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Heidi Heitkamp: Welcome to the Hot Dish. I'm Heidi Heitkamp. Joel Heitkamp: And I'm Joel Heitkamp, Heidi's younger brother. Heidi Heitkamp: Today we're going to be focusing on the experiences of rural and small town Americans related to agriculture and food security. I'll be speaking with Deputy Secretary of Agriculture Xochitl Torres Small, a wonderful woman. I've known her for years. And she's going to be talking about some of the challenges facing farmers and the work being done to address food insecurity in these areas. Then Joel and I will share some of our own stories and memories about growing up in a large family and the things our mom and dad did to make sure we had food on the table. First, we're going to hear from folks on the front line of the food insecurity dilemma, the food banks that work tirelessly to help ensure that families in rural America have enough to eat. Zach Rodvold: My name is Zach Rodvold. I'm the director of Public Affairs at Second Harvest Heartland. We are the third-largest food bank in the country. We serve 41 counties in Minnesota and 18 counties in Western Wisconsin, so we have more than 1500 food shelves and food distribution programs in our network. Last year we provided almost 128 million meals to our service area, and that equates to about 141 million pounds of food. 2023 in Minnesota was the worst year we've seen to date in terms of food insecurity. Seven and a half million food shelf visits last year. That's 2 million more than 2022, which was the previous record holder. And unfortunately, 2024 is looking even worse so far. Growth food insecurity is disproportionately worse than what you see in metropolitan areas. It is ironic that the place where the food is produced and grown and raised experiences higher rates of food insecurity themselves than their urban counterparts. There are a lot of reasons for that. Demographic changes, population changes of rural communities, towns shrinking, becoming older, rural economies struggling particularly when it comes to maintaining markets for food retailers, distances that you have to travel to get to your nearest grocery store or food shelf. Seniors experience hunger at higher rates than the general population. And so we talk a lot about the geographic divide. The solutions to cut hunger and reduce food insecurity in rural communities may have something in common with what we're looking at in urban or suburban communities, but they have to be tailored to the unique situation of rural America and rural Minnesota. One of the major barriers that people raise is transportation. And in the Twin Cities, transit access is a big part of that, but transit in rural Minnesota looks a lot different than it does in the Twin Cities, particularly if you're a homebound senior or maybe you can't afford gas and you're driving 20, 30 miles each direction to get food. Federal policy is the most important component of the Anti-Hunger Network through the Farm Bill, which is surprising to some people. But the single biggest component of the Farm Bill is the Nutrition Title, which includes funding for the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program or SNAP. There's also other federal nutrition programs in there that we participate in and food insecure Minnesotans take advantage of. TEFAP is one of those. The Emergency Food Assistance Program, also a great benefit to producers and growers who have their product purchased by the government and then those commodities are sent out to food banks to deliver to food shelves. The Commodity Supplemental Food Program, CSFP is kind of a senior nutrition program that delivers monthly boxes to seniors of staples just to supplement whatever they might be getting through other sources. And so all of that is included in the Nutrition Title in the Farm Bill. And to give a sense of the scale and scope of SNAP in particular, the most important and the most effective anti-hunger program we have in this country, for every meal that a food bank provides, SNAP provides nine. And so there is no way that we could make up the gap if Congress were to curtail benefits, reduce eligibility, separate it from the Farm Bill every five years. And people see the Nutrition Title being disproportionately funded compared to the farm programs, but there's a reason for that and that's that millions of Americans are food insecure. And the only way that we can ensure that they stay fed is through SNAP access. Most people use it intermittently in periods of need when they're between jobs or they're seniors on fixed income or disabled and unable to work. It is serving the very people that need the help the most. And the benefit of SNAP is that it's money in people's pocket to spend at retailers in their community, and those retailers are benefiting from that spending. 84% of the poorest counties in America are rural counties. And so every dollar that's spent on SNAP returns something like $1.50, $1.60 in economic benefit in local communities, which is huge when rural economies are struggling to maintain the grocery stores, the hospitals, other services that are needed to keep these communities whole and let people stay where they are. SNAP provides a great economic benefit not just to the people who need it to be able to eat, but to their local retailers too. A part of that is getting more food out into the system and figuring out how to be more efficient, more effective at delivering food to people who need it the most. But another part of that is public policy unrelated to food and going further upstream to make sure that people aren't hungry in the first place by making investments in healthcare and affordable housing and child care, all of which are big issues in rural communities. And so we need the two parties to be working together to address these issues. It should be bipartisan in nature, but unfortunately a lot of the times it is not. But the people who are losing out are those food insecure folks in rural communities. Heidi Heitkamp: I am so pleased to have with me today the Deputy Secretary of Agriculture, Xochitl Torres Small. [inaudible 00:06:15]. Xochitl Torres Small: You say it so well. Heidi Heitkamp: My 101 Spanish is coming through when my rolled Rs. But she and I got to be friends and know each other when she was a member of Congress from New Mexico and she was an outspoken advocate for rural America, for Tribal America. And I am so grateful that the administration appointed her to be deputy secretary after serving a small-time as the undersecretary for Rural Development. The one thing I know about the deputy secretary is that she's been all over the country. She has seen the good, the bad, and the ugly. And mainly I think what she wants to tell us is she's seeing a lot of really exciting things out there for agriculture in rural America. So I can't start this podcast though without talking about the Farm Bill and whether you think the Farm Bill is going to get across the finish line before we have to go to another extension or before this extension expires. Xochitl Torres Small: Senator, thank you so much for that kind introduction. There is no one who knows rural and cares about rural more than you, and it's just an honor to get to work with you and collaborate and keep learning from you frankly. As we look at this Farm Bill, my experience in Congress really informs that because I know that it's Congress that writes the Farm Bill. And over on the administration side, it's our job to enforce the laws that do get passed and also provide technical assistance in terms of what questions Congress might have as they write that Farm Bill. In the meantime, what we're working hard to do at USDA is make sure that we're implementing the laws that have already been passed, and one of the big ones there is the Inflation Reduction Act. So looking at those enormous investments in farmers, in farms, in conservation, in household programs like EQIP that every farmer, every farm can get access to. And so with the Inflation Reduction Act, that $19.5 billion is crucial in supporting all farmers as Congress figures out what to do with the Farm Bill and provides some certainty in terms of the availability of those funds. Heidi Heitkamp: Just for our listener's education, the IRA, the Inflation Reduction Act did a huge investment in rural America, whether it's looking at taking programs like EQIP that were overprescribed, which meant that there were more people who wanted in that conservation program than we had money for. But it also has developed some challenges for the Farm Bill because very many on the Republican side want to take the work that was done in the Inflation Reduction Act, reduce the amount of dollar commitment and roll it into the Farm Bill. And I think that's a major stumbling block as we look at getting the Farm Bill across the finish line. Xochitl Torres Small: We're absolutely in agreement that we need a good Farm Bill. And one of the reasons is because certainty is important. Farmers take risks every single day. They've got to know and be able to plan where they can. Well, there's no more clear certainty that's needed in terms of knowing that if a program says, "We've got this much available and people are applying for it," that they actually receive that benefit. And so if after the law is passed, Congress were to go back and raid that Inflation Reduction Act money, that would really undercut farmers who are relying on that program. It's a program folks love and enables practices like crop rotation and no-till, cover crops, really standard practices. Growing up in New Mexico, I know that farming is about the realities on the ground where you live. And practices are different depending on where you are, and that's why programs like EQIP and the Conservation Stewardship Program really make sure that the practices are tailored to that experience on the ground. Heidi Heitkamp: It's interesting because when you look at EQIP, which is a rotational grazing program, it allows the producer to actually have more animal units per acre because of the practice of water conservation, soil conservation and what it means for grazing. Very many of the people who were early adapters were very conservative families who had smaller farm units but wanted to keep the family together on the farm. And so it is interesting because EQIP has many, many supporters from the entire kind of political spectrum. I want to turn to nutrition and I want to put nutrition in the bucket with healthcare because we know that nutrition is such a key component of keeping our families healthy, making sure our children have a good head start. How do you see the Farm Bill addressing some of these healthcare concerns or how do you see the administration beginning to address the challenges that we have in rural healthcare? Xochitl Torres Small: I so appreciate you connecting nutrition to health because it really is a whole picture. My dad was a school bus driver. Heidi Heitkamp: Mine Was too. Xochitl Torres Small: Oh, no way. I love that. And as a school bus driver, you get to see kids in some of their hardest times when they don't want to go to school or they've just had a really tough day. My dad could always tell if a kid was acting out. And usually it wasn't a bad kid, it was something was going on at home or maybe they're hungry. Maybe they don't have the nutrition that they need, and so they're acting out. And so being able to make sure that kids have the nutrition that they need is crucial. That's why USDA is fundamental when it comes to school meals and making sure those meals are healthy and going to support a healthy kid and their learning. But then you think about summer and what happens in summer when kids don't have those school meals to rely on. And this year President Biden has done something that folks have been saying need to happen for a long time, and it's the Summer Electronic Benefit Transfer Program. So basically, this is recognizing that especially if you're in a rural town, getting to a congregate feeding site where they're handing out school meals over the summer can be really hard. Also, if you've got two jobs, the parent, getting there in the middle of the day is impossible. And so what this Summer Electronic Benefit Transfer Program does is provides $40 a month per kid over the summer to make sure that they can have access to good food. Heidi Heitkamp: So how does that work? How does this $40 work? Xochitl Torres Small: It's a lot like SNAP. It's an electronic benefit. So this way you don't have to go and pick up specific food at a delivery site, but rather you can, on your trip into town, also pick up that lunch so that it's available for kids while they're around over the summer. We estimate that it'll, this summer, help 21 million kids all across the country. Heidi Heitkamp: Wow. Xochitl Torres Small: And that's even with... So there are 13 states that are not participating this year. It's interesting. Arizona and New Mexico are participating, but Texas sure isn't. So how do we make sure that in the future, these states are choosing to participate? Because it's about money in people's pockets. It helps kids, but it also helps local grocery stores and it helps farmers. So this is connecting all of us. Heidi Heitkamp: I mean, I feel bad. If you think about New Mexico, just across the border in some of those places is going to be the exact same situation in Texas, but yet those children aren't going to get fed. Xochitl Torres Small: It's really unfortunate. Heidi Heitkamp: I want to turn to a particular emphasis of the secretary, and I know you share this concern. I think the Farm Bills work pretty well for very large operators, but I know that the administration and particularly Secretary Vilsack have been very concerned about consolidation of farming into larger and larger units and how a policy could maybe stem the tide. Could you talk a little bit about USDA's emphasis on keeping opportunities available for some of our smaller farm units? Xochitl Torres Small: Secretary Vilsack spends a lot of time talking about the number 525,000, the number of farms that have been lost since 1981 since the policy really hit home where farmers were asked to grow fence row to fence row to produce as efficiently as possible. And because farmers are hardworking, resilient people, they answered that call, they found ways to be more efficient. But as we all know, that often bigger and bigger farms, and it meant that a lot of people weren't able to keep their smaller midsize farms. And so Secretary Vilsack is looking at ways to invest in other ways for small and midsize farmers to add value to their crops or retain more of the fair share of the food dollar because they're cutting the cost of inputs. So a few examples. If you raise pigs or cattle, being able to have local meat processing can provide added value because you get the credit for who you are and a lot of consumers will look for that locally raised beef. And also can cut the cost because if you have one of the big eight or one of the big four for cattle controlling the hook space, that can mean a lot of additional costs. They get to set that price. So supporting competition here has been a main focus for President Biden to make sure that small farmers get their fair share. Another thing is added value, and that can look like everything from creating a specialty cheese for a dairy to climate smart commodities and being able to market the work that you're doing, the conservation work that farmers have been doing for generations, but showing it a way that the consumer wants to be part of that investment. All of these are ways to not just support small and midsize farmers, but then also invest in rural communities because the more farms you have, the more workers you have on those farms, the more income that's available to a community. Heidi Heitkamp: And the more they're going to buy local. And I just really appreciate the secretary's emphasis on trying to figure out how can we, from a policy standpoint, encourage those small stakeholder farmers, but it comes down to can you put food on your table if you're a producer or is this just become a hobby and you got three jobs off the farm to support your farming hobby? Xochitl Torres Small: I love that you talk about that local market because that's a crucial part of getting a fairer share of your food dollar. One of the things that's been funded through the Biden administration is being able to support schools that buy from local producers. I was just recently at a school and they were doing local procurement. And so I was at this breakfast and the farmer who grew the produce was there. He was the biggest celebrity in the room. All the kids wanted him to come and sit down with them and they had all the questions about his apples. Just that connection to a local farmer in your community, sometimes I think we've lost that. And to be able to reinvest in that, it gives me goosebumps. Heidi Heitkamp: I just think that there's got to be a place for farmers of all sizes and interests. We've become so focused on making sure that we have the right economies for corn growers, for soybean growers, but yet North Dakota, I mean we're number one in edible beans. We are number one in sunflowers. I mean, we've got a whole opportunity to see different kinds of crops that are now we emerging as plant-based protein crops that really could drive a future market for smaller producers who are willing to maybe grow a little barley and maybe grow some black beans and Pintos and Navies and, you know. Xochitl Torres Small: Well, and I love how you say "not just, but also." The secretary has been really clear, this isn't an either/or. It's that we can do both and we do need that efficiency. We also need that resiliency, and that's what the local and regional markets can provide. Heidi Heitkamp: I want to just for a minute ask you to take off your deputy secretary hat and put on your rural development hat because I think that people don't really understand the key and critical role that USDA plays in making sure that our hospitals in rural America stay open, make sure there's housing, make sure that we have adequate infrastructure for schools. Xochitl Torres Small: One of the fun things that rural development does is the Rural Energy for America program where it funds small businesses all across rural America if they want to make their grocery store lighting more energy efficient, for example, or they want to drive down their energy costs by adding solar, ways that will keep them in production by cutting some of those input costs. Heidi Heitkamp: Let's talk about for a minute, and I want to go back to tribal housing because it was an issue that just is heartbreaking, but I want to talk about the status of rural housing writ large before we talk about the challenges of housing on the reservations. Xochitl Torres Small: This is a real challenge. You go back to COVID and think about people who are starting to look at maybe even moving to a more rural place. And one of the challenges, I got numerous calls of county administrators saying, "We'd love to be able to get some folks moving here, but we don't have the housing stock for it." And then it's also just about the quality of the houses that are there. I was in Mississippi and I met a woman who was from a rural community. She'd left and she chose to come back. She couldn't find a house that was in a good condition. She ended up spending a year living in a house that had a 2-foot hole in the wall. And so this is what we talk about the cost of building in a city. Well, the cost of building in rural places can be just as high because you've got to transport all of the materials to this rural place. You've got to find the workforce to do it. And you've also got to make sure that you've got the land availability for it. And there's no economies of scale. You're not building a whole bunch of houses at once, so that's harder too. So it's a real challenge and it's different in each rural community. And rural development has some great programs that can help. Heidi Heitkamp: Yeah. You have more infrastructure costs, and rural America costs more because you don't have the economies of scale. And then if you're going to a bank, the bank's going to say, "Yeah, it costs you $200,000 to build, but you could only sell it for 100,000." And that's a challenge that I don't think people understand. Xochitl Torres Small: You mentioned the specific challenge in tribal communities. I was talking to a woman who works to provide direct loans to tribal people from rural development, and she said one of her biggest challenges is also about land ownership because that can be really, really challenging. Heidi Heitkamp: Right. Just for people's understanding, that the tribe basically owns the land. And so you have the ability to put a house up, but when you look at land ownership, that may not go with the house. Xochitl Torres Small: That's exactly it. One thing that's been exciting is there's this pilot program that provides the funds for the direct loan to local nonprofits that can then help sort out those land issues and document them so that they can qualify for the loan. Heidi Heitkamp: So we're up against the clock. I could talk to you forever. I look forward to continuing the dialogue. I look forward to hearing more about the secretary and your plans for smaller farmers. It's an emphasis we haven't had in a long time at USDA. I think it's an exciting time. You guys are always innovating there. And we didn't even get a chance to talk about the climate smart agriculture funding. Xochitl Torres Small: There is so much to talk about and you're just always such a joy to talk with. Heidi, thank you so much. Heidi Heitkamp: Thank you. And we look forward to continuing to talk. And thank you so much for joining us on the Hot Dish. We grew up in a very lower income. Mom was a school cook and dad, basically a seasonal construction worker. And I always told stories when I was in Washington about what that was like to live on unemployment for those months. Remember that Joel? Joel Heitkamp: Yeah, I do. Heidi Heitkamp: Because you can't work seasonal construction work in North Dakota when the snow's flying. And so I always said we prayed for a late fall and early spring because there was only three months. And during those three months, I remember running up a grocery bill and just feeling the tension that mom and dad had about just even paying for groceries during that time period. Joel Heitkamp: Well, and what I remember also is how other folks and other families had to deal with food insecurity too. Mom was a school cook. And in those days, if you didn't have the money for hot lunch, you didn't get hot lunch. And of course mom as school cook cheated on that as much as she possibly could to help other kids and other families. That was just part of day-to-day life. When you're raising seven kids that were born in nine years, so they're all living in the house at the same time together and you don't have the two incomes coming in, you only have one, it gets tough. Heidi Heitkamp: I remember that our favorite meal besides the roast beef dinner that we had once a week with mashed potatoes on Sunday was when mom would fry chicken. Well, those chickens came right from the farm. And one of mom's side occupations was she was actually a butcher, which is really, really tough work. But she knew how to not only kill a chicken, but she knew how to cook one. And then we would all line up and fight over who got the drumstick. You get one piece of chicken. Joel Heitkamp: And I would also add that because she was the butcher, and in those days you had a locker plant right in town, everybody brought their beef into and their hog into to get processed, well, if there was a liver, if there was a tongue, if there was something that the farmer was going to throw away, the Heitkamp family took it. And I think at both of our ages now, you'd have a tough time convincing me to eat liver. I ate enough of it in my life. Heidi Heitkamp: I mean, so it's a little eating a piece of shoe leather that had been breaded. So maybe that was the part that we liked the best. But I mean, it does go back to the times that we grew up. You figured out what you could grow in the garden, what your grandparents could raise in terms of potatoes and kind of you just may do. Who really thinks we should go back to that time when the school cook had to cheat to give someone a meal? And you and I have watched states like North Dakota who will give millions of dollars to an economic development project that we all think will never be successful, but can't figure out how they can basically provide free hot lunch. Joel Heitkamp: Well, and in North Dakota right now, the state that I live in, we've got $10 billion in reserves in the Bank of North Dakota that is just sitting there in a fund that could be used in so many ways. We have 10 billion in reserves and 700,000 people, and we have kids in school going without hot lunch until we push that agenda, both you and I and others. Every kid should have their lunch paid for, and yet it's still the haves and have-nots. Heidi Heitkamp: I just think it's so interesting when I think, Joel, the point that you have made so eloquently is, look, they have to go to school. They have to be sitting in that desk. How is that different than buying them books? Joel Heitkamp: Yeah. If you talk to any farm worker that would hire the same thing Heidi's talking about, which is seasonal workers, and they're out in the field, not to sound sexist here, but usually the wife would bring out a lunch. When I say lunch, I'm not talking about noon. I'm talking about a sandwich or something at about 10:00 because they're working hard and then they'd bring out dinner, is what we called it. And then if they kept working, they'd bring out supper, which is what we called it. So yeah, I mean it was just common that if somebody was working or in a position, you took care of them. You fed them. Well, why not schools? Heidi Heitkamp: When I would talk about this when I was in the Senate, people would say, "Oh, that doesn't happen. People don't go hungry in this country." And I would say, "Really? You think that's true? You think that hot lunch during summer isn't critical?" Debbie Stabenow has been such a champion of providing summer meals, going to the parks and passing out in lower income neighborhoods because many times that's the only hot meal kids get. But the bottom line is there's a lot of food insecurity in this country. We have programs that are supposed to take care of it. And in spite of providing billions of dollars in assistance for farmers, there is always a fight over food stamps in the Farm Bill, right? You're so afraid somebody might get... And the only thing you could do with SNAP benefits is actually buy food. So it's not like you're handing out- Joel Heitkamp: Cigarettes. Heidi Heitkamp: Yeah. That is so rare. In fact, if you look at fraud waste and abuse, the SNAP program has some of the lowest amount of fraud waste and abuse in any kind of program of its type in Washington. Joel Heitkamp: Well, and I would argue a lot of farmers are buying lake homes or some anyway off the money they're making through the Farm Bill. So let's put that in perspective. I get calls into my radio show all the time from people who are complaining about SNAP, complaining about people actually getting fed. And I try to remind them of a couple things. Number one, it is a food program. We raise food. That's what we do here in the middle of this country. And so anytime we have people eating food, it's a good day. The other thing I point out, because they always say they want that separation, as you said, between SNAP and the Farm Bill, that if you look at the number of members of Congress, it's urban. Of the 430 members of Congress, it's urban. And so if you want to separate SNAP and you want to separate it from the Farm Bill itself, then get ready to not have federal crop insurance. Heidi Heitkamp: Well, the one thing that it's a story that I tell. I was out trying to do a series of events around SNAP benefits. And I was in a rural community and I was talking about the SNAP benefit and what that means. It was a community forum and so all of these people stood up and started talking about people living on the dole and blah, blah, blah. And I said, "Look, it's temporary for a lot of families. People get a tough patch. It is just food assistance." And so I spent some time trying to defend the program. After it was over, Joel, I had a pastor in that community come up to me and he said, "My wife and I, we took this job in this community to minister to this community. And what I'm telling you is we can't get by if it weren't for food assistance, if it weren't for SNAP." He said, "I didn't want to say that because it would get a reaction here in town, but this benefit allows me to engage in my ministry." Many, many people who receive these benefits are in fact working. Joel Heitkamp: Well, and elderly. Heidi Heitkamp: Or veterans. Joel Heitkamp: Yeah. Heidi Heitkamp: Disabled. Joel Heitkamp: I mean, I remember, Heidi, Lorraine Jentz. Okay, there's a name we both know Lorraine Jentz from this town of a hundred that we grew up in would get government cheese. It was her job to distribute that government cheese to elderly people that didn't have money, right? There's a lot of pride factor there. And dad would look at me and say, "You're going to take that cheese around town." And if they knew it was coming from Ray and Doreen High Camp, then it was, "Oh, okay, Ray and Doreen. Yep, yep, yep," that type of thing. And you'd point out that it's the government that actually was providing it, but mom and dad saying, "Take it." And that ended the whole pride thing. But if Lorraine hadn't organized it, it probably wouldn't have happened. It's a community in rural areas. Heidi Heitkamp: Yeah, it's really tough because what they see, they don't see the millions of dollars that are going to the power plant, the federal dollars. They don't see that, but they see it in the grocery store. And that changes kind of their attitude. And hopefully, as we present more and more discussions about food insecurity and the work that we're doing here to talk about how this disproportionately affects rural and elderly communities, that we can build more political support and understanding of the importance of these benefits. Joel Heitkamp: Well, and the other thing, and this is a big difference in generations, we don't want to admit this, but we're a spoiled country when it comes to how much we can afford for groceries versus the old days. You grew it. I mean, everybody had a garden, you grew it. And if you had a bad year with the garden, you had less food that was canned in the basement. So we grew up with that. You pick pickles at grandpa and grandma's. You pick sweet corn. I picked sweet corn. Thank God they were done raising pickles by the time I got to that age. But that was a big part of their income. And now we just expect to go to the store and buy a jar of pickles. Heidi Heitkamp: Oh, Joel, you don't go to any store to buy sweet corn. You go to the neighbor's and steal it. Just admit that. Joel Heitkamp: I'm a firm believer that the only good sweet corn is stolen sweet corn. So I just explained to him that they got a lot of raccoons in that sweet corn patch. Heidi Heitkamp: JJ would say there's been a big redheaded rat in his [inaudible 00:32:55]. Joel Heitkamp: JJ is starting to get cases of beer for that, so knock it off. Stealing is one of those thou shall nots. So yeah, no, I borrow is what I do. I borrow. Heidi Heitkamp: Yeah. Anyway, this isn't the last we're going to talk about this. And as they work through it, we see some major stumbling blocks right now in getting a Farm Bill across the finish line. They have an extension of the old one. The old Farm Bill was fairly successful, but there are some changes that need to be made. I don't think they're going to get this done before the election, but the whole issue of food insecurity should be a major part of the discussion as we debate the Farm Bill. So more on that later. Thanks, Joel. Joel Heitkamp: You bet. Thanks, Hyde. Heidi Heitkamp: And next time I'm home, I'll cook you up some liver. Joel Heitkamp: Good luck with that. I'll bring my deer sausage and maybe some canned sweet corn. Heidi Heitkamp: I think this has been a really fascinating and important episode, and I hope you do too. Let us know what you think and ask us questions or give us again your suggestions. Email us at [email protected]. Joel Heitkamp: Thank you for joining us today on the Hot Dish, which is brought to you by the One Country Project, making sure the voices of the rest of us are heard in Washington. Learn more at onecountryproject.org. Heidi Heitkamp: We'll be back in two weeks with more Hot Dish, comfort food for Middle America. Speaker 5: [inaudible 00:34:47].