Jayson:

Michael, welcome to this episode of the Ankylosing Spondylitis podcast. And based upon the introduction and what we're going to cover today, I may have to change that name at some point down the road. Welcome to the show.

Michael

Thank you, Jayson. And thank you for having me. And yes, there's certainly time to change terminology around our disease.

Jayson:

Well, I was diagnosed 35 years ago, things tend to change slowly. So hopefully, I'll get around to figuring that out and what I want to do and how we structure it, but you know, you and I met through a forum on Facebook that deals with ankylosing spondylitis and the whole disease structure itself. You've made multiple posts that have been met differently with people's reactions on why the correct terminology might not be calling the disease itself ankylosing spondylitis, but maybe better off calling it Axial Spondyloarthritis. Tell me a little bit about that.

Michael:

Well, I can I understand why people are married to the next Ankylosing Spondylitis because like you that's what I was diagnosed with. And after my disease onset 40 years ago, but times change the technology changes, and also the name Ankylosing Spondylitis was never a universally used name, still isn't. In many parts of Europe, especially German speaking countries, the disease is referred to as Mobis Bechterew. In Russia, for example, it's named after Vladimir Bekhterev who was a Russian doctor who documented some of the symptoms of Ankylosing Spondylitis, but it's also been called Marie-Strumpell disease as well after two researchers who described the disease but what's more important, from our point of view is that Axial Spondyloarthritis is very difficult to diagnose. Originally, it was diagnosed by X ray radio graphically. So back in 1973, people recognized that there was a very common association with the gene HLA-B27 and spondyloarthritis. And looking into that further, they started seeing that people with Axial Spondyloarthritis or then called Ankylosing Spondylitis had this radiographic stage. And that was used as a diagnostic tool. There are no diagnostic criteria for this disease, but there are lots of different classifications. So, if you had radiographic sacral sacral le itis, and you displayed some other spondyloarthritis symptoms like family history or morning stiffness, etc. You were diagnosed with Ankylosing Spondylitis, then MRI came into being in the 1970s By the 1980s it was out there in the general hospital population and in general use and people who could read MRIs started noticing that if they were taking an MRI of the sacroiliac joint, they could see sacroillitis. But was this the same as the sacroillitis evident by X ray in Ankylosing Spondylitis? And there was a long debate about that. And that debate really wasn't resolved until the last year or two. So it's now understood that what we call Axial Spondyloarthritis is a continuum of disease from what had been called non-radiographic axial spondyloarthritis through to radiographic axial spondyloarthritis. So it's all recognized as one disease. And the important thing about that is that to exclude people, from patient organizations from help and support from the treatments available for Ankylosing Spondylitis, because they have non-radiographic axial spondylitis writers is extremely unfair. The disease burden is the same. Somebody with non-radiographic axial spa has exactly the same symptoms, the same pain, the same stiffness, the same mental issues as somebody who they ankylosing spondylitis. There's a further important part and that is that we know from a lot of evidence that the earlier the treatment, the better the outcome for the patient. So if you're waiting 6,7,8,9,10 years for diagnosis, and you don't get onto a treatment plan, until you're sort of seven or eight years into your disease progress. That's pretty serious, because by then you could have disfigurement, you could