0:02

When we come to a conversation with someone,

0:04

we're not just bringing our words, we're not just

0:06

bringing our tone, we're bringing that inner narrative with

0:08

us. So if we are telling

0:10

ourselves lies, if I'm saying to myself, you

0:12

know, I'm struggling with I'm a lazy wife,

0:14

I'm not doing this, or he thinks I'm

0:16

a lazy wife, all of that is going

0:19

to come into the conversation as well. And

0:21

so it's on us to make sure

0:23

that we're believing truth. It's

0:26

Gina Flood describing how easily a

0:29

husband and wife can slip into

0:31

conflict, even in the most loving

0:33

of marriages. You'll hear

0:35

more from Gina and her husband, Pastor Rob

0:37

Flood on today's episode of Focus on the

0:39

Family. Thanks for joining

0:41

us. I'm John Fuller, and your host

0:43

is Focus President and author Jim Daley.

0:46

John, let's be honest, communication is difficult.

0:48

There's a banner for marriage. Have

0:50

you ever had that experience where you say, honey, that is

0:52

not what I was saying. Put your

0:54

hand up if that's you. I've been married a

0:56

long time. That's why I put that little qualifier. We

0:58

can't guarantee it's going to be perfect, but we can

1:00

help. I know. And how many times does that

1:02

happen? And on, you know, both

1:05

sides, both spouses usually will have that

1:07

where they're misunderstood. And it's so important

1:09

that you get through that moment as

1:11

quickly as possible, right? So

1:13

it doesn't last for a season, but sometimes it does.

1:16

You're just not communicating the way you want to.

1:19

And if that's what you're experiencing, this program today

1:21

is going to be for you. And I'm excited

1:23

to talk about how to tune up that

1:25

marriage communication today. Yeah, we have, as

1:28

I said, Rob and Gina Flood with

1:30

us. Rob is a pastor and he's

1:32

in charge of community and care at

1:34

Covenant Fellowship Church in Pennsylvania. And

1:37

he and Gina have been married over 25 years. They

1:39

have six kids. And Rob has written

1:42

a book called With These Words, Five

1:44

Communication Tools for Marriage and for Life.

1:47

And of course, we have that here at Focus on

1:49

the Family. Just click the link in the episode notes. Rob

1:52

and Gina, welcome to Focus on the Family. Thanks

1:54

for having us. It's good to have you.

1:56

I love the opening question here about day

1:58

six of your honeymoon. You had some kind

2:00

of like blow up and

2:02

so many people have something like that

2:05

But honeymoons tend to bring out both

2:07

the best and the worst in us. What was

2:09

your day six like? Yeah,

2:11

so we had a we had a wonderful engagement.

2:13

It was a very long engagement It was a

2:15

too long engagement. It was a too long engagement.

2:17

Give me an idea. How long? 19

2:20

months we were in dad. I

2:23

was probably 12 months too long But

2:25

we used that time to get ready

2:28

and we worked through sticky stuff in

2:30

the engagement But when it

2:32

came time to the wedding we thought we

2:34

had worked through any challenges We thought we

2:36

had worked through any of the communication struggles

2:38

We were having and there was

2:40

an area of sin in our lives in

2:42

our relationship prior to our wedding that

2:45

we had confessed to one another confessed

2:47

to God and come clean with Friends

2:50

and then we got married expecting happily

2:52

ever after to begin We

2:55

went to the happiest place on earth for

2:57

our honeymoon. We went to Disney World and And

3:00

it was actually there on day six that

3:03

we got into a conflict It

3:06

started very small. Wait a second at Disney

3:08

World you got into conflict. We did in

3:10

a beautiful hotel As

3:12

we were getting ready for a beautiful dinner on

3:15

that Thanksgiving Thanksgiving. It was actually

3:17

on Thanksgiving I don't remember any

3:19

of it. You don't remember any of it.

3:21

Well, this I remember Conflict

3:24

but I could I can he tells me what

3:26

it's about. I don't remember Well, there's about a million

3:28

people right now going. Yeah, tell us what it was so

3:31

the area of sin prior to

3:33

our marriage was in physical intimacy

3:35

and Now that

3:37

it was sanctified and it was allowed

3:39

I think we just

3:41

assumed as young people that it all of

3:44

that baggage would go away and Went

3:47

and it did not and

3:49

so as we were Working

3:51

through those challenges It

3:55

became very tense. So We

3:57

stepped back from what we started to talk and we

3:59

didn't. Well about it. or

4:02

we talked in accusations about

4:04

it that blew up. Probably.

4:07

About forty five minutes of old. Maybe

4:09

the the loudest argument we've ever had.

4:11

Day six, in a manner in which

4:13

were about twenty five and a half

4:15

years and at this point so young

4:17

and that was the worst argument we

4:19

had. It ended with her leaving the

4:21

hotel room. I went to sleep. Because

4:25

you were distraught that isn't selling a

4:27

normal thing that let it heal person

4:29

under stress. My do. It was an

4:31

area I actually the first couple years

4:33

of our marriage conflict. The stress of

4:36

conflict in our marriage. I processed by

4:38

getting very fatigued and did not press

4:40

into more communication. I hadn't learned that

4:42

about myself on day six yet or

4:44

that that was a pattern and so

4:47

are we had we went to dinner

4:49

that night or. During.

4:51

A truce. Had a

4:53

fine dinner. But. When we

4:55

came back. Things which is not the same:

4:58

We didn't have the same level of

5:00

trust from one another, We didn't have

5:02

the same level of comfort, just interpersonal

5:04

intimacy was really awkward. I

5:06

think it's it's worth noting does. As an

5:08

aside, I think there is a mess out

5:11

there that. When you get

5:13

married, that intimacy should be easy

5:15

and fine, because now you're married

5:17

and I think that a lot

5:19

of new couples can be really

5:21

discouraged because it's not. It's sometimes

5:24

it is, but sometimes it's not.

5:26

and so I think it's It's

5:28

a good, missed authentic class and.

5:30

Let known that. You.

5:33

Can talk to somebody? Let's move. You

5:35

know that you've done a great job

5:37

laying the groundwork and were conflict was

5:39

there. but then you later and I

5:41

don't know how much later want to

5:43

hear that you begin to think maybe

5:45

I married the wrong person was at

5:47

both of you are most wanted Sex

5:49

With that that might have been day

5:51

six damage. They say that that thought

5:53

entered your mind and then how did

5:55

you process that And how did you

5:57

obviously been married twenty five years now?

5:59

So. you found your way

6:01

through that doubt but explain that that

6:04

process. Yeah that first year I would

6:06

say we went through quite a bit

6:08

of second-guessing distancing from

6:10

one another. We lived together

6:13

we were we funked the house functioned

6:15

but we didn't really

6:17

function relationally. About 15

6:20

months later is when we started to

6:22

put this back together but it

6:24

was in one of those conversations that

6:27

we discovered right about the nine-month mark

6:29

of our marriage. We each had begun

6:31

in our own way privately praying that

6:34

the Lord would either take me

6:37

or the Lord would take her because

6:39

we had this strange Christian

6:42

conviction that divorce

6:44

wasn't permissible that's not the strange Christian

6:47

conviction but since divorce wasn't permissible the

6:49

only way out of this was for

6:51

one of us to die and

6:54

we were praying that before our first anniversary

6:57

and so now

6:59

we're 15 months in and we're

7:01

confessing these things to one another.

7:03

I think it's worth noting that in this time

7:05

we were we were functioning

7:07

in the church. We each

7:09

had ministries that we were either

7:11

leading or participating in small groups

7:14

we were participating in and you

7:17

know people would say how are the

7:19

newlyweds and nobody really

7:21

wants to hear we're so bad we're

7:24

in such bad shape they you know

7:26

the traditional response would be it's great

7:28

it's wonderful it's everything I've dreamed and

7:30

so we would answer affirmatively but inside

7:33

it it wasn't and I think again

7:35

I think there are a lot of

7:37

new couples who find themselves in a

7:39

similar situation. If you could roll

7:41

that tape back with the wisdom

7:43

that you have today what would

7:45

you say to that first year

7:47

newlywed couple where it's not great should

7:50

they say to somebody they

7:52

can trust you know what it's not good

7:54

we're in trouble. I

7:57

would say that I would say you need to do it

7:59

in community. You need to live

8:01

that out in community particularly I would

8:03

think that an older couple who's further

8:06

ahead of you would be really beneficial

8:08

in that because they have worked through

8:10

seasons of trial and

8:12

difficulty and seasons where they were further

8:15

apart than together. I mean I don't

8:17

want to jump ahead but did that happen for

8:19

you? Did you find a couple who was willing

8:21

to stand with you or that somebody you

8:23

could trust or did you have to kind of you

8:26

know, trunch through this on your own

8:28

kind of the marriage jungle if I

8:30

could call it that? In the rebuilding

8:32

process what we discovered were some ministries

8:34

that intentionally build marriages

8:37

and they

8:40

taught us truths that we first started

8:42

to apply to one another. Well

8:45

this is what the Bible says you should be doing.

8:47

This is what the Bible says you should be doing.

8:49

How'd that go? Well it kept things in a very

8:51

bad place. Just

8:54

later we started to take those same truths

8:56

and apply them to ourselves and

8:59

that's when we started to see the grace

9:01

pour into the relationship. That's

9:03

when we saw one confession lead to

9:05

forgiveness for ten different things and

9:07

God just put a wind to our back

9:10

and as he was putting us back together

9:13

he simultaneously gave us a desire to

9:16

be used of God to help marriages

9:18

avoid or at least work through the

9:20

very thing we had to walk through.

9:23

You know what's interesting there what hopped

9:25

into my mind when you said that

9:27

was it's not truth that's nullified. Truth

9:29

is active. It's your misappropriation of the

9:31

truth. That's a pretty powerful statement.

9:34

Apply it to yourself that seems scriptural right?

9:36

Look at your own heart before you look

9:39

at your spouse's heart. We say

9:41

going to our marriage with a

9:43

rake where you're raking in God's

9:45

truth rather than a shovel. Oh

9:48

interesting. Shoveling the truth onto your spouse.

9:50

Yeah and that's a good way to

9:52

envision that. You also mentioned something called

9:55

the foolish marriage and

9:57

how people need to.

10:00

recognize, I guess, what the definition of

10:02

a foolish marriage is. What is it?

10:05

Yeah, well, that chapter flows out

10:07

of Proverbs 18, where there's all

10:09

of these characteristics of a

10:12

fool. And after 12 years

10:14

of marriage counseling, you start to see these

10:16

patterns develop in the couples

10:19

that you care for. And we saw it in our

10:21

own relationship as well. This

10:23

is where the fool is

10:25

contentious. He's looking for an

10:27

argument. He doesn't look how

10:29

to overcome or to overlook an offense.

10:32

He looks how to take one up. And

10:34

if we can help couples, whether it's

10:37

a husband or a wife, sometimes it's

10:39

both. If we can help them just

10:41

realize their responses to their spouse are

10:44

what really throws the gasoline on the

10:46

fire. Oh, yeah. That if

10:48

they would just respond with a gentle

10:51

word, right? Proverbs 15 1.

10:53

If they would respond without looking for

10:55

a fight, then what

10:57

you'd have is a sin that fell

10:59

to the ground. And it's not an

11:01

offense that got picked up. And you

11:03

have peace in the home. And the

11:06

gospel continues to reign in the relationship.

11:08

Rob, you have a knife analogy. I wanted to

11:11

make sure we get to that. What was the

11:13

knife analogy? And what can we learn from that?

11:16

So one of the things

11:18

that's very important to realize is when

11:21

if your wife or your spouse ends

11:23

up sinning against you, that can land on you

11:26

as a wound, right? And

11:28

nothing you're going to do is going to undo that.

11:31

What we need to be conscious of is we don't

11:33

take a knife and then

11:35

hurt our spouse back. What that ends

11:37

up doing is she cuts me the

11:39

first time with her comment. If

11:42

I cut back, that only adds another

11:44

wound to the marriage. It

11:46

adds another thing that has to be

11:48

forgiven, another thing that has to be

11:50

healed. So now because of my retaliation,

11:53

it's not a response, it's really a

11:55

retaliation. We've now got two

11:57

things we've got to deal with. We're damaged

12:00

and so it's important as someone

12:02

who's being sinned against that we

12:04

realize okay I've not just been

12:06

sinned against the marriage has been

12:09

let me not further damage this by

12:12

adding another sin or another offense

12:14

to the problem. Let

12:17

me pick up on this same theme

12:19

because you guys really experienced this where

12:21

one of you was saying something that

12:23

was misunderstood and it described

12:25

an example or two of how that impacted

12:28

your relationship. It can still happen.

12:31

No, it still happens. No, I wrote the

12:33

brain it still happens. Because it's true. There's

12:36

no perfection on this side of heaven, right? And

12:38

so we're gonna stumble hopefully we have longer periods

12:40

of time where we can run the good race

12:42

but somewhere along the line we do trip a

12:44

little. I think the tools that

12:47

are in Rob's book are excellent. There

12:49

are tools that we use in

12:52

our communication regularly the tools that we've

12:54

either heard about along the

12:56

way, read about along the way, developed

12:59

and those tools I think are really the

13:01

foundation. They really are. One is mirroring. What were

13:03

you getting at Rob when you talked about mirroring?

13:05

So this is a wonderful let me give an

13:07

example from that first year of our marriage and

13:09

how mirroring would have helped. We

13:12

had a disposition of judging one another. We

13:14

were not being gracious. There was no charity

13:16

we were giving to one another and so

13:18

if she would say to me very innocently

13:20

if she were to say hey Rob have

13:23

you taken the trash out what

13:25

I'm hearing is you think I'm lazy

13:27

and negligent, okay? You can see that's

13:29

gonna go well. I love the

13:31

reminder. If I said to her hey what time is dinner

13:33

she's thinking

13:37

oh he doesn't think I'm gonna cook

13:39

for him tonight. There was this this

13:41

judgment we're adding but not voicing, right?

13:43

So the tool of mirroring there for

13:45

a couple that's looking to work through

13:47

some of these misunderstandings she says

13:49

you know have you taken the trash out? The

13:51

best response is for me to say oh no

13:54

I haven't thanks for the reminder but

13:56

if I'm in a bad place and

13:58

I'm offended by that other innocent

14:00

comment, if I want

14:02

our marriage to press towards godliness, I need

14:04

to respond by saying, you know, hey sweetheart,

14:07

did you mean to judge me as lazy?

14:11

What did you mean when you said that? Were

14:14

you just asking me to take the trash

14:16

out? That kind of clarifying question that mirrors

14:19

back to her what it is that I heard

14:21

her say, and now she gets to say, oh

14:23

no no no, it's not what I meant at

14:26

all. And in the tool, in the

14:28

chapter on that tool of mirroring, one

14:30

of the most important pieces of this

14:33

tool is that the person who

14:35

originally made the statement, in this case it'd be

14:37

Gina, she gets to decide what she meant and

14:39

didn't mean. Right. Right. So she says, you know,

14:41

did you take out the trash? When

14:44

you say that Gina, are you are you meaning to judge

14:46

me? No, no, I'm not. Well, yes you are. Well, now

14:49

I've just obliterated the tool because I'm

14:51

committed to conflict. I'm the fool in

14:53

that moment, committed to conflict. But she

14:55

gets to decide what she meant. If

14:57

I say something, if we're talking through

14:59

a significant parenting

15:01

conversation, and

15:04

I suggest that we don't discipline this

15:06

way but this way, she

15:08

could think, well he doesn't want to discipline, he doesn't want to punish

15:10

the kid. All she has to

15:12

say is, so here's what I'm hearing you say, and

15:15

now I get to say yes, that's what I'm

15:17

saying, we get to move forward without misunderstanding. Or

15:19

no, no, no, that's not what I meant. I

15:22

get to decide what I meant and then I

15:24

clarify and we move on. That's when the tool

15:26

of mirroring really helps. Yeah, I know that and

15:29

it's really good. I like that and every couple

15:31

at every stage of their marriage can employ that.

15:33

The earlier you do it in your marriage, the

15:35

better off you're going to be. As you're

15:37

describing this, something that pops into my mind

15:39

is when we come to a conversation with

15:41

someone, we're not just bringing our words, we're

15:43

not just bringing our tone, we're bringing that

15:45

inner narrative with us. So if we are

15:48

telling ourselves lies, if I'm saying to myself,

15:50

you know, I'm struggling with I'm a lazy

15:52

wife, I'm not doing this, or he thinks

15:54

I'm a lazy wife, all of that is

15:56

going to come into the conversation as well.

15:58

And so it's all on us to

16:01

make sure that we're believing truth. Absolutely.

16:05

Let me touch on something

16:07

you also mentioned in your book with these

16:09

words, and that is

16:11

the different behavior we tend to

16:13

express between work and home. I

16:16

mean, work were very polite. I mean, I

16:18

can get, I understand that. I mean, even

16:20

back when I worked with the International Paper,

16:22

I mean, you're always treating people with deference.

16:25

Did you happen to get that order incorrectly that

16:27

I need by next week? But

16:30

at home, we can put on a different attitude,

16:33

which is, where's that thing we talked about getting?

16:35

I thought you were picking that up. How come

16:37

you didn't take that dry cleaning in, or whatever

16:39

it might be? But there seems

16:41

to be less generosity, I guess is the

16:43

right way to say it. Why wouldn't we

16:45

reverse that, or not reverse it necessarily, but

16:47

be kind to all? That's what the scripture

16:49

calls us to do. Well,

16:53

that's a good question. Why? The reasons could

16:55

vary. One of the primary reasons

16:57

that I've discovered is

16:59

people feel the

17:02

consequences of

17:04

being ungenerous at

17:06

work immediately. You're

17:08

concerned the consequences would

17:11

bring a bad result in

17:13

your life. And at home,

17:15

the consequences often happen gradually.

17:18

And so we give ourselves all of

17:20

this slack at home where we don't,

17:22

when we're talking with church members, or

17:25

in our small groups, or at work,

17:28

and the dichotomy

17:30

that this shows is

17:33

not just intended to make the person

17:35

feel bad. Well, look, you're duplicitous. That's

17:37

not what we're after. What

17:39

I'm after in pointing it out is that

17:41

you really can do this. You

17:44

can be gracious if you're spoken too

17:46

harshly. You do it at work all the

17:48

time. You can ask a

17:50

clarifying question to make sure you get

17:52

what's being said so your work reflects

17:54

the directions you're being given. These are

17:57

skills and tools that you can. can

17:59

do. So now let's do it in

18:01

the most important relationship in your life.

18:03

And it's so good to remember you

18:05

should never treat your spouse worse

18:08

than you would treat somebody at work.

18:10

I mean it sounds simple. You should

18:12

be treating them far better. That's right.

18:15

I mean that's the point. I mean this is your

18:17

cherished spouse and it's a good reminder

18:19

in that regard. My wife

18:21

and I can relate to something you also mentioned

18:24

in the book and that is the night owl,

18:26

the morning person. Gina, I think you're the morning

18:28

person which I am as well and Gene's the

18:30

night owl and Rob Dutchett. So

18:33

one of the pictures I could paint here is

18:36

it's 10, 11 o'clock at night, I'm ready to

18:38

go to bed, I can't even put two

18:40

words together and I lay

18:42

down and Gene says, can we talk for

18:44

a minute? And I'm like what? Never

18:48

going anywhere but down the toilet. I

18:51

mean are you listening to me? I can't believe you

18:53

fell asleep last night when I was telling you about

18:55

my girlfriend. But, Gina,

18:58

you've experienced that, right? Yes, yes we

19:00

have. We discovered pretty early on that if

19:02

there was going to be any kind of

19:04

serious conversation that it needed to

19:06

happen before 10 p.m. There

19:08

was one night when we were in bed and he,

19:12

we're in bed, the lights are out, he's like starting

19:15

to unburden to me something he's struggling with, a

19:17

real struggle, something that we would typically have a

19:19

conversation with. Now we had been married several years

19:21

at this point. We had worked through a lot

19:23

of rough thoughts, so that should

19:25

be said. But I, nothing

19:29

left. So I was like honey, do you

19:31

want me to draw you out or can

19:33

I just tell you what your sin is?

19:38

And I'm really tired. I'm really tired. Let's

19:40

finish the content of the chase. She wanted

19:42

to be helpful. I knew it was like

19:44

1130, right? And so it's burdening me. Just

19:46

tell me my sin, G. Just tell me

19:49

I need your insight. But

19:51

I wouldn't start relationships there. You want

19:53

to build to a place of confidence

19:55

and trust. Sure, of course. But this

19:58

is the comedy of it. other

20:00

well enough to know when to pop

20:03

this big point and you know want

20:05

some feedback that's really knowing your

20:07

spouse well enough to know when will I get the

20:09

highest response rate possible. Right

20:11

and that's part of the tool of proper

20:13

timing here is just knowing one another

20:15

sometimes it's reading the person has had a

20:18

really hard day and

20:20

you know what this can wait till tomorrow or

20:22

this can wait till the weekend so that I

20:24

get him or her at their best just

20:27

applying that tool of proper timing

20:29

really avoid so many unnecessary

20:32

places of conflict. Right

20:34

and you've just you've established healthy

20:36

communication habits so it can be

20:38

done expediently and you can

20:40

kind of kind of go past

20:42

all of the the

20:45

guardrails that you put up to make sure

20:47

that the communication goes well you can just you can

20:49

just get to it but you're on the same page.

20:51

Right yeah right at the end here

20:53

Rob and Gina I want to ask both of you to kind

20:56

of circle back to those early years and

20:58

those difficulties prayer

21:01

which I said probably is the most

21:03

important but a close second would be

21:05

forgiveness and I can only imagine many

21:07

people listening right now if they're in

21:09

the you know

21:11

the pit of despair with their marriage they're not

21:13

communicating well they're kind of where you were on

21:16

day six there's gonna be some people listening right

21:18

now who are in that spot they're

21:20

thinking I married the wrong person everything you

21:22

both thought about 25 years ago

21:26

how do you apply forgiveness effectively rather than

21:28

superficially if I could say it that way

21:30

and to be honest I've done it both

21:33

ways where I you know you're forgiven John

21:35

that's okay fine but I haven't really done

21:37

it there's something bubbling still but I don't

21:39

want to deal with it and in marriage

21:41

that can happen frequently let's

21:43

just get past it you're not really

21:45

forgiving and then there's true forgiveness where

21:48

honey I didn't you know I

21:50

didn't take that offensively so

21:52

speak to that dynamic and really that

21:54

specific person listening right now who's dying

21:56

in their marriage mmm if

21:59

you have to The time to do it. The. Best

22:01

way to go about it. Is to deal

22:03

with your own send first. Because

22:05

if you can come to a place for

22:08

you. Realized that I will never need to

22:10

forgive my. Spouse more. Than.

22:12

What I have been forgiven. In

22:14

Christ. Then.

22:17

You can come to a place

22:19

where you can extend forgiveness and

22:21

be genuine about. It. To them and

22:23

be pushy a little on that that why's

22:25

that is saying? You know my husband. he's

22:27

probably far worse. And Rob was ever. And

22:30

and again and just try to tease out

22:33

that person listening that has that hard. To.

22:36

Even say that it made him

22:38

be true. But you have to.

22:41

Grapple with that and understand that. Like

22:43

you said, Jesus died for each one

22:45

of us. Yeah. He. Has

22:47

a night and you may be in a

22:49

worse place and we were and your husband

22:51

may be much worse to me are and

22:53

and you may be in a place where.

22:56

You. May be in danger and you need to

22:58

seek shelter and release d before you can do

23:00

any of these things. But.

23:04

I want to encourage. Women

23:07

to might be in a position

23:09

like that and to not give

23:11

up hope. You have a God

23:13

who is created the universe who

23:15

is holding everything together for him

23:18

and by hand your body is

23:20

being held together by his will

23:22

see can do a work and

23:24

youths we you know we don't

23:26

even have to be willing. He

23:29

says in his word, we just have to want to be.

23:31

Willing. While. And then

23:33

he will work seat you even

23:35

have to get yourself to a

23:37

place of willingness you just have

23:39

to get yourself still plays of

23:41

i want to be willing lord

23:43

to see. where my sin

23:45

as in the situation i want

23:47

to be willing to forgive my

23:49

husband of all of these things

23:51

debts feel so unforgiveable and and

23:53

surmountable i want to be willing

23:56

lords and you lay that out

23:58

before the lord and that is

24:00

like a feast and he can

24:02

do so much with that. I so appreciate

24:04

that and of course the shoe can be on

24:06

the other foot. We talked about the wounded wife

24:08

but you know husbands can have their wounds as

24:11

well and I want to make sure we recognize

24:13

that. But Rob and Gina what a great discussion.

24:15

I'm so glad you know when you think about

24:17

it your desire to stay committed. The fact that

24:20

divorce was never an option for you. I so

24:22

appreciate that and now 25 years

24:24

later you know your marriage is in a

24:26

much better place. That's one of the things

24:28

I was talking to Gene just yesterday about

24:30

couples that I know that have given up

24:32

so early because they hit a

24:34

valley and didn't have the capacity to

24:37

get through that valley and to see

24:40

the next mountaintop. There are going

24:42

to be those kind of vacillating

24:44

mountaintop experiences and valley experiences in

24:46

marriage. For young married couples I

24:48

would say hang in there. Do

24:51

not give up because the longer

24:53

you stay together in a Christ

24:55

oriented relationship the deeper it goes

24:58

the better it gets and

25:00

it's hard to see that when you're

25:02

in that difficult spot. But it's

25:05

true and you guys have done a

25:07

great job expressing that today. Let me

25:09

say to listeners if you're in that

25:11

position and you're really wanting to do

25:13

the deeper gardening of your relationship your

25:15

marriage get the weeds up just

25:18

to use all the metaphors. This

25:20

is a great book with these

25:22

words. It's not complex it just

25:24

helps you to understand communication and

25:27

the idea that you need to avoid

25:29

that responsive nature that's in our flesh

25:32

and be more Christ like and how

25:34

you respond to your wife or your

25:36

husband. Pretty simple but hard to do.

25:39

Get in touch and get a copy of

25:41

this book with these words, 5 Communication Tools

25:44

for Marriage and Life and when you're online

25:46

or have us on the phone ask about

25:48

our free marriage assessment. It'll help you see

25:50

some strengths and maybe an area or two

25:52

to grow in. That's immediate

25:54

and you can access that online.

25:57

The link is in the episode notes or a number in

25:59

the description. is 800 the letter A and the

26:01

word family. And also let me just mention

26:03

as we often do, if you

26:05

can send a gift of any amount to focus on the

26:08

family to be part of the ministry, we'll send you a

26:10

copy of Rob's great book with

26:12

these words as our way of

26:14

saying thank you for partnering with us at Focus

26:16

on the Family. If you can't

26:18

afford it, we're going to trust others. We'll

26:20

cover the cost of that. It's such a

26:22

good basic marriage tool that we want

26:24

to get it into your hands. So let us know either

26:26

way. Become a partner with Focus

26:28

and we'll send you the book to say thank

26:31

you. If you can't afford it, we'll trust others.

26:33

We'll provide for you. And

26:35

once again, our phone number is 800-AFAMLY

26:37

or donate and get the book when

26:40

you click the link in the episode

26:42

notes. Rob and Gina, thanks for

26:44

being with us. Thank you for

26:46

the conversation and thanks so much for having us.

26:48

It's been a privilege. So great to

26:50

be here. Thank you. And thank

26:52

you for joining us as well. And

26:55

coming up tomorrow, helping young men find

26:57

a greater, more godly vision for their

26:59

lives. And unfortunately, in church culture,

27:01

I would say, we kind

27:03

of just default to, well, just stand up, be a man.

27:07

But what does that mean? Like specifically,

27:09

what's a beautiful, specific vision?

27:12

On behalf of the entire team, thanks for joining

27:14

us today for Focus on the Family with Jim

27:16

Daly. I'm John Fuller, inviting you

27:18

back as we once again help you and your

27:21

family thrive in Christ. Is

27:28

your marriage holding on by a thread? For

27:30

deep hurt you need deep healing that only

27:32

comes from the Lord. And you'll find it

27:35

at a Focus on the Family Hope Restored

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intensive in Michigan. Our licensed Christian

27:39

counselors will help you and your spouse get to

27:41

the root of your issues in just 3-5 days.

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And it works! 80%

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of the couples are still married 2

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years after attending. Learn more at hoperestored.com

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and talk with a trusted advisor. That's

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hoperestored.com