Could you use a strong dose of optimism right about now? Meet our guest Jen Gotch: a creative powerhouse, mental health advocate, the chief creative officer of ban.do, and author of a new book called The Upside of Being Down. Jen takes us down the winding path that got her to where she is today, and shares insights on how to untether yourself from your work, listen to your gut, and excavate who you really are. And yes, she helps us find the upside to the pandemic.