Is the Holy Grail a crushed beer can in the gutter? JF and Phil consider the implications of Philip K. Dick's line, "the symbols of the divine initially show up at the trash stratum." Gnosticism, Aleister Crowley's Thoth tarot, Thomas Ligotti's "The Order of Illusion," Jack Smith's glorification of moldy glamour, saints' relics that look like beef jerky -- all this and more in the first of a two-part conversation. REFERENCESAleister Crowley, The Book of Thoth (https://hermetic.com/crowley/book-of-thoth/index) Phil Ford, "What Good News Do You Bring?" (https://dialmformusicology.com/2015/03/11/what-good-news-do-you-bring/)Philip K. Dick, The Exegesis (https://www.amazon.com/Exegesis-Philip-K-Dick/dp/0547549253/)Philip K. Dick, VALIS (https://www.amazon.com/VALIS-Valis-Trilogy-Philip-Dick/dp/0547572417)Stanislav Lem, Microworlds (https://www.amazon.com/Microworlds-Stanislaw-Lem/dp/0156594439)Jonathan Haidt, The Righteous Mind (http://righteousmind.com/)Robertson Davies, The Rebel Angels (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/74405.The_Rebel_Angels)Thomas Ligotti, Noctuary (https://www.amazon.com/Noctuary-Thomas-Ligotti/dp/1596064706)Friedrich Nietzsche, The Birth of Tragedy (https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/51356)Frank Darabont (dir.), The Shawshank Redemption (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111161/)Weird Studies podcast, On Tarkovsky's 'Stalker' Part 1 (http://www.weirdstudies.com/14) and Part 2 (http://www.weirdstudies.com/15)Richard Wagner, Parsifal (http://www.monsalvat.no/index.htm)