There is a growing need across social, environmental, and policy challenges for richer, more nuanced, yet actionable and participatory understanding of the world. Complexity science and systems thinking offer hope in meeting this need. But in t

Anthony Hodgson, "Ready for Anything: Designing Resilience for a Transforming World" (Triarchy Press, 2011)

Nov 3rd, 2023 59m 48s

Recently I had a chance to sit down for a long overdue chat with Anthony (Tony) Hodgson. When we last spoke it happened to be for my very first episode of Systems and Cybernetics. We talked about his newest book at the time: Systems Thinking fo

A Better Way to Buy Books

Sep 12th, 2023 34m 29s

Bookshop.org is an online book retailer that donates more than 80% of its profits to independent bookstores. Launched in 2020, Bookshop.org has already raised more than $27,000,000. In this interview, Andy Hunter, founder and CEO discusses his

Frank Jacob, "Wallerstein 2.0: Thinking and Applying World-Systems Theory in the 21st Century" (Transcript Publishing, 2022)

Aug 8th, 2023 40m 22s

Immanuel Wallerstein's world-systems theory can help to better understand and describe developments of the 21st century. The contributors of Wallerstein 2.0: Thinking and Applying World-Systems Theory in the 21st Century (Transcript Publishing,

The Science of Science: A Discussion with Aaron Clauset

Jul 26th, 2023 1h 15m

Listen to this interview of Aaron Clauset, Professor of Computer Science at the University of Colorado at Boulder and in the BioFrontiers Institute. Aaron is also External Faculty at the Santa Fe Institute. We talk about what the science of sci

Robert Falconer, "The Others Within Us: Internal Family Systems, Porous Mind, and Spirit Possession" (Great Mystery Press, 2023)

Jun 23rd, 2023 54m 29s

Today I interview Bob Falconer about his new book, The Others Within Us: Internal Family Systems, Porous Mind, and Spirit Possession (Great Mystery Press, 2023). Falconer’s book is the result of a decade-long journey to understand a phenomenon

Pamela M. Lee, "Think Tank Aesthetics: Midcentury Modernism, the Cold War, and the Neoliberal Present" (MIT Press, 2020)

May 16th, 2023 1h 11m

In her groundbreaking and timely book Think Tank Aesthetics: Midcentury Modernism, the Cold War, and the Neoliberal Present (MIT Press, 2020), distinguished art historian Pamela M. Lee poses fundamental questions about how the rise of the “thin

Control Through Communication: The Rise of System in American Management

Apr 3rd, 2023 1h 38m

JoAnne Yates, Sloan Distinguished Professor of Management, Emerita and Professor of Managerial Communication and Work and Organization Studies at MIT’s Sloan School of Management, talks about her classic and award-winning 1989 book, Control Thr

David LePoire, "Time Patterns in Big History: Cycles, Fractals, Waves, Transitions, and Singularities" (2020)

Mar 22nd, 2023 1h 10m

There is the common saying, “history doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes.” Are there any discernible patterns in history, and if so, what are these patterns? These are the questions addressed in Dave LePoire’s Time Patterns in Big Histor

What Algorithms Want: Imagination in the Age of Computing

Mar 2nd, 2023 23m 15s

In this episode Chris Gondek interviews Ed Finn, author of the new book What Algorithms Want. Tune in for an interesting discussion on algorithm disconnect revolving around things humans regularly use, like Siri. And listen in for a definition

Bernard D. Geoghegan, "Code: From Information Theory to French Theory" (Duke UP, 2023)

Feb 25th, 2023 53m 29s

Bernard Dionysius Geoghegan traces the shared intellectual and political history of computer scientists, cyberneticists, anthropologists, linguists, and theorists across the humanities as they developed a communication and computational-based t

Peter Jones and Kristel van Ael, "Design Journeys Through Complex Systems" (Bis Publishers, 2022)

Jan 29th, 2023 1h 2m

As I slowly settle into 2023 — reflecting on the blur that was 2022 — I can’t help but think about the complex problems (aka big messes!) we face at every turn: from increasingly devastating manifestations of the climate emergency, to the ubiqu

Technocracy Now! Part 2: Exploring Technocracy through Cybernetics

Oct 10th, 2022 1h 8m

On part #2 of Technocracy Now, we tell stories of cybernetic technocracies.First, we hear the story of Charles A. McClelland, a liberal political scientists who proposed a cybernetic computer system that claimed to predict conflicts before the

Xiao Liu, "Information Fantasies: Precarious Mediation in Postsocialist China" (U Minnesota Press, 2019)

Sep 23rd, 2022 1h 6m

International and transnational historiography has given us vivid glimpses of the development and impact of cybernetics on a national scale in such countries as the Soviet Union, Chile and, of course, in the US and Great Britain where the field

Frank Uit de Weerd and Marita Fridjhon, "Systems Inspired Leadership" (CRR Global, 2021)

Sep 12th, 2022 55m 2s

Listeners who have tuned in to my most recent episodes here on Systems and Cybernetics will be familiar with what seems be a current running theme. So, as I grapple with what it takes to bring systems thinking to life, I couldn't help but be in

David Ehrlichman, "Impact Networks: Creating Connection, Sparking Collaboration, and Catalyzing Systemic Change" (Berrett-Koehler, 2021)

Aug 17th, 2022 56m 14s

I recently caught up with the very busy David Erlichman, co-founder and coordinator of the Converge network (www.converge.net), about his fantastic book Impact Networks: Creating Connection, Sparking Collaboration, and Catalyzing Systemic Chang

Carol Sanford, "Indirect Work: A Regenerative Change Theory for Businesses, Communities, Institutions and Humans" (Interoctave, 2022)

Jul 25th, 2022 1h

I recently got a chance to talk to Carol Sanford about her newest book Indirect Work: A Regenerative Change Theory for Businesses, Communities, Institutions and Humans. Carol Sanford is a consistently recognized disruptor and contrarian working

Mark Andrejevic, "Automated Media" (Routledge, 2019)

Jun 24th, 2022 1h 49m

In this era of pervasive automation, Mark Andrejevic provides an original framework for tracing the logical trajectory of automated media and their social, political, and cultural consequences.Automated Media (Routledge, 2019) explores the cas

Adam Day, "States of Disorder, Ecosystems of Governance: Complexity Theory Applied to UN Statebuilding in the DRC and South Sudan" (Oxford UP, 2022)

May 25th, 2022 1h

Today's vision of world order is founded upon the concept of strong, well-functioning states, in contrast to the destabilizing potential of failed or fragile states. This worldview has dominated international interventions over the past 30 year

Jessica M. Wilson, "Metaphysical Emergence" (Oxford UP, 2021)

May 20th, 2022 1h 8m

Is a tree nothing but its material makeup, or does reality include trees above and beyond what they are made of? How about consciousness – nothing but neural activity, or something over and above it? Metaphysical emergence is a leading nonreduc

Shannon M. Mussett, "Entropic Philosophy: Chaos, Breakdown, and Creation" (Rowman & Littlefield, 2022)

May 13th, 2022 56m 50s

Everything is breaking down. Chaos is increasing. Entropy is not just a metaphor, although it also that. In Entropic Philosophy: Chaos, Breakdown, and Creation (Rowman and Littlefield, 2022), Shannon M. Mussett argues that while denial and nihi

Mark Neocleous, "The Politics of Immunity: Security and the Policing of Bodies" (Verso, 2022)

May 12th, 2022 50m 32s

Our contemporary political condition is obsessed with immunity. The immunity of bodies and the body politic; personal immunity and herd immunity; how to immunize the social system against breakdown. The obsession intensifies with every new cris

Lene Andersen, "Metamodernity: Meaning and Hope in a Complex World" (Nordic Bildung, 2019)

Apr 1st, 2022 59m 44s

So what is metamodernity you may ask, and what does it have to do with systems thinking and cybernetics? Well, I recently had a chance to find out for myself during my conversation with Lene Rachel Andersen about her book Metamodernity: Meaning

Florian Jaton, "The Constitution of Algorithms: Ground-Truthing, Programming, Formulating" (MIT Press, 2021)

Mar 16th, 2022 50m 36s

The Constitution of Algorithms: Ground-Truthing, Programming, Formulating (MIT Press, 2021) is a laboratory study that investigates how algorithms come into existence. Algorithms--often associated with the terms big data, machine learning, or a

Sean Kelly, "Becoming Gaia: On the Threshold of Planetary Initiation" (Integral Imprint, 2020)

Feb 28th, 2022 1h 1m

In this episode I had the pleasure of speaking with Sean Kelly, professor of Philosophy, Cosmology, and Consciousness at the California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS), about his 2021 book Becoming Gaia: On the Threshold of Planetary Initi