Winners Take All author Anand Giridharadas talks with Recode’s Kara Swisher in this live conversation recorded at Made By We in New York City. In this episode: Why Giridharadas wrote the book; the Sackler family; why “giving back is a wingman of taking ruthlessly”; Mark Zuckerberg’s false image and outsized influence; Andrew Carnegie and the history of billionaire philanthropy; what should the ultra-rich do instead?; what should the government do?; the backlash to Jeff Bezos; Marc Benioff and San Francisco; the 2020 Democrats and "the primary about everything”; Bill McGlashan and the college admissions scandal; the “rise of the rest”; what about Constitutional amendments?; and why Giridharadas is grateful for Donald Trump. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices