that to clients because you know I want

40:41

to offer more compassion , but just

40:45

recognizing that there's no rule that

40:47

it has to be done this way . And

41:02

, like you said , this isn't a lesser version . Sometimes

41:04

I will do it how I modify

41:07

for my body , sometimes I will do

41:09

it how I've helped other clients modify

41:11

movements for their bodies , and sometimes

41:13

I'll do it , you know , from a seated position

41:15

, so that people recognize like movement is movement

41:17

. You know , you don't have to be able to

41:19

jump and flip and do aerials

41:21

to like move your body . You can do it from

41:24

sitting , from lying , and

41:26

there's no shame in it and it's not like oh , this

41:28

is the easy version or the beginner version

41:30

. Oh , this is the you version . This is the version

41:33

that makes sense for you and your body and

41:35

that is the kindest , most compassionate thing

41:37

you can do . Is give your body what

41:39

it needs , instead of trying to say , well , they did

41:41

it that way , well , that's what their body needs . That's not your

41:43

body . Don't . Don't think

41:46

that you have to emulate other people to

41:48

take care of you , because you're different people

41:51

, you

41:55

know . So , giving yourself the permission to do it exactly as you need it and it could

41:57

be something simple . Like you know , for years I did child's pose and I could do it

41:59

, but it always felt a little uncomfortable

42:01

. And as I've gotten older and I have this belly

42:03

that I didn't have before , I realized

42:06

, like child's pose should be legs

42:08

open every time . That's

42:11

the only way I do it , and I tell all

42:13

my clients like , open those knees

42:15

, honey , give yourself space for that

42:17

body and take care of yourself

42:19

, because contorting yourself and

42:21

making yourself uncomfortable , especially

42:24

in a position like child's pose , that's supposed

42:26

to be relaxing for your body

42:29

. It literally it ruins it

42:31

and it's no point then . So , modifications

42:34

for the win every day , all

42:36

day . Sometimes I mean I can . I

42:38

don't do jumping jacks . I can jump . I can still

42:40

jump . Yeah , I just don't see a point

42:42

Right . I don't enjoy them . I feel

42:45

like it puts a lot of pressure on the inside of my

42:47

ankles and knees and so I don't . I

42:49

don't jump and jack , I do a sidestep , like

42:51

, and I'm so happy with it , and guess

42:54

what , my heart rate gets up and I get a workout . So

42:56

giving people the permission to say like

42:58

, yeah , I don't , I don't have to do it like you , and

43:01

feeling no shame around that , that's really

43:03

, really important and that's it's hard work , but it's

43:05

worth it for sure .

43:07

Absolutely Especially like sometimes you

43:09

, you have an instructor who's like telling

43:11

you to do it one way and you're like

43:14

nope , that's not how

43:16

my body does this , but thanks , yeah

43:19

, well , I definitely found that to be like

43:21

, true , like as an instructor and as a participant

43:23

. But I mean , I pretty much every time I'm

43:25

teaching a class I tell folks I'm like , okay , if

43:27

you want to do jumping jacks , go for it , but I'm

43:30

not going to do it . And I feel like it's validating for

43:32

people to see the person in the front of the

43:34

room take the alternative

43:36

movement because they're like okay , well , if she's okay

43:39

not doing jumping jacks , I will be also okay

43:41

Not doing jumping jacks .

43:42

I totally agree with that and I think more instructors need

43:44

to be open to that . What I have experienced

43:47

and let me let me just say this when I'm talking about

43:49

these people , I am talking about myself , because

43:51

I used to be this person . Okay , I

43:53

used to teach exercise classes and I was fiercely

43:55

competitive . I told you my dad was a fitness competitor

43:58

, so I was fiercely competitive and I was

44:00

always in competition with myself or someone , and

44:03

so when I was teaching , I was doing

44:05

the hardest version and and trying to will everybody

44:07

to to do that too . So

44:09

I don't pass judgment , because I understand the

44:11

thought process that goes into that , but

44:14

it's it's not healthy

44:16

or sustainable long term , and

44:18

people do need to know and see it from

44:20

instructors long

44:23

term . And people do need to know and see it from instructors . And so you know

44:25

, when I'm in a situation now where I have an instructor and typically I haven't

44:27

had any like really negative situations except

44:29

for once but when I get

44:31

, um , like when

44:34

I pick up on that energy , that it's like all right

44:36

, no pain , no gain , go hard or go home

44:38

I just like take a

44:40

deep breath and I get into my bubble and I'm like I'm

44:42

doing this , how I'm doing this . The one time I

44:44

did have like an icky sort

44:46

of I won't even call it altercation , but

44:48

like exchange was I was there

44:51

with a friend too and she

44:53

was maybe like four weeks out from a major

44:55

abdominal surgery and

44:57

she was modifying everything you know

45:00

, having the knee lifts , and

45:02

the instructor came down into the

45:04

audience and was like get those knees up . And

45:06

she and so I was like ma'am , get

45:10

out her face . Yeah

45:12

no . She is recovering

45:14

from surgery and leave her alone Like

45:16

she's doing the workouts the way she needs to

45:19

. And she was like , oh well , why

45:21

is she here ? Then ? I was like to

45:23

work out , why are you

45:25

in her face ? So

45:28

I didn't go back there , because me and that lady were going

45:30

to end up arguing , and that's

45:32

not what I need when I go work out , but

45:34

I typically work out at home for that reason

45:36

. But yeah , it is

45:38

, you're right , it's very validating to see the instructor

45:41

doing alternative moves , modifications

45:43

, so

45:52

to take away that , that shame and that stigma around , like , if you're doing this

45:54

, this is like the easy version , the weak version , the beginner version . No , it's

45:56

not . It's the best , best version for you . And I think we do our clients a service

45:58

when we show them different ways of doing a

46:00

movement so that they have more options for them , cause

46:02

that's , you know , the training we have . They don't you

46:04

know . So helping educate people in that

46:06

way is , it's very important .

46:09

Yeah , I love that and I I love

46:11

the , the framing of like that

46:13

. This is a way that you show your

46:15

body , respect , absolutely

46:18

, Speaking of which

46:20

. I know that you have a

46:22

body respect journal out

46:25

. Can you tell us a little bit about that ? What that

46:27

is , where people can find it ?

46:43

cover , but it was just a little labor of love . I have played with

46:46

the idea of doing more because I really enjoyed it . But it's an

46:48

affirmational journal for 30 days and there's

46:50

an affirmation for each day and then a space

46:52

for you to sort of write

46:55

what that means for you and then how

46:57

it applies to your day to day life , and

46:59

it's really just about affirming the

47:02

beauty and the utility

47:04

and the importance and the significance

47:07

of our bodies , without putting

47:10

our bodies above the rest of

47:12

us , if that makes sense . So your

47:14

body is wonderful and great and it's

47:17

your meat suit that carries you through this

47:19

world and you should treat it well . But also

47:21

, you are so much more than just a body and

47:23

I'm pretty sure you are more than a body is one of the

47:26

affirmations in the book . But

47:28

it's just an opportunity for people to reflect

47:30

. You know , it's not about body

47:33

positivity or this idea that , oh , I look

47:35

in the mirror and I'm so happy with what I see and I love

47:37

it because that's nobody has that . I don't care what size

47:40

you are , but

47:45

just what I see and I love it because that's nobody has that . I don't care what size you are , it's just . We just don't live in a world that allows

47:47

that . You know , when I was like , I laughed at my niece and my daughter actually one of my daughters . They spent a lot

47:49

of time in the mirror like so happy , like just loving on

47:52

themselves , and we maintain that probably

47:54

till we're about five years old , and then after that it's

47:56

downhill , right . So you

47:59

can't just wake up and look at yourself and be happy

48:01

with what you see all the time because

48:04

we have so many icky negative influences

48:06

on us . But you can wake up

48:08

and respect yourself and respect your body

48:10

and think . You know what I'm struggling

48:13

with , the image that I'm seeing reflected

48:15

back to me . But I do know that my body

48:17

has carried me through this life and I do know

48:19

that it deserves to be treated well , that my body has carried

48:21

me through this life and I do know that it deserves to be treated well . So just

48:23

respect and recognizing that the body is housing the essence

48:25

of who you are your mind , your soul , the

48:28

things you do , the things you say , the impact

48:30

you have , the way you treat others . You

48:37

know all of that is what matters about who you are . But in the interim , while we're

48:39

navigating this earth in these bodies . We want to treat them well and not demean

48:41

them or tell them you know they're bad

48:43

or they're wrong or they need to change so . So

48:46

the affirmations are centered around that and there's a

48:48

lot of it's a big one . It's like eight by eight and

48:50

a half by 11 . So lots of space to write . And

48:53

yeah , I'm very proud of it because I enjoy it . I'm

49:02

doing a talk in Atlanta next weekend to some girls ages 12 to 18 and they'll all

49:04

be getting one as a part of their little swag bag .

49:05

So I'm excited to like love that . Spread that out . That's awesome and I love that . Like

49:08

I tend to be very like skeptical

49:10

about affirmations because so

49:12

often they're . They're basically

49:14

like stand in the mirror and

49:17

like pick out a part of you that you love

49:19

and they're just , they

49:21

feel very hollow , but like this

49:23

is like this is bigger

49:25

than that , like this is not

49:28

body positivity , it's body respect

49:30

.

49:31

And like .

49:32

these are different things and I think so often

49:35

affirmational types of

49:37

things stop at body positivity

49:39

. And as a result they don't really

49:41

, they don't really create a lot of change

49:43

they don't really like , but this

49:46

is , this is the big picture

49:48

. This is the body respect journal

49:50

. These are body respect affirmations and that

49:53

that's huge , that's that's awesome

49:55

.

49:55

I'll send you one . I'll send you one . You should have mentioned

49:57

it . I should have thought about that . I'll send you

49:59

one .

50:01

That would be amazing , thank you .

50:04

Making my note right now

50:06

.

50:06

I appreciate that . Yes , so

50:09

Lisa , it is . This has been amazing talking

50:11

to you . Where can people find you , how

50:13

can people work with you ? Other than the journal , of

50:15

course , which everybody please go check that out

50:17

on Amazon . But other

50:20

than that , what ? How can people find you and work

50:22

with you ?

50:23

Well , my website is healthy

50:25

fitcom . Fit is spelled ph

50:27

it , but I live on Instagram

50:29

, so you know , just DM

50:32

me . I'm fairly responsive . You know to

50:34

be like a mom with three kids and a business

50:36

. I get on there probably too much

50:38

. I do have time limits , but still , Instagram

50:41

is Healthy Fit Same spelling H-E-A-L-T-H-Y-P-H-I-T

50:44

. And then I do coaching

50:46

, I do virtual physical therapy . If you're in North

50:49

or South Carolina , everything is

50:51

weight inclusive

50:53

, size inclusive and trauma

50:55

and eating disorder informed . So

50:57

if you need support , I am

50:59

happy to help .

51:01

That is amazing . It is good to know that you see

51:03

clients virtually in North . Carolina

51:05

, because we tend to refer people

51:07

to all kinds of different therapies and

51:10

physical therapy comes up at least once a week

51:12

.

51:12

So , oh , awesome , yes , I love it , and you

51:16

know it can be tough to do physical therapy

51:18

virtually , but a lot of people can still benefit

51:20

and for me it's being in a safer

51:22

space rather than just going to some random

51:24

clinic . You know it's , it's just

51:26

better . So so yeah , happy to help

51:29

if I can . Yeah , awesome

51:31

.

51:32

Well , lisa , the last question . We ask everybody

51:34

what is satisfying you right now

51:36

?

51:38

Oh , I'm , you know I've . I

51:40

told y'all earlier I'm struggling with a lot right now , but

51:43

what is going to sound hilarious , what

51:45

has really been satisfying me is is

51:48

really good food , and

51:51

not just the food , but like the combination of really good

51:54

food and conversation . So literally

51:56

when we get off of here , I'm going to meet a good girlfriend

51:58

for dinner and I just can't

52:00

wait to just sit and

52:02

eat especially when I don't have to cook it or clean

52:04

it up to sit and eat and talk

52:07

with my friend who I haven't gotten to catch up with

52:09

in a few months . So , yeah

52:11

, that has been very satisfying . The , the

52:13

communal support with

52:15

good girlfriends over good food . That's

52:18

my thing at the moment .

52:19

It's getting me through lovely , that is

52:22

the greatest . I love that . And also

52:24

just like so representative of

52:26

like a thing that you

52:28

lose out on when you're stuck in diet

52:30

culture , like it's just like

52:33

yeah , so that I mean like perfect

52:36

, perfect , awesome

52:40

. Well , lisa , thank you so much for

52:42

coming to talk to us . This is huge . I know

52:44

our listeners are going to get so much

52:46

out of this . We definitely did , um

52:49

, and it was just great to be able to connect with you

52:51

.

52:51

thank you for being here thank you

52:53

, I really enjoyed the conversation . I appreciate

52:55

you all .

52:56

Thanks for having me thanks again to dr

52:58

lisa fulton for coming to talk to us . If

53:00

you enjoyed this episode , consider leaving us

53:02

a rating or review on apple podcast or spotify

53:05

, as those ratings and reviews help us reach

53:07

more people , which means more people get

53:09

to hear the anti-diet message . We

53:11

are also on instagram at satisfaction

53:13

factor pod . Be sure to drop by and let

53:15

us know what you thought about the episode that's

53:18

it for us this week .

53:19

We'll catch you next time .