Episode Transcript
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0:00
In the dry states of the Southwest,
0:02
there's a group that's been denied a
0:04
basic human right. In the Navajo Nation
0:07
today, a third of our households don't
0:09
have running water. But that's not something
0:11
they chose for themselves. Can the Navajo
0:14
people reclaim their right to water and
0:16
contend with the government's legacy of control
0:18
and neglect? Our water, our
0:21
beauty, our water, our beauty.
0:24
That's in the next season of
0:26
Reclaimed, the lifeblood of Navajo Nation.
0:28
Listen now wherever you get your
0:30
podcasts. One
0:59
chance is when that kid could die. Tonight
1:10
we're talking about something that could
1:12
affect half of America. That
1:15
means you. So
1:18
listen up because what you learn
1:20
could change your life and
1:22
that of the people you love the most. When
1:26
the traditional family breaks down, everything
1:29
starts unraveling. Let's
1:31
look a little deeper at what's
1:33
happening, starting with some stunning numbers
1:36
on marriage and family in America. In
1:40
1960, at the height of the baby
1:42
boom, after World War II,
1:44
5% of children were born to unwed
1:46
parents. By
1:49
1980, that number tripled, reaching
1:51
18%. In 2016, a
1:54
whopping 40% of children
1:57
in the U.S. were born to women who were
1:59
single mothers. or living
2:01
with a non-marital partner. Now
2:04
let's talk about divorce. According
2:06
to the CDC in 2021, a
2:10
total of 689,308 divorces occurred across
2:15
the United States. Many will head to
2:17
family court. In family courts,
2:20
the matter of custody is generally viewed
2:22
as a he said, she said. And
2:26
boy, can it get ugly when
2:28
parents use their children as pawns
2:30
when they use them as a rope in a tug of war.
2:34
These custody cases reveal a
2:36
national crisis in the
2:38
family court system that regularly,
2:42
all too regularly misses warning signs
2:44
that exposes too many children to
2:46
abuse and in
2:48
fact, death. Now 22 year
2:50
old RJ says he and his siblings were
2:53
in a 15 year tug of
2:55
war between his mother and
2:57
father and the family court, well,
3:00
he says they just made it worse. My
3:03
two protectors should have been my mom and dad, but
3:06
they were both fighting in family court. So I
3:08
was caught in the middle of it with my
3:10
siblings. We were on our own. Me
3:12
and my siblings definitely felt helpless. We felt like
3:14
we had no power. You
3:19
know, children get caught in the middle of this.
3:21
They pick up the tab for
3:23
the parents fight. And RJ
3:25
says he was collateral damage of
3:27
a broken system that failed
3:30
him. And we're gonna meet
3:32
he and his mother later and
3:34
find out why the judge on their
3:37
case sent his mother to jail. But
3:39
first, I sent former
3:41
Los Angeles criminal prosecutor and
3:43
now our co-anchor of
3:45
news on Merritt Street, Lonnie Coombs on
3:48
an assignment. She says she
3:50
is very passionate about his
3:52
lady justice failing families throughout
3:54
America. Yeah, thank
3:56
you, Dr. Phil. You know, we see
3:59
these appalling headlines. a Colorado mom suspected
4:01
of killing her two kids. She was
4:03
days away from losing them to her
4:05
ex in a custody battle. A
4:08
divorced father allegedly sets his home
4:10
on fire, killing his three
4:12
children inside while their mother was at
4:14
work. A mom in the midst
4:17
of a custody battle drowns her
4:19
kids in a murder suicide. But
4:21
you know, Dr. Phil, as horrific as
4:23
these headlines are, they still
4:25
don't give the full story. Every
4:29
six days, a child dies amid
4:31
custody fights and family court lapses.
4:34
Even more sobering, since 2008, 984
4:37
children were killed by a parental figure. Family
4:42
courts involved in these cases often miss
4:44
the signs of trouble. Research
4:47
suggests that the emphasis on prioritizing
4:49
parental visitation, even in cases where
4:51
abuse is present, put
4:53
kids at risk. Kids become pawns in
4:56
a divorced tug of war. Every
4:59
year, 58,000 children sent pursuant
5:01
to a custody order or for
5:03
unprotected visitation end up with
5:06
abusers. In fact, nearly half
5:08
of custody evaluators still recommend
5:10
unsupervised visits despite reports of
5:13
family violence. In 2020, more than 588,000
5:15
kids were
5:18
victims of abuse or neglect. In
5:21
2019, more than 672,000 kids spent
5:25
time in foster care in the US. And
5:28
statistics suggest that about 1 third of
5:31
the children placed in foster care are
5:33
abused. All of this is
5:35
evidence that the system meant to protect
5:37
our kids is broken. Well,
5:41
those numbers are shocking. What
5:43
it amounts to is the fact that
5:45
hundreds of thousands of children are
5:48
winding up at the hands of their abusers and
5:51
family courts are missing this.
5:54
Sometimes they're complicit in turning
5:56
these children over to
5:58
the abusers. When they have evidence,
6:00
right in front of them that
6:02
they're abusers. Now Lonnie
6:04
headed back to the courtroom to find
6:07
out why two fathers say their battle
6:09
for their children was like facing off
6:11
with an organized crime syndicate. Do
6:15
you feel that the system in
6:17
the family law courts is corrupt? Absolutely.
6:19
Yes. I would say it's
6:21
organized crime. It's like a mafia. I like to
6:24
call it the state sanctioned destruction of the family.
6:26
A parent can make a false allegation against
6:29
the other one, and they
6:31
immediately can go to court and get
6:33
a protective order, restraining order based on
6:35
that allegation. A lot of
6:37
people call them silver bullets because it
6:39
only takes one to basically win
6:42
custody. How much has this whole process
6:44
ended up costing you financially? Two and
6:46
a half years ago, I quit
6:48
keeping track, and two and a half years ago it was
6:50
about $700,000. Overall,
6:53
I lost about three and a half years with
6:55
my children. We would like
6:57
audio and video cameras added to
6:59
the courtrooms, and we would like
7:01
to lower the immunity barrier. Currently,
7:03
judges have absolute immunity, and
7:05
where there is no accountability, you're
7:08
gonna have corruption. Judges should actually
7:10
be held to a higher standard
7:12
instead of no standard at all.
7:18
Well, we have three high-powered pros
7:20
here tonight who know
7:22
how to navigate around the family
7:24
courtroom and the legal
7:26
system in general. Joining
7:29
Lonnie, our Michigan Circuit Court
7:31
Judge, Rosemarie Aquilina, she presides
7:33
over family and criminal court
7:35
cases. She was a
7:37
family law attorney for 20 years, and
7:40
also Dr. Charles Sofi. He has been
7:42
an expert on my show and a
7:44
member of my Blue Ribbon Advisory Board
7:46
for a number of years. He is
7:48
a psychiatrist, former medical director of the
7:50
Los Angeles County Department of Child and
7:52
Family Services. He's triple board certified. Now,
7:54
I've been talking about the fact that
7:56
the family court system is broken. Judge,
8:01
am I right? You're right.
8:03
There are a lot of judges who've
8:06
never practiced family law who actually take
8:08
the bench. And without that experience, they
8:11
do a disservice. It takes a while to
8:13
learn it. There are a lot of classes
8:15
that should be offered in training and so
8:17
many cases before the family court bench should
8:19
have been done by
8:21
a lawyer before they become a judge, that
8:23
doesn't happen. So there's a learning curve and
8:26
families get caught in it. And Dr. Sophie,
8:28
when you do a study, you'll
8:30
send a social worker out to
8:32
do a home study. You'll
8:35
evaluate the parents and people get
8:37
confused. This isn't about who's the
8:39
best parent. It's whether either parent
8:41
is suitable, right? Right, but it's
8:43
also is that child being abused
8:46
or neglected? And that's what you need,
8:48
expert eyes on these children. And in
8:50
LA, we put a system together. So
8:52
those children are seen by expert eyes
8:54
as they enter the system, by a
8:56
mental health expert and a physical expert
8:58
who can evaluate a bruise or an
9:00
evaluate the story so that they can
9:02
give the judge the information. A judge
9:04
is not a doctor. Do
9:06
judges listen? No, not a lot of
9:08
the time they don't. Why? Because
9:11
they don't wanna believe it sometimes. It's hard,
9:13
they see a mother standing there saying, did
9:15
you really hurt your kid? And they wanna
9:17
give that parent another chance, but that one
9:19
chance is when that kid could die. And
9:22
Loni, you said half the time, even
9:25
when they determine that there is
9:27
abuse happening by a
9:29
parent, they still award
9:31
custody to that parent in
9:33
unsupervised visitation. Yeah, I really
9:36
think that the system overall is failing
9:38
the children. The basic rule of family
9:40
law court is in the best interest
9:42
of the child. But what does that
9:44
mean? How does that actually be enacted?
9:46
And that's what we really need to look at. Well,
9:51
I'm trained in forensic psychology
9:53
and I've been appointed by the court
9:56
a number of times. And if I
9:58
didn't... have a judge
10:01
listening to what I
10:03
said, I stood up
10:05
and said, what the hell'd you send me out there
10:07
for if you're not gonna listen to what I said?
10:09
I've written a report and now you're gonna just arbitrarily
10:12
make a decision? I wasn't
10:14
real popular with the judges when I did that.
10:17
You have to have professionals that will
10:19
stand up for their work, right? You
10:22
do, but not in every state. And we
10:24
get experts when and if we need them,
10:26
a lot of people can't afford and the
10:28
system's not built to pay for those expert
10:30
opinions. And I wanna talk
10:33
about what you just said, it's in the best interest
10:35
of the children, not the parents. And
10:37
the children really get lost in the system
10:39
because judges don't spend enough time listening to
10:41
the children, the children know what's going on.
10:44
And because of age or other
10:46
issues, they don't believe them. And
10:49
so the children get caught in the middle.
10:51
Listening to the children and
10:54
talking to the experts, that's where the
10:56
judges should get their information. Exactly. And
10:58
when I was appointed, I saw
11:01
myself in the role as an ad litem for
11:03
the children. And I would
11:06
say the parents' lawyer, please
11:09
cross examine me. Please
11:12
cross examine me because you're not gonna
11:14
like the answers. And
11:16
cross examination is the greatest truth
11:18
teller. Cross examination should occur every
11:20
time. Yeah, I invited it. And
11:23
it usually went a lot shorter
11:25
than they thought because they started
11:27
asking questions they didn't like the answer to. And
11:30
there's like, I withdraw the question. No, you
11:32
ask it, I'm gonna answer it. All right,
11:34
later tonight, we're going to meet a father
11:37
who says CPS did nothing to help him
11:39
when he discovered his daughter was locked in
11:41
a basement. 14 hours
11:44
at a time. But first, we'll talk
11:46
to RJ who says he spent nearly half
11:48
of his life in family court because
11:50
his parents were at war. We'll
11:53
add him to the conversation next. Sleep
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year old RJ says he spent half of
13:59
his life in. in family courtroom where he
14:01
was given no voice and
14:04
a judge that was biased against his mother.
14:07
I would describe the family court treatment of
14:10
my mom as unjust. I was
14:12
in my dad's custody for five years. When I
14:14
would talk to my dad about wanting to live
14:16
with my mom, he'd say he would rather send
14:18
us to foster care. For periods of time it
14:21
was abusive. He would just start yelling at me
14:23
and start getting physical, pushing and grabbing for the
14:25
most part. And then he was also an alcoholic.
14:27
So there were multiple nights where he'd drink too
14:29
much and there were a few
14:31
nights where he forgot who we were. DCF
14:34
had gotten involved in our
14:36
case multiple times and they
14:38
ended up substantiating him for neglect, but
14:41
that didn't change anything. Before
14:43
I ran away to live with
14:45
my mom, he verbally disowned me. He said, you're
14:47
not my son. And then after
14:49
he had passed, I found out he wrote me out of the
14:52
will. I have no relationship with
14:54
my siblings. They had told me
14:56
multiple times they resented me for leaving them
14:58
behind, so I did feel guilt. I think
15:00
the family court process has impacted me negatively
15:02
in a lot of ways. I think it
15:04
made me mature at a young age when
15:07
I should have just been having fun as
15:09
a kid. I think it causes
15:12
a decent amount of trauma. And
15:14
then I think it also just gave me a lack of
15:16
trust. Did
15:18
the judge ever sit down and talk to
15:20
you? No, never. For the most part, it
15:22
would be GALs and therapists. And by the
15:24
time I was 14, I had already ran
15:26
away. So I wasn't involved as much.
15:29
But no officer of the
15:31
court ever sat down with you and said, talk
15:34
to me about what you want to do,
15:36
what you think is going on, what's best
15:38
in your life. Outside of therapists and GALs,
15:40
no. No, I know
15:42
you. That'd be the first thing you'd
15:44
do, right? Absolutely, you have to
15:46
give the children a voice. You
15:49
said the judge was biased against your mom. How do you
15:51
know that? Just some
15:53
of the rulings she did when
15:55
I was younger, she
15:58
held my mom and we were black males. and we
16:00
were told she wouldn't be released until
16:03
we went back with her dad. But
16:06
you only know that from what your mom
16:08
told you. No, so there was a hearing
16:10
that day. My mom got taken
16:12
into police custody at the hearing. My
16:14
dad and the GAL drove from Hartford
16:16
to Glastonbury, which is like roughly 15
16:18
minutes away, came to the house because we
16:20
were with our mom staying with her, but she
16:23
went to the hearing, and we were told that
16:25
she wouldn't be released. Judges
16:27
don't just put people in jail. I
16:30
suspect there was a contempt of court, perhaps
16:33
for not returning the children or other
16:35
behavior, and that's why she was
16:38
put in jail. And
16:40
it's sad to me that any of the kids
16:42
know about the facts of this case because
16:45
the children should not be involved. This is
16:47
a marriage that was dissolved between two adults,
16:49
and they should both facilitate a positive relationship
16:52
between the children and the other parent, and
16:54
the children should not know what's going on
16:56
in court. So I have a problem with
16:58
that. And you know, Dr. Phil,
17:00
there's another professional in this mix, which is the
17:03
children's social worker who has a whole nother point
17:05
of view, and that could differ
17:07
or agree with the judge. Right,
17:10
and you mentioned GAL, that's guardian ad
17:12
litem. Yes, correct. And a
17:14
guardian ad litem, by the way, is someone that
17:16
is appointed by the court who
17:18
has no duty to
17:21
either parent whatsoever. They have
17:23
an undivided loyalty to
17:25
the child, supposedly. I
17:28
mean, that's the theory. And that's supposed
17:30
to be the role of the Department
17:32
of Child and Family Services as
17:34
well, right? To protect the interest of the child.
17:36
But oftentimes it's not. Well, it's hard sometimes for
17:38
them to serve their best interest because if
17:42
they take them out of the home and
17:44
they can't go to another family member and
17:47
they put them into foster care. But
17:50
that's why I put a system in place.
17:52
We don't take a kid out of a
17:54
home until we have a real reason, an
17:56
expert's opinion, that it's abuse or neglect. Otherwise, if
17:58
we break a family. it's
18:01
really difficult getting back together. All
18:03
right, coming up, we're gonna meet RJ's mom who
18:06
says her 15 year custody battle destroyed
18:08
her and she blames
18:10
two people and she'll tell
18:12
us who next. Lori
18:14
says her 15 year custody battle
18:17
for her four children destroyed her
18:19
family and she blames it
18:21
all on the woman behind
18:23
the bench. I
18:25
do blame the court for breaking up my family. 2006,
18:31
my ex-husband filed for divorce. Then he
18:33
filed to change custody of my children.
18:35
We were in the family court for
18:37
15 years. Different
18:39
judges, one is known
18:42
for ruling against women. He
18:44
gave my ex-husband custody, he
18:46
gave me visitation, so
18:48
I would have to be able to pick the
18:50
children up from school, three o'clock, but
18:52
I worked until five. The order
18:54
made no sense because it basically
18:57
rendered me unemployed. I
18:59
ended up resigning, losing my job. They
19:01
just stacked the deck against me. In
19:05
2015, my four younger children decided
19:09
they weren't gonna go back to their
19:11
father's house. My ex-husband showed up and
19:13
they refused to go. He
19:15
called our town police. I ended
19:17
up being arrested for custodial interference.
19:20
I was found guilty. They
19:22
sentenced me 90 days and
19:24
they took me off to prison that
19:26
morning. I have no memory
19:29
from then until I arrived in the prison.
19:31
So, oh my gosh, I'm getting so emotional. Can
19:34
we take a break? I
19:36
felt that my ex-husband was alienating the
19:39
children from me. He wouldn't let
19:41
me talk to them. He would hang up the
19:43
phone. They still don't speak to me. I
19:46
feel victimized by the family court. I
19:48
don't know how a mother can lose
19:50
so many years of their children's lives
19:53
and not be a victim. There's
19:59
three things I say. a lot
20:01
when it involves children. And one is you
20:05
never involve children in adult issues.
20:08
Number two, you don't ever hold children responsible
20:10
for things they don't control. And
20:13
the third thing I say a lot is you
20:16
don't ever want
20:19
to invite the government into your life. I
20:22
agree with that. I've heard you
20:24
say before, you need to love your
20:26
child more than you hate your ex
20:28
or your spouse or whatever, that's critical,
20:30
right? It's absolutely right. To
20:32
be a fit parent and for a judge
20:34
to make that decision on your behalf, you
20:37
have to love your children more than you
20:39
hate the other parent. They cannot be used
20:41
as pawns. You cannot groom them
20:43
to say what you want. Judges figure it out
20:45
and if they don't, an expert will. And
20:48
it's just not in the best interest of the child. Why
20:51
do you think that this judge
20:54
was out to get you? Why
20:57
do you think this whole thing
20:59
spun out of control to
21:02
your detriment? My ex-husband and I were
21:04
wealthy. So I think that wealthy
21:07
families have more of those
21:09
funds to spend on the
21:11
experts and the evaluations and things like
21:14
that. So I think that was part
21:16
of it. That's part of it, ma'am.
21:18
Let me just say that a high conflict case
21:21
is one where there are children that you're fighting
21:23
over. Has nothing to do with money. They would
21:25
not have looked at your bank book. So
21:27
I'm sorry, but I think your premise is not
21:30
right. Yet somewhere you lost the best interest
21:32
of your kids. I necessarily think it was
21:34
the judge, but I do think that the
21:37
lawyers now, and I
21:39
do think that they can induce some
21:41
conflict. My husband and I didn't get
21:43
along, but we did get divorced by
21:45
agreement. I'm not saying that we got
21:47
along great, but after we
21:49
were divorced, we did spend our first
21:51
Christmas together. So we're not these
21:54
people who were just at each other's throats.
21:56
So why all the conflict then? I think
21:58
my husband did. He'd hate me more than
22:00
he loved our children. And
22:02
to see me grow and
22:05
to be able to move beyond the
22:07
marriage I think really
22:09
upset him. And I also think it
22:11
was, the decisions of
22:13
the court were very hard for both of us
22:15
to live with. Well, the judge said
22:17
the kids would stay
22:19
with the father and
22:22
sent you to jail. Correct. And
22:25
that's a pretty radical position for a
22:27
judge to take. There is a presumption
22:30
that children should have their mother in their
22:32
life. Unless there is a profound
22:35
reason for there not to be. And for a
22:37
judge to say, nope, kids are going with the
22:39
father and you're going to jail. Right.
22:42
Now that doesn't just happen out of the blue.
22:45
Why did the judge do that? So
22:47
it's two separate incidents. So there was
22:49
a big push in Connecticut
22:51
at that time for father's rights. The
22:53
judge switched the custody. I
22:56
had returned to work. My husband was
22:58
unemployed. I do think there was some-
23:00
You said you were wealthy. We were when we
23:03
started. Five years in, that was diminishing.
23:05
Why did you go to jail? When
23:07
the children refused to go to their father, DCF
23:09
placed them with my mother. And
23:12
I was charged that day, which
23:14
when at that point there was
23:16
a DCF investigation launched and he
23:18
was substantiated for neglect. So
23:20
I was giving my children a voice. They spoke
23:22
to experts. Why did you go to jail
23:24
for 58 days? Fast forward 2017, those
23:30
charges came about. They
23:32
wanted me to take a deal to nullify
23:35
the charges. I didn't take
23:37
the deal, went to trial, and I was found
23:39
guilty of the soty interference. You
23:41
didn't return the children when you were
23:43
supposed to. That's contempt of court. Did
23:45
you say let's walk out to dad's
23:47
car? Did you try anything like that?
23:49
I did encourage them at the time.
23:51
How did you encourage them? I
23:54
said, your father's here, it's time to go. But
23:56
they were telling me that their father was drinking.
23:59
So, He said he was going to call the
24:01
police, and I said, please do, because
24:03
of what the children were
24:05
saying. And in that process, DCF did
24:07
investigate and did substantiate neglect because he
24:09
did have an alcohol problem. But if
24:11
you didn't- Okay, wait, wait, look. I've
24:13
said, you don't wanna go
24:16
to the court. You don't wanna get in
24:18
the court system because there are rules there
24:20
and you're gonna have to follow them, or
24:22
they will take you out of the game.
24:24
They will take you off the game board
24:26
and put your children sometimes where they don't
24:28
belong. The judge says there
24:30
are holes in that story because she
24:33
entered the game and then didn't play the
24:35
game by the court's rules. We'll talk about
24:37
that next. The October
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aggressive steps. Take control today. Visit
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tnusa.com, slash Dr. Phil, or
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call 1-800-958-1000. How
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It's like going to work on one
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Thursday morning and thinking to yourself, just
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somebody in the elevator says, happy Friday.
25:53
Then you check your phone quickly
25:56
and discover today is actually Friday.
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in the elevator, happy Friday indeed.
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Yep, switching and saving with Geico
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feels just like that. Get more
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with Geico. Now,
26:09
we actually talked to the court and
26:12
got an opinion on
26:15
Laurie's case. One of
26:17
the quotes was, parties continue
26:19
relentless litigation, have
26:21
been either unemployed or underemployed
26:24
for the past few years.
26:26
Their demands of their
26:28
continued litigation. Given
26:30
the party's repetitive and consistent
26:33
returns to court, the court
26:35
has become an unintended chronicle
26:37
of the family's post dissolution
26:40
functioning. Brimming
26:42
with decisions of the defendant
26:45
that continue to display poor
26:47
judgment. That's referring to you.
26:50
What do you read into that? The court
26:52
was tired of the fighting. The court gives
26:54
a strong message when it uses that kind
26:56
of language. It tells me also that when
26:58
they say that defendant was making
27:00
poor decisions, that she probably did not have
27:03
legal custody for that reason and the
27:05
court continued to see poor judgment. And
27:08
so the fighting was ongoing and they
27:10
made a point to put all of
27:12
those things there, sending a hopeful message,
27:14
which the parties never got. Would
27:16
you do this different? Yes. How?
27:20
Less of that. As a older, wiser
27:23
person, I would tell my younger
27:25
self to let the
27:27
small stuff go. It's not worth it. And
27:29
I would be in a very different place if I had done that.
27:32
Yeah, and you
27:34
gotta pick your battles. And there comes a time
27:37
where you gotta pick up the phone and
27:39
call your partner, your ex,
27:42
and say, hey, this
27:44
isn't good for RJ, this isn't good for
27:46
the others. And if you
27:49
break this down and look at why
27:51
you lost custody, the
27:54
court's position is failure
27:57
to protect, educational
27:59
neglect. consistent violations
28:01
of court orders, inability to
28:04
foster positive relationships between children
28:06
and other parent, and
28:09
displays bad judgment. You
28:12
gave them ammunition. And
28:15
I know the story
28:17
behind every one of those and
28:19
could make a great argument on
28:22
your parts. And I mean that
28:24
sincerely, but you give them ammunition.
28:26
Right. And your
28:29
ex is not here, and
28:31
I could make a list to fill all
28:33
three of these screens
28:36
for criticisms of
28:39
him and his contribution. And none
28:41
of it is in the best interest of the children.
28:43
Correct. That's the problem. My
28:45
ex-husband would disagree, but
28:47
I felt he was alienating me
28:49
from the children. He felt I
28:51
was alienating him from the children.
28:54
And we really needed some co-parenting,
28:56
which I always asked for, and
28:58
he would not participate. I remember one
29:00
therapist telling me, you want
29:03
to give your children free range chicken,
29:05
and your ex-husband is giving them Cheetos,
29:07
and that's okay. And it takes
29:09
a while for that to be okay. And
29:12
it was just analogous of all
29:14
the things that you have expectations that you
29:17
want met, and they're not, which was a
29:19
lot of the bickering. Right, because you just,
29:21
can you just not be them Cheetos? We
29:23
didn't go to court over Cheetos, but
29:26
it was. Day on air. We did
29:29
not. So, but we did. That's not the
29:31
only thing. Right, we did go to court
29:33
over little league schedules and soccer schedules, and
29:35
that stuff, I wanted it for my children.
29:38
And in the moment, it's like, this is what's best for
29:40
them, but the fighting. Yes, that's
29:42
what you did then. Right, I wanted them
29:44
to have a great life, but fighting with
29:46
their father was more detrimental
29:49
than missing little league. And
29:52
that does have lifelong impact on the
29:54
children. Right. And here are
29:56
literally pawns being thrown back and forth between
29:58
the two people they're supposed to trust. and
30:00
who were supposed to be protecting them from
30:02
all of this. When I did go to
30:04
battle, or actually go, it was over him
30:06
drinking and passing out and the children putting
30:08
themselves to bed and stories coming
30:10
from all four children and I was married
30:13
to him, so I knew that this was
30:15
not Barbette. Yes, that's allegedly. Yes, but you
30:17
would jump in and help them with their
30:19
father. That would have been better. Right. We
30:22
have to stop and take a break here. What
30:25
you just said about your ex-husband is allegedly
30:27
he's not here to defend
30:29
himself as he's passed away. Yes, yes.
30:31
And I do want to
30:33
give you the final word, RJ. I
30:36
mean, yeah, it was just my dad was given a
30:38
lot of power by the family court because he did
30:40
hate my mom. He wanted to see her miserable. He
30:43
told me that multiple times growing up and I think
30:45
that was dangerous and it also sucked for
30:47
me and my siblings. Unrelated to our parents
30:49
is that all the professionals involved gave us no
30:51
say. They kept saying, once you turn 12, you
30:53
get a say. Once you turn 13, they kept
30:55
pushing it back and it got to
30:57
the point where I took it into my own hands. Me
31:00
and my dad physically fought, the police got involved and I
31:02
was given to my mom. And then a
31:04
couple of years later is when she went to jail and I
31:06
was just left there. The state of
31:08
Connecticut didn't send anyone. She never came
31:10
home. I came home from school. No
31:13
one was there. Luckily she had friends and family, but
31:16
if she didn't, I would have been on my
31:18
own at 15. Right.
31:21
So I have no relationship with my siblings. They
31:23
won't talk to me because my dad didn't alienate
31:25
them from us. After
31:28
I ran away, I was able to go see my dad. They
31:30
weren't allowed to see us. And you're open
31:32
to seeing your siblings if they were open to
31:34
seeing you. Absolutely, I've reached out to them countless
31:37
times. It's basically at the point where I
31:39
just have to wait until they reach
31:41
out to me. You said all this time
31:43
in court, you never had a
31:45
voice. That's why I wanted you to have the final
31:47
word here. Thank you. When we come
31:49
back, we'll meet a
31:52
father who says the family court was
31:54
intentionally trying to put him on
31:56
track to be a deadbeat dad. We'll
31:59
find out what he means. by that when we come
32:01
back. Jason says his eight year
32:03
custody battle nearly killed him but
32:06
that he would do anything for his daughter.
32:10
Family court was the toughest
32:12
fight of my life. My daughter's
32:15
mother and I, we split, so
32:17
I retained an attorney and
32:20
filed for custody. My
32:22
concerns about my daughter being in my
32:24
ex's custody were first and foremost safety.
32:27
Boo. There
32:29
was a history of prescription, pill use
32:32
and other recreational drugs. You
32:35
like it? I
32:38
wasn't happy with the outcome of the custody. I
32:40
was treated like a deadbeat dad. I
32:44
expressed my concerns and they were dismissed. The
32:48
first time I noticed something that seemed weird
32:50
was September of 16. On
32:52
her leg, she had bruising which
32:55
was identical to someone grabbing. From
32:57
there on out, it was getting more regularly, like every
33:00
couple of weeks. It wasn't until her hand was slammed
33:02
on a door that action really
33:04
seemed to take place. All
33:06
five digits were lacerated, fractured
33:08
knuckle, two jammed
33:10
fingers. My attorney filed a
33:13
motion. A friend of the court ruled that
33:15
I would be primary. I
33:17
had people saying to me like, you can't keep spending this money. Do
33:20
you think I'd give a f*** about $7,500 if my daughter dies? I
33:24
can go make more money. And I'm
33:26
not rich by any means, but
33:29
I don't know if I'd, I
33:33
wouldn't be able to look at myself or
33:37
forgive myself. Jason,
33:41
what do you think the courts could
33:44
have done differently with your case?
33:46
I think the courts could have paid
33:50
attention to the evidence held
33:53
true to their word. The initial
33:55
conciliation when I filed custody, it's
33:57
not very evidentiary. It
34:01
was he said, she said, and I
34:03
was treated like a deadbeat dad, which
34:05
was shocking because that
34:08
wasn't how I saw myself, but
34:11
that was how the conciliar saw it. You
34:14
actually came to
34:17
get help from Judge Aquilina, right? I've
34:19
known Judge Aquilina now for almost 20
34:21
years, and when I'd
34:24
be at the courthouse, I'd see if she was in
34:26
her chambers, we'd have coffee, and I'd
34:29
end up just crying on her
34:32
shoulder basically, and she always lent
34:34
a gentle ear, was very diplomatic, and
34:37
just kept telling me to stay in the fight. And
34:40
what was the toughest thing that you saw him
34:42
having to face and deal with, Judge? There
34:45
were orders, things that he didn't want to
34:47
do, and I said, Jason, no matter what
34:49
the court orders, the court doesn't always get
34:51
it right. You have
34:53
to follow the orders, and the court
34:55
will eventually see that you are the
34:58
fit parent and the custodial parent, but
35:00
it's going to take some time. And
35:02
he sobbed at that because he was
35:04
not happy with some of the decisions, but
35:07
he, too, the letter, followed
35:09
the orders of the court and eventually
35:11
got his daughter. And
35:13
that's hard when
35:17
you're in a situation where
35:19
you have physical photographic
35:21
evidence that
35:24
it's like you say a
35:27
blind person can see these
35:30
are not fall-down bruises,
35:32
these fit fingerprint
35:34
patterns. You can see exactly
35:37
how this happens. And
35:40
Dr. Sophie, how many times
35:42
have you looked at this kind of thing? A million
35:44
times, tells the story right there. It's the
35:46
whole story. And when somebody
35:48
ignores that, that's the problem. And
35:51
thank heavens Jason had the advice that you
35:53
gave him, most people don't get that advice.
35:56
And they are so desperate. I was
35:58
in the criminal justice system. for
36:00
20 years, crazy things happened
36:02
to me. I had one person I prosecuted threatened
36:04
to kill me and my son and found my
36:06
son's middle school to kill him. I
36:08
had someone, as I was given a closing argument, attack
36:11
me in the courtroom in front of the jury
36:13
with a shiv he had made and hidden up
36:15
a body cavity. Crazy things happened at the criminal
36:17
courthouse, but I always maintained
36:20
that crazier things happen in the
36:22
family courts because things
36:24
happen that seem so unfair and so
36:26
unjust and you have these parents who
36:28
become so desperate and emotional
36:30
and volatile and it becomes very
36:33
unstable. And so that's why
36:35
there needs to be a spotlight on this,
36:37
right, it becomes very volatile. Family court is
36:39
the most, as you've just outlined, the most
36:41
dangerous court we have. It is.
36:45
You can divide a bank account, but
36:47
you can't divide a child. Right. What
36:49
did you say to yourself along the way and
36:51
how did you keep
36:54
control? I
36:56
think I realized, one, I
36:58
don't have a lot of control over anything. I had to
37:00
follow the order. I would pray for my ex that
37:03
she would be a fit mother. It wasn't about me. It
37:06
was about my daughter having a fit and
37:08
healthy mom. I kept trying to do the
37:10
next right thing and it was hard.
37:14
And every time I dropped her off, I would
37:16
just pray, but she'd come
37:19
back safely. You
37:21
were concerned not just by what your
37:23
ex was doing and what you
37:25
were seeing evidence of, but that she was being
37:28
exposed to some dangerous
37:30
situations. Yes, my daughter's
37:32
mother got married after we were not
37:35
together anymore and I would
37:37
do a background check because the number one molesters
37:41
of children are the new boyfriend
37:43
or husband of the mom. So
37:45
I was mindful of that. Well,
37:47
you bring up that there's risk there
37:50
with these men and
37:53
the statistics tell us that the
37:56
likelihood of sexual molestation or abuse
37:58
with a non-biological. male in the
38:00
home is 33 times normal.
38:04
Yep. Yep. And
38:06
the likelihood of a child being
38:08
killed by a
38:10
non-biological male is 100 times
38:13
normal. Non-biological
38:16
married parents is 9X,
38:20
bioparents unmarried, 5X,
38:22
single parent cohabiting 20X. There's
38:25
nothing safer for a child than
38:29
biological parents living together.
38:32
Now your concerns
38:36
were not unfounded because your
38:39
ex was ultimately murdered. Yes.
38:42
Correct? Yes. There was a
38:45
final text message from
38:47
your ex to you
38:50
which reads,
38:53
please tell my daughter I
38:55
love her. So it
38:57
was over a year that my daughter hadn't
38:59
seen her mom before her life
39:02
was taken. And
39:04
delivering her that news was tough. Yeah,
39:09
that's not an easy thing for a child
39:11
to hear for you or for you to
39:13
deliver either one. My
39:15
final thoughts after the break.
39:18
You were concerned about choices that
39:20
your daughter's mother
39:22
was making. Yes. Sure
39:25
enough, she
39:27
wound up tragically being murdered. And
39:30
you could share what your daughter said when you told her.
39:33
So we were at State of the School that night. I
39:35
got the message right before we walked into the school that
39:37
they found my daughter's mother. And
39:41
I kind of white knuckled through the evening and we were
39:43
walking in the car and my daughter could tell I was upset. And
39:46
I said, yeah, they
39:48
found your mom and she's not with us anymore. And
39:51
she ugly cried and said I don't want my mom
39:53
to be dead. So
39:55
we went to this spot down by the river
39:57
on Michigan State's campus. Sat on a bench.
40:03
I told her my
40:08
best memory was of her mom. I
40:10
knew what was
40:12
coming next. My
40:19
daughter was angry with her mother, and
40:21
we've had to deal with that. So working
40:23
through some coping skills to
40:26
forgive herself, that writing
40:28
letters to her mom and some
40:31
other things to
40:33
heal that. And how's your
40:36
daughter doing now? She's awesome. She's
40:38
the best. I think your daughter won the dad
40:40
lottery. Yeah. Thank
40:43
you. A
40:51
final thought is, this is not a popularity contest,
40:55
whether you're parenting a
40:57
child together or
40:59
whether you're breaking
41:01
up a marriage. You can't
41:03
divorce your children. You
41:06
may divorce their other
41:08
parent, but you will forever
41:11
be their parents. And you may think, well, I'm
41:13
going to get them to like me best now. But
41:16
I promise you, if
41:19
you alienate them from the
41:22
other parent, the day will come, they'll look
41:24
at you and say, why
41:28
did you put distance between me
41:31
and my
41:33
mother or father? Why
41:35
did you do that? You
41:37
didn't need to blow out her
41:39
candle to make yours burn brighter.
41:42
You didn't need to blow out his
41:44
candle to make yours burn brighter. And
41:46
they will resent you for it. And
41:48
it's interesting, we have two parents here,
41:52
whose exes are both
41:54
deceased. There are bells
41:56
that you can't unring. You
41:58
can't go back and fix those things. Now, next
42:01
time you think, well, I'll take you to
42:03
court by God. You
42:06
may wish you hadn't. Thank you for
42:08
having this important conversation. It's all information
42:10
that people need to know and nobody
42:13
wants to talk about. And
42:15
thank both of y'all for coming here
42:17
in Sheridan. RJ, thanks for speaking up.
42:19
I wanna thank Judge Rosemary Aquilina, Dr.
42:22
Charles Stofie, Lonnie Coombs, all of my
42:24
guests today. And thank
42:26
you at home for watching because here
42:28
at Dr. Phil Primetime and at Merritt
42:30
Street Media, we're gonna
42:32
continue to focus on the issues that
42:34
we're all facing in our society. And
42:37
boy, do we
42:39
have issues. We
42:41
do. My
42:43
new book, surprisingly, is entitled,
42:46
We've Got Issues, How All
42:48
Americans Can Stand Strong for Our
42:50
Country's Soul and Sanity. And
42:52
it's on sale now everywhere books
42:55
are sold. Thank you for making
42:57
it my 10th New
42:59
York Times bestseller. We will
43:01
have even more information about tonight's episode
43:04
on our website. So make sure to
43:06
log on to drphil.com. Thank
43:08
you. We'll see you next time. How
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Imports. Luxury. On sale. This is
44:08
one Black Friday used car sales
44:10
event you can't afford to miss.
44:12
Hurry to the Auto Nation store
44:15
near you today or shop now
44:17
at autonation.com.
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