0:02

Welcome to the Dad Edge Podcast.

0:04

The Dad Edge Movement creates leaders of men,

0:07

leaders of families, and leaders of

0:09

communities. We will not only

0:12

impact this generation of fathers, but the

0:14

next generation as well. The

0:16

kids we are raising will have better chances

0:18

and odds stacked in their favor because of

0:20

the amazing example that their fathers emulated for

0:23

them. We are here

0:25

to change the world. We are

0:27

here to change relationships. We

0:29

are here to positively disrupt this generation

0:31

of fathers so no man goes to their

0:33

grave with regret. We

0:35

disrupt the drift of busyness and replace

0:38

it with razor focused intention, passion,

0:41

purpose, and direction. We

0:44

are the Dad Edge and we are

0:46

here to change the game. Hey,

1:02

what's up, Dad Edge Nation? Hope everybody's doing well.

1:04

My name is Larry Hagner. I am your host

1:06

and founder of this podcast, Show and Movement. Welcome

1:09

to the Dad Edge. If you're new here, welcome,

1:11

welcome. If you're a new dad, doesn't

1:13

matter if you've been a dad for

1:15

five minutes, five years, maybe 50 years,

1:18

but we can all learn something

1:20

from each other and from our amazing guests,

1:22

which we have today. So if

1:24

you're new here, hey, check us out. We

1:26

launch shows on Mondays,

1:28

Wednesdays, and Fridays. Mondays

1:31

are interviews, so are Fridays. And then Wednesdays

1:33

we do a live Q&A with me

1:35

and Uncle Joe. Sometimes

1:37

I do those as a solo show, sometimes I don't. Sometimes

1:40

Joe and I get on the mics together. It

1:42

just depends on his schedule and mine, but most

1:44

of the time, hey, Uncle Joe, he's back. Before

1:47

we get started in today's podcast, I got a couple quick announcements

1:49

for you guys. One is I've got a

1:51

brand new book. This will be my fourth book. Coming

1:54

out, pre-orders will be available on May 28th. And

1:57

then on Father's Day, the full release of

1:59

this... The Of fatherhood. And

2:02

I go through several different things in

2:04

that book. Everything from literally the first

2:06

time you find out your wife is

2:09

pregnant all the way have to into

2:11

the teenage years and connection and and.

2:14

Connection and communication and patience

2:16

and forgiveness and marriage and

2:18

all these things like literally

2:20

the book is just talk

2:22

for was pretty much everything

2:24

that I've learned ever since

2:26

I started this podcast almost

2:28

ten years ago Sub. Really?

2:30

Poor my heart and soul into that are.

2:33

There is a faith based element to that

2:35

book as well. It was published by Morehouse

2:37

Polishing which is a huge publisher so it's

2:39

kind of cool. Been a will work with

2:42

am with a publisher for the first time

2:44

as of self publish my last three books

2:46

and I don't know where the publisher this

2:48

time is pretty darn cool. Also, if you

2:51

guys want to join us for the Data

2:53

Summit this year's can be October seventeenth and

2:55

eighteenth and Orlando Florida. This will be the

2:57

last year we're hosting the summit for quite

3:00

some time. It's not the worst, are going to

3:02

be doing a lot other events that on here.

3:04

Any boozer he to their heads cause I'm actually

3:06

comedians from really really cool things. In two thousand

3:08

twenty five they're going to be. A

3:10

little bit more personalized and ah,

3:12

I'm I'm thinking about doing retreats

3:14

that early. Fifteen to twenty men

3:16

didn't know massive air B M

3:18

B like in the mountains and

3:20

and do and hiking and doing

3:23

some really cool activities. and I

3:25

cooking together and masterminding together. and

3:27

I just doing full bore on

3:29

Friday may be anywhere from two

3:31

to four those events next year.

3:33

Two thousand twenty five to keep

3:35

your eyes peeled for that swell.

3:37

My guess the day is Doctor

3:39

Canoga and he otherwise. Is known

3:41

as Doctor. To say he's a

3:43

Harvard trained psychiatrist and he specializes

3:45

in the intersection of technology and

3:47

mental health. He's he's known to.as

3:49

Doctor K to millions of people

3:51

in the internet and he's the

3:53

cofounder of Healthy Gamer which is

3:55

a mental health platform that serves

3:57

that does for the digital dinner.

4:00

Ration and that's third generation. Quite

4:02

frankly, we're raising. He's inspired millions

4:04

of people with online content while

4:07

overseeing the mental health and and

4:09

coaching of thousands of young people.

4:11

He's widely regarded as the foremost

4:14

expert on video game addiction and

4:16

and most prominent mental health authority

4:19

for young people. When

4:21

is offline he's usually traveling gardening are grilling

4:23

with his family. he said dad as well

4:25

and married and today's five guess is very

4:27

fascinating to me. Eyes because I have four

4:29

boys and technology is something that we can

4:32

see like are always battling. you know his

4:34

parents and add today I learned a lot

4:36

of things from Not or K you hear

4:38

me com a challenge him a little bit

4:40

here and there because you know sometimes my

4:42

way is in I believe in it but

4:45

then again like he really opened my eyes

4:47

to this really cool kind of collaborative approach

4:49

when it comes to. Ah,

4:51

Know. We're. Raising our kids in

4:53

this more digital environment so eastern. Talk about

4:56

like what happens to our kids over time

4:58

and want to mean by that is is

5:00

like what happens to them. One hour and

5:03

a gaming and then what happens into two

5:05

hours and men's you know of three hours?

5:07

No ma'am. He also talks about

5:09

this more collaborative approach of like hey we're

5:12

gonna running game for you know, a little

5:14

while and then you know we're going to

5:16

go out and play. He also.saw the challenges

5:18

of it. hard for us to tell our

5:20

kids gotta play because quite frankly you know

5:23

you and I. We grew up in generations

5:25

where we just figured it out. We actually

5:27

don't. You remember how we learned how to

5:29

play as we just did it because our

5:32

choices were very limited this day in age.

5:34

That is not the case. There's a plethora

5:36

of things that kids can simply just consume.

5:38

And sit there and just consume. It

5:40

consumes a when we tell him go

5:42

place there like really are that looks

5:45

like he's also going to talk about

5:47

what abstract problem solving is all about

5:49

what that means to us. He's got

5:51

this more for step approach as in

5:53

are not necessarily going and like a

5:55

bull on a Chinese shops restricting screen

5:57

time and and all the different things

5:59

from. This collaborative approach of like for

6:01

instance he talks about you take one month

6:03

and just a liar kids to play but

6:06

but be very young keep that line of

6:08

communication open and for one month it's really

6:10

try to understand your kid of understand the

6:13

motives like why do they want to game

6:15

so much one of the getting from at

6:17

what are they enjoy about it was triggering

6:19

them all these different things be really talked

6:22

about the conversations that we can have better

6:24

So much more for for than just be

6:26

I know. You. Know it's you

6:28

only get screen time for thirty minutes

6:30

a day and that's it. Sandoval for

6:33

us. As non Doyle for a kid

6:35

I also understand that approach that because

6:37

I I've done that approach myself but

6:39

he he is a Harvard trained experts

6:41

and damn. The a lot of really

6:43

good things a Saturday. so without further ado, we're

6:46

going to jump right in. an orgasm joy to

6:48

they. Had. A Doctor K: What's

6:50

going on Man walking the data as my

6:52

friends. Thank you so much Where it's awesome

6:54

to be here it's awesome the have a

6:56

man. Let's start out with this. I know

6:58

we're going to talk my gaming or madame

7:00

a mental health I it. Is

7:02

that really even a problem? I that can't be

7:04

a problem like nobody's I spend tons of on

7:07

screens and games and all that early. Yeah.

7:09

I mean it's it's a great question, right? So

7:11

I think I think a lot of people are

7:13

confused by it being a problem. Like people are

7:15

like ira understand why you can't stop. Com

7:18

And and I think especially like that's because

7:20

a lot of us like grew up playing

7:22

video games like I grew up playing video

7:24

games and they just weren't quite as addictive

7:26

as they are now are not not quite

7:29

addictive. There are nearly as addictive. But

7:31

ina we absolutely or scenes huge problems

7:33

now. So even though a lot of

7:35

people are skeptical and they have good

7:37

reasons to be skeptical. Because.

7:40

Generally speaking, You. Know things

7:42

have changed that quickly, but the

7:44

rate of change and technology is

7:46

so rapid. That even a

7:48

lotta dads who grew up playing games like

7:50

it's just like night and day. it's become

7:52

a completely different product. And

7:55

so despite the skepticism, it is

7:57

a huge and rising problem. So.

8:00

I think about twenty ten the rates

8:02

a video game addiction were around six

8:04

percent of the population. And. Keep in

8:06

mind that like the whole population, but I don't know

8:09

whole lot of grandma and Grandpa who are addicted to

8:11

games. And

8:13

now the rate is probably closer to twelve

8:15

percent. So worse, we seem like a double

8:17

a doubling in the rate. In

8:19

about ten years. So

8:22

so the problem is just getting worse

8:24

because games are getting more addictive and

8:27

also we as parents. Like.

8:29

We learn a lot of our parenting from our parents.

8:32

Bought our parents didn't have to struggle as

8:34

much with us with relation to technologies we

8:37

do with our kids. right?

8:39

so we don't with a lot of parents, feel kind

8:41

of caught off guard and not quite sure what to

8:43

do. We don't necessarily have

8:45

the skills in our parenting tool set to be

8:48

able to deal with it. Would

8:51

games as you grow plants and two

8:53

years ago he or were you go

8:55

to games Yeah so A So I

8:57

mean I grew up playing like Nintendo

8:59

entertainment system like and school Mario and

9:01

Zelda. but then I really ran into

9:03

problems with like the first generation of

9:05

online gaming. So when I

9:07

was growing up like you could beat a

9:09

game and you could be done by the

9:11

I I failed out of college playing like

9:14

online multiplayer games like Starcraft Warcraft Three. Were.

9:16

Like you can never either. You're never.like you

9:19

can always find more matches and always play

9:21

more especially when it became problem. I've

9:24

heard that's one of the biggest problems I've

9:26

had. I've had a couple of videogame experts

9:28

and mental health come on the podcast and

9:30

I remember when Cam a deer came on

9:32

the show honey he talked about one of

9:34

the one of the biggest problems on the

9:36

biggest bear trap are games is they don't

9:38

have an end. And. You can like

9:40

literally like I remember playing Atari in are you can

9:42

we blow up rocks without yards for so long and

9:44

the new like Organdy To Move On or Space Invaders,

9:47

Herbs and even like Mario and Zelda and all I

9:49

like. I grew up on Nintendo and all that. but

9:51

even like Mike Tyson's Punch Out, you know you fight

9:53

Mike Tyson at the end of the game. it's you

9:55

beat him or you don't let the end of the

9:57

game me move on. But yeah these games like and.

10:00

Fortnight and I like black ops

10:02

like Sniper and Mike all these

10:04

are was were the other ones

10:06

that are. The escort

10:09

nights big right now. Valor and his

10:11

big league of legends don't a to.

10:13

I mean, there's there's all kinds of stuff. The.

10:16

And they all says that one of the

10:18

biggest problems as they just quite frankly don't

10:20

have an ending you'd just like an incident

10:22

my journey as ours. Absolutely right. So so

10:25

I and I think that's the way that

10:27

they're being designed. So now when game developers

10:29

are developing a game. And

10:31

I think we really saw this a lot.

10:33

with like the first round of massively multiplayer

10:35

online rpgs like World of Warcraft like I

10:38

think World of Warcraft is now. You

10:40

know? I mean I remember a kid. I came out

10:42

I think when I was in college. So this was

10:44

like back in the early two thousands. And.

10:47

That game is still you know. Has an active

10:49

user base of millions of people playing a monthly

10:51

fee. And. So this game is literally

10:53

been around for like twenty years. And

10:56

and they just keep on releasing new content.

10:58

New content, new content. It just doesn't That.

11:01

He. So. What?

11:05

Are what are some at like fortnight we talk about

11:07

that one from the. That's.

11:09

One that. I.

11:11

Hear about a lot. Man.

11:14

You know, my kids. They've. Played

11:16

it. But. They don't actively play it

11:18

so I can our house like they

11:20

just the only video games that we

11:22

really play in this house is Madden.

11:24

Like locals play Madden like we like

11:27

the sports games and quite frankly they

11:29

have an end right? Like after you're

11:31

done with gaming, move on rights. But

11:33

I'm so many Zelda games like Fortnight

11:35

and and in the ones that you

11:37

mention like and I know fortnight like

11:39

to be deal is like the skins

11:41

and it's also like. The other thing

11:43

too is that that the battle that

11:45

we're facing is that you. Are

11:47

kids fine community. In.

11:50

This video games now which like a for up

11:52

for you and I to play Super Mario Brothers

11:54

growing up. Agree. Had to be

11:56

sitting. In. Somebody else living

11:58

room our own next. Shoulder to shoulder

12:00

with whoever we're playing with, you just sit. There

12:02

wasn't anything online, but now there's like an entire

12:05

community based around it. and kids play it, you

12:07

know. and night they come back to school and

12:09

x daily guy like this and this happen. Yeah,

12:11

it's like it's like this perpetual community that we're

12:13

fighting to. Not just a game, right? Yes

12:16

I mean I think that's where where either

12:18

a couple different things sacked I think about

12:20

one as we can talk about fortnight specifically

12:22

but I think this is what we try

12:24

to outline and and Padres healthy gamer which

12:26

is like. I. Think see in

12:29

our day. Games where

12:31

recreation. But. Now what

12:33

a lot of parents are running into. Is

12:35

there some? It's so much more difficult because

12:38

your kid. It's not just recreation. So

12:40

if you take your kids game away,

12:42

you are socially ostracizing them. Yet.

12:44

Is that they can't engage with kids the next

12:47

day? Sorry. I was talking to a school teacher

12:49

who was telling me that he's into a second

12:51

grade school teacher. One hundred percent of the boys

12:53

in her class by fortnight, Eighty percent of the

12:55

girls in her class by fortnight. And.

12:58

That's just what the reality is. So now

13:01

what happens is any time Apparent tries to

13:03

set limits on their kid. They

13:05

are running up against so much more resistance

13:08

because you're not just taking the game way

13:10

you're taking away their social status. You're taking

13:12

away their social engagements. You're basically giving him

13:14

a prison sentence. In. We

13:16

don't quite understand that. and then what

13:18

ends up happening is that the child

13:20

pushes eight or against us so much

13:22

harder. Because. We're taking so many

13:25

different things way and you mentioned skins and

13:27

stuff like that? Where a lot of kids

13:29

you know their their identity is wrapped up

13:31

in their virtual creation. And that

13:33

to is like almost intentional

13:35

because video game designers realized.

13:38

That. If I can give someone

13:40

the ability to customize their appearance, Just.

13:43

Like clothing designers realized, if

13:45

I can give someone the

13:47

ability to customize their appearance,

13:49

That. Is something that human beings value. And

13:52

now if we think about if I

13:54

most the time I spend with my

13:56

kids is online, the version of me

13:58

that they see as my virtual. And

14:01

I remember when I was playing like World of

14:04

Warcraft or a World of Warcraft like twenty years

14:06

ago. There. Was a particular outset

14:08

that you could only get by achieving

14:10

a certain rank in like competitive play.

14:12

And when you saw someone in a

14:15

city of ten thousand people running

14:17

round virtually walking by with that thing

14:19

you realize that this person is

14:21

a little in the top like one

14:23

outta ten thousand people like. You.

14:26

Know you could see that. And there's a social

14:28

status that comes with at. The last

14:30

crazy thing that parents have to deal with now that

14:32

they didn't use to is that you know we used

14:34

to be able to say like are you need to

14:36

stop playing video games Why parents that he got to get

14:38

a real job at some point. But.

14:40

Now kids are like this is my

14:42

real job. I'm gonna go pro at

14:45

the age of sixteen like you. I

14:47

worked with one person who became a

14:49

multimillionaire the age of sixteen. And.

14:51

The parents are actually supportive. So now you like

14:53

Even as parents, we can't make the argument that

14:56

like oh, you have to go do something in

14:58

the real while the like. This is my job.

15:00

Like Streamers, Content creators, professional gamers. this is a

15:02

career. So if you're if you've got a fifteen

15:05

year old son who's like i wanna go pro

15:07

That's why I want to play for ten hours

15:09

a day. This is my passion. Parents.

15:12

Are kind of not sure exactly what how to handle

15:14

right? Like how do you know if this really is

15:16

my kid? As gifted do I have like you know

15:18

you play Madden but like you know what would you

15:20

were? How do I have a a sports prodigy here?

15:23

Said. Super complicated. There's so much more than

15:25

games. And it's

15:27

It's interesting because what I've noticed even

15:30

hear my my local area. There's.

15:32

Ice there's a few I schools the

15:34

heavies force. Was. Moved

15:37

was on my Am I. Why?

15:39

Like why? why? Why does? why do you want

15:42

since uses you about that Larry. I'm

15:44

glad you like. A I guess

15:46

the thing is I I don't understand it

15:49

near to me like sportsman yards of physical

15:51

sport in are like even if you're playing

15:53

chess like gift to do that like physically

15:55

where somebody else but like. I. Now

15:57

I'm I guess I just don't really understand.

16:00

What Is the? What's. The

16:02

big. The big draw the big

16:04

attraction you our to you to in

16:06

our kid has to go pro I

16:08

know they make millions dollars and that's

16:10

that's a huge like current rights but

16:12

this the story I'm also tell myself as.

16:15

You're. Likely to probably make millions and

16:17

millions of dollars doing he spores as

16:19

you are to get into the Nfl.

16:21

Is that correct or not? Or a

16:23

moron com a it's a it's a

16:26

great question so we did some interesting

16:28

analysis. I'm. Where we

16:30

analyze like economically like one of the

16:32

what's the likelihood of going pro and

16:34

it it depends so highly. So I

16:36

generally speaking, we try to equip parents

16:39

with the right information, so I I

16:41

think the chances of becoming a successful

16:43

professional gamer are exceedingly slim. Probably.

16:46

Some maybe somewhere close to the Nfl. I'm

16:48

not sure exactly what the rates are for

16:50

the Nfl By think a lot of things

16:53

that kids don't realize is the lifespan, the

16:55

career of a pro gamer. Guess how long

16:57

the average plump pro gamer place professionally. I.

17:01

Mean. You're.

17:04

Yeah. You're pretty close Somoza Friends

17:06

Pro Gamers: The average lifespan as

17:08

eighteen months. So what a

17:11

lot of kids don't realize is they're

17:13

investing their like i want to go

17:15

pro and you're investing five years and

17:17

be averages eighteen months and this also

17:19

includes some people who will be pro

17:21

gamers for ten years. So. Lot

17:23

of pro gamers will like drop out within six months

17:25

because are just not good enough. The other thing a

17:27

lot of kids don't realize as you can go pro

17:29

in one game but like. What? Happens when

17:32

the sequel comes out. What?

17:34

Happens when everyone's responding to different day.

17:36

So. Fortnight was really big and and Valerie came along.

17:39

And so like the other really tricky thing about

17:41

at we work with a lot programmers. I work

17:43

with lot of them and there's a lot a

17:45

job in security because use don't know if the

17:47

game is is errands. Been supplying a year from

17:49

now. right? You can't control that at

17:51

all. So. It's it's. quite bleak.

17:55

What about just? So. does

17:58

it help us to as

18:00

parents to have screen time limits. Like

18:03

so like hey, you know, you can

18:05

absolutely play some video games, but the

18:08

window of time is from six to seven p.m. And

18:10

then after that, we just don't play video games anymore.

18:12

Yeah, so that's the approach that a lot of parents

18:14

take, but I think that like, you

18:17

know, that's not the philosophy that we think

18:19

works the best. So what

18:21

I kind of hear, Larry, is kind of

18:23

like, you're approaching this, pardon

18:25

me for saying so, but not fully understanding it, which is

18:28

fair enough. And then also like

18:30

trying to do a good job of parenting, right, because

18:32

you're kind of confused, like why would they want to

18:34

go pro, like what is this? So I think the

18:36

first step that you've got to do is understand, right?

18:39

So anytime you want to be an effective parent,

18:42

knowing what is going on with your kid will

18:44

be like the most important thing. So

18:46

that's why, like it's kind of bizarre, but when people come

18:48

to us, what we sort of recommend and this is kind

18:50

of outlined in the book is like, for the first month,

18:52

you're not gonna set any limits with your kids. You're

18:55

gonna actually sit them down and say, I'm

18:57

not gonna punish you, take anything away. For

18:59

one month, I just want to understand why

19:03

you're playing this game and what you like about it.

19:06

And what we tend to discover is that a

19:08

lot of the reason that kids play games

19:10

is because they are using it as

19:14

almost like self-medication. So

19:16

if we think about like kids who get addicted to

19:18

games, more likely to have ADHD, kids

19:21

who get addicted to games, more likely to

19:23

be bullied. So oftentimes, you

19:25

know, in my case, what happened is like, I

19:27

would get bullied on the playground. But

19:29

when I was playing a game, I was a

19:31

year younger than most of my classmates. So I

19:34

was like a five-year-old competing against seven-year-olds and like,

19:36

you know, if you're playing basketball and you're five

19:38

and everyone else is seven, you're just gonna get

19:40

crushed. And I didn't understand that, right? We're all

19:42

first graders. And then like

19:44

what ended up happening is when I played a video

19:47

game, like I could compete because then

19:49

they're not four inches tall than I am.

19:52

And so what we sort of strongly recommend is

19:54

you start by understanding why your kid is playing

19:57

the game. And Then what? We

19:59

also really believe. We've and as that you know,

20:01

the job of a parent is to prepare

20:03

your child for the world that they're gonna

20:05

inherent. In the the technology

20:07

that they're going to encounter is only going

20:09

to get more addictive. So. What

20:11

we really focus on his teaching: restraint

20:13

instead of restriction. Helping

20:16

your child set their own limits and

20:18

regulate themselves because otherwise you get into

20:20

this problem where you say no playing

20:22

after six o'clock Seven o'clock and then

20:24

kids will sneak it. You're a little

20:26

bit busy and then they realize you're

20:28

not watching C aren't working on the

20:30

same team. We get like into this

20:32

war of deception. Which depending

20:34

on what kind of parenting style you have

20:36

and what your circumstances are that can work.

20:39

But we're looking at things like single parent households

20:41

and like than people are over at. you know,

20:43

your axes and them and then you as a

20:45

plane, your fighting with the kids like you're using

20:48

the child as a tool to get back at

20:50

each other. You want your child to like you

20:52

more. See, you're not going to set limits is

20:54

all kinds of problems that come up when you

20:56

run into that kind of restriction approach. doesn't mean

20:58

that you shouldn't limit so I don't let my

21:00

kids play. Crazy. Amounts, but it's

21:03

really about teaching them, helping them

21:05

understand. like okay, how much do

21:07

you enjoy playing. What? Are

21:09

you get from at what's the alternative?

21:11

Less do some experiments let's understand and

21:13

that works way better. Interesting.

21:17

So. How do you are vicious? A

21:20

cab? And eight year old ten year old

21:22

yeah I to this playing for know. How

21:24

do you. And he do. He

21:27

has a great question. So A saw. I mean

21:29

I literally have an eight year old and this

21:31

is how I've done it. And we we've had

21:33

hundreds of pants go through our program now so

21:35

we know that this generally speaking works. So.

21:38

I think it starts for helping them understand, right? So what

21:40

I'll literally do with my kids as they wake up our

21:42

a are in the morning on Saturday and what are they

21:44

want to do? They want screen time right? First thing. And

21:47

then you gotta gonna give a little take a little. That's

21:49

my approach and and so we can say okay like all

21:51

you want to play, help me understand why you want to

21:53

play. Or watch how long.

21:56

Rights of this is a very

21:58

important question And then the. Then

22:00

I will also do is check in with them

22:02

about how much fun they're having. So the first

22:04

thirty minutes they have a ton of fun, the

22:06

next thirty minutes is less fun and then what

22:08

we know from sort of the neuroscience of dopaminergic

22:10

like tolerance. Is. That if you play

22:12

a video game. You know, The. Third,

22:15

our you play is not as fun

22:17

as the first salary play like literally

22:19

like the dopaminergic reinforcement goes down over

22:21

the. Playing. Schedule of the game. And

22:24

so then what all kind of do is I'll ask my kids one

22:26

hour and what he all want to do and I'll say we definitely

22:29

want to keep playing. Does they never want to stop? But.

22:31

If I ask them how much fun your how long. They'll.

22:33

Say like. I'm having a lot of

22:35

fun! But. I'll be angry about a towel,

22:38

get like irritated right said that they know that

22:40

is the a question you're asking. They know that

22:42

if they say they're not having fun, you're You're

22:44

equipping them with ammo. which is why we sort

22:46

of take that sort of restrictions on out of

22:48

a out about equation for a little while because

22:50

he your yard even be able to be honest

22:52

with your kids and your kids have to be

22:54

able to tell you that there are problems with

22:56

video games without you pouncing on it to take

22:58

them away and that's a big mistake the want

23:00

parents make. Them What happened is your

23:02

disincentivize in your child To be honest with

23:04

you about the downsides of gaming and then

23:06

it creates all kinds Provider of that was

23:08

clear but I can explain further. but. That

23:12

does a me. I remember back. Playing.

23:14

Video games myself. and you know, yes, like

23:16

the first. Your. Thirty minutes to

23:18

an hour was was awesome and then you

23:20

to sort of ice you can adjust. get

23:22

in this. A me I remember like kind

23:25

of feeling like even as a young kid like ours.

23:27

To. Sort of feel like ours lake in this

23:29

right? In a way like yeah, well there.

23:32

Is. There anything really better to do or

23:34

exact Wanna do it written down? You know?

23:37

I'm gonna go to Absolute right. So that's

23:39

the problem is that when you're in that

23:41

mode. Your brain does

23:43

not anticipate enjoyment from other

23:45

activities. So. Then what I'll do

23:47

one hour and is also the all want watch more

23:50

play more They'll say yeah some say okay we're going

23:52

to do an experiment. We're going to stop. Let's.

23:54

Go to the playground. And this is where

23:56

a lot of parents make a mistake because once they go to

23:58

the playground they think the job is. No are know

24:00

were got jobs just start sorting thirty minutes and

24:03

are being at the playground all ask them. Do.

24:05

Y'all wanna go home? And go back to

24:07

playing games. Are y'all having fun here and like

24:09

kids do, they don't want to stop. right?

24:12

So they'll say no, we want to be at the

24:14

playground longer and so then we'll say okay so it

24:16

sounds like coming and playground was not a terrible idea.

24:19

And. Then after we're done at the playground will

24:21

sit down and like maybe we'll have launch in.

24:23

Will talk about it a little bit right? So

24:25

what'd we learned today? What was your experience? and

24:27

one we learned today is not. I'm your dad.

24:30

I'm going to now teach you the lessons of

24:32

life. It's release literally asking them what was your

24:34

experience. So. Let's say we wake up tomorrow

24:36

and what would you like to do? Would you

24:38

like to go to the playground and play video

24:40

games? Or would you like to just go to

24:42

the playground? Would you like to just go Where

24:44

we just play video games and often times when

24:46

you use these kinds of techniques the kids realize

24:48

like actually we want to do both. right?

24:51

And then and now the dynamic is

24:53

completely changed. Because. Now the kid

24:55

is telling you. I want to do both instead of

24:58

the child trying to force them. Because.

25:00

If you ask your kid paid. you want to have

25:02

a cakes and cookies are the one of one or

25:04

the other you give him to have fun choices. They're

25:06

going to pick both. And.

25:08

So that's what we release really suit

25:11

for with our approach is to help

25:13

and gender their independence to build an

25:15

alliance between parent and child. Because I've

25:17

seen some really bad stuff when parents

25:19

are super controlling and not understanding the

25:21

kid and the worst thing is the

25:23

kid doesn't understand the parent. I've.

25:26

Had kids who will literally like pencil

25:28

lock up Power chords. And.

25:31

From. Parents will lock up Power Chords. Kids.

25:33

Will watch you tube tutorials to learn how

25:35

to pick locks. Wake up at one

25:37

in the morning. Pick. The

25:39

lock. Play. Playstation from one amplify

25:41

Pat Pete or Am lock it up again

25:44

and then like be really hard to wake

25:46

up for school like I've I've seen those

25:48

kinds of scenarios citing a problem when you're

25:50

like trying to restrict your child's gaming is

25:52

unless the all around the same team. Like

25:54

even if you win as a parent you're

25:56

going to lose. Refined

26:00

and way it is. Dude, I've

26:02

I've seen some bad cases. Would.

26:05

You say? to the Paris for Ice I

26:07

see this all time and I have them.

26:09

Podcasting are almost ten years and. You

26:12

will will put small clips of you

26:14

know experts in their field. You.

26:16

Know just so like are all used get what

26:18

you just said as an example. Let's

26:21

say we we added it out The

26:23

last two minutes of what you decide.

26:26

And. I guarantee you will

26:28

happen is. Because. As

26:30

he and every time is a put that on

26:32

social media. And. Be I. Well,

26:35

I'm the parent miseducated my law at

26:37

my house and period is way I

26:39

was raised in. You don't like it?

26:41

Well, you leave it eighteen Nice. It's

26:44

really, they're pretty direct and that kind

26:46

of thing. But I also understand. We.

26:49

Don't exercise that mentality in our house. Immune

26:51

Our kids do a Screen Times writes. I

26:53

would actually say our our approaches. Bit of

26:55

a hybrid of what you're talking about. So

26:58

we don't like sports force, but

27:00

there are times we do implement

27:02

force, but it's rare. it's more

27:04

collaborative. By. Arm it's also it.

27:07

It also falls back on like went with

27:09

our home is like So I for instance

27:11

if if my kids my. My. My

27:13

two older sons have cellphones rights. And.

27:16

In our we we constantly collaborate

27:19

with them on my case. Let's.

27:23

Let's only span like an hour on tic

27:25

toc in our whatever or whatever you're doing

27:27

and then what he wanted after that and

27:29

know and bits. Thank God they love fitness!

27:32

My. Kids go to the gym every day or and

27:34

will my oldest will be an Aussie and wrestling

27:36

to the he was. he's got a huge going

27:39

was go to state next year so they they

27:41

do find that balance right They don't like go

27:43

into these these screens and these video games that

27:45

kinda thing and we we lose him for like

27:47

eight to ten hours a day. However,

27:51

I'll I'll be really honest, man like, I've been

27:53

very guilty of taking the opposite approach on my

27:55

kids. Fight me on it. And. I'll be

27:57

like. The. real i grew when he plan

27:59

my Yeah, we're not. But I

28:01

want to, I know you do, but we're not. Like

28:03

you're just not. Like we're going out, we're gonna go

28:06

play some soccer, we're gonna play football, we're gonna go

28:08

outside. I don't, I mean, so a

28:11

big part of the book in our

28:13

program is setting boundaries and enforcing boundaries. So

28:15

I set limits on my kids too. I

28:17

think the really confusing thing for a lot

28:19

of parents is a lot of

28:21

the things that they

28:24

do are cultivating the

28:26

wrong behaviors. So I'll give you just

28:28

a simple example. So

28:30

like a lot of times what will happen is, you

28:33

know, you call your kid down for dinner and

28:35

you're like, dinner's ready at 7.30, like be down

28:37

there. And your kid starts playing at like six

28:39

o'clock. They're like, okay, fine. And

28:41

then you calm down for dinner and you're like at 7.15, like, hey,

28:43

you gotta come down in 15 minutes. 7.30

28:46

rolls around, they're not down. You yell up there, you

28:48

yell up at 7.45, you

28:50

yell up there at eight o'clock. Finally

28:52

at 8.10, you're angry, you go up

28:55

there, and you're like, that's it, no

28:57

gaming for a week. You get pissed. So

29:00

parents make this very, very, very common

29:02

mistake of setting a

29:04

boundary and enforcing a boundary at

29:06

the same time. So

29:08

they create a punishment when the child doesn't

29:11

comply. Now the problem is oftentimes

29:13

when we do that kind of boundary setting, I'm

29:15

not thinking in that moment about how busy I

29:17

am this week. I'm not thinking about the

29:19

fact that I have a work dinner. I'm not thinking about the fact

29:21

that I gotta do this and I gotta do this and I gotta

29:23

do this. So you kind of lay down the law. But

29:26

then what happens is oftentimes when we are

29:28

emotional as parents, the law that we lay

29:30

down is not thought through. It's

29:33

like, this is what I'm gonna do because

29:35

that's enough, brah. Like enough is

29:37

enough. Then what ends

29:39

up happening is usually the boundaries that we

29:42

set are difficult to enforce or they feel

29:44

harsh or your kid isn't a part of it

29:46

or whatever. And the biggest mistake that parents make

29:48

is that they don't enforce it themselves. Like

29:51

90% of parents that I work with do

29:53

not do a good job of boundary enforcement,

29:55

especially when they're setting it when they're angry

29:57

because they don't think about it. So then, then.

30:00

the parent falls into a really tricky situation,

30:02

which is that I said no games for

30:04

a week, but I don't have the ability

30:06

to enforce it all seven days, or I'm

30:09

kind of tired of being on top of you

30:11

for five days in a row, and the weekend rolls

30:13

around and I want to relax a little bit. So

30:15

then you kind of let it slide, or they

30:17

behave really well and you let it slide. So

30:19

there are a lot of reasons why we

30:22

enforce harsh boundaries and we let it slide. Now

30:25

what are you actually teaching your child? You're

30:27

teaching your child that once you set a

30:30

boundary, there are ways to make it slide.

30:33

And then kids get really, really

30:35

good at figuring out how

30:37

to get around your boundaries because they've

30:40

already learned that you're not going to be able to

30:42

enforce them. And so then we get into

30:44

this like power play kind of thing where

30:46

like, you know, you're enforcing a boundary and the kid

30:48

is fighting against you and it just doesn't work out.

30:51

So we're all about setting very,

30:53

very healthy boundaries and really holding

30:56

them. And there

30:58

are particular like even psychological techniques that you can

31:00

use so that you can do that really well.

31:02

I hear a couple things that I think y'all

31:04

are doing really, really well, which is basically the

31:06

antidote to this gaming problem. The

31:09

first is that it sounds like y'all are pretty

31:11

collaborative and there's like a pretty clear like alliance,

31:14

right? You're not the enemy. The

31:16

other thing that you've managed to do, which

31:18

makes it way easier, is you have helped

31:21

them recognize that there is like joy and

31:23

value outside of gaming. A

31:25

problem that a lot of parents struggle with

31:27

is that they haven't raised their kids in

31:29

a way to where it sounds like

31:31

your kid, your son is in high school, he wants to go

31:33

to state, that means high school. So like

31:35

a high school wrestler, right? But like there are

31:38

some kids like myself included. When I was in

31:40

high school, I was in a grand total of

31:42

zero extracurricular activities, right? So

31:44

as a parent, like y'all, you know, I think

31:47

this is what's so confusing for a lot of

31:49

parents is that the experiences of

31:51

your household, there are a lot of like implications

31:55

for the things that you've already

31:57

parented that will make your life

31:59

easier. Harder. And the whole

32:01

point of what we try to do as a

32:03

people haven't done that already. Then

32:06

how do you go about building that alliance?

32:08

How do you go about doing the damage

32:10

control? How do you go about understanding your

32:12

kid? And what we really recommend is what

32:14

What really works well as when kids play

32:16

video games are trying to accomplish something. So.

32:19

I want to feel good about myself. I want to

32:21

feel better than my peers. I want to be a

32:23

winner. Like same.

32:25

Reason your kid wants to compete at States. Is

32:27

scratches it activates the same part. Of your

32:29

brain and terms of challenge and triumph and hard

32:31

work and all that kind of stuff. Like.

32:34

Games will do the same thing in your brain. And

32:37

so then that that the goal is really like tapping

32:39

into that. and asking okay what is that why you

32:41

will act like to play the game will I feel

32:43

confident when I play again and then as a parents

32:45

of are going your kid and saying well. Would.

32:47

You like to be confident in the real

32:50

world and they're like absolutely. right?

32:52

I would love that. I would love to be

32:54

like these other popular kids. Like the jocks, like

32:56

the wrestlers, Whatever. And then then

32:58

then it's about. okay, so let's help. You do

33:00

that right. I recognized that's going to be

33:02

hard, but instead of just solving with the

33:04

video game, I want to help you build.

33:06

The Law said you. Just.

33:08

Recognize that building the like that you want

33:11

may need to. May require playing last

33:13

video games at some points. But

33:16

once the kids realize okay this is

33:18

what I want, my parents are gonna

33:20

help me get it. And.

33:22

It may be a solution outside of

33:24

gaming because most gamers actually like want

33:27

to split last. Like. I'd say

33:29

ninety nine percent of gamers I played with wanna

33:31

play was. The problem is

33:33

they can never admit it to their parents because

33:35

if they give their parents any ammo. The.

33:37

Parents can take the game one. Souls.

33:41

Have. Even when I was like when I was

33:43

failing out I wanted to play last like we

33:45

all want to be hit the gym more and

33:47

what want to be doing all those things? The

33:49

problem is that we we don't know how to

33:51

do that. So as a parent, once you tap

33:53

into that and use your child's own natural energy

33:55

and motivation that takes the fight completely away. Can.

33:59

we talk about that that not knowing

34:01

how, and I'll give you some

34:03

context. So my

34:06

fourth grader, second grader, they don't

34:08

have phones, obviously. I

34:11

feel like in a way I have to say obviously,

34:13

but to some people that- It's not obvious, yeah. It's

34:15

not obvious. So we have a rule in our

34:17

house, you don't get a phone till you're 14, until

34:19

you're in high school, just our rule. And

34:23

my son, my fourth grader, I think is

34:25

one of three. Three kids in his class

34:27

who doesn't have a phone. He

34:30

had friends over a couple weeks ago, two

34:33

of them. Both of them had phones.

34:37

And I know this sounds

34:39

crazy, but so there's

34:41

this, if

34:44

you've seen the movie Batman, two-face, he's

34:46

got two sides of them. One looks human and

34:48

one looks horrible. And that's my

34:51

vision of this whole thing. So I'll give

34:53

you an example. The

34:55

kids come over to our house, it's a beautiful 75 degree

34:57

day. And

35:00

we've got tons of stuff outside to do. Our house,

35:02

literally 15 feet from

35:04

our backyard is the subdivision

35:07

playground. And there's all kinds of stuff they can do. There's

35:09

a pond that our house overlooks that you

35:12

can fish and pull out eight pound catfish.

35:14

You can ride bikes along the bike trail, all this other

35:16

stuff. And these kids are like, not

35:19

my kids, but their friends are on their phones. And

35:22

my wife was so aggravated, and so was

35:24

I. She's like, guys, it

35:26

is beautiful outside. Go

35:28

outside and play

35:31

like kids. Get

35:33

off the phone. So,

35:36

and I was the same way. I was like, guys,

35:38

what the heck, go play. But

35:40

here's the thing. And they

35:42

went and they played, but it's almost like they

35:45

were lost out there. And Jessica was like, I

35:47

don't understand it. And I was like, I'm

35:49

aggravated too, but I understand it. She was like, what

35:51

do you mean? I was like, I've talked to these

35:53

experts, who talk about screen time. And

35:56

when your brain becomes this consumer, and

35:59

not a producer, I remember when I

36:01

was a kid, I would play with my

36:03

toys and my imagination would run wild. But

36:06

I didn't have the inputs that these kids

36:08

have, right? So that imaginary creative side seems

36:10

like it gets shut down. So when we

36:12

tell the kids, go play, I

36:15

think the biggest thing for them is, how

36:17

do I do that? Is that accurate? As

36:21

a busy parent, we can't possibly read every

36:23

single text message that our kids send out,

36:26

every single post, every single email,

36:28

or monitor their social media by

36:31

just simply diving into their phone for

36:33

several minutes, or maybe even hours per

36:35

day, trying to find certain

36:37

things that are unwanted. Bark,

36:40

you guys have heard me talk about this

36:43

app, Bark, for years now, and it's because

36:45

I've been a user of it for years.

36:48

Bark is an app that's been created by

36:50

parents, for parents, to offer

36:52

better and easier and more effective ways to

36:54

keep our kids safe online. It

36:57

does several different things, gentlemen. Basically, what Bark does

37:00

is it's an app that we

37:02

download onto our kids' mobile devices, their phones,

37:04

their iPads, their tablets, computers

37:06

even, and then it

37:08

operates in the background of their

37:10

device. And what it does is

37:12

it monitors all content, so searches

37:15

on the internet, as well as

37:17

emails, text messages, social media, you'll

37:20

get alerts, such as bullying,

37:23

predators, sexual content, suicidal

37:25

ideation, drug use, alcohol,

37:28

medically concerning content, and many, many more.

37:31

You can also manage your kids' screen

37:33

time from the actual app

37:35

itself. You can filter websites, and you

37:37

can even set location alerts so you

37:39

always know where your kids

37:41

are at at all times. Gentlemen,

37:44

I've been using Bark now for four years.

37:47

There was my life before Bark and

37:49

my life after Bark. The

37:51

cool thing about this app is

37:53

I've been able to have several

37:55

conversations around the kids my

37:59

kids hang out with. and some of the things that they're doing.

38:02

Some of the things that I've seen with social media, text

38:04

messages and that kind of thing, I'm gonna leave details

38:07

out of the privacy of my kids, but I will

38:09

tell you that using Bark is

38:11

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38:13

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our kids safe. Like I

38:46

remember like when I was a kid, I would

38:48

play with my toys and my imagination would run

38:50

wild, but I didn't have the

38:52

inputs that these kids have, right? So like that

38:55

imaginary creative side, seems like it gets shut down.

38:57

So like when we tell the kids, go

38:59

play, like I think the biggest thing

39:01

for them is like, how do I do that?

39:04

Is that accurate? So I

39:06

think what we're seeing is a atrophy

39:09

and this is what's so confusing for parents

39:11

is, we as parents take certain things about

39:13

our upbringing for granted. So

39:15

I too, like I used to play with the kids on

39:18

my street and we would play for eight

39:20

hours, but we didn't even have like, we'd maybe have

39:22

a ball or a bat, but most of

39:24

it was like free play. We would

39:26

make these imagination games and

39:29

so now what's actually happened is that we're

39:31

seeing an atrophy of that creative kind of play

39:34

because the rules are always set by the game.

39:37

So we'll also see this as a huge

39:39

problem where you tell your kid if your kid is

39:41

on the cell phone and you tell them to go

39:43

play. The other thing that we've

39:45

got to be super careful about is some kids don't

39:47

have the skills to socialize. So

39:50

let's kind of reverse the scenario. Let's say

39:52

that there's three kids who don't have

39:54

cell phones and one kid who's got a cell phone

39:56

at home. Let's take second grade, right? Because

39:59

they know. And

40:01

so now what happens is you take the kid with the

40:03

cell phone, you tell them to go play with the other

40:05

kids, the kid literally does not know how to do that.

40:08

Literally does not know how to engage with someone

40:10

because all of their mental

40:13

energy is spent in

40:15

something where the rules are set, right?

40:18

So they've already been given the rules. This is how

40:20

you win, this is how you lose, this is how

40:22

you improve. Everything is laid out for them. So if you

40:24

look at studies on gamers, this is really fascinating. So

40:27

gamers struggle with something called abstract

40:30

problem solving. So if

40:32

you look at a game, what a game

40:34

always does is gives you the objective and

40:37

it gives you the tools. So if

40:39

I'm playing like Madden, Madden's football, right?

40:42

Right. So like we've got, we

40:44

know that the goal is a touchdown and

40:46

I've got my players, the rules are set. There

40:49

are only a set number of combinations that I need to

40:51

engage in to accomplish the goal. So

40:54

when I do that for eight hours a day and then

40:56

I play this other game where there's a different

40:58

goal, other game where there's a different goal, other

41:00

game where there's a different goal, my brain never

41:02

learns how to break apart an abstract goal into

41:04

pieces. So get a job, become

41:07

independent, find a girlfriend. You can't find a

41:09

girlfriend. You don't walk down the street and

41:11

like, oh look, they're on the ground as

41:13

a girlfriend, right? Finding

41:16

a girlfriend is a complex

41:18

abstract process that gets broken

41:20

down into pieces which gamers

41:22

can't do, okay? They

41:24

don't know how to take like find

41:26

a girlfriend. That's why so many gamers are single because

41:28

they don't know how to break that thing down because

41:30

their whole life they've been told this is even you

41:33

have dating games where it's like here's the person, here

41:35

are the three dialogue options. You can pick this one.

41:37

If you pick the right one, you get some points

41:39

and she says yes and we'll go on a date

41:41

with you. You have these kinds of

41:43

things now. The flip side of it, I

41:45

was in a class at Harvard Business School and

41:48

I was given an assignment about

41:50

how to improve patient

41:53

flow through a particular clinic.

41:55

So this is like an assignment for like medical

41:58

doctors in a class learning. the

42:00

business of medicine. I go to my degenerate

42:02

gamer friends and I give them my homework

42:04

and they're able to come up with answers.

42:07

So I go in the next day, the professor

42:10

is there and I raise and he's like

42:12

what's y'all's solution? I raise my hand, I

42:14

plagiarize the work of my gaming buddies and

42:16

he's like that's an excellent solution, right?

42:19

So in this scenario, this is something they

42:21

understand because we have the goal, we've got

42:23

all the tools so they can actually do

42:25

that. There's a study by the Department of

42:28

Defense done in 2015 that gamers

42:30

have a better what's called fluid IQ. So if

42:33

you give them all the pieces to the

42:35

puzzle, they'll perform 20% better

42:37

than the average person. But

42:40

if you don't give them the pieces of

42:42

the puzzle, they struggle at figuring things out

42:44

themselves. So their abstract problem solving is

42:46

very, very poor, but their concrete problem

42:48

solving is actually above average because their brain

42:50

spends so much time doing it. So

42:53

for a lot of parents, we don't realize this

42:55

stuff and so it can be very

42:57

confusing for us like why does my kid do

43:00

this and not do this? When I grew up, it was easy for

43:02

me and we see this a lot, especially with

43:04

like socialization where you know a lot of people

43:06

are like having trouble like in

43:08

romance and don't know how to flirt and

43:10

don't know how to talk and everyone's texting

43:13

now. So we can't like understand body language

43:15

and tone and facial expressions. So

43:17

we're seeing like a large increase in anxiety

43:19

because those are the signals that usually reassure

43:21

us. I can pay attention

43:23

to your face and I can understand, okay,

43:25

this guy's like not doesn't dislike me. But

43:27

literally, if my brain is rusty, because I

43:29

don't see faces, right? So our

43:31

brain is used to seeing faces for 16 hours

43:34

a day, like that's how we've evolved. But

43:37

if I spend all my time in front of a

43:39

computer, the circuitry that analyzes faces

43:42

becomes rusty in the same

43:44

way that we forget a language in the same way that

43:46

we forget to draw, you know, like you will

43:48

lose if you don't use it, you lose it.

43:50

So we're seeing all kinds of problems that are

43:52

really confusing for parents, because we take

43:54

it for granted because our brains developed in a

43:56

particular way. And the whole problem is that the games

43:58

are changing the way. that our kids

44:01

brains develop. Wow.

44:05

So if we were to wrap just all

44:07

of this in a bow and

44:09

we were to take this more

44:12

collaborative approach, I mean

44:14

the kids, from

44:17

what you're telling me, they can't just be like

44:19

left to their own vices,

44:21

right? And you can't really have a parent

44:23

say, well I need a break too and I'm

44:25

not gonna deal with this and like just do your own thing

44:27

or whatever because we see that a lot too. Like

44:29

the parents have to work at this, right? Because we

44:32

kind of we have to be their guide of like

44:34

is it more like the how-to

44:36

or the other alternatives in life or you have

44:38

other options and here's what they look like and

44:40

I also think it's really fascinating

44:42

that the same thing that they're probably looking

44:45

for in games, right? That competitiveness that maybe

44:47

that edge or they just want to win

44:49

or they're good that they can find that

44:51

elsewhere but they just necessarily if

44:54

I were to tell my kids like or

44:56

anybody be like, hey go outside and play,

44:59

right? And what I noticed was with and I'll give you an

45:01

example of when the kids were over here, the same kids I'm

45:03

telling you about, I finally just

45:05

got up to the point where I was like I

45:07

just can't watch this anymore. So I went out my

45:09

backyard and I played football with these four kids, two

45:11

were mine, two were not and

45:13

but it took me like actually

45:16

like creating like

45:18

hey who wants to come

45:20

up with like the first play, right? And then we

45:22

do because we're playing football and then like who wants

45:24

to come up with the second play? But I had

45:26

to like engage them. They had no idea what to

45:28

do or how to play. It felt like unless

45:31

I was more or less more or less there to

45:33

be their guide, not the controlling guy but like just

45:35

the guide, right? That pretty accurate?

45:37

Absolutely. So I mean I love that example

45:40

because it illustrates so many things, okay? So

45:43

the other thing that even I've realized

45:45

is that I have to explicitly teach

45:47

my child things

45:50

that I never had to be taught. So this

45:52

is what's so confusing for parents, right? Because we

45:54

just picked it up because on

45:56

Saturdays when I was growing up, I

45:58

mean occasionally but even And occasionally, my dad

46:00

would grab the football, we would go outside, we'd toss

46:03

around the ball and spend some quality time together, we'd

46:05

go to the lake. Like these were all things that

46:07

were automatic. So if you think about it, we don't

46:09

explicitly teach our kids how to talk. They

46:12

just pick it up because they hear us talk. So

46:14

we learned so much about socialization, so much

46:16

about how to deal with unstructured play because

46:18

it was natural around us and we picked

46:20

it up. So this is what's confusing for a

46:23

lot of parents is that they

46:25

never think to teach certain things

46:28

because we never had, we were

46:30

never taught and we never formally learned. So it's great

46:33

because if you're thinking about what you're doing and then

46:35

you're modeling the right behavior and then the cool thing

46:37

is their brains are designed for it, so you don't

46:39

have to do that a whole lot, right? So you

46:42

do that a couple times, then they'll figure it out.

46:44

You can show them, okay, even it's a brilliant question,

46:46

who's going to do the first play? So

46:49

even in that point, you are signaling

46:51

to them that there is

46:53

a first play, who is doing the

46:55

first play? That means we're all going to take

46:57

turns. That means this is going to be repeated

47:00

and now you're teaching them how to play, okay?

47:03

And animals do this too, right? Like animals will

47:05

like when you've got a little tiger cub, like

47:07

the mama cub will like swat it or bite

47:09

it and then the kid learns, the cub learns

47:11

how to play. So there are

47:13

a couple of things about this. You also mentioned that

47:16

parents have to be more engaged and this is where

47:18

a lot of parents feel like they don't have the

47:20

energy to go that extra mile for their kids and

47:23

that's where thankfully things

47:26

work out because right now the majority

47:28

of parents are spending so much energy

47:30

trying to regulate this behavior that they

47:32

have nothing left in the tank. The

47:35

cool thing is that once you build an alliance with your

47:37

kid, once you kind of take a step back, once

47:39

you listen to them, once you understand them, once

47:42

they start doing some of the lifting. So

47:44

one of the things I've learned as an addiction

47:46

psychiatrist is you cannot be sober for anyone else.

47:49

I've seen tons of parents try. I've seen

47:51

tons of kids try. I've seen tons of

47:53

spouses try. My husband

47:56

or wife has a problem with alcohol. I'm

47:58

going to control it for them. I'm going

48:00

to dump out all the alcohol. I'm going to make

48:02

sure I'm going to breathalyze them every night." You have

48:04

people who try to control someone else's addiction. It doesn't

48:06

work. So the key

48:08

thing right now is that oftentimes parents

48:11

feel like they don't have energy because

48:13

their child is working against them. And

48:16

the moment that your child starts working with

48:18

you, you will be amazed at how much

48:20

more energy you have, right? Now

48:22

if you really stop and think about if I'm not

48:25

chasing my kid down to do their homework, I

48:27

have more bandwidth to decompress myself, then

48:30

I feel better, and then I'm more

48:32

positive with my kid, and then I

48:34

say, hey, let's toss the football around.

48:36

And even my emotional positivity will

48:38

be infectious towards the kid. So we

48:40

really see a reversing of the whole

48:42

cycle where everything

48:44

kind of turns around as soon as you and

48:47

your kids start working together instead of working against

48:49

each other. Because both of y'all are putting in

48:51

energy and you're not getting anywhere. That's

48:54

got to change. It makes so

48:56

much sense. I'm so glad you cleared this

48:58

up because I'm not kidding, man. When

49:02

I was out playing with the kids, in the back

49:04

of my mind, I was like, why do I have to

49:06

teach y'all how to play? What

49:09

the heck, right? But you're right. Yeah.

49:12

And I think there's another huge problem that we try

49:14

to address, which is that I think something – a

49:16

new skill that we are going to have to do

49:18

as parents, which is going to sound completely crazy but

49:20

is going to make perfect sense, is

49:23

when you saw these two kids on their cell phones,

49:25

did you talk to the parents? No.

49:28

Why not? I felt like

49:30

I was ratting them out. I felt like –

49:33

and plus, I

49:35

get the feeling that this

49:38

is just the norm. Even

49:41

my older boys, my

49:43

older boys will be like

49:45

– because we'll talk about screen time and they'll

49:47

be like, so is on his phone for

49:49

eight hours a day. I was like, well, he doesn't

49:51

live here. You know what I

49:53

mean? I think it's like the

49:55

norm, right? Absolutely. This is exactly

49:57

what I mean. The world is changing and we as parents

49:59

– have to adapt with it. And one

50:02

of the biggest things that we do that

50:04

is, is can turn everyone's life around is

50:06

for parents to start talking to other parents.

50:09

Because I can guarantee you that if

50:11

those two kids are on their cell phone

50:13

the whole time they're at your house, their

50:16

parents are struggling with it at home. There's

50:19

no way that they're not there's no way those parents

50:21

don't like they realize it's kind of a problem. They

50:23

just don't know. Because then what what are they thinking?

50:26

They're like, I'm struggling with this at home. But do

50:28

they call you? Do they say like,

50:30

hey, make sure that they're not on their phone? Because they

50:32

feel like, okay, I can't tell this person how to

50:34

parent. I can't ask them to like step in

50:36

and parent my kids. It's embarrassing, right? There's all

50:39

kinds of reasons. But we as parents don't communicate.

50:42

And if you think about it, this

50:44

just allows our kids to run wild with

50:46

technology. There's a really fascinating

50:48

study about marijuana use in high

50:51

school. And what people were

50:53

looking at is what

50:55

kind of parenting protects against drug use

50:57

in high school. And what

50:59

the really interesting thing that the study

51:01

found was that you can be whatever kind of parent you

51:03

want. But as long as there is one cool

51:07

parent in the friend group,

51:09

they'll all use pot. All

51:11

you need is one permissive parent. And

51:13

then that's the person's house that they

51:15

always get go over to and get high. Right?

51:18

So what we really need to do as

51:20

parents is like talk to each other way

51:22

more. So what we'll recommend is like set

51:25

up a call with your kids friends. And

51:27

just be like, hey, y'all, I just

51:30

wanted to like touch base about like technology

51:32

use and screen time. I'd love to learn

51:34

about how y'all are handling it. We're thinking

51:36

about handling it this way is

51:38

are y'all down to like get together and talk

51:40

about it? Because right now

51:43

what's happening is they're all on one team.

51:45

And they're playing football.

51:48

But you go on the field and you're a solo

51:50

parent and it's versus a team of kids. And

51:53

then each parent is alone against a whole team

51:55

of kids. And we're just getting we'll get demolished.

51:57

That's what that study shows is that all you

51:59

need is one parent who is willing to

52:01

break the rules and then all the kids will

52:03

figure that out and they will take advantage of

52:05

it. So we

52:07

also find this to be very useful with sort

52:10

of telling our kids, you know, having all

52:12

the parents realize, okay, Tuesday is gonna be our

52:14

homework night and no Fortnite on Tuesday. Because

52:16

then when your kid comes to you and says, oh, all my

52:19

friends are playing Fortnite, you're like, no, they're not. I

52:21

talked to them. They're not supposed to be

52:23

playing today. Y'all are all supposed to be doing your homework,

52:27

right? That's the problem is

52:29

like they're all on a team and we're all

52:31

solo parenting. You don't want to offend anyone. It's

52:34

not your responsibility. It's their choices, right?

52:36

So like they're all cooperating, but we're

52:39

all playing a solo game and it

52:41

doesn't work. I

52:45

got to go because I'm gonna call some parents. So

52:50

this was awesome, Dr. K. Looking

52:53

back to then the gaming

52:55

thing, this

52:57

has been tremendous by the way. So

53:00

let's just say, you know,

53:02

typical parents, right? What

53:06

is the first thing

53:09

that we need to do that you

53:12

think? And here's the other key question

53:14

because I can even sense the

53:16

fatigue setting in with parents and consistency because I

53:18

think consistency, like, hey, we're gonna do this new

53:20

thing or like, hey, we're gonna and then it

53:22

lasts for like a week and then it just

53:24

we don't ever talk about it again or never

53:27

and then we just go back to old habits.

53:29

So how do we get started? And

53:31

then how do we be consistent? Great question.

53:33

Great, great, great question. This is literally laid out step

53:35

by step because we figured this out. So we've worked

53:37

with hundreds of parents now. We figured out that parents

53:39

need a playbook. So there's

53:41

a couple of like philosophical things and then

53:44

there's a couple of like concrete things. So

53:46

all layout like concretely what we recommend. So

53:48

concretely, generally speaking, there's a lot of detail.

53:51

But what we recommend is you spend one

53:53

month just talking to your child and you

53:55

let them know upfront nothing you tell me

53:57

is going to affect

53:59

whether I. take away your game or not, I

54:01

just want to understand. And even as a

54:03

parent, you can say, hey, I've tried to like regulate

54:05

your gaming, but I realize now that that's not

54:08

working very well. You're pissed off. I'm pissed off.

54:10

I think I just need to better understand. At

54:13

the end of the month, there are going to

54:15

be rules. But the more information that you

54:17

equip me with, the more that you're a part of

54:19

the process, the more you get to

54:21

shape the rules. So you start off

54:23

by talking to the kid. And then we

54:25

also recommend things like weekly check-ins. So this is

54:28

where like I kind of mentioned earlier in my

54:30

example, see, a lot of parents think that the

54:32

battle is won once they're off of the game.

54:34

That's not when the battle is won. That's when the battle is started.

54:38

So really closing the loop is a big

54:40

mistake that a lot of parents don't make.

54:42

We don't talk to you afterward about

54:44

how do you feel not playing? What was it

54:47

like to not play with your friends? Was that

54:49

hard for you to help me understand? I don't

54:51

want to make your life hard. And

54:54

then there are all kinds of interesting techniques that we

54:56

need to learn. So I'd almost say like, you

54:58

know, Larry, if I want to play

55:00

football, how should I start? What's

55:04

the first step? So I think if you look at football,

55:06

there's a set of skills. And

55:08

then there is an overarching, once we

55:10

have these core skills down, how to communicate.

55:13

So one really good example that we do a lot

55:15

for parents that really turns things around is this technique

55:17

called dumping it in their lap. This is something that

55:20

we sort of learn as psychiatrists.

55:23

So we as parents take responsibility for our kids,

55:25

right? So the kid has a test on Friday,

55:27

hey, make sure you study, make sure you study,

55:29

make sure you study, make sure you study. So

55:31

when you do that, you're taking the responsibility on

55:34

yourself that your child passes the class. Instead

55:36

what we recommend is that you dump it in their lap. You

55:39

tell the kid, hey, you need to be up by this

55:41

amount of time. You need to finish these chores because they'll

55:43

come to you in the last question, hey, can I play?

55:46

And then you kind of think through it and then you're

55:48

like, yes or no. But instead you tell them, this is

55:50

what you have to accomplish. You tell me, can you play?

55:53

If you can play right now and get

55:55

everything done, then that's totally fine. But

55:58

if you play right now and everything is not done.

56:00

Then you lose the game until everything is done for

56:02

five days. You tell me. You

56:05

tell me whether you can play or not. Empowering

56:08

the kid to make that decision. Empowering the kid

56:10

but being very strict with your consequences. And this

56:12

is a key thing is letting the kid understand

56:14

that your access to the game is under your

56:16

control. You just have to meet

56:19

these check boxes. And you can influence the check

56:21

boxes. You can tell me which chores you want to

56:23

do, which chores you do not want to do, do

56:25

you want to do this extracurricular? This extracurricular? We don't

56:27

want to be dictators but we want to be very

56:29

firm with our boundaries. So

56:31

basically it's like you're driving a car. You're giving

56:33

them the guardrails and you're putting them behind the

56:35

steering wheel and they're like, look, here

56:38

are the guardrails, here are the speed traps, here's

56:40

the bear traps, here's

56:42

the potholes, here's all this other stuff. You

56:45

drive, however, if we deviate and we run

56:47

over these things, we run into the sides,

56:49

there are going to be consequences. Absolutely, right?

56:52

Okay. So you're encouraging them to drive

56:54

the right way to avoid the

56:56

consequences. I

56:59

like that. Yeah, that's because otherwise

57:01

it's so exhausting, dude. You cannot be the

57:03

guardrails. Like you can't be, you know,

57:06

in your example, you've got

57:08

half the steering wheel, they've got the other half of the steering

57:10

wheel. What's going to happen to the car? You're

57:13

turning this way, they're turning this way. It's like your

57:16

catastrophic action scene from whatever movie

57:18

where someone's kidnapped. And this is

57:20

what the experience of most parents is like. They're

57:22

struggling to turn the car left, the kid is

57:24

struggling to turn the car right. And even if

57:26

you turn the car left, you're exhausted and your kid

57:28

is resentful. How's that a win? Yeah,

57:30

that part sucks, right? And the other thing

57:32

too is, I think,

57:35

and again, you're the doctor, I'm not, but

57:38

aren't you raising, if you're helping that

57:40

kid put in those reps, right, of

57:42

they're the ones making –

57:44

you're actually raising a critical thinker. Absolutely.

57:47

Is that correct? So that's why, you know, the book is

57:49

called How to Raise a Healthy Gamer. It's about being a

57:51

healthy gamer and not setting the limit. I mean, you have

57:53

to set some limits, so I set limits for my kids.

57:56

And then I think the last thing that we really, really focus

57:58

on is – said a rule

58:01

of no cell phones until 14, which I think

58:03

is very common, right? People will set some rule.

58:06

But the other approach that we have, and this is

58:08

a little bit more personal, it's not quite as scientific,

58:10

but you know, it's like in my

58:12

experience, parents will ask me like how old is too old

58:14

or how much is too much. And that's where I say

58:16

something crazy, which doesn't help depends on the kid. So

58:19

I have two kids who are very different. One

58:21

of them can get a cell phone earlier and

58:23

the other one can get a cell phone later

58:26

because of the way that they demonstrate their ability

58:28

to self-regulate. So

58:30

another really big piece of it is a

58:34

lot of parents will say, kids will ask when can

58:36

I get a cell phone and a parent will say when you're 14.

58:39

I think that's the wrong way to approach it. Not

58:41

to say that you're doing anything wrong, just professionally. That's the

58:43

wrong way to approach it. You're not wrong, but it is

58:45

wrong. No, there's just a different way.

58:47

So I'll give you an example. So

58:50

this is where I think the right conversation is

58:52

once you get the cell phone, what does usage

58:54

look like? Right? So

58:57

we think about ownership of the cell phone is binary.

58:59

It's whether you get access to a cell phone. If

59:01

you don't use it in the right way, we're going

59:03

to take it away. You get this idea

59:05

of getting it means now it's mine. Now I get to

59:07

use it whenever I want to. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. We're

59:10

going to use a subscription model, not a

59:12

pay once. So you can

59:14

get a cell phone at 14, but whether you

59:16

keep it for the next week or two, here

59:18

are the things that we're looking for and here

59:20

are the criteria under which you're going to lose

59:22

it because kids, they'll negotiate

59:25

very easily before they get

59:27

something. But the moment that

59:29

they get it, oh, can I get a PlayStation for

59:31

Christmas? Please, please, please for my birthday. Wrong

59:33

thinking. It's okay. You can have a

59:35

flow. Sure. You can

59:37

have a PlayStation for Christmas. I'm going to take

59:39

it away under these circumstances or let's work together

59:42

to understand what are your responsibilities once you get

59:44

the cell phone And really

59:46

baking that question in before they get their hands

59:48

on it. What Does this mean about Snapchat? What

59:50

Does this mean about social media? What Does this

59:52

mean about who your friends are? Do I Get

59:54

to read your text messages? Do I Not get

59:56

to read your text messages? What If you're flirting

59:58

with someone who's 30 years old? The new: Is

1:00:00

that okay? Is that not okay? Rice. Apparent. So

1:00:03

think about these conversations. I had it right.

1:00:05

Or you get to use it at the dinner table. Do

1:00:08

Not Get To Use It at The dinner table. How many

1:00:10

hours are you going to be on at? Like all these

1:00:12

kinds of questions we need the have before we give them

1:00:14

the cell phone because right now. What happened? The parents give

1:00:16

the cellphone and then it's an uphill battle. So

1:00:19

the earlier we start. Things and I are not

1:00:21

not to criticize what you would do. I think it's just

1:00:23

than most natural thing that we do as parents. right and

1:00:26

fourteen. You get it. We need a rule in the house.

1:00:28

Fairness. It's not just. And

1:00:31

at the same time really prepping your

1:00:33

child for the cellphone. And. Having

1:00:35

these conversations I had a time so that

1:00:37

you already have the foundation laid if they.

1:00:39

Go off. And.

1:00:42

If they go off track and then you

1:00:44

start instituting limits, That's when people get. Really

1:00:46

pissed. But. If they know ahead

1:00:48

of time. Hey. You get the cellphone

1:00:50

to fourteen. Totally fine. Here's what I expect. Was

1:00:54

totally getting a driver's license, right? You

1:00:56

get a license. It's privilege, not right.

1:00:59

Just. Saw the roofs and you know the

1:01:01

rules are you know, with boundaries? Are you

1:01:03

breaking a bregman of times where your license

1:01:05

is taken away hundred percent. It's a it's

1:01:08

a beautiful. Analogy were and the whole problem

1:01:10

is we as parents don't think about that

1:01:12

when we're getting are getting our kid a

1:01:14

birthday present. But.

1:01:17

We don't all think about. To.

1:01:20

Talk to all day like this is

1:01:22

so enlightening. The. I really like

1:01:24

a this is really good software can work in

1:01:26

our audience members find you this is great but

1:01:28

with yeah so so a couple things one as

1:01:31

we just have a you tube channel which is

1:01:33

healthy gamer gg. I'm and and a

1:01:35

big part of our audience on the youtube channel

1:01:37

is. Is actually your kids so

1:01:39

like a our main area like we we

1:01:41

we we get watch my about five million

1:01:43

people. A month and most of them

1:01:45

are gamers. So. we know we

1:01:47

really understand gamers we've got some stuff on there

1:01:49

for parents but then we also have a website

1:01:52

health a game or not cheesy in there are

1:01:54

some resources for parents and then i think we

1:01:56

have our a book that just came out where

1:01:58

we outline our philosophy explain the neuroscience and

1:02:00

psychology so that you as a parent

1:02:02

are equipped and we give you

1:02:04

a lot of practical tools to like Communicate

1:02:07

with your child enforce boundaries in

1:02:09

a positive behavioral way. So that's

1:02:12

what I would say Check out YouTube

1:02:14

check out the book Sure. Well, and

1:02:16

thank you so much guys. Don't don't worry. You're

1:02:18

not gonna look far for dr K's resources head

1:02:20

on over the data edge calm/four

1:02:23

seven three for this show again

1:02:25

the data edge comm/four seven three

1:02:28

Dr. K. I want to have you back. I'd love to

1:02:30

talk about these other topics that we sure That

1:02:35

sounds great, dude, yeah, I really enjoyed this and

1:02:37

I love your perspective Larry Like I think it's

1:02:39

awesome and and you've done a phenomenal job if

1:02:41

you've gotten your kids You

1:02:43

know if they've got cell phones and they're still like

1:02:45

wrestling and playing and you guys are playing Madden

1:02:47

together It sounds like y'all are doing something, right? Trying

1:02:51

to you know, but like I learned I

1:02:53

definitely learned a lot of fantastic things from

1:02:55

you today So it's it's gonna be better

1:02:57

now. Like I feel like be

1:02:59

quite honest less less Regulatory

1:03:02

more even we were

1:03:04

collaborative before but also stern, but this

1:03:06

gives me a different approach that yeah

1:03:08

So, thank you. Yeah, of course. It's

1:03:10

my pleasure. Thank you. You too. Thanks

1:03:12

again You