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in Summit County , northeast

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Ohio , across the United States

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and even across the world

2:03

across the United

2:05

States and even across the world . So

2:15

today's episode , our guest comes to us through one of my

2:17

former students . One of my former students , we just

2:19

finished up a capstone marketing

2:22

course . Up

2:29

a capstone marketing course and through the work

2:31

that he was doing , the transparency of sharing stories , not only

2:33

real life , professionally in business

2:36

, but also sharing

2:38

some

2:41

of his experiences as a family

2:43

member , as a brother to

2:46

Ben , and

2:49

Ben is Tommy

2:52

. So Tommy was

2:55

my student , tommy Zerzo was

2:57

my student and as I learned

2:59

more about Tommy and Ben , as I learned

3:01

more about Tommy and

3:04

Ben , as really

3:06

Tommy learned about

3:08

me and my active recovery

3:10

, which

3:21

, if you want to check that out on episode 106 , we go through my active

3:23

recovery journey that I'm on , and so , with having conversations before

3:25

class and after class with Tommy , one

3:28

and two really have an

3:30

opportunity to interview him and

3:32

or his , his father

3:35

, bill , for our tv

3:37

show and podcast , and so today

3:39

we're very

3:41

grateful to have in studio

3:43

my former

3:45

student , tommy zerzo's dad

3:47

, mr bill zerzo . Thank you for joining us today

3:49

. Oh , thanks .

3:50

Thanks for having me , justin uh , thank you for

3:52

joining us today . Thanks for having me

3:55

, justin . I want to say it's a real blessing to

3:57

come here and obviously

3:59

you touch the heart of our family

4:01

. It's time you would come home and share your story

4:04

and what you were doing . And , again

4:06

, I think there's a lot more for me to learn , but

4:15

from what I understand , as I share what's impacted our family , it means a lot to us . And

4:17

then this whole journey has been , you know , both a big struggle and

4:20

, at the same time , a blessing , that especially

4:23

in humility and to open our hearts to others

4:25

that are , you know , struggling with some of the

4:27

same stuff . So I look forward to sharing

4:29

this time with you and sharing our

4:31

story . I guess , if it hopefully helps somebody , yeah

4:34

absolutely little bit about your

4:37

background .

4:38

So you're a full-blown

4:40

, since 1992 businessman

4:43

. That started with your

4:46

wife , cindy , an organization

4:48

called Town Money Saver . Can you just

4:50

talk maybe a little bit about how

4:52

that came about ?

4:54

Yeah . So I graduated from Cleveland State University

4:57

and a communications

4:59

degree actually , and

5:01

we're going to get married and I had to find a job and

5:04

a guy said you should try sales . I didn't like

5:06

salespeople , I didn't want to be in sales . That's

5:09

all I've done my whole life . So you never know , you got to

5:11

open your heart , up to your gifts

5:13

, you know , and uh , so

5:15

really I worked for a few different companies and

5:17

we eventually lived in grafton , ohio

5:19

, and some of the local businesses

5:22

said you should try something , just local here , you

5:24

know , to help . And in fact

5:26

me and my wife met playing in a band . So I

5:28

was still kind of in a band at the time , wasn't really

5:31

my interest , but to do a business . But

5:33

within a months it blew away anything I

5:35

had seen . So I took some of the elements of the other places

5:38

I worked and from

5:40

there on it's 31 years later

5:42

. So we've been really blessed

5:44

with the success of that business .

5:47

Yeah , it's awesome and

5:49

you also have a passion

5:52

for Christ

5:55

and that I think , with

5:58

craziness going on in the

6:00

world , I think that that is

6:02

a good thing for

6:04

somebody who either is a follower

6:06

, believer or is not . And

6:09

can you maybe talk a little bit how that

6:12

has maybe helped your

6:14

mind and spiritually , as

6:16

you've kind of gone through the process

6:18

with starting and

6:21

running Town , money Saver

6:23

but then also starting a family

6:25

? Oh no , definitely .

6:26

Thanks . First of all

6:29

, I was cradle Catholic , born

6:31

Catholic , you know , attended mass

6:33

sacraments and

6:37

probably like a lot just showed up . You know

6:39

, I really wasn't that invested . And

6:42

then , around 07 , 08

6:44

, we had four children

6:46

. Our marriage was

6:49

basically over . You know , we were both kind of

6:51

like we done and , like

6:53

my wife , she had gone to rehab fact

6:55

, st Gregory retreat center and I woke him a little plug

6:58

and she said they shared there how we like

7:00

to be driving and , you know

7:02

, crisis in the back , like hey , I can take that for

7:04

you . Like no , I got it , I got it until

7:06

you crash . And then you're like , all right , christ

7:08

, I'll let you take over . So

7:11

I know , the moment I mean I

7:13

sat there I said Lord , something's got to give

7:15

. I'm not sure what to do . You know it's a wreck

7:17

a lot of drinking , a lot

7:20

of fighting . You know just behavior you didn't

7:22

want in a family life . And

7:24

it wasn't even a Bible , it was some Catholic

7:27

book I had laying around . I remember praying , opening

7:29

it , and the first sentence was you

7:31

know , satan's number one goal is to destroy the family

7:33

. And that's when it really hit . That's when I know

7:35

it was grace and the Holy Spirit's like , all right , I

7:38

don't want this to happen . So it took a

7:40

long time . It's still a work in progress

7:43

, so there's a long way to go . But

7:45

now I was born , I think , with

7:47

the virtues of our faith . You know , I was in that

7:49

first sales job , being

7:51

trained these guys are kind of BSing

7:53

people and stuff and I knew like this isn't right

7:56

. So I know it was inside

7:58

me , but that really brought

8:00

it out , that incident and

8:03

then my turning to Christ All right , I've got to

8:05

put you in charge , you've

8:07

got to be number one . Obviously , I was

8:09

submitting to some of the false

8:11

gods of money . We

8:15

had a very successful business . It was really rolling at that time Pleasure

8:18

, honor , stuff like that . Really

8:21

, one of the first things was a guy called from church and

8:23

said would you start

8:25

to do adoration , which I didn't even know what it was

8:27

. They started a little men's group

8:30

. This was back in 2009 . I

8:32

remember I was at the moment of saying yes

8:34

to anything with the faith , so that

8:36

really , in fact , this morning I was at mass

8:39

and we have a little Cursillo men's group right

8:41

after mass . So I'm so blessed

8:43

and so so

8:45

much fruit has come from this journey

8:47

of doing , especially as we talk . You know we've had some

8:50

really bad nothing worse , I think

8:52

, than what we've experienced in

8:54

our life . So if it wasn't

8:56

for that , I definitely

8:58

wouldn't be here talking to you , that's for sure . So

9:00

no , and then to the business . Our motto is serve

9:02

others , you win . I

9:05

preach all the time if you want to make a lot

9:07

of money , it can't be about the money . You

9:09

know it's got to be about the relationship

9:11

. It's got to be about relationship . It's got to be about it . I

9:13

mean , I've really just had a new franchisee . We just opened

9:15

a brand new North Canton , right down the street from you

9:17

. Well , right

9:22

in Walsh University there , and the girl there really appreciate it . I said you know it's got

9:24

to be a ministry . You know it's got to be something . You go out and you're

9:26

looking to be present and to be available if you can

9:28

and in any way lift other people up . So

9:31

, and if we get to it , my son

9:33

obviously I was . I don't know if I'm spilling

9:35

the beans talking about my son that we've lost , but

9:38

there's a phenomenal story that

9:40

someone posted on Facebook . That kind of ties

9:42

some of this together . But anyway , I'll stop

9:44

there .

9:44

Yeah , no great transition

9:47

. So one

9:49

of your sons , Ben , one

9:52

of his favorite quotes from

9:54

St Francis of Assisi

9:56

is start by doing what's

9:58

necessary , then do what's

10:00

possible and suddenly you

10:03

are doing the impossible . Can

10:05

you talk to maybe

10:08

that quote ? Or , and

10:10

just about Ben

10:12

in general , to share with our viewers

10:15

, our listeners , or if they're checking

10:17

out our transcript , that

10:19

everybody makes an

10:21

impact in the world and how

10:23

, even with

10:26

an unfortunate life cut

10:28

short , has and

10:30

, with his legacy , is

10:32

continuing to hopefully

10:34

help and inspire others ?

10:36

yeah , um , yeah

10:39

, in fact we put we were waiting for the headstone , but on

10:41

his little we put a little marker there and we said , you know

10:43

, happiest making others happy

10:45

and if I had to kind of put it

10:48

in the fewest words , uh , ben was

10:50

just so selfless . I mean he

10:52

would be , he was the life of the party

10:54

which allowed this to a fault . You

10:57

know , you mix in alcohol and other stuff

10:59

and he's a mental . You know

11:01

. Ben definitely , you know , I think , was

11:03

bipolar . I don't know if he formally

11:05

died . Well , he was because he was on different medications

11:08

. So we had some mental health in

11:10

the family . We have a lot of that and so

11:13

, in spite of that , I mean he really

11:16

was , amazingly , you know , when he did something , put

11:18

his heart to it , very successful , you

11:20

know . And

11:23

maybe I could best sum it up by sharing this

11:25

little story . So , one of our greatest

11:27

gifts after we lost Ben , which was August

11:29

15th , if you see the assumption

11:32

22 . It was

11:34

like around Thanksgiving this lady who

11:37

Ben was selling he was at the time selling

11:39

a system called Clover it's like a POS

11:41

system , point of purchase type system

11:44

and she

11:46

was actually looking to get his blessing on

11:48

a book she was writing that

11:50

the first three chapters were going to be about him

11:52

and how he changed her life , and so

11:54

it was unbelievable . And she then shared how utterly

11:57

destroyed she was to find out he had passed , you know

11:59

, just a few months earlier . But she

12:01

went on to share the beginning of

12:04

part of her chapter or something like that , and it basically

12:06

was Ben making the sales

12:08

call and

12:10

she didn't want to be bothered . She

12:12

was hoping he would go away and

12:15

he didn't go away and

12:17

apparently got in there and

12:19

basically she shared how he

12:21

quickly noticed that she

12:23

was going through something , that she was having

12:26

a hard time and I think , especially in

12:28

a relationship or something . I can't remember all the exact

12:30

words , but the part that was just

12:32

really amazing and I'm so proud of and I think

12:34

you try to do this and it's hard

12:36

but he really at that point

12:38

died to himself , put her first and

12:41

apparently really went on to spend a lot more

12:43

time with her and lifted

12:46

her up , you know like , shared a lot of things

12:48

and must have got her into writing and beautiful

12:50

writing , I mean . What she did write in there you can tell it

12:52

was that she should be an author and

12:55

for sake of time I'll go through

12:57

the whole . But that was the essence of it was that

12:59

he put her first in that moment . Even

13:01

though he was trying to sell her , she's a little annoyed . And yet

13:03

he was able to recognize she was

13:05

struggling and took the time to really be present

13:07

for her . And then that obviously

13:10

did something that really changed her and

13:19

she claimed it completely changed her life and she was doing what she was because of ben

13:21

. So and it goes hand in hand one other time he said you know , dad , I'm having a because then we sell in that town money saver

13:23

for a bit , unfortunately during the middle of covid , so that that probably

13:25

contributed this whole thing . But um

13:28

, he , uh . He

13:30

said you know , I'm having , I was having a really hard time . So I decided

13:32

tomorrow when I , or yesterday

13:35

when I went out , I just thought each person

13:37

I meet I want to lift their day up . I don't

13:39

care whether I sell anything , whatever happens

13:41

. He said he had one of the best sales day . So

13:43

he realized it to the point earlier if you , you

13:46

know , focus on the relationship and other people

13:48

, the things you need , the monies

13:50

, you know , the manna will come . You , quick-witted

13:57

, funny , good listener . I'm

14:02

sure this is very common with the bipolar

14:04

. My daughter is the same way . They're

14:06

class presidents , homecoming king and queens

14:09

, life of the party all this

14:11

going on . Then you've got this struggle

14:13

over here , this affliction that they've

14:15

got to deal with .

14:20

That's great and I think , especially

14:23

for myself and going through

14:25

my mental health

14:27

journey , that a

14:30

conversation I had with one of my

14:34

counselors

14:36

or therapists and we were just talking

14:39

about all the different things that I wanted to do

14:41

and had all these things lined up

14:43

and and I felt like I was

14:45

just like all over the place and

14:48

that there wasn't a method

14:50

to the madness and um

14:52

and and my counselor told

14:54

me he said that if

14:56

you want to , you know basically

14:58

corral , that , you know get a get

15:01

, get a calendar and write those

15:03

down and scheduling . And so I tried that a little

15:05

bit and , for whatever reason , I was falling

15:07

off the horse . But then our conversation

15:10

quickly turned because I was starting

15:13

to I think

15:17

I was are a lot

15:20

of surgeons and

15:22

lawyers and very

15:24

prominent well-to-do

15:27

people that are doing great things that

15:30

have some type of a mental

15:32

health challenge , whether

15:34

it is that ADHD

15:36

on to tell him he said would you

15:38

like to have a surgeon ? That

15:41

their mind is a little bit

15:43

all

15:45

over the place but then , when that surgery

15:47

has happened , is super hyper-focused

15:50

on that particular surgery or

15:53

do you want somebody ? The opposite

15:55

. And he went on to tell me that you know

15:57

that there's a lot of people that are undiagnosed

16:01

for whatever reason , and I

16:03

think that plays a little bit into what you're

16:05

talking about , ben and your daughter

16:07

that yeah , there might have

16:09

been things here and there and

16:13

the like , but once they actually focused

16:15

on whatever that thing was , that

16:18

he rose . And she rose above

16:21

that to actually have a

16:23

greater impact on that

16:25

person by just being present

16:28

and not being so wrapped

16:30

up in in the sale . Uh

16:32

, so I just wanted to share a little bit about

16:35

me , and so that made me feel a little bit better

16:37

when I'm having down days that

16:39

, okay , nobody , we

16:41

know , nobody's perfect , but the things that

16:43

we're doing , we're trying to do the best that

16:45

we can , and if

16:47

we just do a little bit at a time and

16:50

we just kind of continue on the

16:52

path that we

16:54

think and through our faith and

16:56

through our mentors and

16:58

the people we surround ourselves with , that

17:00

, that makes things a little

17:03

bit easier when we get to those

17:05

tough points Like , oh my gosh

17:07

, I haven't had a sale in

17:09

a week or two weeks . And the

17:11

next thing , you know , boom , the biggest

17:13

sale of the career may

17:16

happen . Right , yeah .

17:18

I can't help but have a few thoughts , as you're sharing that , please do . Yeah , I can't help but have a few thoughts , as

17:21

you're sharing , that Please

17:24

do . Mother Teresa is a big hero of mine and

17:26

I think she talks about you know , we

17:28

don't have to go out and save the world . We

17:31

just got to help that person next to us and I think our culture is so , and

17:33

this is one of the things that hurts me the

17:35

most . With Ben and partly , you know , I

17:37

would run around the house saying no such

17:39

thing as best . You can always do better

17:42

and you got it . You know . Second best

17:44

is not enough . You have all these motivational

17:46

things I'm trying to do , but

17:48

that can also put an incredible mental

17:50

burden on somebody . If you're not , you

17:52

know , if you don't have that groundedness in

17:55

that you're a son , a daughter of Christ . To me , that's

17:57

your first identity . All

18:02

this other stuff's kind of second . You know , husband , father , friends , you know things

18:04

like that . And then that stuff um

18:07

, we got to eat , we got to pay our bills , so

18:14

you do got to go out and do that . Um , the the other thing that ties in again , we could

18:16

talk for hours , so I'm trying to cut short some of my thoughts here , but , uh , I was starting

18:18

to share with you earlier . We host this Sober Burning

18:20

man , and it's an AA group

18:22

. It's all people recovering addicts and

18:25

it's my favorite group I'm ever around , even

18:27

more than church . To be honest with you , I mean

18:29

and I was thinking I don't know how to best explain

18:31

it and I thought I think what it is

18:33

is that we're really called

18:36

to lean on one another . You know , these people

18:38

, to me , are so broken . They got so

18:40

many tragic stories worse than ours

18:42

, and yet they're standing up

18:44

, I mean , they're lifted up and they're leaning each

18:46

other and lifting one another up . And

18:49

you're , and to your point , when you're feeling

18:51

that that we , you know oh

18:53

, I didn't make the sale or you know , you're feeling that insecurity

18:56

, or that I'm not accomplishing , and

18:58

I'm around those people , it's's almost like I

19:00

feel that just that love of Christ , like I don't

19:02

have to do anything , I can just rest in his arms

19:05

, just being present , just

19:07

being , you know , a child of Christ

19:09

, is all I need to do . And

19:12

so I think it's all those things you're

19:14

wrestling , you know , because , trust me , I got to leave

19:16

here and I'll have something at work I got

19:18

to deal with and I'll be like

19:20

praying please , lord , you know , give me the right

19:22

stuff and we go . You know even the business and we've been

19:25

really . You know we were half the

19:27

size we were before COVID and

19:30

you know , if I could , I'll share

19:32

. You know , the biggest

19:34

thing for me to even stand here and talk

19:36

about A year ago I couldn't do this because I would

19:38

be emotional wreck and

19:41

I think the

19:43

journey I'm growing on and I think this will relate

19:46

it's do I

19:48

really believe ? Do I really believe

19:50

in the resurrection ? Do

19:52

I believe in the conquering of death ? Do

19:55

I believe in eternal life ? I'm going to be reunited

19:57

with Ben and as Catholics we don't

19:59

have that kind of like oh , I'm saving

20:01

them there . That was one of the biggest

20:03

. That's the hardest thing for me and my wife when this

20:05

happened is is he okay ? We just wanted

20:07

God to come and say he's good , he's with

20:10

me , sorry

20:13

, so anyway , okay . So

20:19

what's happened is over the year and a half . It's

20:25

like taking a little well , your whole life

20:27

right . I think of that story of the beggar

20:29

on the rich guys I can't remember all the

20:31

names down from the scripture , but you know

20:33

he goes to hell and he's like

20:35

, hey , I've got to warn my brothers . And they're like

20:37

, if they didn't get it too bad , you know we got Moses , you

20:39

had all these prophets . If they didn't get it too bad , you know we got Moses , you had all these prophets

20:41

. So they didn't figure it out and I couldn't help . But I

20:44

felt this coming on me with the Holy Spirit , like

20:46

I got all these . The story

20:48

I just shared with you . I had so many beautiful

20:51

stories , dreams . You know the

20:53

Tommy and Zeke , if you ever shared that one dream

20:55

, they had two independent dreams and the same exact

20:57

event happened with Ben in the dream . I

21:00

, just a couple weeks ago , during the mission

21:02

trip during Easter , one

21:04

of my franchisees called me to say , during

21:06

Father Larry Richard's

21:08

talk in Calvary which

21:11

is , if you ever heard it , it's pretty intense it

21:14

came to him that he had to call me and say

21:16

that he knew Ben was okay in

21:18

heaven with God and I was like what , I don't even

21:20

talk to him . He's one of my 30-some franchise , one of them . He knew Ben was okay in heaven with

21:22

God and I was like what ? I haven't even talked to him in life . He's one of my 30-some

21:24

franchise , one of them , great guy , and those things you

21:27

know , especially going right through the Easter season , that we

21:29

just are , and you know

21:31

, it's that belief and that faith and

21:33

I've gotten so much joy now

21:35

and comfort . And even my

21:37

spiritual director said you know , ben's

21:40

okay , he's with God . You're a father

21:42

, You're a husband , you got a business

21:44

, you got employees that are depending on you and

21:47

I've really tried to focus on that

21:49

, and so we're actually in the middle . I'll

21:51

share this I don't know if I'm jumping

21:53

ahead and me and my wife just met with some people yesterday

21:56

. Ben loved to work

21:58

out , he was rolling the fitness and lifting and

22:00

everything , and so our

22:02

goal is if the Holy Spirit wants it to be

22:04

, is what I mostly pray for is

22:10

to open a gym for recovering addicts in Mansfield and then create a

22:13

culture around that , or community . I should say that

22:16

we can do other things . So we

22:18

think we're real close . I'm trying to get the physical

22:20

space and we've got few people involved that

22:22

knew Ben , in fact , his sponsor and the

22:24

place he was at , the guy there . So

22:27

we're very and my wife , who's really

22:29

, you know , just kind of almost become

22:31

a hermit because it's been hard , you know , to get out

22:34

and she said if you do , if we do

22:36

this , I'm going to be there . And so she went yesterday

22:38

and she was so lifted up

22:40

and I think I mean that's I know I'm

22:42

not saying I'm not a psychologist , but obviously

22:45

when you're helping others and that's

22:47

the big thing I started to say earlier the humility

22:49

and the and you know I didn't to

22:52

first say that my daughter was mentally ill was

22:54

one of the most painful things before Ben died

22:56

, and yet it's been

22:58

one of the greatest blessings , because now I

23:00

feel like I get it and

23:06

I had panic attacks when I was in college and anyway . So we

23:08

see the suffering , we see so many

23:10

worse situations , and

23:17

so me and my wife have said , man , if there's any way that we could bring somebody else some kind of piece

23:19

especially , well , and I will tell you this I mean the drug dealer

23:22

is in prison . I work with the FBI

23:24

, but our main goal this is the

23:26

other big thing is knowing the true enemy . You know

23:28

, it's not that drug dealer , it's Satan

23:30

, and we really pray for his soul

23:33

and the other people that are struggling in

23:35

this . And I mean he , honestly , he was getting

23:37

his feet cut off from diabetes

23:39

. You know , when you do the drugs I've seen it the limb's

23:41

missing and stuff like that . It's so horrific

23:44

. So you know , we

23:46

just feel really blessed

23:48

, you know , and to have and I guess

23:50

to go back to my original point , sorry I'm rambling on , but

23:53

to have that faith and that

23:55

belief and that , ben's

23:57

okay , it frees you to go out and

24:00

then do these , rather than sitting in your

24:02

own sorrow , which

24:04

we do get in . I mean , it hits you for sure , but

24:06

anyway , I'm rambling . I don't know what the original

24:09

question was .

24:10

No , it's great . And to be as transparent

24:13

about this , it's

24:15

tough , because no matter how

24:17

many people try

24:19

to reduce the stigma , there's still

24:22

a stigma from people

24:24

, from organizations out

24:26

there . So just having this conversation

24:28

and you sharing that I mean , when you brought

24:31

up the venture

24:33

in Mansfield , I just got chills

24:35

because it's so

24:38

awesome and so

24:40

many levels above what somebody

24:43

might think that we'd be capable of doing . It's like , okay

24:46

, now if we can do this , we're

24:49

helping people health-wise and

24:51

we're giving people a place to

24:53

hang out and maybe you bring a

24:55

church element and there's groups . Oh

24:57

yeah , and to have that is when

25:01

I say at the beginning and the end of the show , wanting

25:03

to help three billion people , these crazy

25:06

goals that we have , that we think that

25:09

if we don't have those , then we're

25:11

limiting ourselves and we're only on earth for

25:13

a finite amount of time . So

25:16

what do we want to spend our time

25:18

doing ? And when I

25:20

had to accept my mental illnesses

25:23

in plural , that

25:25

was one of the hardest things . But once , kind

25:27

of your point , once you do it and

25:30

you just accept it

25:32

and say this is just a part

25:34

of who I am . And yeah

25:37

, there might be medication I don't want to take it , but

25:39

maybe that's part of what I need . Maybe talking

25:41

to a counselor or a priest , Maybe

25:43

those are things that I need . I need to get over

25:45

myself and let

25:47

again . Let somebody else

25:49

that has the keys to

25:52

the kingdom really

25:54

take the wheel .

25:56

Yeah , that is awesome . You make

25:58

me think of a couple of things , and this will relate to business

26:00

and this One of the first things . You know , I grew

26:02

up my dad worked in a factory . We came from a pretty

26:05

meager thing and

26:07

I'll never forget the numbers aren't going

26:09

to matter . I remember I just want to make $35,000

26:11

a year . That was like my goal or something . And I'm at this

26:13

company early on and my buddy goes why

26:15

don't know ? This is

26:17

the stupidest

26:20

thing . I'm already done with college and everything . I'm like

26:22

. I never thought of it . I guess I'm the

26:24

only one preventing this from happening . I could

26:26

do this , I guess , and that changed everything

26:28

. I started reprogramming my mind , listening

26:31

to tapes and all this stuff . Well

26:36

, just your point , it's no different . Now

26:38

You're doing this , you know , if this

26:40

gym thing happens , and I think

26:42

a key thing is having the ultimate humility . I don't really know what I'm doing , but I'm going to

26:44

go try to do it . You know what I mean ? It's kind of like and we did a Lucas

26:47

. It's called Lucas Community Center . It's a faith-based community

26:49

center in Lucas , the town we live . Very similar

26:51

thing . That's a whole story I can

26:54

tell you . But it's a faith . It's to bring people together

26:56

in relationship , and this was before Ben . Even

26:58

this was more related to the marriages , broken families

27:00

and the community in that , and bringing

27:02

virtue , one of the things . I'll

27:04

jump around a little bit , but these are the key

27:06

points of this journey . So

27:09

, having those panic attacks when I was younger , I remember

27:11

it was horrifying , you know . I remember

27:13

I thought I was dying when

27:15

it first happened . So it's one

27:17

of my personal experiences , I guess , with something

27:20

close to this . But the

27:22

one that really hit me and I know it had to be the Holy Spirit

27:24

could have been .

27:26

I don't mean to cut you off . We're getting close on

27:28

time , so if

27:30

it's okay with you , we could close this

27:32

episode and go

27:35

ahead and film a second episode . So

27:37

you're able to share , because I don't want to

27:40

cut you off from what you're

27:42

sharing , because it's so important and our

27:44

viewers and listeners we

27:46

owe it to them to give

27:48

the whole story and those experiences

27:51

. If you want an encore , sure , yeah

27:53

, absolutely so , yeah . Thank

27:55

you , our viewers , our listeners , for

27:57

joining us on this episode of

28:00

the Voices for Voices TV show and podcast

28:03

In studio . Our guest

28:05

, mr Bill Zerzow , has

28:08

joined us for this part one

28:10

. Why don't you come back next week

28:12

and check out part two

28:14

? So until next time , I'm

28:17

Justin Allen Hayes , founder and executive

28:19

director of Voices for Voices , and

28:22

please be a voice for you or somebody

28:24

in need .