0:00

Hi there. I'm Zach Raff and I'm Donald Phason.

0:02

We're real life best friends, but we

0:04

met playing fake life best friends

0:07

Turk and j D on the sitcom Scrubs.

0:09

Twenty years later, we've decided to rewatch

0:11

the series one episode at a time and

0:13

put our memories into a podcast

0:16

you can listen to at home. We're gonna get all our

0:18

special guest friends like Sarah Chalk,

0:20

John c McGinley, Neil Flynn, Judy

0:22

Reyes, show creator Bill Lawrence,

0:25

editors, writers, and even prop

0:27

masters would tell us about what inspired

0:29

the series and how we became a family.

0:32

You can listen to the podcast Fake Doctors,

0:34

Real Friends with Zack and Donald on the

0:36

I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast,

0:38

and wherever you get your podcasts. Hello,

0:58

Hello, Hello, Welcome to two thousand twenty,

1:01

even though technically I welcome to you last week, but

1:03

you're listening to Hunterbirds of Lists, the podcast

1:06

in the year twenties twenty. It's just so weird to

1:08

say that and also sign your checks

1:11

if you still write checks. But I know it sounds weird,

1:13

but um yeah, because I guess people

1:15

who commit fraud can just write, you

1:17

know, like twenty and then add another year onto

1:19

their like or something. So anyways,

1:22

just a little helpful tip that I saw out

1:24

there on the internets. I'm your host, Ray

1:26

Harkins. We are doing the damn thing

1:28

again like we always do.

1:31

This is just, uh it's It

1:33

continually blows my mind how

1:36

much of a life this podcast has gotten,

1:39

the legs it's gotten, how long I've been able to do it.

1:41

And I just want to thank you the listener for supporting

1:43

the show as you always do by downloading

1:45

this, telling your friends and leaving reviews

1:48

on Apple Podcasts and all the other fun stuff.

1:50

So I just really appreciate that. And the guests this week

1:53

is Ben Cook from No Warning

1:55

is his sort of solo project.

1:58

Well it's not sort of. It is a solo project

2:00

young of and he also plays and fucked Up. He

2:03

is a very prolific and interesting

2:05

musician who has dabbled in

2:07

so many different things in his life and

2:10

uh yeah, he just a creative individual. And

2:12

when the opportunity came to have him on the show, I was

2:14

like, heck, yeah, I would love to have Ben. So

2:17

we talk about so many fun things and

2:19

uh yeah, that's what we're gonna do in a minute. But First

2:21

of all, you need to go support this show

2:23

even further. Okay, please just go on your

2:25

favorite podcast catcher listener

2:27

and give some reviews because that just

2:29

helps in the visibility. It doesn't really help on like charts

2:32

or any other weird stuff, but you know, when

2:34

you give good reviews, more people trust

2:36

the thing. So please do that. And you can also

2:38

email the show one hundred words podcast at gmail

2:41

dot com. Always love to hear guest ideas

2:43

and anything else feedback you have on shows,

2:45

because sometimes, you know, I put on an episode

2:48

and I don't get any emails and I'm like, well that that one didn't

2:50

go very well, or maybe

2:52

you really liked it, and you just you know, we're afraid to reach

2:54

out, but don't be afraid to reach out. I love talking to you.

2:57

But um, yeah, so that's what

2:59

we got. How am I doing. Thank you for asking.

3:01

I'm doing well. Uh. The new year

3:03

is upon us and we're back into the swing

3:05

of things and the routine and school and

3:08

work and all that other stuff. And tell

3:10

me this, I was was thinking

3:12

about this this morning. Compartmentalization.

3:14

You know, I have

3:16

always found myself being really good at

3:18

that, Like you know, certain areas of my life, don't

3:21

affect me in ways

3:23

that or affect me in area other areas

3:25

of my life. But now on the

3:27

precipice of all of these things

3:29

that are happening in the world, from like you know, Australia

3:32

burning up to you know, the United States being

3:34

on the verge of war three, I

3:36

I laugh because like, I don't know what else

3:38

to do there, But I

3:41

just am having a more difficult time being

3:43

able to kind of parse these things out and

3:45

be able to like not let them affect

3:47

my sort of day to day thought process

3:49

or like, oh man, I shouldn't be concerned

3:52

about this, or I don't know, but is that

3:54

of a symptom of aging, Like

3:56

are you able to do that better when you're younger and

3:58

you just maybe don't care about as much?

4:00

I don't know, tell me, because I was, I was

4:02

thinking about that, and I'm just having a difficult

4:05

time as I get older. Um so yeah,

4:07

email the show one under Words podcast at gmail dot

4:09

com. Would love to hear your feedback or thoughts

4:11

or if you notice that in yourself or you're like no, right,

4:14

you're just You're just a weirdo and I'm able to compartmentalize

4:16

still. So anyways, Ben

4:19

just just great guest. I mean, he

4:22

child actor. We were able to dive into

4:24

that because he did a lot of acting when he was a

4:26

young, young kiddo and commercials and television

4:28

shows and all that stuff. And then um, yeah, he's just a

4:31

great musician as well, has been able to do

4:33

some great stuff with no warning. And then young

4:35

of is awesome, and all this stuff

4:37

was funked up. I'm a a super fan of fucked

4:40

up and uh yeah, I just love

4:42

to have him on the show. So this is what got He

4:44

recorded in his car. He was kind enough

4:46

to just like, you know, sit in his car on the Toronto

4:48

streets. And actually, at one point a

4:51

homeless person came up and solicited

4:53

some cash from him, at which I

4:56

edited out of the episode. But he was

4:58

kind and he gave that person two

5:00

dollars. So there we go. Uh, loney

5:02

and a tuney or two tuney or wait, one tuney

5:05

and two Looney's. I think that's that's the proper

5:07

Canadian uh, the

5:09

Canadian fund verbiage. But anyways,

5:12

here's Ben, and I will of course talk to you as

5:14

the episode is over. Yeah,

5:19

I'm far and

5:31

I'm fairly certain that we met, like

5:33

totally in passing. Uh Joey

5:36

K. Hill from six three one, as you know, one

5:38

of my good friends and I lived at the six on three one

5:40

house, So I'm fairly certain you guys crashed there

5:42

multiple times, and I think, you know, it

5:45

was one of those like one am, like oh

5:47

hey, what's up, dude, Hey, how's it going, man? And then

5:49

like you went to sleep so in

5:52

the bed in the bay, uh no, down

5:54

in Orange County like the six one three on Record's

5:56

house, like down in honey to Beach. I think, yeah,

6:00

sucked up and maybe I was in the band. Maybe

6:02

I wasn't. But you know, my memory

6:04

is so mushy that I

6:06

believe that we definitely met

6:08

at that house. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I

6:10

I don't I don't blame you, like I said, I think at

6:12

one point, I think there was a it was a hilarious

6:15

evening in which we had

6:18

It's like all three of our roommates invited

6:20

bands over. So it was like, you guys, alexis on

6:22

fire and there was someone else

6:25

and it was like there's like forty people staying in the house, which

6:27

was ridiculous. But you know that

6:29

I was stuff. But it sounds like you guys

6:31

had an interesting living situation. Well,

6:33

you know, we were. We were definitely the punk house,

6:35

but it was like totally the suburb. So it

6:38

was like, you know, very very nice

6:40

from that perspective, but a nice

6:42

one. I'm a fan of the nice punk houses.

6:44

It's the only way to go. Manah, You've got some nice, nice

6:47

shower products and everything. Yeah, the

6:49

espresso in the morning, let's go exactly.

6:52

Um. But you know, just to kind of observing

6:54

you from a distance, you've only struck me as

6:56

the sort of person that regard

7:00

us of what people think. From an artistic

7:02

perspective, you just like to put it out there, whether

7:04

or not anybody likes it. You could, I mean,

7:06

you care to a certain extent, but not to the point

7:09

that that would obviously curb your creative

7:11

output. Um, I'm going to guess

7:13

that's a correct characterization. Or if

7:15

I just you know, placing that on

7:17

you unfairly, Yeah,

7:21

I definitely, I guess. I

7:24

guess I don't care. Yeah, I

7:26

don't care enough that I that it's going to stop

7:28

me from doing what I what I want to

7:30

what I want to do, and like obviously I care,

7:33

you know, I appreciate when people like it,

7:35

and like some you know, if someone says something you

7:37

know, I like negative

7:39

or something it's hard not to take personally. You know,

7:42

I'm a sensitive guy inside as well. But

7:44

yeah, I just kind of like, I

7:46

don't know, just like I'm

7:48

just like trucking along and trying

7:51

not to overthink everything because I kind of

7:53

I kind of you know when when I

7:55

see other people overthinking stuff, and you know,

7:57

it's like it's sad in a way because

7:59

there's a lot of you know, stuff that's never

8:01

going to see the light of day because of that. So

8:03

I try and be aware of that in

8:06

my my own work

8:08

and my own self. And also I've I've

8:10

been like always tried to help

8:12

others through that, you know, whether they're like younger

8:15

bands or like, you know, just like confused

8:17

artists in the world of confusing music

8:20

and fucking Spotify culture

8:23

and all this ship. So

8:25

I guess when did you kind of notice that,

8:29

you know, you you recognize that in yourself

8:31

where it's like, okay, I need to turn down that,

8:34

you know, whatever the outside influence

8:36

I mean, because like you said, no one is immune to it.

8:38

You always are going to hear certain things about,

8:40

you know, the way that people think about your art

8:42

and be like, oh man, that's a bummer. But when

8:45

did you, I guess, kind of try to

8:47

put up a little bit of a barrier between that and

8:49

obviously your output. Um.

8:53

I guess it started when I was in a hardcore band called

8:55

No Warning that's still going.

8:57

But yeah, I kind of always

8:59

had like a bit of like, like I

9:02

guess, maybe like a confrontational way

9:04

of dealing with like insecurities as

9:06

an artist. You know, I've always had a little bit of a chip

9:08

on my shoulder because of that band,

9:10

because of kind of the way it was initially

9:13

received, especially in America. We

9:15

were we were kind of doing something that you know

9:17

a lot of people weren't doing, you know, for

9:20

you know, our generation of like the hardcore

9:22

scene. And uh, you know when we

9:24

released some of our music, which we you know, we

9:27

really really you know thought was you

9:30

know, our best efforts, it was,

9:33

and we we all we really believe that it would be you

9:35

know, had we not been from Canada or not been

9:37

from you know where we come from, maybe from

9:39

Boston or another cooler city at the time,

9:42

UM, we thought

9:44

that we would have been a bit more well received.

9:46

But when we released our record called

9:48

Ill Blood, a lot of people, uh,

9:51

you know, they we had some groove elements

9:53

in it that you know that we're that we're being

9:55

confused with like new Metal um,

9:57

even though you know, we pretty much dropped in new

10:00

metal album after that one UM,

10:02

which sucked. But yeah, so like

10:05

hardcore people were just like, man, this is not

10:07

this is this is whack fuck this band

10:10

And it was about It was around

10:12

then where I kind of like got my I

10:15

built a wall around like what people

10:17

you know, started to say around you sorted

10:20

to say about your your

10:22

creations, and you

10:24

know, it was babe. I definitely handled it in more of

10:26

an aggressive way, sometimes more of a you

10:29

know, like I was a young seventeen year old

10:31

male, you know, so I was like and

10:34

you know, I handled it in a confrontational,

10:36

aggressive way. Sometimes I would, you

10:38

know, um,

10:41

attack first in a way, you know what

10:43

I mean. So it'll maybe it all stem from

10:45

from that and having the you

10:48

know, having to work a little harder as a Canadian

10:50

band at the time, um,

10:52

you know, and then eventually, like you know, five or

10:55

five or eight years later, you know, people

10:57

kind of caught up with that record, and you know, we were able

10:59

to eventually place shows, but it

11:01

wasn't until maybe fifteen twenty

11:03

years later that we actually came back to place

11:05

shows with that band and kind of saw

11:08

the actual effect that it did

11:10

have. And you know, we had a hard time believing that it did

11:12

have an effect until we're like, oh, people

11:15

like our stuff, like, we don't remember that

11:17

being that way, Like no one was ever other shows

11:19

and uh and people are like,

11:21

yeah, you've influenced a lot of bands and stuff. We're like,

11:23

okay, whatever. And then when we came back and started

11:25

playing these shows about five years ago, we definitely

11:28

saw a completely

11:30

different vibe. Right. Well,

11:33

it is interesting because I mean, I definitely, uh,

11:36

you know, do remember the interests

11:38

in no warning from I mean being from southern

11:40

California. There definitely was a lot of people who you

11:42

know, jumped on that train, and

11:45

you know, to your point of kind of the chip on

11:47

your shoulder, there is that element,

11:50

especially within the context of punk and hardcore,

11:52

that if a band is perceived

11:54

to you know, rise to the

11:57

top, you know, quicker than what

11:59

you know that the quote unquote critics would

12:01

like then you you know, there's that chip

12:04

on your shoulder as well, where it's just like, well, yeah, we're a hard

12:06

working band, but like you know, we didn't just like

12:08

overnight become a quote unquote hype band, you

12:10

know whatever that may be. Um, And so I

12:12

could see what you're talking about where it's like, oh,

12:15

wow, I guess I guess people did

12:17

like us, because you know, like for what

12:19

our experience was it, you know, it didn't

12:21

seem that way. Yeah. It was

12:23

one of those things where it was like I used

12:26

to call it like the five year factor, and

12:28

like, you know, it kind of happened with Fucked Up as well,

12:30

Like Sucked Up we're playing around for a long time,

12:32

and like, especially in Toronto, I didn't

12:34

really have that much of a perception of what

12:37

they were being received like in

12:39

other places, because I wasn't in the band at the time, but

12:41

you know, I was a big fan of Fucked Up and I would see

12:44

them play all these really small shows

12:46

in Toronto and you know, nobody, nobody

12:48

cared and it was just like so frustrating to watch

12:50

them, Like wow, this band is so amazing,

12:53

and like their records are so cool, and like

12:55

you know and so smart and

12:58

and it really did, but it was about it took about five

13:01

years until like you know, people in America

13:04

kind of started to catch on and then Toronto eventually

13:06

caught on. And it's kind of similar

13:08

with no warning, but we didn't have any patients

13:10

fucked up, you know, sunked up still going and suked

13:13

up over patient with it and you know, worked

13:15

super hard. Um no warning.

13:17

We just kind of were like, oh,

13:19

okay, this is what you guys have to

13:21

say. Okay, we're going to sign to Warner Brothers

13:25

and fuck all of you and

13:28

basically almost destroy our

13:30

careers in music. Right. Yeah,

13:33

Well so we were like sensitive little

13:36

ship understood,

13:38

and I'll pick up that scab a little bit later.

13:40

But the what

13:42

I you because there's you know, a lot of biographical

13:45

information that I'll just kind of you know, gloss right over because

13:47

I think you know, you've repeated it, uh, you know, a

13:49

million times in a bunch of different places. But

13:51

I know, you know, you were born and raised in the essentially

13:54

in the Toronto area, right for the lower

13:57

QBW. Yeah

13:59

exactly. I was worn in like the East End, which

14:01

is like pretty much like ten minutes from the Downtown

14:03

Center. Sure, sure, and uh,

14:05

you know, I know that everyone is always like, oh dude,

14:07

you're a child actor, Like that's so crazy,

14:10

man, I can't believe you made it out of that. But like you

14:12

know, clearly a child actor in Canada

14:14

is a lot different than a child actor here

14:16

in America because you know, the pop

14:19

culture landscape is littered with people who obviously

14:21

did not, um, you know, be

14:23

able to make it out of that child actor syndrome.

14:26

And I'm sure, I mean, I'm sure

14:28

in retrospect you're you're glad that you

14:30

have that experience because I'm sure it gave you, you know, some

14:33

level of confidence in certain respects.

14:35

Um, But is it just weird to reflect on that now,

14:38

being like, oh wow, that was that was a funny experience.

14:42

It is kind of weird, but you know, everything reflecting

14:45

on everything in in your

14:47

life feels weird. It doesn't really feel

14:49

weirder than anything else that I've done, because

14:51

I've kind of had like an interesting you

14:54

know, go at it so far with

14:56

you know, all the bands that have played in all the traveling,

14:58

you know, the the acting.

15:00

The child acting thing was it was kind of like

15:02

a means for me to you know, make money

15:05

and afford to do what I really want to do, which

15:07

was which was due music and like do this

15:09

punk stuff for some reason. And

15:11

my mom wasn't really able to afford to

15:14

help out with any recording

15:16

gear amps or anything like that, so it kind of like

15:19

funded that stuff

15:21

and it. But yeah, it definitely

15:24

get It definitely instilled a like

15:27

a work day on me that you

15:30

know, I wouldn't have experienced until you know, later

15:32

in my teens probably or like you know, your mid

15:34

teams, like working like you know,

15:36

when you're like ten or eleven, like

15:38

you're not really like accustomed to

15:41

working a twelve, twelve, fourteen

15:43

hour day, you know. Actually,

15:45

no, it probably wasn't that long sin I would have been illegal for

15:47

a child in the Union,

15:50

but yeah, it was you know, eight to ten hour days and then

15:52

you know, and I do, I do look back on that and definitely

15:54

value it because I'm not, like, you

15:56

know, I've always gone really

15:58

hard in the studio and like, you know, a twelve hour day

16:01

in the studio for two weeks straight isn't I

16:04

don't, you know, I guess I feel a little burnt

16:06

at the end, but it's not like it. I

16:09

also love being in the studio, but yeah,

16:11

I mean it helped me basically helped

16:14

me help my mom buy a house, a

16:17

little bungalow in the East End where

16:20

I grew up. And then uh, and then I quit and

16:23

I kind of regret it because the money

16:25

is so good and now adds like an older person,

16:27

you're like, damn, okay,

16:30

that was that was pretty that was pretty

16:32

nice. Um, but yeah it

16:35

did you like you know, when you because I, like you

16:37

said, you know, he stepped out of it. Was it really

16:39

one of those things where it's like, you know, you

16:41

kind of woke up one day and you're just like,

16:44

yeah, mom, I'm not going to do this anymore.

16:46

Like was that you know, did you have like a discussion

16:48

about it. Was that like kind of a you know, a

16:51

long process that you were mulling over or

16:53

was it pretty much just like, dude, this sucks now, Like

16:55

I really just want to you know, play guitar and punk bands or whatever.

16:59

Yeah, it was like I was kind of mulling it

17:01

over for a year, and I would I

17:03

would. You know, I'm pretty close to my mom. You know,

17:05

she's she's a mom, but she was also, you know,

17:07

we're also really close, you know, friends,

17:10

and you know, I just grew up with my mom and my brother,

17:12

so we were all like pretty tight little team.

17:15

So I would be and she was a cool mom, you

17:17

know, she was she'd understand, you know, if I

17:19

was like, I don't want to

17:21

do this. It is so annoying.

17:23

I don't like any of these actors. They're corny

17:25

as hell. I'm, for some reason

17:28

a fourteen year old into like this punk

17:30

subculture and getting into it pretty

17:32

quickly, and that's not helping me with

17:34

all the corny vibes because you know, I'm starting

17:36

to feel like this like angsty

17:40

youth who needs to rebel against

17:42

what's going on. So she kind

17:44

of eventually was just like, you know what if you don't

17:46

want to do it, and and

17:49

I eventually was just like, I'm going to do a few more jobs

17:51

because I know, I understand the value

17:54

of like money, and

17:56

you know, we don't you know, we're not rich and I'm

17:59

not going to be this little blonde a

18:01

little shit forever. Um.

18:05

So yeah, it was just eventually I was just like,

18:08

you know, I'm done, and I called my agent. I

18:10

was like, I'm done. I was always obsessed

18:12

with never not being on the side of a bus.

18:14

For some reason. I was like, I don't want

18:16

to be on an ad on the side of

18:18

a bus, right, that's

18:21

fun. I mean you, that's total

18:23

what I like to call kid logic, where it's like you

18:26

have there are certain things that are really

18:28

meaningful to you and like you know when you're whatever,

18:30

Ted, I love a twelve thirteen like everything

18:33

is life for T and I'm taking the

18:35

bus. I'm taking the bus every single day, and I'm

18:37

like, I don't want to be that guy

18:39

on the bus. It's so it's lame,

18:41

Like look at how it looks like. I

18:44

don't know, I was a little snob, even

18:47

at age thirteen fourteen. Well,

18:50

but that, I mean, that was clearly important to you, because

18:52

I'm sure you know in your the recesses

18:54

of your mind you were just like, oh, that would

18:56

be like, you know, not only am I

18:59

writing on the bus, my face is on the side of Like

19:01

that makes me feel really, really uncomfortable.

19:04

Yeah, I think some of the like maybe

19:07

I don't really want to give

19:09

this to them, but I do think that I was kind

19:11

of tortured a little bit as

19:13

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20:17

the rest of the show early kid and teenager

20:19

as well. And I'm you know, I

20:22

feel for the kids that I punished, but I was also

20:25

punished as well. Yeah. Every

20:27

everyone, everyone gives and takes it in some capacity.

20:31

That's the direct that's the director's cut of that story.

20:33

Yeah, I appreciate that. Um.

20:37

And so you're I forget

20:39

your brother older or younger than you. My

20:42

brothers three years younger than me, okay,

20:45

And so you know, I guess it was kind of them,

20:47

you know, usher or gatekeeper as it were, in

20:49

regards to you know, showing you, uh

20:52

you know, kind of like plunk and hardcore and starting to

20:54

you know, go down that road of independent music.

20:59

Who was it? Yeah that request?

21:01

Yeah? Yeah, like either who wasn't you just trip

21:03

across it? Well?

21:06

No, my best friend Alan who passed

21:08

away a few years ago. Um,

21:10

he is responsible for turning

21:13

me into a guy who is listening

21:15

to Snow. I don't know if anyone everyone's

21:17

familiar with him. Uh

21:22

yeah, So I was super into Snow. I

21:25

was really in the doggy style the album,

21:27

not the physition. Um,

21:30

I don't know about the position yet. And this

21:32

is about great, This is about great four and

21:35

that those are the two things I loved. I also loved

21:37

this this rap band called Hard, this rap

21:40

group Clubs Third Base uh

21:42

and the Dream Warriors, who are I

21:44

believe that's from Toronto. Um, so I was

21:46

on into that. And

21:49

my friend Alan, my best friend growing up. He was always

21:51

kind of like the misfit rocker dude,

21:53

you know, like nerdy and class and just

21:55

like you know, a lot of people picked on it. And

21:58

but here's my best friend since I was too years old,

22:00

so I would you know, I'd be standing up for

22:02

him a little bit here and there, you

22:04

know, doing as best I could to hold

22:07

it down for him. And you know, in return,

22:10

when we hung out, he was showing me. I

22:12

guess it was like Nirvana and the Ramones and

22:16

a little bit of guns and Roses, but that's not really

22:18

that relevant. Um, but yeah,

22:20

that kind of turned me onto guitar music. And then

22:22

it was really quickly that turned into

22:25

finding punk and like, um,

22:29

the Ramones, and I guess it was the time when Green

22:31

Day was really starting to you know, just

22:34

my basket case had probably just dropped

22:36

and and you know it was around

22:38

then, so like as soon as that. As

22:40

soon as I witnessed that it was,

22:44

I was like, Okay, this is my ship. And then I

22:46

was I remember I was I was on an acting job.

22:49

I think maybe I was in grade seven and

22:52

I was in Montreal and

22:54

I was actually by myself, staying in a hotel

22:56

room, really pretty young, on

22:59

this job for three months and the only

23:01

thing I really had to do on my time off was I

23:03

go to the HMV or

23:05

like one of the record stores on St. Katherine

23:08

Um and I would just

23:10

I would just sift through the punk tapes

23:13

and then I kind of just like taught myself a little

23:15

bit. I was like, man, this looks cool, and I was getting

23:17

into like face to face it's like pop punk and stuff

23:19

like that. And then m Yeah.

23:22

Then the next gateway person was Maddie

23:24

Maddie from No Warning who does a project

23:26

called James Matthew seven. Now, who's you know,

23:28

kind of been my my number one, you

23:30

know, apart from Alan, you know, he since passed

23:33

away, but it was always me, Maddie and Allen

23:35

as a little as a bunch of little kids and

23:37

we were just kind of schooling each other.

23:39

But matt really got us into hardcore,

23:42

and Heke was coming from like metal. He was

23:44

like a twisted metal kid who

23:46

was like really in the horror movies and like, you know,

23:48

going into his bedroom you'd feel

23:50

kind of afraid because there was that many horror

23:53

posters. Um yeah

23:55

he was. He was the gateway into into

23:58

some of the darker, darker

24:01

stuff. Sure sure, um

24:03

no. I like that because when you

24:05

do find a group of your friends and you kind

24:07

of all start ping ponging all these brand of influences

24:10

off of one another. Yeah, usually have like you

24:12

know, the pop punk kid, the metal kid,

24:14

and like you know, people kind of have their corners, but then

24:17

all of you kind of pulled each other towards the middle

24:19

where you start to appreciate all

24:21

you know, your your your metal friend all of a sudden

24:23

is like oh yeah, face to face, like yeah,

24:25

I see where they're coming from, Like they got some solos or whatever.

24:28

Yeah, totally. He was super in there, like and you know, yeah,

24:31

it was like that that time in the

24:33

in the young in the young mind where everything

24:35

sounded cool and it was like, you know, a cool time

24:37

to discover things, and you know, it

24:40

was like kind of nineties skate culture was booming,

24:43

like you know, the movie Kids was out and ship

24:45

like that, and it was like, you know, hip hop

24:47

was cool as well. You know, we were getting into that as

24:50

and all that stuff, you know, like Tribe

24:52

called Quest and and and like

24:54

mom Deep and ship like that. Um,

24:57

and we're getting into a lot of stuff through skate videos

24:59

and I'll admit it aggressive

25:02

online rollerblading videos as well, which

25:04

some of us were into. It

25:07

happened that was the time in the place. Man, I'm

25:10

admitting. I'm admitting that publicly. Yeah,

25:12

I was into aggressive in lining

25:14

for about two years in my life. But honestly,

25:17

some of some of those videos had great music.

25:19

Yeah, and uh, I mean it was just

25:22

some good ship. It was just a version of it was

25:24

just a different version of escape video obviously, you

25:27

know, aggressive aliding. But yeah,

25:29

so I just didn't get in age as well. No,

25:32

no, no, I so distinctly remember that.

25:35

You know, I don't know how much of a video game you video

25:37

game kid you were, but they had for the second Genesis,

25:39

they came out with a game called Skitchen in

25:41

which you were you'd get

25:43

on the back of people's bumpers and you would

25:46

ride and it was like the lamest game

25:48

and you could tell where it's like, oh my gosh,

25:50

like they clearly we're obviously trying to capitalize

25:52

on this. And then um, but yeah, that game did

25:54

not did not age well, just like aggressive

25:57

online or aggressive in line rollerblading.

26:00

I think I remember doing that, and I think

26:02

I remember playing that game, and I also remember doing

26:04

that a lot in real

26:06

life. Yeah, exactly. Um.

26:10

And so then you know, as he started to kind

26:12

of you know, have this experience of the

26:14

work, I think that was being instilled with you know, you

26:16

being a child actor and then like you know, I'm sure because

26:18

you were all these huge jobs, you were getting kind of like

26:21

schooled on set and like you know, the

26:23

sort of homeschooling scenario. Yeah,

26:26

I was homeschooled. I was taken out of school a few,

26:28

you know, a few a couple of months a year.

26:30

I was taken out of school. And

26:33

I mean the homes homeschooling on set was it

26:35

was a joke, Like I really didn't have to do that

26:37

much. You know. I would just be like, can

26:40

I just not do this? And you

26:42

can just sign and say I did, and

26:44

eventually I would kind of charm

26:47

whatever tutor was on set enough

26:50

to make it comfortable for me. I

26:52

didn't really you know, I didn't work with high

26:54

school at all really

26:56

or anything beyond past it.

26:59

Um. But yeah, acting definitely didn't help

27:02

me. Um,

27:04

it definitely helped me skyve off in

27:07

all the ways that I wanted to write, right.

27:09

And so, you know, I guess, like once the definitive

27:12

line into sand was drawn, where it's like, okay, music

27:14

is my thing, obviously not acting anymore. Um,

27:16

you know, was there any other sort of I

27:18

guess, aspirations in regards to like, oh,

27:21

well maybe I'll you know, be

27:23

a you know, banker. Of course I'm exaggerating

27:25

because I know that probably would be your idea of fun.

27:28

But you know, was there any other kind of path beyond

27:30

just like, no, music is what I'm gonna do. No,

27:34

Yeah, it was literally nothing. I'm

27:38

I'm kind of lucky that I was never I

27:41

was only sorry I was turning

27:44

my body in a weird way. Um.

27:48

I'm lucky because I know I always knew

27:50

what I wanted to do and it was always going to be

27:52

music, and nothing was ever going to stop me.

27:55

And I was a stubborn little guy,

27:58

and you know, even when I was twelve and it was

28:00

Joe, only me and Alan. Then I was I would

28:02

like, I would, you know, talk to my mom, super

28:05

upset and like, I can't find anyone serious

28:07

enough to be in a band with me. Everyone just wants to

28:09

play covers and not write

28:11

any songs. And she'd she'd

28:13

be like, it's okay. Then

28:15

one day you will find you'll

28:18

you'll bond, and she

28:20

was right, Yeah,

28:22

that's what you're like. And

28:25

I'm sure you also kind of took the same

28:27

sort of discipline that you had in regards

28:30

to you know, a little league pitching or

28:32

whatever they call up in Canada. They call it little league

28:34

in Canada now

28:36

it is called baseball, but

28:38

I'm sure you know they call it they call it t ball

28:41

and then pike and then peewee

28:43

and then bantam. Oh

28:46

I could use this information for you to know. No,

28:48

Well, I always like, I always like those little delineations

28:50

because yeah, generically speaking in America,

28:53

they're always it's like, yeah, you have t ball,

28:56

but then you pretty much go to little league after

28:58

that, like coach pitch or her. Yeah.

29:01

I was always really envious of the

29:03

words little league and how people could

29:05

use it in other parts of the world

29:07

and for some reason as Canadians weren't

29:10

using it. I don't know why. I really don't know why. I

29:12

want to know. Actually, yeah, I

29:15

want to figure that out. So did you take

29:17

that kind of same discipline of like, you know, I

29:20

can't not like I'm gonna kill all these other bands

29:22

or whatever, but like, hey, I'm going to really focus on

29:24

this and like, this is gonna be my thing. Yeah.

29:27

I guess it was like a determination from a

29:30

young age just whatever what I was, whatever

29:32

I was wanting to do it was, I

29:34

wanted to do it super hard. And

29:37

yeah, it kind of definitely transferred into music.

29:39

I was like I had some tragic

29:42

scenarios in baseball, some

29:44

big upsets, and then I was like, you

29:46

know what, I'm done with this sports thing. I'm

29:48

doing music, and kind of just

29:50

like naturally kept

29:52

going. And I was, you know, around fifteen, sixteen

29:54

years old, and then it

29:57

wasn't long before I was in a hardcore band

29:59

and and playing downtown like you know, clubs

30:02

where I definitely shouldn't have been sure,

30:05

um and yeah, and uh yeah

30:07

kind of kind of all it kind of picked up pretty quick.

30:09

Yeah, just in terms of like the hardcore stuff

30:12

totally. Yeah, and playing in bands and just getting immersed in

30:14

the scene and knowing all of the you know, kind

30:16

of places to play and then hey, maybe we should

30:18

record a demo and seven inch and all that other stuff.

30:21

Um yeah, yeah, we were. It was a

30:23

kind of the dawn on the Internet as well. It was like, you

30:25

know, fourteen four modems and stuff,

30:27

and like, you know, the dawn of message

30:29

board cultures as well. So it was like we

30:31

were able to dive into

30:33

all of that, like at the perfect age of like fifteen

30:36

sixteen, and we really just started networking

30:38

with other people. O. They're like d I Y

30:40

promoters who turned out to

30:42

be members of Funked Up, who you know have

30:44

been playing in bands with the Abandoned

30:46

now for fifteen years. So

30:49

yes, it's been pretty cool. In the world

30:51

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30:54

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rest of the show. And as he started to kind of get out

33:28

there and you know, do uh, you

33:30

know limited touring, whether it was like hopping across the

33:32

border playing a buffalo and stuff like that, or you know, going

33:34

up to Montreal. Um, did you, I

33:37

guess, enjoy the experience of tour or

33:40

was that something that you kind of had to, um,

33:42

you know, grow accustomed to. I

33:45

always really like touring and traveling. Like my

33:47

dad, My dad was a trucker. I didn't really like. Hey,

33:50

I didn't really hang with him too hard growing up or anything,

33:52

but that I did. I did go on the odd trips

33:54

with put him as a

33:57

as a sketchy trucker. So I always

33:59

kind of was fond of long trips

34:02

and sleeping in cars and kind of

34:04

like, you know, not really knowing where you are when you

34:06

wake up. So I always always

34:08

kind of remember those trips even now

34:10

when I'm doing when I'm when I'm touring. Yeah,

34:13

it wasn't really until I started touring

34:15

with Fucked Up. No disrespect the fucked Up obviously,

34:17

like they would say the same thing. But you know there's

34:20

certain people in the band and certain dynamics

34:22

in that band that that made touring a little uh

34:25

tense. So I

34:29

in my mind, I was like, man, I hate

34:31

touring now, Like I wasn't. I wasn't blaming

34:33

them. I just thought in my mind

34:35

that I really didn't like it. And

34:38

uh, eventually I kind

34:40

of just snapped out of it. I was like, you know what,

34:42

Like I mean, also, the band

34:45

and our our our dynamics grew up

34:47

a lot, and you know, people got a

34:49

little bit more chill with each other, and you

34:51

know, myself included. You know, I became

34:54

more accepting of things

34:56

and kind of just snapped out of it eventually.

34:58

And you know, the past in years,

35:00

I've really taken

35:02

to touring again and using it

35:04

as kind of like this, you know, being cole to keep

35:06

my life interesting and you know, end up

35:08

in you know, a cool place and stay there

35:10

for a while and just kind of like not

35:13

really take it for granted or be like a grouch

35:15

about things. Um,

35:19

yeah, that's kind of where I'm at still, sure

35:22

Yeah, that makes sense because I mean as

35:24

you tour and you

35:26

kind of go through those ebbs and flows

35:29

of you know, not only from an age perspective,

35:31

but then you know, if you play, you know,

35:33

a bunch of terrible shows in a row, then you're just like, what am

35:35

I doing here? Like I'm spending my wheels and so yeah,

35:37

you're your opinion

35:40

of tour evolves just like most

35:42

people do, and some people don't ever

35:44

consider that. You know, people are just like, oh, yeah, touring

35:46

is awesome because you can see different cities all the time. You're

35:48

like, well, I get to see four blocks in the city.

35:51

That's I don't really get to see the city per se. Yeah,

35:54

it's obviously not as glamorous of some

35:56

people make it out to be. But I don't know, I

35:58

think the reality of touring is pretty well known

36:00

at this point. You know, it's not all like it's you know,

36:03

it's obvious what happens. Everyone knows a musician

36:05

at this point, who's who's done a tour. It's,

36:07

uh, it is what it is. You know, you

36:09

can make it work for yourself or you can you

36:12

can't. So um,

36:15

I'm glad I'm still able to do it, and it

36:17

really does the people around you

36:19

that you know, you can play like small shows. You

36:21

know, I can play like really big shows that funked up or no

36:24

warning, or play like you know, really small shows

36:26

at young or something like that, and it really

36:28

just it's it really the

36:31

people who you're with obviously

36:34

effect the touring the most, and

36:37

uh, it's important to you

36:39

know, continue to work on

36:41

that and like because they can get

36:43

really bad out there, totally

36:46

totally, but it can also

36:48

become really good. Yeah, it can

36:50

slip on a dime pretty quickly, exactly.

36:53

Um, like you were messing

36:56

earlier regards to you know, No Warning and the huge

36:59

zag as took when you know, you were

37:01

signing the Liquing Parks label and you know doing you

37:04

know, Project Revolution Tour and all that stuff. Like you

37:06

know, it was it was interesting

37:08

to watch from a you know, outsider's

37:11

perspective to see the fact that it's

37:13

like to me, I just looked

37:15

at it from the perspective and you're like, Okay, well,

37:18

we had done everything that we, I guess

37:20

theoretically could do within the context of hardcore,

37:22

and it led us down this path of

37:25

these opportunities that don't come to many

37:27

bands, you know, like it's not like it's

37:30

not like other bands gott afforded that opportunity. I

37:32

mean, yes to varying degrees in

37:35

different situations. But to

37:37

me, it just looked like you guys were just writing this

37:39

for what it was. Um,

37:41

I'm gonna guess it was kind of a mixture of that

37:44

thought and then the thought of like, all right,

37:46

well, screw screw the hardcore scene because they've

37:48

been hating on us forever whatever all those other reasons

37:50

we were talking about originally, Um, was

37:52

that kind of correct that you guys were just like, all right, let's

37:55

ride, let's ride this cotail and see where it goes. Yeah,

37:58

we're just kind of going with the flow. And know we didn't.

38:00

It was it was before the time that you know, you

38:03

could you could book a tour

38:05

super easily online or something like that. You know,

38:07

they were like there were challenges for

38:09

for all of us as a young as young financial

38:12

challenges, as young people to

38:15

um get ourselves you know, over

38:17

to Europe or even to the West Coast. You know, we never

38:20

we never did that as a as a quote unquote

38:22

hardcore band until you know, these

38:24

reunion years. Um,

38:27

so you know, having these people,

38:29

whether they have good intentions or not,

38:32

or you know, whether all of them were good or

38:35

some of them were good promising us,

38:39

you know, X amount of money and you know, you

38:41

guys can you guys want to be musicians for

38:43

for a living? Like this is it? And we're

38:45

like, well, yeah, we do, like and that's what I always

38:48

wanted to do. And you know, we were young

38:50

enough that we were just like, fuck it, let's just

38:52

do this and like, you know, if it

38:55

fails, we're still like, you

38:57

know, we could do something else. We're still we can. We

38:59

can we can try again with

39:01

something else, and uh but yeah,

39:04

it was kind of it was a little bit of an of

39:06

of riding on that anchort towards people

39:10

not liking our our

39:12

first record right away, which was kind of

39:14

a huge bomber because we thought it was it

39:17

was good. Um, I mean, we didn't think we

39:19

were like fucking geniuses or anything, but we were like,

39:21

man, we were very hard ship okay,

39:24

well off, yeah, and uh yeah,

39:27

So it was a little bit of all that. Sure, I'm

39:30

sure that there is one or two anecdotal

39:32

moments as you guys were kind of you know, wrapped

39:35

up in a much larger um,

39:37

you know, scene, because you were all of a sudden

39:39

surrounded by people who, you know, like your band,

39:42

that didn't have necessarily

39:44

the attachment that you know, maybe you are due

39:46

to the punk and hardcore scene. You

39:48

know, do you have any sort of anecdotal moments in your head where it was

39:50

just like, whoa, this is really weird that we're

39:53

in the same room with these people, or you

39:55

know that you've got to do the Project Revolution tour.

39:57

I'm sure that there's a moment or two that making you

40:00

us you know, last, not because you're making fun of it,

40:02

but just like, well that's weird. Yeah,

40:05

I mean, all those all the opportunities that we got

40:07

during those years, we're just we're weird and

40:09

might you know, surreal, Like I

40:11

think, I think the most the craziest

40:13

thing that was that was that was going down was that

40:16

we were actually like charting in Japan

40:18

over fifty cent and like we were we

40:20

were like Japan's a strange place,

40:23

you know. We we we went there and

40:25

we were we were like people

40:28

fans were meeting us at the airports, like

40:30

they were like waiting in the hotel lobbies.

40:32

They were waiting at the trains, like we

40:34

were like these like like

40:37

these little stars all of a sudden

40:39

as soon as we landed, and it was really

40:42

surreal, you know. And we were there for two weeks. We

40:44

went back a couple of times, and uh,

40:47

you know, but other than that, it was, you

40:49

know, just a few of these massive

40:52

rock tours, like the Project Revolution tour

40:54

was like Lincoln Park. I mean we

40:56

were just like that was an outdoor tour for like

40:58

two months, and we were like twenty

41:00

year old kids going insane doing like

41:03

you know, going to the Heineken tent every night

41:05

and just like being dick you

41:07

know. Um. So that's

41:10

kind of the general memory of those of

41:12

the American side of everything, you know, for

41:15

the most part, like our plan to cross

41:18

over from hardcore into wherever

41:20

we were trying to go with it completely failed

41:23

and like

41:25

like laughably almost, which is kind

41:28

of what makes it so funny

41:31

to like you know look back on or like sweet

41:34

in a way. Um,

41:36

like, we didn't even get close to any sort of

41:40

record sales or anything like that. These

41:42

you know, big record people thought that

41:44

we might get to, you know, and we

41:46

were like, well, okay, sorry,

41:48

you spent all this money we're

41:52

like, yeah, we're gonna just uh,

41:54

we're just gonna break up now and

41:56

you know, secretly do another band. Um,

41:59

no big deal. Yeah,

42:01

but there there was there was a tour with Papa

42:03

Roach that we did where we were all in a bus and that was

42:06

the phone only time we were ever in a bus,

42:08

and that was just a very that was a

42:10

very special and strange tour because we were

42:12

on we were sharing a bus with their road

42:14

crew who also happened to be motorheads

42:17

road crew. Um, and we're

42:19

like twenty one year old Canadian little

42:21

boys and like sharing a

42:24

bus with you know what some

42:28

of them were crackheads and

42:31

uh yeah, So we were put in this

42:33

situation that not everyone gets

42:35

to vibe with. And you

42:37

know, we made it out alive, obviously, and it was fun

42:39

and everything was There were some early moments

42:41

on that tour, you know, some with

42:43

with older men who we're not

42:45

used to sharing a bus with children,

42:49

right, yeah, yeah, totally

42:53

what are these children doing here? Like we're weathered

42:55

road veterans that just wanted to our to our stuff

42:58

and not be bothered by these peace these

43:00

again children. Yeah, we just want to score

43:02

crack on the corner in Chicago and do it in the back

43:04

of the bus, like why are all these kids around? Um?

43:07

So yeah, that was like, that was an interesting

43:10

vibe. I really enjoyed that tour.

43:12

I gotta say, yeah, that's yeah.

43:14

I'm sure it opened up your eyes in many different

43:16

ways. Um, for sure with

43:20

you know, specifically with Funked Up. It's always been

43:22

interesting because the way that almost

43:24

every single member has spoken

43:26

about the creation of the

43:29

music in the band is that it's a real,

43:31

um, it's a real piece of work. You know, Like

43:34

this is definitely not like, hey, let's just hang

43:36

out for a weekend and you know, we'll crank out our records.

43:38

And granted, of course, the music that you

43:40

guys do create is very um,

43:42

you know, layered, and there's a lot

43:44

going on there beyond just you know, a two minute

43:46

punk song. Clearly, um

43:49

do you um, you know, is

43:52

it one of those things that because of

43:55

the finished product, that all

43:57

the work that you put into it, you're just like, oh

43:59

yeah, and like best sucked and it was hard, but like

44:01

I'm glad we did it this way just because

44:04

I guess we don't no other way to do it, or you

44:06

know, what's your perspective on that. Um

44:11

yeah, I guess it's that like we would, we would do

44:13

it. But when I when I was really there

44:15

were there was about two records that the

44:18

whole band was you know when I

44:20

joined, the whole band was was really

44:22

involved in you know, these last couple

44:24

of records, it's been a little bit more Mike and jone, especially

44:27

the last one. Um

44:29

yeah, we were really making that the

44:33

way of you know, a band would do

44:35

it, like a punk band would do it like we we we

44:37

we went for David the record. David

44:39

comes to life like we were in a practice space

44:42

writing songs together, you

44:45

know, in a tense manner kind

44:48

of sometimes, as it is with Fucked

44:50

Up, I say that I hope I don't sound like

44:52

I'm I'm being disrespect for or

44:54

anything to my funk up family, but you know,

44:56

it is, it is what it is. Um

44:59

yeah, we would be and that we would be in that little tiny

45:02

box for six months writing

45:04

an album and then I

45:08

don't know, it's so disjointed and weird like

45:10

to how the band works. So like my my memories

45:12

of a studio and you know, just like going

45:15

in when it's just me and I

45:17

do my stuff and like no one's in the studio

45:19

together. Um.

45:21

And then the record comes out and it's

45:24

taken so long because it's such a

45:26

massive, you know piece, that

45:29

you're like, wow,

45:32

like we really did that, sir.

45:34

I don't really remember in

45:36

it all, but we've

45:39

made something really cool. Whoa. And then

45:41

you know, you move on and you forget about

45:43

it and you do it again. Yeah.

45:45

Sure, well it's not sure if I'm not sure if I'm

45:47

answering your question. Um, but uh yeah,

45:49

that's kind of like the fun up, funked up way.

45:52

Yeah, no, you tell you you are. I mean it makes

45:54

total sense too, especially when you know now

45:57

the where the band exists that you know,

45:59

you guys are all kind of like piecing this together, you

46:01

know, as you obviously all have individual time

46:03

and stuff like that, and it totally makes sense where like, all

46:05

right, well I did my part and hopefully this all

46:08

goes together. Okay, Yeah,

46:10

no one's going to string it. Someone's going to string it together

46:12

in the end and yeah, and

46:16

that's not going to be me. Um,

46:19

you know, and clearly since you were

46:22

you know, um, you know, bouncing around to all

46:24

of these different you know, musical projects, beyond,

46:26

you know, just just sucked up and no warning.

46:29

Um. You know, and you've kind of built your

46:31

life around the idea of pursuing music.

46:33

Um is it one of those things like you know, as you kind

46:35

of came home from tour, you know, you had a couple hundred

46:37

bucks that you know, last of you for you know whatever

46:40

a couple of weeks, did you just like pick up

46:42

random jobs in between tours? Like, you know what,

46:44

what were you kind of doing too? You know, I guess keep

46:46

yourself afloat um

46:49

during I've had

46:51

odd jobs between tours. I've had a

46:55

couple of years between no warning and sucked

46:57

up where I was just kind of like maybe

47:01

music sucks and I don't even want to do this. I'm

47:03

just gonna like work a normal job funk

47:05

bands, you know, Like I was in that stage.

47:08

Um. I was like twenty five, I think, like, um,

47:11

I managed a like

47:13

a boutique key company

47:15

where I would make all the teas, kind

47:17

of a very fancy tea company, but but run

47:19

out of a like the first floor of

47:21

a like a low income housing um

47:25

projects basically, UM,

47:28

So I would make all these teas and

47:30

I would fulfill the all I would. I would. I would

47:32

fill all the orders and I would deliver them

47:34

to all these really really expensive fancy

47:38

restaurants in Toronto. I did that for about two

47:40

years and just listen to tapes, and

47:43

then an email came after

47:46

I'd done a tour with UM poked

47:48

up in the UK kind of just as a roadie

47:50

slash friend, and they

47:53

were like, you want to join the band on their guitar. We're

47:55

trying of like take this a little bit more seriously, and I'm like,

47:57

yeah, he's not for me. I'll call back to music and

48:01

otherwise I kind of like, you know, acting

48:03

like being in the being an having

48:06

the union membership as an actor

48:08

and kind of reinstating myself in that over

48:11

over the years UM in between

48:13

funked up tours sometimes, you know, sometimes

48:16

in like the early days of when I was in that band,

48:18

I would do a background extra work for

48:21

like kind of union dollars, so it would

48:23

be kind of like a profitable way

48:25

of just sitting around and reading a book

48:27

and eating for free and barely

48:29

doing anything. So yeah, I would. I would do that.

48:32

Otherwise, you

48:34

know, I'm just kind of like figured

48:37

out how to hustle music in various ways.

48:39

And you know, I've been lucky. I've been

48:41

lucky because I know a lot of you know, a lot of my friends

48:44

are musicians and they they're not in the same

48:46

position or you know, they have to you

48:49

know, do illegal things

48:51

or you know, just

48:52

it's it's tough to

48:55

be tough to make money as a musician, obviously.

48:57

Sure, sure, yeah, well it's

49:00

just the hustle of being like, oh yeah, let's let's try

49:02

to piece this together in some capacity that it

49:04

will be able to give me the freedom

49:06

to not only obviously write music, but then to

49:08

be able to you know, leave for to or when I need to and stuff

49:11

like that. So it makes total sense. Yeah,

49:14

totally. I mean, I live in New York now and like

49:16

i'm I'm I'm I'm doing you know, the

49:18

odd thing outside of music as well, um,

49:21

just to be able to kind

49:24

of you know, continue to lead my

49:26

life in an interesting way that continues

49:28

to inspire me to be able to create

49:31

for you know. Sure, and you've

49:33

done I know you've done some like you know, co

49:35

writing, you know, stuff as well with other

49:37

musicians, which I know is always such a interesting

49:40

scenario just because you know, like

49:43

you I've had a lot of different friends that

49:45

have been thrown into rooms with like hey,

49:47

you know, I mean like I

49:49

just we're hearing stories from like you know, Dallas

49:52

from a city and color Lets on Fire and just being

49:54

like, hey, go to this room with this person and it's

49:56

like, you know, oh, we've got three days to write a

49:58

couple of songs. And usually the first days like just

50:00

trying to break the ice of not being weird

50:03

and stuff like that. What's your experience been with that?

50:07

Um,

50:09

I've always done really like kind of like you

50:11

know, quick sessions. They haven't really been

50:14

you know, sitting in this room for three days with this

50:16

person, luckily, because sometimes

50:18

you don't deal with the person or like

50:21

them at all. Um.

50:23

So I've really just come

50:25

in and out of these sessions. Maybe they're like

50:28

you know, five to eight hours, and I'll

50:30

just offer whatever I can at the

50:32

time. You know, it's it's worked out sometimes

50:35

and sometimes it hasn't. You know. I

50:37

did. I did some stuff with some forty one back

50:39

in the day, and I kind of just rolled in.

50:42

They're like, we want this, we wanted to sound

50:44

like this. I'm like, all right, here's the riff.

50:47

Here's the whole song except the chorus, and

50:50

I was just like in my mind, I was like,

50:52

this is horrible, Like I can't

50:55

believe I'm doing this like that. It's for them, so I don't

50:57

care. Um, no disrespect to them, but

50:59

you know, like they from writing for other people. You

51:01

know. I wouldn't have kept it for myself, but

51:03

it seemed like a good idea at the time for some pretty one and actually

51:06

became a successful song. Um. But

51:08

yeah, it was kind of just like that, just like just

51:10

just guessing. It's just a guessing game. Um.

51:12

I had another experience with it with a with a

51:15

like kind of another Canadian

51:17

pop punky thing where I

51:19

won't say who the person is, but I really

51:21

didn't like them. They were really annoying.

51:24

It was this dude just

51:26

really full of himself. Um.

51:29

He kept making farting noises with his mouth

51:31

like really like like

51:33

like really cliche pop punk, you

51:35

know, like he actually was like showing me his

51:37

butt and like doing farting noises

51:39

with his mouth. And I'm like, man, you're like a Blink

51:41

one two song like literally in the

51:43

flesh. Um,

51:46

and I would just I I think I just I jacked

51:48

in Eagles melody over the over

51:51

over a chorus that they had and then I was just like,

51:53

use that, and I was just like I gotta go, and

51:55

I just left and ended up using it. Um,

51:59

that's my favorite thing. My favorite co writing vibes

52:01

is more just like with people who aren't

52:05

necessarily like established artists,

52:07

they're just actually just wanting to create a really

52:09

good song, and like I actually believe

52:11

in them, and whether they, you know, are

52:13

successful or not, it's just a

52:15

pleasure to work with them. You know. I just did a track

52:18

with a person from New York, an artist called

52:20

Sedona. She literally just found

52:22

me, hit me and my friend Anthony

52:24

up who helps me produce the young

52:27

stuff, and she's like, hey, I like some of the songs

52:29

you guys have written. Do you guys want to write a song

52:31

with me? And we were like, you know what, that's

52:33

thick. Yeah we do. And you know, it wasn't

52:35

for money, it was for fun, and we were able to

52:37

write this kind of like bluey pop Madonna

52:39

song for her called more Love, And

52:42

that's kind of my vibe, you know. I'm like, I'm

52:44

not trying to like spash

52:47

down the doors and like modern

52:50

pop because I can't stomach at

52:52

all. You know, it's so like everything just

52:54

sounds like like a latte.

52:57

It's just so like I

52:59

guess you could use the term gentrifiedilla,

53:03

like super vanilla.

53:06

Everything sounds like an algorithm. And it's just

53:08

like there was there was a point where

53:10

I was like really stoked. I was like I

53:12

want to write this song, you know, I want

53:14

to I love this like you

53:17

know, in Sync

53:19

or like you know, even Katy Perry

53:21

or some sh it. I'm like, man, this is like a power pop song.

53:24

This is like this is a pretty cool song.

53:26

Like I would love to just like sit in a room with someone

53:28

and like write something like that sounded like this. But

53:30

now it's like I

53:32

can't really stomach a lot of this stuff. So I'm just like

53:34

I'm not I'm just doing stuff with fun at just at this point,

53:37

right, So yeah, you have going to sign some big

53:39

publishing deal and be like, all right, we gotta I gotta

53:41

write with twelve people this year that are all going to be

53:43

things that I most likely won't

53:45

like. I mean, I

53:48

would do that if it was a big publishing deal, just

53:50

because like that like that's that's a that's

53:53

a kind of scammer that I am, but that's

53:56

actually like to work. Yeah. Yeah, I would

53:58

try and make it work, and I would try my best not to make

54:00

it sound like some like you know, three note algorithm

54:03

pop ship with like a trapped be I would

54:05

try and bring in some sort of cool you

54:08

know, angle on it. I don't know, there's

54:10

there's hope, there's hope. I'm not losing hope

54:12

completely. I still want to do that stuff. It's fun.

54:14

Yeah, No, I feel you, I feel you. Um.

54:17

The last thing I kind of want to hit on was the you

54:20

know, most people that look

54:22

at you know, dunk Of and are just like, oh

54:24

man, it's so crazy that this hardcore dude

54:26

is doing this like you know, R and B rap influenced

54:29

stuff, like you know, almost every single piece

54:31

of press about that since he started putting

54:33

out music is some version of that. UM,

54:36

which is you know, I always find copical because

54:38

usually people that are putting

54:40

out especially when you're an adult, people

54:43

that are sometimes putting out music,

54:46

it's not reflective of either what they've listened

54:49

to. But when you're an adult, you're like, oh no, I actually want

54:51

to put this thing out. You know. It's like some people

54:53

have been playing in their pop punk band for twenty

54:55

years, and of course they're not going to start rapping over

54:57

that because that would bum you know, every

54:59

new on Glory fan out or whatever. You know, It's not like

55:02

they can they can start doing that. Um

55:05

is it one of those things where you basically are are

55:08

just kind of revel in that fact where it's like, oh man,

55:10

I love I love

55:12

subverting what people may think

55:15

that I am doing, and then on

55:17

top of it, this is something that I actually really enjoy

55:19

as well. Yeah.

55:22

I mean it's fun to be sneaky. It's

55:24

fun to like, you know, just like sneak something

55:27

in there. And I don't I don't actually

55:29

know what you're referencing when you say rap and R

55:31

and B, because I don't think I've ever really done Matt personally.

55:33

It's kind of people say that

55:35

people think that The Young Project

55:38

is like a sound cloud rap because it

55:40

has the word word young in it, you

55:42

know, like young Young Lean and young Doug and

55:44

all that stuff. But it's actually not that at

55:46

all. But um

55:50

yeah, I like being I like, you

55:52

know, just I like the Young Project

55:54

because I could just I don't. I still don't. I

55:56

still don't care like

55:59

what people think about it. You know, I can

56:01

do like I dropped a weird you know, computer

56:03

record, and I just dropped the double A nineteen

56:06

song, you know, big cord

56:09

power pop album, and who knows what the

56:11

next one is going to be, and like I

56:13

like it because I don't have a plan.

56:16

I'm not trying to have a plan with it. And I

56:18

never really was. It was never about

56:20

you know, I had I had, I had bands that were

56:22

able to you know, help contribute

56:25

towards my rent and young of was

56:27

always just like something that

56:29

wasn't about that. And I'm still trying to keep

56:31

it that way. You know. If

56:34

it ever became something that, you

56:36

know, it ever was a profit project, that would be

56:38

nice, but it's not my goal of it, you

56:40

know. And if it makes sense, because you know,

56:42

if if you're this kind of um

56:46

sneaky or like you know, a d D or

56:48

just like you know, doing whatever you want

56:51

with the project, like you know, it's gonna it's gonna

56:53

be confusing for you know, an audience

56:55

that's big enough to um

57:00

you know, it's

57:02

I don't think it will ever grow past what it really

57:05

is supposed to be, which is just a small,

57:08

little personal thing that is like you

57:10

know, hopefully you

57:13

know, a meaningful listen.

57:16

Sure, no, totally, I mean I I

57:18

think that's Yeah, It's it's a very

57:21

fair characteristic of because

57:23

I mean, most people expect

57:26

a certain thing to reach a certain

57:28

level of success from the outside, you know, not the person

57:30

that's actually creating it, and then like once

57:33

it gets to kind of a you know, manageable

57:35

level for the artist or the person putting out the creative

57:37

thing, then it's kind of like, oh yeah, like I'm

57:40

fine with it staying here because it coexists

57:42

with all of the other things that I do perfectly.

57:44

I don't need to make it bigger

57:47

because I need to make this thing like my whole

57:49

life, you know. Yeah,

57:51

I mean I'm not saying I'm I'm I'm financial.

57:54

I'm not saying I'm rich or like financially comfortable,

57:56

like it would be amazing with with my other with my

57:58

other band, but you know, they are, they are. They're

58:00

just they're just bigger, bigger projects, and

58:02

like it'll I'm blessed because

58:04

it allows me the freedom to kind of just like

58:07

you know, navigate navigate

58:10

young of with the young, with the young of project

58:12

a little more freely. Um.

58:16

Yeah, it's a weird time with like, you know, everything's

58:18

using numbers and stuff like that, and like I was doing

58:21

this project before views and numbers existed,

58:24

and it's never going to be about that, you

58:26

know, And I'm I'm lucky that that

58:29

I don't have to

58:31

consider that as much as

58:34

then as other people, you know, because I know

58:36

it's so much pressure to just

58:38

like you know, put your music out

58:40

and hit right away or blow up

58:42

or like be some like you know whatever,

58:46

you know, some cloud ship.

58:49

Um, and uh,

58:52

that's not what this is. Yeah, this

58:54

is the this is your personal project, and

58:56

you can take it in any

58:58

direction you want musically where

59:00

it's like yeah, it all you know, it falls under

59:02

the you know, guitar based thing, but

59:05

you know you can do whatever you want with it and bring whoever

59:07

collaborators you want on and you know, just

59:10

guide it at its own pace as like

59:12

you said, as opposed to you know, trying to accelerate it

59:14

because you need to capture some modicum of success.

59:17

Yeah, exactly. It's just kind of like you know, it's

59:19

Young of a K dumb songs from Ben

59:22

Forever. Right, that's good. Well, it should

59:24

that be the title of like most of your projects, right, It's

59:27

like, yeah, it's it's It all

59:30

feels pretty stupid at some point, but you

59:32

know, for some reason, I keep going, well,

59:34

I just I mean, I like it. And it's

59:36

weird too, because there's always this this um

59:39

you know, if you're involved in the project, like you know, I remember

59:41

when Marvel star Link is obviously starting to release

59:43

some seven inches, it was like, oh dude, it's been

59:46

from no warnings like garage garage

59:48

band, and like everything is always attached

59:51

to, you know, the particular style, which, of course

59:53

that is a very gross oversimplification

59:55

of what Marvel Starlings were doing. But um,

59:58

you know, everybody there, they're is this

1:00:00

like aura, a mystique where it's like, oh dude, Ben,

1:00:02

Ben's throwing the baby a with the out with the bathwater

1:00:05

again. He's starting something completely new and it's gonna

1:00:07

blow your hair back or whatever. You know. It's just I

1:00:09

just find it interesting that there's this like a

1:00:11

nigma about you where it's like, what's been gonna do next?

1:00:15

Yeah, it's pretty cringe sometimes to read,

1:00:17

like you know, yeah,

1:00:22

I guess it's that I don't

1:00:24

know, maybe I guess that's

1:00:26

that's cool. I don't know when I read

1:00:28

stuff. When I don't know, it's just like I'm

1:00:31

really trying to read what anyone writes or anything

1:00:33

like, you know, and it's always going to be Ben from

1:00:35

the Warning or Ben from Fucked Up, like

1:00:37

a Young Gug project. And I understand like they

1:00:39

need to like writers

1:00:42

need to like follow a certain formula and say

1:00:44

it sounds like what they think it sounds

1:00:46

like. I just like it's just so boring.

1:00:49

But I guess it's because it's such like at

1:00:51

this point it's such a low paying kind

1:00:53

of like um

1:00:56

low paying kind of not

1:00:59

really like popular form

1:01:02

of media anymore, that

1:01:05

they just hire people

1:01:07

who don't really like aren't going to be

1:01:09

like necessarily

1:01:11

a cool

1:01:14

critical culture. I guess we would say,

1:01:16

you know, which is like yeah,

1:01:21

which explains why, like everything every

1:01:23

time I release something that just like the

1:01:25

writing and the press just gets just

1:01:28

more cringe. I'm

1:01:30

not trying to sound like a dick. I'm not trying to sound like a ranting.

1:01:32

I appreciate people listening, but it's just like that's

1:01:35

just my take on it. You know, like people

1:01:37

can you know, review my record and

1:01:39

that's cool about you know, that's my review

1:01:41

on the current state of music journalism. It's

1:01:44

like it's horrid right

1:01:47

well, especially to where most of the

1:01:49

times, I mean from my past

1:01:51

experience and dabbling and you know, journalism

1:01:53

because I definitely don't need this podcast as journalism

1:01:56

is the you know a lot of times people just get emailed

1:01:58

the list of like, hey, here's one the artists that we're

1:02:00

covering, like do you want to write a piece on

1:02:02

this? And you know, maybe like three artists

1:02:05

gets picked, and then there's seventeen others

1:02:07

that get assigned and then yeah, you're left with kind

1:02:09

of the oh this guy was in No

1:02:12

Warning and a band called st Up

1:02:14

and then yeah, you just getting still lowest

1:02:16

taking fruit like you were talking about. Yeah,

1:02:19

it's just it is what it is. It's not it's not something

1:02:22

to like, you know, no talk too much about

1:02:24

it, be too negative about. It's just like I'm

1:02:26

kind of just chirping my mouth off at this point.

1:02:28

But it feels good. It feels

1:02:31

good to get it off my chest and a different

1:02:34

media. Thank you for that. It's

1:02:36

my pleasure pent because

1:02:39

I'll say this because it's because this is me

1:02:41

being at chavving a chip on my shoulder still as

1:02:43

a thirty five year old man um,

1:02:45

I read this article where someone compared the new

1:02:47

Young GUV to Foster the People or something,

1:02:50

and I was just like, I was like, of course

1:02:52

this comes from Canada. Like

1:02:55

I'm like, why did I'm like this? I'm

1:02:57

like these are fighting words, dude, Like are

1:02:59

you kidding me? Totally? Like you're

1:03:02

like, look that, man, Yeah,

1:03:04

let me tell you what influence is not worn on my

1:03:06

sleeve. Faster the People. Yeah,

1:03:09

it's just hilarious. It's just like, wow,

1:03:11

that couldn't be like worse, like damn,

1:03:14

like I don't know, Faster the People

1:03:17

hilarious. Yeah,

1:03:19

dude. I was just like, shit, man, like

1:03:22

this is the Yeah, this is the point dude.

1:03:27

You got paid to comparement of Foster the People.

1:03:29

Like that's pretty ship. I wish I had that

1:03:31

job, don't. Yeah, you're like, let me let me see if

1:03:33

I can scam that angle. I

1:03:36

don't know, help you do that. I

1:03:38

would not be able to. Yeah,

1:03:40

well, Ben, thank you so much for having out dude. I really

1:03:42

appreciate you walking me through all this, this this random

1:03:45

stuff in your bevery banks. But yeah, this has been fun.

1:03:47

Thank you man, Thank you so

1:03:49

much. I really appreciate it. Been really cool. Oh

1:03:54

boy Ben, just to just to treat

1:03:57

right, love to hear his perspective, love

1:03:59

the the takes that he had, and it was

1:04:01

just yeah, it's always

1:04:04

nice when you have a certain I

1:04:06

guess thought process about how a person is

1:04:08

going to be and then they come on the show and

1:04:10

it's like, oh, they've confirmed it, and

1:04:12

they also are even better than I thought

1:04:14

they were going to be. And Ben was exactly that I knew

1:04:16

the chat was gonna be rad and then he defied

1:04:18

my expectation, or not even defied, I

1:04:20

guess, correlated my expectations,

1:04:22

but and it was next week, I have Daniel

1:04:25

Austin. He is a vocalist from band called

1:04:27

Die Young. He's also a published author, a

1:04:30

poet, a vegan, powerlifting

1:04:33

impresario. He is a

1:04:35

man of many, many talents, and I've known him

1:04:37

for a long time and I wanted to have him on the show because

1:04:39

he is a guy that is very

1:04:41

focused and disciplined and just

1:04:43

has an interesting experience traveling in a lot of different

1:04:46

worlds. And he also worked for Peter for a long

1:04:48

time doing some animal rights advocacy

1:04:50

and uh yeah, so that's what we got next week. Okay,

1:04:53

please be safe everybody. Hey

1:04:56

Miles, Yes, it's Jack from

1:04:58

work. Yes. Hi, did you know that we

1:05:00

host a daily news and culture podcast

1:05:03

where people can go to get caught up what

1:05:05

is happening? Are you? Yes? Are you

1:05:07

confused about that? You're talking about the Daily z I

1:05:09

guests should make sure you knew and

1:05:12

that everybody knew that you could listen

1:05:14

to us every day, twice a

1:05:16

day talk about what is happening

1:05:18

and they could learn everything without

1:05:21

feeling the life drained

1:05:23

from their soul. Yeah. I think at

1:05:25

the Daily Zeitgeist do we like to give people a

1:05:27

balance of just enough news that they feel

1:05:30

informed and just enough laughs

1:05:32

that they're not overwhelmed. I can have a decent day

1:05:34

after listening. So guys, listen to The Daily

1:05:36

Zeitgeist on the I Heart Radio app, Apple

1:05:39

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