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The Dangers of Family Court

The Dangers of Family Court

Released Friday, 29th November 2024
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The Dangers of Family Court

The Dangers of Family Court

The Dangers of Family Court

The Dangers of Family Court

Friday, 29th November 2024
Good episode? Give it some love!
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Episode Transcript

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0:00

In the dry states of the Southwest,

0:02

there's a group that's been denied a

0:04

basic human right. In the Navajo Nation

0:07

today, a third of our households don't

0:09

have running water. But that's not something

0:11

they chose for themselves. Can the Navajo

0:14

people reclaim their right to water and

0:16

contend with the government's legacy of control

0:18

and neglect? Our water, our

0:21

beauty, our water, our beauty.

0:24

That's in the next season of

0:26

Reclaimed, the lifeblood of Navajo Nation.

0:28

Listen now wherever you get your

0:30

podcasts. One

0:59

chance is when that kid could die. Tonight

1:10

we're talking about something that could

1:12

affect half of America. That

1:15

means you. So

1:18

listen up because what you learn

1:20

could change your life and

1:22

that of the people you love the most. When

1:26

the traditional family breaks down, everything

1:29

starts unraveling. Let's

1:31

look a little deeper at what's

1:33

happening, starting with some stunning numbers

1:36

on marriage and family in America. In

1:40

1960, at the height of the baby

1:42

boom, after World War II,

1:44

5% of children were born to unwed

1:46

parents. By

1:49

1980, that number tripled, reaching

1:51

18%. In 2016, a

1:54

whopping 40% of children

1:57

in the U.S. were born to women who were

1:59

single mothers. or living

2:01

with a non-marital partner. Now

2:04

let's talk about divorce. According

2:06

to the CDC in 2021, a

2:10

total of 689,308 divorces occurred across

2:15

the United States. Many will head to

2:17

family court. In family courts,

2:20

the matter of custody is generally viewed

2:22

as a he said, she said. And

2:26

boy, can it get ugly when

2:28

parents use their children as pawns

2:30

when they use them as a rope in a tug of war.

2:34

These custody cases reveal a

2:36

national crisis in the

2:38

family court system that regularly,

2:42

all too regularly misses warning signs

2:44

that exposes too many children to

2:46

abuse and in

2:48

fact, death. Now 22 year

2:50

old RJ says he and his siblings were

2:53

in a 15 year tug of

2:55

war between his mother and

2:57

father and the family court, well,

3:00

he says they just made it worse. My

3:03

two protectors should have been my mom and dad, but

3:06

they were both fighting in family court. So I

3:08

was caught in the middle of it with my

3:10

siblings. We were on our own. Me

3:12

and my siblings definitely felt helpless. We felt like

3:14

we had no power. You

3:19

know, children get caught in the middle of this.

3:21

They pick up the tab for

3:23

the parents fight. And RJ

3:25

says he was collateral damage of

3:27

a broken system that failed

3:30

him. And we're gonna meet

3:32

he and his mother later and

3:34

find out why the judge on their

3:37

case sent his mother to jail. But

3:39

first, I sent former

3:41

Los Angeles criminal prosecutor and

3:43

now our co-anchor of

3:45

news on Merritt Street, Lonnie Coombs on

3:48

an assignment. She says she

3:50

is very passionate about his

3:52

lady justice failing families throughout

3:54

America. Yeah, thank

3:56

you, Dr. Phil. You know, we see

3:59

these appalling headlines. a Colorado mom suspected

4:01

of killing her two kids. She was

4:03

days away from losing them to her

4:05

ex in a custody battle. A

4:08

divorced father allegedly sets his home

4:10

on fire, killing his three

4:12

children inside while their mother was at

4:14

work. A mom in the midst

4:17

of a custody battle drowns her

4:19

kids in a murder suicide. But

4:21

you know, Dr. Phil, as horrific as

4:23

these headlines are, they still

4:25

don't give the full story. Every

4:29

six days, a child dies amid

4:31

custody fights and family court lapses.

4:34

Even more sobering, since 2008, 984

4:37

children were killed by a parental figure. Family

4:42

courts involved in these cases often miss

4:44

the signs of trouble. Research

4:47

suggests that the emphasis on prioritizing

4:49

parental visitation, even in cases where

4:51

abuse is present, put

4:53

kids at risk. Kids become pawns in

4:56

a divorced tug of war. Every

4:59

year, 58,000 children sent pursuant

5:01

to a custody order or for

5:03

unprotected visitation end up with

5:06

abusers. In fact, nearly half

5:08

of custody evaluators still recommend

5:10

unsupervised visits despite reports of

5:13

family violence. In 2020, more than 588,000

5:15

kids were

5:18

victims of abuse or neglect. In

5:21

2019, more than 672,000 kids spent

5:25

time in foster care in the US. And

5:28

statistics suggest that about 1 third of

5:31

the children placed in foster care are

5:33

abused. All of this is

5:35

evidence that the system meant to protect

5:37

our kids is broken. Well,

5:41

those numbers are shocking. What

5:43

it amounts to is the fact that

5:45

hundreds of thousands of children are

5:48

winding up at the hands of their abusers and

5:51

family courts are missing this.

5:54

Sometimes they're complicit in turning

5:56

these children over to

5:58

the abusers. When they have evidence,

6:00

right in front of them that

6:02

they're abusers. Now Lonnie

6:04

headed back to the courtroom to find

6:07

out why two fathers say their battle

6:09

for their children was like facing off

6:11

with an organized crime syndicate. Do

6:15

you feel that the system in

6:17

the family law courts is corrupt? Absolutely.

6:19

Yes. I would say it's

6:21

organized crime. It's like a mafia. I like to

6:24

call it the state sanctioned destruction of the family.

6:26

A parent can make a false allegation against

6:29

the other one, and they

6:31

immediately can go to court and get

6:33

a protective order, restraining order based on

6:35

that allegation. A lot of

6:37

people call them silver bullets because it

6:39

only takes one to basically win

6:42

custody. How much has this whole process

6:44

ended up costing you financially? Two and

6:46

a half years ago, I quit

6:48

keeping track, and two and a half years ago it was

6:50

about $700,000. Overall,

6:53

I lost about three and a half years with

6:55

my children. We would like

6:57

audio and video cameras added to

6:59

the courtrooms, and we would like

7:01

to lower the immunity barrier. Currently,

7:03

judges have absolute immunity, and

7:05

where there is no accountability, you're

7:08

gonna have corruption. Judges should actually

7:10

be held to a higher standard

7:12

instead of no standard at all.

7:18

Well, we have three high-powered pros

7:20

here tonight who know

7:22

how to navigate around the family

7:24

courtroom and the legal

7:26

system in general. Joining

7:29

Lonnie, our Michigan Circuit Court

7:31

Judge, Rosemarie Aquilina, she presides

7:33

over family and criminal court

7:35

cases. She was a

7:37

family law attorney for 20 years, and

7:40

also Dr. Charles Sofi. He has been

7:42

an expert on my show and a

7:44

member of my Blue Ribbon Advisory Board

7:46

for a number of years. He is

7:48

a psychiatrist, former medical director of the

7:50

Los Angeles County Department of Child and

7:52

Family Services. He's triple board certified. Now,

7:54

I've been talking about the fact that

7:56

the family court system is broken. Judge,

8:01

am I right? You're right.

8:03

There are a lot of judges who've

8:06

never practiced family law who actually take

8:08

the bench. And without that experience, they

8:11

do a disservice. It takes a while to

8:13

learn it. There are a lot of classes

8:15

that should be offered in training and so

8:17

many cases before the family court bench should

8:19

have been done by

8:21

a lawyer before they become a judge, that

8:23

doesn't happen. So there's a learning curve and

8:26

families get caught in it. And Dr. Sophie,

8:28

when you do a study, you'll

8:30

send a social worker out to

8:32

do a home study. You'll

8:35

evaluate the parents and people get

8:37

confused. This isn't about who's the

8:39

best parent. It's whether either parent

8:41

is suitable, right? Right, but it's

8:43

also is that child being abused

8:46

or neglected? And that's what you need,

8:48

expert eyes on these children. And in

8:50

LA, we put a system together. So

8:52

those children are seen by expert eyes

8:54

as they enter the system, by a

8:56

mental health expert and a physical expert

8:58

who can evaluate a bruise or an

9:00

evaluate the story so that they can

9:02

give the judge the information. A judge

9:04

is not a doctor. Do

9:06

judges listen? No, not a lot of

9:08

the time they don't. Why? Because

9:11

they don't wanna believe it sometimes. It's hard,

9:13

they see a mother standing there saying, did

9:15

you really hurt your kid? And they wanna

9:17

give that parent another chance, but that one

9:19

chance is when that kid could die. And

9:22

Loni, you said half the time, even

9:25

when they determine that there is

9:27

abuse happening by a

9:29

parent, they still award

9:31

custody to that parent in

9:33

unsupervised visitation. Yeah, I really

9:36

think that the system overall is failing

9:38

the children. The basic rule of family

9:40

law court is in the best interest

9:42

of the child. But what does that

9:44

mean? How does that actually be enacted?

9:46

And that's what we really need to look at. Well,

9:51

I'm trained in forensic psychology

9:53

and I've been appointed by the court

9:56

a number of times. And if I

9:58

didn't... have a judge

10:01

listening to what I

10:03

said, I stood up

10:05

and said, what the hell'd you send me out there

10:07

for if you're not gonna listen to what I said?

10:09

I've written a report and now you're gonna just arbitrarily

10:12

make a decision? I wasn't

10:14

real popular with the judges when I did that.

10:17

You have to have professionals that will

10:19

stand up for their work, right? You

10:22

do, but not in every state. And we

10:24

get experts when and if we need them,

10:26

a lot of people can't afford and the

10:28

system's not built to pay for those expert

10:30

opinions. And I wanna talk

10:33

about what you just said, it's in the best interest

10:35

of the children, not the parents. And

10:37

the children really get lost in the system

10:39

because judges don't spend enough time listening to

10:41

the children, the children know what's going on.

10:44

And because of age or other

10:46

issues, they don't believe them. And

10:49

so the children get caught in the middle.

10:51

Listening to the children and

10:54

talking to the experts, that's where the

10:56

judges should get their information. Exactly. And

10:58

when I was appointed, I saw

11:01

myself in the role as an ad litem for

11:03

the children. And I would

11:06

say the parents' lawyer, please

11:09

cross examine me. Please

11:12

cross examine me because you're not gonna

11:14

like the answers. And

11:16

cross examination is the greatest truth

11:18

teller. Cross examination should occur every

11:20

time. Yeah, I invited it. And

11:23

it usually went a lot shorter

11:25

than they thought because they started

11:27

asking questions they didn't like the answer to. And

11:30

there's like, I withdraw the question. No, you

11:32

ask it, I'm gonna answer it. All right,

11:34

later tonight, we're going to meet a father

11:37

who says CPS did nothing to help him

11:39

when he discovered his daughter was locked in

11:41

a basement. 14 hours

11:44

at a time. But first, we'll talk

11:46

to RJ who says he spent nearly half

11:48

of his life in family court because

11:50

his parents were at war. We'll

11:53

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13:57

year old RJ says he spent half of

13:59

his life in. in family courtroom where he

14:01

was given no voice and

14:04

a judge that was biased against his mother.

14:07

I would describe the family court treatment of

14:10

my mom as unjust. I was

14:12

in my dad's custody for five years. When I

14:14

would talk to my dad about wanting to live

14:16

with my mom, he'd say he would rather send

14:18

us to foster care. For periods of time it

14:21

was abusive. He would just start yelling at me

14:23

and start getting physical, pushing and grabbing for the

14:25

most part. And then he was also an alcoholic.

14:27

So there were multiple nights where he'd drink too

14:29

much and there were a few

14:31

nights where he forgot who we were. DCF

14:34

had gotten involved in our

14:36

case multiple times and they

14:38

ended up substantiating him for neglect, but

14:41

that didn't change anything. Before

14:43

I ran away to live with

14:45

my mom, he verbally disowned me. He said, you're

14:47

not my son. And then after

14:49

he had passed, I found out he wrote me out of the

14:52

will. I have no relationship with

14:54

my siblings. They had told me

14:56

multiple times they resented me for leaving them

14:58

behind, so I did feel guilt. I think

15:00

the family court process has impacted me negatively

15:02

in a lot of ways. I think it

15:04

made me mature at a young age when

15:07

I should have just been having fun as

15:09

a kid. I think it causes

15:12

a decent amount of trauma. And

15:14

then I think it also just gave me a lack of

15:16

trust. Did

15:18

the judge ever sit down and talk to

15:20

you? No, never. For the most part, it

15:22

would be GALs and therapists. And by the

15:24

time I was 14, I had already ran

15:26

away. So I wasn't involved as much.

15:29

But no officer of the

15:31

court ever sat down with you and said, talk

15:34

to me about what you want to do,

15:36

what you think is going on, what's best

15:38

in your life. Outside of therapists and GALs,

15:40

no. No, I know

15:42

you. That'd be the first thing you'd

15:44

do, right? Absolutely, you have to

15:46

give the children a voice. You

15:49

said the judge was biased against your mom. How do you

15:51

know that? Just some

15:53

of the rulings she did when

15:55

I was younger, she

15:58

held my mom and we were black males. and we

16:00

were told she wouldn't be released until

16:03

we went back with her dad. But

16:06

you only know that from what your mom

16:08

told you. No, so there was a hearing

16:10

that day. My mom got taken

16:12

into police custody at the hearing. My

16:14

dad and the GAL drove from Hartford

16:16

to Glastonbury, which is like roughly 15

16:18

minutes away, came to the house because we

16:20

were with our mom staying with her, but she

16:23

went to the hearing, and we were told that

16:25

she wouldn't be released. Judges

16:27

don't just put people in jail. I

16:30

suspect there was a contempt of court, perhaps

16:33

for not returning the children or other

16:35

behavior, and that's why she was

16:38

put in jail. And

16:40

it's sad to me that any of the kids

16:42

know about the facts of this case because

16:45

the children should not be involved. This is

16:47

a marriage that was dissolved between two adults,

16:49

and they should both facilitate a positive relationship

16:52

between the children and the other parent, and

16:54

the children should not know what's going on

16:56

in court. So I have a problem with

16:58

that. And you know, Dr. Phil,

17:00

there's another professional in this mix, which is the

17:03

children's social worker who has a whole nother point

17:05

of view, and that could differ

17:07

or agree with the judge. Right,

17:10

and you mentioned GAL, that's guardian ad

17:12

litem. Yes, correct. And a

17:14

guardian ad litem, by the way, is someone that

17:16

is appointed by the court who

17:18

has no duty to

17:21

either parent whatsoever. They have

17:23

an undivided loyalty to

17:25

the child, supposedly. I

17:28

mean, that's the theory. And that's supposed

17:30

to be the role of the Department

17:32

of Child and Family Services as

17:34

well, right? To protect the interest of the child.

17:36

But oftentimes it's not. Well, it's hard sometimes for

17:38

them to serve their best interest because if

17:42

they take them out of the home and

17:44

they can't go to another family member and

17:47

they put them into foster care. But

17:50

that's why I put a system in place.

17:52

We don't take a kid out of a

17:54

home until we have a real reason, an

17:56

expert's opinion, that it's abuse or neglect. Otherwise, if

17:58

we break a family. it's

18:01

really difficult getting back together. All

18:03

right, coming up, we're gonna meet RJ's mom who

18:06

says her 15 year custody battle destroyed

18:08

her and she blames

18:10

two people and she'll tell

18:12

us who next. Lori

18:14

says her 15 year custody battle

18:17

for her four children destroyed her

18:19

family and she blames it

18:21

all on the woman behind

18:23

the bench. I

18:25

do blame the court for breaking up my family. 2006,

18:31

my ex-husband filed for divorce. Then he

18:33

filed to change custody of my children.

18:35

We were in the family court for

18:37

15 years. Different

18:39

judges, one is known

18:42

for ruling against women. He

18:44

gave my ex-husband custody, he

18:46

gave me visitation, so

18:48

I would have to be able to pick the

18:50

children up from school, three o'clock, but

18:52

I worked until five. The order

18:54

made no sense because it basically

18:57

rendered me unemployed. I

18:59

ended up resigning, losing my job. They

19:01

just stacked the deck against me. In

19:05

2015, my four younger children decided

19:09

they weren't gonna go back to their

19:11

father's house. My ex-husband showed up and

19:13

they refused to go. He

19:15

called our town police. I ended

19:17

up being arrested for custodial interference.

19:20

I was found guilty. They

19:22

sentenced me 90 days and

19:24

they took me off to prison that

19:26

morning. I have no memory

19:29

from then until I arrived in the prison.

19:31

So, oh my gosh, I'm getting so emotional. Can

19:34

we take a break? I

19:36

felt that my ex-husband was alienating the

19:39

children from me. He wouldn't let

19:41

me talk to them. He would hang up the

19:43

phone. They still don't speak to me. I

19:46

feel victimized by the family court. I

19:48

don't know how a mother can lose

19:50

so many years of their children's lives

19:53

and not be a victim. There's

19:59

three things I say. a lot

20:01

when it involves children. And one is you

20:05

never involve children in adult issues.

20:08

Number two, you don't ever hold children responsible

20:10

for things they don't control. And

20:13

the third thing I say a lot is you

20:16

don't ever want

20:19

to invite the government into your life. I

20:22

agree with that. I've heard you

20:24

say before, you need to love your

20:26

child more than you hate your ex

20:28

or your spouse or whatever, that's critical,

20:30

right? It's absolutely right. To

20:32

be a fit parent and for a judge

20:34

to make that decision on your behalf, you

20:37

have to love your children more than you

20:39

hate the other parent. They cannot be used

20:41

as pawns. You cannot groom them

20:43

to say what you want. Judges figure it out

20:45

and if they don't, an expert will. And

20:48

it's just not in the best interest of the child. Why

20:51

do you think that this judge

20:54

was out to get you? Why

20:57

do you think this whole thing

20:59

spun out of control to

21:02

your detriment? My ex-husband and I were

21:04

wealthy. So I think that wealthy

21:07

families have more of those

21:09

funds to spend on the

21:11

experts and the evaluations and things like

21:14

that. So I think that was part

21:16

of it. That's part of it, ma'am.

21:18

Let me just say that a high conflict case

21:21

is one where there are children that you're fighting

21:23

over. Has nothing to do with money. They would

21:25

not have looked at your bank book. So

21:27

I'm sorry, but I think your premise is not

21:30

right. Yet somewhere you lost the best interest

21:32

of your kids. I necessarily think it was

21:34

the judge, but I do think that the

21:37

lawyers now, and I

21:39

do think that they can induce some

21:41

conflict. My husband and I didn't get

21:43

along, but we did get divorced by

21:45

agreement. I'm not saying that we got

21:47

along great, but after we

21:49

were divorced, we did spend our first

21:51

Christmas together. So we're not these

21:54

people who were just at each other's throats.

21:56

So why all the conflict then? I think

21:58

my husband did. He'd hate me more than

22:00

he loved our children. And

22:02

to see me grow and

22:05

to be able to move beyond the

22:07

marriage I think really

22:09

upset him. And I also think it

22:11

was, the decisions of

22:13

the court were very hard for both of us

22:15

to live with. Well, the judge said

22:17

the kids would stay

22:19

with the father and

22:22

sent you to jail. Correct. And

22:25

that's a pretty radical position for a

22:27

judge to take. There is a presumption

22:30

that children should have their mother in their

22:32

life. Unless there is a profound

22:35

reason for there not to be. And for a

22:37

judge to say, nope, kids are going with the

22:39

father and you're going to jail. Right.

22:42

Now that doesn't just happen out of the blue.

22:45

Why did the judge do that? So

22:47

it's two separate incidents. So there was

22:49

a big push in Connecticut

22:51

at that time for father's rights. The

22:53

judge switched the custody. I

22:56

had returned to work. My husband was

22:58

unemployed. I do think there was some-

23:00

You said you were wealthy. We were when we

23:03

started. Five years in, that was diminishing.

23:05

Why did you go to jail? When

23:07

the children refused to go to their father, DCF

23:09

placed them with my mother. And

23:12

I was charged that day, which

23:14

when at that point there was

23:16

a DCF investigation launched and he

23:18

was substantiated for neglect. So

23:20

I was giving my children a voice. They spoke

23:22

to experts. Why did you go to jail

23:24

for 58 days? Fast forward 2017, those

23:30

charges came about. They

23:32

wanted me to take a deal to nullify

23:35

the charges. I didn't take

23:37

the deal, went to trial, and I was found

23:39

guilty of the soty interference. You

23:41

didn't return the children when you were

23:43

supposed to. That's contempt of court. Did

23:45

you say let's walk out to dad's

23:47

car? Did you try anything like that?

23:49

I did encourage them at the time.

23:51

How did you encourage them? I

23:54

said, your father's here, it's time to go. But

23:56

they were telling me that their father was drinking.

23:59

So, He said he was going to call the

24:01

police, and I said, please do, because

24:03

of what the children were

24:05

saying. And in that process, DCF did

24:07

investigate and did substantiate neglect because he

24:09

did have an alcohol problem. But if

24:11

you didn't- Okay, wait, wait, look. I've

24:13

said, you don't wanna go

24:16

to the court. You don't wanna get in

24:18

the court system because there are rules there

24:20

and you're gonna have to follow them, or

24:22

they will take you out of the game.

24:24

They will take you off the game board

24:26

and put your children sometimes where they don't

24:28

belong. The judge says there

24:30

are holes in that story because she

24:33

entered the game and then didn't play the

24:35

game by the court's rules. We'll talk about

24:37

that next. The October

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tnusa.com, slash Dr. Phil, or

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call 1-800-958-1000. How

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GEICO and save on your car insurance?

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It's like going to work on one

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Thursday morning and thinking to yourself, just

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one more day until Friday. But then

25:50

somebody in the elevator says, happy Friday.

25:53

Then you check your phone quickly

25:56

and discover today is actually Friday.

25:58

So yes, happy Friday, random. stranger

26:00

in the elevator, happy Friday indeed.

26:02

Yep, switching and saving with Geico

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feels just like that. Get more

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with Geico. Now,

26:09

we actually talked to the court and

26:12

got an opinion on

26:15

Laurie's case. One of

26:17

the quotes was, parties continue

26:19

relentless litigation, have

26:21

been either unemployed or underemployed

26:24

for the past few years.

26:26

Their demands of their

26:28

continued litigation. Given

26:30

the party's repetitive and consistent

26:33

returns to court, the court

26:35

has become an unintended chronicle

26:37

of the family's post dissolution

26:40

functioning. Brimming

26:42

with decisions of the defendant

26:45

that continue to display poor

26:47

judgment. That's referring to you.

26:50

What do you read into that? The court

26:52

was tired of the fighting. The court gives

26:54

a strong message when it uses that kind

26:56

of language. It tells me also that when

26:58

they say that defendant was making

27:00

poor decisions, that she probably did not have

27:03

legal custody for that reason and the

27:05

court continued to see poor judgment. And

27:08

so the fighting was ongoing and they

27:10

made a point to put all of

27:12

those things there, sending a hopeful message,

27:14

which the parties never got. Would

27:16

you do this different? Yes. How?

27:20

Less of that. As a older, wiser

27:23

person, I would tell my younger

27:25

self to let the

27:27

small stuff go. It's not worth it. And

27:29

I would be in a very different place if I had done that.

27:32

Yeah, and you

27:34

gotta pick your battles. And there comes a time

27:37

where you gotta pick up the phone and

27:39

call your partner, your ex,

27:42

and say, hey, this

27:44

isn't good for RJ, this isn't good for

27:46

the others. And if you

27:49

break this down and look at why

27:51

you lost custody, the

27:54

court's position is failure

27:57

to protect, educational

27:59

neglect. consistent violations

28:01

of court orders, inability to

28:04

foster positive relationships between children

28:06

and other parent, and

28:09

displays bad judgment. You

28:12

gave them ammunition. And

28:15

I know the story

28:17

behind every one of those and

28:19

could make a great argument on

28:22

your parts. And I mean that

28:24

sincerely, but you give them ammunition.

28:26

Right. And your

28:29

ex is not here, and

28:31

I could make a list to fill all

28:33

three of these screens

28:36

for criticisms of

28:39

him and his contribution. And none

28:41

of it is in the best interest of the children.

28:43

Correct. That's the problem. My

28:45

ex-husband would disagree, but

28:47

I felt he was alienating me

28:49

from the children. He felt I

28:51

was alienating him from the children.

28:54

And we really needed some co-parenting,

28:56

which I always asked for, and

28:58

he would not participate. I remember one

29:00

therapist telling me, you want

29:03

to give your children free range chicken,

29:05

and your ex-husband is giving them Cheetos,

29:07

and that's okay. And it takes

29:09

a while for that to be okay. And

29:12

it was just analogous of all

29:14

the things that you have expectations that you

29:17

want met, and they're not, which was a

29:19

lot of the bickering. Right, because you just,

29:21

can you just not be them Cheetos? We

29:23

didn't go to court over Cheetos, but

29:26

it was. Day on air. We did

29:29

not. So, but we did. That's not the

29:31

only thing. Right, we did go to court

29:33

over little league schedules and soccer schedules, and

29:35

that stuff, I wanted it for my children.

29:38

And in the moment, it's like, this is what's best for

29:40

them, but the fighting. Yes, that's

29:42

what you did then. Right, I wanted them

29:44

to have a great life, but fighting with

29:46

their father was more detrimental

29:49

than missing little league. And

29:52

that does have lifelong impact on the

29:54

children. Right. And here are

29:56

literally pawns being thrown back and forth between

29:58

the two people they're supposed to trust. and

30:00

who were supposed to be protecting them from

30:02

all of this. When I did go to

30:04

battle, or actually go, it was over him

30:06

drinking and passing out and the children putting

30:08

themselves to bed and stories coming

30:10

from all four children and I was married

30:13

to him, so I knew that this was

30:15

not Barbette. Yes, that's allegedly. Yes, but you

30:17

would jump in and help them with their

30:19

father. That would have been better. Right. We

30:22

have to stop and take a break here. What

30:25

you just said about your ex-husband is allegedly

30:27

he's not here to defend

30:29

himself as he's passed away. Yes, yes.

30:31

And I do want to

30:33

give you the final word, RJ. I

30:36

mean, yeah, it was just my dad was given a

30:38

lot of power by the family court because he did

30:40

hate my mom. He wanted to see her miserable. He

30:43

told me that multiple times growing up and I think

30:45

that was dangerous and it also sucked for

30:47

me and my siblings. Unrelated to our parents

30:49

is that all the professionals involved gave us no

30:51

say. They kept saying, once you turn 12, you

30:53

get a say. Once you turn 13, they kept

30:55

pushing it back and it got to

30:57

the point where I took it into my own hands. Me

31:00

and my dad physically fought, the police got involved and I

31:02

was given to my mom. And then a

31:04

couple of years later is when she went to jail and I

31:06

was just left there. The state of

31:08

Connecticut didn't send anyone. She never came

31:10

home. I came home from school. No

31:13

one was there. Luckily she had friends and family, but

31:16

if she didn't, I would have been on my

31:18

own at 15. Right.

31:21

So I have no relationship with my siblings. They

31:23

won't talk to me because my dad didn't alienate

31:25

them from us. After

31:28

I ran away, I was able to go see my dad. They

31:30

weren't allowed to see us. And you're open

31:32

to seeing your siblings if they were open to

31:34

seeing you. Absolutely, I've reached out to them countless

31:37

times. It's basically at the point where I

31:39

just have to wait until they reach

31:41

out to me. You said all this time

31:43

in court, you never had a

31:45

voice. That's why I wanted you to have the final

31:47

word here. Thank you. When we come

31:49

back, we'll meet a

31:52

father who says the family court was

31:54

intentionally trying to put him on

31:56

track to be a deadbeat dad. We'll

31:59

find out what he means. by that when we come

32:01

back. Jason says his eight year

32:03

custody battle nearly killed him but

32:06

that he would do anything for his daughter.

32:10

Family court was the toughest

32:12

fight of my life. My daughter's

32:15

mother and I, we split, so

32:17

I retained an attorney and

32:20

filed for custody. My

32:22

concerns about my daughter being in my

32:24

ex's custody were first and foremost safety.

32:27

Boo. There

32:29

was a history of prescription, pill use

32:32

and other recreational drugs. You

32:35

like it? I

32:38

wasn't happy with the outcome of the custody. I

32:40

was treated like a deadbeat dad. I

32:44

expressed my concerns and they were dismissed. The

32:48

first time I noticed something that seemed weird

32:50

was September of 16. On

32:52

her leg, she had bruising which

32:55

was identical to someone grabbing. From

32:57

there on out, it was getting more regularly, like every

33:00

couple of weeks. It wasn't until her hand was slammed

33:02

on a door that action really

33:04

seemed to take place. All

33:06

five digits were lacerated, fractured

33:08

knuckle, two jammed

33:10

fingers. My attorney filed a

33:13

motion. A friend of the court ruled that

33:15

I would be primary. I

33:17

had people saying to me like, you can't keep spending this money. Do

33:20

you think I'd give a f*** about $7,500 if my daughter dies? I

33:24

can go make more money. And I'm

33:26

not rich by any means, but

33:29

I don't know if I'd, I

33:33

wouldn't be able to look at myself or

33:37

forgive myself. Jason,

33:41

what do you think the courts could

33:44

have done differently with your case?

33:46

I think the courts could have paid

33:50

attention to the evidence held

33:53

true to their word. The initial

33:55

conciliation when I filed custody, it's

33:57

not very evidentiary. It

34:01

was he said, she said, and I

34:03

was treated like a deadbeat dad, which

34:05

was shocking because that

34:08

wasn't how I saw myself, but

34:11

that was how the conciliar saw it. You

34:14

actually came to

34:17

get help from Judge Aquilina, right? I've

34:19

known Judge Aquilina now for almost 20

34:21

years, and when I'd

34:24

be at the courthouse, I'd see if she was in

34:26

her chambers, we'd have coffee, and I'd

34:29

end up just crying on her

34:32

shoulder basically, and she always lent

34:34

a gentle ear, was very diplomatic, and

34:37

just kept telling me to stay in the fight. And

34:40

what was the toughest thing that you saw him

34:42

having to face and deal with, Judge? There

34:45

were orders, things that he didn't want to

34:47

do, and I said, Jason, no matter what

34:49

the court orders, the court doesn't always get

34:51

it right. You have

34:53

to follow the orders, and the court

34:55

will eventually see that you are the

34:58

fit parent and the custodial parent, but

35:00

it's going to take some time. And

35:02

he sobbed at that because he was

35:04

not happy with some of the decisions, but

35:07

he, too, the letter, followed

35:09

the orders of the court and eventually

35:11

got his daughter. And

35:13

that's hard when

35:17

you're in a situation where

35:19

you have physical photographic

35:21

evidence that

35:24

it's like you say a

35:27

blind person can see these

35:30

are not fall-down bruises,

35:32

these fit fingerprint

35:34

patterns. You can see exactly

35:37

how this happens. And

35:40

Dr. Sophie, how many times

35:42

have you looked at this kind of thing? A million

35:44

times, tells the story right there. It's the

35:46

whole story. And when somebody

35:48

ignores that, that's the problem. And

35:51

thank heavens Jason had the advice that you

35:53

gave him, most people don't get that advice.

35:56

And they are so desperate. I was

35:58

in the criminal justice system. for

36:00

20 years, crazy things happened

36:02

to me. I had one person I prosecuted threatened

36:04

to kill me and my son and found my

36:06

son's middle school to kill him. I

36:08

had someone, as I was given a closing argument, attack

36:11

me in the courtroom in front of the jury

36:13

with a shiv he had made and hidden up

36:15

a body cavity. Crazy things happened at the criminal

36:17

courthouse, but I always maintained

36:20

that crazier things happen in the

36:22

family courts because things

36:24

happen that seem so unfair and so

36:26

unjust and you have these parents who

36:28

become so desperate and emotional

36:30

and volatile and it becomes very

36:33

unstable. And so that's why

36:35

there needs to be a spotlight on this,

36:37

right, it becomes very volatile. Family court is

36:39

the most, as you've just outlined, the most

36:41

dangerous court we have. It is.

36:45

You can divide a bank account, but

36:47

you can't divide a child. Right. What

36:49

did you say to yourself along the way and

36:51

how did you keep

36:54

control? I

36:56

think I realized, one, I

36:58

don't have a lot of control over anything. I had to

37:00

follow the order. I would pray for my ex that

37:03

she would be a fit mother. It wasn't about me. It

37:06

was about my daughter having a fit and

37:08

healthy mom. I kept trying to do the

37:10

next right thing and it was hard.

37:14

And every time I dropped her off, I would

37:16

just pray, but she'd come

37:19

back safely. You

37:21

were concerned not just by what your

37:23

ex was doing and what you

37:25

were seeing evidence of, but that she was being

37:28

exposed to some dangerous

37:30

situations. Yes, my daughter's

37:32

mother got married after we were not

37:35

together anymore and I would

37:37

do a background check because the number one molesters

37:41

of children are the new boyfriend

37:43

or husband of the mom. So

37:45

I was mindful of that. Well,

37:47

you bring up that there's risk there

37:50

with these men and

37:53

the statistics tell us that the

37:56

likelihood of sexual molestation or abuse

37:58

with a non-biological. male in the

38:00

home is 33 times normal.

38:04

Yep. Yep. And

38:06

the likelihood of a child being

38:08

killed by a

38:10

non-biological male is 100 times

38:13

normal. Non-biological

38:16

married parents is 9X,

38:20

bioparents unmarried, 5X,

38:22

single parent cohabiting 20X. There's

38:25

nothing safer for a child than

38:29

biological parents living together.

38:32

Now your concerns

38:36

were not unfounded because your

38:39

ex was ultimately murdered. Yes.

38:42

Correct? Yes. There was a

38:45

final text message from

38:47

your ex to you

38:50

which reads,

38:53

please tell my daughter I

38:55

love her. So it

38:57

was over a year that my daughter hadn't

38:59

seen her mom before her life

39:02

was taken. And

39:04

delivering her that news was tough. Yeah,

39:09

that's not an easy thing for a child

39:11

to hear for you or for you to

39:13

deliver either one. My

39:15

final thoughts after the break.

39:18

You were concerned about choices that

39:20

your daughter's mother

39:22

was making. Yes. Sure

39:25

enough, she

39:27

wound up tragically being murdered. And

39:30

you could share what your daughter said when you told her.

39:33

So we were at State of the School that night. I

39:35

got the message right before we walked into the school that

39:37

they found my daughter's mother. And

39:41

I kind of white knuckled through the evening and we were

39:43

walking in the car and my daughter could tell I was upset. And

39:46

I said, yeah, they

39:48

found your mom and she's not with us anymore. And

39:51

she ugly cried and said I don't want my mom

39:53

to be dead. So

39:55

we went to this spot down by the river

39:57

on Michigan State's campus. Sat on a bench.

40:03

I told her my

40:08

best memory was of her mom. I

40:10

knew what was

40:12

coming next. My

40:19

daughter was angry with her mother, and

40:21

we've had to deal with that. So working

40:23

through some coping skills to

40:26

forgive herself, that writing

40:28

letters to her mom and some

40:31

other things to

40:33

heal that. And how's your

40:36

daughter doing now? She's awesome. She's

40:38

the best. I think your daughter won the dad

40:40

lottery. Yeah. Thank

40:43

you. A

40:51

final thought is, this is not a popularity contest,

40:55

whether you're parenting a

40:57

child together or

40:59

whether you're breaking

41:01

up a marriage. You can't

41:03

divorce your children. You

41:06

may divorce their other

41:08

parent, but you will forever

41:11

be their parents. And you may think, well, I'm

41:13

going to get them to like me best now. But

41:16

I promise you, if

41:19

you alienate them from the

41:22

other parent, the day will come, they'll look

41:24

at you and say, why

41:28

did you put distance between me

41:31

and my

41:33

mother or father? Why

41:35

did you do that? You

41:37

didn't need to blow out her

41:39

candle to make yours burn brighter.

41:42

You didn't need to blow out his

41:44

candle to make yours burn brighter. And

41:46

they will resent you for it. And

41:48

it's interesting, we have two parents here,

41:52

whose exes are both

41:54

deceased. There are bells

41:56

that you can't unring. You

41:58

can't go back and fix those things. Now, next

42:01

time you think, well, I'll take you to

42:03

court by God. You

42:06

may wish you hadn't. Thank you for

42:08

having this important conversation. It's all information

42:10

that people need to know and nobody

42:13

wants to talk about. And

42:15

thank both of y'all for coming here

42:17

in Sheridan. RJ, thanks for speaking up.

42:19

I wanna thank Judge Rosemary Aquilina, Dr.

42:22

Charles Stofie, Lonnie Coombs, all of my

42:24

guests today. And thank

42:26

you at home for watching because here

42:28

at Dr. Phil Primetime and at Merritt

42:30

Street Media, we're gonna

42:32

continue to focus on the issues that

42:34

we're all facing in our society. And

42:37

boy, do we

42:39

have issues. We

42:41

do. My

42:43

new book, surprisingly, is entitled,

42:46

We've Got Issues, How All

42:48

Americans Can Stand Strong for Our

42:50

Country's Soul and Sanity. And

42:52

it's on sale now everywhere books

42:55

are sold. Thank you for making

42:57

it my 10th New

42:59

York Times bestseller. We will

43:01

have even more information about tonight's episode

43:04

on our website. So make sure to

43:06

log on to drphil.com. Thank

43:08

you. We'll see you next time. How

43:20

do you feel when you switch to

43:23

GEICO and save on your car insurance?

43:25

It's like going to work on one

43:27

Thursday morning and thinking to yourself, just

43:29

one more day until Friday. But then

43:31

somebody in the elevator says, happy Friday.

43:34

Then you check your phone quickly and

43:36

discover today is actually Friday. So

43:38

yes, Happy Fri-yay, random stranger in

43:41

the elevator. Happy Fri-yay

43:43

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more with Geico! It's

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Auto Nation's Black Friday Used Car Sales

43:52

Event. Now

43:54

through Sunday only. Take advantage of

43:56

reduced prices on thousands of used

43:58

cars, trucks and... SUVs. All

44:01

makes. All models. On sale. Domestics.

44:05

Imports. Luxury. On sale. This is

44:08

one Black Friday used car sales

44:10

event you can't afford to miss.

44:12

Hurry to the Auto Nation store

44:15

near you today or shop now

44:17

at autonation.com.

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