0:42

Valerie Mayan is the innovative mind behind

0:44

Yellow Cake Shop , a distinctive brand known

0:46

for its luxury , hand-made clothing . As

0:48

the owner and creative force , valerie has committed

0:51

her brand to crafting high-quality garments

0:53

in the United States , tailored for the everyday

0:55

working woman . Not only is the Yellow Cake celebrated

0:57

for its style and quality , but it's also a beacon

0:59

of ethical and socially responsible fashion

1:02

. And if your name sounds familiar , that's because

1:04

Valerie showcased her incredible talent on season

1:06

8 of the Project Runway . Valerie

1:08

, hi , welcome to Scenic Route podcast podcast . Hi

1:11

, thanks for having me Tell us a bit like

1:13

how you became interested

1:15

in sustainable fashion and what

1:17

inspired you to start your own slow

1:19

fashion business .

1:21

Yeah , so I became interested in

1:23

fashion much later in life . I actually

1:25

went to school for illustration

1:27

and graphic design when I was fresh out

1:30

of high school . I always wanted to be an

1:32

artist and I just figured I'm going to be a painter

1:34

and illustration seems like the

1:37

most approachable

1:39

way for me to do it . I didn't feel like I could

1:41

pursue fine art , I didn't feel like I had

1:44

your talent set enough

1:46

. And illustration , from the start on it

1:48

seemed okay , it was digestible for

1:50

me . But in the back of my

1:52

mind I'd always wanted to pursue fashion , but I never

1:54

did , because I grew up in a very traditional Latin

1:57

American household where you either become

1:59

a doctor or a lawyer or a teacher or you

2:01

marry a rich , not an artist , yeah

2:04

, and so which was funny to me because my

2:06

dad's a home builder . He came

2:08

from nothing in Guatemala and he

2:10

made his business

2:13

literally . He learned how to build homes through

2:16

trial and error and through osmosis

2:18

and learning , and he's a genius . He

2:21

really is a master craftsman . So

2:23

he's an artist in his own right and so , yeah

2:25

, absolutely , For

2:27

me to become an entrepreneur and an artist myself was

2:30

like it was an abomination to my family

2:32

. So I

2:34

really put off pursuing fashion for a long time because

2:36

I felt like being a painter and artist

2:38

was one thing , but being in the fashion industry was just

2:40

like a sinful , horrible awful

2:42

People just put the nail in their coffin , yeah

2:44

. And so I never pursued it until

2:47

I was after I graduated from my

2:50

first degree and I'd

2:52

been bartending at a restaurant

2:54

that was a little bit higher end and I

2:56

was working part-time at BCBG

2:59

, which is like that French

3:01

design , max Asria , and

3:05

so I was getting a really good discount on French clothing and I

3:07

was working at this high-end restaurant as a bartender , and

3:09

so a lot of the women there would often ask me oh , I love

3:11

what you're wearing , did you make that ? Or where did

3:13

you get that ? Or who made what you were

3:15

? And I got tired of telling them

3:17

that I couldn't make it or I didn't make it , and

3:19

I was like I could probably make this , and

3:23

so I don't think that would never occur to me .

3:25

Like I know , I could not .

3:27

Well , I wasn't sure if I could . I think in my mind I was

3:29

just thinking like I've never tried it , but could I

3:31

? Maybe I should try it . So I just figured I've

3:33

always wanted to do fashion , why not now ? So

3:37

I enlisted the help of a friend

3:39

. There was a woman who asked me to make her a dress for some

3:41

event , and I knew this

3:44

friend of a friend from BCBG , where

3:46

I worked . It was this girl's sister and she

3:48

was taking sewing classes at this local college and

3:51

so she helped me make this dress that I designed for this

3:53

woman . And things went sideways really

3:55

fast Because , woman , she offered me

3:57

double what I was asking

3:59

. I was like whoa , this is awesome . And

4:02

she was having us meet her at the ritz for her fittings

4:04

and all these really fancy places . But

4:07

then at the very end she ended up not wanting to pay me

4:09

the balance that she owed because

4:12

she wanted to pay the girl that was sewing it instead of me

4:14

. And I was like so , because I didn't actually

4:16

sew it myself , but I'm the

4:18

person that orchestrated everything , I'm the person

4:20

that picked out the fabric , I'm the person that designed the

4:22

garment on paper . She

4:24

didn't want to pay me the rest . So I

4:26

really took that to mind and

4:28

I said , you know , I should just learn how to do this myself . And

4:31

so I took a few classes at a local the

4:33

same school that my friend went to and my friend

4:35

had nothing , she was not in the wrong , like she didn't

4:37

do it . Yeah , no , yeah , that's

4:40

kind of like I'm going to decide how to pay you and this person , even though

4:42

I agree with it . Yeah , it's not up , it's not your decision

4:45

, it's not your call , I'm setting the terms

4:47

and boundaries . Yeah , right , yeah , she agreed to the

4:49

terms and then she reset the terms and then she told me that we were

4:51

charging her too much and I was like you upped your

4:53

own price . It was bizarre . It was almost like

4:55

she was drunk when she agreed to everything . I don't know

4:57

what happened , but it was , and I was very young

4:59

, I think I was like in my early twenties at the time already

5:02

mid twenties so I didn't know what I would did . No

5:04

, but after that experience I

5:06

was like you know , I worked too hard to

5:08

, to , to not get what I deserved

5:10

for this , you know , and so I took

5:13

a year . Yeah , I

5:15

, I really . I think that was the turning point

5:17

for me , when I was like I , I should learn

5:19

this , and maybe this is like the impetus that

5:21

I needed to actually like you know , yeah , so

5:24

the chendel kick in the butt too . Yeah , exactly

5:26

, exactly . So I enrolled in

5:28

the same school that my friend was going to and I just said you know

5:30

, I'm going to take one class and see how I like it , and I

5:32

took a class that the class I took the first

5:34

, the intro class , was called . I think it

5:37

was like how to make a button down shirt or something . It

5:39

was like it's the basic , but I think it was even like

5:41

not even a button down , it was like tank top , like a yeah

5:43

, yeah , well , zipper , no , just no sleeves

5:45

, just a tank top . And I did pretty

5:47

good and I was like , oh , this is , yeah , I could do this

5:49

. So then I took the next class and I took the next class and

5:52

I took enough classes that I was like I

5:54

decided to drop out of the whole program

5:56

because a I didn't have enough money to

5:58

actually take all the classes that came with the whole

6:00

. It was like an associate level of fashion degree

6:02

. Oh , wow , okay , yeah , I mean , yeah , I was like

6:04

I don't have the time and I don't have the patience . And I was already

6:07

in my mid to late twenties and so I was the oldest kid

6:09

in the class , you know , because most of the girls

6:11

in there were , you know , right out of high school . And

6:13

so I was like , yeah , I'm going to just I'll

6:15

just read books and , you know , figure

6:18

it out . And I , I only

6:20

learned how to make a tap , a skirt

6:22

and a dress . And then I dropped out

6:24

because I couldn't afford to finish the courses

6:26

financially or , you know with

6:28

my time . And then

6:31

, yeah , I just like Googled the shit out of everything

6:33

I could find on fashion or fashion

6:35

mentors or fashion blogs that I didn't

6:38

want to fashion blogs about style , I wanted fashion

6:40

blogs about the process . I wanted fashion blogs

6:42

about people in the fashion business , and

6:44

I came upon Kathleen Fassinella

6:46

, who was the author of

6:48

a blog called fashion incubator , with is

6:51

a hyphen . So if anyone goes looking for fashion

6:53

incubatorcom without the hyphen , you'll

6:55

end up in a very different place . Okay

6:57

, so we'll like the right one in the show

6:59

. Yeah , yeah , hopefully one of the fashion

7:01

hyphencom . Now , I honestly have

7:03

not been on her blog , though in

7:05

quite some time . I mean , I was on it for the first

7:08

like four or five years of my fashion journey

7:10

, but that's . You know . That was in like 2009

7:12

to you know , 2014

7:14

, 2015 . So I haven't

7:17

been on it in a while , but I actually took one of her classes

7:19

. She offered this one class once

7:21

a year in New Mexico . She only offered

7:23

three students and you had to

7:25

fill out like a questionnaire

7:28

because she has Asperger's , and so she

7:30

was like you know , I only allow

7:32

certain people to take my class because I can't handle certain

7:35

personality types , and if you don't , you know , I

7:37

love Des approach yeah .

7:39

And she's like doesn't sell it , it's like best business

7:41

, best business lesson , like

7:44

know yourself and face that Andre's

7:46

, do your exactly and do you and design your

7:48

services whatever it is and

7:50

design your business accordingly . And it doesn't mean

7:53

it's not going to be successful or whatever . Right

7:55

it just right . Yeah , 오 fired and our partners in this class have in fact been there , yeah

7:57

, and so she .

7:58

Actually we joke now because I mean after that class

8:01

she was my mentor for a while and you

8:03

know we keep in touch a little bit but not a lot , but

8:05

we always joke about that . You

8:07

know , she said I barely passed that quiz to be able

8:09

to take her class , because I'm

8:11

a little more like I talk a lot . I'm kind of

8:13

like , well , you know , and she you

8:15

know .

8:16

I see where that could go . Not so

8:18

well with some of that .

8:22

So with my slal . So it was another girl

8:24

named Kit , and then it was another

8:27

girl , a woman , named

8:29

Cindy , and Cindy and

8:31

Kit and myself were the three that took the class . Cindy was from

8:33

New York . I was , you know , living here in Cleveland , Ohio

8:36

, and then Kit was local to Abercoury

8:38

, so we were there in New Mexico . We

8:40

all flew in . I was , I think , is before

8:42

I went on Project Runway . I think I was in my

8:44

mid , I think it's maybe 26

8:47

, 27 at the time , and it was three

8:49

days and we stayed . Cindy and I shared

8:51

a hotel and it was great . We learned a lot about

8:53

you know the process and the ins and outs and

8:55

just the dos and don'ts of running a slow fashion

8:57

business and what that looks like and

8:59

why it's best to employ your neighbors and employ

9:02

local if you can . You know a more

9:04

money . Yeah , You're going to want to do that .

9:07

What's there like a specific inspiration

9:09

of ? I mean

9:11

, you could have gone high end , right

9:14

, like you could have gone a million different

9:16

ways within the fashion industry . How

9:19

, how come you were like now I want

9:21

to do slow fashion . That's the right approach

9:24

for me .

9:25

Yeah , for me . At first I was really

9:28

discouraged because I I loved fashion so

9:30

much and I was very conflicted because I

9:32

wanted to pursue , you

9:35

know , the traditional path of fashion

9:37

that people . You know the devil wears Prada , the

9:39

macaws .

9:42

Which , which happens ? Allure , right , right , Right

9:44

, right , so right , I mean , we all like

9:46

nice fangs , right .

9:48

Yeah . So I think a lot of people assume that you

9:50

know , we draw pre pictures , we send

9:52

them off to some . You know , katerina , in

9:55

Paris they make it and then it ends up on the runway

9:57

. It's very Cinderella , you know . Like we have like , yeah

9:59

, it's very like . I cannot handle

10:01

. When I watch a movie it's typically a Disney

10:03

movie or some kind of like made for TV all-marred movie

10:05

where there's like a woman who's like

10:08

a high powered fashion

10:10

designer exec and she's like

10:12

you know , has like the look

10:14

and she has like the limo driver and she like

10:16

like . I think there's this new show on Netflix called glamour

10:18

. It's about some . I think , oh yes

10:20

, I've seen it , I'm a sucker for all of

10:23

that . Yeah , I'm bad at TV . It's

10:25

just it's so cheesy . But it's like when I , when I look at some

10:27

of those those little stories , how they're just

10:29

like showing these designers in a very unrealistic

10:32

way , I'm like no one does it like that . It's

10:34

not that easy . Like it's not just like

10:36

all glitz and glamour . It's like a lot of back

10:38

breaking , difficult work , like it's it's

10:40

really hard and it's

10:42

I wish it was that glamorous , but it's not . I would

10:44

say it's like maybe three percent of glamorous

10:46

, like maybe three percent

10:48

glamorous , so in a fashion Okay .

10:50

So that brings me to an interesting

10:53

question that I'm like , okay , how like

10:55

. So you kind of like went into like the

10:58

glitz and would like a thing for the glitz

11:00

and the glitz and glamour of the fashion industry

11:02

, realizing , eh

11:05

, it's anything but

11:07

right , but

11:10

you're still doing it . So how

11:13

, what , what happened ? What switched

11:16

Like ? How were you like ? This is actually even

11:18

better .

11:19

Yeah . So for me , beyond project runway

11:21

, I think , open my eyes to some of that , Love

11:24

the slow fashion side of it , because I feel like it's what

11:26

I know and understand and it's what I

11:29

feel is making a positive

11:31

impact in my industry . So the reason

11:33

I was so conflicted before about doing fashion at all

11:35

was because , you know , I think my parents

11:38

were like , oh , my children are being like this is simple as the

11:40

worst and like you're , this is trivial , as in wasteful

11:42

. But the other part of me was like , but no , like our industry

11:44

, like the fashion industry as a whole , is

11:47

this big bad monster , right , like it's . It's

11:49

responsible for a lot of pollution , just not so much for a

11:51

lot of , you know , a human

11:53

. A lot of human

11:55

capital is wasted and deteriorated and damaged

11:58

. It's one of those . It's the reason for

12:00

a lot of terrible things in the world , you

12:02

know , especially marginalized children and

12:04

basically like literally killing

12:07

people so we can look cute , right ?

12:09

Yeah , and look cute in a different outfit

12:11

every fucking day , which is great , Exactly

12:13

.

12:13

And so our my industry is

12:16

notorious for doing a lot of really bad

12:18

shit , yeah . But there's

12:20

this other side that's like , okay , well , slow fashion . What

12:22

does that mean ? You know , slow fashion is where

12:24

we ethically , honestly

12:27

, thoughtfully , responsibly produce

12:29

garments that people can wear with

12:32

purpose , that can provide

12:34

jobs and give people fair , you

12:36

know living wages and quality of life , that

12:38

promise to create products that are not

12:40

going to , you know , deteriorate and

12:42

break down in the next year . Like , we can , we

12:44

offer free repairs and everything that we make

12:47

for our clients . We offer a buy back program so

12:49

that it doesn't stay in your closet or if it doesn't fit you , you

12:51

can bring it back . And you can , you know we

12:53

can resell it and keep it circular and you can buy new

12:55

product with your credit . Like , we try to think

12:57

of ways that we know we can do

12:59

our best to do the leotard

13:01

right Now . What said

13:03

? There isn't a single fashion brand

13:05

that exists . I don't care how much

13:07

linen you use . I don't care how much you know

13:10

eco-friendly cotton you use . I don't care

13:12

if the fabric you are using is upcycled

13:14

from the underside of your grandmother's bed . Like

13:17

, it doesn't matter what material

13:19

you're using or how eco-friendly you think

13:21

you are . Yes , there's a lot of single fashion brand

13:23

on the planet that is doing

13:25

zero harm . There is no such thing

13:27

as a waste . Yes , Everything

13:30

is waste at some point . There

13:33

could be such thing as less waste or more

13:35

eco-conscious or more sustainable

13:38

, but there's just really no way that

13:40

any of us that are making products that

13:42

are adding to the pile , even if we're upcycling

13:44

stuff we upcycle stuff all the time too . Even

13:46

if we're upcycling stuff , it's still perpetuating

13:48

the yeah , yeah .

13:52

I love this point right . It goes into

13:54

discussion and the broader , almost philosophical

13:57

discussion of how sustainable can you truly

13:59

be and how can you address

14:01

the tension between

14:05

economic growth , which we all

14:07

want as business owners , regardless of service business

14:09

or product base , and

14:11

whatever true sustainability means . Right

14:14

, given that our current economic

14:16

model relies on continuous

14:19

growth ? Right , like

14:21

growth numbers that have to go up , up , up up

14:23

every year because capitalism

14:25

. And like how , how

14:27

do we navigate this tension on

14:30

a very real , practical , day-to-day basis

14:32

?

14:32

Yeah , I think for me , what I've found

14:35

is the best approach is almost like when

14:37

people say things like you know , how do you approach

14:39

the work-life balance ? And I think my

14:44

experience , you know , attaining the work-life balance

14:46

it's just not . It's not attainable

14:49

for me right now in my season , because I'm

14:51

doing a lot and which she out of goal . So

14:53

, yeah , there are some nights where I don't see my kids

14:55

often , or there's some nights where I don't work out , or there are some

14:57

days where I don't eat as well as I like to

14:59

, or there's some days where I don't wake up at 5 or 6

15:01

am Like I would aspire to , you know , like

15:03

there's just that doesn't happen sometimes , and

15:06

so what I try to tell myself is like , okay

15:08

, it can get done tomorrow , it can get done tomorrow , it

15:10

can get done tomorrow , and I have to prioritize in my

15:12

day the three things that I know I need to

15:14

do that , and if I can get that's pretty none

15:16

, then I win and the rest is all

15:18

like you know , a perk , and then if it can't

15:20

get done that day , then it can get the next day . Yes

15:23

and yeah . Well , it has to be done up

15:25

, you know . So it's the same thing with approaching . It's

15:27

a big ability in our lives and you know

15:30

, though , the whole mason jar trash can thing

15:32

like that . I just that works for some people . But

15:34

it's great if it works for you on the whole minimalism

15:36

thing too right , if it works for you is great

15:38

but , yeah , like , I love the idea and I

15:40

think you know I would love for me and my family

15:43

to Evolve to that state

15:45

somehow in a way that works for us , like

15:47

my approach is you know what we ? I always

15:49

say that we are Realists , we're not idealists

15:51

, right ? So what can we

15:53

do in our sphere of influence

15:56

, in our capacity in , yeah , we

15:58

live in , and , and what can we do ? Like , how

16:00

uncomfortable are we willing to make ourselves , right

16:02

? Yeah , like my husband

16:04

and I are just starting this thing called wine ab

16:06

is like , then you need a budget Programmer

16:08

whenever you know . And the way for us to like , could we

16:10

have to ? We have to buy a new car . We weren't planning on

16:13

buying a new car this year , but our old car , just like

16:15

, is tanking and putting money

16:17

into a piece of shit car . That's not gonna let us

16:19

more than a month , and so I okay , well , how

16:21

do we come up with $12 to $15,000 for a

16:23

new used car in 30 days ? Right

16:25

, and so we're using this budget system and I'm

16:27

like you know , at the other day he bought

16:29

like a coffee and a donut for our daughter after he went to

16:31

church , right , and then the next day he bought like

16:33

a slushie for the girls and they went on a walk and I was like dude I'm

16:36

not trying to be the money warden , but like I

16:38

was looking at make accounts in the last few months and collectively

16:41

he spent $600 a month on

16:43

little things like that like Arby's duck and donut

16:45

Starbucks slushies , and I'm like dude

16:48

, like $600 a month . And

16:50

that's like already a good job towards the

16:52

money we eat for the car , yeah , so I was

16:54

like listen , I said be uncomfortable for a little

16:56

bit , but this is the goal we have , right , so let's make

16:58

yourself comfortable . It's the same new sustainability

17:01

. It's like how uncomfortable are you willing to make yourself

17:03

to try something new ? Oh , this is such a good point

17:05

, right , like , like it , could you ? Yeah , instead

17:07

of buying shit at H&M and

17:09

target and from 21 , like , instead

17:11

of buying a new outfit for you know that event

17:13

you have to go to , can you shop or closet , can you shop

17:15

your friends closet ? Can you shop Poshmark

17:18

or marketplace , or can you

17:20

sell some of your old shit before you buy a new

17:22

shit ? You know what I mean . Like , if you

17:24

know , people sometimes tell us like , oh , I love your product

17:26

, I love your business , but it's too expensive

17:28

. And it's like okay , yeah , it might

17:30

be too expensive for for some

17:32

people and yeah , life for right now

17:34

, for the season you ran . The

17:36

word about where we put value . You know what I mean

17:39

. Like , like , my husband spends a

17:41

lot on electronics . I could give two shits about electronics

17:43

. I don't play video games . I have no sin head

17:45

, sin head buds I've had forever and I have , yeah on , keep

17:48

this phone until it dies , right . But you

17:50

know , I put more value

17:52

on experiences , right . So I like to eat

17:54

out . Oh , I'm an experienced vendor too , right , you

17:57

know . Or if I could treat myself to a spa

17:59

day , I'll go a hot stone . I'm like , take

18:01

my money , yeah . And so the thing is like

18:03

, you know , we all put value the things that

18:05

we cherish , right ? So some people now

18:07

realize that maybe it's loading for them , even though it's not a

18:09

current value , maybe it needs to be if they

18:12

want to have a nice purse or they want

18:14

to have nice garment , and if you think about it

18:16

, it's really broken down to cost per wear , right

18:18

. So , yeah , you could get five

18:20

cute dresses at Target , right , for maybe 30 bucks

18:22

each . Okay , that's 150 bucks . Or you

18:24

could spend 184 dollars with me

18:26

and buy one of our jumpsuits . Is gonna last you

18:28

like Five to ten years and

18:31

it has a buyback program . You

18:33

can't yeah , and that like usually has the better

18:36

fit , the better fabric and like and

18:38

you know who made it , you know what I mean , you know where it came

18:40

from . Now and so again , no shade to people

18:42

to shop at Target .

18:43

I shop at Target , no , no , it's not about like

18:45

blaming and shaming , right , like

18:47

I mean , we have to evolve from

18:49

that . That's not , that's just getting people into

18:51

defensive . But I mean , except

18:54

for Shane people Sorry , I

18:56

want to shame Shane people like that . Oh

18:58

yeah , that's that . Shit is insane . I'm serious

19:00

.

19:00

That's what he is doing , but he is

19:02

even taking young designers and their opportunity

19:05

. Actually , there's just like what ? Yeah ?

19:07

Just a rip off what they do from what independent

19:09

artists like . It's bad .

19:11

But anyway , I think you get money on it , like the money that

19:13

they think they're making other people think they're making . It's

19:16

pennies , it's penny .

19:18

Yeah , I , yeah , I don't even want to give this

19:20

this brand platform because , like

19:22

, I'm like no , so I'm so fucking over this

19:24

. But , yeah , like I

19:26

, I , oh , I'm

19:29

still circling back to like , how uncomfortable

19:31

are you willing to get ? Right , it's , it's

19:33

so fucking true , right , like it takes

19:35

you longer to take to , to take a

19:38

train , that to fly . Are you willing

19:40

to feel uncomfortable for that ? Yes

19:42

, it might suck to give up meat for a while . Are

19:44

you willing to kind of like do that and right

19:46

, and also , like I , I

19:48

, when it comes

19:50

to experience spending , like , I had to realize

19:53

at a point where I'm like , no , I

19:55

don't want to like get my nails done and

19:57

Like the cheap place

19:59

where I'm kind of almost sure they're

20:01

ripping people like they're not earning a living

20:04

wage . So I rather go to

20:06

like not a chain brand like , where

20:08

I'm no , I'm sure she's actually live

20:11

, making a living of the service she's

20:13

doing . Hey , or I'm not going

20:15

at all , right , because I'm

20:17

like , well , how , like

20:21

, how can we Like

20:24

it's so interesting , right , we're like talking about like

20:26

, how can we like , how uncomfortable

20:28

are you willing to feel ? But at the

20:30

same time , we're so

20:32

religious to like

20:34

Tune everything out

20:37

. Right , we know that fashion is polluting

20:39

the planet . We know that fashion is Causing

20:43

damage out to especially

20:46

women of color , like we know all this shit

20:48

. This isn't news and which is

20:50

like Right

20:52

, go sharp at H&M and just keep on doing the

20:54

same shit , right it's . It's

20:57

interesting how we , how

21:01

we can like somehow and when

21:04

you get hey , oh , sometimes I'm a sucker for

21:06

getting into Twitter argument or

21:08

X arguments that it's called I'm

21:11

like well , how can your

21:13

uncomfortableness in

21:16

maybe having to spend more time

21:18

while you roll through Poshmark

21:20

or eBay or whatever , how

21:23

is that uncomfortableness worse

21:29

than uncomfortableness of the people making

21:31

your clothes in shitty conditions ? How

21:34

dare you to put that on a scale

21:36

? How dare you to put your uncomfortableness

21:38

on a higher pedestal than

21:41

the people who are actually making your clothes ?

21:44

And I think the problem too is that a lot of people just don't know

21:46

. It really is ignorance , is bliss People

21:49

. Either they just don't know or

21:51

they don't want to know because they really just want to keep shopping

21:54

without feeling guilty .

21:55

Yeah , avoiding cognitive dissonance , and just be like

21:58

, yeah , I don't know .

22:00

Or they just don't even know it's a problem Like

22:02

you'd be surprised at how many people are surprised

22:04

at the truth and the

22:06

real underlying issues and how

22:08

it's like . And then there are a lot of people too that think

22:10

, oh well , I'll just buy second hand , I only buy second hand , that's

22:12

all I do . So I'm doing fine because I only buy second

22:14

hand . But even that in and of itself overconsuming

22:17

anything is never a good thing . So

22:19

, yeah , you would think that , like me , as a business

22:21

owner making clothing , wanting to sell as much

22:23

as I can so I can make as much as I can would

22:26

be like yeah , buy all the things .

22:27

Yeah , the tension of , like our economic

22:30

model of continuous growth .

22:32

And so the thing is like yeah , of course I want you to buy everything

22:34

you can from us , but overconsuming

22:37

one thing is never a good thing and

22:40

there are other things that we're working really hard to figure out

22:42

, other ways that we can still

22:44

grow the business without making more stuff

22:46

. So Cameron offers can

22:49

we have the buyback program ? Can

22:52

we upsell by creating products that are

22:55

maybe a little bit of a higher price point ? So

22:57

we're still growing the revenue , but we're not making more

22:59

product . We're just making better quality or higher

23:01

quality or different levels of yeah . So

23:03

like , yeah , our cardigan , right , and the Pontina

23:06

, but then we also have our classic cardigan and full leather

23:08

. So what are things that we can do ? And

23:11

even then , it's all about going back to being a realist

23:14

and not an idealist , right ? So , yes

23:16

, I want to be doing our

23:18

best by the plan as much as possible , but

23:20

we also want to take into account

23:22

the things that are within our capacity . We

23:25

, just as a small business especially , we don't

23:27

have the bandwidth , we don't have the marketing laws , we don't

23:29

have the horsepower

23:31

to do a lot of the things that bigger corporations

23:33

can do , and oftentimes it feels like

23:36

consumers pull small businesses to

23:38

the same microscopic standards that they

23:40

hold corporations to , and we just don't have

23:42

, or even to a higher

23:44

standard right . Everyone is tiering

23:46

H&M for the buyback program , which is carefully

23:48

greenwashing , and

23:51

then expecting small businesses to

23:53

do at least that , or more

23:55

Right , because we're just a bunch of business

23:57

and corporations are big , bad wool fans like , hey

24:00

, we're here to also make money and also make profits

24:02

so that we can feed our families and grow our

24:05

company and our employees can

24:07

have wages and benefits

24:09

that can support their families . That's not an

24:11

easy to do and I think

24:13

I don't expect consumers to

24:15

retrain themselves or relearn things

24:18

, but I think we do sometimes hope that our consumers

24:20

or that our clients will Well to some extent

24:22

, we all need to do a lot of relearning

24:24

, right , like we .

24:25

Right , I mean even like I don't

24:28

know when was it

24:30

was a day in a year when we kind

24:32

of like have exhausted all of the world's resources for

24:34

the year and like that day has gone like I don't

24:36

know in July or something I don't know . So

24:39

it's like we're clearly living all above our

24:41

means in general . So

24:45

we have to relearn

24:47

a lot of things back , and

24:50

there's some great initiatives

24:53

that are popping up every now and then , right

24:55

Like rebuying or the whole kind of like sharing

24:58

economy where

25:00

you have like reds , right

25:03

. So I'm curious

25:05

, though , like how you

25:07

said about a lot of people you

25:10

sure don't even realize , like kind of like what

25:12

it takes for

25:16

like an ethical small

25:19

fashion , slow fashion business

25:21

, and that kind of like goes into

25:23

the whole thing at the beginning

25:25

. Right , like when you're a service provider , only use a

25:27

laptop and a working internet connection , like off you go

25:29

, and like you

25:31

have much more skin in the game from like the get

25:33

go . Yeah , like how ? Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah

25:35

, yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah . What are

25:37

some of the like ? I don't know if

25:39

you could tell anyone who's listened

25:42

about like five misconceptions of making

25:44

slow fashion of like

25:46

this is really the key three

25:48

things you need to know about

25:50

what it takes to build a slow fashion

25:52

.

25:53

Yeah , I think you know . Just to give them a quick

25:55

snapshot , I mean , we're not setting up

25:57

a studio , right ? So you know , most

25:59

people think of a sewing machine . They think of the small little machine

26:01

that you put on a tabletop , that you know , maybe you had

26:04

as a kid or your grandma's house . Oh

26:06

yeah , that's not going to cut it , yeah

26:08

. So these industrial machines that we

26:10

use , they're anywhere from , you know , 800 to $3,600

26:12

a pop , and you need at least three of them to run an

26:14

operation properly . You need a straight stitch , you need a serger

26:16

. Sometimes you need a walking foot or cover stitch right . But

26:19

then you also need your dress forms . You know your mannequins

26:21

. The mannequins can be anywhere from $500 to $1,200

26:24

, and they're pretty heavy to ship . Sometimes the shipping is just

26:26

as much as the mannequin itself because they're cast out

26:28

. Oh man , let's

26:30

say yeah . Yeah , you need your

26:32

irons , and the irons are usually about one-sixth to three-hundred a piece . You

26:34

know the special gravity feet , irons with , like the feet

26:37

. You know the water reservoir , the oh yeah , yeah , yeah , I

26:39

like the big heavy-duty ones , yeah . And

26:41

then the ironing boards themselves are about a hundred and a fifty . You

26:44

know the pattern table . You can get a pattern . You

26:46

can get a regular pattern table like a hobby

26:48

one if you want , probably like Joann's for

26:50

300 bucks , but the kind of we need . You know

26:52

we have 12 footers that are eight feet wide to accommodate

26:55

fabric rolls . You know we had to have ours custom

26:57

made because you can buy them online for maybe you

26:59

know , $1,000 per , you know per linear foot

27:01

. Or we had ours made for $2,000 . We

27:04

had it made locally and then they had to assemble it for

27:06

another thousand . So we had to repeat three grand just for

27:08

our table . So that's already like what ? One , two

27:10

, three , four , that's like five , six grand

27:12

just in sewing machines , pattern table and dress

27:14

forms . And that's like not human labor

27:16

, nothing , yeah , that's not the labor , that's not your

27:18

cogs , that's nothing . You know . It's not even your

27:20

rent or whatever you need , not

27:23

to include the shipping . You know the software

27:25

you need , you know where you shop and the fabric you

27:27

need , right ?

27:28

You still have not bought any fabric at all

27:30

.

27:31

Yeah . So even though we're buying a whole set of prices , we're still

27:33

spending thousands , like thousands , on

27:35

fabric per month , not per

27:37

year , per month . So and that's the labor

27:39

too , the labor for us , the labor is the part where we

27:41

cannot skimp . You know , we don't skimp because

27:43

we want to make sure that our sewers are making

27:46

, at least for our region . You

27:48

know they're making about 16 to 20 per hour

27:50

on average , depending on their efficiency

27:52

. Right , so we pay . In our industry we pay by the piece

27:54

because we can't pay by the hour , because

27:57

if we pay by the hour then we are

27:59

basically penalizing , you

28:01

know , a sewer who is really really

28:03

fast , you know if it

28:05

makes sense .

28:05

Yes , of course they're making three pieces an hour . Someone

28:08

just makes one .

28:08

Right , exactly . And

28:11

then the sewer , that's , you know , less efficient and less skilled , is making

28:13

more money and that's not fair . So

28:15

, and also in order for us to regulate our pricing , to

28:18

be able to , you know budget and cost

28:20

and that kind of need to know cost per piece , right

28:22

, yeah , at least you know . And there's just a lot that

28:24

goes with it . I mean that's not even including the fees

28:26

for trade shows and retail shows . It's not including , you

28:29

know , the overhead for staffing . I mean

28:31

there's a lot of patterns , oh

28:33

, my gosh , the patterns alone . You know the paper

28:35

itself , but also the pattern grading . Like , yeah

28:37

, pattern grading , that's insane . My hand is spinning

28:40

.

28:40

Right For patterns . I

28:42

would have to get a countless subscription .

28:44

Oh yeah , it's a lot . I mean , and that's the thing too like

28:46

you know , when I talk about consumers , you know being a

28:48

little bit too demanding

28:51

, or or using being so high

28:53

, even when it comes to size inclusivity

28:55

, like , we work damn hard as inclusive as

28:57

we can , and right now we currently go up to 3x

28:59

. We're hoping to add more sizes , which is amazing

29:02

already . Yeah , Like , and I

29:04

know there's a lot coming out there that are

29:06

plus size , that have been burned and been mistreated

29:08

by the fashion industry , and so my I'm raising

29:10

my hands in solidarity . Yes , Like

29:13

it pains me whenever I have women that come into our

29:15

booth . Like we have to . We have to work really hard to make

29:17

sure that women of all sizes know that when

29:19

they shop with us , we can either , if we don't have

29:21

what they're looking for , then we can make it right . But

29:24

a lot of women used to come through our booth and they

29:26

, without even looking at the clothes , without even looking

29:29

at what sizes we have , or even asking , they would just

29:31

say I'm too fat for this , this

29:33

is for skinny people and

29:36

I , so we started making sure that we photographed

29:38

our curvy clients in our garment and

29:40

really work on your brand . They would see it

29:42

and then they would stop , they would look at it . They would

29:44

like I would literally see the gears in their head turning because they would look

29:46

at her , because we have a couple of models , you

29:49

know , q and Jamie , and they'd look at Q , they'd look at

29:51

Jamie , and then they'd be like , where are the clothes

29:53

that fit her , that fit me ? And

29:55

so I would show them . And then they'd be like , they'd be so surprised

29:57

, you know , and it would like really bring me to tears almost , because I

29:59

could see how like , how excited they were

30:01

. But at the same time , we still have something

30:04

. You know , we can't . We can't accommodate everyone yet

30:06

we're doing our best , but there are still

30:08

big brands out there that don't accommodate

30:10

women even up to a 3X . And so

30:12

no , yeah , or if they do .

30:14

Like the patterns I'm

30:17

looking at UHNM , Right Right

30:19

, the patterns are so

30:21

ridiculous . Like I don't , I

30:24

have no idea what they take as a model . Like

30:26

they just probably do the size

30:28

zero or 10 or whatever , and then it just

30:31

make it scale up , which is

30:34

not how it works . I mean , I'm not a fashion

30:36

designer , but I'm pretty sure that's not how

30:38

it works .

30:39

Yeah , because women hold their weight in all the different

30:41

places , and so it is definitely an art . And

30:43

I would say the thing is too that people don't understand

30:45

is that even pattern grading like we're , you

30:47

know , we can't do that ourselves because it's almost

30:49

like a science . You need special software . It's very mathematical

30:52

. If you can , you can , you can put it up really easily

30:54

, and so we have a pattern grader that we have to pay

30:56

, that can grade our patterns for us . Oh , okay , we'll

30:58

specialize to wow , yeah

31:01

, it's just , you can take our extra small , small patterns

31:03

and make the medium large , xl2x3x

31:05

, whatever . But it's a very specific science

31:08

and art . So you know , to

31:10

pay for that I mean for one style to get

31:12

a pattern graded sometimes can be anywhere from $300

31:15

to $600 , then to get it printed in

31:17

a printed triplet you know , because we have sewers

31:19

in Chicago , we have sewers here in Cleveland , we have sewers in Parma

31:21

like we have to get patterns printed in triplets

31:23

that's going to cost another couple of hundred dollars and that's

31:26

for one style . We have almost

31:28

, I want to say like a hundred plus skews

31:30

that we make . So do the math

31:32

on that , you know . So a lot of people think oh well , you think

31:34

that and you , some people assume

31:36

that you know small brands like

31:38

us don't add sizes because we don't

31:40

want to . But that's not it . It's just because

31:43

of capacity , like it's , extensive , yeah

31:45

, more than that .

31:46

You know , like that , don't lead like , because

31:48

they don't want you . That's what you can tell the big ones

31:51

. They have all the resources

31:53

. They just don't want to have . They just don't want to see fat

31:55

people in your clothes .

31:57

Well , not just that , they also just don't want to spend the money . You know what

31:59

I mean . Yeah , they're just going to still care . Well

32:01

, under the research , they don't think that the Caribbean women don't want

32:03

cute clothes and so they don't bother with it

32:05

, you know , and it's like . It's like going to a restaurant

32:08

, right , like , if you go to bakery , you don't go to

32:10

bakery expecting to order ramen noodles , right

32:12

, you know . You don't go to a Mexican restaurant expecting to

32:14

order , you know , I don't know if you should , right

32:17

, yeah , sushi . So like , every

32:19

place has its specialty , and so I'm not saying

32:21

that all fashion brands can only make straight sizes

32:23

, but the brands that are doing

32:25

straight sizes and plus sizes , it's

32:28

the special , it's definitely

32:30

. Yeah , yeah , right , absolutely

32:32

Like .

32:32

I mean , I don't personally don't

32:35

care that , I don't know

32:37

. Chanel is the will never

32:39

do close sizes , which is fine , right

32:41

, and I didn't .

32:42

Carl , carl , I don't know if I had a props to

32:44

work . He was the worst , totally , totally that . Though , and

32:46

yeah , oh , my god , yeah , you know it . It

32:49

makes sense that some of these brands would

32:51

do that , and that's exactly why one of the reasons

32:53

why I couldn't go into that part of the industry Like

32:55

, I had a project runway . You

32:57

know , after a couple , a year or two , they , they , they

32:59

sometimes would invite you back to , like , go to the

33:01

runway event , you know where they have , you know

33:03

, yeah , and so a few years after I did

33:05

it , you know , they invited me back because I was still

33:07

, like you know , considered like fresh meat

33:10

, right , and then , when I did all stars , they invited me back

33:12

again , and I remember I went back one year to

33:14

attend with my friend Mondo , who was on my season

33:17

, and it just felt I couldn't

33:19

wait to get back to Cleveland , like I like

33:21

New York , I like visiting . I was like I could never live there I'm

33:23

just not cut out for it but it

33:25

felt like everyone was sizing each other up and

33:28

everyone was asking well , who are you dressing now and who are

33:30

you working with now , and what celebrities have you , you know

33:32

, made , you know for . And

33:34

then you know some people that you'd met before that

33:36

you thought you know you had a significant impact

33:39

on , are people that you think would remember . You didn't

33:41

remember you and you're like , oh , hey , joanna , and

33:43

then she'd be like , you know , when you're like , okay , cool

33:45

, cool , cool , like you know . So , yeah , well

33:48

, like , it was a very like um , self

33:50

serving very like shallow part

33:53

of the industry that I just

33:55

didn't want to . It sounded also very elbow

33:57

pushy , like yeah , yeah , exactly

33:59

, it didn't , it didn't , it didn't appeal to me . Because

34:01

I like , like , I love the face time I get

34:03

with my client . I love when we do

34:05

a retail show and you know

34:08

, uh , melissa from Detroit

34:10

, michigan , buys three dresses

34:12

and she literally comes out of the dressing room clapping because

34:14

she didn't think she could find a dress that

34:16

made her feel as good as she felt in hours

34:18

. You know , good , because you know we have

34:21

a client , samantha , you know , who

34:23

bought a couple of pieces of ours the

34:25

previous year and she came to our booth and was like

34:27

you know what , when I wear your cardigans , I negotiate

34:29

higher for myself in my job . When I'm , you

34:31

know , like , like , it's that kind of stuff .

34:33

Yeah , Just like the confidence

34:35

when you wear it . I think that truly fits

34:37

you and you don't end at locking MF tucking everywhere

34:40

, Right ?

34:41

and it's not about you know , if

34:44

you look better than the person next to you or

34:46

if you're higher status than the person

34:48

behind you at that fashion event , or if you

34:51

got front-row seating and so did like . It's not about

34:53

Keeping up with the Joneses or the Kardashians

34:55

or whoever . It's about you and

34:57

how you feel you're wearing and how it's going to help

34:59

you live your best life . You know ? Yeah .

35:02

How you were feeling when you wear this , how you

35:04

You're acting differently

35:06

, how you think differently of yourself .

35:08

Oh yeah , like people always say , you are what you eat , right ? Well

35:10

, you're totally . You are what you wear . You know like

35:12

you dress for the job you want . That's , that's

35:15

so true , and so many senses of the phrase

35:17

you know , yeah , I mean it's say

35:19

what do you want ?

35:20

right there , people who are like , oh , I don't care about fashion

35:22

at all , and that that is fine , right

35:24

, but we know Science

35:28

, no , science tells you that the first

35:30

impression you leave . If someone

35:32

sees you for the first time , first

35:34

impression matters , and Clothing

35:37

is such a big part of that

35:39

. Oh yeah , and yes

35:41

, I mean we all stereotype

35:44

and we're all like getting it wrong sometime

35:46

. But you just sending out

35:49

a message , right ? And and I always

35:51

say to my brand clients

35:53

, right Like , you're sending out a message anyway

35:55

, regardless of how you brand

35:57

, how you dress , how you wear makeup or not

35:59

. Right , like , just make

36:01

sure that what you're kind of like sending

36:04

out , like what you're like building , what you're

36:06

like the architect job

36:08

, is like on

36:10

purpose , by design and not just by

36:12

choice or luck or coincidence .

36:15

I'm not gonna have to like think about like you're doing a

36:17

pandemic where we were all wearing pajamas so

36:19

, as meetings are all went , like

36:23

, think about how we spell right . Like

36:25

, do you feel more productive when you know

36:27

You're showered and you have makeup

36:29

on and you're dressed like in your favorite outfit

36:31

, you know ? Do you feel more accomplished

36:34

, more ready to take on the world ? Or when

36:36

you're wearing your pajamas sitting at your desk ? You

36:38

know , in your work-from-home day , like , do you feel just

36:40

like ? You know like going back to bed , do

36:42

you feel like snacking every half hour ? Do you feel

36:44

like watching Netflix or do you feel like skipping out

36:46

on work ? You know like both

36:48

scenarios are fine . You know what I mean , oh God

36:50

.

36:50

Yes , and I mean , I know people like are

36:53

Super killing it . And a yoga pen

36:55

, Right , I know this is

36:58

I could I ? Even

37:00

during the pandemic I got up and and

37:02

dressed , and got dressed because I know

37:04

the yoga pants . Life it's

37:06

not for me , right , right , well

37:08

yeah , like no , I'm

37:12

not .

37:12

I'm not one of those people that's like women have to dress like

37:14

women , or you have to be polished every

37:16

day . Like I'm lucky if I get makeup on my face

37:19

, like once a month you know what I mean . And

37:21

like when I have a meeting to go to or a networking event , you

37:23

better believe . Like I'm gonna be , my hair's gonna be done

37:25

. What else the makeup I'm gonna like dress

37:27

like I know what I'm doing . I'm not a designer because

37:29

as a fashion designer , I have to look the part . Like

37:31

I can't sell you a car if I

37:33

have a shitty car . I can't cut . Commit to that . I can

37:35

cut your hair , well , if I have a shitty haircut myself

37:37

. So , like if I'm trying to sell you style and

37:39

sell you confidence and sell you what I'm

37:42

making , I have to look like I know what I'm talking

37:44

about , which I think I do not today . Today

37:46

, I don't like I'm just I came from a workout , okay , but

37:48

like you know what I mean . I guess the thing is like yeah

37:50

, right , but it is , it's all it's .

37:52

It's kind of like the first layer , right

37:54

Like it . It helps

37:56

you to bring a certain point

37:59

across and especially

38:01

when you just have like teeny

38:03

tiny split second of convincing people

38:05

that they should stay On your website

38:07

, on your boob , looking

38:09

at your face , whatever it is , until

38:12

they're like uh board moving on right

38:14

on you and then you

38:16

gotta actually follow up with your . I

38:18

know what I'm talking about .

38:20

Oh , oh , yeah , well , and I that . But you know

38:22

, there's a lot of studies that show that when you're wearing

38:25

, um , when , when you're wearing

38:27

something that makes you feel confident , or when you're still getting what you're

38:29

wearing , you're a lot more decisive

38:31

, you're a lot more assertive , you're a lot

38:33

more Uh , you're

38:36

a lot more able to focus , you're a lot more Heated

38:39

. So , like that , that bro that approached me and said

38:41

yeah , whenever I wear your cardigans , I negotiate higher

38:43

for myself . Like that's what we want

38:45

. Like that , that's that's our why . Right , like we

38:47

don't make clothes because it was the only thing I was good

38:49

at . We don't make clothes because it was fun and

38:51

we like shopping . We make clothes because

38:54

we saw it as a vehicle to help women achieve

38:56

more in their careers , achieve more in their industries

38:58

, achieve more in their families and their households

39:00

. To be able to have a seat at the f***ing table . You

39:02

know what I mean . Like people are always talking about

39:04

having a seat at the table , but like sometimes there

39:07

isn't a seat available , so you have to what's left of

39:09

what you have to make your own table right ? Like

39:11

, uh , we can get there by

39:13

taking the stress out of what's already stressful

39:15

. Right , shopping is stressful . Finding the right jeans is

39:17

stressful .

39:18

Yeah , I had a lot of stress for all that , actually

39:20

especially , yeah , and I mean especially Wall

39:23

slides , for sure . I mean I

39:26

don't think currently there is any shop

39:28

at the highest , like on our local high street

39:30

, where I could actually like physically shop

39:32

, because we have been abandoned

39:35

from the darkest corner of

39:37

the shop to exclusively

39:39

online , which

39:42

is like fine , but if you need something

39:44

, yeah , for the moment .

39:48

It's hard , yeah . And if you think about it too , think

39:50

about the struggles that women face already

39:52

in the workplace , in corporate

39:54

America and climbing the corporate ladder

39:56

and breaking the glass ceiling what have you ? There's

39:59

already so many struggles that we have to face

40:01

, Maybe uncomfortable because we're afraid

40:03

that our panty lens are showing or our pants too tight

40:05

or is our cleavage too low . We

40:08

shouldn't have to worry about those things , because men sure as hell

40:11

don't . And that's also one

40:13

of the reasons why

40:15

men have climbed faster than us is because of patriarchy

40:18

. They

40:20

were afforded the opportunities that were afforded

40:22

. But now we can kick ass just as much

40:24

and we shouldn't let what we're wearing infringe

40:27

on that right . So if

40:30

yellow cake can dress you comfortably , dress

40:32

you stylishly , dress you well and

40:34

keep you within your budget , and you can

40:36

be comfortable doing that , and you can also still

40:38

wear that to your vacation , to your girls

40:41

night out , to your daughters graduation , we're

40:43

not having to buy five different wardrobes to

40:46

live all the aspects and the avenues of your life

40:48

, and then you're not having to do

40:50

too much laundry , you're not having to get all the dry fine done

40:52

. You have the one wardrobe . It can suit

40:54

you as you need , yeah , and it focus on everything

40:56

else in your life . You know the kids and the

40:58

PTA and the volunteer stuff and the wine club

41:01

and the workouts and , and you know

41:03

, growing in your career , and so for

41:05

us , that's , that's our why is we want to help

41:07

more ? Because we believe that women should , should

41:10

, be like skyrocketing . Like women

41:12

have we waited too long in the wings

41:14

for our turn , and it's

41:16

about damn time you know so it's

41:19

about damn time .

41:20

There's no , there's no better fucking way

41:22

to end this . There's great , it's about that time . I

41:25

, I wholeheartedly agree and

41:27

, yeah , like I seriously I

41:29

love your message and I really

41:32

hope this is kind of like the legacy that

41:35

you with

41:37

your business , that you kind of leave in the

41:39

fashion industry and we just need more

41:41

, more people have like , especially

41:44

now where we see so many indie bands close

41:46

, indie brands closing down , it's

41:50

tough as fuck . I

41:53

just I don't know if you don't know what's

41:55

the week , or like once a month , I go on my

41:57

website of Indian fashion brands . I like

41:59

like , oh , closing down sale

42:02

, or like letter from the founder

42:04

and you're like , oh , this

42:06

ain't good . So , yeah

42:09

, I go go support shop

42:11

local , go support your indie makers

42:13

. Like I love , this is about them , fucking time

42:16

. I

42:18

have one last question Before

42:21

I kind of like leave you , leave you

42:23

be . What book are you currently

42:25

reading ?

42:26

Oh well , I just finished this book by

42:29

Chris Powell called Never Split the Difference

42:31

. Oh

42:33

yeah , he was the well known FBI

42:35

negotiator and he just talks

42:38

about what that sounds interesting

42:40

. I have a book to do it . It's really good . And

42:42

I love I do audio books . I

42:44

can't like I don't have the focus of the . That's fine

42:46

, I love book , but

42:48

I love audio books so that can listen to them while I'm running

42:50

or while I'm doing dishes , while I'm

42:52

driving and so

42:54

so , yeah , it's a really good book . He talks a lot

42:57

about how a lot of the techniques and tactics

42:59

he uses in negotiating hostage situations

43:01

or negotiating , you know , bank robberies

43:03

and kidnappings , you know he . He talks about how

43:05

a lot of those can be applied to any area of your

43:08

life , whether it's your marriage or

43:10

your friendships or even your business , you know

43:12

. Okay , I've got to put this on

43:14

my pile . It's really great , it's

43:16

really interesting to . He just talks about simple things

43:18

that you can do , you know , even like , if

43:20

you're trying to buy a new car , right , so like I'm

43:22

trying to buy .

43:24

Oh , like out for the sales , the car

43:26

sales guy , which is like , yeah , entry

43:28

level negotiation skills .

43:30

Yeah , like you want to use questions , like clarifying questions

43:33

, like to start with what or how you

43:35

don't want to use do can Right

43:37

, you want to also make this . The

43:39

negotiation you're trying to press towards me gets

43:41

to like it's their idea , but then also like that's

43:43

always yes , that's always kind

43:45

of the table with with 65%

43:47

of what you're willing to pay , right , and then

43:50

that way , it gives you , you know , incremental

43:52

increases , yes , it , you finally make

43:54

it Offer . I think that the commando

43:56

so yeah , it's really cool

43:58

. Then there's also stuff I'm reading about Gretchen

44:01

Rubin . She has a really called the

44:03

four tendencies . Yes , she also has a very podcast

44:06

. Yeah , she's great . She talks about

44:08

, you know , the , which is your tendency ? I

44:11

don't know . Really . I think that I am definitely

44:13

more of the rebel . I didn't think I was that , though

44:15

I thought was more of an obliger , but I think I'm a rebel

44:17

obliger . My husband is definitely

44:20

, I think , a questioner obliger

44:22

.

44:23

I'm a rebel . I cannot even fuck with an I

44:25

it .

44:25

I'm like what is it ? Rebel questioner

44:28

, obliger . What was the other one , though ? The was

44:30

the one that does everything on time and yeah , yeah

44:32

, yeah , oh , I forgot , but yeah , that one

44:34

, it's gonna kill the woman . But

44:36

my husband is , he's really good with schedules

44:38

and he's always on time and no one needs to tell him to be

44:40

anywhere on time and like I'm never on time and

44:43

so , yeah , I , that's

44:45

just how I mean , I've accepted it , but I'm also

44:47

trying really hard to to grow and

44:49

learn and do better , you know .

44:51

But that's , that's . That's the thing

44:53

. Right , we're all . We're all . We're

44:55

all fine , we're all doing our best here . So

44:58

, valerie , where can , where

45:00

can we find you ? Where can we learn

45:02

more about Yellow Cake Shop , like , tell

45:05

me where you hang out ?

45:05

online , so you can

45:07

find us at yellowcakeshopcom . It's

45:10

just like it sounds the dessert plus

45:12

SHOP . It's the American spelling

45:14

of shop , not the British spelling , so it's yellowcakeshopcom

45:18

. Or you can find us on Instagram at Yellow Cake

45:20

Shop or on Facebook at Yellow

45:22

Cake Shop CLE .

45:24

We're also always . Of course , everything will

45:26

be linked in the show notes . So

45:29

, Valerie , thank you so much for

45:31

this peek behind the curtain of the

45:33

slow fashion industry . Thank you so much , Yep

45:35

. Thanks for having me .