Hi, I am Here with Jonathan Pritchard. He Founder of the Hellstrom Group; an international consulting company working with clients like BP, State Farm, United Airlines, and more. Focusing mainly on applied psychology in business, communication, and life. here is the full episode hope you enjoy. Listen in your favorite podcast app.
Ari Gronich 0:01
Has it occurred to you that the systems we live by are not designed to get results? We pay for procedures instead of outcomes, focusing on emergencies rather than preventing disease and living a healthy lifestyle. For over 25 years, I've taken care of Olympians Paralympians a list actors in fortune 1000 companies, if I did not get results, they did not get results. I realized that while powerful people who control the system want to keep the status quo, if I were to educate the masses, you would demand change. So I'm taking the gloves off and going after the systems as they are joining me on my mission to create a new tomorrow as I chat with industry experts, elite athletes, thought leaders and government officials about how we activate our vision for a better world. We may agree and we may disagree, but I'm not backing down. I'm Ari Gronich and this is create a new tomorrow podcast.
Welcome back to create a new tomorrow. I'm your host, Ari Gronich and with me today, and I have to change my voice for him because he is the magician Jonathan Pritchard. Been on stage with Chris Angel. He's been on stage in war times and good times. He's traveled the world learning the psychology and the experiential mindset of imagination design theory of mind. Jonathan Prichard, tell us who you are.
jonathan pritchard 1:42
Hi, hey, glad to be here, man. Thanks for the rockin intro. I just always have to say I was backstage with Chris Angel. I haven't been on stage with him. I was strictly behind the scenes. I got that face for radio kind of thing going on. So yeah. Basically, my my background is I grew up doing magic tricks. When I was a teenager, I got interested in mind reading tricks. And that was my area of specialty. I met my mentor James Randi, who recently passed away, he at the time had a million dollar challenge to anybody who claimed to be genuinely psychic or have supernatural powers like that. Well, you show us then you get a million dollars. And I handled applications and designed testing protocol for that million dollar challenge. And that's when I saw every way that people were trying to scam their way to the money and figured I can do these scams better than they can. And then that's how my showbiz career started. So from there, I have traveled the world entertain the troops overseas, and consulted for some of those big names we'd all recognize. And I used the psychology and skills and principles to make Austin our long show. But I eventually realized, you know, it's nice distracting people from their problems for an hour. But these principles I use onstage can be used offstage to help solve those problems permanently so that you get more interesting problems. Like Alright, I like that process. And from there expanded out to the coaching and speaking and training and, and all that kind of giving people a peek behind the curtain. Look at how your brain works. So that's why I've been able to consult with fortune 500 clients and a whole bunch of training, stuff like that. But it all centers around just being fascinated by how people think.
Ari Gronich 3:45
So I want you to unpack for me one thing. I saw it on America's Got Talent, some magician, he was touching Simon's hand, or was it Simon's or I don't know, he was touching either Simon's or the other guy's hand. And then the other person's hand rate rose, because they were mentally connected with their psychic. So I want to unpack that because it always intrigues me. Not when you can pull stuff out of your jacket in weird ways that you can't see. But when are your sleeves or what? But when when you can touch somebody's body and somebody else raises their hand.
jonathan pritchard 4:27
All I can say about that is I am really good friends for more than a decade with the guy who came up with that trick. So I will pass along your sentiments to him. That is a trade secret that if you haven't spent a lifetime of self denial, alone in a room to learn those skills and techniques, you you don't have the experience and background to to handle those kinds of secrets. So I'm I'm really saving you from yourself there.
Ari Gronich 4:59
Alright, so you're not The man in the black mask, I was just checking to see if you were the man in the black mass.
jonathan pritchard 5:05
But know that given what that's Yeah, the the masked magician is is to be a really fascinating story. That's kind of insider baseball trade secret stuff. But it's, it's actually really cool because the the guy who came up with that idea really loves magic. And the explanations for Season One, are really wacky. They're, they're functional, but they're not actually plausible. They weren't actual secrets, he drempt up most of the explanations, but the producers don't have experience in the magic world. So they don't know it's a fake explanation. So they were exposing imaginary secrets, which to me is a hilarious meta con. And it gets famous than they want to do season two, but it's kinda like, well, I'm out of ideas. So let's, let's call this off. They fired him. And that's the thing with a mask. Anybody could wear it. So now, season two and three, they were actually revealing the real work. But yeah, it's kind of when you when you try to control a beast you conjure, it's probably going to destroy you.
Ari Gronich 6:20
Yeah, so you know, that gets me to my favorite kinds of topics, which is, how is it that the audience, the people, the citizenry are? So under the spell of the magician's of the systems that we're in? Because psychologically speaking, it doesn't make sense to me? I can see it, why can't you see it? Right? It's like, is my is my way of looking at it. Like, I can see that big agriculture is poisoning our food. Why can't you see that? And why is it? Why is it okay? That you see it? If you see it? And don't care? Like why? What is it about the psychology, the mindset of people, that allows them to be so duped out of doing actions that are in their own self interest that are in their own betterment?
jonathan pritchard 7:30
That's a big question. Let me let me try to approach it with with this. Do you have your cell phone next to you? Yeah. All right, would you put it face down? In front of you? Yeah. Right. Because this, this is kind of an experiment to see how your brain works. And kind of based on the numbers, we look at our phones, at least a couple 100 times a day, right? if not more, and you're often going to your main home screen to open up different apps and that kind of thing. So at least 50 ish times of those 200 times you're looking at your phone, you're seeing your home screen. And there are apps, there are widgets, there's a clock somewhere on there, who who cares, right? I want you to think about what icon or widget would be in the upper left hand corner of your main home screen on your phone that you've already seen 20 times today. Okay, so I need to think about what that is. And in just a moment, but not quite yet. Because there's a little bit of process to this. In just a moment. I'm going to turn it over, lighted up. unlock your phone. Check to see if you get it right or wrong. Lock your phone and put it facedown. Okay, well, you got to do so go for it. Got it. Right. Not open, not opening it, though.
Well, you open up you unlocked it. But did you get the icon? Correct?
Ari Gronich 9:17
I got the icon in the top left. Correct.
jonathan pritchard 9:20
Outstanding. All right. So you're a very small percentage of the population. That actually gets it correct. But here's another question. Whether you've got an iPhone or an Android, this is the same no matter what on your lock screen. We all see exactly the same thing, which is the time. So without looking at anything else. What exact time is it?
Ari Gronich 9:45
I don't know because I haven't been looking at I wasn't looking at it.
jonathan pritchard 9:49
Exactly what you were expecting to see and your fundamental values of what you're looking for. prioritizes What your mind will pay attention to you were, you weren't consciously aware of the time, but it was in your visual field. So you perceived it, but you weren't aware of it, because of what information you were looking for means that you're going to filter out everything that isn't your values. So the values you hold, are your pre cognitive filter, to weed out everything that doesn't match what it is you're expecting to see. And that is a fundamental human process, our brains run off about the same amount of electricity that your your refrigerator light runs on. So you've got to have some shortcuts to be able to navigate this confusing thing called reality. So there are all sorts of assumptions and shortcuts and processes in place to help you not be frozen by having to evaluate every single detail that you could possibly be aware of. So within the context of a bigger issue, like agriculture, or whatever, within the context of your previous experience, you have logical reasons for the assumptions and beliefs that you have that build your filters for your future experiences, that will ensure that only the experiences that reinforce those beliefs are let through the gates. So any kind of knowledge or experience that could challenge those filters are kind of kept out before you're ever even capable of being consciously aware of them, because they passed you by 10 seconds ago, and you weren't aware of it in the first place. So if you're not aware of something, you can't use it, you can't leverage it, you can't apply it. And your mind actively is filtering out everything that doesn't align with what you're looking for.
Ari Gronich 12:20
Okay, so I'm going to give you a scenario. You're your smoker. You go into a gas station. You see the cigarettes. You're an ex smoker. You still see the cigarettes. You're a non smoker. When I was a non smoker, I didn't see the cigarettes at all. When I started smoking I was, you know, young at the time, mind you. And when I stopped smoking, I still would see the cigarettes. When I started to identify myself as a non smoker, somebody who does not, I don't smoke, I'm not a smoker. I stopped seeing the cigarettes. I'd still go up to the counter. But I would see maybe, you know, if I liked chocolate bars, I'd see the chocolate bar instead of the, you know, the cigarettes. So that would be like a selective eyesight based on preconceived notions, right. So how do you go through life watching your family members and your friends and stuff have cancer and diabetes and heart disease and stuff and not have it be on top of your mind that you're seeing people sick, you're experiencing sick and not associating that sick with any of the habits, behaviors or situations in front of you.
jonathan pritchard 14:04
You are the only person who can build your Kung Fu. I can't learn your Kung Fu for you. And trying to learn your Kung Fu for you is the fastest way to drive myself crazy. Because that's not how reality works. So you can do your due diligence, you can voice your concerns, you can try to express your viewpoint. It's just really difficult for you to force learning onto somebody. And that is kind of a fundamental communication issue. Really, which is why can't you see it my way? It is so perfectly clear to me. Why in the world Can't you see it my way. And in one perspective, your domain Finding that they become the mind reader to see the world through your mind. And they haven't spent a lifetime studying human psychology and communication theory. So expecting them to be able to do these things that are nearly superhuman is trying to measure them with your yardstick never going to happen, what you can do is try to put it in, in terms that they can relate to, so that you could at least feel understood, but you can't learn their lesson for them.
Ari Gronich 15:36
Obviously, you can't learn somebody's lesson, and nobody's trying to do that. But I can educate somebody on work, life educates them, and it's not about me, it's about what is in the world that people are seeing. So people see their family and friends dying of cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc. And they'll still eat massive amounts of sugar, and not worry about, you know, like not care not have a thought that says, maybe the action that I'm taking is a is causing the result that I'm getting. Right? So yes, it's them doing their own Kung Fu, but I'm asking what it is in their own mind. Not anything that I have to say. They're the one experiencing it, they got diabetes, and they're, you know, drinking the soda and eating the sugar. What is it about the mind that makes it so that they are or people in general are so willing to go against their own self interest? Got it.
jonathan pritchard 16:48
There's a lot going on, that weaves together to reinforce that behavior. There's a lot that could be going on, too. So that's a difficult thing to nail down as well. But a big part of a lot of our behavior is that it serves some purpose, and is some kind of strategy for need fulfillment. So in some way, their choices are the best strategies, they have to feel important to feel reassured to feel safe to feel connected, to feel valued. Even though it might be a bad strategy is still might be effective. And that's the best way that they know how to fulfill those needs that they've got. So in a way, if they solved those problems, what you're saying is that you're going to remove their strategies to scratch those itches, and to have those needs filled. So you can't really get rid of those strategies, you have to be able to find better strategies to achieve the same outcomes. So that's, that's at the heart of habit changes in in behavioral change, is recognizing what is this doing for me? What am I really getting out of this? And are there better behaviors that will serve me more effectively with fewer downsides. Another angle to that is, most people are using really bad strategies to make change. So the entirely logically consistent belief is that change is impossible. Or change is really difficult, when it's really a measure of an awful strategy that is ineffective to begin with. So then, if everything I do doesn't work, well, then I guess there's nothing that can work. So there's that angle of it. There's another angle, which is sometimes you don't see the negative impact right away. And it's, it's kind of one of those Buddhist things of, you're not punished for your anger, you're punished by your anger. Just the very nature of being angry is itself a damaging experience. That kind of idea. So if, if you're not at that level of discernment and awareness of the impact of your emotional state, your choices it's very difficult to recognize this behavior is immediately bad for me. But most People wouldn't be able to see the effects until it's much, much later. And by then, it's very difficult to tie what action created this outcome. And without that immediate feedback, there's, there's no consequence. I'm doing all these things, and I'm getting away scot free. And it's like, if you're training a dog, you're training a puppy, it needs immediate feedback that that was the right thing to do reinforce that, that was the wrong thing to do. Do not reinforce that. But our cause and effect timeline is from our perception. So distant in time. It's really difficult to relate the consequences to those actions we took last week, six months ago, two years ago. And therefore it gives us the false impression that our actions don't have consequences. And then when the consequences do come do you're going, why did this happen to me? What? Why your universe? This is so out of left field, there's no reason this should happen to me. Sure. Okay. Try selling that somewhere else. I'm not buying it.
Ari Gronich 21:26
Yeah, just look at the history of that person. It's interesting. You know, that explains why kids a lot are so willing to you know, eat fast food. I mean, I have kids that they're young. Oh, and, you know, my, my stepdaughters boyfriend said to me the other day, because I asked him why he would be using the microwave, even though he knows that it's not good for him to use the microwave. He's like, I'm young. I'm 20. It doesn't affect me right now. I'll be I'll worry about it when it affects me. Right? He's like, I'm like, Oh, really. So a small effect or a big effect. Right, an imperceptible effect is still an effect of, you know, beyond, right. But I was, I grew up I was a, I call myself a canary in the coal mine. Because I brain tumor when I was really young, and, and symptoms of it that we never knew that it was there until I was 24. symptoms started when I was seven. So I knew that things that I did affected how I felt, right. And so I had a very conscious perception of that at a very young age that the actions that I'm taking, are causing a consequence to, to those actions. And it was immediate, right? It's not like, you know, you have a small gluten intolerance. That doesn't, that causes a minor inflammatory response, not a big one that causes massive stomach pain. Mine was more, you know, things were pretty evident to me. So I was very well trained to become interested in the actions and effects and actions and effects and down the line butterfly effect and things like that. So the question becomes, if the consequence is down the line, how do we get the consequence in their mind? Or how does somebody get the consequence in their mind that their path is leading that way? Because you can't tell a kid that when they're at, they're going to be bent over like this. If they keep looking at the phone all day like this, right? They're gonna be looking at their shoes, they're gonna go, I don't care. I'm straight up right now. Right? So I'm just trying to get like, how do we get the mind to work in a way that is for our benefit instead of for the benefit of our habits and fears?
jonathan pritchard 24:16
What's the saying the best way to move a river is at its source. The earlier you can change the greater effect it'll have over time. That's just how it works. In idiot can't learn from their own mistakes. A normal person will learn from their own mistakes, a genius can learn from other people's mistakes. Most normal people require multiple exposures to their own bad choices before they're ever even aware of a choice being made in the first place. And the lesson will continue showing up at louder and louder Levels until it's at the limit of where they can be aware of it. Because the same level of thinking that creates that level of problems isn't going to change. So they can move, they can change environments. But that same decision making structure is still in place. So you'll make the best decisions you could make, which will create those level of problems that you're used to dealing with. So the consequences just keep showing up again and again until that person goes, oh, maybe I'm the problem here. And that, that sometimes can take a lifetime to come to
Ari Gronich 25:42
right. So that sounds a little bit like the horse I know is better than the horse I don't know, kind of thing or
jonathan pritchard 25:49
it's, it's that beautiful BF Skinner is is a fascinating character to me. He was a behavioral psychologist and an operant conditioning. So we've got Pavlovian conditioning, which is very straightforward. Ring Bell salivate, okay, it's now the bell ringing is associated with food, therefore, the food trigger happens with the bell. Okay, very straightforward. BF Skinner took that a little farther. And what he did was, this part's a bummer, he would starve pigeons to like 75% of their body weight, so they're very food motivated. Okay, he puts them in a little cage box, and there's a lever that the bird could pack. And then food drops out. Very simple, classical conditioning setup here, where if bird hits lever, then food drops out. And very quickly, the bird fingers spat out, kind of go, oh, if I want food, I hit the lever. Okay, my, my input is required for food output. Awesome, I got it. This box is the limit of experience for this bird. The birds context. The whole thing is the box. That's it. bf Skinner's context is the laboratory. And Skinner changes the logic of the box from the lever to an interval of time set to random. So it might be five minutes, this time, it might be 30 seconds next time, totally random. To drop out the food. The food is no longer connected to the to the lever. The bird lacks the contextual awareness to realize that that change has been made. So within the context, the birds experience, food drops out. It's logical belief is I needed to do something for that food to drop out because I've seen that happen 100 times already. So I guess now whatever it was I was just doing is the thing that I need to do to get the food to drop out which at that point was looking over my right shoulder. Okay, so let me let me try that out. I'm going to try this hypothesis looks over my right shoulder and nothing happens. Mm, okay, maybe I didn't do it hard enough. This time, boom, I look over my right shoulder and food drops out. See I knew it. I knew it was looking over my shoulder. You now have a superstitious pigeon. Straight up superstitious pigeon. From its experience, that is a completely logical belief system that is in alignment with its reality. But it's it's not real. But it makes sense. So the bird can't think outside the context of its experience. So back to the question you asked. It's that a person who doesn't expose themselves to new ideas to other perspectives will always be limited to their pre existing structure of assumptions, that the only logical outcome will always be the same belief and decision making. Those are the decisions you make that are your best strategies that will always result in the kinds of problems that you're used to dealing with. Because the problems you're used to dealing with are a result of the quality and strategy of your thinking. So without changing that fundamental structure, you can't help but end up at the same conclusions, the same problems. And those problems are there as a as just a blaring, like foghorn of, Hey, this is the natural consequence of being you right now. If you want better problems, you've got to change the way you think about your opportunities, your relationships, reality, the only thing that can change is your relationship with reality. SATs when you get cooler problems, that's when things change. But that's why you're not going to level up when you're making the same choices. And like, I've had that happen my own life, the best idea I've got. It keeps playing out over two to three years. But I wind up in exactly the same positions, exactly the same problems. It's just that the actors are different, but it's exactly the same script. I'm the only common denominator here. So what am I doing to create these experiences? Okay.
Ari Gronich 31:22
So that's, as I said, that sounds a lot like, you know, the saying, Why am I always attracting the same thing in relationship? or Why am I always attracting the same experience in business? Why, you know, why does this happen to me over and over again? Right, I hear that question a lot. I know that, you know, for me, in business there, there's always been a lot of ups and downs, because my experience was, when my parents, when I was young, my parents got into business with somebody, and he ended up stealing their entire business and everything from them, to where we had to move out of my house, we had to the house, my dad actually had built, we had, you know, we were left with nothing and, and had to rebuild. And so I learned, people are unreliable, they will steal for you, if they have an opportunity, they'll take advantage of you if you're nice. Right? So I have all, you know, it was like all these sets of beliefs that would then later on in life, it didn't happen. When I wasn't in business, it happened only when I went into business, but later in life, I start, you know, I recreated those things. Right. So then the question becomes, how does one when they get that awareness that that's happening, then what are some of the techniques they can use to then shift that perspective? Like some actual tangible techniques, if you if you have any, but to shift the so that, okay, I recognize that pattern. I don't like the pattern, but I don't know how to stop the pattern. So how do we how do we get to that stop the pattern and then to the shift into a new, more healthy or what, you know, cleaner, kind of Yeah,
jonathan pritchard 33:29
it goes back to the cause and effect, that is such a difficult thing to do, because that pattern might happen six months earlier, before its consequences are loud enough for you to be able to hear them. And by then it's difficult to recognize the state you were in six months ago that led to the choices that led to the six months later consequences. So it's, it's really difficult. This is not easy stuff. It can be simple. Once you understand that it's fairly direct, and it makes sense. But it doesn't mean it's easy. Another thing is to recognize that these are the beliefs, behaviors and systems of decision making, that you've had for a lifetime. And you've had that long to get really good at thinking that way. Thinking is a skill being you is a skill. making the choices that feel right is a skill. And the more you make those choices, the more natural those choices feel. And that's a big part of why you keep making them. Because this is clearly the best way to make this choice. This is clearly my best option. This is the one that feels right. feels right because it's the one you're most familiar with the one you're best at doing. That's why it's the best. It kind of takes a genius to be able to wake yourself up. It's very, very useful to have a mentor, or some external third party person who isn't living in the same context as you are. So that they can recognize those patterns before you do to be able to give you those pattern interrupts of, Hey, why are you doing it that way? What do you mean? I'm, I'm doing it that way. I'm not doing it that way. Yeah, you're you're actually right in the middle of doing it that way. Look, exactly what you're doing. Oh, my god, you're right. I, I am Wait, what? How did I get here what's happening, right kind of wake you up in the middle of that, that natural process. And a big part of it is recognizing that changing your behavior is not going to feel natural. Every instinct you have will tell you that this is wrong. And that this is not the right way to do things. And it will feel like you're dying is basically it. Because what's dying are those ideas that are living in the energy of of your imagination in mind, that are feeding off your decision energy that keeps them alive. So those ideas are going to fight tooth and nail to make sure that you don't kill them. But that's what happens when you start making different choices. You're starting to give that energy to new ideas, the old ideas are not going to go quietly into the night. So just recognize that doing a better strategy. At first is going to feel more uncomfortable and unfamiliar than riding a unicycle and juggling fire. Just know that that's part of the process.
Ari Gronich 37:17
That sounds like fun, actually, I'm a Burning Man guy. So I like juggling fire and
jonathan pritchard 37:23
a reason I have the the fire juggling tattoo.
Ari Gronich 37:27
Absolutely. So So then the question becomes to change your habits. Sometimes we need to change our circumstances, our environment and the people we're around, right? Because we're around people who are like we were or like we are but not like we want to be necessarily. So the uncomfortability that people tend to have when it when it when they're changing or when somebody is changing around them. And the pullback though, the the crab box, you know, like we always are pulling people down instead of lifting them up. So you've got to find people who are where you want to go. Right? And that way you have those mentors and those people who can point out to you and say, so the question becomes at that point, why would those people want to be around you? Because they have to, they have to decide, am I going to mentor this person, I'm going to, you know, beyond our current culture of everybody's a coach and pay me and I'll help you, right? Everybody's, I'm a mentor. But if you have to pay me 50,000 to mentor you. It used to be that was just like, the way that we grew up in the world was we would you know, somebody above would take somebody below and say, Here, come with me. And let's go do this together. Let me teach you let me train you. Let me see. But and, you know, you get the idea that in this current world that we live in, it's difficult to find somebody who's at that level that says, you know, like Andrew Carnegie saying to Napoleon Hill, I will mentor you, you just, you know, go right about it, learn about it. Let's do this. Right. So how to that kind of? Well, you heard the question.
jonathan pritchard 39:41
Yeah, there are a couple very, very subtle distinctions that that I think are important to, to nail down. Which is you're right, the crab bucket mentality and people dragging you down because you're useful reassurance. They're to say, like, whatever they're getting out of you being the you You are now, you'll be taking that from them by changing your situation. So there's that to be aware of the danger. The caution I want to pin down is, wherever you go, there you are. And if you make the mistake of believing, changing your environment alone, is what's needed for you to be different you that will quickly turn back into the you, you're used to, because you brought you with you wherever you went, right. So wherever it is, you go very soon, way faster than you think you are making the choices to recreate exactly the same dynamic you ran away from in the first place. So a change of environment is a useful pattern interrupt to hiccup, so that you can take stock of my natural next instinct is to do this. And that way, the same patterns are there, the environments different. So that gives you a chance to recognize those patterns. So that's why it's useful for environment changes. But changing your environment doesn't change you. You bring yourself along with you. So there, that's just kind of the one of the distinctions I want to make, which is, you can't run away, you're not going to go to a new city and start all over again. And things will be different this time. No, six months later, you'll be right back in the same same spot. So the next detail is about well, how in the world do you get a mentor, especially nowadays, the internet and that kind of a thing. Having an in person mentor is awesome. Having direct relationships with them is awesome. But books are the world's best thinkers throughout all written history that you have to learn from. And it's getting mind reading lessons from the world's most effective people. So they have generously distilled a lifetime's worth of valuable insight into a couple of 100 pages that you can read in eight hours. So that same 50,000 hour $50,000, you would need to pay to sit down with Mark Cuban or whoever, for eight hours, you could buy it for five bucks on on Kindle. So there's that angle to it. The other angle is why in the world, with some world class achiever want to hang out with a loser like me. That is a very logical belief, that is a very reasonable thing to keep you away from making those connections. totally makes sense. Doesn't have to be real. But it's logical. And that's the real thorny part of this. All the stuff that's gonna derail you. totally makes sense. It feels right. It's it's logical. Like, yeah, you just built a great case for why this will never happen. But look at that, dude, he shows you that it doesn't have to happen, it can go a different way. So I like to kind of explain that idea. In the context of I just did my mind reading show 70 minute migrating show comedy bringing people up on stage in front of a roomful of people. That's a very uncomfortable situation for a volunteer to be in. But I helped them feel like a million bucks. I set them up for success. I can calm them down, build that rapport, that trust very quickly, the whole whole nine yards. So you do the show. Standing ovation. Okay,
I've had some of those to definitely had some of those. So, afterwards, there's going to be three types of people that come talk to me. The first one is going to say, How did you do that trick? Tell me that trick with the hands and touching the hands. How does that work? And then I say it's a mystery. Oh, man, it's woof. Isn't that a good trick? Huh? That's that's level of their interest. The second person will go You know, I've always been interested in mind reading and mentalism and the psychology of humans and, and I'm just super fascinated about it. And then I go Okay, what what books have you read? Like, oh, I, I don't even know where to start. I go, Okay, well, here's a good book to check out. Here's a good book to check out. Here's a good resource, your library 790 8.3 or 790 3.8, whatever, whatever that number is, is the Dewey Decimal number for magic and in games. That's it at libraries. It's sitting right there at your county library. been there for decades, same books since 1950s. Alright, so gave them their lead. The third person will go man, that was a great show loved it. I've been interested in mentalism. And I've read this book. And this trick in that book is my favorite, but I just can't get it to work right? Then I go, I'm sorry, everybody. autograph line is done. I'm going to have to hang out this person, because try to shut me up. Walking that person through. Okay, so your thumb is a little like it's two millimeters away from the perfect position. Now, put it right here. It doesn't that feel like oh, yeah, I can do the thing. So there are a lot of people who demand the answers, go find them yourself. A lot of people want answers, here's where to find them. Here are the answers I've already been searching for, and been trying. And here, here, the frustrations I've had. I'm going to mentor that third person, that third person has already demonstrated that my time is not going to be wasted, by virtue of them already doing what it is that they need to do to win. So coaches want to coach winners. They don't want to they don't want to coach losers, right? You just don't. So make yourself valuable, demonstrate that you're coachable. Don't Don't argue with the person who's already been doing this for 30 years, and can do this in their sleep. So fight the urge to argue with the person who is provably better at doing these things than you are. Because I'm not interested in debating. I'm not interested in arguing. I was a I was competitive debater in high school and college, through all of it. I was a competitive debater, that was the fun time for me to do that. I'm no longer interested in that I'm now interested in creating and building and giving other people the tools and techniques and strategies to build success for themselves. That's what I'm interested in. If you're interested in arguing with me about that's not the way I see it, great, then I don't need to mentor you. And a lot of people make themselves unmaintainable by by fighting to keep their old ways of losing that they will they will give everything they have to hold on to the way they've always done it. And why in the world? Am I going to care more than they do about their problems? So no. So do what you can with what you got. And just do that day in day out. And that's how you show that, hey, I will actually take to heart what you're going to teach me and I want to implement what it is you can show me. The other side of that equation, though the cautionary side is nobody. And I mean, no human being can think outside the box. When somebody says we need to think outside the box, they don't know what they're talking about. Because we're all pigeons in that cage.
The only thing you can do is crawl out of your box into somebody else's slightly larger box. The instant you start applying their strategies and advice, you begin building their box. So if the person giving you advice is living a life you wouldn't trade for. ignore it. That's the final litmus test of would I give up everything I have to live the life that persons living. If not, you can completely ignore the advice they're trying to give you because the moment you start listening to it and In making those decisions that are in alignment with what they would do, you're going to start getting the same consequences they do, whether that's getting fabulously rich and wealthy, maybe that's getting rich and wealthy and a horrible home life and their wife hates them. consequences are positive and negative. They're just the natural byproduct of the decisions you make. So make sure that the consequences are worth what they're going to cost you, which is everything that you have right now.
Ari Gronich 50:33
Yeah, I call I call it I talked about that in my book with the butterfly effect. I call it nuanced thinking and and, you know, following a path, it's the same thing and operational planning is, what are the actions and then what are the consequences to the consequences to the consequences to the consequences of the one action that was all the way back over here. And, and sometimes it's good, I tell my son, actually, you know, like, there's consequences to everything. If you're late for, you know, get in your car, when it's parked at a parking meter, you're going to get a ticket, if you don't do your homework, it's, you're, you're going to have a consequence, if you do your homework, you're going to have that consequence of learning and growing and changing. And I try to give him that kind of a philosophy. He's seven years old, but he is so smart, so he can understand the words that I'm saying and what I'm telling him. And, and yeah, I find I find that to be really fascinating. What I also find fascinating is how few people even recognize the consequence to their action, long after the action is done, or right away, you know, and what you said earlier is is true that sometimes that consequence comes much later. And it's harder to put the start point of the origin with with the answer. But, you know, Jim Rohn, used to say, you can, you know, you plan, like, say a five year plan. And you say, here's the goal, here's where I'm going. And then within five years, you get there, you're going to get somewhere in five years, you can either have go to a well designed location, or an undesigned location. Right. And so the the consequences of your actions today are five years down the road, it's, it's a way so just backtrack, the goal backtrack, what you want to do. I also like the the conversation that you're talking about needs because everything every action is a response to get a fundamental need met. And I don't think myself included, that majority of people actually write a needs list for anything that they do specifically. So whether it's a relationship, they might say, here's a trait list I want in the person, but not a needless, what is it that I need from a relationship? What is it that I need? From my business? What is it the lifestyle, the need of the lifestyle I want to live What's the need of the health I want to have? And, and and bringing it back to that is that would be a fundamental way to shift the actions is to recognize Okay, here are my fundamental needs which may or may not shift at some point as you grow older and and so on. But it's an interesting thing. I have you know, you brought up things like mentalist you know as far as a profession What do you think of the TV show mentalist or psych or even lied to me? You know, where, where they're talking about body language and what what intrigues me is the amount of information they can gather from the body language and so forth. Do you have any techniques or skills that help somebody become more observant of their surroundings become more and it kind of goes back to that phone thing that you talked about earlier when you had me look at the phone to become that hyper focused where you can see the nuance of an environment?
jonathan pritchard 54:40
Yeah, I I am not being trite. I am being ultra literal here, which is they are able to notice so much because they read the script. And I mean, to say Sat. The body language narrative is a useful tool to instill the belief that I can do things that you can't. It's predicated on a fundamental misunderstanding of reality, though. If you were to press any of these body language experts, they the the Balian mode, kind of like, Oh, I'm going to advance this. And then when you attack me, I'm going to retreat to my mode. Right? That process is they claim to be a body language expert. And here's, I know, because here's how human body language works. that argument, though, is founded on the belief that there are universal displays of human emotion, that a smile is always a smile. A frown is always a frown. In that kind of a thing. There are zero, universally applicable human displays of emotion. They are always contextually relevant. Always. So there's, there's no one behavior, that always means the same thing. To put it simply, that fundamentally undermines the entire structure that these body language experts build their, their life on. Right? So then they retreat to Well, I don't I'm not saying that, Jonathan, I mean, that I'm just really good at reading the situation. So why are you taking a two second clip from a three hour conversation? And then espousing that I have a rocky relationship with my my dad? Like, it's it's all hogwash. It's made up. It's, it's modern day phonology. It's tarot cards. It's Barnum statements. So I fundamentally disagree with a lot of body language experts, and the entire structure of their business. Having said that, within the context of a performance, a mind reading show, I'll use that as a useful narrative. To give my audience something to hold on to that explains how I'm able to know these things about somebody when the real method is I stole the information somehow. So it's a useful narrative, to give your mind an explanation. And once your mind has an explanation, it stops looking for the explanation.
Ari Gronich 58:09
Right? You're placated.
jonathan pritchard 58:10
Yes, you go, I need an answer. Here you go. Oh, I have an answer. Now, my worlds okay. He waved his hand and snapped his fingers. That's how it worked. It sounds stupid when it when you say it out loud in your life. I know that can't be what it is. But your non conscious mind, the mind that filters out the experience, the one that operates off of a lifetime's worth of Yes, how it works, totally buys it totally buys it. So that that's my cautionary tale, which is to say, be aware of those assumptions, that you know what's going on? Because a little knowledge is really dangerous.
Ari Gronich 58:56
Right? So the one I hear a lot is your arms are crossed, right? Mm hmm. Yep. Closed to this conversation because your arms are crossed. And so you're closing off and saying no, yeah. Yeah. You know, I could be cold. I again, like Like you said, I could be cold and you know, I could be cold. I could be just like resting on on my belly, you know, place to put my hands I can be as you are, you know, just comfortable and leaning on the, you know,
jonathan pritchard 59:29
yes. My chair doesn't have armrests. I gotta,
Ari Gronich 59:32
yeah, I don't have them. If I were to read body language. If I were to go by this script, so to speak, I'd say you're closed off right now. If I were to go by my intuition, I'd say he's relaxed. He's open in the conversation. He's having a good time. He's making eye contact. You know, even with the camera, not with me, but you know, I mean, yeah, that's, that's an nuanced way of looking at it versus a prescribed way of looking at it. Right?
jonathan pritchard 1:00:05
Right. The Yeah, the the, the way that it works, where you can build it to help you is number of times you've been in this certain kind of dynamic. I've been in my show more than 1000 times. And I have 100 times 1000 data points of picking somebody who's actively scowling. And so within the American context, within the smaller context of my show, within the even smaller context of my audience, in the smaller, smaller context of that audience member, over the years, when I pick somebody who looks like that, my show tends to go wrong. It tends to go very poorly, because 10 times out of 10, I go, you know what, Jonathan, maybe you're just reading too much into this. Maybe he's just cold baby, he's, so let me bring him up. And then every time I bring that kind of person up, that they are not a good experience for the show. And as a steward of the experience for my audience, I'm doing my audience a disservice by picking that person again and again. So what what you can do is look for the baseline of what that person's normal is, then your pattern recognition will be real good at being able to notice deviations from that, that normal. So that's why it's really difficult for a magician or a mentalist to successfully execute a trick with their best friend or family members, or people that spend all day every day you go, I am the great Jonathan Pritchard from and they're like, Jonathan, shut up, I changed your diapers, man, like just stop it and be like, they they know the affectation, right? From the everyday me. So if there's some sort of tick, or weirdness or tension in my shoulder, because I'm uncomfortable, because I'm about to do the tricky move, they will be able to feel that difference. Even if they're not able to point out, Hey, your your right shoulder came up as you were dealing, you need to be aware of that, they'll still be able to go there was something weird. I don't know what it was. But that didn't. I didn't feel like magic that felt like you were trying to do something. And then if I can pull it off with a family member, I know that that skill is is locked down cold, we go all right now there's no chance an audience member is going to be able to perceive that difference from my baseline. All right.
Ari Gronich 1:03:16
Right. So I used to do, I'm a hypnotist certified clinical hypnotist, apparently hypnotherapist and I did take the stage course and how to do stage hypnosis. And I'm, I'm pretty good at at picking the right person that is going to be inducible. And, and stuff for fast. Induction Right. Which, by the way, a fast induction is not as fast as it looks, because everything that they said every bit of what they did before they did the induction was the induction. So just as a cautionary tale. But what I was I you know, I've not ever been able to do is somebody who knew me for more than a year. I could never get if, if I if I knew them for more than a year. They knew me they weren't they were they were just wanting to prove that I couldn't do it. Right. Versus versus the opposite. So I totally get that. That's kind of like, you know, the horse, you know, again, the horse you know versus the horse you don't know. When you don't know something. You can be surprised by it. When you know something and absolute. There's nothing to surprise you. So being in the place of allowing a surprise is the place of being curious. And the place of being curious is wanting to have knowledge that you do not currently have or Wanting to extend the knowledge that you do currently have, right? So
jonathan pritchard 1:05:04
Ari Gronich 1:05:05
So in your line of work, you know, like the things that you do on a daily basis besides the practice besides the stage performing? What is it that you what is like, if there were three things or four things that you can point to that you tell all of your clients that you say to all of the people that are kind of recurring themes? What are those recurring themes that, that you absolutely, you know, that are absolute for you.
jonathan pritchard 1:05:45
Learn Kung Fu. Really, all of what we're talking about is concrete. And physics level true. And you learn that the first time you get punched in the face. I don't care what your mindset is, I don't care what your vision board is, I don't care what your motivation was, I don't care how you were feeling. I don't care what you wanted. I don't care what you intended to do. None of that matters, because you just got punched in the face. And you realize that none of that stopped it from happening. And your instructor who loves you enough to punch you in the face, is teaching you something extraordinarily valuable, which is none of that other stuff matters. If you can't even get out of the way of what's happening to you. So learning to control your base layer, your physical layer of reality is step one ground level for being able to affect any other kind of change at more and more abstract levels. So, learn how to stand, learn how to be balanced, learn how to move in a coordinated fashion, in a disciplined system way. The process of developing that skill set is kind of a holographic or fractal or multi level application, however you want to put it, the process of learning that level of it will be the context that you can now apply to your emotions, or your thoughts, or your breath, or your energy or your time. All those other more abstract levels are more difficult to manage, than learning to stand up, right? So having a physical discipline is your most valuable context to explore all these, what sound like abstract ideas, but really, their fundamental truths that you can prove to yourself by virtue of learning how to not get punched in the face. So everybody goes, Oh, Jonathan, what should I do about this? I'm feeling this way or that and then you can always bring it back down to if somebody were trying to punch you in the face in this way. What would you do about it? Well, they shouldn't be punching me in the face. Well, they are. You're fighting reality right? Now. You're refusing to accept what is real. And only by perceiving what is real? Can you do anything about it? So that doesn't matter right now. They're punching you in the face? What are you going to do about it? Well, I don't want them to punch me in the face. That's a logical thing to feel. And that's not going to stop them from punching you in the face. Their fist is coming at you. It's even closer now. Because you've wasted time wondering why they're doing it, and how it makes you feel and why they should or should not be doing this. And none of that stuff matters. What do you do about it? So that, to me is the world's fastest way to cut through all the chicanery and the the whatnot, that's holding you back from doing things differently than how you've always wanted to do them. Because in that context, you can try out those strategies. That usually takes six months to play out. It can take half a second, and then you try it again, and it still doesn't work. Then you try it again, and it still doesn't work. You try it again. And it works even worse that time. And you're proving to yourself, oh, my best strategies are actually pretty awful. So maybe I should think about doing things differently. Okay, teach, what do I do in this situation? All right, well, you got to make sure you maintain your balance, you got to coordinate your structure, you have to move in a United Way with intention. That's the only way that you can interact with reality and survive contact. So, so legit, have some sort of physical practice, and self defense, or martial arts or whatever, is the most fundamental rock solid foundation that you can build from. Nice, yeah,
Ari Gronich 1:10:51
I've been a martial artist since I was five. I used to work with the PAL program in Santa Monica. And just kind of funny story is, we were we were training. The pal program is the police activities league. And we were training a bunch of kids that were part of the program. So we teach them school stuff, and then, you know, mentor them on school, and then we would teach them martial arts. And for that privilege, we got to do some adult play with the cops. So we, you know, gun takeaway weapons works and things like that. And I was, I was training one of the the newer adults in, in the class, in self defense. And basically, he was doing a punch to the face, but he would do an angle, so he wouldn't be coming towards my face. Right. So he was not allowing me to block or to do anything, because I could just stand there and I would never get hit. So
jonathan pritchard 1:12:07
do me a favor, right?
Ari Gronich 1:12:08
I would tell him, you got to hit me in the chin, you got to go straight for my chin was straight for my chin straight for my chin. And eventually, he did. And he hit me square on the chin. And I was like, I just said, Good. Now you're getting it. Right. He didn't want to work with me again. I want him in the gym. But I'm like, you have to do the movement towards the person in a way that's reality based so that they can in reality go to the defense of themselves. Right. So anyway, it's just an interesting story that goes along with what you're saying. And the chicanery. And as we heard people say, the mishegoss, which means meetings, the craziness of it all. You know, it is actually a really good thing for people to do is train their body to be in a battle. I mean, the benefit is that the majority of people who are who learn martial arts will never get in a fight ever, in their life. Because the aura that they put off the the positioning of their body that the way that they stand and walk just says to people, not the person for me to mess with, right. So it's not about enjoying the fight. It's about the persona, the personality. You know, I tell people, I think we need to get people back into a draft of some sort, whether it's military draft, or civil service, some kind of Peace Corps, it should be a mandatory thing to serve the country and create that kind of level of care for the community and society around you. Right. But also, the discipline of the military is is a good aspect to learn as long as you're not losing yourself in the process.You know,
yeah, you've got to have a system that sets you free, rather than a system that creates a robot clone of somebody else.
Right. And what I loved about Bruce Lee was move like water, you know, like water is you move like water, you flow like what? No set discipline, all of them mix together and then put into action. weigh that anything that comes at him, he's ready for because he didn't train to be rigid, he trained to flow like water. And so you know, good in your mind as well in your body. But what you were saying, you know true that in many cases it starts in the body, the body creates the environment for the mind to thrive. If you have an unhealthy body, you're going to have probably an unhealthy mind or at least a less healthy, less optimized mind. So what would you say? If somebody was at your show? And they start heckling you and telling your tricks from from the audience? What is you know, like, that would be to me a punch in the face, right? So how, how would you because I want you to kind of demonstrate a punch in the fight face and you know, a swerve kung fu is like Aikido is kind of like, use their energy. Right? So how would you How would you deal with that? I wanted to liven it up a little bit.
jonathan pritchard 1:16:19
Yeah. One of my kind of Wing Chun Kung Fu, sayings comes to mind, which is the best self defense is to not be their second best is learn Kung Fu. In a way, I just don't show up for that. So at a more fundamental level, I don't get hecklers anymore. Because I don't design my show in a way that encourages them. And I, I, it might look like a punch to somebody else. It might look like a heckler to somebody else. I just see them trying to hug me real good kind of reframe of what's happening. So very rarely do I ever get somebody who's genuinely heckling. Most of the time, if it's a show stopping event, and it's derailing the experience, it's mainly because that person drank too much. And they lacked the context to understand their way of interacting is not helping everybody have a good time. So there's that part of it. And I want to meet that person with love. And that's another angle to the martial arts thing, which is, you don't have to be angry at your opponent. And it doesn't even have to be an opponent. Sometimes the people you love the most are the closest with the most opportunity to hurt you. And you can't slam their head into the wall, in self defense. So you've got to be really skillful at maintaining your boundaries and your safety, while maintaining the physical well being and emotional well being and intellectual well being of the people you care about. So your natural instinct doesn't have to be annihilate this person. Most performers, and especially comedians, that's their deal, man. I had a heckler last night and I got killed it man, I just shut them down. I'm bares them in front of their wife. It was awesome. Right? Like that's their go to is to meet that interaction with destruction. It's that's not my jam. I've designed my my show, my two day workshops, my keynotes, everything essentially follows this same formula, which is right up front. Greet the audience with warmth, and genuine love and appreciation. Because I know how I make a living is an absolute gift. It's an honor, and a privilege. And the moment I take that for granted, it's all over. So I can't ever be a diva. I am supremely appreciative of the way I get to live my life and have built it. So there's that. So when I walk out on stage, that's the vibe. I playfully accentuate the Yes, yes. You don't know it yet. But I deserved every bit of that applause Thank you, thank you, that kind of thing. They kind of go, okay, he he's got a sense of humor about it, but he's confident I get it. So that's a good establishing line. thin, I do things that the audience can't do. Just right up front. All right, everybody. Let's try this thing together. And then I can do it. Nobody else can. And without saying it explicitly, I say Look, I can do things you can't. And the audience gets it because they just watched it happen. They go against you could do things I can't All right. He's, he's the guy that can do things. I get it. Okay. So that gets communicated right up front. And I need to fulfill that expectation that the audience has. We're gonna see a guy who could do things I can't. That's what they want to see happen, right? Like, that's almost literally what they're paying money for, is to see a guy read minds, I can't remind. So this dude says he could read minds. He better reads minds, man, right. So you have to do what they're expecting to fulfill that checkbox. All right, I got my money's worth. I came to see my greeting show. What do you just did some cool stuff. All right. Everything from here is gravy. I want that done as quickly as possible. Because then I shift to Yeah, yeah, it all makes sense that I can do these things. Because I've spent a lifetime learning to do them. I learned to juggle fire when I was 13 years old hammer nails at my nose when I was 15. Eat fire when I was 18. I've got a whole laundry list of weird skills. And none of that is unexpected. Because I'm the dude on stage here. To me, it's more interesting. To help you guys see what you can do. The whole rest of the show is me being the facilitator of making the audience members, the stars of the show. They are the agents of action. They're the person that predicts the future. They're the person that that does everything. So everything I do is focused on highlighting them as the important person. And now I'm kind of like the talk show host. Sure. Everybody knows this Johnny Carson show. Everybody knows it's Jay Leno. Everybody knows it's Letterman. Those are the names. But they're interesting because their guests, and you watch the show, because the interesting conversations they have. So now who's going to heckle me. Because I'm just there to make their friend look good. And now if there is a heckler, or somebody who is interacting in a not okay way within the confines of this performance, I am now in a position to stick up for my friend who's on stage. And I go, Listen, man, this is not easy to do. This is a scary spot to be in. And my friend right here is doing a phenomenal job. And I'm not going to let you steal this moment from them. So if you can't respect that this person is doing something very difficult, right? Now, I'm going to ask you to leave. Because we don't do that here. And then they go, Oh, I didn't know I was being that kind of an idiot. And you're like you were being that kind of an idiot. So I'm giving you this one opportunity, explicitly outlining what behavior I expect from you, which is to sit down, shut up, and clap when it's time. That is the appropriate way to interact with the show right now. That kind of thing, right? The number of times that I've had to do that infinitesimal compared to the number of times I haven't had to do that. But when you structure your show that way, it's no longer Look at me because I'm the cool man. And now it's a contest of wills. That's just inviting the alpha male in the audience who has the identity of I'm the most interesting person in this room. Right, like, and now that Jonathan guy is making me feel threatened, because my girlfriend is watching him instead of me. And now I need to lash out and I need to attack. Oh, it's fake. You're a phony, right? That's the root of that heckling, is threatening that person's identity as whatever. So I don't come out claiming to be the thing that would threaten them. And suddenly that behavior doesn't happen.
Ari Gronich 1:24:14
So let's translate that as as kind of the last bit of cool advice. let's translate that to business and life. Right? So you have a template when you go on stage. People don't have a template to live their life, but they can make one. So give us some some hints on how somebody can make a better template. Well, I'm not going to qualify it with better or worse but can make a template for their life. That creates audience participation versus the kind of heckling and interaction right? So lifes participation going with your template versus being a thorn in the template.
jonathan pritchard 1:25:10
It's cliche, but for a reason it works. Which is to be more interested in other people than being interesting. And that shows up in the Jim Rohn. The everybody who recognize this recognizes this always taps into the same thing, which is that if you try to make yourself great, you're gonna have a real hard time, and nobody's going to want to be around you. If you make other people feel great, and be great, you're going to get everything you've ever wanted in life. I've been able to travel the world I everything I've ever wanted to do, I've gotten to do, because for 70 minutes, I can make random strangers feel like a million bucks. That's it. That's really it, is to get out of your own head, figure out how you can use your skills, your time, and your energy and imagination. To help as many people as possible in a way that's mutually beneficial. I'm not saying to set yourself on fire for somebody else to keep them warm. It's not at your expense. It's what kind of Win Win dynamics Can you recognize, to offer to people that will make their life better. That's why I love the marketplace so much. That's why I love the free exchange of value for value. Because the better you get at helping more people more quickly, the more you're rewarded. So in a way, a free market, ultimately rewards selflessness for your own selfish needs. So the The more you focus on how you can serve the market, the more wealthy you'll get in terms of relationships, time, energy, money, whatever your preferred resource is, the only way you're going to get more of it, is by being of better service to other people. And the longer you stay hung up on what's this getting for me? Or how can this person make me feel important? Yeah, good luck. You're not gonna get very far.
Ari Gronich 1:27:47
That's awesome. I like I'm gonna end and the ended on that note of being in service to others. And, Jonathan, how can people get ahold of you if they wanted to, to connect?
jonathan pritchard 1:28:02
The best place to go is Jonathanpritchard.me/social, if you want to just kind of see the laundry list of irons in the fires that I've got. That's kind of my my central hub. So Jonathan pritchard.me
is the main website where I put all my projects of my speaking training, painting, crypto stuff, virtual reality, artworks, augmented reality, artworks, just anything and everything lives on that hub. I'm most active on Twitter, at real j Pritchard. That's my handle. For now. I changed every once in a while. So that's why I go to the hub, then you'll be able to find all my different social channels. But Twitter is where I'm most active. I like to say it's, it's a lot like being locked in a car with me for 15 hours, and whatever idea comes up. I'll say it out loud. I say it out loud on Twitter.
Ari Gronich 1:29:02
Alrighty, cool. Thank you so much for being here. It's been a great conversation. I know that the audience has gotten a lot of good, you know, just enjoying the conversation, but a lot of good actionable things that they can do to create their new tomorrow today. And so I really appreciate you, you being here. And thank you for listening. Thank you for participating. Remember to review and subscribe and rate the show, comment as you will because we love hearing the comments and being able to interact with you as well. So this has been another episode of create a new tomorrow. I'm your host, Ari Gronich. Thank you so much for being here, Jonathan, and good night. Thank you for listening to this podcast. I appreciate all you do to create a new tomorrow for yourself and those around you. If you'd like to take this information Are there and are interested in joining a community of like minded people who are all passionate about activating their vision for a better world. Go to the website, create a new tomorrow.com
and find out how you can be part of making a bigger difference. I have a gift for you just for checking it out and look forward to seeing you take the leap and joining our private paid mastermind community. Until then, see you on the next episode.