Hiten Shah started two SaaS companies, Crazy Egg and KISSmetrics. He also co-hosts the show The Startup Chat Podcast.
Today on The Startup Chat, Steli and Hiten talk about a founders guide to feeling feelings. Running a business is difficult and comes witha lot of stress that if not managed properly can lead to a lot of problems for a founder. Problems that could affect your personally or worse, the health of your business. In today’s episode of the show, Steli and Hiten what it means to suppress your emotions, why doing so might not be a good thing, how to get in control of your emotions and much more. Time Stamped Show Notes: 00:00 About today’s topic 00:32 Why this topic was chosen. 01:38 How Steli deals with his emotions. 03:25 One factor that determines how you deal with your feelings. 05:02 Another factor that determines how you deal with your feelings. 06:16 One way to get in control of your emotions. 08:35 The importance of recognizing your emotions. 09:05 A real-world example of dealing with emotions. 10:34 How Steli reacted to an emergency situation. 11:41 Why you can pay a big price if you suppress your emotions. 3 Key Points: I can’t quite fully trust my emotions.Think things through before you act.Personality has a lot to do with how you express yourself to the outside world. [0:00:01] Steli Efti: Hey everybody, this is Steli Efti. [0:00:03] Hiten Shah: And this is Hiten Shah. [0:00:04] Steli Efti: And today on the Startup Chat, we’re going to figure out if founders know how to feel their feelings or they’re just thinking them. So, here’s why I wanted to quickly talk to you about this. Anybody that’s been listening to the Startup Chat for a long time knows we have talked a lot about the inner game of being a founder. We’ve talked a lot about it, we have a good amount of episodes around managing your emotions, managing your states, managing other people’s emotions, because it’s an emotional game. And if you don’t control your feelings, they might lead you astray and into problematic situations. One thing that I recently discovered about myself, and I wanted to quickly unpack with you for founders, because I thought this might be useful to people that listened to us, is this realization that I had about myself that I think at some point at a young age, I started realizing that I can’t quite fully trust my feelings, and if I just act on my emotions, I wreak havoc, and I create all kinds of problems. So, I started focusing more on controlling my feelings through my mind, and through thinking things through, and not acting immediately, and slowing it down, and de-intensifying my feelings, analyzing them first. Over a long period of time, very subconsciously over decades, I think that I mastered… I overdid this to the point where over the last many, many years, I think I thought most of my feelings, especially the negative ones, right? So, I could tell you here’s a situation that I think I was hesitant in and probably was driven by some kind of a fear, I didn’t feel fear or I didn’t feel hesitant, but I didn’t feel nervous. I just thought, “I’m probably nervous in this situation,” but it didn’t have a physical sensation. And for many, many reasons, I think that that’s not a good idea. It’s not a good idea to just think your feelings. I think it’s a much better idea to actually feel them, be present for them, not let them overwhelm you or runaway with you, but not run away from them either, but actually being fully present for the feeling. And then, you can still decide to think things through at times before you act. But, as I was thinking about all my friends that were CEOs and founders and entrepreneurs, I was wondering if this is maybe not so unique of a case. And what the downside, let’s just talk about that, the potential downside could be for founders who have lost touch with their feelings, who’ve lost the ability to feel their feelings and are just so cognitively focused, that all they do is all their internal experience is always just in their head, in their mind thinking and analyzing. So, first throwing that out there. Does this make any sense? Does this resonate? Do you think I’m crazy and alone or do you think, “Yeah, most founders are like that; that’s totally normal. That’s not special at all”? what’s your initial reaction to this? [0:03:11] Hiten Shah: Yeah, I would say that the there’s a few factors. So, there’s two factors that come to mind for me, as to how you deal with this or how this comes to be. One factor, which is probably the biggest one, is your personality. And personality is a longer topic, I’m sure. But, the reason I say that is your personality has a lot to do with how you express yourself to the outside world. And over time, as you run a business, your ability to bring out your personality in every interaction gets diminished. And the reason for that is most of the time in business, you are making decisions that involve other people and their wellbeing, as well as trying to bring those people on board with the decisions you’re trying to make. And you get really good at, honestly, not being yourself, if you want to put it like that. You end up becoming good at being a business person. That’s just what happens. And a lot of times that bleeds into all parts of your life and you end up suppressing your emotion and your personality unknowingly. And this shouldn’t necessarily be a negative thing. So, that’s one factor, which is what happens to your personality over time. This is inevitable. I don’t see anybody not hitting this, but their personality and then their own psyche and psychology points out like how this manifests in them. And I think the second piece that I’ve found with this is just this idea that when you are dealing with life, your first reaction for most human beings is emotional, and it’s really fast and it’s visceral. Some people would call it a gut feeling. Some people would just call it a trigger. Those things are what you start suppressing, is your ability to respond without emotion, ends up taking over the emotion itself and then you don’t even know what an emotion really is, and you start operating day-to-day, waking up doing the thing, going back to sleep, waking up, doing the thing, without having that feeling. And a lot of times your work takes over. So then your whole idea of life is really consumed by your work. And a lot of times this happens because you started the thing and you care that much about it, or for some people, some folks who are employees also get that same impact because of how much they care about the work they’re doing or believe they do. So, it’s not just founders, I think that are susceptible to this. I think the solution is just recognizing this might be happening to you, and in stepping back and actually finding ways to access your emotion at times when it’s safe to do so. Because I think what it really boils down to is that you don’t feel safe expressing your emotions to the people around you. [0:06:40] Steli Efti: Yeah- [0:06:40] Hiten Shah: Because that’s not you anymore. [0:06:43] Steli Efti: Yeah. That’s deep. I think also at some point, you attach to this new identity that is being created around you and so now you don’t trust yourself anymore to feel. [0:06:57] Hiten Shah: And that identity is a rules engine. That identity is a rules engine like you were saying, and that’s not emotion. Emotions aren’t rules. There’s no rules to emotion. There’s no rules to love. It’s a rules engine that you create because you’re like, “Well, when I’m in this situation, I need to react like this in order to get the best outcome possible.” Okay, cool. That’s great. But, how did you feel about it? Nothing. Why nothing? Because I’m not supposed to feel anything. Why aren’t you supposed to feel anything? Because we got this thing to do. That’s the thing that plays out in your head, right. And then eventually, you become that person and that’s not necessarily a bad thing. Again, it’s just what happens. And then, you see this happen and I’m not going to… I don’t want to get into this, but I think it’s worth mentioning. The richest man in the world got divorced. Just think of that. And he got divorced because basically he didn’t want to be with that person anymore, go and be with somebody else. [0:07:56] Steli Efti: Maybe, yeah. Maybe he really was [crosstalk 00:07:58]. [0:07:58] Hiten Shah: Yeah. I’m just saying. I don’t know. Either way, right? Something happened that caused that person to put half his wealth [crosstalk] sense. [0:08:08] Steli Efti: Which is not… Which is like… [0:08:10] Hiten Shah: I didn’t want to get into it because it’s his personal life. I don’t really care for it. It’s not my kind of drama, right? But dude, just think about it. You think that’s not from suppressed emotion? Oh, c’mon. [0:08:20] Steli Efti: Yeah, yeah. [0:08:22] Hiten Shah: For real? No, no, no. That’s 100% something from suppressed emotion. What? I don’t know. [0:08:28] Steli Efti: So, I think that, not to confuse, especially, young founders that are just feeling like they’re becoming more effective as they’re learning to suppress their emotions more and they’re like, Wait a second. Am I not supposed to do this? [0:08:42] Hiten Shah: No, no, no. You’re supposed to do it, it’s okay. [0:08:43] Steli Efti: No, no. It’s fine to do it. But, I think it’s important to recognize and then decompress, or then trans… You want to make sure that you don’t do this so much and so often that it becomes such second nature, that you just don’t feel any emotions anymore because then you dehumanize yourself. And then, you might accomplish all kinds of incredible things and be like, “Why don’t I feel anything? I wanted to be excited or happy or fulfilled. And just nothing. Look inside my body and soul is emptiness there. What happened?” And I think, it just popped up in my mind, we had an episode that I recorded once, where I lost one of my sons at a playground. And I was running for 30 minutes, searching around. Eventually like 30 parents in this entire big park were running around, trying to look for my son while I had the police on the phone. And then, we found him. I remember when we recorded this episode telling you that the entire time I was running around like a crazy person trying to find him, there were multiple dialogues going on. One was a very analytical like, “Okay, I’ve searched here, I’ve searched there. What’s the next logical point?” The next level of dialogue was just disbelief where it was just like, “This isn’t happening. This is just not possible. There must be some rational way. He’s not lost. It just need to figure it out.” And then, the third dialogue that was going on was a, “Why am I not feeling anything?” Right. “Holy shit, I’m really cold and empty and emotionless right now.” And I was telling myself, “Well, it’s probably because I just need to function.” And then we talked and laughed about this, where you like, “I would have been doing the same thing.” It was just, you have to function. This is an emergency situation. It’s not the time to feel pain or afraid or break down. You have to figure it out and then you can deal with your emotions. O. I think the important thing for me back then, this may be a good way to wrap this up or to pack this into a metaphor, was that once I found him and we went back home, I didn’t just tell myself, “Well, I didn’t feel anything. I found him. I managed the situation quite well. I’m a man. I’m a good dad. Whatever, let’s forget about this. Let me put on the television.” I was like, “All right, I brought him home, talked to his mom,” and then I was like, “I need to go on a walk.” And I went on a walk until I could figure out where are my feelings. Where is this? And then, I did feel them. And I had to be able to let go of all the panic and the fear and the stress that I felt during those 30 minutes. That was a very crazy moment, but in many, many other small stressful moments, I didn’t do this because I didn’t recognize and realize what was going on. And I think that you could pay a big price if you don’t make sure that, at times when you push away your emotions, you use the rules engine of your personality to strategically act and get the outcome for everybody that you then don’t forget that there still are emotions somewhere in your body that need to be processed. And if you don’t, there’s going to be a price that you’re going to pay that you’re probably not going to like. So, I don’t know. That’s the lesson learned and one maybe practical thing, because we always love to do practical stuff even if it’s philosophical or emotional. One thing that I started that I can recommend to anybody that’s like, “I don’t know if I have feelings or not.” You probably don’t. If you’re puzzled, if you don’t know, you’re probably in my camp. But, one thing that I did that yielded really good results that was really compelling, interesting, was just to start a little simple emotional diary. So, for a couple of days, I was just like, “Let me try a couple of times a day to write down how I feel.” And I struggled so hard with this exercise that it opened up a bunch of things and make me realize that a ton of things. It was super useful to me. So, just as a little pragmatic tip at the end of this crazy episode. If you don’t know if you have feelings, maybe try writing them down for a couple of days and see what happens. [0:13:01] Hiten Shah: That’s the best. I got nothing more to add. That’s good. Feel your feelings. [0:13:04] Steli Efti: Feel your feelings. [0:13:05] Hiten Shah: Just at the right times. [0:13:08] Steli Efti: That’s it from us for this episode. We’ll hear you very soon. Bye bye. [0:13:11] Hiten Shah: Yeah. [0:13:11]The post 525: A Founders Guide to Feeling Feelings appeared first on The Startup Chat with Steli & Hiten.
In today’s episode of The Startup Chat, Steli and Hiten talk about how to acquire and cross-promo saas apps. Acquiring and cross-promo saas apps is a common strategy stirrups use to grow. However, it can get very messy when not done right. There specific questions that need to be answered before you commit to making a purtcahse so that you avoin problems or regret. In this episode, Steli and Hiten talk about what cross-promoting is, how companies use it to grow, why it isn’t as simple as people think and much more. Time Stamped Show Notes: 00:00 About the topic of today’s episode 00:32 Why this topic was chosen. 02:45 Why cross-promoting isn’t as simple as people think. 03:29 Why you should be conservative with your expectations. 04:05 Things to consider before using this strategy. 05:22 How to introduce the new app to customers. 06:37 Why you should be clear about buying an app. 07:38 Why you should be cautious about buying an app. 07:41 Questions to ask before buying an app. 10:03 About Basecamp’s marketing strategy. 3 Key Points: Cross-promoting typically failsBe conservative with your expectations.Over time, most companies rebrand. [0:00:01] Steli: Hello everybody. This is Steli Efti. [0:00:03] Hiten: And this is Hiten Shah. [0:00:04] Steli: And today on this [hollow chat 00:00:05], we’re going to talk about buying and cross-promoting apps in SAS, or products in SAS. So here’s the deal. As the world of SAS products has matured and grown and scaled and exploded, and there is a ton of different SAS products out there. There’s SAS extensions, mobile apps, web apps, whatever, desktop apps. Now we’re getting to the stage where we don’t just see kind of one type of company or startup that is building a SAS product, to be kind of a venture funded Silicon Valley based company or something like that. But you have single founders, you have people that build these SAS apps as side projects. Some of them are big. Some of them are small. And so now we’re starting to see kind of this trend of more acquisition happening in the space where companies buy smaller products to promote them, or to use them as lead gen for their main product. And I thought it’d be fun to unpack this a little bit for somebody that’s already a founder running a startup, or a SAS product, is it a viable strategy to buy other apps that have maybe similar customer base and cross promote? You’ve done this a good amount, you’re probably one of the more experienced people in SAS in buying apps or launching different products and doing the cross promotion. And so I wanted to unpack the strategy and kind of maybe highlight some of the unintuitive truths to this. Here’s the shit that everybody thinks would work easily, but it doesn’t. Or here’s the stuff that you think would be profitable, but most people don’t do X, Y, and Z when they do the math. So let me ask you, with kind of all the experience that you’ve had trying this, first of all, just throwing out there the big question in my mind which is, what’s not simple about the strategy of saying let’s buy an app or a SAS product that has a similar customer base that then we’ll be able to promote our main product to, and kind of do cross selling or cross promotion? What about that basic idea is what people miss? Because if it was that simple, everybody would do it and would do it incredibly successfully, and I’m not sure that that’s really the case. So what’s some stuff that we don’t know about this strategy or this idea? [0:02:44] Hiten: What you probably don’t know is it typically fails. And it’s not that you don’t know that, it’s just that when you’re in it and you see an opportunity, you’re thinking about all the things that could go right. And I think that that ends up getting people to be very optimistic about something that they should actually be very conservative about. So when you’re acquiring these things, my advice would be, be conservative in your thinking of what you can do with that thing. And the way you’re conservative, the way to do that is actually go model it out. What’s going to happen when we buy this thing. And that already starts kicking up a lot of dust, so to speak in terms of like, “Oh, well, why are we buying it? What is our goal with it? What do we expect this to do for us?” And it has to do something related to your existing metrics or your existing business, or it doesn’t really work. Even if that means we want to extend into this new product line and we want to do this new thing, we want to extend the capability of our product in this direction. Then there’s things like, do you keep the product? Do you merge it in? Do you rebrand it? Is your strategy to create what they call a family of brands? Best example’s Facebook, they have a family of brands. Or are you like Google? Even Google does, but really Google’s been much better at you buy it and you rebrand it to Google. And over time, most companies rebrand. The only reason I mentioned Facebook is their ability to rebrand these things, even though they’ve made some branding moves more recently is, pretty low because of the consumer market and consumers getting really attached to a brand. When it comes to B2B, one of the things that you see often is that someone buys something and then rebrands it, or adds their logo to it, much like Facebook has done recently with WhatsApp and Instagram and even Oculus. So you’re talking about something where most people are optimistic going in, and that’s why these initiatives fail. And the way to be conservative and appropriately assess it is get very clear about what you expect to happen after the purchase. And that’s based on things like, well, how many sign ups do they get? How much revenue does it make? How does it fit into our business? Is it something where we expect to introduce this to our customers and improve our retention, for example? Or is it something we plan on introducing to our customers through our sales team and get an upsell, because of whatever reason? So the devil’s really in the details, and I see teams have a lot of alignment issues when it comes to this. And what I mean by that is, the team itself internally, and this is why I suggest this approach of being conservative, the team itself internally is not aligned on the reasons. And you kind of make them up and different people in the company have different reasons for why this acquisition or purchasing this product or business is a good idea. When, if you start putting it on paper and do the math, I think a lot of things become clear. Even the idea of the company itself doing it itself instead of building versus buying, ends up being a more deliberate math, kind of cost based conversation. And the funny thing is, most of the time you’re not buying something like Facebook did with WhatsApp, where they spent $19 billion. You’re closer to buying something like they did with Instagram, where they spend a billion or you’re buying something like they did with some of the companies they’ve done historically, where they bought it for the technology and then shut it down. And all this just points out the fact that be very clear about the one reason you’re buying the thing. There can only be one reason, because you can only do math on one reason. If you have multiple reasons, then you’re really not thinking hard enough of what does this purchase mean to us? [0:06:51] Steli: I love that. That makes so much sense. And I think that this, just like many other examples that we’ve discussed as pitfalls for founders, is one of those things where it looks so appealing and so sexy and there’s a fantasy in our minds that can run away with it, of this could be this really exciting thing and it’s already there so it’s easy and fast. It’s kind of like a fast way to whatever, expand or grow, do something or launch something new or whatever it is. And the devil is in the detail as you said, especially if there’s maybe not enough time to slow down a little bit and think about the opportunity costs. If we spend all this time integrating this, rebranding this, promoting this, whatever, what are we are going to stop doing? Where are we going to take the time away from? Does that make sense? What does success even look like for this? What would this have to do for it to be a big success? And what would it have to do to be a big failure? Even not being clear on that could mean you buy something, you work at it for a year and you’re sort of in this fog where you don’t realize it’s been a failure and should move on from it, and you’re just kind of stuck in it. [0:08:09] Hiten: That’s right. That’s exactly right. That’s what you’re trying to prevent. Also, you don’t want to carry those feelings over into post-purchase. It’s exactly right, that’s the big problem. If you go into it the wrong way, you might end up with something on your hands that’s going to fail because it didn’t start the right way. It started with optimism, not with the conservative lens. And this stuff has to have a conservative lens. There’s so many unknowns about this and you can never know all of them when you buy something. [0:08:37] Steli: We recently had a conversation with somebody that had done this, I think he said nine or 10 times and one thing that he told me, it was really surprising, his strategy. This is somebody that had one big app, SAS product, that had a shit ton of signups every month. And then he’s been running this thing for a while, and then he started thinking, “Well, what if I bought smaller SAS products that have the same audience as mine? And then all I do is I buy this app that sells to recruiters and I have a big recruiter product. And then what I do is I just buy it for whatever it is, price X. And then I use my massive audience of customers to promote this product two, and maybe I double its customer base or triple its customer base. And then I turn around and try to sell it, because I grew it very quickly in a very short period of time, because I had one main product with lots and lots of customers and I can use this to infuse this unnatural growth for these SAS products and then flip them, basically.” That was his big strategy and idea, he told me. And then he told me that with nine different products that he acquired, it didn’t work once. And I was kind of baffled. I was like, “Really?” And he’s like, “Yeah.” And I’m like, “Why? Why do you think isn’t it working?” And his thesis, I don’t know if it’s true or not, his thesis was that he said he didn’t know. A lot of these products were very complementary, they did surveys before trying to figure out would customers also need this other thing? And he said, even for something where they would have for the main product, I don’t know, like 10,000 signups and maybe out of those 5,000 were good signups every month. Out of those five signups, they would promote this other product that would get like six to sign up for this smaller product that they were promoting. And he said, they even tried to brand it similarly to the main product that did slightly better, but also not. And then his thesis, why this wasn’t working, although he tried it so many different times, was that the main business, although he had a lot of customers, had a pretty weak brand. And he was like, maybe people just don’t trust it from this brand when we were promoting these other products. But that seemed kind of funny to me. I don’t know, I had no experience myself with any of this, but this was just such a interesting… [0:11:09] Hiten: So he failed not because of the brand, but because I think he failed to do the math on the conversion rates when you start trying to promote another product of any kind to a existing user base. And it’s really honestly not about promotion. It’s almost like treating it as if it’s a new feature you’re adding. And how do you ensure a feature adoption? So there’s two things. That’s one piece, and the second piece is user friction, and they kind of get related. So all the things he was telling you about, “Oh, if it was a stronger brand,” or “When we slapped the brand on it got a little better.” Those are all just optimizations on adoptions, but those aren’t necessarily like, “Hey, people are already doing X in our product. If we add a button for them to do Y, they’re going to actually click Y and a high percentage of them are going to actually go do that second thing.” It’s the same way you would treat a feature. You’d be like, “Well, if you put the button in, are people going to use it?” Or “If we put the feature in, are people going to buy it?” How do you figure all that out before you actually go and make those moves? So that’s why historically, and I’m sure a lot of people listening don’t remember any of this, but companies would basically, like Amazon and other companies that have been, historically even Google, this is like old school method, but known to directly compete with the thing that they’re about to purchase, in order to really assess what’s the viability of it, are they working. The second thing they do is if they don’t compete, they go partner and see if there is the kind of uptick that they thought there would be, and then they go buy. So the classic moves are to solve for the one problem, which is adoption basically. Will that thing be adopted through the methods we use at our company today. And that goes back to being conservative and also understanding what your real advantage is. So I think that person you talked to, he had a feeling that the brand might be an advantage or a feeling that the audience might be an advantage, but then he hit all these bottlenecks that were just points of friction. And so I’ve seen this work, for example, there’s a couple folks, who’ve done this in the Chrome extension space where they have an audience of, let’s say marketers, and they just buy up all the Chrome extensions for marketers. And then they have a pretty big audience for marketers and they’re able to do a bunch of cross selling and promotion across the tools. But you’re talking about someone installed a Chrome extension, they’re a marketer, maybe there’s another one that’ll install that does something different, but is still something for them. And there’s things like that that have worked, but they also have a channel, which is basically the Chrome notifications, that caused the upsells. So the channel’s built in, that I’ve seen over and over again, maybe four or five times people doing that. Now the Chrome marketplace is not as hot, so to speak on some of those strategies, but that’s worked. People have done that with WordPress too. So the folks at AppSumo, now sumo.com, grew their original widget business where it was popups on top of a website, by basically purchasing a lot of WordPress plugins and trying to consolidate, trying to put their technology into them. And I don’t know how successful that was from a revenue standpoint, but from a growth and adoption standpoint that was pretty good. [0:14:27] Steli: Nice. That makes a ton of sense. All right, we’ll wrap this episode up here. I think for any founder that is interested in potentially buying another SAS product or extension or something like that, and is maybe unsure if it is the right timing or the right approach can always send us an email at hnshah@gmail.com and steli@close.com. We are always happy to help if we can.  And this is it from us for this episode, we’ll hear you very soon. [0:14:53] The post 524: How to Acquire and Cross-Promo SAAS Apps appeared first on The Startup Chat with Steli & Hiten.
In today’s episode of The Startup Chat, Steli and Hiten talk about creating opportunities in a time of crisis. During these difficult times, a lot of business are going to struggling to stay alive, and even more, are going to fail. It’s tempting for some founders to give in to the challenging times which ultimately results in the collapse of their businesses. However, it doesn’t necessarily have to be so, with a little creativity and some innovation, founders can adapt and still keep their businesses afloat in these times. In this week’s episode, Steli and Hiten talk about reinvention versus destruction, how this pandemic is negatively affecting some businesses, examples of example of entrepreneurs taking advantage of the current situation and examples of business that are innovating in this crisis much more. Time Stamped Show Notes: 00:00 About today’s topic. 00:37 Why this topic was chosen. 02:17 An example of an entrepreneur taking advantage of the current situation. 06:19 How some restaurants are really innovating right now. 07:53 Another way some restaurants are innovating. 09:19 One other way some restaurants are innovating in this crisis. 12:02 How a startup in the fitness industry is innovating. 06:01 How being successful in a time of crisis is all about getting creative. 3 Key Points: Tailors are very risk-averse.Don’t let things that get in the way of others get in your way.I’ve been most impressed by the number of restaurants that are really iterating right now [0:00:01] Steli Efti: Hey everybody, this is Steli Efti. [0:00:03] Hiten Shah: And this is Hiten Shah. And I think in true Steli and, I guess, Hiten form, Steli and me form, we’re going to talk about something positive today and something that Steli came up with. I don’t know when he came up with it, but I heard about it right now. And what it is is, I think, something much needed right now, which is a discussion about what we’re seeing that’s actually working in business right now, considering shelter in place, COVID out of control, I think somebody called this Armageddon or something like that to me five minutes ago, before I got on this. [0:00:40] Steli Efti: Oh, really? [0:00:41] Hiten Shah: Yeah. They called it Armageddon. They’re like, “Yeah, how are you doing with the current Armageddon, blah, blah, blah?” I’m like, “I’m doing as fine as I can. And definitely better than a lot of people.” So I can’t can’t really complain about anything. And so, yeah, let’s talk about it. I think the big thing was, what approaches are working right now for people that we can kind of talk about, right? [0:01:03] Steli Efti: Yeah. I felt that it would be a good idea to just share some examples in our network, or within our friends, or anywhere that we’ve observed, that we’ve seen, over the last couple of months that we thought, “Wow, this is inspiring,” or, “This is cool,” that somebody is creating, or innovating, or adapting and changing, and succeeding in some way, finding opportunity, even in these difficult times, just to give people inspiration, to simulate them, and just because we have enough of the critical things that we read and hear about every single day. So how do we want to do this? You can go first, I can go first, with examples, and we’ll go back and forth, and I’m sure we’ll come up with and be able to share a bunch of good stuff with people. [0:01:47] Hiten Shah: Yeah, that’s fine. Yeah. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. [0:01:48] Steli Efti: So the first thing that I’ll bring up is… Actually I want to go outside of tech, alright? So, at the very beginning of COVID being a bigger thing in Europe, I remember that, in the first few weeks, there was this shortage of masks. It’s not a problem anymore. This is a past problem. But while it was a big surging demand and problem, I remember that people were trying to research and figure out where locally can I buy some masks, because nobody could order anything online and get it. And I remember that I heard from a friend about a little store that was… I don’t even know the English word for that, you know those stores that do leather work, they fix your shoes, or if your- [0:02:37] Hiten Shah: Tailor. A tailor. Equivalent to that. Something like that. [0:02:39] Steli Efti: Yeah. There’s a small tailor in this town that’s 20 minutes from where I live that has and does masks, just go to him. But you have to have time because there’s a huge line outside of his little store. And so, I go there and the whole shop window is full of all kinds of designed masks, all kinds of flavors for kids for this, for that, and there’s a huge line outside the… It’s a tiny store, really. So I wait in line, eventually I get inside, and I wanted to buy some masks for my family, for kids, for relatives. And I start chatting up the guy that was running that tailor store, and the first thing that I noticed that, as I entered, there were all these, thank you letters that he had hung up from local hospitals and doctor’s offices. And I was like, “Oh, that’s cool. Did you just supply all these people?” And he’s like, “Yeah, all these hospitals and medical professionals in the area had a difficult time obtaining masks. Now, some of the masks that I do hit the medical grade, but I am not sure getting certification for it. That would be too difficult. But they still wanted them, so I’ve been just donating them.” And he’s like, “And the other reason I have this, to be honest, is it’s just good marketing. People just feel good when they see this. And so, I thought it’d be a good idea.” I’m like, “Oh, cool.” And then I asked them, I’m like, “How many other tailors are doing this?” And he started laughing, and he was like, “Nobody does this except me.” And I was like, “Why is that?” He’s like, “Well, the thing is, tailors are not very entrepreneurial. They’re very risk averse. And honestly, what I’m doing, sort of may be questionably legal.” So he’s like, there was twice that police had shown up to talk to him, to see if he’s allowed to turn this into a mask shop or whatever. And once they saw all the thank you letters from the medical community, and they talked to him, they just left again. They’re like, “This is fine. He’s just providing a service. He’s helping the community. It’s cool.” And he had, basically, a bunch of women that would build these masks in his tailor store, and he’s like, “I’ve never been busier in my life. I’m making a ton of money right now, and I don’t feel like I’m taking advantage of people. I’m providing a service, giving people something. I’ve priced my mask. I could price them three times the amount, and people would still buy them, but I priced them at a margin where I feel like I’m making good money, but I’m also fair, they’re still affordable to people, and I’m just raking in it.” But the reason why other tailors wouldn’t be doing this is because they’d be too afraid if they allowed or not, if they’d get in trouble, and they’re just not flexible enough to be like, “You know what? Nobody’s going to come into the store to fix their leather shoes right now, but there is a huge demand for an item that nobody has and we could easily provide.” And that was one of my favorite examples of just somebody being creative, being positive, adapting, changing what he’s doing, and crushing it. For weeks, there were lines out of that person’s shop. And the other benefit of that is I’m never going to forget that guy. And I don’t go to the tailor that often, but if I need to, I’m going to him. I’m just going to that store. So that’s one of my small local stories that I really loved and that was inspiring for me to see. [0:06:20] Hiten Shah: Yeah, I’m going to continue the trend. And that’s amazing. I mean, there’s so many levels of that that are amazing. Part of it is he just didn’t let things that he knew would get in the way of other people get in the way of him from doing it. And I think that’s super powerful. I mean, legal or not, he was providing a service and people needed it, or a product and people needed it. And it was their choice whether they took it from him or not. And by donating it, I think he’s definitely skirting a lot of things in a good enough way. And at a time like this, I think it’s difficult for people to get in trouble on some small things like that, and what matters more is that people are taken care of. So on that note, I’ve been most impressed by the amount of restaurants that I’m seeing really iterate, and ones that I was most impressed by are the ones that iterated super early, their whole model, and they started doing take-home meal kits, where you could make that spaghetti that you love from that Italian place at home, and they gave you all the ingredients to do it. So that was what happened really early on, when even food pickup was not acceptable. And that was really crazy to see, even watching them iterate through a few different platforms to help them sell. It was kind of fun to see, just being in tech and all that. And then lately, just the amount of creativity to be able to provide people with food that’s of restaurant quality that you can pick up from restaurants that didn’t do takeout and just watching the menus iterate. You could just tell they were really focused on optimizing their business so that they could survive during this time, and they were iterating it, and kept changing things until they found things that worked, and also used Instagram heavily to do this. And it’s just been impressive to me to watch this. I even saw something else that was interesting, which is, if one restaurant figured it out, what you’d have is, you even had these things where if it was, let’s say, a sweet shop that mostly sold sweets, vegan sweets or something like that, this is the one that comes to mind, they’d go partner with a savory shop, somebody who made sandwiches, for example, and then they’d started bundling them together. And it’s because one of them had an audience and they were already buying from them, and so they decided to basically partner up. And you started seeing all these collaborations, so to speak, starting happening, and combinations of things you could buy. And these were just restaurants doing it. So you saw this almost call to arms, and folks partnering up, and then using Instagram for the marketing, and creating the equivalent of bundling multiple products together and selling it to the audience. Really, really cool. Another thing I’m seeing is just more focus on, “Oh, these are items we use in our kitchen to cook with.” Whether it’s these special canned tomatoes or what have you. And outside of even the meal kits and making your own meals, a bunch of these folks were just selling that stuff. Just for a long time, and I think this is a pretty funny one, but people were selling their excess toilet paper because the commercial category had an oversupply and the consumer one had an under supply. And so they started doing that and necessities, even though they’re a restaurant, but they have these items. That was really cool. Some of them started bundling it with the food. So, “Hey, buy some food, get some toilet paper. Wow.” I think that was really cool. And one other example I’ve had is, there’s a company that I know that that sort of is a pretty popular tea shop in the Bay Area, and they tried some of the iterations around meal kits and stuff like that. They even gave away a certain item every day, whether you bought or not. So they were really community focused. They shut down all that stuff recently, but the reason they shut it down is they’re going to a full on tea box, sell it online from their website model, and they call it going into hibernation. So they’re going into hibernation with their stores and really focusing all their efforts on e-commerce. And I know they’ve been setting that up for the last one or two months, because that takes a little bit of time, but they’ve been doing it really fast. Normally it would be a six month thing for them to figure out how to sell something like a tea box or something like that for people, or tea subscription and stuff like that, just because of branding and things like that. They’re not necessarily the fastest because they really think about a lot of these things and are doing them well. And then, I was actually speaking to them and I just told them, “Do you really need to change the branding? Why don’t you just slap your own current logos on it, and ship it, and just figure out what the actual package is? Or figure out what you put in the package and what people really want, what kind of tea they want on a subscription that they drink regularly.” And they caught on to that, and latched on to that, and basically were able to ship this in a month or two, the whole thing, versus something that I know they would have taken six months to do otherwise. So it’s that hustle, so to speak, that I find important right now. And the ones that seem to be succeeding are the ones that are able to iterate, and figure it out, and think about it that way. [0:12:24] Steli Efti: Yeah. I love that. All right. So I think the last example from my end, and then we’ll wrap up the episode for today. So in a similar vein, basically, a startup that was building and selling mostly stuff that you would wear going to the gym, so their flagship item would be a gym bag that you can also use to go to the office with, so it has all these cool hacks, you have your laptop in there, and phones, and everything, but also the perfect bag for an active professional, somebody that wants to go to the gym and to the office with one bag. That was the main seller, and then they had a bunch of other little items, but it’s all around the idea of going to the gym and going to work. And then COVID hits, and nobody’s going to the gym or to work, so their sales basically went to zero, nobody buying any of these items. And so, what they did then was think, “Okay. We have a customer base. We know these people. These are young professionals. We know that they’re really athletically active. They want to do sports and now they’re stuck home. And we know that they are always self optimizing and trying to improve themselves. What can we do? What can we offer these people to keep generating revenue, to offer a service, or product, or something of that sort?” And I think at first, they tried to figure out if it could come up with some home gym equipment thing, but they quickly realized that all their R&D and development was in such a different direction, there was nothing quickly that they thought they could both come up with and then successfully sell during that time. So they came up with a totally different approach. They sent a survey to the customers, asking them a bunch of questions on what their current struggles and challenges are, what they’re currently interested in, and then they came up with this idea to sell, basically, a, I don’t know what you want to call it, almost like a virtual fitness boot camp of sorts, where what you would do is you would say, “I’m interested in keep improving my body and mind even during these times.” And what I’m going to get is basically a six month coaching program where once a week, I’m on a Zoom call and I’m sharing some of my results and some of the data, and I’m getting coached in these improvements, and there’s going to be different themes. The first month is about sleep and recovery, so they would ship you a sleeping tracker band, and then they would review the data with you, and they’ll give you suggestions on how to improve your sleep. And they’ll check in with you. And then the second month is all about, whatever, nutrition. And then they would have a nutritionist do calls with you and set up a nutrition plan for you, and a shopping plan, and cooking plan and check that. And then the third month was about body workouts, and they’d have this famous body workout guy that gives classes, and does this and that. And there’s all these different… They had products from other vendors that they would ship you and sell you. They had these other experts they would bring in to do coaching sessions, or do webinars of sorts, or something. And then they would have these one-on-one check ins. And it was basically like, “Hey, during the next six months, you can’t go to the gym, you can’t do a lot of things, but maybe this is the time to change your life. And we’re going to go and take a note of everything, from your sleep, to your nutrition, to your workout, to your whatever. There are all kinds of other things.” And they packaged it really nicely. It was just a PDF, but it looked really awesome. And they sent this as a rough idea to a number of people based on the survey results and had a ton of people that wanted to buy it so much that they wouldn’t be able to supply that, because it was much more of a manual service. But it ended up being so successful that it basically is floating the company, it’s paying for everybody’s salaries. It has been super successful, so they have all these great case studies that people are going through the program apparently love it. And it’s kept the company alive and vibrant. And through this process, they’re also now developing all kinds of other ideas for products and other things, because they are doing much closer interaction with their customers than they usually would, where they would just ship them the product, basically, a gym bag. And so, I love that they just creatively went from selling a bag to selling a whole change your life in six months, and using other companies products, other experts, and just packaging this in a way that seemed super appealing to their customers, and that generates so much money that nobody had to get fired, they didn’t have to close shop because they’ve had many months of basically no sales. [0:17:39] Hiten Shah: That’s awesome. That’s a great story. I don’t know a better way to end this. [0:17:45] Steli Efti: Yeah. I think the common theme is really, you said it with hustle. It’s just, there’s people out there that are harder to discourage, that are more creative in their thinking on solutions, that are less inhibited by fears of, is this going to be the wrong step, or is this allowed, or how will people think about this? But they’re just like, “This is a time to get creative, and to get shit done, and to figure out how we’re going to provide value to the world, how we’re going to make money. What do we need to change to survive and thrive in this environment?” And there is a ton of these people out there, and they’re a huge inspiration to all of us. And whenever any of us… And we’re all going to hit a wall here and there during these times. It’s good to remember that with that type of thinking, you can actually create some amazing things, even during difficult times. [0:18:38] Hiten Shah: You said it there. [0:18:39] Steli Efti: There you go. I think that’s it from us for this episode. By the way, if you have a super inspiring example that you’d like to share with us, we love to hear from you, and we can’t hear enough good news these days. So if you want to email us hnshah@gmail.com, steli@close.com. Share your positive stories, your good stories, your awesome stories. We want to hear all of them. Until next time, that’s it from us, [0:19:02] Hiten Shah: See ya. [0:19:03] The post 523: Creating Opportunities in a Time of Crisis appeared first on The Startup Chat with Steli & Hiten.
in today’s episode of the startup chat, Steli and Hiten talk about how to improve cash flow during a crisis. One of the effects of the COVID-19 pandemic is that a lot of businesses are going to have problems with their cash flow. This could be as a result of customer cancellations or non-payments, and how you manage your cashflow in this crisis could make or break your business. In today’s episode, Steli and Hiten talk about what cash flow management is, some things you could do to improve your cash flow, how to manage your cash flow during the crisis and much more. Time Stamped Show Notes: 00:00 About today’s topic. 00:31 Why this topic was chosen. 01:35 Some things you could do to improve your cashflow. 03:54 Why you should talk to a finance expert if you want to learn how to read your P&L statement. 04:17 Why you should look at your P&L statement on regularly. 05:38 Why it’s important to know how much money your company is burning and how much is in the bank. 07:00 The number one thing to understand about cash flow. 07:50 How to manage your cash flow during the crisis. 09:26 How prepayments can help you with your cash flow. 12:08 How cash flow management is a never-ending process. 3 Key Points: Learn how to read a profit and loss statement.Talk to a finance person.Understanding how to read a profit and loss statement is something founders need to know. [0:00:00] Steli Efti: Hey everybody, this is Steli Efti. [0:00:03] Hiten Shah: And this is Hiten Shah. And I’m going to let you say it, Steli. [0:00:06] Steli Efti: Cash is King. [0:00:08] Hiten Shah: Yes. So, that’s what we’re going to talk about on the startup chat today. And yeah. Wow. That statement is more true than ever. [0:00:20] Steli Efti: Never is cash more king during a crisis, right? I mean, it’s always king, but during difficult times, even more so. So, we thought it might be useful for us to just share a couple of things that we have either done ourselves with our businesses or have seen others do successful during these times in order to improve their cash positions, to improve their cashflow, to just strengthen their companies and their startups to financially be able to make it through whatever rough waters we still have ahead of us, right? So for you, if I come to you Hiten and I’m like, “Hey, I have a startup. We have revenue, we have customers, we have costs. We need to improve our cashflow position.” What are the go-to tips that you would give? I know that this is, every case is different, but in general, what’s some of the things that you’ve seen people do, or you’ve done yourselves with your companies that can make a big difference during these times on improving cashflow. [0:01:21] Hiten Shah: Yeah. I mean, Oh God. The reason I say that is, sorry God, but is… Wow. There are founders and business people out there that have said they get confused when they look at a P&L, a profit and loss statement. [0:01:48] Steli Efti: Mm-hmm (affirmative). [0:01:50] Hiten Shah: So, step one, stop saying that. It’s not a tool you need, you just need to go spend the time, get your P&L for dummies book or whatever, and learn how to read a P&L. It is not hard. Full stop. Period. I could teach my ten-year-old how to read a P&L if I needed to. And so, I know I’m getting a little serious about this shit, but man, I get so frustrated when I hear someone tell me that they’re a business person, they’re responsible for cash, and they say that the P&L or whatever accounting statements or whatever confuses them. It’s like, okay, well, it’s your responsibility. This is your job. Managing cash is your job. Even if you have a finance person or whatever, you happen to be lucky enough to have that scale or whatever- [0:03:00] Steli Efti: Hey, Hiten? [0:03:15] Hiten Shah: Like recently, she was reviewing something with me because usually I don’t have to review those things. And we were just reviewing and she literally said, “Do you understand this?” I’m like, “Yeah, I know how to read these, just because I haven’t had to read them like you do every day or every week or whatever,” because she does taxes and manages the finances and all kinds of stuff for all of our businesses, as well as personal. I’m like, “I know how to read it. In fact, I get excited to read these.” So, again, just cash in, cash out, where you’re spending the cash, that’s all a P&L really is. Nothing else. And it’s categorized in a way that might be confusing for you. So, just figure out what those categories are and what they really mean. Because honestly, every company uses those categories slightly differently anyway. Just figure out how you need to use it or how you’re using it. Or go talk to a finance person on your team or an outsourced finance person or whatever, and just make sure that you can ask them the questions to understand what a P&L is and what it means to your business. And even things like accrual accounting and cash base and all that, it’s not hard stuff. It’s stuff you need to know. So, I would even stop this podcast and go figure that shit out if you don’t know, because otherwise, you’re not going to be able to manage cash if you can’t look at statements, if you can’t understand a profit and loss statement, if you can’t get into QuickBooks and at least get to the reports, if not go deeper in. It’s not hard. And it’s frustrating to hear founders and people think it is. And then, also outsource it because that’s when all the problems start when it comes to cash management. So, my big number one thing is just learn how to understand it. And then, the second thing I would say is look at it at least on a monthly basis, if not weekly. Usually monthly is good, but the thing is if whoever’s responsible for it, especially if it’s in QuickBooks and things, they can stall that and not have to look at it for like quarters, even six months because it’s just happening and you have enough cash, let’s say. And I know that sounds absurd, but that’s the norm. So, I force everybody. My wife is kind of forced, so to speak, into making sure we can see it on a monthly basis for every one of our businesses, no matter what. And then, sometimes you might want to look at it weekly. Another thing I would say is, it’s good to have a spreadsheet with the expenses in them that isn’t in a P&L format and have some level of hygiene of keeping that up to date, because one other important thing, which if you don’t have it at the top of your head is you always want to know how much your company is burning every month and how much is in the bank. You want that idea. You want to know a rough idea of that, if not a specific idea of that. If you don’t have that, that’s a problem too. So, it’s not just about these times. I think this is the most ridiculous thing that I’ve heard from people. And I hear it way more than Steli you might imagine. And maybe you’ve heard it a lot too. So anyway, that’s my mini rant. To start. [0:06:18] Steli Efti: Nice. I love it. All right. So, I mean everything you said I would sign. I don’t hear this as much because people don’t come with that kind of advice to me usually. But, I’m not surprised about it at all. So, step one, get financially literate, right? The best time was 20 years ago to plant a tree; second best times’ today, the old Chinese proverb. So, it would have been great for you to be proficient in these things when you started the business. But if you haven’t, today’s the second best day to get started with this. And the second thing that you said that I want to highlight is, you want to check those numbers. I mean, during this time, I would highly encourage people to do that more frequently than you would usually, more frequently than you’re comfortable with, whatever that is, right? If you used to check them monthly, check them bi-weekly now. If you used to check them bi-weekly, maybe you should check them weekly right now. But just do it at a higher frequency. Make sure you are very much on top of your numbers, so that if things start going astray, you see that coming way ahead of time and you can act and course correct, and you don’t figure this out when it’s already too late to do much about it. What I’ll say about cash flow during these times, I mean, this is not rocket science, right? You want as little money to leave the company and the money that leaves the company to leave it as slowly as possible. And you want as much money come into the company and you want it to be coming as fast as possible, right? I mean, this sounds dumb, but this is the basic principle in many ways. So, you need to ask yourself what are all available options for us to keep improving this. And so, on the one hand, when it comes to the money that’s leaving your business, it’s now the time, if you haven’t done this already, to think about, to make a list of all the expenses you have, obviously to ask yourself what is really absolutely crucial and critical. Maybe there’s a bunch of things that we’re not getting real value out of that we should cancel or stop paying for. But then, out of the things that you are getting value from, now’s the time to renegotiate. Now’s the time to see, can we get a discount? Can we get a lower price? Can we get more favorable payment terms where we don’t pay month over month. Maybe, at least the next three months, we can kind of swap out. A lot of gym memberships did this, where when you have a gym membership, but you can’t go to the gym. So what did they do? They’re like, “We’ll keep charging you, but your membership is going to be extended. So, it doesn’t end on that date. For every month you pay, we extend it,” right? So you want to negotiate with any vendor that you have on price and on payment terms. And then, the other thing I’ll say is, especially if the times are tough, you’re going to want to keep renegotiating this. This is not a one and done. This is not a, “We approach this vendor, they said no and so we tried our best.” Try again in two weeks. Try again two weeks later. Make more cases. Have your mom email them and call them. Have an investor tweet about it. Just keep going at it. You’d be surprised how many times I’ve gotten a yes after I got a hundred no’s before from the same person, or how something that started as the best thing we could offer is a 5% discount ended at a 25% discount, right? So, you just have to be very persistent here and realize that just because you negotiated something this month, you’re not done. You should keep working at these within reason, obviously, over the next year for sure. And then, on the flip side of the revenue side, it’s a very simple thing. Try to encourage as many of your customers as possible to prepay you or pay you a larger chunk upfront as possible by giving them, potentially, a really good deal, right? So, I think I mentioned this in a prior episode where… We did this end of February, we decided longterm contracts that are paid monthly are worthless in an instable world, where customers are going to go out of business. Cash is king in a crisis. So, what we’re going to do is we’re going to offer our customers no contracts anymore for a better price if they pay monthly only for prepays, but we’re going to make these prepaid deals really, really sweet. And we’re going to tell them, “Hey, right now times are really tough and insecure and instable, but you’re going to get an amazing deal if you prepay.” If you wait until the world is sane again, you’ll pay what everybody else is paying. And surprisingly, shockingly, an insane amount of customers chose that. They were excited about that. February we had our biggest prepay month in history. March beat February, was the new record of prepays in company history. May, for four months in a row, we had record prepays, right? And we made a significant difference in our capital position as a business. And it was not rocket science. It didn’t need hard convincing or any kind of crazy tactic. We just offered people a very simple, straightforward deal. And for a long time, they decided they wanted to have it. So, think about what you can do to get more cash upfront and make these offers. Way too many founders are too scared to even propose something like this, because they are afraid of the reaction of people. And when it comes to the cost that you have, just try to figure out what is the way that we can cut down costs and what is a way that we can slow down the payment of these obligations. Anything within reason. But if you stay on these two lanes of thought and you just keep going at it every month, every other month, you’re going to be in much better shape than a lot of companies that either do nothing about this and then have to, all of a sudden, fire 50% of their employees, or that do a little bit timid action in the early days. And then, they’re like, “Well, we tried our best and this is what we were able to do.” No, it’s not good enough. Just keep trying. This never stops. Cashflow is not a flow, it’s a river; it never ends. You keep having to peddle it and work it. So, if you have that attitude and approach, you’re going to be in a much better position than many other companies in your space that might be too slow, too timid and not aggressive enough around cashflow. [0:12:44] Hiten Shah: Yeah. I couldn’t agree more. I think all those tips are super valid. I’ll give one on my end. There’s a lot of stuff out there around negotiation and all that kind of stuff. I think when it comes to cashflow, there’s a lot of typical things that you do, like getting payments up front, things like that. But the thing that I see, kind of near and dear to my heart too at this point, is in many organizations, there are probably hundreds, if not thousands of dollars, especially even in smaller ones that could be saved every month, just that looking at what are the different tools that the company is using, and just determining whether they’re really important or not, and cutting them. I know it sounds weird because it sounds obvious, but we just don’t do it regularly. My brother-in-law and co-founder on a few things, Neil, he’s looking at that sheet, not sheet, but those statements every week and trying to prune constantly in the businesses that he’s running and responsible for. And that habit, I think, is very healthy and can save you hundreds, if not thousands of dollars a month, pretty quickly. Another area where this is actually a bigger deal is it happens to be on in software companies on the Amazon Web Services side. The number of times that I’ve found companies, as well as my own, have essentially instances and servers and things like that, that are just extra sitting there, running and being charged for them, it’s pretty ridiculous. [0:14:34] Steli Efti: Yep. [0:14:35] Hiten Shah: I bet if anyone on the call running a software company, if you haven’t talked to your head of engineering and asked them about AWS and found a way to spend some time doing an audit, we’ve had times when we’ve hired a DevOps person at the company and a person who’s not inexpensive, they were able to pay back their salary within a month off of the infrastructure savings, just because they put their time and energy for a whole month and just digging into all that and figuring it out. And that ends up being like four or five figures for a lot of companies, if they can save on those hosting costs, because that’s just what it’s called now, but it’s really just Amazon Web Services or Google Cloud or Microsoft Azure. It’s just so easy to spin these up and almost any engineer can. So those are hidden costs that I think a lot of us that might be not nontechnical just assume, “Hey, that’s the cost, that’s the cost.” That being said, if an engineer is asked to dig into it, I’m sure they can figure out a lot more about it than just, “Oh yeah, that’s the cost, that’s a cost.” And can then help make trade offs. Even trade offs on the customer experience sometimes. We’re like, “Hey, if we reduce the servers here, there might be a little bit of slowness over here on the interface. Is that okay?” Right? Even just having the discussion can be really, really valuable. This is the discussion I would have first, if I were running a software company, looking to manage costs, which is everybody basically now. [0:16:05] Steli Efti: Love it. All right. I think that this is it from us for this episode on improving cashflow. If you listen to us and something we said scared you or excited you, or you want more advice, more feedback on how to put your startup, your company in a better cashflow position, reach out to us. Hitenshah@gmail.com, steli@close.com. We always love to hear from you. It’d be even more helpful if we can. Until next time, cash is king [0:16:31] Hiten Shah: Cash is king. [0:16:32] Steli Efti: There you go. That’s it from us. We’ll be here soon. Bye-bye. [0:16:36] Hiten Shah: Bye. [0:16:36]The post 522: How to Improve Cashflow During a Crisis appeared first on The Startup Chat with Steli & Hiten.
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Creator Details

Episode Count
554
Podcast Count
8
Total Airtime
3 days, 48 minutes
PCID
Podchaser Creator ID logo 877445