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Erica Tebbens is a growth strategist and sales coach for visionary entrepreneurs who want to grow their business and get paid well, without compromising who they are or what they care about.

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She works with established service providers, consultants and coaches to create customized growth plans without complex systems, sleazy sales tactics or working more hours.

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Erica firmly believes in the power of integrity-driven, connection-centered sales and marketing strategies that allow entrepreneurs to grow their business sustainably in a way that feels good to them, and she's passionate about helping women and gender-expansive business owners grow their revenue with more ease, because money has the power to make positive change.

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With nearly 20 years experience running successful businesses, from solar operations to multi-million-dollar retail teams, she knows there's no perfect way to operate, only one that's perfectly aligned with your strength, values and vision.

0:55

Erica, hi, welcome to the Cinegroup podcast.

0:59

Hello, I was wrong. Oh, I have this song now, but this is probably really fitting to today's conversation.

1:07

It is. I loved it. I loved it.

1:09

Thank you for having me.

1:12

You're so welcome, like if you're tuning in now and you're like, wait, I'm on the musical episode.

1:18

No, you're not. But Buckle up, because it's got to be a juicy one, because we talk about we've got to talk about a lot about enneagrams and how we're both sevens and I'm sure we'll.

1:32

Erica, we'll tell you more about how that shows up in her life and business.

1:37

So if you know anything about enneagram seven, we bring the fun to any party.

1:44

So Buckle up, this is going to be good.

1:47

So, erica, like, give us the portals.

1:52

Who don't know you? Yeah, give us some.

1:54

Like, walk us through your story. How did you start it?

1:57

How you got where you're today? What were, like, your big moments?

2:02

Yeah. So my story is very much like in enneagram seven enthusiast story in that I have done a lot of things.

2:12

So I've been running businesses of all kinds and all sizes for almost 20 years now coming right up on 20 years and some were businesses I was running for other people, some were businesses I was running for myself.

2:29

And then, at the end of 2016, I was like and I will say, none of them had been like a purely online service-based business like my current one.

2:42

They were all a lot more like how we think of, like more like traditional business, right, so selling most of the time like face-to-face with people selling physical products or selling products online, stuff like that.

2:57

So, end of 2016, I was really just, I was burnt out.

3:04

I was in need of a change. I felt like I had reached the end of what I needed to do there in that business, in that very like enneagram seven way, when you're like great, I have done what I can do here and I know it's time to move on.

3:19

And I was really curious because I was like I don't know what to do next and I'm not sure what the options even are.

3:30

So I just started thinking like what's the thing I love doing the most, and it was teaching people with businesses how to grow their business in the best way for them.

3:42

And at the time, for a few years, I had a couple of local friends who were each starting their own businesses and we would go out to lunch and I would help them like strategize, and I was like, do people pay people for that?

3:54

Like I don't actually know if that's a thing, I mean.

3:57

And now, which is hilarious, because there's like so many people out there who get paid to do this work, you know.

4:03

But at the time I really had no idea and so I just started looking into it.

4:08

And then it just so happened that a really good friend of mine had a business coach and I was like, or that she had worked with and I knew of a little bit, and I was like, oh, okay, great.

4:19

Well, if I'm going to move, if I'm going to go online, if I'm going to switch up, like how I do business, I want to work with somebody who's already doing it, who can just create, like help me create those shortcuts.

4:30

And so I hired her and the rest was history.

4:33

So that was in 2017. So, yeah, wow, and have you got.

4:36

Have you got me bored yet? Yes, I mean well, okay, so it, you know, it's like it ebbs and flows, right.

4:42

It's like you get bored with like an offer and then you're like, okay, I'm going to like retire that thing or I'm going to shush it up or or whatever it is, to to kind of make it fun and interesting again.

4:56

And actually right now I'm going through not a massive pivot, but like a more, like a refining, because I have gotten a lot of traction as like the Sleaze Free Sales expert right, which is great and I love it, and I'm still all about Sleaze Free Sales.

5:15

But the thing that I have always woven into my work it's something that my clients have all heard is that you know, people can't buy what they don't know exists.

5:25

And I think a lot of what gets missed, especially in the online space, like when a lot of people are just talking about content, content, content is that people are not talking enough about intentional visibility.

5:39

So it's like people are churning out content and it's not converting, and it's like, yeah, it's like they're speaking into a void and part of that might be that they need to do some content tweaking, but it's also like you might not just like have enough of the right eyeballs on you, you know, and so I really love to work with people on not just visibility for visibility's sake, but what I like to call being unforgettable and well paid.

6:05

So being that person that people reach out to and go oh hey, you're the expert on XYZ.

6:13

I need somebody to talk about that for my podcast or in my summit or for my group coaching program.

6:20

You know, like that is really how you can reach so many more like perfectly aligned potential clients, and I'm a big believer in like sustainable business structure.

6:31

So making sure that people's offer so it's it's not just visibility for like the sake of more numbers, but that actually stands for like the like oh, I want to go viral Like, right yeah not stuff like that.

6:45

It's like it's like quality versus quantity and also making sure that that actually translates into money in your bank account, Like what is the whole route that people are taking from when they find you to being in your offer.

6:58

So I'm like really going all in on that, especially because the people that I work with and that I love working with are they are innovators, they are visionaries, they're thought leaders.

7:09

They have a unique approach to their work and their industry that deserves to be unforgettable, Like their message deserves to be out there in front of more people.

7:19

Yeah, I mean, that's a completely different. You have to approach marketing differently.

7:23

As you said, people don't look for what they don't know, right, like you have to find another way in and that can be tricky.

7:32

It gives a lot of messaging, tweaking and refinement and testing and tweaking and just to see what is working.

7:38

Oh, I really like that.

7:40

This is already like regardless if you're an energy person or not.

7:45

This is solid business advice people, because I'm always thinking of like when I hear like oh, I want to, like I don't know, I always want to hear like he's like oh, use this sound so your real goes viral, blah, blah, blah.

7:58

And I was like well, I don't want to end up like that influencer with like two million followers and couldn't sell like a single t-shirt.

8:05

Oh yeah, thank you.

8:07

Like rather, go with like the thousand people who pay me like I don't know all your blocks a year and I'm like sweet.

8:14

Totally, it makes a huge difference.

8:16

I mean, I had had clients who have, because of the niche that they're in, have hundreds of thousands of clients, because it's a type of niche, like content, subject matter, that people like to follow, but they're not necessarily the same people that care about that topic enough to want to buy, like a course, a program, a paid workshop, etc.

8:41

It's difficult, yeah, yeah.

8:44

Oh, so maybe since, since we're on this, what is apart from, like, focusing just purely on content and having, like the content only goggles on?

8:55

We already heard you say like it's got it.

8:57

You've got to like think about your entire ecosystem, as I like going to see you right, like where's the content leaning towards?

9:03

To like how you're turning this into a sale, kind of like the whole ecosystem user journey, however you want to call it Like.

9:11

What is another thing that people just get wrong about marketing their online business online?

9:18

Yeah, so I would say it is.

9:22

So you know, I'm I'm sure you hear all the time people who are like, oh, social media, you know, like I hate it, I wish I didn't have to be on it or it's such a time.

9:32

So you know, like all of that stuff, yeah, and and I think that really what it is, and like don't get me wrong, it can be super frustrating.

9:41

Like I'm a, I'm an Instagram girly through and through and, like last year, there were so many changes they made, especially in the second half of the year, I was really like WTW, I'm working anymore.

9:53

Yeah, like it was really really really frustrating because I've met like literally some of my best business friends like through connecting on Instagram first, and so you know, yeah, there there are like annoying things about it.

10:05

But I think that what people forget is, I think that so much attention is put on, you know, growing your like social media presence and posting content, and that you're just supposed to be getting clients like from that content all the time.

10:23

Like that that's how the machine is sort of supposed to run.

10:26

But really, like, at the end of the day, people had thriving businesses for hundreds of years before even the internet existed, much less social media, and they did it through connections, through relationships, through word of mouth, through building trust in this very like organic way.

10:44

And that is still predominantly like for people like us who are like, who work directly with clients.

10:52

Right, we are not just like, oh, I have my $2,000 course that I've scaled, you know, and that's it right Like we are actually working with clients.

11:01

So, for service providers, consultants and coaches who still work in some form or fashion with clients, being known as like a trusted person for the thing you do and the way you do it, and prioritizing relationship building is far, far more important than like super stressing out Over, yeah, how many views are real got, or something like that.

11:26

And so I think that the more like that's really what I I've been preaching and I want to keep preaching is that sense of like prioritize connection over like stressing about content to do the heavy lifting for you.

11:42

Because whenever I ask my clients to audit their clients, like in their business and I do the same, still like the vast majority are like oh, yeah, my clients come through like some form of relationship, either like a referral, or they maybe they connected on social media or they connected in a group program, they ran or something, and they just nurture the relationship over time.

12:07

And they use social media to kind of like accelerate this connection, to deepen it, whatever.

12:13

Yes, oh, I love this so much.

12:15

I remember back when I started like dipping into, like the online sphere, I always felt like kind of.

12:23

I remember I was in a, in a community and they were like, oh, I'm growing all my needs on social media and I'm like cool and I.

12:30

But it was almost kind of to the point where I'm like I am almost exclusively referral based in some form.

12:36

Right like either people reflect with me or who I was on a podcast on or whatever it's referrals in connection.

12:42

And almost it was almost the point where I'm like, oh, is something wrong with my business because I'm not generating like leads through content on Instagram.

12:51

Wait, what? Like? Almost kind of like, oh, is this like shame on me for like what?

12:57

And yeah, I also had a business coach who, who can like wash my head for this.

13:02

So thanks, jess. But yeah, yeah, I love that.

13:09

And I always also tell my clients who are earlier on and they're or start or thinking of starting your own business and your first like it's super, super hard to gain traction on social media, like really traction that converts into sales and your first couple of clients are, for sure, are people you already know.

13:29

Yeah, like you got to start within your network and then it will grow like, yeah, approach like a random stranger and be like, hey, I have this.

13:37

Like, do you want to do that? Sure, if your product is super amazing and super cool, can happen, but most likely they already have a connection with you, to know you, to trust you.

13:49

So yeah, it's really true. And I know too, like one thing I found when I moved into the online space and I was starting to, you know, as you do, like you get online, you're like learning from a bunch of different people, you're consuming a lot of different content, and I remember thinking like this just feels like a lot like it feels it feels really like complex and complicated and like it was very different than how I had always been doing business.

14:17

And then I was sort of like and I remember being really frustrated at first and then being like you know what I like, what is the thing that I'm just like good at that?

14:27

I know I could do that. I could sell super confidently.

14:31

And it was like, oh, like teaching.

14:33

I was like what if I just do like a two part half day series locally and reach out to business owners I already knew in the area, and then just be like, okay, we're going to do, you know, I'm going to teach you some fundamentals of sales and marketing that are going to help you to grow your business in like a really feel good, simple way.

14:56

And so I did that. I like rented a co-working space for two Saturdays.

15:01

I did like the outreach you know it was.

15:03

I made some like really simple worksheets, the whole thing.

15:06

It was great, it was so much fun and I ended up repurposing that.

15:10

It became my first like full fledged course and yeah, and so it was.

15:17

It was really really, really awesome and and it was really successful.

15:22

And I like it made me realize I was like, oh, I just need to stick with what is really what just feels almost effortless for me, which is like teaching people as a group, like that, just like I can, I can do it all day long really, and so, and that way I can also like serve more people at once and, like you know, keep the price lower, etc.

15:47

Etc. The whole thing, and so that that just was awesome.

15:50

And from there I realized I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

15:53

What if I just modify what I did in person but in the online space, and so like as essentially, what would be like a funnel, you know, or like part of a funnel, or like an easy way in for over complicating it just by calling it a funnel.

16:10

Yes, yes, exactly, exactly.

16:12

And so then I did that. I was like, oh wait, as I'm building up like followers and my network and things like that, it was like what if I just hold free trainings or low cost trainings and things like that that I just host on zoom and so like, joined from all over and like, and then, and then it was just like from there things just really, really shifted.

16:38

But I think it's sort of like the blessing and the curse of the online space is that there are so many ways to get to the same end goal that it's really great, Like it opens up a lot of possibility for a lot of different types of people to have success, Because if one way doesn't work for you, then there's likely another way that will.

16:58

But the curse of it is is that if you don't know how to sift through all that noise, if you don't know how to discern, then you end up wasting a lot of time and usually also money, learning tactics and strategies that ultimately are not going to be great for you.

17:17

Oh God, Amen.

17:19

Like, yeah, sold it's, and I feel there's even like a double and it's even worse, right, because the one like we're here on the scenic route way, we all have like that specific way of doing business where we're like, okay, we have to stretch each foundation in place, we work smart and we have fun along the way.

17:37

We're not like hustle culture, girl, boss, mom, entrepreneur vibes like no, no, yeah, you do that, you do you, we do we.

17:45

But I feel and that ties in with the anime as well I feel there's so much advice online from people who have made it, who have the seven figure lunch, blah, blah, blah, blah, who are, if we talk in, like in your grand talk, who are like a type eight, a challenger, type three, the achiever, you know, who are just like, yeah, born entrepreneurs.

18:12

They're like, yes, just straight shooters.

18:14

And I feel I don't know, we are sevens, we're not that, and so you kind of have to figure out, otherwise you're going to lose a lot of money, as you said, is this advice right for me?

18:26

And that is really I mean, I made that mistake too whereas like, ooh, that sounds like my advice.

18:32

I joined that mastermind and then realized, oh, holy fucking hell, no, yeah, look at this Like.

18:41

What are your like? Do you have kind of like favorite telltale signs to kind of like figure out if this is like?

18:46

What are your like red flags when it comes?

18:49

If you want to invest in, like a coaching program or something, what are your red flag?

18:53

That's?

18:54

a great question. I would say so, depending on how the program is structured, I need to know that it's going to be able to be adaptable or like modifiable if that's a word that it's not.

19:14

So what I mean by that is like that it's not just this is a set framework and we're moving you through it and everybody is going to have the same exact end result.

19:25

Right, and I will say too, like I'm a heavy investor in my business and coaching, like I will be the first to say like one of the best bits of advice I would give anyone is to like work directly with somebody that you vibe with, either like one to one or in a smallish group, you know.

19:44

I think we're one yet. Get like one of their courses, get whatever, get in to deer orbit somehow and then decide.

19:52

Yeah, exactly, and like because then that that is going to be like, that's going to be more helpful than just being like I don't know.

20:01

Like this person just seems to get great results, but like I don't really know if they, but like the rest of their stuff doesn't really like speak to me, like I just don't have that like gut reaction of like yeah, that's, this, is it.

20:11

But then, like, for me, I always need to know if I am joining.

20:17

Like a group program, let's say like is, is the intent of the program to give people customized advice to help them get to the goal, or is it like a okay, so what we're going to do in here is that you're going to create, like I don't know, a framework and then like a signature offer, and then you're going to run a webinar and they're going to do like where it's, it's very like literally everyone is is meant to be doing the same thing.

20:50

Because that's that's tricky, like it can be really tricky Just because it's not.

20:57

Even if it is a system that can work really well for many people, it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to work well for everyone.

21:05

So, like I was in a program I joined a bit over like a year ago.

21:09

Now I'm not in it like the my time and it has ended.

21:13

But the two questions I asked on the sales call were do you give people like customized advice or is it that like very strict kind of blueprint situation?

21:24

And also, am I going to be required to run paid ads?

21:29

Because those were going to like those are my two red flag deal breakers.

21:33

Yeah, those were like because, like for me, for what I want to do, because I've seen other other programs where it's like just do this and they teach you how to do the webinar and everything, and I'm like that's great and you don't have to run ads to a webinar.

21:45

But like, if the goal is to scale that thing to a million, like at some point you will have to.

21:50

And I'm not opposed to ads in general, I just don't want to at this point in my life.

21:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

21:57

I mean, the red flags are super personal and super tied to the season you ran in your business and I think that is so, so crucial to like understanding the certain mechanics of things, right, like.

22:08

That's why I'm so sometimes like really getting like I could slap someone in the face with a chair situation where I'm like someone is starting out in the business and then from somewhere they're getting advice to do like a $9 offer with like a $9 trip wire or whatever, and I'm like, yeah, sure, but if your audience is zero, how do you think you got to get enough people to pay your like, to pay your salary, to pay your limit?

22:34

Right, it's going to come true ads Right, right, right.

22:36

So you need to kind of like have a certain understanding of like how business has certain business models work.

22:41

Yeah, and I feel there's not so much transparency in online sphere about certain things.

22:47

So I really, yeah, I like that you said does it?

22:49

That's kind of like your red flag and I think it's generally good advice to kind of like if you invest, if you want to invest into whatever it is one on one membership courses, whatever to really be like, hey, what are my red flags, what I do not want, and then go through sales copy or through the sales talk and actually ask those questions and listen what would be the answer, because that's going to save you a lot of money.

23:13

Yeah, it definitely will, and I know for me, like I will not, I won't work with any client that wants to bring in the bulk of their revenue from very low ticket items, unless they have the type of business or systems or like things in place that are.

23:35

The foundation is set to do that.

23:38

Right, right, like if you, if you're like, yes, I can grow an audience like pretty quickly and like pretty large, and I feel comfortable, you know selling almost daily.

23:51

You know we're doing something like that to sort of like leverage that audience and or run paid ads.

23:57

Like then that's fine, like we can talk about that. But like generally, generally speaking, I am not working with clients who want to do that because I'm like, yeah, it's not, you will just burn yourself to a crisp, like I've seen it enough, just that way.

24:13

Yeah, for most people this is not sustainable way, right.

24:17

So I agree, channedly, it's sound business advice to say, focus on your one and one's first, or like your one to a fuse, whatever.

24:25

So I'm already hearing like I mean, I do that and I have my ways of dealing with that.

24:33

So I'm curious to hear yours. I'm already hearing like my Enneagram seven mind like, oh, focus on one offer only.

24:41

That it's so boring. So I know how I deal with it.

24:45

I'm curious how you deal with that.

24:48

Yeah, so I think I would be really miserable if I only had one offer, because, okay, so I pretty much like have adapted my business to work well with, like I really never like to work more than 25 hours a week.

25:07

It's like 20 to 25 is my is my sweet spot and so and I also have like ADHD and stuff right.

25:14

So there's like a lot of things where it rather than like work, rather than wishing I were different and just and trying to like overlook those elements of me and force it, I just go like okay, well, this is this is how I am like and this is the process like I do, as my clients and stuff too, which is like what?

25:29

Like? Who am I? How do I work best?

25:31

What is the schedule that I want to work Like, when am I tired, when am I the most focused, et cetera, et cetera.

25:37

And I just build around that, and so for me, what that looks like is like I really like to be able to think about something, think of a new offer, and be like oh, I could do that as an intensive I love doing intensive kind of like a VIP day, but it's not a whole day, it's not even half day, it's usually just like a few hours and then being able to create this simplest version of that thing and just put it out there and sell it as a beta and just seed, because I've done it before where I'm like, oh my God, this is amazing and I keep offering it.

26:16

And then I've done it before where I've done a few and I'm like, well, that was okay, but it actually made me realize like I would be really bored, like doing that same thing with individuals again and again and again privately.

26:30

But it informed the fact that like, oh, what I really need to do is like change the offer in this way.

26:38

For instance, I have a five week group program.

26:43

It's like almost more of like a live five week course, kind of like a bootcamp type of thing.

26:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah, because it's not like a coaching, it's not like you know, we don't have like actually coaching calls, but it's like, yeah, so it's like a five week boot camp community called Unforgettable Well Paid.

27:03

That was inspired by.

27:06

I used to have an intensive called Rad Clients, unrepeat.

27:11

So, interestingly enough, this, that intensive.

27:14

I did it multiple times and then I realized I was like so many people need, like I'm basically doing the same thing over and over and over and so many people need this like to do it individually.

27:27

It was not in that way. It wasn't lighting me up right.

27:30

So I took it and I like took the content and I made it into a paid workshop that people can still get, like they can get it on demand and go through it.

27:38

It's only like 90 minutes long. And then.

27:41

So I did that first and then later I like figured out okay, how can I turn it into this like five week live boot camp, and then that became Unforgettable, well Paid, so I could like repurpose those things into other offers.

27:56

But I wouldn't have like no, necessarily to do that if I hadn't have just been that like fast acting in theagram seven.

28:06

That's like I want to whip this thing up and I'm going to like run several people through it and then taking my like feedback and my experience with it and then figuring out how to that like it's not quite right as this, but like how can I still reuse what I've done here in other ways?

28:22

And now that group program I'm turning into like a higher level, like the group program still exists, but like a higher level VIP day where I am doing it with you.

28:34

So, like for somebody who's like, I don't want to sit through the five things and then put it together on my own.

28:40

Like Erica just helped me put together my compelling pitch, tell me like you know where I should pitch and then what is my like?

28:48

Like funnel, look like on the back end.

28:51

Yeah, that's all so much, so much juicy bits to unpack here.

28:55

I mean, that's probably one of the things that, although we're not the classic entrepreneurial type, we sevens that is that is our strong suit Like we were quick and fast and we're not like, we're not afraid to get dirty and to like get it like not perfect, like just like we have it, we see if we're wrong with it, and that really helps us, right, because we fail faster and like see what is actually working and what is not working and then be like, oh okay, maybe I can see and we're curious enough to be like hey, how what they work, would in work and how can I make that would in work?

29:33

How can I make it work? What do I need to tweak?

29:35

So I really yeah, yeah, I really like that.

29:38

And the other part is it comes back down to what you said right, building to build your business around your, your strengths and personalities and all your things.

29:49

Right, like I mean, for you it's HTC, for me it's like endometroces and just really having days where I'm just low energy and I'm like no, no, not having this, it's really.

30:01

It's not to like look how other people structure your business, but you actually look what do you want and double down on that shit, like really hone in on all of it, like go, like, go all in on what is like your, your type of weird yeah right, absolutely yes.

30:19

So the more that like, the more that you lean into what feels simplest and best and most enjoyable for you, then, yeah, absolutely the better.

30:31

It would be Like if I literally had one signature offer that I was just like.

30:38

Let's say, I was like I don't know a group program or a membership or something and I was just moving people into that all of the time.

30:44

I know after a while, like it just wouldn't, it wouldn't work for me, like I have.

30:51

So my group program is cohort style.

30:53

I typically run it a couple of times a year.

30:56

Yeah, and I really thought last year like I was like I am going to evergreen this, like that's the quote unquote smart thing to do.

31:04

And you know that's true. The one paper thought of, yeah, on paper.

31:08

Yeah, because, like you know financially, if you're like well, what if somebody comes along after cart is closed and then you know like all of that stuff, like you know they can't come in and like maybe you're out that money, but I like.

31:22

The more I thought about it I was like I like it cohort based.

31:26

I really like to keep it small.

31:30

I like to get to know everyone really well in there.

31:34

I like to not feel spread too thin, like I just I really really really enjoy that part of it.

31:41

And so I just had to embrace the fact that like, yeah, this is going to go evergreen, like this is how I like to do this offer, like end of story, you know, and that like by doing that I will actually I can trust that I will have more success with it overall than if I tried to force it as evergreen.

32:04

Because the other thing too, knowing about myself with like the anagram seven and the ADHD, I mean no, I only if I'm like okay, for six weeks you're going to talk about this.

32:15

I mean for anybody, that's all play that I can super focus and just do it knowing that there's an end date.

32:24

Yes, but if you were like out there that there's an end date, yes.

32:28

Yes, but if it was like you're going to be doing that all year nonstop, I would just shut down because I would be like, well, I don't it, just it feels too vast, it feels like too much so it's kind of like it's too overwhelming.

32:44

I mean I know, I mean I had business coach tell me like oh, if you sign on one-on-one clients, it's mostly for like, for the coaching I sign only.

32:52

Sign on three months. If you want to do, if you want to resign, cool, I like I'll save your spot, that's fine, you can do, resign for another three months.

33:00

They're not going to do six or 12 month containers, like sure, like 12 months of recurring revenue, awesome.

33:06

But justice at the, at this season where I am at with like a small kid and everything going on, never even figuring out help wise, I'm like just a sheer thought of 12 month commitment, it's like freaking me out.

33:18

Yeah, like, no, no, so why would I want that?

33:23

Right, like okay, yeah, the money, but the bud list is pretty long.

33:29

Yeah, that's a really great example too, because I know like I have no doubt you could think of highly valuable stuff to do with somebody for 12 months.

33:38

But it's yeah, if it feels like for you that it's like I can't even plan out that long, I don't even know Like, especially when people put out new offers and they're like, yeah, it's going to be nine months or it's going to be 12 months Not that there's anything wrong with that or that it's automatically you're going to like regret it, you know.

33:59

But I think for me, how I like to look at it is what if I put this thing out there and then I realize, oh, I actually don't, like, I actually don't love this right Kind of like.

34:11

So, like my that like VIP day I was talking about, right, like it doesn't really matter.

34:14

I think I did like I don't know a handful of them, right, but like it's, it's, it's a one off.

34:18

It's like we're talking for 90 minutes. I write you up a thing maybe we have a little boxer on the back end Like that's it, and like I'm not committed to hanging out with you, know you, and holding space with you for like nine more months after that.

34:31

Right, I'm talking about the same thing over and over and over.

34:36

So it's, it's like a low stakes trial of a thing.

34:41

But if you're like, but like I like, it would be maybe a little different for me now to be like, oh, I'm just going to fully trial run a thing that's like a year long, because what if I get four months into it and I'm like I am really bored of it, like I don't like this.

34:59

It's not enjoyable for me, like, yeah, as the person at the helm, like I'm not feeling lit up.

35:05

I know that that is not doing a service to the clients, because if my whole heart is not in it, then I don't feel like I'm honoring their investment in me.

35:18

Yeah, and it's just like you're not it it.

35:21

You're just it's not. You have such a harder time holding space for them and also like kind of like holding their energy.

35:29

If you're like like, how, how can you be?

35:33

But be like super cheery when you're like I mean, some people can do that, I don't know but super exhausting, like, oh dear Lord, no, yeah, so that, yeah, that is like always kind of like focus on, focus back on what you want and like giving yourself options right, like I always feel it's so.

35:52

It's so interesting Like most of us who started out in corporate are going into self and self employment because, like, we want to make our own rules, we want to have more freedom.

36:01

And then we're in business and then we follow someone else's blueprint, someone else's rules, no-transcript, religiously and be like, oh, I cannot structure, like I have to do 12 month containers of whatever.

36:15

I'm like, no, you do not have to Like, absolutely not.

36:19

Like, if you just want to pump out a different offer every month, like an intent to be two hour intensive, then try it Right, like there are no rules.

36:29

Yeah. And, conversely, if you're somebody who's like I despise the idea of doing a VIP day, I really love to spend a lot of time with folks like cool, have a 12 month thing, you know, like if that is going to light you up, like yeah, do that thing and then make you know.

36:47

Have people commit to a full year, like yeah.

36:52

Yeah, and also like that's another thing, like you always have to and I feel there's so much buzz in your lens, fear about like you got to have a course or you're not an online entrepreneur, and like I probably will have a course someday, but right now, I know my magic is in one to one work.

37:09

That's that's where I have, where I deliver the biggest value, make the biggest difference.

37:14

Not in a course, and why? Because I'm not into like that's also why I specifically work in rebranding.

37:20

I don't. I don't want to talk to people all over again and all the time, you know, with the basics, like right, right, right, what is marketing, what is branding?

37:32

Like, yes, I do focus on that in my content at points, and there are some nuances to that that are super important, but I don't want to do like all of that all over again or like I know, yeah, give me the challenge, yeah, I'm, I'm the same and like I, yeah again.

37:52

I think it's just that like it's really easy to go down those rabbit holes of shoulds and but I know that every time that I've been like you know what, I'm just going to go all in on the thing that I love the most, that it always, it always works better because, like in the realm of selling, I firmly believe I do not have scientific proof or anything like that.

38:19

However, I will say that, when it comes to selling something that you feel so strongly in that you're so excited to deliver that you, like, are just over the moon excited about, you will be able to sell it so much more easily than trying to sell a thing that you're like ooh, I don't know, I'm unsure, I have doubts, etc.

38:46

Etc. Somebody just told me I should have this thing right, like if you, whenever I've had something or a client has had something that they're like oh, hell, yes.

38:54

Like I know who needs this, I know why they need it, this is an amazing price, it's an amazing value, all of that the sales process always goes so, so, so much better and even if it's like a moment in time, because you know, we all have those moments in times where it's like things just get funky and a launch just goes sideways right, or the sales are coming how you hoped.

39:16

It also takes the sting out of it and can like allow you the space to be like okay, let me analyze, like what worked, what didn't, and like create a plan to relaunch it rather than it feeling like, oh, this is a total failure, I'm a total failure.

39:32

All of that Like again, I don't, to my knowledge, nobody has studied the like you know, positive effects of your energy towards the thing you're selling in a launch and if it makes a difference.

39:45

But like I feel, like I have enough anecdotal evidence in myself and in my clients that like, when you are fully invested in something and feel like it's amazing, you can sell it way more effectively than something you're just like.

40:04

I don't know. I think I should have a course, so I made this course and I think, hello, I'm buying, yeah, yeah.

40:11

Yeah, that's again something that is in, that's in our favor, right, because we're like, yeah, generally we're excited about every goddamn little shit that's out there, right, like, we're like I love this.

40:22

Oh, a bird Like a paper, but like a pen, cool pen, like, so I get that.

40:29

But so I'm curious. I'm gonna riff on that Because I think you said, as kind of like a side note I don't want to talk to that more Like, yes, I do firmly believe that our energy, our vibes, transfer to our clients or to our positive potential clients, and I also could not cite any like scientific research on that, but I'm kind of sure that there has been done something on that.

40:51

But anyway, like, but at the same time, right, there's currently there's so much buzz about like magnetism and like feminine and masculine energies and like all that sorts of thing, and that's kind of like same as your excitement.

41:05

Yes, you probably got to sell ease more and more easy and overall more when you're super excited about what you're, about your program.

41:14

But you said like, as you said like, but if, like when the price is right, never think that's the key.

41:18

Right, if your strategy strategy, if your foundations are set, then your excitement and your feminine energies and whatever are going to help you sell.

41:30

Like, if your product doesn't have a product market fit, if your price point is off, like if all the foundations are not there, you can be excited about it all you fucking want, not gonna sell shit.

41:41

Yes, very true, very true. And that's why, like, yeah, I for me I also don't work with beginners, like there needs to be.

41:50

Yeah, so if you're, if you're a beginner, like you're, I mean, but I guess it's like okay.

41:54

So I go back to okay, when I was a beginner and then I thought about how can I do that class locally, whatever?

42:00

Obviously that's not going to be for everyone, because not everyone's going to want to like rent a space and teach a class and create worksheets and all that stuff.

42:07

But, yeah, like, think of actual people, like and and again, like this is where it comes down to.

42:13

Like, think of actual people that you know could benefit from the thing and reach out and tell them about it.

42:19

Like that is a part of sales, like I hate to break it to people, but like the goddess times, reach out and just let people know that a thing exists and that you think it might be perfect for them.

42:31

Yeah, I know that that can feel cringe, as the kids say like, but like but you can make it in a non like where we can be cringe, but just do it in a non cringe way.

42:42

I mean, what is cringe? Hold the M it super.

42:45

I mean, yeah, your Lord, please. Like, let's be 2023 the year where we actually really stop this ship.

42:52

Right, you got to find a way how you can make it non cringe.

42:56

And to me we've said it before if I'm in a connection with someone and like we're vibing, we're sending each other funny memes on Instagram DMs and I have something that I feel like, mm, I have this kind of notch that this could be something either it's for you or you might know someone.

43:16

Yeah, then I don't know, I feel that's less, that's not cringe, but then again, I'm not one of the cool Tiktok kids, so maybe it is still cringe.

43:24

But, like, just find a way how you can make it not cringe.

43:30

Yeah, exactly, just like human to human, that's what I like.

43:33

My group program. I just had a successful launch.

43:36

There were several people that I was like I don't want to rely on an algorithm making sure that they see that this is open and so you know, or that they, like, have seen my emails.

43:47

So I just reached out and I was like hey, we talked about this before, so I want you to know.

43:52

It's like open again. And you know what, like the vast majority of those folks were like oh yeah, it's like you know it's still not the right time or I don't think any, you know whatever, but it's like yes.

44:04

But I also got many who were like oh yeah, cool, thank you.

44:08

Like I'm in, you know. So that is also just a part of it.

44:13

And yeah, and they were all people I had like relationships with.

44:16

It was not out of left field, it was not a cold DM.

44:19

But you know, I was excited about the offer because I know, like I know what my program can do for people and I wanted to make sure that they at least knew about it before the doors closed so they could choose if they, you know, wanted to join or not, and if the answer is no.

44:37

No, no hard feelings over here, but like, but yeah, so like, even if you're early, you're on, like yeah I mean you kind of influenced if to say yes or no, but you can influence if they actually heard about it or not.

44:46

Yeah, not relying on the algorithm or your email provider or whatever, but actually like hey, yeah, yeah.

44:54

And I would just say, like you, you there's no in those in that early bit, there's no getting around the like you know, putting in the reps of the uncomfortable bits to like.

45:05

We're like, yeah, don't really want to do this. Oh yeah, it's so uncomfortable.

45:09

I mean, it's uncomfortable at every level, like that's the truth is, it's uncomfortable at every level.

45:13

It's never getting more comfortable. Yeah, I agree. I agree, there's no set it and forget it.

45:18

There's no like great, we made it to the top of the mountain and now we're coasting.

45:22

It doesn't, it doesn't happen, like because you just get different problems.

45:26

I mean, and that's not to say it's not worth it, but it's just like, embrace the fact that, like, there will be new challenges at every level.

45:33

Yeah, just embrace the fact that it will never be like clear blue skies, move sailing, because you would be bored as fuck anyways.

45:40

Yeah, like there will always be murky bits where you're like I have actually no fucking idea what I'm doing here, but I'm just wave and smile, Uh-huh, Like, roll with it right, Like, but yeah, at the same time really letting that go of.

45:53

Like there will be a point in my business where everything will be like easy and not cringe and like whatever.

46:01

Yeah, yeah, it doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong either, because like it's just, yeah, there's no.

46:08

Whether your business brings in 50,000 a year or 5 million a year, like, every business owner has some some area that they're like troubleshooting or you know, working out or whatever.

46:23

And it doesn't mean that like they're bad or wrong or anything.

46:27

It's just that like it is what it is.

46:29

Yeah, it is what it is. It's sort of like if you've never managed people before and now your business is at a level where you really need to bring on some done for you, like support, you're gonna have to figure out how to like be a boss type person, be a leader you know like, and that's a different self.

46:48

Yeah, and also like, oh God, so many more on how to do payroll right.

46:52

Like it's great. Also, different financial planning aspect.

46:54

There would always be things where like, oh, no one told me that, yeah, so I'm curious.

47:03

You're bringing on something for anyone who is listening.

47:07

You're bringing something cool to work with.

47:10

What is in the plan for profit guide that people are like who?

47:15

never heard of. Yeah, yeah, so you know how earlier we were talking about not selling a $9 thing and trying to take all your money off of that.

47:25

So the plan for profit guide, so it's either at bitly forward slash plan for profit guide all one word, all lowercase or if you just go to EricCutabinscom and my resources, get it as show notes.

47:37

Yeah, if you go to my resources tab, it's in there and it's a really short set of like worksheets like it's really brief and also a really short video that walks you through them.

47:50

And what it's going to do is it's going to look at what are the hours that you want to be working or can work in your business, and then it also looks at the current clients you're working with and like how long it's taking you to deliver whatever it is they're paying for.

48:09

And you look at your offer suite and also like how long it takes you to deliver each of your offers and then also like then how much time is left for like marketing and those like business growth activities, and so what it's going to do is it's without a lot of like.

48:28

There's no like complicated spreadsheets or anything like that.

48:31

It's just going to give you a really simple bird's eye view of like.

48:35

Is the math, math thing in your business If you say yeah, or is it uncomfortable truth of like you need to raise your prices or you need to shift some things because Because you hire on or whatever.

48:46

Yeah, all of that stuff, because it's going to like.

48:49

If you're like I want to work only 30 hours a week in my business and these are the offers and these are the pricing, and this is how long it takes if I were to be booked out, it's gonna you're gonna know in like 15 minutes or less that like, oh, this is or this isn't sustainable.

49:08

And then from there you will be able to make better choices around how you're marketing, when you're marketing, like what you're moving people into, etc.

49:20

Etc.

49:23

So, yeah, this is good, okay, this is gonna be super, super helpful.

49:26

And I mean, even if you feel like, oh, I'm good, that's probably like I don't know, looking at your Google Analytics or your like financial planning spreadsheet, just do it.

49:35

Just do it Like, be honest and do it every now and then and be like, well, okay, I knew it was all good.

49:42

The numbers say, the math says it's all good, so we're good.

49:45

And then we might be in for a surprise, so I like that.

49:47

Yeah, oh, tell me also, like, where can people find you online, where you hang?

49:51

out. So I hang out mostly on Instagram.

49:54

So I'm over there Erica Tebbins consulting.

49:56

I'm technically on LinkedIn but, like, if you friend me over there or whatever, I might not see it for a while Because it's kind of like a black hole over there.

50:05

But Instagram I'm always hanging out on Instagram and I have a podcast.

50:13

It's not active right now but there's over 150 episodes on Sleaze Free, sustainable Sales and Marketing.

50:19

It's called Sell it Sister, so you can go and you can binge the back catalog.

50:24

And then I also published a book last year.

50:26

That's not actually a business book, but it's very much in line with the people who I serve and probably a lot of your listeners, like people who are wanting to shake things up with the status quo, and so it's all about changemaking.

50:41

So it's called You've Got this A Counterintuitive Guide to Powerful, inevitable Changemaking.

50:46

So if you're somebody who's like I want to make a difference in the world, but you feel like you've got to be Oprah in order to actually do that, I'm here to say that's not true.

50:54

So that is on. It's on Amazon, so it's self-published on Amazon.

50:58

So either Kindle or paperback and you can get it wherever you live in the world.

51:03

You should be able to get it. But yeah, that is really it.

51:05

Okay, also another link to that in the show notes. And speaking of books, I always have one last question.

51:10

Yeah, I'm curious what book are you currently reading?

51:13

Oh, I am almost done with a novel called when Women Were Dragons and I cannot think of the author's name off the top of my head.

51:21

But it's really good, it's really cool and fantasy.

51:27

It sounds like fantasy, but is it? It's like fantasy reality, okay, like it takes place in the 50s and 60s, and the premise is basically that it's very much like if you're somebody who's a feminist and you're down with the patriarchy, I think you'll like it because it's.

51:50

The premise is that basically, women were getting set up and then they could transform into dragons, and so it's really cool.

52:01

So it's not high fantasy, it's not like full-on fantasy.

52:05

Yeah, like I did whatever.

52:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah, so it's really cool.

52:11

Okay, that's gonna go on my pile.

52:14

Okay, yeah, I'm like yeah, I want to be a trackette.

52:18

Where'd I?

52:18

track. Yes, it's really, really cool.

52:21

Oh, and I forgot to say so, for my people can also find my book and even read the first chapter for free on my site.

52:29

There's a tab that says book, or just ericatebbinscom forward slash book, and the first chapter is it starts with when I ran for office, so in 2017.

52:40

So, yeah, that's something I've done.

52:42

I've run for office. Oh, I love it.

52:45

So, yeah, okay, I feel like we could, I know only in this conversation.

52:50

I feel like, oh, there are like five more podcast topics we could totally talk about, but for now, thank you so much for being on a scenic route with me, erica.

53:01

It was as predicted, it was a blast.

53:04

Thank you so much.