It's a very NSFW one, pals! And also, it's got VALENCE S1E11 spoilers, so make sure you listen to that first! In this episode, I talk to Josh Rubino (Liam) and John Westover (Nico) about conveying "fuck energy." But also, we talk about modern art, control issues, and how people convey their trauma.

Check out Cornelia Parker's "Mass (Colder Darker Matter)," the art piece discussed in this episode, here:

• The Phoenix Art Museum: https://phxart.org/arts/mass-colder-darker-matter-monton-materia-mas-oscura-mas-fria/
• A video on another Cornelia Parker piece, just "Cold Dark Matter": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrTvMxPl3xA&t=35s

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