The following is a conversation between John Kania, Founder and Executive Director of Collective Change Lab, and Denver Frederick, the Host of The Business of Giving.

My next guest has been a practitioner, researcher, writer, teacher, and speaker on how organizations and people can achieve change together. For 17 years, he ran FSG, a nonprofit consulting firm and think tank. From 2018 to 2020, he served as executive-in-residence at national venture philanthropy, New Profit, co-leading the launch of a systems change practice. He is John Kania, the Founder and Executive Director of Collective Change Lab.