0:04

A study in 2019 predicted that a nationwide

0:07

nursing shortage would continue to spread

0:09

across the country through 2030

0:11

. What's the problem and what's being

0:13

done about it ? I'm Mike Landis . Ut

0:15

Tyler Radio connects with School of Nursing Dean

0:17

, dr Barbara Haas , to find out . Now . You've

0:20

just been appointed to a state committee that's

0:22

going to be looking for answers .

0:24

Yes , that's correct , just been appointed to a state committee

0:26

that's going to be looking for answers . Yes

0:29

, that's correct . This committee has actually looking at refining an existing rule in which

0:31

the coordinating board has funded schools of nursing to

0:35

help with enrollment and retention .

0:37

Well , yeah , exactly . The issue is that even

0:39

when nurse retirements and workforce

0:41

exits are factored in , the Bureau of Labor

0:43

Statistics of Labor Statistics projects

0:47

that more than 203,000 openings

0:49

for RNs will happen each year through 2031

0:52

. What is the UT Tyler School

0:54

of Nursing doing to help meet that need ?

0:57

Oh goodness . Well , we've got several initiatives

0:59

going , Some of them we've made to be talked about

1:01

in the past . Mike , we went

1:03

to a year-round program so we could admit many more students

1:06

each year . We offer

1:08

some programs online for students

1:10

who are geographically bound so that they're

1:12

able to return to school . We're

1:14

starting new programs to get more people in

1:16

. So there's several things that we're doing as a school

1:19

of nursing to address the shortage , but

1:21

the shortage is a nationwide problem

1:23

and there's a lot of factors that are contributing

1:25

to it . Such as Well

1:28

, for example , the

1:30

number of college-age

1:32

students is taking a sharp decline starting

1:35

in 2025 . And we know

1:37

that over the next four to five years

1:39

we're going to see a 15% decline in

1:41

college enrollment across the country , across all

1:43

disciplines , not just nursing . So

1:45

we're seeing this very sharp cliff where the

1:47

numbers of students going to college is going to be much

1:49

lower because there's just fewer

1:52

. There was a population

1:54

decrease at that time , so there's

1:56

fewer students eligible to go to school and

1:59

there's less faith in

2:01

higher education than there used to be , because

2:04

there's so many opportunities for really good careers

2:06

that don't require a college education

2:08

any longer . So even those who are

2:11

eligible to go to school aren't necessarily returning

2:13

to school .

2:14

But nursing to some extent from my perspective

2:17

, for whatever that's worth is

2:19

somewhat of a calling .

2:21

It is . Yet across

2:23

the country nursing enrollments are

2:26

down and particularly for a couple of the

2:28

programs , the BSN

2:30

programs . The Bachelor of Nursing

2:32

Science is still fairly strong and

2:35

has stayed fairly level this past year . The

2:38

American Association of Colleges in Nursing just

2:40

released a report yesterday , april

2:43

15th , that

2:45

looked at the numbers of students in

2:47

different programs across the country and

2:49

, as I said , the BSN has stayed fairly stable

2:51

. Very slight increase

2:54

, like 0.3% . Perhaps it

2:56

had had a dip the year before . But

2:59

programs like the RN

3:01

to BSN completion program has taken a

3:03

very significant drop in enrollment

3:05

and a lot of the master's degrees

3:07

and graduate degrees are taking dips . So

3:11

there's concern for the advanced practice .

3:13

Big challenges there . Let's go back to the committee

3:15

thing we were talking about earlier . There's an old joke

3:17

about a camel being a racehorse created by

3:19

a committee . Do you have confidence that

3:21

this 19-member committee is going to be able to come up

3:23

with some substantive solutions

3:25

to what you're facing ?

3:27

Well , the committee is an advisory committee

3:30

, so we can only make suggestions , and

3:32

we had a day-long meeting and

3:34

I think it was productive . We

3:36

had several thoughts about how the program

3:39

could be improved to make it more accessible to

3:41

more programs that would give more support

3:43

to schools of nursing across the state .

3:47

The UT Regents supported your nursing school

3:49

to the tune of $35 million for

3:51

improvement and expansion , and that expansion

3:53

is going up right outside our studios

3:55

. If you listen closely , it's out there . Groundbreaking

3:58

was a year ago , april . Is it on schedule

4:00

?

4:01

It is on schedule . We're so excited we should

4:03

be moving into the new building later

4:06

this summer , hopefully late July or early

4:08

August . Now that's only the first floor

4:10

of the new addition that will be completed , but

4:13

that's an important part , because that is the new

4:15

simulation center and all of our skills

4:17

lab and health assessment labs .

4:19

That must be very , very exciting for

4:21

you .

4:21

It is very exciting . It must be very , very

4:24

exciting for you . It

4:28

is very exciting and it really will increase our capacity to have more students in simulated environments

4:30

, which is very important to prepare people before they go take care of patients in the

4:32

real world .

4:33

In the real world . Yeah , Tell us about the benefits

4:35

of the new addition , the complete addition

4:37

, not just that first floor .

4:39

Well , it'll be another year

4:41

before the second floor is completed at

4:43

least another year and then also the

4:45

remodel of the existing older building . But once everything

4:48

is completed we

4:50

will have space not only for a

4:52

much larger simulation area

4:55

, but then there'll be more space on

4:58

the second floor for student engagement with

5:00

the community education

5:02

research data analytics

5:04

lab . So a lot of activity

5:06

is going to go on in that new building .

5:08

Tell me about the connection between the new

5:10

medical school that's being built , the School of Medicine

5:12

, and the nursing school . How

5:15

closely will you work with those folks ? I see their

5:17

buildings going up too . How closely

5:19

will you be working with those folks ? We

5:21

have the first class going and the second class is

5:23

about to be announced . Tell us more about

5:25

that .

5:26

Well across all health professions

5:28

, not just medicine and nursing , but also our

5:30

College of Pharmacy

5:32

and our School of Health Professions . And

5:34

within health professions we have things like public

5:36

health and occupational therapy , speech-language

5:39

pathology and hopefully we'll

5:41

have physical therapy in the future . So

5:44

all of those health professions come together and we meet

5:46

on a regular basis already the deans do , along

5:49

with our executive vice president for health affairs , and

5:51

we have what's called interprofessional

5:53

education . So activities

5:56

are planned both in a classroom setting where

5:58

the students across those disciplines can work

6:00

together , solve problems , do case

6:02

studies , and then we also have a component

6:04

where the students are out in the community , volunteering

6:07

, doing service projects again working

6:09

together .

6:12

Tell us about the benefits and

6:14

challenges to retention in

6:16

the nursing field these days . Are they the same

6:18

that they've always been , or are there mitigating

6:21

factors now that make it tougher ?

6:24

Wow , that is a great question . Retention

6:26

has always been an issue . I think

6:28

it's probably .

6:29

Is it because of burnout ?

6:31

It is because of burnout and interestingly

6:33

, everyone assumes that it is salaries

6:36

, and certainly salaries play a part of it

6:38

than

6:46

the salaries , it's whether the nurses who are employed are feeling valued and

6:48

heard and respected and engaged , that they're

6:50

a part of something , and so

6:53

a lot of the organizations are doing things to

6:55

acknowledge the importance of nurses

6:57

. You

7:00

know , nurses have been the most trusted profession

7:03

for over 20 years now , so

7:05

they're respected and trusted

7:07

and yet they

7:10

don't get the same accolades as some

7:12

of the other health professions , and

7:15

it isn't that we expect them to be . Oh , there

7:17

goes our heroes again , which happened during the pandemic

7:19

.

7:19

Absolutely . They were heroes and they were heroes

7:22

.

7:22

They were , and now they're still doing

7:24

that same work , but no one looks at them as heroes

7:26

anymore , so it's just kind of an expectation

7:28

. So I think it's a difficult , very

7:31

complex problem and I

7:33

wish I had an answer , because if I did I'd probably

7:35

be a really wealthy woman . Yes

7:40

, you would . But I guess I'll say this Everyone

7:46

is working on trying to solve that problem , to make workloads

7:49

more reasonable , to make that life-work

7:51

balance more reasonable , to give people more

7:55

autonomy . That's an important

7:57

part of what nurses

7:59

value in their work life , because

8:02

they are highly educated and they want to be able

8:04

to put that education to use .

8:06

Gosh for a lot of people if they

8:08

haven't had someone in the hospital or had medical

8:11

issues in which they were dealing with the health

8:13

profession on a regular basis . Most

8:15

of their information comes from TV shows . I

8:18

mean , this must be how that really works

8:20

, and there's always a

8:22

constant tension , it seems like , between nurses

8:24

and doctors . Are docs getting

8:26

the message that they

8:28

need these people and they need to change their attitudes

8:31

?

8:31

Oh , I don't think doctors are the problem . I really

8:33

don't .

8:34

Okay , I think that the— See , I'm getting

8:36

my information from TV too , from .

8:37

TV . No , I think our medical

8:39

colleagues highly respect their

8:42

nursing colleagues that they work with . Now

8:44

, maybe not 100% , but no profession

8:47

is 100% right . But I think overall the

8:49

physicians recognize the importance of the nurses

8:51

and they value value . Our

8:53

own president Calhoun , you know , has said

8:56

over and over again you know , smart physician

8:58

will recognize the good nurses

9:00

because the

9:02

nurses are those eyes and ears

9:04

and you know they make the decisions

9:06

up front . Shall I call a physician or shouldn't

9:09

I ? Is this something I can handle , or should I get

9:11

a new order ? Or do I need a new order ? And

9:13

I know I was in the teaching hospital many

9:15

, many years ago and I remember having

9:17

to call those residents and they'd

9:20

say , well , what should I do ? And I'd have to tell them well

9:22

, I really need an order for XYZ , because

9:24

I'd been in practice a long time and I knew what was needed

9:26

. But they had the authority to do that . So

9:29

they work side by side

9:31

and it's an important relationship

9:34

. But I don't feel like for

9:36

the most part , physicians don't recognize

9:38

that . So I don't see

9:41

that that is really the issue .

9:44

Is it a cultural issue ?

9:47

Well , as you pointed out , I think there's a lot of misunderstanding

9:49

about what is it that nurses do , and

9:51

television shows do not help , because

9:54

it is not accurate , it just isn't

9:56

.

9:57

There's no TV show called the Nurses , it's

10:00

the Doctors .

10:01

Exactly , and the nurses

10:03

are kind of in the background .

10:08

I mean it's unrealistic for everybody .

10:10

I mean the physicians , the way they're portrayed . That

10:12

is not how a physician spends his or her day transporting

10:23

patients to x-ray .

10:23

It's just so not real . Tell me what STAT stands for . I've always wondered that when somebody

10:26

yells STAT , what does that mean ? S-t-a-t , I guess that's what

10:28

it is .

10:29

Great question . I don't know .

10:33

You need to watch more television . It means right away

10:35

.

10:35

But whether it's an acronym , I don't

10:37

know .

10:38

I don't know either .

10:40

It means immediately .

10:42

I got that part of it . I was pretty sure that was true

10:45

Code blue . There we go , all

10:47

right . So how many nurses are expected to graduate

10:49

this year from this facility here on the UT

10:51

Tyler campus and how many do you hope to

10:53

graduate in the coming years ?

10:56

Well , what I'd like to say ? We'd hope to graduate

10:59

about 600 undergraduates

11:01

a year , because that's

11:04

about how many we admit every year . Now

11:06

they don't all make it and we

11:08

would like them to , and that's why a lot of effort has

11:10

been put into retention , because if

11:12

they're good enough to get in , we would

11:14

think they'd be good enough to finish . But life

11:16

gets in the way . Maybe sometimes they see

11:18

the real world oh

11:25

, it's not like it is on TV , so they change their mind . So we'd like to see at least 600

11:27

undergraduates and then , with a graduate program , probably

11:30

another 200 to 300

11:32

graduates . Now we are really

11:34

growing our graduate programs , although those numbers

11:36

are declining across the country . At

11:39

UT Tyler our numbers of graduate students

11:41

are increasing .

11:42

Oh , that's nice it is . That's good to hear . Yes , what's

11:44

the best kept secret about the UT Tyler

11:46

School of Nursing ? What don't people know

11:48

that you'd like for them to know ?

11:51

Well , I think there's a lot of things that people don't know about us

11:53

, mike to know

11:55

. Well , I think there's a lot of things that people don't know about us , mike . But one

11:57

of the things they may not realize is how highly respected this

11:59

program is across the state and the nation . We

12:03

have a very high pass rate

12:05

on our NCLEX scores . That's for the undergraduates

12:07

to become registered nurses . So

12:09

our most recent class is somewhere between

12:12

97 and 98% pass rate , well

12:14

above the national average and

12:16

well above the state average as well . Our

12:18

advanced practice nurses their

12:21

pass rates on their certification exams is 100%

12:24

.

12:24

Wow .

12:24

And that includes both the family nurse practitioner

12:27

and the psychiatric mental health nurse practitioners . So

12:30

our programs are excellent

12:32

. So that's one thing . We

12:34

are also very innovative . We're

12:37

the first in the country not the first in the country , I'm sorry

12:39

the first in the state to offer the preceptor

12:42

program . That was many years ago and that spread

12:44

throughout the state . We were the first

12:46

.

12:46

What is a preceptor ?

12:47

program , addition to having

12:50

the faculty making rounds with the students

12:52

and spending the day with them , and the facilities

12:54

that currently licensed

12:56

registered nurses serve

12:59

as their mentor , their

13:01

coach , while they're in the hospital . So

13:03

they pair up and have a

13:06

close relationship built . So

13:09

we were the first in the state to do that

13:11

. We were the

13:14

third program in the country to do

13:16

an online PhD program

13:18

in nursing , and now that

13:20

has spread and most programs have gone online

13:22

. There are still some that are solely face-to-face , but

13:24

even those that have a face-to-face

13:27

component are often a hybrid where they have some online

13:29

, some face-to-face . We

13:32

were one of the first to go year-round

13:34

face-to-face

13:38

. We were one of the first to go year-round , and now several programs in the state are

13:40

switching to a year-round nursing program because we can

13:42

admit more students that way and we can get them out faster

13:44

, both of which will help address that nursing

13:46

shortage . So we've been

13:49

innovative in that way . We've been innovative in the

13:51

types of programs we offer . I'd love

13:53

to talk to you about our critical care pathway sometime

13:55

because we're doing some real exciting things there

13:57

. So we're

14:00

innovative in that we are a strengths-based program

14:02

. What that means is every student who

14:05

comes into our program . They are evaluated

14:07

for their strengths , their natural talents , and

14:09

we like to build upon that and recognize

14:12

that , although people have different

14:14

talents , they're all important , they all contribute

14:16

to the team , they're all important and

14:18

not just point out like , oh , you need to fix this

14:20

, do this better . But you

14:22

know , you've got this real skill set at XYZ

14:25

, so let's invest in that and

14:27

make it even better because you can shine in this area

14:29

. So we have that kind of a focus

14:31

area . So we have that kind of a focus

14:34

. Our newest thing this is hot off

14:36

the press starting this fall , we are going

14:38

to be admitting students directly to the BSN

14:41

program , and most places

14:43

you have to go to what's called a pre-nursing

14:45

program where you're admitted , you have to do all

14:47

these prerequisites and then you may or may not get into

14:49

the program . Well , what that does

14:51

is it sets students up to spend two

14:53

years of their life taking all the courses they need to

14:56

get into nursing , and then maybe there's not room and

14:58

they don't get in . And now what do they do ? So

15:00

instead , what we're doing is we're going to say , from

15:03

the minute you walk in as a freshman at UT Tyler

15:05

, you are already in the nursing program and

15:07

we are going to have courses that start

15:10

at the end of the freshman year and throughout the sophomore

15:12

year , that are more introductory courses

15:14

, so they can start learning about what is

15:16

nursing like because it's not like TV

15:19

and so make sure that this is really the career

15:21

they want and then

15:23

give them that a little bit

15:25

of exposure and then have milestones

15:28

along the way . So before they can start

15:30

clinicals they have to maintain these milestones . They

15:32

have to maintain a certain grade point average . They

15:34

have to do well in certain courses , these science

15:36

courses that are so foundational to what

15:38

we do . So that

15:42

is going to be a game changer , I think

15:44

, for a lot of students , because

15:46

we hope that it would help with retention . It

15:49

would help identify those students early who

15:51

might be struggling and need more assistance , identify

15:54

those students early who might be struggling and

15:56

need more assistance . And

15:58

it would help students who perhaps really didn't know what nursing was and it really wasn't

16:00

cut out for it , help them identify early that I'd like to go a different

16:02

direction . And maybe what I really wanted to

16:04

do is get a degree in business

16:07

, so I

16:10

think it's a win-win-win for everybody .

16:13

Any final thoughts you'd like to share ?

16:17

Only that . I would hope that your listeners

16:19

would remember how nurses

16:21

are just really that backbone of health

16:24

care . And when you think about when

16:27

you're born , who's there ? It's

16:29

a nurse , right . And

16:32

then all through your life there's nurses in the school

16:34

, in your industries , in

16:36

the hospitals , of

16:38

course . But who's holding

16:40

your hand when you die ? It's often a nurse

16:42

. So the nurses are there from birth to death

16:45

and everywhere in between .

16:47

Thanks for listening as UT Tyler Radio connects

16:49

with Dr Barbara Haas , Dean of the UT

16:51

Tyler School of Nursing . For UT

16:53

Tyler Radio News , I'm Mike Landis .