0:03

It's not like we have to get rid of anxiety

0:05

and then we can be at home with the

0:07

Father and the Son and the Spirit. Actually

0:09

the Father and the Son and the Spirit come to make

0:11

a home with us in our

0:14

anxiety. Well that's Curtis

0:16

Chang and he joins us today on Focus

0:18

on the Family with Jim Daley. I'm John

0:20

Fuller. John, when it comes to mental health

0:22

issues, anxiety is right at the top of

0:25

the list. I think

0:27

post-pandemic there are a lot of people

0:29

that are struggling. There are people struggling

0:31

before, but a lot more people are

0:33

struggling now with this issue of anxiety, both

0:35

in the church and outside the church. It's

0:39

something that I feel it would be

0:41

very good of us to cover and

0:43

to better understand what is happening with

0:46

anxiety. Sometimes we could

0:48

say some things in the Christian community that

0:50

are so unhelpful to people that are dealing with

0:52

anxiety. I want today and

0:54

tomorrow's program to kind of

0:57

highlight for us what it is, what

0:59

we can do to use it to

1:01

become better and closer to

1:03

the Lord, which is everybody's goal, right? And

1:05

we have a great guest who's going to

1:07

help us with this. Yeah, and as I

1:10

said, Curtis Chang is joining us. He's a

1:12

writer, speaker, and theologian and has a terrific

1:14

book. It's called The Anxiety Opportunity, How

1:16

Worry is the Doorway to Your Best

1:19

Self. And you can learn

1:21

more about our guest and his book at

1:23

our website. The details are in the show

1:25

notes. Curtis, welcome to Focus on

1:27

the Family. It's great to be here. You know, we're

1:29

going to get to your personal story because what I

1:31

so appreciate about it, who you are, is you're

1:33

a person who has struggled with anxiety.

1:36

And so you're coming not only from

1:38

a theological perspective, but from someone who

1:40

had to do that. But before we

1:42

get there, comment on just the general

1:44

situation with anxiety in the culture. You

1:46

know, when you look at data and

1:48

research, which we do here at Focus

1:50

on the Family, this is a

1:53

continually rising issue in our

1:55

culture. How many of the

1:57

Gen Z'ers are struggling with

2:00

Anxiety It it should concern all

2:02

of us. absolutely. I think you

2:05

any listener to this show. Prop

2:07

almost certainly either in their own

2:09

family or extended family or friends

2:12

and church has a child, a

2:14

teenager, or even adults who they

2:17

are going with Anxiety as the

2:19

latest and I it's to six

2:21

shows. I'm almost sixty percent of

2:24

teenage girls who suffer from very

2:26

significant anxiety or depression. One in

2:28

four has contemplated. Committing suicide because

2:31

of how serious that can defeat us at

2:33

in Four. Stop and just rest there for

2:35

a minute. That's twenty five percent an amazingly

2:37

high number and to cause us to real

2:40

recognized something is wrong that we need to

2:42

address when you look at it as you

2:44

know. I met at a conference and I

2:46

heard you speak and I came back to

2:49

the team and said we've gotta get Curtis

2:51

checking because I a. First of all, I

2:53

really appreciate the title of your book. the

2:56

Anxiety Opportunity. How worry is the doorway to

2:58

your best self? Yeah, you said something. At

3:00

that conference that really caught my

3:03

attention, it was the West and

3:05

the way the church and Western

3:07

medicine, particularly at misses the mark

3:10

in going after anxiety has described

3:12

that force. Again, Yeah, I would

3:14

say both the West's secular mental

3:17

health but also the West's Church

3:19

Evangelical Church A particular. We'd make

3:21

an adjustment here because what we're

3:24

doing is not working and what

3:26

word, what's not working is both

3:28

the church and. Secular mental health

3:31

or treating anxiety solely as a problem

3:33

to solve to make your way. I

3:35

guess what's risks defiance of thing as

3:38

solely a problem we're like looking for

3:40

a solution to make it go away.

3:42

So in the church this is where

3:44

you get in a lot of traditions

3:47

the prey anxiety away just have enough

3:49

face and anxieties was to go away

3:51

because anxieties a spiritual problem. It's either.

3:54

In extreme cases a sin or maybe

3:56

just a lack of faith or character

3:58

flaw. Source was this: Re read enough

4:01

scriptures and anxieties was to go

4:03

away. In. Other traditions. maybe

4:05

they don't spiritually stigmatize anxieties, but

4:07

they still dentist outsource anxiety to

4:09

secular mental health and just say

4:11

we to the settler therapist psychologists

4:13

as of work and in that

4:16

tradition it it it's own version

4:18

of solely treating anxiety is a

4:20

problem to go away rather than

4:22

pray anxiety away, it's prescribe anxiety

4:24

away either with medication or therapy,

4:26

which just to be clear, both

4:28

prayer and therapy a medication I've

4:31

done I'm a fan of. but

4:33

when you engage. That with this

4:35

idea, this paradigm, this framework

4:37

that says anxiety is solely

4:39

a problem Go away. You

4:41

go down a path that

4:43

actually makes anxiety worse than

4:46

know. That's interesting. Let's let's

4:48

kind of. Reveal your childhood

4:50

and yell at you were struggling with

4:52

and take us through that. What was

4:54

child third like And where did that

4:56

anxiety start? Will. Biting my anxiety

4:58

started in a lot of ways,

5:00

but what's interesting is a my

5:02

childhood I didn't have any terms

5:04

or categories to label what I

5:06

was experiencing an exotic. I grew

5:08

up as an immigrant family and

5:10

a Chinese American culture. So in

5:12

that search traditional immigrant culture, the

5:14

response to a child feeling anxious

5:16

is don't be so anxious. You

5:19

have nothing to worry about, our

5:21

just work harder study harder rights,

5:23

arms of performances, big performance as

5:25

big and there's just not a

5:27

category. For anxiety and anxiety

5:29

in a sense brings on shame

5:31

for the family. There's there's something

5:33

wrong with the family. And so

5:35

growing up on I actually wasn't

5:37

interested, but I just didn't have

5:39

any category for it's and another

5:41

reason why I think in addition

5:43

to the cultural reasons, was I'd

5:46

opted what psychologists call highly functional

5:48

anxiety. So a highly functional anxiety

5:50

is There's actually deepens Id going

5:52

on, but the person myself in

5:54

this case has learned very functional

5:56

behaviors to. Cope. And

5:58

cover over com. They ever hear

6:00

a compensates for the anxiety of for

6:02

me it's planning, seeking ahead, working very

6:04

hard, which turns out you do those

6:06

things you get ahead in the world.

6:08

but the anxiety is still there and

6:11

is actually in a way a hidden

6:13

engine for a lot of these behaviors

6:15

of just really staying on top of

6:17

the rights. A part of it is

6:19

a story that I've read in a

6:21

you were what is called a latch

6:23

kids as I write describe her that

6:25

aided your anxiety. I saw get I'm

6:27

an immigrant immigrant family so both parents

6:29

are working so. Or even as

6:31

young as eight years old. I'm

6:33

coming home from school and this may

6:35

not be familiar to all that you're

6:37

younger listeners, but there was a thing

6:39

called a latchkey. Kids were that perfect.

6:41

Even as young as eight years old

6:43

you would go home and you would

6:45

get a key from the last year

6:47

hidden somewhere and you let yourself. Him

6:49

and I just remember this pit of

6:51

in the my stomach feelings of opening

6:53

their doors again. And. Again, this

6:56

is part of what anxiety doesn't generate scenarios and

6:58

ones heads or what to be happening. And my

7:00

scenarios and a year old was somebody broke in

7:02

the house, their ransacking the house and as I

7:04

opened the door I'm going to surprise them and

7:07

they're going to have come down and take care

7:09

of me. not in the good sense of take

7:11

right of me and so I would come home.

7:13

Let myself in enough. I heard a creek was

7:15

an old house. I've started creek in the attic.

7:18

I would go running back out to the front

7:20

of a house out of fear that there was

7:22

a burglar. The house or sisters would come home

7:24

and they're like. What are you doing outside

7:27

And I would come up with a

7:29

cover story like I just wanted to

7:31

play. I just wanted to get some

7:33

fresh air because I could not admit

7:35

to them I didn't have the language

7:37

or the ability to admit to them,

7:39

I'm feeling anxious. That's incredible intensity for

7:41

an eight year old Yamuna intense kid.

7:43

So yeah I do. And I mean

7:46

that yeah, me, Netizens, But this is

7:48

what if we don't actually recognize and

7:50

name anxieties going and going on. We

7:52

have to do something with that's and

7:54

so we again either. Prayed away. prescribe

7:56

it away. or in my case, highly

7:58

function and it away. Yeah, I'm in

8:01

a context in the book you say

8:03

Christians are not spiritual, latch key kids.

8:05

That's I mean. understanding at that's a

8:07

beautiful statement. What do you mean by

8:10

it. Would. I mean by that

8:12

is we don't have to come up

8:14

with our own coping mechanisms to kind

8:16

of makings id go away or to

8:18

managers. We actually have a father and

8:20

a sought a family and God who

8:22

is going to come home and his

8:25

act already has made their homes with

8:27

us and actually has made their home

8:29

with us in anxiety. It's not like

8:31

we have to get rid of anxiety

8:33

and then we can be at homes

8:35

with the father and son in the

8:37

spirits actually the father, the son and

8:40

speared com to. Make a home with us! In

8:42

our anxiety. And this is the

8:44

key thing that us I'm trying

8:46

to convey in the book is

8:48

it's not that we need to

8:50

push anxiety away, prayed away, or

8:52

prescribed away, and then we can

8:54

get our act together enough for

8:56

to have a relationship with God.

8:59

It's actually through anxiety, not away

9:01

from it or around it, or

9:03

but actually through anxiety. That is,

9:05

we're anxieties. Ashley's the opportunity for

9:07

spiritual growth. That's the invitation for

9:09

offices. Curtis. Even in the church,

9:11

you have this dichotomy. Of people

9:13

that do, People that are the

9:15

glass is half full and those

9:17

the glass as half empty. Unfortunately,

9:19

the world and social media and

9:21

news and cable news and I

9:23

mean it is kind of aimed

9:25

right to that anxiety and two.

9:27

Amp it up for thrones is

9:29

what's happening. With that. I've described

9:31

it like a can of something

9:33

has been uncorked. Yards I can't

9:35

is called smartphones and social media

9:37

so language at the research. Johnson

9:40

a site A well respected Social

9:42

Psychologists. He's got a great book coming

9:44

out very soon that just shows pre

9:46

persuasively as as hockey stick rise and

9:49

anxiety especially among teens and children but

9:51

have dealt in general is pretty strongly

9:53

correlated with the rise of smartphones and

9:56

social media. Basically what's happening is we're

9:58

getting bombarded with images that. Are

10:00

designed algorithmically a by the algorithm right

10:02

us to actually stoke anxiety because it

10:04

turns out that anxiety is a great

10:06

driver for clicks it articles. it's very

10:08

sticky as you want to find the

10:10

next thing you're and this is part

10:12

of the sticky ness of when we

10:14

try to make anxiety go away or

10:16

not by going through anxiety but to

10:19

spike hoping it we think the next

10:21

white to next information that will make

10:23

me feel better and the algorithms are

10:25

actually set up to give you some

10:27

relief hits momentarily and then to ramp

10:29

up the. Anxiety. Ah, a little bit

10:31

later to kinda keep you hooked on

10:33

it. And so that's the external costs.

10:35

and I think we can read this.

10:38

Things we need to do as a

10:40

society, as a church to deal with

10:42

the external drivers of anxiety. but I'd

10:44

like in us to a store might

10:46

there's a storm that is caused by

10:49

hi weather patterns, pressure systems that's like

10:51

social media technology, increasing isolation, and our

10:53

side of these are external factors we

10:55

need to actually attend to. But it

10:57

is. He got a storm. I Katrina.

11:00

Or is why did Katrina costs

11:02

so much damage? Yes, there were

11:04

these external factors just like the

11:06

equivalent to technology social media. But

11:08

the real damage was because the

11:10

levees broke right. The structures that

11:12

we'd set up to deal with.

11:15

these external factors were not sufficient,

11:17

were built and are inadequate. foundations.

11:19

That's the message I'm trying to

11:21

get out about. anxiety. Yes, there

11:23

are external causes, but the levees,

11:25

The foundations. The biblical foundations that

11:27

we have erected to deal with

11:29

anxiety. or built on flaw foundations

11:31

and that's what we need to address

11:34

as well great insights today from curtis

11:36

chang he's or guest on focus on

11:38

the family with jim daily and he's

11:40

written a terrific book the anxiety opportunity

11:42

learn more in the show notes or

11:44

give us a call eight hundred the

11:47

litter a and the word family a

11:49

curtis is there again are things that

11:51

we say within the christian community of

11:53

that are both helpful and sometimes unhelpful

11:55

i think slip it's for six i

11:57

think he referred do it as the

12:00

clobber verse describe

12:02

what that tell us what it is and

12:04

then why is it the versus the club

12:06

be anxious about anything yeah and it's often

12:08

used to actually portray anxiety

12:10

as a sin as

12:12

something that you should not have and that

12:14

Paul's statement in force Philippians 4 6 is

12:16

like saying don't be anxious you shouldn't be

12:18

anxious I could almost hear my mom and

12:20

my parents and my culture speaking that to

12:22

me or you know you're

12:25

supposed to pray enough that goes

12:27

away in my book

12:29

I go into more of sort of exegesis for why

12:31

I think that's a misread of Philippians

12:33

4 6 the most obvious reason is in

12:35

Philippians 2 28 earlier Paul talks

12:38

about his own anxiety when his own

12:40

anxiety about sending a paphroditis back

12:42

to the Philippine churches so that my anxieties

12:45

may be addressed so it would

12:47

be very odd if having just a few

12:49

passages earlier Paul saying I'm anxious around this

12:51

whole situation with a paphroditis he goes around

12:54

says and if you're feeling anxious you're sinning

12:56

right so you shouldn't be anxious so you

12:58

know it's and that's just one

13:01

verse but I think more the most

13:03

powerful biblical exegesis about anxiety is just

13:05

to recognize that Jesus

13:08

himself experienced anxiety so

13:10

all the passages around his experience

13:13

when he was about to confront loss the

13:15

loss of all losses his death in

13:18

the Gethsemane and Mark Matthew and Mark

13:20

and Luke or in John 12 in

13:22

the John gospel all portray

13:24

Jesus as emotionally distressed the

13:26

passages are talked about he's

13:28

troubled in his spirit he

13:31

is in anguish he has physical symptoms

13:33

anxiety he's sweating so intensely

13:35

that it's described I think metaphorically as

13:37

sweating blood Jesus is

13:40

experiencing anxiety why because

13:42

he's human he is

13:44

the one true human right and

13:47

when human beings are about to

13:49

or contemplating the possibility of loss

13:51

in the future they will experience

13:53

anxiety that is a natural human

13:56

reaction that Jesus himself went through

13:58

not away or not around, he

14:00

didn't pray it away, didn't make it go away, he

14:02

went through it. Because that's what

14:04

human beings are and that's what true

14:06

human beings do is when contemplated with

14:08

loss, the possibility of loss, we

14:11

feel anxiety and this is why

14:13

it's important to distinguish anxiety from

14:16

anxiety disorder. Right? Anxiety

14:18

is the natural human experience, often

14:21

experienced physiologically or mentally in the

14:23

face of impending loss. Jesus himself

14:25

experiences it. Anxiety disorder

14:27

is the inability to handle,

14:29

to hold, to experience anxiety. This

14:31

is why I love the title of

14:33

the show, How to Handle Anxiety,

14:36

not how to make anxiety go away, but

14:38

how to handle it, how to hold it,

14:40

how to experience it. That's what human beings

14:42

are invited to do because it turns out

14:44

that just like Jesus went

14:46

through his anxiety with the Father, we

14:48

too have the invitation to go through

14:50

anxiety in Jesus with the

14:53

Father and experience true

14:55

transformation. You know, in that

14:58

analogy or that scriptural reference is

15:00

so powerful because, you

15:02

know, of course Jesus was sinless and

15:05

he did experience that anxiety and

15:07

Gethsemane and really his resolution to

15:09

that was not my will but

15:11

your will to God. And

15:14

relate that to the solution,

15:16

you know, when you're having anxiety, the trust

15:18

that we have in God's care for us,

15:21

no matter our circumstances, that

15:23

that will bring you hopefully a place

15:25

to a place of peace and

15:28

rest. Right. And this is where it's

15:31

so important to not label

15:34

anxiety itself as a sin or a

15:36

problem to make go away because if

15:38

we say anxiety is a

15:40

problem to go away, what we're really

15:42

saying is loss is a problem

15:44

to make go away, right? That loss

15:46

itself is something that

15:49

we should not experience, right? And so

15:51

if that's true, then

15:53

we are going down a false gospel

15:55

because what that means is we are

15:58

then portraying God as the great sort

16:00

of insurance scheme in the sky. That's

16:02

supposed to ensure us from experiencing any

16:04

loss, right? Because if anxiety goes

16:06

lost, that means then we have to make

16:08

loss go away if we're saying we're gonna

16:10

make anxiety go away. But to a degree,

16:12

isn't that our culture? I mean we want

16:14

all pain to go away, we want to

16:17

bubble wrap the kids, we don't want them

16:19

to get a boo-boo emotionally, physically. So we're

16:21

kind of as a culture, we're, I

16:24

would say we are dead

16:26

set on protecting our kids at all

16:28

costs and I don't know that that's

16:30

healthy. Well and I think the Christian

16:32

culture has absorbed that and spiritualized that

16:34

in unhelpful ways where we expect that

16:36

the answer to anxiety is to pray

16:38

it away, which actually means you're supposed

16:40

to pray that that loss that you

16:42

fear does not happen, that God

16:44

is going to protect you from that loss

16:46

of job, the marital stress, your kids suffering

16:49

and so forth. And if that's

16:51

true then we're in trouble because I

16:53

think all of us who are Christians for a while have

16:56

come to realize when we pray for loss to go

16:58

away, which is a good right thing, natural human thing

17:00

to do, God does not answer

17:02

every single one of them by saying yes

17:04

I will ensure you are facing that loss,

17:06

just like he did not quote-unquote

17:09

save the son from the loss that

17:11

he experienced on the cross. You mentioned

17:13

a formula in the book, what is

17:16

the formula with dealing with anxiety? Well

17:18

I say anxiety equals loss times

17:21

avoidance. So anxiety equals loss, right? Anxiety

17:23

is what natural human reaction to the

17:25

face of the pending loss, we're

17:27

gonna experience anxiety because we're going to experience loss

17:30

in our life, right? Unless we

17:32

are so deluded that we think that somehow

17:35

we're protected. It's probably the lessons that

17:37

God is showing us for eternal benefit.

17:39

So the I say loss times avoidance

17:42

because the one thing we can

17:44

make anxiety go higher, the multiplier effect, is if

17:46

we actually try to make anxiety go away, try

17:48

to make loss go away, if we try to

17:50

avoid it, right? And if there's nothing wrong

17:52

with asking God So hey,

17:54

please take this cup away from me, Jesus prayed

17:57

that himself.. But Ultimately, we have to make that

17:59

transition to. They but your Will Be

18:01

Done is so this is where if

18:03

we can transition from avoidance too actually

18:06

holding statue where we can actually hold

18:08

last manager handle that suffering. What does

18:10

that look like? Practically though. I mean

18:12

you're dealing with this year a professor.

18:15

This is what you're working with every

18:17

at the every person place. Yeah, what

18:19

does that look like? In fact, I

18:21

think you have some very practical tools

18:23

to help us do that. So what

18:26

does that look like. Why?

18:28

Think I'm. My books

18:30

or outlines I think I'll pass way we

18:32

can fire. Like naming the last name is

18:34

the loss is one of the most important

18:37

thing. What does it sound like that Again,

18:39

just help make as I I'm not sure

18:41

I know what you mean. he limits whole

18:43

story. They illustrates this from my o meu

18:45

most intense experience of anxiety. So what happened

18:48

was I replaced the founding pastor of a

18:50

growing church? I'd never a great job. Either

18:52

way I've I've come to learn. Ah, because

18:54

a lot of people are sort of have

18:56

their eyes on you and you feel this

18:58

great pressure. To measure up to

19:01

the founder. ah I took over just

19:03

same time the to.com bust silicon valley

19:05

so there's a massive exodus of people

19:07

from the regents from the church giving

19:09

goes down and I'm in my first

19:12

year to as the past or how

19:14

to stretch replacing lot of stress but.

19:17

I internalized again this framework that anxiety is

19:19

a sin, a site or lease a sign

19:21

of lack of faith, And how could your

19:24

new pastor go ahead and confess that I

19:26

have? I don't have a slight are I

19:28

lack faith so I just try to work

19:30

harder, do more work. Couldn't name won't

19:33

really was going on it could name. This

19:35

is because I am suffering from anxiety and

19:37

anxiety about my performance and how it's all

19:39

of you will think about me rights. So

19:41

it's instead I say it's workload. It's a

19:43

lot of the more precious demands. So then

19:46

I generally sleep around seven hours a day

19:48

or night that went out about sex. Then.

19:50

Five. Them. For.

19:53

And. i get i couldn't name's

19:55

us as actually this is classic

19:57

signs of anxiety loss asleep name

20:00

it as such. Just kept naming it as

20:02

my body doesn't need as much sleep because

20:04

it's ramping up to face them. Yeah,

20:07

meeting the challenge. Meeting the challenge. Exactly.

20:09

That's right. And then my

20:11

sleep went down to four, then three, two,

20:13

and then I went through a two-week

20:15

period where I do

20:18

not remember consciously falling asleep

20:20

at all. I must have had microsleep because

20:22

your body can't handle it, but I don't

20:24

remember consciously falling asleep for two weeks in

20:26

a row. And that is

20:29

torture. That is like your mind starts

20:31

fracturing. It's an intense form of

20:33

suffering that makes me and

20:35

I got to that and basically that I had

20:37

a breakdown and I actually had to leave the

20:39

past to it because I couldn't function

20:42

anymore. It slid over into a

20:44

deep depression. It got that

20:46

bad because I could not name what

20:48

was happening for me and the name

20:50

it is actually I'm feeling anxiety. I

20:52

just had to push through and that

20:54

my coping mechanisms, my highly functioning strategies

20:56

that had served me so well from

20:58

eight years old on just broke

21:00

down. And this is what can happen with people who

21:03

seemingly are doing well because they

21:05

have really high functioning coping

21:07

mechanisms, but at some point if they

21:10

don't actually name and actually experience and

21:12

deal with their underlying anxiety, it

21:14

can lead to this kind of breakdown. Yeah,

21:17

I mean that's a powerful story in

21:20

terms of how to manage it and how to

21:22

cope with it. You

21:24

shared with us earlier you went to counseling.

21:26

You mentioned that when you're

21:28

dealing with that severe anxiety. When

21:31

would you say it's time to get

21:33

help and what does that help look like? Yeah,

21:37

I think it's time to get help when

21:39

it feels overwhelming. When you realize that I'm

21:42

lacking the tools, I'm lacking the

21:44

ability or when you're feeling very

21:46

alone, I think is another time to

21:48

get really help. When You feel like

21:51

things are very complex and you can't sort it out

21:53

in your mind. having somebody else to help you be

21:55

a listener and a mirror to you can be very

21:57

helpful. So Those are some of the common signs. Curtis

22:00

A one of the key

22:02

pushback we will get. The

22:05

obviously is how we integrate.

22:07

Science. Medication.

22:10

And. Issues. Like

22:13

anxiety and you touched on earlier. But

22:15

I want to go a little bit

22:17

further in this because anxiety I'd something

22:19

we all need to be aware of

22:21

and know how to deal with it

22:24

and be kind of accept the fact

22:26

that we're all going to hit at

22:28

some point in some form or fashion.

22:30

The key there is, yeah, the issue

22:32

of medication In if you have to

22:34

medicaid, then you must not have enough

22:36

faith. Those kind of formulas run through

22:38

ahead and there's guilt. and that enough

22:40

God as an all powerful god. Than

22:43

why Kenny take this away

22:45

from makes address some of

22:47

those com and Kenneth theological

22:49

and medical. Constraints.

22:52

That we suffer from in the

22:54

Christian community. Yeah well. I think

22:56

mental health can be a very

22:58

helpful tool to help us get

23:00

our anxiety into as a level

23:02

where we can actually look at

23:04

it so you know someone Thirty

23:06

nine says search me and know

23:08

me and know my anxious thoughts

23:11

since the key part of the

23:13

how anxiety becomes an opportunity for

23:15

spiritual growth is we can actually

23:17

in a in imitation to God

23:19

invite him to help us new.

23:21

Are anxious thoughts What's really going on there?

23:23

The challenges of has anxious thoughts have gotten

23:26

so big that they're actually overwhelm us that

23:28

we can actually even look at that they're

23:30

just a monster or or there so are

23:32

unclear in our heads. And this is where

23:35

I think is therapy can help help us

23:37

look at it a little more clearly and

23:39

then and medication to help bring the monster

23:42

back down to a little bit more manageable

23:44

size, but also to not feel guilty if

23:46

that is what is needed. Hundred percent that

23:48

this is absolutely part of God's provision to

23:51

humanity. Is medicine and crisis

23:53

in all things so done

23:55

rightly done with the right

23:58

motivations? Ah, I see. They

24:00

provide. I've I've benefited from myself. The

24:02

distinction I want to draw is though,

24:04

is that managing your anxiety bring it

24:06

down to some manageable level is not

24:09

the same thing as spiritual growth. This

24:11

is what secular mental health can't offer

24:13

is a can't actually offer. Anxiety as

24:15

an opportunity for spiritual growth is simply

24:18

the still stuck in the it's a

24:20

problem We have to either make your

24:22

way or at least bring you down

24:24

to manageable size. But it can't see

24:26

it as an opportunity for spiritual heroes

24:29

is at least. In the Fully

24:31

Christian Science and this is where

24:33

I think there's a couple partnership

24:35

between secular mental health and spiritual

24:37

formation when you talk about being

24:40

fully present and described that again

24:42

so you know the person on

24:44

the street can grab what you're

24:46

saying, but being fully present you

24:48

say allows. Anxiety.

24:51

To the the possibility of anxiety be better

24:53

managed to try. It brings it down to

24:55

size because anxiety is the fear of future

24:57

loss right inside his fear. Something that can

25:00

happen in a future serres. This is why

25:02

Jesus and the Sermon on Them Out Matthew

25:04

six as don't worry about tomorrow, come back

25:06

to day, Look at the lilies, look at

25:09

the birds. He's trying to bring his listeners

25:11

back to the present because what happens is

25:13

exact. One way to think about anxiety is

25:15

a hijacker. It's a mental hijackers that basically

25:18

hijacks us from the present moment into the

25:20

future. And because the future is

25:22

unknown, it in the future. Once it's

25:24

anxieties hijacked you into that future states.

25:26

it could spin all sorts of scenarios

25:29

like a burglar has broken into your

25:31

house. Right? Because it's at a future

25:33

scenario. As an eight year old, I'm

25:35

spinning in my head. So one of

25:37

the ways that we bring anxiety back

25:40

down to size that you could do

25:42

without medication right? or or with medication

25:44

even there as a burner is to

25:46

simply learn practices spiritual practices that are

25:48

ancient person spiritual practices of leaving. The

25:51

future of refusing to get hijacked

25:53

in the future and coming back

25:55

into the presence with God and

25:57

things like breathing meditation of scripture

25:59

to be. Pull in this nature

26:01

of can be very helpful as what

26:03

ways for us to actually get back

26:05

to the present. As so true. Curtis

26:08

I loved her. These tools you've shared

26:10

for people to get closer to Jesus

26:12

Three anxiety hit Sounds contradictory but it's

26:14

not. Our fallen world can be a

26:16

scary place but God is faithful so

26:19

we don't have to live in fear

26:21

and to our listeners and viewers. I

26:23

hope you were encouraged to day and

26:25

that you came away with a sense

26:28

of peace not the fear. And

26:30

as some of you might feel like

26:32

you are in a battle with anxiety

26:34

every day or maybe you have a

26:37

child who is struggling. If you could

26:39

use some support we have a team

26:41

of carrying Christian counselors right here for

26:43

you. Add John will have those details

26:45

and just to minutes and I want

26:47

to encourage you to get a copy

26:49

of this great book of Curtis as

26:52

called. The Anxiety Opportunity is full of

26:54

practical tools to help you navigate anxiety,

26:56

make a gift of any amount to

26:58

the ministry and we'll send you a

27:00

copy as our way. Same thank you

27:02

for being a part. Yet you can

27:05

set up a consultation with the counsellors,

27:07

donate and request at work when you

27:09

call eight hundred the letter A in

27:11

the word family, eight hundred to three

27:13

to six, four five nine or look

27:15

for the contact information in the show

27:17

notes on behalf of the entire team.

27:20

Thanks for listening to Focus On The

27:22

Family with Jim Daily. I'm John Fuller

27:24

Advantage you back tomorrow as we have

27:26

more the conversation with Curtis Chang and

27:28

help you and your family. Thrive

27:30

in Christ. Is

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