Episode Transcript
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0:01
Okay, I'm going gonna stop this episode of the
0:03
podcast with a disclaimer. with
0:05
a disclaimer. There's a I
0:07
do with my friends, friends, and I have
0:09
called it sweeping judgments. All of these opinions
0:11
are our opinions. our Everything we say
0:14
is ridiculous. say is None of it needs
0:16
to make sense. needs If you've come here
0:18
for facts, this is not the podcast
0:20
for you. this This is not the
0:22
episode for you. you. There might
0:24
also be jokes. also If you don't like
0:26
jokes, If I'm warning you now. Get
0:29
your kid to take you out of the room because
0:31
shit might go down. now. Get
0:33
your kid to take
0:35
you out of the
0:37
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0:40
go down. This is
0:42
what is with Trevor
0:45
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3:20
to Sweeping Judgment. Josh, I'm just
3:22
going to jump straight into it.
3:25
Okay. As a fellow, fellow gray
3:27
hoodie wearer. Yeah. You knew this
3:29
guy was going to shoot the
3:31
guy, didn't you? Uh, it's something.
3:34
Why are you still wearing the
3:36
hoodie, by the way? I, okay,
3:38
look, this is how I actually
3:40
dress. So, when he... When
3:43
he popped up, can I tell
3:45
you, can I tell you one
3:47
thing real quick about the whole
3:49
thing before we knew who he
3:52
was or anything? When I saw
3:54
that dude stand up and then
3:56
like get the gun ready, everything.
3:58
I was so thankful to see
4:01
white hand. Oh yeah. was over
4:03
for you. Oh, it was over
4:05
for you. Then, then, do you
4:07
know how many videos have you
4:10
wearing that exact outfit with that
4:12
exact backpack? Talking about CEOs. And
4:14
so then, then, CBS had the
4:16
unmitigated nerve. to
4:19
say a light-skinned man. Did you know? Yeah,
4:21
I noticed that shit. I thought, oh, you
4:23
know what? Do you want to know my
4:25
conspiracy? Italians are black again. No. No, no,
4:27
no, no, no, no, no. That trumpy woman
4:30
said Ariana Grande is taking white people's roads.
4:32
No, no, no, no. She's Italian. I'm telling
4:34
you, Josh. I know it's just that's light
4:36
scared. I thought I was the only one.
4:38
Yeah, I know. I genuinely thought about... Now
4:40
my theory is, because it's come out as
4:43
Italian, I'm like, maybe, you know... Yeah, but
4:45
they didn't know, but they didn't know when
4:47
they made that statement. But now what I'm
4:49
saying, they're calling Italian light skins? No, no,
4:51
no, no. Let me tell you something, I,
4:54
when that exact thing, because we all sort,
4:56
we all looked at the hand, and we,
4:58
you look and you're like, we know who
5:00
this isn't. Yeah, no, no, no, no. And
5:02
then they were like a light skin man.
5:05
I was like, uh, uh, uh, guys, let's,
5:07
let's not. No, also. I don't want to,
5:09
like, cast dispersions on my people, but the
5:11
time of day, I knew they weren't black.
5:15
like too early to be doing
5:17
hits like no no we're not
5:19
doing because you know at the
5:21
beginning we trust fired in the
5:23
studio we thought it was like
5:25
some elaborate like they hide an
5:27
assassin yes yes and I feel
5:29
like any black assassins out there
5:31
probably work between 11 a.m and
5:33
8 p.m. I do not stand
5:36
by any of these statements. I
5:38
do not. I'm just saying I
5:40
won't let a black comedian woman
5:42
make jokes about black people. I
5:44
didn't say we'd be late. I'm
5:46
just saying that our working hours
5:48
we have different working hours would
5:50
be slightly different. You know what
5:52
I'm not happy that anything happened
5:54
the way it did. However, I
5:56
do think you know because we
5:58
grew up very religious, all three
6:00
of us, that sometimes we are
6:02
blessed in certain ways. I was
6:04
chatting to Christiana about this church
6:06
and I was like, oh man,
6:09
I wonder if we're gonna talk
6:11
about it on the podcast. And
6:13
Christiana was like, but we can't.
6:15
She was like, we cannot because
6:17
he hasn't been caught and there
6:19
is no third act to the
6:21
story. We know that the, no,
6:23
I was like, we know that
6:25
an assassin shot the CEO, we
6:27
know that he's on the run,
6:29
but we don't know how it.
6:31
I will say this, the suspect,
6:33
because maybe he's not, and maybe
6:35
he will be found innocent. Can
6:37
I interject with one other thing
6:40
that is about this media frenzy
6:42
that is a joy to watch?
6:44
It starts out with something bad,
6:46
but just maybe we'll get there.
6:48
Maybe you'll cut this whole thing.
6:50
It's up to you. We're not
6:52
cutting anything from this episode. Everything
6:54
we're not terms and conditions. Anything
6:56
you listen to beyond this point,
6:58
terms and conditions apply. You have
7:00
agreed. Josh, go for it. So
7:02
basically, there's a thing, and it's
7:04
talked about in media, but it's
7:06
almost only talked about by people
7:08
of color because it's usually when
7:11
it happens to us or we
7:13
watch it happen. Whenever someone who
7:15
is usually white, almost always white,
7:17
but affluent, gets in trouble for
7:19
anything. They use the best pictures
7:21
of them. They show them in
7:23
the best light. And finally, there
7:25
are people who are like disgusted
7:27
by this act who are like
7:29
from that normally protected group that
7:31
have to watch. the
7:34
best pictures of this guy get
7:36
circulated. Like he hadn't taken a
7:38
bad picture yet his driver's license
7:40
look good. Genuinely has not. I
7:42
call him assassin Bay. Like he
7:44
is. He has a fan club
7:46
amongst the ladies. Yeah. Is this
7:48
surprising? Is this hot privilege? Is
7:50
that what it's called? Yeah. I
7:52
mean if you thought Ted Bundy
7:54
got mail. Oh man. It's also
7:56
who he took out. yes, he
7:58
had shot a worker in McDonald's
8:00
for instance the person who snitched
8:02
on him right? We'd be like
8:04
that's not cool, but he he
8:06
literally like shot up Oh, yeah,
8:08
you know what I mean? To
8:10
use comedy terms. Yeah, he punched
8:12
he punched He punched up and
8:14
knocked down RIP to that man
8:16
by the way, you know father
8:18
family man, you know, we should
8:20
we're dehumanizing CEOs right now, but
8:22
people don't care about COS Yeah,
8:24
well, I would never dehumanize a
8:27
CEO. No. Bad for business. But,
8:29
but, we'll get into this later,
8:31
but I think part of the
8:33
conversation is going to be us
8:35
discussing who gets to be the
8:37
killer. Do you know what I
8:39
mean? But let's first start with
8:41
like the most recent news. He
8:44
gets caught at a McDonald's. I don't
8:46
know about you, but everywhere I went,
8:48
people seem to be on this guy's
8:50
side. I'm shocked that somebody snitched on
8:52
him. So I'll throw this, I'll throw
8:55
two things out there, right? First one
8:57
is a... This is not in defense
8:59
of this person who did the telling.
9:01
I'm just telling you what happened, right?
9:03
In my experience, will you work at
9:05
a job like that? And somebody crazy
9:08
come in? You just want them out
9:10
by any means necessary. And so I
9:12
think there is a part of you
9:14
working there being like, look, I don't
9:16
know. He might think I'm the CEO.
9:18
I don't know what he gonna do
9:21
next. I will say though, there's some
9:23
crazy irony in that, and I don't
9:25
know if y'all have heard it yet,
9:27
but I know all these things are
9:29
happening in real time, every minute, there's
9:31
like a new update and stuff. Yeah,
9:34
yeah, there's no, as we said, there
9:36
are no facts in this podcast. These
9:38
are all sweeping judgments. Keep going, Josh.
9:40
Apparently, yes. Apparently. they are not going
9:42
to give that McDonald's worker the reward
9:44
that they were advertising. Which is low-key
9:47
hilarious because if I lost out on
9:49
$60,000 I would be mad enough to
9:51
shoot somebody. I don't understand what the
9:53
logic is behind that by the way.
9:55
The reward or not giving it to
9:57
not giving the
9:59
reward. I don't understand
10:02
understand why, like you've got to like claim it
10:04
ahead of time type ahead of but I don't know
10:06
what you've heard I don't know what you've So what
10:08
I've heard is that, that it's quote
10:10
it's quote unquote which which is a
10:12
hilarious statement because it would complicate
10:14
what that man was right there.
10:16
there. But
10:18
apparently it's complicated because it has
10:20
the actual reward to go out,
10:22
has to be approved by like
10:24
two different bodies. And the first
10:27
reward of $10 ,000, reward of was 10
10:29
,000. And then they were like,
10:31
oh, we're upping it then they were like, oh,
10:33
we're upping it. one only person said
10:35
that, not the other one.
10:37
the other one. So like, oh, we're not
10:39
gonna give you. to the money, the and
10:41
we got the guy. got the And what are
10:43
you going to do? you us? We're the FBI. us?
10:45
We're the FBI. You see the system
10:47
doesn't care about you. No, it
10:49
doesn't No, think this this story this
10:52
I mean, it's... I mean, it's, you know, know,
10:54
I'll I'll echo what you said, said, I am
10:56
not happy for anybody to be shot. I shot.
10:58
do not wish for any CEO to be shot,
11:00
I cetera. wish for But, CEO to be shot,
11:03
etc. But, found it interesting. found
11:05
it interesting that companies
11:08
and CEOs saw this moment first
11:10
and this moment, first and foremost
11:12
through the lens of them and their
11:14
safety and their ideas. ideas.
11:16
then seeing seeing it through like how people
11:18
were responding to it. Do you know what
11:20
I'm saying? know what I'm saying? Like think about it this
11:22
way, when Donald Trump, someone tried to shoot Donald
11:24
Trump. tried to shoot Donald Trump,
11:27
I don't know what the exact number was, but it
11:29
felt like. was, but it the country was
11:31
like, country was And then maybe then even 20
11:33
% was like, yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe, it
11:35
didn't feel like a unanimous thing. like
11:37
a This is Donald Trump. This is
11:39
Donald Trump, argue the most polarizing figure
11:41
in American politics in there. polarizing figure
11:44
in the CEO guy got shot.
11:47
Twitter had some of of
11:49
meanest and funniest memes.
11:52
in in cycle. I cycle. I wasn't
11:54
there wasn't even a single person who
11:57
was like, guys, guys, guys. guys,
11:59
guys, guys. soon. I've never seen
12:01
jokes never be too soon. And I
12:03
don't understand why they didn't think of
12:05
that first. Like why was their first
12:07
thought, oh this shows you how dangerous
12:10
it is to do our jobs and
12:12
not all this shows you how the
12:14
things we're doing in our jobs are
12:16
so shitty that the whole country is
12:18
full of assassin. think that in order
12:20
to effectively do the job of a
12:22
CEO, especially when it comes to something
12:25
that deals with human life, you have
12:27
to be nearly sociopathic in nature, and
12:29
so then your personal well-being is still
12:31
like enough of a hierarchy in your
12:33
mind, that you don't think about things
12:35
in the way that it would almost
12:38
make sense to think about them, if
12:40
that makes sense. So for me, like
12:42
a good example, I know a lot
12:44
of dudes who used to be a
12:46
bouncer. And all those dudes that
12:48
used to be a bouncer, the same thing
12:51
happened. Somebody finally pulled a gun on them.
12:53
And they were like, you know what? I
12:55
don't need this job, right? and
12:58
and but it was a thing of
13:00
like oh i'm gonna do something different
13:02
because i don't i don't like what's
13:04
happening right now so them taking down
13:07
all their info and not just being
13:09
like you know what everybody gets free
13:11
anesthesia for the next six months like
13:13
like they didn't try to like changing
13:16
about the practices and i think that
13:18
speaks to like a deeper issue in
13:20
in the psyche they don't think like
13:22
us because they don't have to, if
13:25
that makes sense. Also, I feel like,
13:27
I don't know, maybe because I'm a
13:29
foreigner here, violence seems so ambient in
13:31
America, like there's always shootings, right? And.
13:33
for the first time I think for
13:36
like regular people it finally happened to
13:38
a person that is normally like immune
13:40
to that type of violence like how
13:42
often do you like you hear about
13:45
kids getting shot in school all the
13:47
time like to the point we've kind
13:49
of been desensitized to school shooting how
13:51
many times you hear about a CEO
13:53
getting shot and to a lot of
13:56
people CEOs are the enemy so I
13:58
was like now time we read the
14:00
news about a shooter, honestly, because these
14:02
are people that don't ever experience violence
14:05
in the way that regular people do.
14:07
You know what I think it also
14:09
was? It's also the fact that it
14:11
felt like it was targeted in a
14:13
clean and specific way. Do you know
14:16
what I mean? Like every time we
14:18
read a story in the news about
14:20
a shooter, public event, they might leave
14:22
a manifesto. But it feels like such
14:25
an attack on everybody that the people,
14:27
everyone in the community even whether or
14:29
not you're directly in that community or
14:31
not, you feel terrorized by the act.
14:33
This guy was so precise and so
14:36
clean with it. And again, just in
14:38
case you're listening, I do not approve
14:40
any of these things. I'm just pointing
14:42
out how it was perceived by myself
14:45
and many other people. It was so
14:47
clean and precise that nobody else felt
14:49
like it could have happened to them.
14:51
And nobody else felt like it was
14:53
meant to happen to them. It's almost
14:56
like, yeah, this was between you and
14:58
him, man. Yes, yes. You should only
15:00
be scared if you're the CEO of
15:02
the health company. That's what I mean.
15:05
That's what I mean. Everyone else, it
15:07
was like, Wednesday. Whereas when you read
15:09
all these other stories where they'll say,
15:11
oh, this person had an issue, they
15:13
were bullied at school, yeah, but they
15:16
shot the person. And then, do you
15:18
see in the video, there's the lady
15:20
drinking her coffee? Or she's drinking something
15:22
in the video, and the shooting happens,
15:25
and then she just like runs off.
15:27
She's also like, oh, this has nothing
15:29
to do with me. She
15:32
doesn't, she puts her hands up,
15:34
she doesn't stop screaming. She just
15:36
like, goes like, well, clearly, these
15:38
two people have some sort of
15:40
disagreement and it is not about
15:42
me, I'm gonna move. I thought
15:44
it was like a lover, you
15:46
know, where my mind goes. What?
15:48
I thought it was like a
15:50
jilted lover and he was coming
15:52
back to get his revenge. You
15:54
thought a CEO of a healthcare
15:56
company getting shot was about, what
15:59
books are you reading? You don't
16:01
want to know. A lot of
16:03
people thought that. lot of people
16:05
were like, yeah, a lot of
16:07
people were like, oh, him and
16:09
his wife have been separated. He
16:11
probably cheated, she went ahead and
16:13
like, and so I think that
16:15
the difference with this one as
16:17
well is that there's nothing that
16:19
reminds you of the, of
16:22
like the circles and the and
16:24
the class affairs like health care
16:26
does and access to it because
16:28
even with tech because remember when
16:31
that tech CEO got stabbed in
16:33
San Francisco nobody was like oh
16:35
they're after us as CEOs because
16:37
like startups and all that stuff
16:39
is like still in the culture
16:41
as like a way to lift
16:43
yourself up and we don't see
16:45
tech and tech bros in that
16:48
even though we make fun of
16:50
them we don't see them as
16:52
the enemy as much right whereas
16:54
health care if you've ever had
16:56
somebody sick in your life if
16:58
you've ever been sick and you
17:00
were like i followed all the
17:02
rules i gave you money every
17:05
month for seven years and now
17:07
you're you're playing me because you
17:09
can because you're in that like
17:11
higher echelon of this like unspoken
17:13
cast system then then yeah like
17:15
you you now are a representative
17:17
of the most evil thing you
17:19
know It doesn't matter how much
17:22
money you have, you have a
17:24
complaint about the American health care
17:26
system. Yes. Because I speak to
17:28
my super wealthy friends and their
17:30
doctors no longer take insurance because
17:32
the doctors are being screwed by
17:34
the insurance payments. So they're like,
17:36
yeah, if I want to give
17:39
birth, I pay $20,000. That's ridiculous.
17:41
You know, you feel screwed by
17:43
this system. So you're like, all
17:45
right. And look, I know we're
17:47
going back and forth, you know,
17:50
everyone colloquially would say health insurance company
17:52
health care company health care but it's
17:54
important to remember that this company didn't
17:56
provide health care okay is just an
17:58
insurance company for people's health. So what
18:00
you do is you pay them to
18:02
ensure that you have care when something
18:04
goes wrong. And yeah, it turns out
18:07
a lot of the time, I think
18:09
it's like 30% or somewhere up there,
18:11
they're one of the highest in the
18:13
country. they do not give you that
18:15
issue. But it is rare that an
18:17
issue affects as many people across different
18:19
race, gender, class lines as the healthcare
18:21
industry in America. You know what I
18:23
mean? And actually, I want to do
18:25
this. Like, I know there's a bunch
18:28
of manifestos that have come up. but
18:30
apparently this is like the most recent
18:32
slash most confirmed one by the most
18:34
news agencies again if it's not the
18:36
one it's not but they're all similar
18:38
but this one is like apparently yeah
18:40
this is apparently it says um uh
18:42
to the feds i'll keep this short
18:44
because i do respect what you do
18:47
for our country to save you a
18:49
lengthy investigation i stay plainly that i
18:51
wasn't working with anyone this was fairly
18:53
trivial some elementary social engineering basic had
18:55
a lot of patience The spiral notebook,
18:57
if present, has some straggling notes and
18:59
to-do lists that illuminate the gist of
19:01
it. My tech is pretty locked down
19:03
because I work in engineering, so probably
19:05
not much in for there. I do
19:08
apologize for any strife of traumas, but
19:10
it had to be done. Frankly, these
19:12
parasites simply had it coming. A reminder,
19:14
the US has the number one most
19:16
expensive healthcare system in the world, yet
19:18
we rank roughly 42 in life expectancy.
19:20
United is the, and there's an indistinguishable
19:22
thing, largest company in the US by
19:24
market cap behind only Apple Google Walmart.
19:27
It has grown and grown, but as
19:29
our life expectancy, question mark. No, the
19:31
reality is these indissiprovals have simply gotten
19:33
too powerful and they continue to abuse
19:35
our country for a man's profit because
19:37
the American public has allowed them to
19:39
get away with it. Obviously the problem
19:41
is more complex but I do not
19:43
have space and frankly I do not
19:45
pretend to be the most qualified person
19:48
to lay out the full argument. That's
19:50
a pretty gangster line by the way.
19:52
I like how... He has humility. He
19:54
really does like this guy's like gonna
19:56
go like take out a CEO. he's
19:58
like, look, hey man, I also admit,
20:00
I don't know everything, but I'm gonna
20:02
act on what I know. Hashtag humble.
20:04
I will say that's powerful for all
20:07
of us to follow in life the
20:09
humility. And then the last part is
20:11
he says, but many have illuminated the
20:13
corruption and greed, E.G. Rosenthal more, decades
20:15
ago and the problems simply remain, it's
20:17
not an issue of awareness at this
20:19
point, but clearly power games at play.
20:21
Evidently, I'm the first to face it
20:23
with such brutal, with such brutal honesty.
20:27
I'll pitch you this, reading that
20:29
from him was a reminder that
20:31
when you read a history book,
20:33
like Sheikh Wavar and then really
20:35
were just making it up as
20:37
they went. Jimmy
20:39
when you when you look at like
20:42
any sort of movement or any sort
20:44
of revolutionary something because they're gone and
20:46
because they're like an idea yes we
20:48
think of them as people who had
20:51
the whole plan from the beginning and
20:53
in this in like this to me
20:55
is the most perfect example of why
20:57
like for everyone's
21:00
sake, for the people with
21:02
and for the haves and
21:04
have-nots, for everyone's sake, our
21:07
institutions genuinely need to start
21:09
working the way they're supposed
21:11
to work, like no more
21:13
free passes for like politicians,
21:16
no more free passes for
21:18
anyone, because this person has
21:20
basically said in no uncertain
21:22
terms, right? Y'all, I'm only
21:25
a little bit crazy. Like,
21:28
I'm literally just crazy enough to do
21:30
this, but I'm not insane. Like, either
21:32
this is going to happen or you're
21:34
going to take care of the issue.
21:36
Because we act as if we act,
21:38
like, you see Joshapiro and them get
21:41
up there and scold the American public,
21:43
this person is not a hero, and
21:45
it's like, all well and good. And
21:47
I actually, I agree with your sentiment,
21:49
but you of all people should be
21:51
working. as hard as you can to
21:54
save those CEO lives by passing laws
21:56
that rain them in. You cannot tell
21:58
people. is the way it's going to
22:00
be, and you're going to have to
22:02
like it. And those people have guns
22:04
in America. I also think this, this
22:07
is what I mean by who is
22:09
allowed to kill. So we forget that
22:11
laws were made by people. And laws
22:13
were made by people, four people. We
22:15
forget this, right? Oftentimes people think about
22:17
laws as if these were things that
22:20
were passed down from the heavens. But
22:22
laws were actually created by people for
22:24
people, okay? One of those laws in
22:26
most countries in the world is that
22:28
your fate and how guilty you are
22:30
is decided by people. So in America
22:32
you have a jury system but in
22:35
other places they go to judge. A
22:37
person will say, yeah you should go
22:39
to jail for what you did and
22:41
I'm basing this on the law that
22:43
was created by the people. What I
22:45
think a lot of people don't realize
22:48
in this, by the way, is in
22:50
a strange way, if the majority, like
22:52
the vast majority of the country, is
22:54
for this guy, in the strangest way,
22:56
like in a warped way, you then
22:58
sort of have to question the whole
23:01
system to go, oh, wait, is the
23:03
system the thing that is right as
23:05
it stands, or... Is this
23:07
expression of what this guy did exposing that
23:09
the system is wrong and it's not with
23:11
the people? Does this make sense? Yeah, it's
23:13
kind of like that. No, it makes sense.
23:15
Like if all the people are against the
23:17
system, then who is the system for? You
23:20
know, it's like, you know that saying that
23:22
one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter?
23:24
Yes. I think to like people who are
23:26
like very pro-law enforcement, they're like, you can't
23:28
just have people going on a shooting or
23:30
a shooting or a shooting or a shooting
23:32
someone because they don't like the way they
23:34
don't like the way they don't like the
23:36
way they don't like the way they don't
23:38
like the way they don't like the way
23:40
they do. And then you go on Twitter
23:42
and like, because you know in the bullish
23:44
casings, I don't know, I don't speak about.
23:47
Oh yeah, they said like, denied, to pose,
23:49
and delay. Yeah. And that became a hashtag
23:51
on TikTok and Twitter. And people telling these
23:53
horrific stories about their experience with the American
23:55
healthcare system and watching their loved one done.
23:57
And they're like, this guy did something that
23:59
I would have loved to do, but I
24:01
was on the phone. service for hours. Crying
24:03
because of my family. Yeah. Crying because of
24:05
claims and people talking about you know when
24:07
you max out a half a million for
24:09
intensive care with your baby you have to
24:11
pay out whatever comes after that. So like
24:14
you know people see him as a freedom
24:16
fighter and then other people like well if
24:18
we allow this to happen it's like America's
24:20
eventual decay. Yes but I think I think
24:22
the people who are saying that first of
24:24
all you must look at who they are
24:26
you know. Again, it's
24:28
such a hard conversation to have because
24:30
everyone will try and paint you as
24:32
if you are pro just killing a
24:35
person, which I'm not. You know those
24:37
natural experiments that you never expect in
24:39
the world but then are forced to
24:41
live through. They happen to you and
24:43
they force you to think about what's
24:45
happening in society, right? If I think
24:48
of the Sackler family. The cyclif family
24:50
is responsible for killing millions of people
24:52
in America or whatever number, right? Hundreds
24:54
of thousands at least, they are partly
24:56
responsible for doing this in many ways
24:59
actively, right? They're not in jail. They're
25:01
not going to be put on trial
25:03
in that, all of this stuff, all
25:05
of this. They're not going to be
25:07
treated the way he was. And so
25:10
in a strange way, to your point,
25:12
I go, corporations and giant groups of
25:14
powerful people is the domain of the
25:16
powerful like this is the land of
25:18
the kings right they get to do
25:21
a thing to a group of people
25:23
and we don't call that quote-unquote murder
25:25
or an assassination they just go like
25:27
no they were irresponsible and they put
25:29
profits over people's health and safety and
25:31
but I'm like okay but then what
25:34
What happened to the people that they
25:36
did to? Well, many people died. So
25:38
they weren't killed. They just happened to
25:40
die, right? And so in a weird
25:42
way, if this guy had started a
25:45
company somehow, made it about health care,
25:47
created a drug that this guy needed,
25:49
gave him too much of the drug
25:51
or too little of the drug, and
25:53
then this guy died, then Luigi wouldn't
25:56
be going to jail. Absolutely. It's just
25:58
about like how instantly he did it.
26:00
it and how much he did out
26:02
of the system, that he gets treated
26:04
differently. And again, I'm gonna say it's
26:06
a thousand times, because you know how
26:09
the world is. I'm not for what
26:11
he did, but it just throws up
26:13
like an interesting, do you know what
26:15
I mean, Josh, like it throws up
26:17
an interesting conundrum, because the same people
26:20
who are pro the system, apply it.
26:22
differently depending on who is doing the
26:24
killing. They turn around, turn a blind
26:26
eye to like corporate greed and talk,
26:28
I would call it, some people call
26:31
it corporate manslaughter, I call it like
26:33
corporate fricking murder, right? Yeah, I think
26:35
that also if you are able to
26:37
spread as much of the culpability as
26:39
possible, we have a hard time imagining
26:42
1,000 people in a company being liable
26:44
for one murder, if that makes sense.
26:46
Yeah, yeah, completely. So that also takes
26:48
away some of it, even in the
26:50
person's mind, who does it. Because I
26:52
think the thing that I won't say
26:55
no one wants to say, because I'm
26:57
not acting like I'm some complete outlier
26:59
in my rhetoric over it. But I
27:01
think the thing I have not heard
27:03
anyone say is that this man, Luigi,
27:06
committed murder. But he did not commit
27:08
the murder of an innocent man. And
27:10
I think that's where people are struggling.
27:12
Yeah, I mean, because it's like, I
27:14
understand what the Josh Shapiro's and even
27:17
what the news to a certain degree
27:19
is doing, where they're like, no, we
27:21
can't just have murder, blah, blah, blah.
27:23
And I get that. But he killed
27:25
a killer. So like, when it's on
27:27
Dexter, we love it. Yeah, that's true.
27:30
So how are we now so shocked
27:32
that people mostly and people who have
27:34
been killed, by the way, because that's
27:36
the other thing. that i think a
27:38
lot of i won't put it on
27:41
all of like white america or anything
27:43
because they obviously have their own factions
27:45
and their own sections and stuff like
27:47
that but that's what a lot of
27:49
people don't even understand about like gang
27:52
culture is that it's like someone eventually
27:54
gets got you stay in the street
27:56
long enough you get your people yeah
27:58
and then you get got then there
28:00
are people that were that were never
28:03
going to come for you but they're
28:05
waiting for the day that you get
28:07
got because you killed their cousin and
28:09
I and so they don't necessarily you
28:11
were responsible for the yeah and they
28:13
weren't involved in gang anything but they
28:16
are happy the day you get that's
28:18
a that's a great analogy actually yes
28:20
And so I think that's what a
28:22
lot of the, I guess you could
28:24
say upper echelon or the well-off parts
28:27
of America do not understand because they
28:29
are so used to having like swift
28:31
and definitive justice for themselves. Yeah. That
28:33
they cannot put themselves in the shoes
28:35
of someone who did something to you
28:38
and that's just how it is. And
28:40
that's just what happens. And so then
28:42
I move on and you have to
28:44
live with it. This
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Get 15% off your first order. Josh,
30:55
I was wondering something, because I think on
30:57
here we speak a lot about young men
31:00
being radicalized. That was my thing, that was
31:02
my Trump assassination take. I was like, these
31:04
white boys are going crazy guys, we need
31:06
to get them jobs. But this guy had
31:09
all the jobs. And right, so there are
31:11
some people saying on like the more right
31:13
wing media that this is a clear case
31:15
of left wing indoctrination, you send your kid
31:18
to these prep schools, then they go to
31:20
the ivies, they come across these crazy ideas.
31:22
and then look what we have here we
31:24
have someone that you know a boy that
31:27
had the whole few his whole future head
31:29
of him decided to shoot a CEO and
31:31
that is some of the rhetoric we're seeing
31:33
out there do you feel he fits under
31:36
the young man radical legislation whether it's to
31:38
the left or the right because we're seeing
31:40
this happen on both side of the spectrum
31:42
like there was a kid that set himself
31:45
on fire for Palestine last year if you
31:47
remember and so it's like do you think
31:49
he fits that category or he's like something
31:51
of something else entirely Yeah,
31:53
personally I don't because I don't
31:55
see any of the, I think,
31:57
I think blinders that we have
32:00
as Americans are like almost like
32:02
when you go into the 3D
32:04
theater and they give you the
32:06
glasses and one side is red
32:08
and one side is blue and
32:10
it's about to shape how you
32:12
see everything so you're gonna see
32:14
this 3D world because you have
32:16
the red on and the blue
32:18
on together and I think that
32:20
if you go to one of
32:22
those 3D movies without the glasses
32:24
on and you're just like this
32:26
is bad this doesn't make any
32:28
sense. That is who I think
32:30
he is. I don't think there
32:32
was a Republican or a Democratic
32:34
agenda because if you pay attention
32:36
to Republicans and Democrats, they're both
32:38
for the health insurance companies. And
32:40
there's nothing to me that screams
32:42
politics with it as far as
32:44
the online radicalization because everyone, there
32:46
are people, so even people who
32:49
are pro-cop are like, hey, sometimes
32:51
dudes gotta get to get guy.
32:53
Yeah, do I mean? And so
32:55
I don't think he got radicalized
32:57
in a normal... Workout Jordan Peterson
32:59
pipeline if that makes sense you
33:01
want to what my take is
33:03
because sounded like my favorite Workout
33:05
Jordan Jordan Peterson I mean we
33:07
haven't spoken about his appearance No,
33:09
I just think that's a funny
33:11
workout Jordan Peterson pipeline. No, I
33:13
just think that's a funny workout
33:15
Jordan Peterson pipeline. He's very ripped
33:17
very handsome. I won't dwell on
33:19
that too much, but that isn't
33:21
for me why some people are
33:23
treating him this way, but I
33:25
think they spoke about him having
33:27
these I actually argue before you
33:29
move on yeah, I actually think
33:31
it's the other way around. I
33:33
think, you know, sort of in
33:36
the same world that Josh is
33:38
in. I think we might be
33:40
looking at a lot of this
33:42
backward, right? We're going, oh, because
33:44
he's hot. people are treating him
33:46
differently because he's good looking people
33:48
are treated because he's white people
33:50
are treated because he's this because
33:52
i think it's literally the other
33:54
way around i think because he
33:56
went after somebody who represented something
33:58
that everyone a deep
34:00
enemy. And I mean a deep enemy
34:02
because in the most extreme cases, they've
34:05
lost family members because of this. Or
34:07
they themselves are in like chronic pain
34:09
and cannot get help because of the
34:11
system. And this is a company that
34:13
denies one in five claims. I think
34:16
because of that, people are able to
34:18
see things. So like, yes, obviously there
34:20
were people who would always think he's
34:22
good looking because he's good looking maybe.
34:25
But I think more people can see
34:27
his good looking this because he did
34:29
a thing that they approved of. No,
34:31
no, no, no. He is stadium above
34:34
the average man. No, Christian, I'm not
34:36
just. You said you don't want to
34:38
dwell, but I feel like you want
34:40
to dwell on his looks. No, the
34:42
first, when you saw the first image
34:45
where the mask was down, I was
34:47
like, you can't all send this man
34:49
to prison. He needs to be like
34:51
an account of incline ad. And then
34:54
you're seeing more pictures, like even like
34:56
the mug shot he's serving. Yes, yes,
34:58
yes. But that is shaping how women
35:00
feel and gay men feel about this.
35:02
I'm just going to speak on all
35:05
about. I'm not taking that away. What
35:07
I'm saying is this, okay, to Josh's
35:09
point. Like, if somebody, you know, the
35:11
enemy of my enemy in a way,
35:14
right? There are people, as you say,
35:16
Josh, who are pro-law enforcement, who are
35:18
like, yeah, but in this instance, I'm
35:20
with him. There are people who are
35:23
anti-gun. who are like, yeah, but in
35:25
this instance, sometimes you gotta do what
35:27
you gotta do. But because this guy
35:29
has done something that most people would
35:31
argue is almost like morally correct. Which
35:34
is weird, by the way, because it's
35:36
morally accepted or morally correct. they then
35:38
are able to put aside the thing
35:40
that that that butts has with what
35:43
they normally agree or disagree with in
35:45
this instance yes exactly exactly that's why
35:47
I don't think his radicalization was like
35:49
of the norm because he somehow by
35:51
just this this is I'll I'll pitch
35:54
you this and now please don't put
35:56
me on a list because this is
35:58
gonna make me sound radical like, I
36:00
cannot get over what I was saying
36:03
before off of what he wrote. I
36:05
don't think he's someone that was radicalized.
36:07
I think he was someone who like
36:09
in HG Wells Time Machine, the perspective
36:11
of the author is someone who's not
36:14
of that time in the future where
36:16
people are just like kind of willy-nilly
36:18
and like they're willing to let someone
36:20
drown and not do anything or whatever.
36:23
He's like the only one that's like,
36:25
hey, hey, hey, everybody, everything has to
36:27
be done. I'm saying that from what
36:29
he wrote, if you take him at
36:32
his word, he's like, the first domino
36:34
had to drop and it was, it
36:36
just was me because it just was.
36:38
And that's actually someone who, the thing
36:40
that they do may be crazy, but
36:43
that's not a crazy thing to think.
36:45
Right? If you've ever been out with
36:47
your friends and you're the only sober
36:49
one and everybody's drunk, there's, it's one
36:52
of the harsh things to do is
36:54
move a party of drunk people out
36:56
of somewhere. And so, so now you're
36:58
the one that's like kind of being
37:00
the jerk in a way that's yelling
37:03
like, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, we
37:05
got a good way. And I think
37:07
that that is more what he thinks
37:09
he did than any form of like.
37:12
He himself said, he's like, I'm not
37:14
even the most qualified to have this
37:16
discussion. I'm just telling you, you're not
37:18
invincible, the way you treat people matters.
37:21
Like, whatever people are going to insert
37:23
into this and maybe put in the
37:25
zeitgeist is like, that was his intention
37:27
and that doesn't feel as crazy to
37:29
me as like someone who is like
37:32
a unabomber, right? Because this dude managed
37:34
to Venn diagram, Kyle Ritten House and
37:36
Seal Team Six. Everyone. This
37:38
dude, this dude managed to get the
37:41
people who are super super left, the
37:43
people who are super super right. And
37:45
like, even the cops, you could see
37:47
the cops weren't looking hard. The cops
37:49
got family in hospital. Oh man, that's
37:51
true actually. That's why they were brushing
37:54
those leaves. He ain't over here. I
37:56
cut you off the way. So you
37:58
were going down a rabbit hole. I
38:00
was going to say, I think the
38:02
back thing, that's something I've been thinking
38:04
about since yesterday, the fact that he
38:07
lives with chronic pain and had this
38:09
surgery that made it worse, so like
38:11
it's technically in a way disabled or
38:13
has this disabling event, any type of
38:15
chronic issue, especially in American health care
38:17
system, can make you crazy. And I'm
38:19
not saying what he did was in
38:22
the moment of craziness. but being in
38:24
constant pain and the people that are
38:26
supposed to take care of you do
38:28
not will take you to a place
38:30
where most people just like I'm just
38:32
gonna stuff myself of opiates. Yeah, yeah,
38:35
yeah. Do you know what I mean?
38:37
And he's like, we have to do
38:39
something about it. But you see to
38:41
Josh, this is where I think you
38:43
and I literally on the exact same
38:45
side of seeing this is the word
38:48
crazy here. It is for me the
38:50
key, because I agree with you. Somebody
38:52
in chronic pain can do something crazy.
38:54
But oftentimes those people, the crazy goes
38:56
everywhere. Whether it's a guy in Japan
38:58
who goes to a preschool and stabs
39:01
a bunch of kids, whether it's somebody
39:03
in Australia who walks into a crowd
39:05
and shoots a bomb, and then they
39:07
all leave some sort of manifesto and
39:09
they go like, the world is this
39:11
or my company did this, and people
39:13
like, wait, you stabbed preschoolers because your
39:16
company fire, wait, what is happening? And
39:18
then here, to what Josh is saying,
39:20
and I think what a lot of
39:22
people are feeling is, the guy's like,
39:24
yes, I'm chronically in pain, but I'm
39:26
not going to shoot a nurse, I'm
39:29
not going to shoot a doctor, I'm
39:31
not going to shoot an ambulance driver,
39:33
I'm not going to shoot anyone who
39:35
works in a hospital, I'm not going
39:37
to shoot my doctor, I'm not going
39:39
to shoot my doctor, no, no, no,
39:42
no. I'm going to go to the
39:44
person who will trickle down. And that
39:46
to me seems like the opposite of
39:48
crazy. Again, not four again. I think
39:50
he's got, but you know, me, Trevor,
39:52
I think everybody's got a little bit.
39:54
Yeah, I mean, then to me, I
39:57
go like, to live in this simulation,
39:59
you cannot be saying, right? I think
40:01
it was a very lucid thing. Like,
40:03
because what was that? Guys, do you
40:05
know how, have you ever engraved a
40:07
bullet case? This is a
40:10
very... Have you ever held... Have you ever
40:12
held a bullet? Have you ever held a
40:14
bullet? Let me tell you something. Bullets are
40:16
tiny, especially in that type of gun, right?
40:19
Engraving that thing takes a lot of, like,
40:21
dexterity and precision. Yes, but my point is,
40:23
this is not a like, man, I'm gonna
40:26
do something about it and go outside. No,
40:28
you're sitting there, you've got your bullet. you're
40:31
like working away you think you can't
40:33
make any spelling errors yeah right because
40:35
that's not gonna that's not gonna get
40:37
delay doesn't get the same effect when
40:39
people find the stuff it do you
40:41
know what I mean do you think
40:43
he whistled while he made I'm just
40:45
saying most people who are working creating
40:47
things especially tiny things whether it's trains
40:49
or planes will generally you know they'll
40:51
they'll work on it and I yeah
40:53
I think I don't know, look again,
40:55
and I'm going to throw this disclaimer
40:58
in one more time, we do not
41:00
know everything, this is sweeping judgments, from
41:02
everything we do know, from everything we
41:04
do know, or what we think we
41:06
know right now. Could all be wrong,
41:08
might be wrong, let's work on what
41:10
we have. We look at even like
41:12
the books and stuff that he was
41:14
reading, and then like the reviews that
41:16
he apparently left on some of them.
41:18
By the way, he also followed Trevor
41:20
on Twitter. Can I give him props?
41:22
He followed a broad range of people,
41:24
AOC, Joe Rogan, me, Steveo. Like, this
41:26
is like a broad... I think he
41:28
followed Elon on Twitter as well. Like
41:30
it's a broad range of people. And
41:32
if anything, he made me think, huh.
41:34
Should I not be broadening my... Well,
41:36
you know you're safe if he gets
41:38
off non-guity. No, no, no, no. I
41:40
think of it more like this. I
41:42
thought to myself, if this young man
41:44
could... Because someone said to me, they're
41:46
like, why would he follow you and
41:48
Joe Rogan? And I was like, actually,
41:50
you know it? If this young man
41:52
could see any similarities in something between
41:54
me and Joe Rogan, then maybe I
41:56
could do a better job of that
41:58
as well. That's what I thought to
42:00
myself. think when I look at this
42:02
person, I will say this, good luck
42:04
to them finding a jury that is
42:06
going to find him guilty, or even
42:08
a jury who won't pull that, you
42:10
know that law, it's like a, what
42:12
is it called? There's like this weird
42:14
law in America, jury nullification, I think
42:16
it's called or something, where jury can
42:18
be like, yeah, the person did it,
42:20
but you know what, man, it's alright.
42:23
The jury is going to be tainted,
42:25
just because who hasn't had a terrible
42:27
experience with healthcare companies in this country?
42:29
But this is exactly my point. This
42:31
is exactly my point. I'll pitch you
42:33
this. All that dude got to do
42:35
is roll up in there and be
42:37
like, y'all, I am so sorry. I've
42:39
been crazy and I was on the
42:41
phone with United Health Care and nobody
42:43
would take my call. And so I
42:45
was trying not to do this for
42:47
six months because remember y'all I went
42:49
missing? And so then I was on
42:51
the phone with him that whole time
42:53
I was missing and then they didn't
42:55
pick up. So I was like, let
42:57
me go see him. Everything
42:59
you're saying. Everything you're saying.
43:01
Also, if you want to
43:03
talk about safe CEOs, I
43:06
know that the CEO of
43:08
Starbucks must assign a brother
43:10
relief. That man hit a
43:12
Starbucks right before he did
43:14
it. And then CEO of
43:16
McDonald's too. McDonald's probably like,
43:19
oh, thank goodness. All right.
43:21
Oh, boy. Okay. There's
43:23
an interesting, I'm not sure if it
43:25
was a study or if it was
43:28
just a piece of work that was
43:30
done on how collective groups can shift
43:32
individual morals. And it literally spoke to
43:35
this idea of everything that people will
43:37
do as part of a company, they
43:39
would never do as a person. Do
43:42
you know what I mean? Yeah, for
43:44
sure. And I think what this, what
43:46
this kid allegedly did is He sort
43:49
of poked a hole in the idea
43:51
that a corporation isn't people. Do you
43:53
know what I mean? we often act
43:56
like corporations or not people. We go
43:58
like, well, the company, the company, the
44:00
company, the company, the company. And then
44:02
it's like, the company, and you cannot
44:05
send a company to jail. That's literally
44:07
the law. So they go like, you
44:09
can't. What are you going to do
44:12
about it? And so the company's fine
44:14
and the company. And then he came
44:16
along and he was like, oh, no,
44:19
no, no. Guys, it's not the company.
44:21
The same way. When you go on
44:23
a safari. They say the reason animals
44:26
don't jump in and eat you is
44:28
because the lions see you as one
44:30
unit with the vehicle. So they don't
44:33
see people inside the car. They go,
44:35
this thing rumbles past us and it
44:37
doesn't eat us and it doesn't fight
44:40
with us so we don't care about
44:42
it and it's not our prey. Whatever.
44:44
And they leave it alone. in a
44:46
weird way it feels like what he
44:49
did here for many people was he
44:51
went yes i know that this behemoth
44:53
is unstoppable it is unbeatable it is
44:56
unquestion it's everything you you but you
44:58
know what it has people who run
45:00
it and by piercing that veil i
45:03
think a lot of the people who
45:05
run it now go like ugh think
45:07
twice yeah because let me put it
45:10
this way the fact that This
45:12
is what I also realized from this
45:14
whole incident, is like companies don't give
45:17
a shit. They truly don't. Now there
45:19
are companies who are selling benign products
45:21
and it's like, whatever, a drink you
45:23
like, you know, a vacation or yeah,
45:25
I'm not, I don't hate companies, right?
45:28
But there's an element of like companies,
45:30
they don't give a shit. And you
45:32
see the levels of don't give a
45:34
shit even in the story. This guy
45:36
gets shocked the CEO. He was going
45:38
for an investor meeting. You know they
45:41
still held the meeting? Yeah, like some
45:43
gang. They still had that meeting. The
45:45
mob doesn't do that. The mob, if
45:47
somebody, no godfather movie, did somebody get
45:49
pop pop? And they were like, they
45:52
held the meeting. moment of silence. Yo,
45:54
but they react. I think a meeting
45:56
going ahead is the most chilling thing.
45:58
And then how did they and then
46:00
how did all these healthcare companies react?
46:03
They pull down their leadership from every
46:05
website. But here's my thing. If they
46:07
believe that this thing was so dangerous
46:09
that they need to pull down their
46:11
faces. Why would they not get protection
46:13
for everyone? Why would they, do you
46:16
get them saying? It's such a like
46:18
nefarious, it's all about us, it's the
46:20
top and it's the CEOs. I'm like,
46:22
you guys, you can't even act like
46:24
good guys in this moment. You can't
46:27
even come out and go, man, you
46:29
know, we don't like what happened. but
46:31
we need to have conversations about what
46:33
the healthcare industry how we are perceived
46:35
because if one of us is shot
46:38
and everyone is happy maybe it's time
46:40
for us to look inward and be
46:42
like damn maybe there's something we are
46:44
doing or aren't doing it and I
46:46
go back to by the way the
46:48
Trump assassination thing I said this people
46:51
disagreed with you whatever what I said
46:53
like after you look at those few
46:55
weeks after Trump was shot at he
46:57
was a little calmer he was just
46:59
a little bit like hey man you
47:02
know You know, come on guys, like
47:04
hey man. And I think there's like
47:06
a humanness that companies just don't encourage
47:08
in people and this got exposed by
47:10
it even for the people. Like if
47:12
you work for this company, why would
47:15
you even like, why would you, why
47:17
would you, why would you help them
47:19
make themselves worse when they've shown you
47:21
that if the worst that they do
47:23
comes back on you, they don't give
47:26
a shit about you. Well, if you
47:28
lose your job, you lose your health
47:30
insurance, you lose your health insurance. Don't
47:34
go anywhere because we got
47:36
more what now after this.
47:38
This episode is brought to
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you by SurveyMonkey. The world
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app today. This is once again
49:13
gonna make me sound like I've
49:15
been radicalized or something and I
49:17
genuinely have not, right? Disclaimer, disclaimer.
49:20
But another thing that I think
49:22
was, um... was on people's minds
49:24
and was a thing to root
49:26
for with this guy is we
49:28
are in the year of what
49:30
feels like open murders by corporations.
49:32
That Boeing guy, that second Boeing
49:35
guy, the whistleblower deaths that have
49:37
been happening in American companies are
49:39
like so undertone scary that I
49:41
think people were like yeah. you
49:43
cannot separate that in my mind.
49:45
It felt it really felt like
49:47
David and Goliath. Yes, because because
49:49
like when you look at Boeing
49:52
all that dude said was what
49:54
we already knew by the way.
49:56
The dude the dude that got
49:58
like mysteriously murdered in the parking
50:00
lot of his hotel room right
50:02
before he was supposed to testify
50:04
in court all that stuff. That
50:07
dude, all he did was he
50:09
had worked at Boeing for like,
50:11
I think, 19 years or something
50:13
like that. But he was like,
50:15
the plane door going to fly
50:17
off. We already saw the plane
50:19
door fly off. So he didn't
50:22
even have any secrets. He was
50:24
just about to say it in
50:26
court. And he mysteriously dies. A
50:28
dude who no one actually knows
50:30
where that dude is. I think
50:32
that that's a big part of
50:34
it. You think it'll change anything?
50:37
Huh, that's interesting. And I do
50:39
think there's a high chance there
50:41
could be, because there's a lot
50:43
of people out there that feel
50:45
they have nothing to lose, you
50:47
know. So you think the one
50:49
no? No, I don't think one's
50:52
enough, because I don't think that
50:54
health insurance companies are scared enough,
50:56
and there's like trillions on the
50:58
lot, like there's a lot of
51:00
money, right? And they can hire
51:02
security and do all of these.
51:04
But if it becomes a thing
51:07
of like, you know how Robin
51:09
Hood would like still from the
51:11
rich and get to the poor,
51:13
there's people out there who are
51:15
disgruntled and they shoot people high
51:17
up at health insurance companies. It
51:19
completely changed how they operate, but
51:22
I don't think one's enough. Not
51:24
that I'm trying to say people
51:26
should do more, please. Everything, disclaimer,
51:28
disclaimer. I don't want that smoke,
51:30
but I just don't think one's
51:32
enough. But I think if there's
51:34
copycats, it's game over. Yeah, I
51:36
also think more would be bad,
51:39
because a lot of people don't
51:41
have aim. Yeah. Like, like, there
51:43
are people who, who say, uh,
51:45
the whole sniping from far away
51:47
thing is, like, a thing in
51:49
the movies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. is
51:51
more real, like up close, that's,
51:54
you know, this is what's happening
51:56
in like, developing countries all around
51:58
the world, people who are like
52:00
running to clean up government, you
52:02
don't get got from far. Oh
52:04
my God. For the most part,
52:06
yeah, just someone comes up, even,
52:09
even think of like actually. Wasn't
52:11
it like a balcony? No, I
52:13
think they're a lot closer. He
52:15
was on a balcony, right? I
52:17
think they're a lot closer than
52:19
you think is what's always the
52:21
case. Yeah, I think he got
52:24
caught because yeah, MLK was on
52:26
a balcony, but he shot him,
52:28
I think in the picture they're
52:30
pointing at. Yes, they are. They're
52:32
like, there he is. Yeah. It's
52:34
one of those, it's one of
52:36
those things. You know, maybe I've
52:39
watched too many movies. I always
52:41
thought it was just like that
52:43
sniper thing and. People are super
52:45
far. Yeah, you know, can I
52:47
say talking about movies? I, again,
52:49
I don't, I don't, disclaimer, disclaimer,
52:51
I don't condone anything, blah, blah,
52:54
blah, blah. I was disappointed at
52:56
how he got caught. In a
52:58
MacDonnell? No. No, like what I
53:00
mean is like. You know, it
53:02
seemed so like, you know, biddip,
53:04
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb he wanted to kill
53:06
the sea, and everything after that
53:09
was a bonus. I think he
53:11
probably thought he'd be caught sooner.
53:13
Oh, interesting. Yeah, because there's like,
53:15
there's no, he had the weapon
53:17
on it, allegedly, because some people
53:19
say they planted stuff, but he
53:21
had a weapon on him, he
53:24
had a planted stuff, but had
53:26
a weapon on him, he had
53:28
a weapon on him, he had
53:30
a weapon on him, like he's
53:32
telling me a shadows, but maybe
53:34
Josh, you disagree, you disagree. I
53:36
will I only slightly disagree. I
53:38
first I thought what exactly what
53:41
when I heard that they even
53:43
had a suspect or that he
53:45
took his mask down or something,
53:47
I was like, this person's either
53:49
really dumb or they don't mind
53:51
getting caught. But I personally, this
53:53
is just me, I think he
53:56
was on the way to do
53:58
it again. I think that I
54:00
think where they caught him, what
54:02
they caught him with. It screams
54:04
someone who's not done to me
54:06
like that like like oh you
54:08
see I yeah I can take
54:11
that I think he was in
54:13
in I'm surprised the news hasn't
54:15
like said that or no one
54:17
that I saw on the news
54:19
has theorized that because to me
54:21
to have everything with you Like,
54:23
crack hands don't do that. Like,
54:26
to have everything on you from
54:28
the crime you committed days ago,
54:30
by the way, this stuff is
54:32
heavy after a while. You're not
54:34
going to lighten your load, throw
54:36
it in a trash can, two
54:38
states away or something. So, I
54:41
mean, my thing is, if this
54:43
kid is trying to get away,
54:45
his family owns two country clubs,
54:47
right? When you fly private, they
54:49
don't check. So all he has
54:51
to do is fly private. to
54:53
the other side of the country
54:56
and then take a bus into
54:58
Mexico. He already had the head
55:00
start of Central Park, which I
55:02
don't think people realize how much
55:04
he was not gonna get caught.
55:06
Also, the Central Park, this is
55:08
the one thing that's confused me.
55:11
The police said that he went
55:13
into Central Park and then appeared
55:15
on the other side without the
55:17
backpack. That's what they said. That
55:19
was the original statement, right? So
55:21
I don't know if you know
55:23
anything about this. The theory that
55:25
I've seen, right, is that a
55:28
lot of what people are saying,
55:30
because the police, and I don't
55:32
just mean NYPD, I mean any
55:34
police department, is never gonna go
55:36
out of their way, even if
55:38
it means telling the truth, to
55:40
make themselves look incompetent, stupid, corrupt,
55:43
whatever. And so there were some
55:45
people that were saying, this thing,
55:47
like the thing that you just
55:49
read, was when they were looking.
55:51
a different person and they were
55:53
wrong. Oh, that would make sense.
55:55
Jamie, so they were wrong about
55:58
that thing, which I think is
56:00
why they haven't said it again.
56:02
And now that he's got the
56:04
backpack, they were like, yay, at
56:06
the backpack the whole time. By
56:08
the way, can I just say
56:10
one of the funniest moments? I
56:13
think it was Eric Adams who
56:15
came out, he was like, we
56:17
saw this case using good old-fashioned
56:19
police work. It's like, no, someone
56:21
snitched. Yeah. It's just another example
56:23
of like where it's like, yeah,
56:25
it showed me how incompetent the
56:28
police was. It was nothing. Like
56:30
even now I'm like, you guys
56:32
got outsmotted by a kid and
56:34
literally got caught because someone in
56:36
McDonald's was like, oh, he's a
56:38
weirdo. Yeah, someone snitched and that
56:40
was it. like that was literally
56:43
the fact that they are not
56:45
giving that that worker the money
56:47
that's just trying to radicalize working
56:49
in McDonald's because I'm sure they
56:51
don't have health insurance and I'm
56:53
just like shocked yeah of class
56:55
solidarity shocks me I'm just saying
56:58
like you you robbed me of
57:00
60K I'm not saying I would
57:03
I'm just saying people have done it for
57:06
less. You're not saying you would. I just
57:08
think it's wild. You might buy a backpack.
57:10
Yeah, but maybe we're underestimating how much like
57:12
regular Americans do hate crime. Because if it's
57:15
like a just a regular person working at
57:17
McDonald's who's like, hey police, I think I
57:19
found him, that maybe they could be a
57:22
jury in New York. Like if they get
57:24
people from like, lots of queens and an
57:26
island who'd be like guilty. I hear you,
57:28
but I think Josh's theory is the best
57:31
I've heard and it's that because you don't
57:33
know what you're dealing with, because think again,
57:35
let's let's look at America through a larger
57:37
lens. Any shooter
57:40
that people talk about is shooting everyone
57:42
So we have had very few if
57:44
any instances of a like a targeted
57:47
single shooter that doesn't endanger another person
57:49
type even the person people always forget
57:51
at Trump's assassination somebody else died Like
57:54
no one talks about that right? It's
57:56
not like the bullet didn't kill an
57:58
human being. People are just like, oh,
58:00
thank God, nothing happened. I'm like, no,
58:03
no, no. There's a man who lost
58:05
his life. He was just standing at
58:07
the rally. So you get what I'm
58:10
saying? So it's very rare that anyone
58:12
who's shooting doesn't involve other people who
58:14
they either didn't want to or didn't
58:17
care to involve. Same with gang violence.
58:19
How many times are little kids shot
58:21
in the midst of gang? And then
58:23
the gangsters will be like, we didn't
58:26
want to do it. And communities, it's
58:28
like, we don't care. You did it.
58:30
So I can see somebody seeing that
58:33
guy in the McDonald's and like, ah,
58:35
man. That's why Josh's theory is completely,
58:37
I can see, because you don't know
58:40
what's about to happen, but I think
58:42
when it comes to jury time, it's
58:44
going to be a very different story,
58:46
because now people are like, oh, if
58:49
his lawyer is in any way, shape,
58:51
or form allowed to bring up anything
58:53
that United Healthcare does. I think it'll
58:56
be tough for a jury to give
58:58
this kid everything. I mean, he's a
59:00
rich kid, so he's not going to
59:03
have a public defender. Yeah. This is
59:05
going to be an interesting case. No,
59:07
his family is going to hire the
59:09
best possible as any parent should. This
59:12
is going to be the biggest case
59:14
ever. Christiano is going to be at
59:16
the courthouse worker that turned that dude
59:19
in. This is probably way off base,
59:21
but I think in their mind, they're
59:23
like, okay, people miss all the time.
59:26
And Trump did just work at McDonald's
59:28
for 15 minutes somewhere else. What if
59:30
that man? What if this do know
59:32
something? I don't know. I want to
59:35
catch anything. The crosshairs at the Fryer
59:37
Station. You know what? I'm curious about
59:39
the McDonald's employee. I would love to
59:42
hear from them. I think everybody... That's
59:44
the real third act in the story.
59:46
Oh, you think that's the real third
59:49
act? Yeah. Oh, interesting. Yeah, I'm just,
59:51
because they're a polarizing person. I feel
59:53
like that's the epilogue. Yeah, people say
59:55
if it was pop eyes, they would
59:58
have been like giving him more chicken.
1:00:00
then sent him on his way. I
1:00:02
think, you know, one of the great,
1:00:05
I mean, irony might be the wrong
1:00:07
word about this, but I was thinking
1:00:09
to myself, it's so amazing how almost
1:00:12
unanimous, all the CEOs of these companies,
1:00:14
literally, they, you know, they pulled down
1:00:16
their photos. They sent, do you see
1:00:18
the emails they sent to employees? Healthcare
1:00:21
companies have been sending, not manifest, what
1:00:23
do you call them, like, pledges. to
1:00:25
their employees to sign and the pledge
1:00:28
is like, I stand with my fellow
1:00:30
health care community and I believe that
1:00:32
no violence should ever be committed against
1:00:35
them. I pledge my allegiance to the
1:00:37
health care company that I work for,
1:00:39
insert name here, like literally that's what
1:00:41
they're going with. And then like none
1:00:44
of them went to work and it
1:00:46
was a whole thing. And I was
1:00:48
like, it's funny how now CEOs are
1:00:51
like, yeah, I work from home, work
1:00:53
from home. Yeah, you know. Yeah, they
1:00:55
were fully like, no, no, no, everyone's
1:00:58
got to be back in the office
1:01:00
and then very quickly they're like, no,
1:01:02
no, no, no, no, no, sometimes you
1:01:04
got to work from home, man, you
1:01:07
know, sometimes things happen in your life
1:01:09
and yeah, you just got to chill.
1:01:11
Josh, I, I have a question for
1:01:14
you that's a little controversial. If you
1:01:16
were on the jury, what are you,
1:01:18
what's your verdict? Oh, that's all I
1:01:21
know. Oh, okay.
1:01:23
Um, here's my thing.
1:01:25
I'm loving this already.
1:01:27
I would find him.
1:01:29
Yes. I would probably
1:01:31
end up finding him
1:01:33
not guilty by reason
1:01:35
of insanity. Oh, okay.
1:01:37
Okay. Christina. Um. So
1:01:41
she's going to find him hot
1:01:43
guilty. No. Oh, he did it.
1:01:45
My husband was like yesterday, like,
1:01:47
you're talking about this guy. Do
1:01:49
you think he's better looking than
1:01:51
me? Absolutely not. What are you
1:01:54
talking about? I was like, but
1:01:56
he doesn't have a beard. I
1:01:58
want we'd look with a bit,
1:02:00
but back to the matter at
1:02:02
hand. Can jury make sentencing recommendations?
1:02:04
Remember, you know, I'm an abolitionist.
1:02:06
I think they can in certain
1:02:08
cases. Yeah, so I would find
1:02:11
him guilty? Yes. I'd give him
1:02:13
probation. Oh, damn. That came out
1:02:15
of nowhere. I would give him
1:02:17
five years probation. Because you would
1:02:19
argue that he's not a risk?
1:02:22
Because I actually don't think, prison doesn't
1:02:24
work. All the research shows, prison doesn't
1:02:26
work. And I don't feel like he's
1:02:28
a danger to other people. Like, you
1:02:30
know, I believe in. Which other people?
1:02:33
You know, people like myself. He was
1:02:35
reading books by black authors going through
1:02:37
his good reads, you know? He's okay.
1:02:39
He's okay. I would, no, but like,
1:02:41
I, but I say this about like,
1:02:43
like, Murders a horrible thing, like I
1:02:45
experienced it in my family early this
1:02:48
year and it's been the first time
1:02:50
I actually really had to think about
1:02:52
like being abolitionist and how I feel.
1:02:54
So when it came to my family,
1:02:56
you know, everyone feels differently about it.
1:02:58
Like some people are like, like, they
1:03:01
need to spend forever in prison. I
1:03:03
do think if prison does what it's
1:03:05
supposed to do for people, you should
1:03:07
go there and be restored and hopefully
1:03:09
be left back into society. So that's
1:03:11
why I would find him guilty, because
1:03:13
he did take a life, right? He
1:03:16
did commit a murder. Maybe serve some
1:03:18
time and then the rest probation. Because
1:03:20
honestly, the kids of the man, he's
1:03:22
not the CEO of a health insurance
1:03:24
company. He's your dad. Yes. And they
1:03:26
have to live without their dad. This
1:03:28
is true. You know, and so it's
1:03:31
just like I think there should be
1:03:33
something in place because we have to
1:03:35
have some value for life, even lives
1:03:37
I despise. I'm like, your life has
1:03:39
value, right? So I'm like, I find
1:03:41
him guilty, maybe serve some time, but
1:03:44
I don't think he should spend the
1:03:46
rest of a life in prison, which
1:03:48
I think from a lot of murderers
1:03:50
shouldn't spend the rest of a life
1:03:52
in prison. Oh, damn. your life. He
1:03:54
is like a hot 22. That's your
1:03:56
life. He's gonna come out and eat
1:03:59
in his 40s. I'm just gonna put
1:04:01
it out there. That's your life. No,
1:04:03
I'm just saying. Norway and Sweden don't
1:04:05
even do a life sentence as 20.
1:04:07
I can't say the sentence because I
1:04:09
don't, you know, I can't say the
1:04:11
sentence. I think he should, because also
1:04:14
he should like kind of sit down
1:04:16
and think about what he wants to
1:04:18
do. I think he did when he
1:04:20
was carving the bullets. and then probation
1:04:22
and not like punitive probation probation with
1:04:24
a view of like you can now
1:04:26
contribute something to society and people would
1:04:29
argue he already did but like in
1:04:31
the positive way not like it would
1:04:33
argue he already did but like some
1:04:35
addition you know what I mean like
1:04:37
that's my that's my view I'm like
1:04:39
people who kill okay and also I
1:04:42
feel like If he was a black
1:04:44
guy, we'd probably be having a different
1:04:46
conversation right now. So, you know. Okay,
1:04:48
okay. Trevor, I'm so sorry. That's my
1:04:50
view. Do you mind? Based off of
1:04:52
Christiana's brilliant answer, I think I need
1:04:54
to change my answer. What are you
1:04:57
talking about? Yeah, yeah, I would probably
1:04:59
find him guilty and I would sentence
1:05:01
him to be the CEO of a
1:05:03
health care company. Not
1:05:09
so easy when you got
1:05:11
to do it, bro. What
1:05:13
about you, Trevor? So if
1:05:15
the back pain thing is
1:05:18
real, and if some of
1:05:20
the stories are true, and
1:05:22
if his lawyer very creatively
1:05:24
argued self-defense, I would have
1:05:26
a difficult time sending him
1:05:29
to prison. because
1:05:31
I think one of the hardest
1:05:33
things we grapple with in society
1:05:35
is again, I come back to
1:05:38
how we started. I myself wish
1:05:40
to live by the rules and
1:05:43
the laws that everyone else does,
1:05:45
but I do believe we live
1:05:47
in a society where that isn't
1:05:50
true. And I believe the more
1:05:52
power you amass, the more pain
1:05:54
you can inflict on other people.
1:05:57
And you're not held to the
1:05:59
same laws and the same punishment
1:06:01
as everybody else. And so it
1:06:04
is difficult because we ourselves in
1:06:06
the thing that we are trying
1:06:08
to in many ways reshape and
1:06:11
dismantle. So it's like, it's confusing
1:06:13
because you're in it, right? But
1:06:15
if somebody is unable or is,
1:06:18
if their life is being threatened
1:06:20
by this nebulous entity and they're
1:06:23
like, this is the only way
1:06:25
I can protect myself and others.
1:06:28
I would struggle to find them guilty based on
1:06:30
the evidence and a lot of that evidence for
1:06:33
me would be based on like this company have
1:06:35
we shown that they actively try to not pay
1:06:37
for people's health care how many people have died
1:06:39
because of their practices are they actively doing this
1:06:41
for instance like they had that AI software a
1:06:44
while ago where they had AI that was basically
1:06:46
approving or denying claims. And the numbers I say
1:06:48
might be off, but I think I remember them
1:06:50
correctly. This thing was denying like 90% of the
1:06:53
claims that were coming through. And then they found
1:06:55
that it was making a mistake and they kept
1:06:57
it. They kept it because they were just like,
1:06:59
well, we just printing money here. And that's just
1:07:01
one example of like what this company has been
1:07:04
accused of or found guilty of or do you
1:07:06
know what I mean? $400 billion in profit and
1:07:08
whatever, or revenue, it's like, they've been crushing it.
1:07:10
So I do not wish for the death of
1:07:13
anyone, but I'm like you, the thing has happened
1:07:15
now. Right? But it's a difficult one for me
1:07:17
to wrestle with because I do think we live
1:07:19
in a world where some people with the right
1:07:21
tools and everything can take anyone out. And if
1:07:24
they are blanketed by enough corporations and ideas, then
1:07:26
they are seen as a, you know? Maybe I
1:07:28
just see it from his family side, like his
1:07:30
parents, his siblings and his children. Completely. And your,
1:07:33
like, his life had some value to them. Because
1:07:35
like, for me, my parents, your parents aren't their
1:07:37
jobs. Like even Saddam Hussein's kids. my dad, you
1:07:39
know, like these very horrific people. Yes. And if
1:07:41
we believe like all life has inherent values. Yes,
1:07:44
but I'm arguing that the value of his life
1:07:46
is now not going to be, because remember I'm
1:07:48
also an abolitionist, remember for me it's based on
1:07:50
this, does he have a direct connection with this
1:07:53
company and were they doing something to him directly?
1:07:55
That for me has a big effect on it,
1:07:57
because I then go, hmm, it is difficult for
1:07:59
me. to then go, because someone would be like,
1:08:01
yes, but if you have a problem with the
1:08:04
company, take them to court. Good luck. Go try
1:08:06
that. You get what I'm saying? I'm trying to
1:08:08
figure out the ways we hold this young man
1:08:10
who's done this thing, which, yeah, for me, you'll
1:08:12
go to therapy and we shut him down and
1:08:15
make him accountable. Because I just, I just don't
1:08:17
think you should be able to kill people. I
1:08:19
don't think I don't think so either. I mean,
1:08:21
I want to add in this conversation, this conversation
1:08:24
is, I think all three of us agree. This
1:08:26
is not about being a CEO, by the way.
1:08:28
Like, CEO is like a loose title. People have
1:08:30
it on their dating profiles. So CEO is the
1:08:32
thing that I think can sometimes muddy it. I
1:08:35
think people should just ask themselves, like, you know,
1:08:37
from a corporation standpoint, from an organizational standpoint. Like,
1:08:39
why is it okay, let's say, for the US
1:08:41
government to go in and kill like El Chapo
1:08:44
or Osama bin Laden? Why do they do that?
1:08:46
Why do they do that? Right? They do it
1:08:48
because they go, look, we know that many people
1:08:50
involved in this organization that is taking people's lives.
1:08:52
But we figure if we can get to this
1:08:55
person, who's the head of the organization, we're making
1:08:57
the biggest difference, and that is what we're doing.
1:08:59
And then we, and I say we as the
1:09:01
collective, most people do not go, oh, the American
1:09:04
government murdered Osama bin Laden. I said that. Okay,
1:09:06
you say that, but most people do not. They'll
1:09:08
be like, no, no. They went off to the
1:09:10
guy and they got him, okay? And El Chapo's
1:09:12
alive, but you get on saying, they shot Pablo
1:09:15
Escobar. like, no, like, was
1:09:17
a chase. They got him
1:09:19
on the roof. They
1:09:21
shot the dude, on the roof, they
1:09:24
And so okay? And saying in
1:09:26
a weird way weird way on a
1:09:28
I'm saying on a
1:09:30
jury, by the way. Yeah,
1:09:32
yeah. I'm not condoning. agreeing
1:09:35
with, not agreeing with, because
1:09:37
everyone has a different
1:09:39
way to solve their issues.
1:09:41
their issues. I right, I would
1:09:44
probably just tweet a
1:09:46
lot. I'm just gonna put
1:09:48
it out there. I
1:09:50
would send it out there. I would
1:09:52
tweets and see if I
1:09:55
can get a response. and
1:09:57
see He chose a different
1:09:59
method. We can't go
1:10:01
back on that method. We
1:10:04
so I would probably vote
1:10:06
I would probably the case is
1:10:08
either either like. yeah thrown out thrown
1:10:10
out or it would
1:10:12
just be a not guilty
1:10:15
or like a yeah there's probably other ones
1:10:17
probably other ones they give
1:10:19
you on like that
1:10:21
piece of paper. I I
1:10:24
forget what all of them
1:10:26
are from and order,
1:10:28
but I'll just be like,
1:10:30
I'll just know, like yeah we know
1:10:32
we we find it we find man,
1:10:35
pretty messed up. This was
1:10:37
all messed up. So all
1:10:39
messed up so that's how I
1:10:41
see it. It's gonna be
1:10:44
the trial of the
1:10:46
century. of really will. Let's
1:10:48
be honest. will let's I mean,
1:10:50
can you imagine can you
1:10:52
that kid that kid had Blue
1:10:55
Shield? blue she's Oh
1:10:59
wait, that CEO that be like, like,
1:11:01
oh man. It is, you're right, united is terrible.
1:11:03
Sign right. is terrible. Blue Shield,
1:11:05
with Blue Cross, Blue
1:11:07
Shield month. my friends, Well, you
1:11:09
know what, my friends, these
1:11:12
are some of my favorite conversations to have with you
1:11:14
because we have no facts. Just feelings.
1:11:16
Just feelings, All all speculation. And if you have
1:11:18
listened to you have listened to this
1:11:20
entire conversation, I remember what I
1:11:22
told you at the beginning. None
1:11:25
of this is of this is true. None
1:11:27
of this is confirmed. of this None
1:11:29
of this is factual. Josh Christiana and Trevor Trevor
1:11:31
do not stand behind anything that
1:11:33
Josh, Christiana and Trevor have said. and
1:11:35
This is our disclaimer. This is our disclaimer. But yeah,
1:11:37
thanks thanks for listening. What
1:11:49
Now with Trevanoa is produced by
1:11:51
Spotify Studios in partnership with
1:11:53
with Day Productions. The
1:11:56
show is executive
1:11:58
produced by Trevanoa, by
1:12:00
Trevanoa Sinaz Yamine and Jodi Avigan.
1:12:02
senior producer is
1:12:04
is our producer. Slaughter
1:12:06
is our producer. Music, Thank
1:12:08
you so much
1:12:10
for listening. Join
1:12:12
me next Thursday
1:12:14
for another episode
1:12:16
Hannah's Now. Thank you so
1:12:18
much for listening. Join me next
1:12:20
Thursday for another episode of What
1:12:22
Now.
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