One of the most enduring phrases at the heart of American exceptionalism is John Winthrop's famous proclamation that the Puritan colonists were establishing a "city upon a hill." But the story of this lay sermon is much more complicated, and, according to Bancroft-winning historian Daniel Rogers, Winthrop was not being triumphalist, but instead a statement of anxiety. Dr. Rogers joins us to discuss his new book on the sermon and its endurance, As a City on a Hill. Sponsored by the Lyndhurst Group (lyndhurstgroup.org) and Jennings College Consulting (drj4college.com).Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices