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The Modern Hotelier #50: Diversity, Regenerative Tourism, & Global Hospitality | with Aradhana Khowala === Aradhana Khowala [00:00:00]: Sometimes good intentions are not good enough, guys. We need a lot more. We need accountability. We need to measure to manage. We need to toe the line and hold people responsible. Because if you're really focused on creating change, it doesn't happen by default. Change happens by design. David Millili [00:00:20]: Welcome to the 2nd season of The Modern Hotelier, the fastest growing hospitality cast. Both hosts were named top 100 most powerful people in hospitality and voted 4th most popular podcast by the International Hospitality Each episode, we'll get to know an industry expert, and we'll discuss the latest trends in hospitality to help you, The Modern Hotelier. Welcome to the Modern Hotelier. I'm your host, David Malueg. Steve Carran [00:00:46]: I'm your cohost, Steve Kerrin. Jon Bumhoffer [00:00:48]: And I'm the producer, John Boomhofer. Dean [00:00:51]: As the modern hotelier celebrates its 50th episode, we would like to thank our team, guests, supporters, and sponsors. If you are interested in being or suggesting a guest or sponsoring an episode, message us on LinkedIn or email us at hello at the modern hotelier.com. If you are not already, make sure you follow us on LinkedIn and subscribe on YouTube and wherever you get your favorite podcasts. David Millili [00:01:15]: Steve, who do we have on the program today? Steve Carran [00:01:18]: Yeah, David. Today, our guest needs no introduction, but I'll do my best. It is Aradhana Koala. She is a global expert on the travel, tourism, and hospitality industries. Her executive entrepreneurial and board career spans over 2 decades, 5 continents, and over 75 countries. She's currently the CEO of Apptimine Partners, a private client advisory that advises governments and businesses on using tourism as a force for good. She's also the chair of the Red Sea Advisory Board in Saudi Arabia and also at Elaf Group. She was also named one of the most 100 power most powerful people in global hospitality. Steve Carran [00:02:04]: Welcome to the show. Aradhana Khowala [00:02:05]: Thank you, Steve. I barely recognize them myself. I sound very old, but thank you for having me. Pleasure being here. David Millili [00:02:12]: It's great to have you. So we're gonna go through a couple sections. We're gonna ask you some quick questions, get into your your personal background a little bit, Talk about your career and then talk about industry and kinda just life thoughts in general. Sound good? Aradhana Khowala [00:02:26]: Sounds great. I was, you know, I was going to say, Ready? I was born ready. Let's, let's hit it. I don't know if you've seen the movie Ford versus Ferrari. That's what mister Ford says just before going on a test drive with Shelby. But I know how it ends in the movie, so I'm going to refrain from saying I was born ready. David Millili [00:02:44]: Alright. So, basically, everybody put your seatbelts on. Here we go. What was the what was the worst job you've ever had? Aradhana Khowala [00:02:51]: Oh, so I did, hotel brokerage for some time, a bit of time. But no job is bad. Let me qualify that. But, god, I was awful at it. So as you know, brokerage is where you're selling hotels. So It's real estate brokerage. And I remember this instance where my client said, Radna, why don't you pitch this opportunity to us? I mean, why didn't you bring it to us? And I said, oh my god. Have you looked at the numbers? I won't touch it with the barge pole, so then why would I bring it on to you? And my MD, my managing director who was in the meeting, he He he looked at me as if I just been let off a mental asylum. Aradhana Khowala [00:03:28]: And then even we finished the meeting, he pulled me aside and he said, You know that we are in the business of brokerage. We sell hotels. We are in the business of what is called trafficking real estate. I think language is important. I think it's a complete choice. You know? Traffic I wouldn't be caught dead trafficking anything. But listen, it was a great learning for me that, I'd rather be doing something where I can actually earn a living by saying the truth. David Millili [00:03:55]: Got it. So are you a morning or a night person? Aradhana Khowala [00:03:58]: Very early morning person, I'm up at 5:30, and I, I'm terribly boring. I go to bed at 9:30, so definitely morning. David Millili [00:04:05]: Alright. So You have to delete all the apps from your phone except for 3. What 3 apps are you keeping on your phone? Aradhana Khowala [00:04:13]: Oh, I'll Steve Carran [00:04:14]: keep my Aradhana Khowala [00:04:14]: banking apps. It's all about the money, honey, as they say. I'll keep, WhatsApp. It's funny, but I do contracts, business contracts on WhatsApp. Probably not the safest thing having just said that, but but it's how business is done. And I will, Keep Uber. David Millili [00:04:32]: Got it. So what's the what what emoji do you use the most? Aradhana Khowala [00:04:35]: Oh, I was going to say I'm a hugger and a kisser, but, god, that sounds inappropriate. But I'll tell you, I was going to buy I was saying that, I would say I like laughing, so long, laugh out loud. But, you know, it's funny. Yeah. I mean, talking about the kissing bit, Depending on where you live, the customs and the traditions vary so much. Right? So in the UK, it's 2 kisses. In Switzerland, it's 3. In Middle East, it's 3 and it's depending on which part of France, it's 2, 3, or 4. Aradhana Khowala [00:05:07]: So I worked for a bit in Paris. It would take me 45 minutes to get from the entrance to my seat because you're kissing everyone on the way in. And sometimes I find myself in a situation where I've just come back from somewhere, And I've had I've done 2 kisses, and I'm going for the 3rd one. And people look at me funny, oh god. She's keen. No. I'm not. I'm just confused because it was 3 in the place I was before. Aradhana Khowala [00:05:28]: So, it's a fun anecdote. David Millili [00:05:30]: And the sad part is for most Americans, it's like, why are you kissing me? So Yeah. What do you have a favorite song? Aradhana Khowala [00:05:39]: Oh, song. Depends on my mood, but I'm Obsess currently with this one, which is called begging you. Put your loving hand out, darling. More on And, I mean, my kids wouldn't agree. They call me a boomer, and they can't stop making fun of my awful taste in music as they say. That's a David Millili [00:05:58]: good song. Do you have a favorite restaurant? Aradhana Khowala [00:06:01]: Depends on the cuisine again. I I love I'm a foodie, so I go everywhere for food. Ladbury, Scots, if I fancy fish, Hutong, if I, I'm into Chinese, and Dishoom, it's one of those Indian restaurants and they've been consistently good for 16 years, and that's a hard ask. David Millili [00:06:18]: So you have your own talk show. It can be a person who's deceased or alive. Who's your 1st guest on your talk show? Aradhana Khowala [00:06:26]: Right? So it can be okay dead. I'll choose someone dead. David Millili [00:06:29]: Everyone always asks me, so I figured I'd just give it up to you then. Aradhana Khowala [00:06:32]: No. Good. Because, you know, might as well. I think I'll end up I Can't technically meet whoever want to if they're alive, if I so desire, so forget about the living. I would probably go with Mahatma Gandhi. And I'll tell you why. Up until that time in history, the world believed you needed to pursue violence to have some kind of profound change. He was the 1st person who actually Resulted in transformation and profound change by practicing nonviolence and, causing activism at scale. Aradhana Khowala [00:07:14]: Obviously, it was then replicated by Nelson Mandela in South Africa, Martin Luther King in states, and Aung San Suu Kyi in Burma, or even Greta Thunberg to an extent what she's doing. I'm not talking about the extension rebellion where they are, gluing themselves to the road. Again, not the violent part, but the nonviolent part. So I I would love to have have the opportunity to ask him, you know, how how did he choose that or how did he come up with that. David Millili [00:07:36]: So now last 1 for this part, you have a time machine, And you can go into the future or into the past. Which way are you going and what year are you going to? Aradhana Khowala [00:07:48]: Oh, now this is controversial. I wouldn't go anywhere in the past. Everything happens for a reason. And I think we have to be very careful of touching or changing anything in the past. And I know we've had A lot of terrible things in the past. But having said that, again, don't change anything because it's like the movie, you know, all things everywhere. If you change one thing, a lot of other interrelated or unrelated things change, so you have to be cautious of what you change. So definitely the future. Aradhana Khowala [00:08:14]: What year? 2050. The whole world is going mental talking about, you know, the 2050 carbon targets. Right? So how about we go to 2050 and we see, have we actually done something about it, or have we been bluffing our way through the whole thing? And if we have, then I will come back and be the biggest activist and voice talking about it. And if we haven't, I will still do that because then we need change anymore. Don't we? David Millili [00:08:51]: Good answer. Awesome. Steve Carran [00:08:52]: So now we're gonna get more into your back Story kinda where you come from, what makes you tick. So so where did you grow up? Aradhana Khowala [00:08:59]: Delhi. Steve Carran [00:09:00]: You grew up in Delhi. Okay. Aradhana Khowala [00:09:01]: Delhi, which is, the capital. It's funny because I was just in Delhi in August for the g twenty meetings, and I didn't I didn't recognize the Delhi I grew up in because it's become properly diverse and Multicultural, and you hear different languages on the on the streets, and it wasn't case, you know, 40 odd years ago. And, I grew up in Delhi, and I keep saying one of the early leadership childhood lessons is my parents. So India is a very large country and it's properly done worse. And people don't get this when I say my parents had migrated to Delhi for work, but we we at that time, 40 odd years ago, I could see that we didn't look like everyone else and my parents spoke with an accent. So it's Pretty much like being an immigrant in your own country. It's the same thing if I was moving from Europe to States. And that is fascinating learning because, 2 things. Aradhana Khowala [00:09:52]: 1, you get comfortable being different and that's okay. And the second thing is you learn very quickly that you have to adapt and fit in to, you know, whatever new surroundings that you find yourself in. I've lived in 5 continents, but that was a key learning because I'm instantly at home no matter which part of the world I'm at, so it's been a boon. Steve Carran [00:10:16]: I was gonna ask how it shaped you growing up in Delhi, but you already answered. So David, David Millili [00:10:20]: next time. So you you you got your bachelor's at IHM Mumbai in hotel management, Also, your MBA at EHL in in in Switzerland as international hospitality, how did you know early on that you wanted to be in this field in into hospitality? Everybody's kinda got that story where that that hook, what what drew them in. What drew you in the hospitality? Aradhana Khowala [00:10:42]: I didn't. I it was Purely human error as I like to call it. I was in medical school. And in India, growing up, if you're a good student, you either choose medicine or engineering. And if, you know, probably law is the only, third option and if you're scum of the earth, counting. I'm talking I'm going a long way back, guys. So, that was then the case. And I was a good student, so it was medicine. Aradhana Khowala [00:11:12]: But here is what happened. When I was at school, there was an alumni who came to speak about career choices, and this is when I was 15, And she looked gorgeous and the biggest catch for me was she had traveled to 40 countries. At 15, I had been to 2. And I've been an obsessive traveler all my life or at least wanted for me. That's when I decided, oh, that's the life that I wanted for myself. Obviously, didn't think it was important to tell my parents, so went through the medical school, Chirag, but, happy to be where I am now. David Millili [00:11:48]: So you then went to Cornell for hotel real estate investments. You also studied at INSEAD. I think that you said that right. Aradhana Khowala [00:11:56]: INSEAD. Yes. Much later, Paul Atelier de Luzhan, all of these were much much later. Masters, again, if you're Indian, you have a few master's degree. I don't have anyone in my family who doesn't have a PhD, so there you go. You just collect the things. David Millili [00:12:11]: Yeah. What led you to those 2 areas Outside of you know, to to continue on with the education in those 2 areas. Aradhana Khowala [00:12:16]: So when I was talking about my upbringing, global or or being international is not just a title for me. It's quite literally a way of life. It's a description of my both professional and personal life. Right? So I've had what is called a very zigzag career. Now it all sounds like it's broad hospitality, travel, tourism. It hasn't been the case. So As I said, I started with, medicine, ended up with hospitality operations at Kempinski, which was, many 30 years ago. And this is at a time 30 years ago when hospitality was not associated with Anything aspirational, especially for women. Aradhana Khowala [00:12:56]: Right? And then I left hospitality, joined, a strategy consulting practice And I had nothing again to do then for a few years with hospitality because I was looking at all kinds of other sectors like tech and, The card sector and automotives and FMCG. So I have, done quite a few, how do you say, avatars and stints before I jumped right back into Reality, after my MBA at Ecole Hotelier de Lausanne, I had a few years with JLL where I did hotel bro brokerage, as I said, Move to marketing. I left big brands, turned entrepreneur. It all sounds like it's all over the place, but frankly, it's not because Everything is linked, and I think the best kind of innovation happens when you pick up learnings from where you are and bring it to a completely different environment. So now I, spend my time advising destinations and lobby governments on how do you use tourism as a force for good. And I'm an expert or a social expert in all things sustainability, diversity, and inclusion. But, really, if I were to look at it by stepping back like I was seeing a painting, The dots are all joined and connected. Steve Carran [00:14:03]: Absolutely. So you have you've met with some of the brightest minds in the world. Who should our listeners Be following or who should our listeners, you know, be learning from if if you have any recommendations? Aradhana Khowala [00:14:17]: I am I'm a big fan of Piko Iyer and his writing in terms of, he's tangential. He talks about slow travel, and I think There is so much of learning for all of us because we're on this box ticking exercise trying to consume countries and destinations as if it's soda or, you know, bottle of water or whatever else. So I love how he thinks about slow travel. I have been spending a lot of time recently thinking about wellness. And Dan Duttner who obviously talks about the blue zones and, diet For a longevity perspective, I think fascinating, the amount of money that we have seen pumped into innovation in the longevity and wellness space that we have in the last year or so unprecedented. I'm also a big fan of, again, tangential thinkers like, What's his last name? Is it Matt Butler, the one who talks about sleep? And there is lots written about how sleep is important for people. I show it to my kids, my teenage son. He's done a fantastic TED talk because, you know, some people try to oversell the fact that, oh, I get by with 4 hours of sleep, but, really, I think you'd be that much more interesting if you had 6. Steve Carran [00:15:32]: Hey. I'm on that same kick. I'm currently reading Outlive by Peter Attia. So I'm on that same, health care kick too. So now let's get into your your career. So since 2008, you've bet you founded and you've been the CEO of Optima, Apptimind Partners. Can you tell a little bit more about, kind of the clients you're advising and and how you're using tourism for good? Aradhana Khowala [00:15:56]: Sure. So listen. I founded, Apptimind with the Aim of improving 3 pillars within the broader travel tourism industry, sustainability, community empowerment, and diversity and inclusion. Right? The idea was to create an industry wide change. And with that in mind, we work with governments, Destinations, public and private sector firms, a lot of international organizations. And our effort is really focused on implementing ESG strategies that are not only going to drive growth as we know it, which is economic growth, but also result in positive outcome for communities who are affected and who are reliant on tourism, what you call tourism as a force for good. The fact is over the last 20 years, Travel, tourism, and hospitality has been on a growth bench. It's been a hockey stick curve. Aradhana Khowala [00:16:50]: Right? And we have been extractive as an industry. By which, I mean, We have taken from the environment. We've taken from the local communities we operate in. We dump plastic in our oceans, and we don't really always give back to, the locals, which is where we are building our destinations. So I think now is the time where we realize what got us here It's not going to get us any further. And we need a real what I call an alt control, delete on the computer, a proper reset to really think about How can you actually move from passive role to an active role so you're actively decarbonizing the world? So you're really contributing to the communities that you work in. You're bridging the gap between the haves and have nots, and in effect, solving some of the biggest challenges facing humanity, be it poverty, education, skills, gender equality, the whole lot. David Millili [00:17:46]: Great. So you were a board member for the World Tourism Forum in Lucerne, and you were also director for of tourism for NEOM. I don't know if that's the way Great way to pronounce that, but what were those experiences like? And tell us a little bit more about those. Aradhana Khowala [00:17:58]: I was involved, for more than 11 years, I I think a good 11 years, started as an adviser, went on to become an advisory board member, a shareholder, then ultimately, a board member and shareholder. But it was fascinating because it's one of those organizations which moved from being an event organizer to an organization that's really curating and convening leaders for conversations that really make a difference. So it's it would be probably 30 of us who would lock ourselves for a couple of days really talking about the biggest challenges facing the industry, Fast forwarding 10 or 20 years and really brainstorming to see what we can do about it now so we can actively evade the situation. NEOM, again, was fascinating. This is a long time ago from 2018 till 2019. Very proud to have done the tourism strategy for what is perhaps The most disruptive, or what is set to become the most disruptive destination in the world. David Millili [00:19:00]: So you've been chair for a couple of groups, the Red Sea Global. What is Saudi Arabia going to look like in 15 years as far as tourism? What is your kind of, you know, your thoughts on that? Aradhana Khowala [00:19:11]: Look. I couldn't be more optimistic or bullish about the sweeping societal changes that we are Seeing happened before, not before our eyes in Saudi Arabia. Right? Now specific to Red Sea Global, again, Immensely proud of how they're pretty much ripping out the old rule books on how to develop destinations from scratch and doing it in a way which is completely unheard of. And this is what we call a transition from sustainability, which is not good enough, to regenerative tourism. Right? Look. It's a new destination. Right? They could have gone the usual route. Let it rip and let's maximize the profits. Aradhana Khowala [00:19:52]: But they have taken on the mantle of being guardians of the ecosystem whereby they're adding close to 30% to the biodiversity of the place just by developing it out. I mean, think about it for a minute. This is Saudi Arabia. It is the largest producer of crude in the world. Right? Energy is everywhere and it's so cheap. So then to make that decision to really go through the trouble of going completely off grid, setting up solar farms to ensure everything is renewable including operations. I'm talking transportation, guys. Mobility which is only fueled by renewable energy. Aradhana Khowala [00:20:34]: Right? It's absolutely crazy bold. It's ambitious. It's, I think, borderline audacious. The easy choice would have been to pretty much outsource their sense of responsibility. But that's really the real price and the joy in being regenerative because If you ask them why they're doing it, they'll probably say it's because they can and because someone ought to. The biggest challenge is getting people to understand that there is actually another way of doing things. I don't know. Was it Nelson Mandela who said, that It never seems possible until it's done. Steve Carran [00:21:10]: We can we can fact check it, but I believe so. Aradhana Khowala [00:21:12]: Exactly. Please do. David Millili [00:21:13]: Either way, it's a good quote. Steve Carran [00:21:16]: Well, I love that. That was really good. So now we get we usually go to industry thoughts, but you give so many talks on kind of almost life Things as well. So we're gonna do life thoughts for this section. So, you know, what advice do you have for people On how to handle their either work life balance or even, like, their life travel balance. Aradhana Khowala [00:21:37]: Look. I'm not I hate the word balance because you don't balance. I believe in work life integration. I'm someone who travels 200 days in a year. And as a working mother, especially when my kids were young, I was ridden with guilt. It's It's called guilt on steroids as a working mother. Right? But then, really, I have learned that I'm a better mother, better person, better everything if I'm working. So you just kind of have to find the right recipe that works for you and your family. Aradhana Khowala [00:22:08]: My kids have a a a very healthy disrespect for what I do, and I think that's how kids should grow up, you know, not idolizing what their parents do, but they realize what I do is extremely important for me. And I hate this idea or this quote of eat your cake and have it too. I mean, of course, I want to have my cake and eat. I just I know. I don't get it. I mean, you want to work and you want to have some kind of a a a an integration like I said, and you find ways to deal with it. I travel hell of a lot, but then I also travel with my kids a hell of a lot. My teenager has been to 75 different countries. Aradhana Khowala [00:22:43]: Younger one, less so because we had couple of years of COVID in between, but, you know, take the kids, and it's it's an eye opening experience for them. You learn so much by traveling. David Millili [00:22:52]: Yeah. That's the that's the best piece of advice, and that's the, being 1. I I can say it, you know, being, you know, from the states, That's the biggest, I think, issue that this country has is that people don't travel enough and don't understand what's outside of the The 50 states and therefore, I think it just it it creates a lot of weird dynamics in the US because they don't really understand the rest of the world because they don't Travel for the most part. So Aradhana Khowala [00:23:18]: It's a very big market with 300,000,000 population. You don't need another market. David Millili [00:23:22]: Right. Aradhana Khowala [00:23:22]: Not for what you sell, not for what you market. So I understand Standard. It's the biggest market in the world, guys. So but, yes, I think travel does open up your mind in a way which is, it's different. Right? Yeah. David Millili [00:23:35]: You know, I've had people in the US that, you know, they go they take 2 vacations a year. They go to the Caribbean for both. And I've said, well, you should really think about going to Europe or going to Asia or going somewhere. And they're like, no. No. No. I just wanna sit by the pool. So anyway, I'll I'll leave it at that. David Millili [00:23:48]: But so the UN established 17 sustainable development goals in 2015 To be accomplished by we have 2030, you said maybe 2050, but do you feel that It's going well and what can we do better to to make sure that we're gonna hit those goals? Aradhana Khowala [00:24:08]: Oh god, David. I'm you're going to get me into trouble here. Listen. No. It's not going well at all because we're at the halfway mark. It's 2023, and we have 17 years probably we have 7 years to go up until 2030 for the SDGs, And we have actually digressed on a lot of goals. So, no, we are not at the 50% mark. And here is my trouble, going back to 2050, which I was joking about, saying I want to go back to the future. Aradhana Khowala [00:24:30]: Look. I am all for targets, and I understand 2050 exists for the right reason. SDGs by 2030 exist for the right reason. But I think targets kind of it creates an artificial constraint in our head And then people start thinking, really? I mean, 2050 is such a long way away. I mean, I might as well spontaneously combust by then. You know, it's not my problem. Today. In London. Aradhana Khowala [00:24:58]: But, you know, it's not my problem because I I'm not going to be around that long. So in a Since deadlines are always not useful, and then you stop passing the buck because it's such a long time away That it it makes very little sense, and it's yeah. I think it curtails our ambition, quite frankly. Not the biggest fan, and that's controversial. David Millili [00:25:18]: And so this one would be I'm really interested to to your answer to this one. So I've been fortunate to start my own companies, run large companies. What do you think, I guess, in general, we have to do to make sure that there's more and not just gender diversity, but just diversity in in hotel companies. Aradhana Khowala [00:25:36]: Look. I genuinely believe that if you're promoting gender diversity and it's not just gender. Right? Because it's race, ethnicity, age, disability, all kinds of things. But, I think it's a very important way and a very effective way to trigger change. And it's also diversity of thought. You have to be called it's cognitive diversity. The the minute you have different kinds of mindsets in the room, that's when the best kind of magic or the most beautiful magic happens because it brings in new ideas from outside and it brings in fresh perspectives and create stimulation. And, you know, the management can be more agile and have breakthrough insights on how do you engage customers better, and a whole host of other evidence. Aradhana Khowala [00:26:18]: But really, quite frankly, we're sitting on Heaps and mountains of evidence on why any kind of diversity and inclusion is good for business. But I also have to qualify saying, I think, Generally, there is a lot of resonance on this topic and leaders now more than ever recognize that this is something which is not just a moral imperative, but a business imperative. But having said all of that, we haven't seen much traction on the ground. And that, You know, that goes back to saying, sometimes good intentions are not good enough, guys. We need a lot more. We need accountability. We need to measure to manage. We need to toe the line and hold people responsible because if you're really focused on creating change, it doesn't happen by default. Aradhana Khowala [00:27:04]: Change happens by design. David Millili [00:27:07]: The only thing I would add to that is for me, growing up outside of Philadelphia and not getting opposed to anything internationally until I was in my twenties is that I think the one time where it kinda clicked for me was I was Having drinks with my team when I was at Pegasus at ITV, and we had men, women, different, you know, cultures, different backgrounds, and The talk of what I learned from the viewpoints of people was incredible because now you then it triggered in my mind, you have to start thinking about Everybody, not only the gender, you know, race, religion, where are they at, and what are their viewpoints, not just how do you look at it. And that that was kinda Not the first, but the kind of the biggest eye opening thing for me. Aradhana Khowala [00:27:50]: True. Exactly. Cognitive diversity. Right? And, the physical manifestation of it could be through gender or race or whatever, but Really, what we're talking about is cognitive diversity, diversity of thought. Steve Carran [00:28:01]: So this is the last question we have we have for you, And it's a loaded one, so you're ready. So you've traveled around the world. You've met millions of people, I'm sure. What do you feel like is the purpose of life? Aradhana Khowala [00:28:15]: Hoo hoo. Steve Carran [00:28:16]: Told you. I told you. Aradhana Khowala [00:28:19]: Listen, this is how I would think about it. Right? So I consider myself fortunate, incredibly lucky. I mean, having lived in so many different places, The the rich diversity of experiences, and the sum total of all the people I have met in my life, the best schools, and universities I've studied in, companies I have worked for, Leaders I have, served with and for, I would probably put myself in the top 5% of the world's population. But then that means the way I think about it is that means I have a responsibility towards the remaining 95. What is the point of life otherwise? What is the meaning of life otherwise? So I think that is the purpose where each one of us Have a role in the wider society and it is not the time to sit back or be a bystander and say, is it my turn? Is it my job? Is it the right time to question this, raise this, Pick up this battle, but I think we all need to make that transition from being a bystander to someone who's actively confronting Things, situations, status quo, so we are collectively moving towards problem solution. Steve Carran [00:29:38]: I absolutely love that. That's awesome. Well, David and I have asked our questions, but John, our producer, he's been listening the whole time. We're gonna hand it over to him for, John's Final question here. Jon Bumhoffer [00:29:52]: Before I get to my final question, I do have a couple of, fact checking notes for you guys. Aradhana Khowala [00:29:57]: Yes. Jon Bumhoffer [00:29:58]: So the the sleep TED Talk is by Matthew Walker. I'll leave a link to that in the show show notes so you can find that there. And then the Nelson Mandela quote is, it always seems impossible until it's done. Keep it very close. Aradhana Khowala [00:30:12]: See the level Jon Bumhoffer [00:30:12]: Very close. Very good. Steve Carran [00:30:15]: The fact that Jon Bumhoffer [00:30:16]: I was able to find it by googling what you said means you were Aradhana Khowala [00:30:18]: close enough. Thank you. Jon Bumhoffer [00:30:21]: Alright. So so my question is about The slow travel idea, I I love that idea. You know, you talked about people are checking boxes, maybe a consumeristic mentality. People have bucket lists that they wanna get to. How would you advise like, how do you think about slow travel, and how would you advise people to think about travel To kinda get more out of it, knowing, like, in the back of my head, you think about slow travel, does that mean I get to go to less places If I travel slowly. Right? That's kinda like the negative that I hear when I talk about when I'm thinking about slow travel. Aradhana Khowala [00:30:53]: No. Listen. No. I think and I have to qualify. As I started by saying, I'm upset I'm no obsessive traveler. It is my one true love and perhaps the only addiction I have in life, travel. So travel as much as you can at every given opportunity and go everywhere because every time you travel, you're building bridges. You know? You move as you move, it's the best way to open your mind and your heart to people, cultures, so we all should jump at every opportunity Travel. Aradhana Khowala [00:31:20]: That's number 1. The way, I think of slow travel is how instead of just making it a superficial exercise, Well, like David was saying, hit the beach, you know, start read your book and then come back. Let's make a transition away from that into one where we're forging deeper connections with people and the place where we are visiting. I'll give you an example. This summer, I took my teenager on a mother and son bonding exercise up in Ladakh, which is probably one of the most remote mountain towns in in India on the border of Tibet. This was a 10 day trek where you're actually going up to 4,200 meters. Well, it was hard, to start with, So I'm terribly unfit. That's number 1. Aradhana Khowala [00:32:10]: 2nd, because you're tracking up with solar panels on your back and you're electrifying Monasteries and villages as you go along. Now I think, you know, given privilege is relative, but my Teenager who is relatively privileged, he came away see saying this was such a gratifying experience because Not only are you giving back more than you have taken from the community, the world at large, but you come back with a strong sense of fulfillment because you've just been on a social impact expedition. So going back to what David was saying, after that, we had a couple of weeks by the beach doing nothing in Thailand, And it was the 2 worst weeks of my life as nice as Thailand is. Because once you've had the emotional high of doing something where you're giving a lot more bad than you're taking. You're like, what's the point of me lounging around by the pool or by the beach when I could be changing, you know, Villages electrifying it and getting the world rid of poverty. So, be careful to not go on a beach holiday after a social impact expedition. But go on. That's social impact expedition nevertheless. David Millili [00:33:20]: Well, that was great. So that does it for another episode of the Modern Hotelia. Alright. Now please let us know how people can get in touch with you, whether it be you directly. How can people get in touch? What can they do? Plug away. Let us know how we can help you get people more involved. Aradhana Khowala [00:33:36]: Please go on to my website. Ping me on LinkedIn. If I like you, I will, David Millili [00:33:41]: Accept it. Aradhana Khowala [00:33:42]: Okay. Accept connection otherwise. Sorry. Now you're never blessed, but keep following me, guys. David Millili [00:33:49]: Sorry, Steve. You're not gonna get connected. Aradhana Khowala [00:33:51]: Oh, no. Speak now. Jon Bumhoffer [00:33:52]: I'll finish it. Steve Carran [00:33:53]: I think I already did. I it's Aradhana Khowala [00:33:54]: not right. Yeah. David Millili [00:33:56]: That's great. Well well, Thank you so much. Again, that does it for another episode of the Modern Hotelier. We really enjoyed having you, and we hope to see everyone again soon. Aradhana Khowala [00:34:04]: Thank you for having me, guys. It's been an utter delight. Thank you very much. David Millili [00:34:07]: Thank you, sir. Thank you.