0:00

Hi there. I'm Zach Raff and I'm Donald Phason.

0:02

We're real life best friends, but

0:04

we met playing fake life best friends

0:07

Turk and j D on the sitcom Scrubs.

0:09

Twenty years later, we've decided to rewatch

0:11

the series one episode at a time and

0:13

put our memories into a podcast

0:16

you can listen to at home. We're gonna get all our

0:18

special guest friends like Sarah Chalk,

0:20

John c McGinley, Neil Flynn, Judy

0:22

Reyes, show creator Bill Lawrence,

0:25

editors, writers, and even prop

0:27

masters would tell us about what inspired

0:29

the series and how we became a family.

0:32

You can listen to the podcast Fake Doctors,

0:34

Real Friends with Zack and Donald on the

0:36

I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast,

0:38

and wherever you get your podcasts. This

0:44

is the Jobber Jaw podcast Network. Greetings

0:53

everybody from the beautiful country of

0:56

Japan. I'm Ray Harkins. You're

0:58

hanging out with hund Words of Less the podcast

1:00

talking to people involved in independent music doing

1:03

this whole thing that we

1:05

love so much, being involved playing

1:08

music, putting out music, taking

1:10

pictures of music, documenting music,

1:12

all of those things. And

1:14

we are focused this month on a particular

1:17

scene in the city Seattle,

1:19

Washington. It's a beautiful place. If you've never been,

1:22

highly recommend it. But this

1:24

this whole theme month has been going so

1:26

so well. I've been getting great feedback on

1:28

on the first two episodes that we've

1:31

done, and uh, if you miss that, go

1:33

dive back. They're just great conversations

1:35

and you know, dive back listen to all the episodes.

1:37

Okay, I like, I

1:39

like. I think I mentioned this in an episode recently where

1:42

I look at the podcast stats

1:44

and while I always get really really stoked that

1:46

a lot of you download and listen to

1:49

the newest episode that comes out, just the

1:51

fact that I'm like, wow, dude, over the

1:53

past month, like you know, forty

1:56

people have listened to you know, some

1:58

of the back catalog and older shows,

2:00

and it just it warms my soul. So I really appreciate

2:03

that. But anyways, today's guests guests,

2:06

there are guests. I'm using two guests

2:08

because they're both incredibly

2:10

important. The main one, the bulk of the

2:13

interview is with Cody Willis from Big

2:15

Business. He also played in Murder City Devils,

2:17

and you know, if you're like, dude,

2:20

ray to Murder City Devils within

2:22

the context of this Seattle month,

2:24

like, can't you come up with some original ideas?

2:26

Uh? Yeah I can. Okay, but Cody,

2:30

wait, just it happened to sync up and I

2:33

it was like within the same week that

2:35

both interviewing both him and Dan kind

2:37

of came up and I was like, oh wow, yeah, let's go ahead

2:39

and do this. So Cody was a great chat. And

2:42

the other auxiliary chat but equally

2:44

important is a friend of mine, Amen

2:46

Sala, from which I'm totally butchering

2:48

his last name. I've never said it out loud, so I apologize,

2:51

Amen. But he plays in a band called Holy

2:53

Pinto, which you have heard me pimp out

2:55

on this show before. I

2:57

just think they're incredible band. And he has a really

2:59

really interesting or basically moved from the UK to

3:01

Milwaukee, does a ton of d I Y

3:03

touring, and uh, it's just a really interesting

3:06

dude. So we had a very fun chat

3:08

and I'll play that at the top of the episode. So

3:12

what what else do I have to tell you about? Well, I have to tell you

3:14

about rockabilly dot Com. Not not only do I have

3:16

to, but I am excited to tell you because

3:18

they have the best

3:21

merg store around in my opinion.

3:23

You can get ten percent off by using the code PC jabber

3:25

jaw, and uh it's

3:28

it's a great place because they have so

3:30

many items, half a million items, all

3:32

high quality, fully endorsed

3:35

as far as like, you know, license, that's what that's

3:37

the word I'm searching for. Fully licensed from

3:39

that perspective, so the bands see royalties on this.

3:41

You know, it's not some horrible, horrible boot

3:43

like scenario. And uh yeah, they're

3:45

just a great company and I love supporting them. So

3:48

PC jabber jaw is the code for ten percent

3:50

off. Go order all your band merge there please,

3:53

And also while you're at it, go ahead

3:55

and you know, leave a review, subscribe to

3:57

the show, show show the love from that

3:59

perspective, and also tell your friends, because that's

4:01

the best way that this thing can kind of spread around.

4:03

And you know, I'm just I see I see the

4:05

growth, and I get excited and I just want to, you

4:07

know, just toss a friendly reminder your

4:10

direction. The more that you're able to do that, the

4:12

more that I am able to do this, and

4:14

it makes me really happy. So I'm

4:16

currently in Japan and I'm exhausted

4:19

playing some shows here. It's been

4:22

surreal. I mean, that's that's the best way I can use,

4:25

the best word I can use to describe it. Um,

4:28

it's just I feel incredibly lucky

4:30

to be able to do this on such

4:32

a um, you know, part time level

4:34

where it's like, yeah, you know, taking only plays a couple

4:36

of shows a year, um, and we are

4:39

able to still engage with people

4:41

and still that still find our music you

4:43

know, relevant and the message relevant. And I

4:45

just, uh, I don't know. I never thought i'd be,

4:47

you know, playing in a hardcore band in my late thirties.

4:49

Like it's just a it's a it's a cool thing. So

4:52

thank you very much. Everybody who you know has

4:54

checked the shows out so far, and if you live

4:56

in Japan, like, there are still a couple of shows left, so come

4:58

on out and you can find the dates easily

5:01

on the interwebs. But anyways,

5:03

Uh, Cody Willis, he is

5:05

such a beast of a drummer, Like I remember

5:07

watching him in Murder City and I've

5:10

seen Big Business. I think I've only seen them once,

5:12

but he's just to do that. He

5:14

knows what he's doing by the drunk kit and

5:16

uh, I just love I usually

5:19

I'm attracted Like when I I see

5:21

bands play live, I'm attracted to watching

5:23

the drummer more than anything else. Um,

5:26

just because I find them,

5:28

you know that the backbone of kind of keeping things

5:30

together and making sure the songs don't fall apart,

5:32

because obviously it's like if a guitar stars playing, like,

5:35

yeah, this song, you know it doesn't sound good or whatever. But

5:37

you know, if the drummer stops playing, like you know, all

5:39

the wheels are off. But it was. Cody was

5:42

a great chat, and um, yeah, we're going

5:44

to continue this this month of Seattle. I

5:47

will announce the next guest at the very end

5:49

of the episode. So yeah,

5:51

here we go. All right, I will talk to you

5:53

at the end of the show. I love

6:01

ye can

6:19

marry on my mind. I

6:21

know you

6:24

are an extremely interesting person to

6:26

me because I mean, I

6:28

I love the hustle, like I love people

6:31

that, like you know, reach out directly to

6:33

like you know, labels or management or

6:35

whatever. And it's just like, you know, you're just trying to like make

6:37

things happen, not only for like yourself and the music

6:39

and stuff like that. And I think that's why I always

6:42

not only is the music that you create I

6:44

enjoy, like I actually like, but I

6:46

just always admired the hustle that you had

6:49

to be like, Yo, I'm from the UK, and

6:51

like, you know, we're doing these like total you know, d

6:53

I Y playing in front of twenty people, tours

6:55

in the States and just like making it happen. Um

6:58

has that always kind of been like who you are as

7:00

a person, where it's just like, oh, yeah, man, I'll figure

7:02

out a way to make this work. Maybe

7:05

maybe I'm not a hundred cents sure, but maybe

7:07

I kind of I think

7:09

whether there's I've had a lot of conversation with this

7:12

about this with people recently. I think whether whether's

7:14

the world there's a way, Like if you really want to do something,

7:16

you can make it work. There's always a

7:18

way. And I think I just really wanted to

7:21

do music and wanted to tour enough, and

7:24

as soon as I started doing it, I was like, I want to be here,

7:26

I want to be playing with these bands, I want to be on this

7:28

label, I want to do this. And I kind of

7:30

whenever I have that enthusiasm that really sticks

7:33

and it gets for front of your head, you just

7:35

kind of do if you feel like you have

7:37

to do it, you do it, and so maybe,

7:39

but also I have a lot

7:42

of laziness and absolutely rely like trust

7:44

me is lots of things I don't I don't

7:46

act on, and I'm not the most productive

7:49

person in life. But yeah, when you get that kind

7:51

of thing of like I

7:53

wanted to come hit tour. I live in Walk, Wisconsin

7:55

at the moment wanted to come It's tour when we put

7:58

out a first record, and a

8:00

big part of it was we just knew

8:02

we wanted to do it but didn't know how. But

8:04

we just set that laser focus and we

8:06

had a guy called John John Bows who runs

8:08

Cold Cuts merch who put our

8:10

first release in the States and was like, I'll

8:13

put it out, but you've got to come here. We're like, we want to come here?

8:15

Are you kidding me? Oh no, we don't want

8:17

to you know what I mean. There's like you've got a tour. It's like, okay,

8:19

you're gonna help us polk a toy. He was like, yeah,

8:22

I'll help you book a tour. Like really, like yes,

8:24

he will help, but also like this

8:26

is guy really going to book cost of tour? And

8:28

then it just kept getting closer and

8:30

I started to I was like, he's

8:33

going to help us, but he's not really going to vote this tour

8:35

for us. And then he was like, just do it yourself,

8:37

Aim and God's sake, you know, just do it yourself.

8:40

And I was like, what do you mean, We've never been there.

8:42

And then I just figured out that we could do it ourselves

8:44

just by having to you know, you're in

8:46

the deep end. We got a flight, We've got to get these

8:49

dates, you know. And that was

8:51

his mentality that served

8:53

him well through touring and his merch companies

8:55

obviously doing really well, and I think

8:57

that kind of rubbed up. So it's kind of the synergy

8:59

of wanting to do that and that

9:02

kind of mentality, but he kind of put in mid

9:04

day one doing music to be honest, Yeah,

9:07

no, that's really cool because it does. And I think

9:09

a lot of that also stems from when

9:11

you are, you know, from a place like I mean

9:13

clearly, the UK in general is you

9:15

know, a hub for music, Like there's always stuff

9:17

that's happening there. You know. Granted,

9:19

you guys are always a couple of years behind the States, but you know

9:21

that's okay, I'm just kidding kind

9:24

of right. It's funny that, but

9:26

yeah, well there. Well it's

9:28

funny because from what I've noticed where it's just like

9:31

it seems like certain things, um,

9:33

you know, musically speaking, that

9:35

you guys are like, you know, ahead of whether

9:38

it's just like I mean, I'm thinking back to like, you

9:40

know, early two thousands where it's just like you know, bands like Bullet

9:42

from My Valentine and Funeral for a Friend and stuff like

9:44

that, where it's like, yeah, stuff like that was kind of happening

9:46

over here in the States, but like not in the

9:49

same way. I mean, Bring Me the Rising could be another

9:51

example where it's like those bands like

9:53

you know, we're so massive in the UK and

9:55

like you know, kind of started to pop off over

9:58

here, but like not in the same way it

10:00

was like for the UK or whatever. Yeah,

10:03

I think, um, I think it trickles

10:05

down a lot from the US. Um. Yeah, that's

10:07

definitely something I've noticed on a grassroots

10:09

scale where if I did a US

10:12

tour. Let's say I did US tour

10:14

a year or two ago, and I played

10:16

with X band and a basement in Albany,

10:19

New York. Um, I guarantee

10:21

you like a year later, I'd be at

10:23

a show in Brighton in England and someone

10:25

would go, oh, I love this band, It's

10:27

all I'm listening to. And I'd be like, oh, yeah, then my

10:29

friends. I've played with them a year ago in a basement, you

10:32

know, and it's like it takes that latency

10:34

period of a year or two. And then if I've

10:36

been touring here, when I go back home, it's like

10:38

the band that I thought were amazing in the basement

10:41

and was starting to blow up in America then

10:43

it reaches England. I feel like it does trickle

10:45

down like that, and by that time I'm like, oh, yeah, they're

10:47

my friends, I know them. Yeah, yeah, cool, And

10:49

it's like, really weird. It does happen a lot.

10:51

You do see that. You always know, like I don't know, like

10:54

Prince Daddy and I, you know, band doing a lot of stuff right

10:56

now, give them one year, they'll be huge in the UK.

10:58

You know. It's just it just takes that latency a

11:00

bit of time. I definitely feel that,

11:02

definitely, Yeah, I know that that's interesting too.

11:05

And then, like I said, because you

11:07

know, kind of going arriving back to my original point that

11:09

I made about the UK, where I was trying to make about

11:11

the UK where it's like there, you know,

11:13

the it's not like there

11:15

is you know, a ton of places

11:17

to play. From a d I Y perspective,

11:19

it's like, yeah, you can play, you know, Like I

11:22

think the longest tour that I ever heard of in

11:24

the UK was with uh, like

11:26

I played some shows with that band Johnny Truant

11:29

and yeah, oh yeah,

11:31

but you know, thrown away back totally.

11:33

But I think, you know, when when we were when I

11:35

started to become friends with them, they told me that they did

11:37

like a you know, like a twenty six date

11:40

UK tour, which it's like, you know, they were

11:42

like literally scraping the bottom of the barrel as

11:45

far you know, they were playing for like you know, thirty

11:47

people in you know, the super super

11:49

South part of the island or whatever. But

11:52

it's like, you know, clearly here in the States, like

11:54

you know, there's so many d I Y opportunities

11:57

that can exist here. So like the

12:00

notion of you wanting to get over here to be like

12:02

oh yeah, like you know, we just

12:04

we just want to have more places to play rather

12:06

than just kind of you know, the fact you're limited

12:09

geographically speaking, you know absolutely,

12:12

It's it's something that I get asked a lot, and I

12:14

think about all the time that you are so limited if

12:17

you're in the US, especially as the Y so you

12:19

can play anywhere. You know, I've been Ray,

12:21

I'm sure you have as well. I'm sure we've done

12:24

some far off shows to a very very few

12:26

people in random downs and those without

12:28

saying um but like,

12:30

yeah, so you could do that here and stay

12:32

sustainable. Like I think quite a lot about

12:35

time. I ended up in Boas in Alabama,

12:37

which is a town no one's really hurt, but

12:40

I had a really fun time. It was a Sunday, it was

12:42

a solo show and the four people that and

12:44

everyone there was really nice. There's always no one

12:46

but we just we hung out and played some

12:48

songs. People were nice, people

12:51

bought some merch and I ended up with enough

12:53

gas money to more than comfortably get me to the

12:55

next place. And I had a really fun time. And that's

12:57

the kind of thing that you can sustain and do here

13:00

it but you can't in England because one

13:02

of the main reasons is basements don't exist in England,

13:05

so there aren't many house shows that

13:07

for promoting a promoter want to put on a show. They

13:09

have to have overhead sound guy. Venues

13:11

are expensive eighteen plus whatever

13:14

it might be. While here it's just like

13:16

I'll get you something together in my dad's

13:18

garage, you know he sometimes

13:20

works out of and that kind

13:22

of and the location, yeah, the physical size

13:25

of it all, it is easier to just keep going

13:27

here. I saw an Australian artical

13:29

Alex Cameron live earlier in the week and

13:32

he said on stage. He

13:34

said on stage, he's like, thanks to

13:36

you guys in America for giving

13:38

me giving us work. It was the expression

13:41

of the crude expression he is. He was like,

13:43

in Australia, I can't work

13:45

here, I can work because it's like he's

13:48

alluding to the fact there's only like five music

13:50

markets in Australia, you know, like

13:52

they opened for the Killers there, you know, but

13:54

then it's like, what am I going to do for the next year when I'm

13:57

tied up in some contract of not being able to play

13:59

or like you can't do that every week. So

14:02

they come and they've just been touring here and

14:04

it was just you alluded to it literally on stage at this

14:07

week. I thought that was really interesting. He was like, America's

14:09

big you guys give us work. Thank you. I

14:11

thought that was funny. Yeah, no, that's that's very

14:13

true. That's very true. And I love the you know, like

14:15

whatever, the the the short history

14:18

of you know, holy pitto, the fact, like you know, we were talking about

14:20

you started the UK, and then I love the idea

14:22

of you, you know, like you know, once you're

14:24

your fellow bandmate departed because he basically

14:27

you toured as a three or a two piece over here. Correct.

14:30

Yes, we did the first time, and then the second

14:32

time we took on a basis we started as

14:34

a two piece and then we started getting like friends

14:37

and people we need to come play based

14:39

live as a three piece. But yeah, it was basically

14:41

a two piece of me and my friend run sure. Sure.

14:43

And then uh, the you know when Ryan departed,

14:46

what was that like over over a year or

14:48

so ago? How long ago was that? Yeah? I

14:50

think about a year and a half. Yeah, and so

14:53

and then the idea that you you know,

14:55

like you don't have to be tied

14:57

to where you live, like just this idea

14:59

of you picking up stakes and being like, yeah,

15:01

I think I'm gonna land in Milwaukee because I enjoyed it.

15:03

I enjoyed playing shows. They're like you know, I got some

15:05

friends there and then you know, picking

15:08

it up and being able to release more music and

15:10

you know, obviously being a completely different

15:13

um you know, geographical location. UM.

15:16

I just find that so interesting because

15:18

I mean, when you have more people in the band, like that's

15:21

next to impossible to do. But because it's just

15:23

you, you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, I can do this is no problem.

15:26

Yeah, it works out pretty well

15:28

in that that respect. It was one of the it's

15:30

one of the pluses of just being

15:33

me now. And there's more negative than

15:35

pluses, I think, because I did really

15:37

like doing it right and to work

15:39

with the Bounce ideas, but there

15:41

is one of the positives of that. Was actually

15:44

probably the one silver lining that immediately

15:46

struck me was where he left. It was like, I

15:48

don't have to adhere to anyone now, I can just

15:50

be wherever I want to be, you know, and that

15:53

is quite liberating. It's also terrifying,

15:55

but it allowed me to kind of

15:57

be here and just on a whim. I

15:59

didn't plan not living in Milwaukee. It just kind of happened,

16:01

and that's cool. I do like

16:04

that. And because we get a lot

16:06

of people ask me you moved to the States.

16:08

Why Milwaukee, And I don't know why,

16:11

it just is it just is pleasant

16:13

to me. I like it. But I

16:15

will say people are like, you're trying to like the musician

16:17

and do all this stuff. Why didn't you go to

16:20

l A or New York or something? And there's the obvious

16:22

reasons, like the cost and all

16:24

the stuff, but it's like, if you're serious about music, you should

16:26

be there. But it's like I'm in Milwaukee

16:28

right now, and it's it's a small city, but

16:31

there's quite a few people here. You know. They

16:33

have really cool FM

16:35

radio stations, newspapers, they

16:38

have like cool several scenes

16:40

of music with really good musicians. And

16:43

I'm from Canterbury. We had nothing. You

16:46

know, this is like a massive upgrade in

16:48

terms of like, you know, you're

16:50

like I understand, especially

16:52

to like I that the notion of being

16:54

at one of those like you know, cultural

16:57

entertainment hubs, whether it's you know, New York or l A,

16:59

like you mentioned, it's just one of those things. And

17:01

you know you kind of talking about this previously,

17:04

and I've had this discussion on on the show many

17:06

times where it's like once you're

17:08

of you know, a certain level where you know, you're

17:10

touring and you know, maybe you're playing in front of

17:12

you know a few people here and there, and like people you know

17:14

before you play, like know who you are or whatever.

17:17

Honestly, it's the shows that you play

17:19

outside of those major metropolitan areas

17:22

that usually end up being the coolest because

17:24

you know, kids are bored. They just need a

17:26

thing to do on Saturday night and they're like, oh, yeah, I'll go

17:29

to the show, like you know who's playing, it

17:31

doesn't matter, just going to the show. And then usually

17:33

it's that sort of useful exuberance that kind of

17:35

you know, plays itself out that evening and then

17:38

all of a sudden, Holy Pinto is like their favorite

17:40

band ever and there you know, but

17:42

no one would ever have predicted that. So I like

17:44

the move of Milwaukee because it is like

17:47

there's a scene, there's culture there. It's not

17:49

like you're, hey, you know what I'm gonna be in Fargo, North

17:51

Dakota. Like enjoy that like it's

17:53

not yeah, it's so true. It's so true.

17:56

And it brings me back to the Boas thing where it's

17:58

like I remember when I played bass on a Sunday

18:01

it was like two weeks before this band

18:03

called safe Face from New Jersey. They're on Epitad

18:05

Records now, they weren't when I played that show,

18:07

but they played and they were like, oh,

18:10

safe Face amazing. They had like eight people

18:12

here last week. And I was like, but it doesn't

18:14

make me feel that much better. But it's great, Like

18:16

it's great. It's like say, based on a huge following

18:18

in Boas and I was like, really, what

18:21

does that mean? Yeah, exactly, but it

18:23

was great. It was great to hear. And then as you did a few

18:26

dates with the singing from that band a couple of

18:28

months later, and I was, oh,

18:30

yeah, so like I heard you guys do well in bars.

18:32

He was like, yeah, yeah, we do. Really

18:34

bas I was like, that's one of those

18:37

things that could only happen in this world. But it

18:39

does help, you know, Like I'm sure cracking

18:41

New York back in the day for them would have been harder than

18:43

cragging Boas. But you go to boa As,

18:45

you show up and then you know at that point by birming

18:47

am Alabama at some point and people will trek out

18:49

because they love him, and it's a great thing. Totally,

18:51

totally. I just love it and Frankly,

18:54

those to me are kind

18:56

of the most memorable shows when you

18:58

are playing, because you know, going

19:00

into it like you've got like zero

19:02

expectations whatsoever. Where it's just like cool,

19:05

I'm playing Albuquerque, New Mexico, Like, I guess

19:07

people are going to show up, and then you know, if forty people

19:09

are there and then thirty of them by a shirt, You're like,

19:11

that's probably the best show I've ever played. You know, You're just, oh

19:13

my god, this is unbelievable. It

19:16

is the best, the most the more random

19:18

the better, to the more random the better. I

19:20

Like, I would say that first US tour

19:22

we ever did, just as a Jeome and Ryan, that

19:25

we played some of the weirdest spots. Honestly.

19:27

That was like, especially Ryan had

19:29

this way about booking the weirdest ones, like

19:32

it was like pure desperation and would

19:34

find something like I remember we played a

19:36

Wakeboard, a huge human made wakeboarding

19:39

company in

19:41

Baldosta, Georgia. It was like

19:43

one of the very few in the U S with like an automated

19:46

cable system or something. Anyway, they had like a

19:48

skate park there and stuff, and we were booked

19:50

to play there. It was bizarre and

19:52

then I saw it like the other day that like Luke

19:54

Bryan, the country thing that did a farm tour

19:57

on that exact site like a year

19:59

before. That was like, so I played

20:01

the same venue as Luke Bran, Yes, you

20:03

know, and it was just crazy. Yeah,

20:06

totally totally right. You must have been. I would

20:08

love to know where's a weird place that you've been on

20:10

talk that you did back in the day. Yeah,

20:12

I remember this just randomly

20:14

comes aby, but I remember playing. It's like Lockport,

20:17

New York, which was like I don't know, maybe thirty

20:20

minutes outside of Buffalo, but it was you

20:22

know, it just played a skate park, which you know, every band has played

20:24

a skate park, and some you know, you play right in the middle

20:27

of the you know, the ramps or whatever.

20:29

Um. But I just remember the shows. They're being

20:31

unbelievable. I mean the sound is horrible. Like the only

20:33

way that you could like actually hear a band is if

20:36

you're like literally standing two feet in front of them,

20:38

you know, um, because the sound it was

20:40

just a huge warehouse and so it's not like there's any

20:42

any intimacy. But yeah, I mean just like record

20:45

stores, like some of the you know whatever,

20:47

Like, yes, I was lucky enough to play like cb GBS

20:49

once at like a horrible metal festival and we

20:52

just did not you know, we did not belong

20:54

there at all. But and I remember the show

20:56

and it was cool. But you know, the shows are just like, oh,

20:58

dude, of course. I remember playing the Wreck Store in Las Vegas

21:01

and like, yeah, that was great. There's a hundred people there. People

21:03

are losing their minds and yeah, it's those those

21:05

off the beaten path ones where it's like either it's

21:08

a random city or like you mentioned, a random

21:10

you know, I use the

21:12

term venue loosely, where yeah,

21:15

the loosest totally like

21:17

there's a there's a p a. I guess, I guess

21:19

we'll call it a venue. That's

21:23

awesome. I love that stuff. Actually, it make

21:25

me you miss being out on the right. That's awesome.

21:27

Yeah, I know, it's it's it's super fun. And so

21:30

I think the you know, the

21:32

interesting thing about you, like you were

21:34

talking about the kind of the fact that you don't

21:36

have, you know, someone else to bounce ideas off

21:38

of, and like it's liberating and scary and like

21:40

that that whole idea of you

21:42

know, creating art for you know, like

21:45

literally yourself, which of course you've

21:47

done that for a long time with the help of other

21:49

people. Um, but like, I'm

21:51

gonna guess that you feel like way more exposed

21:54

with this newest release than you have with any

21:56

other stuff in the past. Wow.

21:58

Um, maybe maybe I've

22:01

always felt I was

22:03

like, I was like, either either I

22:05

hit on a nerve that you haven't thought about, or

22:08

this is you've always thought this way. I've

22:10

kind of always felt that way, you know. To

22:12

be honest, yeah, I've always felt quite exposed,

22:15

I guess. Yeah, so the

22:18

same as always. To be honest, I

22:20

didn't think about a lot about how I

22:22

think I'm quite I like writing

22:25

or bouncing this of other people, and

22:27

I think I need. I think I

22:29

think I'm ready to start collaborating a little

22:31

bit more than I have been doing recently. Again if

22:33

that makes sense, Um, just have

22:35

someone. I think some of my friends are getting all the brunt

22:37

of my wacky, bullshit ideas

22:40

that I come out with on a daily basis

22:42

that have nothing to do with music, and I'm just like, why

22:44

are you telling me about this? And I

22:46

think I need, like I need like a Ryan again,

22:48

I think I'm getting but it has

22:50

been funding alone and repurposing myself

22:53

and finding where I am now

22:55

and stuff. But yeah, it does feel quite

22:57

exposed, it does, but we'll

22:59

see, we'll see. Yeah. Well, And

23:02

I think too, like when you are used to creating

23:04

with people, even if it's one of those things where

23:07

you're a contribute, I mean, you know, because

23:10

it's a tight knit group and there was only maybe two or

23:12

three of you at any given point, it's

23:14

not like there was a you know,

23:16

like you were a five piece band and like you were one voice

23:19

amongst the other four, where um,

23:21

you know, each person kind of fills their role,

23:23

like where it's like, you know, if a person can't really

23:26

you know, they don't play guitar, they don't write music, but at

23:28

the same time they're good at you know,

23:30

editing being like I think they play that part too long

23:32

or whatever. Um. But then when

23:35

you're used to that collaborative environment, I can

23:37

understand where you're just like, it's cool to do it on my

23:39

own, but then it's also cool too, like you said,

23:42

and not just bug people who

23:44

don't have a context for what it is you're bugging them

23:46

about. Like they're like, yeah, I know, yeah,

23:48

man, I know you play music and stuff, but like

23:51

I don't know how to help you, Like I don't know what

23:53

to say to you. You know, it does

23:55

happen sometimes I'm like,

23:57

hey, what do you think about this? And then it's like I

23:59

don't know, Like I

24:02

just realized I need someone just to like

24:04

I need like a Ryan to bounce the idea

24:06

off, you know, and get like a perspective

24:09

on this. But yeah, no, I definitely am

24:11

looking to make it more more

24:13

kind of collaborative and more

24:15

people involved. I think like we're

24:18

doing these release shows and we're doing it as a four piece, which

24:20

is really really cool and exciting. So yeah,

24:22

exactly, because yeah, you're like, this is comfortable. This is

24:24

what I felt in the past. So Um,

24:29

the last two things I want to hit on was

24:31

the the idea that you

24:33

mean clearly the influence

24:36

of you know what you you know, kind

24:38

of grew up with like stylistically. Um,

24:41

you know, most people can probably look at it, be like look

24:43

at the music that you create and be like oh, yeah, like you know

24:45

you're influenced by you know, all the mid nineties

24:47

email bands and stuff like that. Um, but

24:50

how old are you personally I've

24:52

just nine, okay, and so you

24:55

know, I'm going to guess,

24:57

like, like your introduction to that was, you

24:59

know whatever, around fifteen, sixteen years old, or

25:01

like, how did you kind of even crack into

25:03

like I guess independent music to begin with? Did you go

25:05

the whole you know, you're super into you

25:08

know, sixth and all those bands

25:10

in the UK, and then and then you started to dive

25:12

a little bit deeper or you know how what was your trajectory

25:15

six the Crazy Insane

25:17

Band? Yeah, there's some. I love the fact too

25:19

that there's some bands in the UK that are like,

25:21

you know, massive and legendary, and

25:23

people everywhere else are just like who

25:26

like hundred Reasons. There is people like oh

25:29

my first ever show, there you go,

25:31

there you go, hundred Reasons and in me

25:33

at the folkst and least

25:36

Cliff for Silk Can in England. Yeah

25:38

first sure, m Yeah, that's

25:40

great. Hundred Reasons all exactly one of

25:42

them and they're kind of we're in that

25:44

emails. So I completely forgot about that. Um

25:46

yeah, I think I had a similar

25:49

I wasn't as involved in the UK

25:52

scene ever, or like the smaller bands

25:54

I've seen hundred Reasons probably the small smallest

25:56

band in that respect. Um.

25:59

I know Sick because they used to have a video

26:01

on Karan TV playing and it was really

26:03

weird and creepy and the music was

26:05

insane, and I didn't like it at all. I'll

26:07

be honest. I might like it more now,

26:09

but back then I was like, is this even music?

26:12

It was so heavy and weird

26:14

and angular and anyone should check

26:16

that out. It's like, s I k t

26:19

h right that they're bad?

26:21

Yeah and yeah No. It

26:23

was more actually have a bit of a kinship

26:26

with American music

26:28

and American independence scene more than I do UK,

26:31

and I always have, I think in the same way a lot

26:33

of people here. I grew up on Blink on it too, and you found

26:35

Glory or that staff and then just

26:37

kind of went logically from there and followed

26:40

with that. Tied kind of took

26:42

us. And then I got really heavily involved in all

26:44

that stuff in terms of just listening and

26:46

lurking on the internet and

26:49

the absolute punk and stuff, and

26:52

I kind of just followed that more than being involved

26:54

in the UK side of stuff. So

26:57

I always felt I think that's when one of my true authors

26:59

to come here. It was like this is where all

27:01

the music I like is from. You know, I

27:03

really do list a lot of American music. And then

27:06

I kind of after that, after like A J. A.

27:09

T. And I kind of stay started getting into more indie

27:11

stuff. And then when I

27:13

was like and eclectic stuff. And then

27:15

when I was like twenty two or

27:17

twenty three, I heard

27:19

like the Wanderers and I heard who

27:23

else the Wanderers. I got into Maritime,

27:25

a band from Milwaukee that used to be in the

27:27

Promise Ring, and I go into like

27:30

Fireworks, a really underrated band, and

27:32

like I had my friend Alex who runs

27:35

a distributor in the UK called Elsewhere

27:37

I used to call munk Ware Records, and he was kept trying

27:40

to turn me onto this pop punk for years, and I was like,

27:42

listen, I don't care about pop punk anymore. Iron

27:44

like pop punk. I'm like twenty three, I don't

27:46

care about And then I heard those bands, was like, oh

27:49

sick. I like you're like, I'm cool

27:51

with that. I'm cool with that, yeah,

27:53

and then started getting back into music.

27:55

I kind of put music to the side and then had those bands

27:57

again, and it kind of reawakened my American

28:01

independent thing and obviously where

28:03

they came from was that scene, but they probably

28:05

were just breaking through. But then I started

28:07

touring here, and yes, so I guess a lot of my independent

28:10

thing is probably what you've you've experienced

28:12

and gone through, but on a real you

28:14

know you've been here experiencing it. I love

28:16

known people's stories of growing up and seeing

28:19

like I don't know, Cursive when

28:21

they were doing that thing, or I think

28:23

one of my friends I was like, I don't know,

28:26

yeah, like hearing about when the

28:28

fuel by Raman bands were like on four

28:30

band packages playing for like the forty

28:33

people in the town, you know, and

28:35

it's it's like I wasn't there for that. I was so jealous,

28:38

you know, I was like, I wish i'd seen that. But

28:40

there is there is something that is extremely

28:43

romantic and not even from the I

28:45

discovered this before anyone else knew.

28:47

It was cool scenario, which obviously people

28:50

do right on that rail, but just

28:52

the notion of like, yeah, I saw this band,

28:54

you know, play in front of, like you said, forty people before

28:57

you know whatever. Year and a half later, all of a sudden, they're playing

28:59

in front of you know, ten thousand um and

29:01

it it's just that that feeling of

29:03

like, oh, man, like this feels like something

29:06

special, Like I can't you know, I can't predict

29:08

the future of this, but man, this is so cool and like

29:10

I've experienced this on like the most

29:13

primal you know, based d I Y

29:15

level. You know, yes, definitely,

29:17

there is something very cool about that. You also find

29:20

bands get bigger than you ever thought they could have been

29:23

totally yeah, yeah, yeah, where you're like,

29:25

dude, I knew you guys were gonna be like popular

29:27

and stuff, but like I didn't think you would be selling out like two

29:30

thousand cap venues. Like that's insane, Like

29:32

that's just okay, go go for it for

29:34

real. I think about like we had a

29:37

similar thing when me and Rhyme were in college and

29:39

the Front Bottoms came through in England and

29:42

they played in London and we took the train

29:44

down from Manchester like four

29:46

hours like train or actually two

29:48

or three hours train and we went

29:50

and it was like there was like ten people there and

29:53

there was like a headline artist called get Kpe

29:55

Workout Fly that used to be like quite a big

29:57

deal in England, um, and

29:59

they were opening and there were like ten people

30:01

in the room and no one cared me and Ryan, you like

30:03

every word. I don't know how we discovered

30:06

that band, but you know, it's bes to kind of American

30:08

independent scene, and I guess we were plugged

30:10

into it at the time and they

30:12

were one of them, you know, like it

30:15

was just we loved it and

30:17

it was great. It was when the first record came out

30:19

or the sub title one, and yeah,

30:21

I just never thought they'd be big. Of course, I didn't

30:24

think they'd be big, you know, right, like

30:27

you know, it was just like you didn't think that, and then

30:29

like a year and a half later, that's settling out

30:31

theaters. It's like, wow, okay.

30:34

You know they were also one of those fans of the one who's

30:36

are really inspirational and kind of like, oh,

30:38

I like I like punk music again, this is cool.

30:41

Yeah, that's super that's super cool. Uh

30:43

And I promised

30:46

that this is I'm really not trying to lean

30:48

on a cliche question because you

30:51

know, I know that people most likely have asked

30:53

you this, but I just find it incredibly

30:55

interesting because you've had experience obviously

30:57

in the UK and in the States. Um,

31:00

you know, the differences that you notice

31:02

in regards to you know, whether

31:04

it be like you know, specifically the independent

31:06

you know, d I y music scene, or if it's

31:08

just like culturally at large where you're

31:10

just like, dude, I can't believe that you dumb dumbs

31:12

in America do this or you know not you

31:15

doesn't even have to be something negative, but like, what are

31:17

what are the kind of the large or

31:19

maybe even small takeaways that you're just like, I can't

31:22

believe that this is like the case good or bad.

31:25

Oh. That's such a broad question, is I

31:27

and I that's so broad? But

31:30

you can't you can't specifically, like I said, kind

31:32

of you know, pointed to the music scenes if you see

31:34

that, or if it's just like dude, I can't believe

31:36

if you guys don't really eat very much fish and chips

31:38

over here or whatever, like it's just nice.

31:40

Yeah, yeah,

31:43

I do. I

31:45

think I don't know, speaking

31:47

to like music scenes and stuff. I think the

31:49

basement, the basement, the

31:52

basement as a thing, you know, I

31:54

get asked about it a lot. It's a good, really

31:56

good question. It's like basements

31:58

don't tend to exist in England because the houses

32:00

have foundations, you know, for the

32:02

most part, and it's like, we

32:04

don't really have basements and the

32:07

licklaws in England and it's eighteen

32:10

eighteen class like rather than twenty one

32:12

plus. So bar shows are eligible

32:15

for anyone over the age of eighteen, but also some

32:18

bars and some venues. It's

32:20

not a thing like so maybe all ages

32:22

or fourteen plus a bit more of a thing. But

32:25

those logistical considerations

32:28

are so have such an

32:30

effect on everything, you know, um,

32:32

and it really shapes the way the American scene

32:34

is and British scene and the British

32:37

teams detriment honestly, because you

32:39

guys have this basement culture where it's

32:42

like it's so helpful for touring

32:44

bands. It's like I'll say up a show,

32:46

you can come play in my basement. I've got a p a. There's

32:49

no overheads, there's no cost, there's no

32:51

bureaucracy, anyone can show

32:53

up, anyone can donate money. It's just

32:56

like a very natural

32:58

and easy going thing. Then that's

33:00

a really good thing, and then a really bad

33:02

thing is that your bar and venue shows are often

33:04

twenty one plus and it's like, really it's

33:07

really uninclusive, you know, and that really

33:09

sucks. But then it drives the kind of basement

33:11

scenes. So it's kind of a bit of both. But that's

33:14

the main difference. I would say there's not as much

33:16

d I ending, but there is a lot of d I I. I

33:18

knows people do great stuff, but it

33:20

is it is more attrition with it because you still

33:22

need a venue that like how shows

33:25

happen, but almost never, like there's

33:27

rarely any house shows. So it's like

33:29

turn after train of thought, do you because I know,

33:32

usually, like I mean here on the West Coast, like most

33:34

you know, sort of whatever house shows, and I

33:36

mean, you know, the West Coast doesn't really have basements

33:39

as well, especially California, but you

33:41

know, most of the house shows that exist only

33:44

usually happened for a very short period of time because

33:46

then you know, usually people complain about the noise and cops

33:48

come and stuff like that. Does that happen in the UK as well,

33:51

where it's like, you know, noise complaints at a person's

33:53

house and then you know, the the coppers

33:55

show up with their you know, their their monocles and

33:57

everything. I

34:00

don't don't, I don't know. I

34:02

don't know anyone that's had the kind of I

34:05

don't know anyone that's put on like

34:07

regular, regular, regular house shows. You

34:09

know. I think I know people that like

34:12

in Birning and we played our shows like

34:14

house shows. We've played our shows, and we've

34:16

played several places in the UK, but but it's usually

34:19

more of a one off type five you know. It's

34:21

like not the same basement that five

34:23

touring bands rolled through every month, you know. I

34:25

think I think the understanding is that it

34:28

would get closed down if it became a more

34:30

than one off thing. I think that is the

34:32

beer that we live under. But that's interesting about the basements

34:34

in on the West Coast side. Didn't really think

34:37

about or no about that. I guess whenever I've been in the West

34:39

Coast, I've played like dy

34:41

spaces like Bridgetown

34:43

or the Yeah

34:46

yeah, the Riff Mountain stuff. Yeah, because logistically

34:48

it's just the fact that most houses don't have basements

34:51

because you know, like earthquakes and like

34:53

just the the architectural

34:55

nature of I mean this is mostly California

34:58

centric and Southern California centery because like you

35:00

know, northern California, like sometimes you can find some

35:03

you know, basements, but most you know, the basement

35:05

shows are just legendary up and down the East

35:07

coast or primarily just the northeast,

35:09

you know, and of course the Midwest and stuff like that. But

35:11

yeah, once you get out to the you know, West coast, like

35:13

you're seeing just those like multipurpose spaces

35:16

that are being used rather than you know,

35:18

the proverbial basement or you know maybe people

35:20

are playing in the living room or whatever. But

35:22

but yeah, but that means that I can understand what you're

35:25

talking about where it's like, you know, you'd play

35:27

a spot show here there, but not to the extent that

35:29

you would you know, have this like oh yeah, it's like

35:31

you know Joe's house. Of course you're gonna play Joe's

35:33

house when you come through or whatever. Yeah,

35:35

Oscar Punk the address. You know,

35:38

people will find that. Yeah, look look for

35:40

the scene. That's thanks of

35:42

mentioning that though, because I've never thought about

35:44

about that. I've never played a base in shown California,

35:46

and I guess that's why. Yeah, exactly. You gotta be

35:49

got to be saying how does how does that shape

35:51

California's music scene? Then well,

35:54

it's just always been like kind of these you know,

35:57

uh, these these community spaces that exist,

35:59

whether it's like a fee shop that gets kind of turned into

36:01

um, you know, I'm mostly speaking about the

36:04

you know, when I started to go to shows in like kind

36:07

of you know the mid to late nineties, where

36:09

it was like you had your you know, venues like

36:11

you know, Chain Reaction when it first started. And

36:13

then you know the Showcase Theater, which was you know,

36:15

not in Orange County in particular, but

36:17

it was a really really big spot

36:19

that um, you know people played shows,

36:21

but that was like an old movie theater that got turned into

36:23

a venue. Um. But like

36:26

when you start to step below both of those

36:28

like you know whatever, those three

36:30

to four hundred cap rooms, it was always

36:32

like a coffee shop that you know, had some shows.

36:35

Like there was this place, um in

36:37

Fullerton, California, this place called the Hub.

36:40

Now it's called the Slide Bar, and they do like you know, rock

36:42

and roll free shows and it's kind of a you

36:44

know, a browy atmosphere. But the

36:46

Hub when they used to do shows

36:49

there, it was all you know, you're you're

36:51

sort of you know Southern California emo bands.

36:53

Um, Like, I'll never forget this is probably one

36:55

of the most emo band names of all time.

36:58

A hundred words for Snow and like

37:01

just just adorable, but like the band was really

37:03

good, but like they always played there just because it was

37:05

like, you know, it was a coffee shop and it was chill,

37:07

and like there's no way that you could have a hardcore show there because

37:09

everyone would be super bummed, someone's

37:11

already yelled at their face or whatever. So when did

37:13

the hardcore shows go then? Uh, usually

37:15

a lot of the hardcore shows just went to kind of the um,

37:18

you know, Showcase Theater, Chain Reaction.

37:20

Um. There there was a play There was another place called

37:23

Coups Cafe that was a really big deal, um

37:25

you know, mid late nineties and early two thousands,

37:27

where it was like again just a coffee

37:30

shop, but they would be able to do um,

37:32

you know, a bunch of different styles of music. Like

37:34

you know, one day you could see, um,

37:36

you know, Wesley Willis play there, and then the

37:38

next day you oh, dude,

37:41

one of the one of the biggest shows I ever saw there was Wesley

37:43

Willis. There was probably like I mean, you

37:45

could fit maybe a hundred people in the room,

37:48

but you could fit like four hundred people in this courtyard

37:50

that could look in to the show.

37:52

And it was I mean, it was just irresponsible, like you know, fire

37:54

Hazard on fire Hazard. But was it good.

37:57

I've only ever heard I think, like one song, but I

37:59

know the stick Oh yeah, he told

38:01

he had but he I saw him head butt people

38:03

and it was just like what, I don't

38:06

nothing about this feels right, Like this just

38:08

feels weird. But it was,

38:11

I mean, it was it was funny. And then you said that you

38:13

also see there was another artist,

38:15

the Kids of Whitney High which was basically

38:18

um the Uh. This

38:20

was a special education music program

38:23

located in Los Angeles that these kids

38:25

would work with their high school teachers, UH

38:28

to be able to you know, like create

38:30

music. And like you know, they were they were you know,

38:32

afflicted with you know, a variety of different

38:35

circumstances either you know, like mentally

38:37

capacitated or like you know, they're in a wheelchair or whatever.

38:39

And it was probably one of the most joyful shows I've

38:41

ever seen because these kids were singing like the

38:44

you know, the just like the coolest,

38:46

like most upbeat songs possible. Their music

38:48

teachers were playing behind them and it was

38:50

like just so so cool. But anyway, and then Mike

38:52

Patton from Faith No More put out the record and anyways,

38:55

but I digress. But like that's the sort

38:57

of space in which bands of

38:59

all different genre as would play. So it was yeah,

39:02

but it's like we were lucky enough to have something

39:04

like that. Um and yeah,

39:06

but anyways, that's uh, that's the that's the that's

39:08

the beauty of uh, you know, finding these spaces

39:11

and then actually having volunteers

39:13

be able to like you know, work on it and everything

39:15

like that. So it's really cool. Yeah,

39:17

it's awesome. Yeah, I love the others kind of things.

39:20

Yeah, well, dude, I really appreciate you hanging

39:22

out because yeah, I just I'm I

39:24

am a genuine fan of your music, and I

39:27

think that most people will that listen

39:29

to the show will genuinely like what you do. So

39:31

you everyone encourage you to

39:33

check out all of the music that's that Amens

39:35

put out because you will enjoy it. So but thank you for

39:37

doing this, dude. Thanks for I appreciate

39:39

it's being a boss. So winter is

39:42

probably ending for you in some way,

39:44

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make your life better. All right, now

40:56

on with the show. All right? That

40:58

was amen. You need to check out his band Holy

41:00

Pinto Super super Good and

41:03

um yeah, so now here is

41:05

the interview that I did with Cody, and I

41:07

hope you enjoy it. You

41:18

know, Like I mentioned that I had seen

41:20

Murgencery Devil's play many many

41:22

times. But I unfortunately

41:25

have a bone to pick with you, Cody, because you you sent

41:27

my arm hairs at the PC

41:29

Club with you guys in the locust and

41:31

that's where you know, you let your symbols on

41:34

fire, and you know you hit him and I was standing

41:36

a little bit too close and so so yeah, you burnt

41:38

my arm hairs and that's okay. Well you learned

41:40

a valuable lesson I did,

41:42

basically, and you acted like my

41:44

father in a way. Yeah yeah, yeah, you

41:46

know it's the best you you learned about the dangers

41:48

of fire and uh boundaries

41:51

and uh you

41:53

know, I bet you felt alive for

41:55

a second there, I did,

41:58

and like I I just it

42:00

was it was one of I mean, you know, the PC Club

42:02

and it was just like, oh my gosh, like I you know, this

42:04

is obviously the era before a Great White and everything

42:06

else happened. But yeah, that was

42:09

that that proved my mind. But I still like you guys, So it

42:11

was cool. I didn't hold Harvard to resent, of course, you well,

42:13

I'm glad it wasn't. I'm

42:15

glad it wasn't a serious injury or anything like that.

42:17

That would be yes, that would be yeah,

42:20

that would be a much different conversation for having right now.

42:22

It would. It would. It's like, yeah,

42:24

it's this whole big ruse that I'm like, I have an interview

42:26

for you my podcast, and I'm gonna talk about suing

42:28

you now twenty years later. Man, yeah,

42:31

I'm I mean the

42:34

amount of times that we did that in the different

42:36

small rooms that it happened in, I'm

42:40

in retrospect totally amazed

42:42

that nothing horrible

42:44

will happened at any point. Yes, that is

42:47

like nobody, nobody was harmed, and I

42:49

think the closest we came was actually lit

42:51

Spencer's pants on fire one

42:53

time. But it was it was fine. But man,

42:56

like, yeah, it could it could have

42:58

It could have turned differently, but um

43:00

yeah, all joking aside the

43:04

the idea that I saw you guys with so many

43:06

different styles of bands, where it's like, you know,

43:08

you came down with the Locusts and you know, you

43:10

toured with the Black Halos and stuff like that, and

43:13

I know, um, you know, it's something that I've

43:15

noticed you kind of mentioned in other interviews

43:17

where there was always this, uh

43:20

this this desire for you guys to you know, be

43:23

a rock and roll band, but you know, you always kind of ended

43:25

up playing with you know, punker hardcore bands because it

43:27

was much better than you know, playing with you

43:30

know, the or or getting

43:32

wedged into like a rockabilly world and

43:34

stuff like that, which is something you guys never really

43:36

wanted to. Uh So,

43:40

the you know, the idea that there was kind

43:42

of the people

43:44

were trying to you know, put a square peg in a round

43:46

hole where they were taking mercenary devils

43:48

and trying to put them into different environments.

43:51

What are some of those environments that you remember

43:53

where it was like, oh, dude, like

43:55

maybe stylistically this makes sense, but like

43:58

vibe wise, this is horrible. Uh

44:03

oh boy, that's that's a you

44:06

got me reaching back now and a

44:09

lot of mileage. The

44:13

thing I remember most is just like kind of like

44:15

having to stay on top of like poster

44:19

designs like we

44:21

played. I remember we played like some shows like The

44:23

Reverend Horton Heat once and that

44:26

was just like, uh, like

44:28

like that didn't go great,

44:30

uh in

44:33

terms of like this is not what we want to be.

44:35

I think after that happened, that's when like the poster

44:37

show posters and stuff, it's like everyone

44:40

started to look like, you know, like rat Fink

44:42

and and so we had to like

44:44

put out like a call. It's like, okay, there can't be

44:47

any horned devil girls with their

44:49

boobs out in a hot rod

44:52

with an eight ball shifter. And you

44:54

know, it's like that started to happen.

44:56

It was like no, no, no, no, no, it's

44:59

not what we're trying in to do. Uh. But

45:03

I don't know. We played with a lot of weird different bands

45:06

and sometimes it works, sometimes

45:08

it didn't. Like we had a great

45:10

time playing with Pearl Jam uh

45:14

who we had we played with. I

45:16

think we played with the Flaming Groovies once.

45:19

Now we put an X we

45:22

played, Uh,

45:25

it was it was all fine. Um,

45:28

I can't I can't think of it. I

45:31

know there is times where we were like super bummed

45:34

on on how it turned out, but yeah, it

45:36

might take me a second. No, it's

45:39

totally fine. I just think it's something

45:41

that I guess did never really occurred

45:44

to me, but you know, in seeing it from

45:46

your point of view, where I could easily see people

45:48

on the outside being like, oh yes,

45:51

like you know, looking at their cover art and looking

45:53

at the fact that they're a rock and roll band that has like

45:55

a switchblade on the cover, like of course it

45:57

makes sense for them to play you know, Nanny.

45:59

Yeah, Like I just never thought about in

46:01

those terms, but I can easily see where you

46:03

guys were just kind of you know, assaulted

46:05

by that, you know, time and time again, where it's

46:08

just like no, but like that's not our scene, that's not what

46:10

we're doing. Yeah, I mean,

46:13

I feel like it happened so many times that

46:16

it kind of became our comfort zone. Like

46:19

just a couple of years ago, we played at the Psycho

46:22

Fest in in Las Vegas, and

46:25

we were I think we were playing in front

46:27

of Swans and

46:29

Mastodon and everybody

46:32

else in the lineup. It seemed to be largely

46:34

a very like stoner rock metal uh

46:37

centric lineup, so excuse

46:41

me, um,

46:43

we didn't really feel like we belonged in that lineup,

46:45

But what it ended up being like a super

46:47

great show, Like I felt

46:49

like we were when

46:52

we feel like we're behind enemy lines, and a certain

46:54

degree like where it's like we don't

46:57

belong here, but we're here. I

46:59

think that's where we kind of like became

47:02

comfortable, uh, because

47:05

it's like the pressure is off, yes, or

47:08

it's like all right, like let's just go for it. Yeah,

47:10

what does just go for it? And like yeah, exactly

47:12

exactly that those always ended

47:14

up being like our best shows or my

47:17

favorite shows anyway, we're just like, al

47:20

right, we don't belong here, these people don't want us here.

47:22

Fuck it, let's go, and it ends up being

47:24

you know, just a slight confrontational edge. Everything

47:27

really really helps things out a lot. Yeah.

47:29

I really like that point because I think that's i mean,

47:32

clearly big businesses existed in that world as

47:34

well, where it's just like, well, we don't belong here. So like

47:36

you know, you're gonna you're you're gonna sit with us for you

47:38

know, half an hour or forty minutes or whatever, and then maybe you'll

47:41

like some of the things that we do. But I

47:43

do think that there is that element of like,

47:46

all right, you know, you you're standing

47:48

in front of a crowd that has there you know, they're

47:51

cross me arms, like oh, okay, impress

47:53

me banned, like show me what's up, guys, and

47:56

then you kind of just have to play through that and then maybe

47:58

at the end of it some of those will turn around to like, oh,

48:00

those guys weren't so bad. Yeah,

48:04

it happens. It's it's I don't know, I

48:06

like it. I like it, uh

48:09

both ways too. I like it when I

48:12

think my favorite kind of shows to play is like a small

48:14

capacity club that's

48:16

full, you know, and maybe the stage is low to the

48:18

ground and you're like right there with everybody.

48:21

It's just the most like it seems

48:23

like everybody gets the energy that's

48:25

like bouncing back and forth, and

48:28

it makes for things accelerate a lot

48:30

faster, I guess. Uh. But

48:32

yeah, it's always like sometimes

48:37

you end up playing in a place like nobody knows

48:39

where you are or nobody knows who you are. You

48:42

know, they're not familiar with your band, and yeah,

48:44

you don't fit into the other bands

48:47

on the bill. Uh, But

48:49

it's fun. It's cool. I like I

48:52

like when uh yeah, people are like, wow,

48:54

I didn't expect you guys to sound like that. It was awesome,

48:57

or you know, the next day you read

48:59

whatever like that was the worst show

49:01

I've ever seen in my life. Like they're just totally

49:03

not into it at all, And that's totally okay

49:06

to um

49:09

so kind of kind of putting the focus on you as a

49:11

person. Uh, were you born and raised in the Seattle

49:13

area? I actually could first sort of from

49:15

a biographical perspective, I wasn't able to track

49:17

that. Yeah, I was. I was born in Bellingham,

49:20

Washington, which is right up by the Canadian border.

49:22

And then I went to like

49:25

middle school and high school in Mount Vernon,

49:27

Washington, which is kind of in between

49:29

Bellingham and Seattle. And then as

49:31

soon as I got out of high school, I moved

49:33

to uh, Seattle

49:36

and I was there for about fourteen years. I guess

49:38

got it? Got it? And what was your family

49:40

structure like growing up like brothers and sisters, mom and dad

49:42

in the house or how did that look? My

49:45

my biological parents got divorced

49:48

when I was like three years old. Um,

49:51

so I lived with my mom um they

49:54

both remarried, uh,

49:57

and it wasn't I

50:01

was like an only child, kind of bouncing around a little

50:03

bit. I have a half sister, but we didn't really

50:06

grow up together. She's

50:08

great, she's were. I mean, we're we like each

50:10

other a lot, but uh,

50:12

we just didn't spend that much time together growing up.

50:15

And yeah, I was just

50:17

kind of like, uh,

50:19

my parents I was living with, they weren't my

50:22

stepdad and my mom. They didn't have the

50:24

uh, the happiest marriage, and so they

50:26

were kind of preoccupied with to

50:29

my memory anyway, they're kind of preoccupied with

50:32

their unhappy marriage in my you know,

50:35

middle school, high school years. Uh

50:38

So it's kind of I feel

50:40

like I'm a large part

50:42

of that. I was kind of on my own a little bit to kind

50:44

of figure things out for myself and

50:47

you know, sure figure out

50:49

who I was or whatever, what my

50:52

identity was and stuff, just

50:54

kind of without any you

50:56

know, yeah

51:00

teing so to speak. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

51:02

yeah, um, and kind I mean, I

51:04

guess be sort of because of that,

51:06

like as you were, you know, watching, because

51:09

you recognize the fact where it's just like, oh, man, like you

51:11

know, they have their own problems. It seems like they're they're

51:13

dealing with what they have to deal with,

51:16

and you know, I'm you know, not an afterthought,

51:18

but you know, clearly they have to take a deal

51:20

with what they're dealing with. Um,

51:23

you know, did that did that like I guess,

51:25

way on you or was that one of those things where you're just like, okay,

51:27

cool, Like I got more time to you know, work

51:30

on myself and you know, figure out all those stupid

51:32

stuff I'm into. Uh,

51:37

one was probably kind of like a product or

51:39

the other. Like, I mean, nobody likes to feel like they're an

51:41

inconvenience or anything like that. But

51:45

yeah, I just you know, once I got into music and

51:48

stuff like that was really my escape

51:50

from all of that, and you

51:52

know, quickly found a bunch of the friends and who

51:55

are into the same thing. And and uh,

51:59

a pair of my friends had a some

52:01

really cool parents with a really big house kind of

52:03

out in the out of the county a little bit, so

52:05

they totally let us turn the basement into you know,

52:07

a jam space and that's like where I learned how

52:10

to play the drums um and

52:12

they were great. So we always had a you

52:14

know, I had a pretty tight circle of friends and we

52:16

always had a place to go and everything like that. So it

52:18

was it was fun. You know, it was all right, and

52:20

I didn't always have to like go

52:23

home if I didn't want to, you know, Yeah, no,

52:25

that's cool. I've always

52:27

really like how there is, you know, within a circle

52:29

of whatever, you know, six to ten friends,

52:32

there always happens to be that house

52:34

that is kind of the house where people congregate

52:37

and you know, I can feel not

52:39

only safe, but just be like, oh yeah, like this is a

52:41

good space. And then on top of that, all for

52:44

them to allow you to play drums there is that that's

52:46

a pretty It's uh,

52:48

you know. The sainthood is like

52:50

I can't imagine, you know, in

52:53

your leisure time, in you know, later in life,

52:55

in your in your safe place, having to listen to

52:58

some kid learn how to play the drum

53:01

for hours and hours and hours. You know, Like

53:03

I I can't believe they did that. So I

53:05

always I love them very much.

53:07

There. I also on record,

53:10

I love my mom very much too. I don't want to make it sound

53:12

like but like she's going

53:14

through a rough time at the same the

53:16

same time I was, you know, but uh,

53:19

it was it was it was great being

53:21

able to you know,

53:23

have a have a place to go and and

53:25

and you know, write stupid

53:28

songs and be

53:30

terrible and have a really fun time,

53:32

you know, right right, um

53:35

until like we're we're drums kind of like

53:37

the always the focal point, Like

53:40

was that the first instrument you were attracted to, or did you

53:42

like mess around the guitar first and then dive onto drums

53:44

or was drums like it? No, it was

53:46

drums from a very early age. I had an

53:48

uncle who played drums, and I thought he's the coolest

53:50

and that I knew from really early

53:52

on that that's what I wanted to do it.

53:55

But I, yeah, I

53:57

don't. I don't know why I never, like, I

54:01

guess I wasn't in a joint or inner

54:03

frame of mind in school or

54:06

I don't know why I never joined the band or did marching band

54:08

or anything like that. But I really wanted to play

54:10

the drums. But at the same time, I was like, I don't know if I

54:12

want to. I guess I wanted to do it

54:14

in my way or whatever the way that was fun. But

54:17

yeah, I never got into like being

54:19

playing music in school right

54:22

right, Yeah, which I probably I probably would

54:24

have had a leg up doing that, you know. Sure,

54:28

I do think that there is that initial attraction

54:30

from most kids to drums,

54:32

just because you know the

54:35

idea of like, oh, there's no like quote unquote

54:37

notes. You know it's like I just need

54:39

to hit this thing hard or whatever. Um

54:41

that that I guess, primal attraction to it.

54:43

It seems to always um you know, spark

54:46

a few kids that instrument.

54:49

Plus it's like, I mean you're playing an instrument

54:51

that looks like a car or something. You know, Like it's

54:54

like I

54:56

remember my uncle's first kid is this like blue Sparkle

54:58

Ludwig kit, And I just remember thinking it

55:00

look like a sports car or something. Oh

55:03

man, that's so cool. I'm

55:06

the pilot of this thing. That's cool exactly. Yeah.

55:08

I never thought about it in those terms. But yeah, it doesn't make sense

55:10

where it's like you're you're sitting behind this thing

55:12

and just yeah, you're that's cool. I didn't

55:15

think about it like that. Um

55:18

So, how like how did the um I

55:20

guess the more sort of like independent

55:23

d I y stuff kind of come into your life? Was

55:25

that it sounds like you're a group of friends

55:27

were all kind of ping ponging bands back and forth

55:29

with one another. Was that kind of the the incubation

55:31

stage? Yeah for sure.

55:34

Uh, you know, just everybody playing with whoever they

55:36

could. You know, it's a pretty small town Mount

55:38

Vernon. So it was just kind of friends

55:41

starting bands and then we play whatever

55:43

party was happening, or you

55:45

know, a dragon generator out into the woods

55:48

like we you know, a keg and a

55:50

bonfire or

55:53

like at the grange, the

55:55

Rexville Grange. Um,

55:59

yeah, it was. It was just playing wherever you could,

56:01

and uh it was great.

56:04

It was really fun. All was I

56:07

like all those guys and I miss all those guys and

56:09

and uh it was it

56:11

was a fun time, you know. Sure. So,

56:13

so what we're the kind of the sort of beginning

56:16

bands that you were, you know, attempting

56:18

to rip off that were you know, influences

56:20

in your early early playing days. Um,

56:25

well, we we love the Melvin's.

56:28

Uh we loved uh

56:32

just weird band, I agree. I was really into t Rex

56:35

and in in Queen and stuff like that,

56:38

and uh, I don't know,

56:40

just like psychedelic weird bands, um

56:43

go it. Yeah, And

56:46

until I didn't, I didn't get into like like

56:49

hardcore and stuff like that, U til way way

56:51

later. Again, Like I

56:53

really could have used a couple of older

56:55

siblings to like jump

56:58

start me into like you know, culture, music,

57:00

culture or whatever. But it's like a lot of the a

57:02

lot of the stuff that everybody had already been way into

57:06

by the time I was like eighteen or nineteen, I was just

57:08

getting turned onto like you know, like the history

57:11

of like American punk rock and

57:13

how it influenced British punk rock

57:15

and you and all the ins and outs

57:17

of all that. Like I totally didn't

57:20

get into that till you know, later

57:23

in my life, like when I like years

57:25

old. You know, sure, sure, well in

57:27

many respects, that's um, you know, I

57:29

think that's pretty cool because

57:32

when you and I'm sure you can attest

57:34

to this, like when you're young and you're just kind of, you

57:36

know, consuming music, like you really

57:39

are just listening to music kind of for music's

57:41

sake, Like you've got no context

57:43

for you know, a scene and like what's cool and

57:46

not cool, Like you're just getting into kind of everything,

57:48

and like even though you may be picking up stuff that is

57:50

like you know, quote unquote lame from

57:52

whatever your friends are judging you, you're just kind of like

57:55

sure ahead, yeah,

57:57

and there's no it's there's something to be

57:59

said for the street of it all, you know, like where it's

58:01

like I don't know what the rules of this game are

58:03

at all, so therefore

58:06

anything is possible, like I can do anything,

58:09

you know, and it's I

58:11

like, you

58:13

know, it's kind of like the argument of like like low art

58:15

and high art or whatever, where it's like the more educated you are

58:18

about what the rules are in this certain

58:20

discipline, the more constrained you are

58:22

by you know, that

58:25

genre and and like adhering to

58:27

those those rules. And it was I just

58:29

remember being like

58:32

learning to play drums and learning like how a song

58:34

was put together and like how it just

58:36

like it's a total

58:38

open ended thing, you know, like I have no idea what

58:41

the rules to this game are at all. I know I

58:43

like it, and I know like this and I know like this, I'm

58:45

not sure why. I don't know where this came from.

58:48

Like I don't know where it's going, but like we're

58:51

gonna, you know, gonna throw this at

58:53

the wall and see if it sticks. And like it

58:56

was just a like it felt free, you know, and you're

58:58

just figuring all that out, taking

59:01

taking wild stabs in the dark. You know, sure,

59:03

sure, totally, No, it's cool because yeah, there's

59:05

like you said, there's there's no rules and it's all just being

59:07

kind of you know, thrown out there in a very

59:10

care free way as opposed to um,

59:13

like you said, once you have all these other

59:15

contextual evidence

59:17

base things kind of in your head where it's just like, oh, I guess

59:19

maybe this shouldn't go together like this. It's like, oh man,

59:22

whatever, we'll just do it. Yeah exactly.

59:24

UM. So, I mean clearly

59:26

like Murdercary Devils wasn't like your first

59:29

band. Um, you know, walk me through some of those like

59:31

early band years where you were, you

59:34

know, just obviously trying to figure out what you were doing

59:36

playing drums and playing shows and stuff like that,

59:38

because they have to have of course, horrible

59:40

band names that I imagine are oh

59:42

yeah, oh yeah,

59:44

yeah. I was in a band,

59:48

the most metal band I was in. Uh

59:51

in mal Vernon We actually are big. Are

59:53

Big. One of the most embarrassing nights of my life. We

59:56

got to open for seven year Bitch. Okay.

59:59

They came through our town and it was like it

1:00:01

was such a big deal. I've actually told the story to uh

1:00:04

Selene before, But

1:00:09

well, I was in a band called Cranial Decomposition.

1:00:12

It's such a good yeah. And

1:00:15

they were like a band. It was like a rotating

1:00:17

lineup sort of band, Like they started out with

1:00:19

their original lineup and they kind of switched out

1:00:21

some members. So I was like in cranial

1:00:23

decomposition mark three. Like

1:00:26

it was like a couple of young kids. I think

1:00:28

it was the original lead singer and

1:00:30

the rest of us were like, you know, sophomores

1:00:32

in high school or like freshman in high school. Uh.

1:00:37

And I was so excited. I love seven year bitch

1:00:39

and like, I was so excited for the show. And I had a

1:00:41

huge, huge crush on the drummer and

1:00:44

I was like, I think

1:00:46

I was had to be fifteen at the time, like fifteen

1:00:48

or sixteen, and uh,

1:00:51

I had this my borrowed set that I got

1:00:53

from my uh my karate instructor

1:00:56

was it was a it

1:00:58

was a Thomas set, but it had one

1:01:01

of those like rack systems, so

1:01:04

that's not cool at all, right, So

1:01:06

it just had like the huge football goal

1:01:09

post racked sitting

1:01:11

up there and we practice

1:01:13

some practice and practice, and I was so excited for the show,

1:01:15

and like the whole town was just it was at the park, like the

1:01:17

local park hall,

1:01:19

Greenshall or whatever. And

1:01:22

uh, we got there and started

1:01:24

playing and like I

1:01:26

think we got like one or two songs in and our

1:01:28

lead singer just like started

1:01:31

getting quieter and quieter, and

1:01:33

then he like I'm watching him and I'm playing and

1:01:35

he like then he just like sat down on the edge

1:01:37

of the stage and he looked like he was shrinking.

1:01:40

He was just like deflating, and he got

1:01:42

quire and quieter, and then he just like put the mic down

1:01:44

and like just like hung his head down and

1:01:47

he just like quit singing in the middle

1:01:49

of the set, and

1:01:52

we're just kind of like looking so like so

1:01:54

we like stopped and like, dude, what's

1:01:56

going on. He was just like you

1:01:59

just kind of like wand it off and that

1:02:01

was the end of the show. And I was just like, oh, oh

1:02:04

my god, Like I was so

1:02:06

horrified, and like I

1:02:08

was just like I'm gonna hang out with these girls and it's

1:02:10

it's gonna be awesome and they're a red band and

1:02:13

maybe we can play with them in Seattle, and I got

1:02:15

so excited. And then it was just like afterward, I didn't

1:02:17

want to talk to eat any of them. Like I

1:02:20

was just totally horrified.

1:02:23

It's terrible. Was that was my

1:02:25

first like high stakes we

1:02:28

played, and it was it

1:02:31

didn't like you wanted. It didn't,

1:02:33

it didn't had it had a very Charlie Brown Indian. I

1:02:35

remember actually walking home by myself in the rain

1:02:38

too, and you know as the Christmas

1:02:40

team from Charlie Band played in my head of

1:02:43

course, yeah yeah, and Lucy Lucy

1:02:45

pulls a football away from you over

1:02:47

and over again. Yeah. I really

1:02:50

like that story because you do, you

1:02:52

know, as a as a young person, like you build

1:02:54

up this this course of action of

1:02:56

what will happen where it's just like, dude, we're gonna play

1:02:58

the show. It's gonna be awesome, We're to make friends, and

1:03:00

like you said, all maybe we'll open for them in Seattle,

1:03:03

and like it's just gonna be the beginning. And then yeah

1:03:05

yeah yeah, nope,

1:03:07

not at all. Not so fast there's sport.

1:03:10

Yeah, but I mean, you

1:03:14

know, like it was kind

1:03:16

of a good lesson where it's

1:03:18

like, you know, it's not that big of a deal in the in the

1:03:20

huge scheme of things like blowing

1:03:22

a show or having a terrible show. It's like it

1:03:25

just doesn't matter, Like you can play another

1:03:27

show even like um,

1:03:30

it became in later years good friends

1:03:32

with Kim Warnick from The Fast

1:03:35

Backs. I don't know, and she

1:03:37

was, She's a really good friend of mine, and I remember

1:03:39

talking about records. It once I

1:03:41

was stressed out about some record we were making,

1:03:43

and she was like, Hey, you know what the great thing is

1:03:45

about rock and roll records and the like

1:03:47

what She's like, you can always make another one. It's

1:03:50

like that, you know,

1:03:53

It's It's not the end of the world by a

1:03:55

long shot, you know, Yeah, for sure, Yeah,

1:03:57

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1:03:59

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1:04:02

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1:04:05

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1:04:07

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And you know you as a person from

1:05:18

just the way that you, you you know, you project yourself outwardly

1:05:20

and kind of you know, how you've you you're

1:05:23

well, I'm not gonna say like the personality you've built,

1:05:25

because that sounds like it's some you know, it's

1:05:27

some you know, over overretching plan

1:05:29

of yours or whatever. But you know, there's clearly

1:05:32

a self deprecating sense of humor that has you

1:05:34

know, been a through line in the way that you have

1:05:36

kind of always been, um, you know, and how

1:05:38

you kind of present yourself in interview and all that sort of

1:05:40

stuff. Um, was that always kind

1:05:42

of the way that you are and were where

1:05:44

you were, you know, it's like, oh, yeah, Cody's kind of the class

1:05:46

client or whatever. He's just the guy that likes to, you know, take

1:05:49

the piss out of people. Is that something that has always

1:05:51

kinda been you or is that something that you just kind of,

1:05:53

you know, grew into as you got older. I

1:05:56

think there's a deep vein of like sarcasm that runs

1:05:59

in the my mom's side of the family. Uh,

1:06:03

but I feel like that's how I've always been in my circle

1:06:05

of friends, like in a in a in

1:06:09

a relaxed environment, or I'm not I've never

1:06:11

been that way outwardly, like

1:06:14

I was, like, I feel maybe somebody else

1:06:16

has a totally different perception of me in

1:06:18

like middle school in high school, but like I felt

1:06:20

like I was like constantly mortified

1:06:25

just being so like socially

1:06:28

awkward and totally paralyzed

1:06:30

in public, you know, like in you

1:06:34

know, as everybody does when they're a young

1:06:36

teenager and your body is weird

1:06:39

and you don't know how to act in in

1:06:41

you know, in social situations. But

1:06:45

once I got around, like, you know, I had a couple

1:06:47

of really good friends where, you know, when we were hanging

1:06:49

out together, that's you know, it was just shooting

1:06:52

the ship and uh yeah,

1:06:55

like that that kind of sense of humor just like I

1:06:57

guess it's like kind of Brady whatever. Yeah,

1:07:03

it's it's all in fun. But like yeah, I mean

1:07:05

there's always this I don't know if it's a Northwest thing either

1:07:07

too, but yeah, it's always a kind of sense of like nobody

1:07:11

is really better than anybody else. Like there's like,

1:07:13

you know, I definitely felt like there

1:07:15

was a anybody ever got

1:07:17

too big for their birches in my circle of friends.

1:07:19

Like you're definitely like taking down a pig immediately,

1:07:23

and you know, remember like who

1:07:25

do you think you are? Again? Yeah you're not You're not

1:07:27

going yeah, yeah, you've

1:07:30

never been cool, right, yeah, we're all we're

1:07:32

all just kind of figuring this out like absolute

1:07:35

fools. Yes yeah.

1:07:38

Um. And then you know, kind of as

1:07:40

you started to you know, play shows and

1:07:43

you know, school and all these things that were happening,

1:07:45

was there ever kind of any other sort of path

1:07:48

for you once music kind of you know took

1:07:50

hold or was it one of those things where you're just like, no, man,

1:07:52

I just want to play music, like you know, I'm not gonna you

1:07:54

know, try to be a veterinary or whatever. You

1:07:57

know, all these other career paths and stuff

1:07:59

like that kind of came into play.

1:08:02

No, I was pretty much committed to doing this.

1:08:04

I figured as long as I had a

1:08:07

chance to do it

1:08:09

for real, I would try

1:08:11

to be as good at it as I possibly

1:08:13

could and take it as far

1:08:16

as I possibly could. Just in not

1:08:18

in any sort of like

1:08:21

like I know enough about music history until

1:08:23

like it's like I'm going to be a rich

1:08:25

guy or I'm gonna be It was more like I

1:08:28

really wanted to be Uh,

1:08:31

I don't just see what would happen, like like be

1:08:33

as good as I possibly could be in the you know, like

1:08:36

fully commit to whatever band I was playing

1:08:38

with and try to do our

1:08:40

best and take it

1:08:43

hopefully do something that no one's ever done before.

1:08:45

Hopefully do something that's ours that you

1:08:47

know, we'll maybe last a little while. Uh,

1:08:50

something unique, you know, a

1:08:53

contribution to something

1:08:55

like if if if, if

1:08:57

I may be so bold like that, that's just yeah,

1:09:01

that would be the the ultimate goal, you know, like

1:09:03

to do something, make

1:09:05

something in a way that's totally unique

1:09:07

to who we are, and uh

1:09:12

be glad of that. I guess I don't know, yeah,

1:09:15

well, I mean you there

1:09:17

are definitely people that you know, like once they start

1:09:19

to playing bands and tour and start to kind of experience

1:09:21

that lifestyle that have

1:09:24

the nut the idea in their head where it's like, yeah,

1:09:26

this is a finite time in my life, you know, and like

1:09:28

whether or not they can actually vocalize that, it's a different

1:09:30

story. But it's just like oh, yeah, like you know, I'm not going to be you

1:09:33

know, fifty and playing in a hardcore band or whatever.

1:09:35

But there are people such as yourself

1:09:37

who are just like, well, I like to play drums and I like to

1:09:39

play drums aggressively. I'm just going to figure out,

1:09:41

you know, I can play in different type

1:09:43

of aggressive ish rock bands

1:09:45

or whatever. So it's like, yeah, there's there's kind of two different

1:09:47

paths, So I understand what you're talking about, though. Yeah,

1:09:50

it's kind of it. I don't know if it's like a sick It's

1:09:52

always like, right when I'm about to lose hope completely,

1:09:56

there's just enough of a glimmer of

1:09:58

light of hope just to pull me back in again.

1:10:00

And like every every time I've like

1:10:02

almost been just like maybe

1:10:05

I should figure something else out. To do here because

1:10:07

it's just like how am I going to keep

1:10:09

doing this forever? Like every time that happens, there's just

1:10:11

like a little beam of light gleams

1:10:14

through and like sucks me back in again. So

1:10:16

I don't I don't know. It never was a conscious

1:10:19

choice, but like as long as like you

1:10:21

know, I can pay rent and

1:10:25

we can do a little better next time. Like

1:10:27

it's I'm curious to

1:10:29

see where it's all gonna go. You know. It's like if

1:10:31

yeah, if it if it keeps going, it keeps going, that's that's

1:10:33

what you'll You'll you'll keep following that. Um

1:10:36

and kind of all that, I presume that like you

1:10:38

didn't you know that you go to college and like pursue

1:10:41

any degrees from that perspective or was it basically all

1:10:43

just no no no, yeah no no. Um,

1:10:46

So you know, how did your I guess

1:10:48

you know, how did your mom and dad and like your your

1:10:50

family at large of being like yeah, I understanding,

1:10:53

like drums Cody, but like come on, like that

1:10:55

that's not gonna that's not gonna provide you susidence.

1:10:58

Or did they just basically like hey man, pursue what

1:11:00

you did too? At

1:11:02

first, it was when I first

1:11:04

was doing it. Uh my mom of

1:11:06

course was very resistant to

1:11:08

the idea of me doing that like as a profession.

1:11:11

But they love it now,

1:11:13

Like they every time we play up in the Northwest,

1:11:15

they come to the shows. Um

1:11:18

nice there they

1:11:20

know that, Like I think

1:11:22

they're they recognize

1:11:25

that, like I've really

1:11:27

put my time and effort and

1:11:29

in skill into

1:11:32

this, and um,

1:11:35

I think they think I'm good.

1:11:38

So it's like, I think they

1:11:40

enjoy it. And they you know, they like coming

1:11:43

out and seeing people rocking out

1:11:45

to our band and and doing whatever, and they think

1:11:47

it's they think it's great. So they're I

1:11:50

don't know if they understand it completely,

1:11:52

but they I

1:11:54

think they're fine with it, you know, sure sure,

1:11:56

well yeah, once a

1:11:59

pair is able to see, you

1:12:02

know, their their son or daughter do something in front

1:12:04

of people, it doesn't even need to be a lot of people, but they

1:12:06

can be like wow, like those people are moved

1:12:08

by the thing that they're doing. Like then it makes

1:12:10

it real. Yeah

1:12:12

that's cool. Yeah. Um.

1:12:15

And so then, um, you know, as you

1:12:17

started to kind of get out there and tour, um,

1:12:20

you know, and clearly you've toured for most of your

1:12:22

life, and you know, have all the bands that you've

1:12:24

played and have pretty you know, unrelenting tour

1:12:26

schedules. How you know, and

1:12:29

this may be a pretty complicated question, but like

1:12:31

how is your relationship with touring kind of evolved

1:12:33

and change over time? Because you know, once

1:12:35

you're out there for ten months out of the year, it definitely

1:12:38

feels like you're, you know, in an alternate

1:12:40

state of reality. Um So, how

1:12:42

how is it kind of evolved for you over the time. Uh,

1:12:46

just like learning how to pace yourself a

1:12:48

little bit more, learning

1:12:51

how to get all your ducks in a row ahead of

1:12:53

time. Like a lot

1:12:56

of the hardest part of touring, I think is just the all

1:12:58

the startup stuff you have to do, like making

1:13:02

sure the routings right, making sure, you

1:13:05

know, obviously, like the guarantees are

1:13:07

in place, and and like making sure the

1:13:09

merch is gonna gonna be there, you

1:13:12

know, accurately predicting

1:13:15

what you're gonna sell and and

1:13:18

what's gonna work and who you're playing.

1:13:20

There's just a lot of like startup once once the tour

1:13:22

actually starts, it's just

1:13:26

you know, you're you're kind of in the machine and you just

1:13:28

get into the rhythm of it, and it's it

1:13:31

really becomes about there's so much repetition

1:13:33

that it's it's just about like just

1:13:36

a little details in the set that like

1:13:38

you do, you start to tweak as as the tour

1:13:40

goes along, so it's it

1:13:44

really becomes like detail oriented. I guess

1:13:46

like as you go. But I

1:13:49

guess I've been doing it long enough now where

1:13:51

I really like playing in front of people. Um,

1:13:55

and I like playing shows, and it's fun to like meet

1:13:57

people and and see

1:14:00

other bands and you know, being

1:14:02

different cities and experience you

1:14:05

know, different environments

1:14:08

and like local local

1:14:11

food and like it's just fun.

1:14:13

I like traveling. I like being somewhere different

1:14:15

and uh, getting in front

1:14:17

of people you haven't been in front of before. It's it's it's

1:14:20

fun. I'm sure I can't do it

1:14:22

forever. But you know,

1:14:24

I'm not totally uh, I'm

1:14:26

not totally soured on it. You know. Yeah,

1:14:29

well know that I mean that that that's good, just the

1:14:31

the ability to I guess

1:14:33

look at it um as it as it comes

1:14:35

and as it changes, because you know,

1:14:38

I think people do once

1:14:40

people view touring as a kind

1:14:43

of a job. You know, it's like, oh yes, this is a necessary

1:14:46

not a necessary evil because that makes it sound terrible.

1:14:48

But um, you know, when you have all these

1:14:50

other things in different directors,

1:14:53

it's hard, yeah, and it's a real

1:14:55

like like

1:15:00

a lot can go wrong. And if you're

1:15:02

really not enjoying yourself, if if you

1:15:04

don't really like the band you're in, if you don't really believe

1:15:06

in the band you're in, it doesn't matter how

1:15:08

much money you're making because like at

1:15:10

the end of it all, like that's still like your life.

1:15:13

You know, a year of your life has gone by

1:15:15

after you've done this like touring cycle, and if you're

1:15:17

spending it with people that you don't particularly

1:15:19

particularly like or

1:15:22

playing music that you know you don't

1:15:24

aren't really that into. Like I don't

1:15:26

know what amount of money, it

1:15:28

would have to be a lot of money, like a lot of money

1:15:31

to like to make, but it's still it's like that time

1:15:33

spent. If it's a grind for

1:15:35

you, you know, like it I

1:15:38

can't see you lasting doing it. And also

1:15:40

like when you're that in

1:15:42

that close proximity over that much time with the same

1:15:44

people, it's like, uh,

1:15:47

negativity is super contagious because

1:15:49

there's one person who's just a

1:15:52

black cloud, like it does seep into

1:15:54

everybody else's attitude. So it's really important to keep

1:15:56

things light and try to keep things really

1:15:58

positive as you go long because as

1:16:00

soon as as soon as someone's not having a

1:16:02

good time and like become a total boat

1:16:05

anchor like it, it really does like seep

1:16:07

into every aspect of of your

1:16:10

daily life, you know, right, because that

1:16:12

is your daily life. It's tour it's not that's all it

1:16:14

is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure that makes sense.

1:16:17

Um. The and

1:16:19

it sounds too like the you know, in

1:16:21

in all the bands that you've played in, you have

1:16:24

played some role in regards to kind of

1:16:26

you know, the planning and sort of the business

1:16:28

aspects of the band. Um. And

1:16:30

you know, not everybody is interested

1:16:33

or suited for that. Um. Is that

1:16:35

a correct characterization or do you try to stay as far

1:16:37

away from the business side of things as possible? Not

1:16:39

really, I do. I do what I have to do, Like

1:16:42

if there's aspect of that that needs to

1:16:44

get done, I take care of it. But

1:16:46

it's definitely not my uh,

1:16:49

that's not my forte for sure. Like

1:16:51

in big big business, Jared is like

1:16:54

way more detail business oriented

1:16:57

and as far as like crunchy numbers and doing

1:16:59

all that. We we both pitch in on it, but

1:17:02

it's a man, I just don't

1:17:05

have a great time, right

1:17:07

dealing with that stuff. I don't mind. I usually take

1:17:09

care of like the booking aspect of

1:17:11

it, and like talking to the booking agent about you

1:17:14

know, routing and you know, making

1:17:16

sure that we have an acceptable

1:17:18

amount of days off so we're not completely

1:17:21

killing ourselves. H logistical

1:17:24

stuff like that, you know, But as far as

1:17:26

like business planning and stuff like that,

1:17:28

it's it's not my strongest

1:17:31

suit, right right, yeah,

1:17:33

or not something that you necessarily Yeah,

1:17:36

I don't. I don't know anybody who really

1:17:38

enjoys it. But I'm sure people do. Yeah, Well

1:17:41

they're they're they're usually there's like, you

1:17:43

know, one or two people in the band that are just like they like the

1:17:45

sort of uh, the planning aspect

1:17:47

of it, you know, where it's like, oh cool, I gotta I mean yeah,

1:17:49

because no one really likes like I'll, dude, I can't wait

1:17:51

to you know, look at a spreadsheet for an

1:17:53

hour, looking at the poorer budget or whatever, but gonna

1:17:56

fire up those quick books and go

1:17:59

to town. Don't even other me. Yeah, just

1:18:01

just yeah, I don't want to write songs for a year,

1:18:03

man, just let me just le metting out with quick books. Yeah,

1:18:06

exactly. Um. And

1:18:09

so then, uh, you know, I

1:18:11

especially find that, you know interesting as well, because

1:18:14

you know, I mean, and you're playing with the Melvin's and you

1:18:16

joining some joining

1:18:18

a band that you know clearly already had

1:18:21

their you know, their business sense and

1:18:23

everything else kind of already settled. Um.

1:18:25

Was it interesting for you to kind of join this

1:18:28

uh, sort of well oiled machine that was

1:18:30

like, Cody, we need you to do your drums

1:18:32

man, like you know, do it for these things? Um?

1:18:34

Or? Or was that you know, just made it all the

1:18:37

all the easier for you to be like, yes, of course I

1:18:39

would play with one of my favorite bands

1:18:41

of all time. Uh.

1:18:45

I'm sorry, No, it's okay. I'm

1:18:47

just ask this question again. Is I like,

1:18:50

was it I mean, enjoining

1:18:53

them? Yeah, it's okay, joining the Alvins. Was

1:18:55

it one of those things where it was a very um,

1:18:58

it was very easy for you to kind of join and

1:19:00

basically contribute solely as a drummer.

1:19:03

Or was it, um, you know, basically

1:19:07

was it more freeing to kind of have that those

1:19:09

expectations kind of set, whereas

1:19:12

like you know, when the other bands you played, and like you said,

1:19:14

you kind of have to do these other sort of like business

1:19:16

things that don't necessarily uh

1:19:19

it isn't necessarily something you enjoy, you know. Yeah

1:19:22

it was. It was. I mean, they definitely uh

1:19:26

had their had their ship together as far as like planning

1:19:29

stuff in advance, and yeah,

1:19:31

we weren't so much a part of that at all. And

1:19:34

so it was mostly just like here's where,

1:19:36

here's the tour dates, and you

1:19:39

know, these are the songs that we're gonna practice, you

1:19:42

know. And it

1:19:44

wasn't like we were cut out completely like they you

1:19:46

know, we we talk album covers and and

1:19:48

and you know, like how everything's gonna look. But

1:19:51

it was mostly like you

1:19:53

know, we we were definitely not driving

1:19:55

the steering the

1:19:57

ship or anything like that, U but

1:20:00

I felt like we had plenty to do. It was. It

1:20:02

was It was really fun being

1:20:04

uh adding

1:20:08

our flavor to what we already knew was like

1:20:10

the core of that band, you know, and something we're

1:20:12

familiar with, and yeah it was

1:20:14

it was fun, uh figuring

1:20:17

all that out and playing

1:20:19

with those guys. Sure, sure, but we we we

1:20:21

we we didn't have a lot to do with the business

1:20:24

end of things, right, which

1:20:26

is yeah, I'm sure, like you said, in many

1:20:28

respects, that's that's freeing where you're just like oh

1:20:30

yeah, like you know, they got they already.

1:20:32

They let me know, like you know, the expectations coming

1:20:35

in and like you know, here's what, here's what's happening, and yeah,

1:20:37

I'm gonna show up and do my thing. Yeah

1:20:39

totally. Yeah, that's cool. Junior job. Yeah

1:20:42

yeah, just exactly just do your job, stay about the kit.

1:20:45

Yeah yeah, that's fun, fun

1:20:47

by me. Yeah. Um and

1:20:50

the you know, in almost basically

1:20:53

every interview that I've ever seen, you know, from

1:20:55

you, in regards to you know, big

1:20:57

business as people are just like, oh man, it's

1:20:59

weird because like you're not like a metal band,

1:21:02

but like you're not a sluge band, but you like,

1:21:04

you know, you don't make sense anywhere. Um.

1:21:07

And I mean that's basically

1:21:09

been like that for you know, almost the entire duration

1:21:11

of the band. But you know, by this time, I think

1:21:13

when anytime people will bring that up, I find

1:21:16

it's kind of comical because it's like, well,

1:21:18

you know what big business is at this point, Like you

1:21:20

guys are going to do your own thing and it's going

1:21:22

to be aggressive, but you're not going to be able

1:21:25

to predict what that what that might

1:21:27

mean. Um. Is it kind of comical for me that

1:21:29

people still kind of bring that up and always reference

1:21:31

that. Um, I

1:21:34

guess so, Like it's just like I

1:21:37

do feel like we've kind of like stuck around

1:21:39

long enough now where people are finally starting to

1:21:41

recognize the thing that we what, what

1:21:44

we do, the thing that it is, uh,

1:21:47

and then it is it is kind of its own thing. Um, And

1:21:49

it's great, Like it feels good to finally kind

1:21:52

of get to that point where I

1:21:54

don't feel like everybody who sees us is

1:21:57

totally scratching their heads, you

1:21:59

know, wondering where

1:22:02

to stick us in their mind. But I

1:22:04

do feel like some people just aren't into it. Some people

1:22:06

do want that, Like some people want that, like I

1:22:09

like doom, you know, I like this

1:22:11

kind of metal, and like it's okay,

1:22:14

Like I'm not bummed about it, Like it's

1:22:16

just a I'm

1:22:19

grateful that we're finally getting

1:22:22

to the point where people get

1:22:26

it in a certain way and they understand

1:22:28

what it is that we do and and uh,

1:22:31

we don't have to. I don't feel

1:22:33

like we have to like try to define ourselves or like jam

1:22:36

ourselves into a weird spot that you

1:22:38

know, doesn't necessarily fit, just

1:22:40

so that we can you know, play in front of people or

1:22:43

whatever. So it's a yeah,

1:22:45

but it's all right, okay, yeah, exactly,

1:22:47

yeah, Yeah, that's cool. Um and

1:22:50

kind of you know, the the ideal

1:22:53

referencing kind of something he were saying a little bit earlier in

1:22:55

regards to you know, those those points where

1:22:57

you're just like, oh, man, like you know, maybe

1:22:59

maybe doing this whole drum thing is not what

1:23:01

I need to be doing anymore. You need be shifting my focus or

1:23:04

whatever. Um, you know, because

1:23:06

I mean everybody goes through those moments, you know, in their personal

1:23:08

lives where it's just like, oh, maybe this job isn't right or

1:23:10

whatever. Um. You know, I

1:23:13

guess like, how did you, you know, cope

1:23:15

with yourself as you were sort of trying to you know,

1:23:17

go through those low points of like like

1:23:19

I don't you know, like you said, there was always an opportunity

1:23:22

that kind of came up and you know, push you in that that other

1:23:24

direction. Um. But you know, I

1:23:26

guess how did you kind of you know, give yourself those pep

1:23:28

talks like oh yeah, like I still need to keep going.

1:23:33

Um, that's just it, Like it's

1:23:35

kind of one of those like, uh, I

1:23:38

knew that the job was dangerous when I took

1:23:40

it, scenarios where it's like I I

1:23:42

understood. Actually, when

1:23:45

I first joined Mergercity Devils, I remember meeting

1:23:48

Dan Glucci for the first time, which is how

1:23:50

I came to be in that band. We were

1:23:52

at a party in Seattle and

1:23:55

we just started talking about music and rock and he, you

1:23:57

know, brought up this this idea. He's like,

1:23:59

we are I'm trying to start this band that's like a

1:24:02

rock and roll band, like actual

1:24:04

rock and roll that it's like most of the guys that are

1:24:06

in the band have been you know, like in hardcore

1:24:09

bands and stuff, but we want to play like rock and roll

1:24:11

music. And we

1:24:14

started talking about this and you know, I

1:24:16

was like, oh, I was like, they need a drummer. I

1:24:18

totally want to do this. And you

1:24:21

know, we had this conversation about how like you know, it's

1:24:24

not a lot of happy endings in rock

1:24:26

and roll, it's in

1:24:28

historical historically, there's

1:24:31

every chance that this is going to end badly,

1:24:34

you know. Uh So I

1:24:36

always kind of like remembered

1:24:38

that and it's like, I'm not this

1:24:42

really is about like for me anyway, it's just kind

1:24:44

of about this. I don't know where this is all going

1:24:47

to end up. I don't know. Half

1:24:51

the stuff that I've done, and half

1:24:53

the stuff that I've been able

1:24:55

to do I never would have imagined myself

1:24:57

doing when I was sixteen years

1:24:59

old. You know, sure, I never would

1:25:01

have imagined I was capable of it. So it

1:25:04

only takes a couple of times where you like surprise

1:25:07

yourself. It's

1:25:09

really kind of scary because it's like I, Okay,

1:25:12

I didn't think I could do this. I can totally do this. Like

1:25:14

what else can I do? I really

1:25:16

don't know what's going to happen. So there's

1:25:19

just that like I just I don't know

1:25:22

what's going to happen, but I'm

1:25:24

gonna I'm gonna ride a while longer and see,

1:25:27

I'm gonna see where this ends up. You know. Yeah,

1:25:29

No, I I like that thought process because it

1:25:31

is um yeah, I think it's you

1:25:33

know the way that I mean my personal

1:25:35

relationship. I toured for years and you know, playing bands

1:25:38

and stuff, And the way that I always viewed it was very

1:25:40

much like this is kind of a collection of experiences,

1:25:42

you know, that I'm able to do for as

1:25:45

long as you know, humanly possible. Um,

1:25:47

rather than this like this you know linear

1:25:50

road map where it's like, okay, well by

1:25:52

playing in this band, it'll get me to point B, which

1:25:54

will then get me to point C and point D or

1:25:56

whatever. Um. But yeah,

1:25:58

it's not. It's not this like this grand

1:26:01

plan you know, where most people are expected

1:26:03

to kind of go when they're talking about something that

1:26:05

is like practical and a grown up job

1:26:07

or whatever. Right, yeah, they have their

1:26:09

whole career mapped out ahead

1:26:12

of time. And I mean,

1:26:14

if you can actualize that, like

1:26:16

men, more power to you, Like that's

1:26:19

that's amazing. But I just haven't

1:26:21

thought of it that way. It's been really

1:26:24

mostly about instant gratification on my

1:26:27

part, Like I really enjoy uh

1:26:30

making music with people I respect

1:26:33

and are super talented and

1:26:35

committed to doing it. Like, I don't think a lot of

1:26:37

people realize what a rare thing it is to

1:26:40

get more than a couple of people together to actually

1:26:42

commit to doing something like this. That

1:26:44

doesn't make that much sense. And might not ever

1:26:46

pay off, but like they still

1:26:49

commit to it anyway. It's it's really

1:26:51

difficult to get all those cylinders firing.

1:26:54

Um, so when it happens, it's

1:26:57

realizing that and like having been through it enough times

1:26:59

now, when that that feeling when everything's

1:27:01

hitting and everybody's doing their job and

1:27:04

you've lined everything up, you're on tour, the records

1:27:06

out, it's all happening at once. It's incredible.

1:27:08

It's like winning the lottery. It's like, I can't believe

1:27:10

we did this. Like I can't believe it's all lining

1:27:13

up and we made it happen. Uh,

1:27:16

whatever happens after that, it's fine. But we like, you

1:27:18

know, we somehow exercise our

1:27:21

wheel on the universe. It worked.

1:27:23

So that's it's a it's

1:27:25

it's a great feeling, you know. Yeah, absolutely,

1:27:27

that's really cool. It looks like you're your dog parking

1:27:30

at you. That's the postman.

1:27:33

There you go inside, two

1:27:37

last things before if I let you go, you

1:27:40

know, because you've kind of experienced you know, a

1:27:42

variety of different um, you know, sizes

1:27:44

of bands, you know, I mean Emergency Devil's you know

1:27:46

obviously rose to a certain level of prominence,

1:27:48

big business has you know, been successful in many

1:27:50

rights. Melvin's clearly you know, have had

1:27:53

their UM you know run

1:27:55

the gamut of of sizes of shows that you guys have

1:27:57

played and stuff like that. UM, you

1:28:00

know, like, what are some surreal moments that kind of stick out

1:28:02

to you where I was just like, you know, kind of reflecting

1:28:04

on what you're talking about, Like, man, I can't

1:28:06

even believe like all of these things that

1:28:08

I never would have ever imagined. Um,

1:28:11

you know, me participating in UM

1:28:13

do you have some of those like you know, Hallmark moments where you're

1:28:15

like this is wild and it doesn't even have to be like big shows,

1:28:17

but can just be like I can't even believe I'm like, you

1:28:19

know, jamming in the same room with this person or whatever. Yeah,

1:28:23

I playing with Dale. That was definitely one of those moments,

1:28:25

Like I never thought I would get to do something

1:28:27

like that or be considered, uh

1:28:30

even on the same playing field, you know, Like that

1:28:32

was that was huge. Uh.

1:28:36

The Murder City Doubles, Like pretty early

1:28:38

on, we we got to open for Pearl Jam

1:28:40

for three days and so we

1:28:42

were playing we had only

1:28:45

played in uh, I think the biggest

1:28:47

show that we've ever played at that point was in front of like

1:28:50

maybe like six or seven hundred people, maybe

1:28:52

a thousand maybe. Uh So

1:28:55

it was we're playing an outdoor one of those uh

1:28:57

outdoor shed amphitheaters that whole

1:29:00

twenty people, and

1:29:02

we're rolling up to the show in our really

1:29:05

crappy like converted ambulance touring

1:29:08

van, uh you

1:29:10

know, to do sound check in this huge,

1:29:12

empty, empty amphitheater um

1:29:16

and that that was a real like I

1:29:18

think I've probably told the story before, but it

1:29:21

was a really uh sweet

1:29:23

moment. I was super nervous

1:29:26

right before we played. I

1:29:29

was sitting on the loading dock back behind the stage

1:29:31

and just like kind of like going through the

1:29:33

songs in my head. And you can just hear even

1:29:35

when they're not doing anything like that many people

1:29:38

in one place makes a pretty loud sound.

1:29:41

So just that like idle roar of

1:29:43

like people like on the other side

1:29:46

of that curtain was just like uh

1:29:49

freaking me out pretty pretty hard. And

1:29:52

uh So I'm like sitting there on the loading dock just

1:29:54

like trying to like get ready. I think we were on in like ten

1:29:56

or fifteen minutes or something, and I see

1:29:59

this like out of the corner of my eye. That's like little

1:30:01

guys like walking up and I'm like, I

1:30:03

look over and it's Eddie Vetter and

1:30:06

he I was just like, oh God, like I

1:30:08

don't know if this is what I need right this second.

1:30:11

And he sat down next to me. He's like, hey, man, you okay.

1:30:13

I'm like, yeah, just a bit nervous,

1:30:16

you know, like I've never played in front

1:30:18

of I've never thought I'd played in front of this

1:30:20

many people. This is really crazy. He's like, oh,

1:30:22

He's like listen. He's like, you

1:30:25

get in front of this many people, It's like the energy

1:30:27

of that many people together looks like all these

1:30:29

people want to have a good time. They

1:30:32

want to like like your band. Uh.

1:30:35

He's like, it takes you, believe it or not, takes a lot

1:30:37

to derail that energy and to turn them

1:30:40

against you, Like you would have to do something

1:30:42

really bad to make that happen. He's

1:30:44

like, but he's like, don't worry about it. You're just gonna play the

1:30:46

songs like he's played a million times before. If

1:30:49

any I mean, he's like, I'm gonna be right on the side of the stage

1:30:51

if anything goes wrong, if anything gets

1:30:53

weird, I'll come right out and introduce you guys

1:30:55

as our friends from Seattle, and you guys aren't

1:30:57

gonna have a problem anymore. And

1:31:00

I always really like, I thought that was like the

1:31:02

nicest, sweetest thing, and I was like, dude,

1:31:06

that's so nice, thank you, and you like so I

1:31:09

I got this little tep talk from Eddie Vetter like

1:31:11

right before we went on, and we went out and we played

1:31:13

and it went great, and then you know, I was sitting

1:31:15

there. I don't even remember that part of it because

1:31:18

it went by so fast and it was just so like every

1:31:20

time I look up, I had to look back down at

1:31:23

my drums again because it was just too much to take

1:31:25

in. Because when because like the roof

1:31:27

of the shed, I couldn't

1:31:30

see, you know, people, it's just people going up the hill,

1:31:32

and I know there's more people beyond what I could

1:31:34

see, So it was it was totally mind

1:31:36

boggling. Everybody was super nice

1:31:38

and afterwards, like I was, you

1:31:41

know, I came to and I'm standing on the side

1:31:43

of the stage and Pearl Jam's playing,

1:31:45

and I was just like, God,

1:31:48

I've never in a million years thought I would get to do something

1:31:50

like that, And like I did it, Like I played in

1:31:52

front of that many people. It was totally fine, and these

1:31:55

guys are like treating us so well and

1:31:57

being very very nice to us,

1:32:00

and it was a totally positive experience.

1:32:02

And it just kind of

1:32:04

like put things

1:32:06

in a weird perspective where it's like, yeah, it doesn't matter how

1:32:08

many people you play in front of it. It's like there's

1:32:10

no you can do anything, like

1:32:12

anybody could have done that, like you you can

1:32:15

do all that stuff, like it's fine, You're

1:32:17

gonna be fine, you know. And that was kind

1:32:19

of like I can't imagine doing

1:32:21

something bigger than that, you know, but it

1:32:24

was okay, and I was like, wow, what you

1:32:26

know, what else are you capable of doing?

1:32:28

You know right now? Well, it's it's really

1:32:31

cool because, like I reason not like to ask a specific

1:32:33

questions because people usually do have those moments of

1:32:35

just something that's like you know, so uh,

1:32:38

something that they never thought that they would, you know, achieve

1:32:40

anticipating. It's those little moments I think that really,

1:32:43

um, you know, crystallize why people

1:32:45

pursue creative arts, because it's like it could

1:32:47

be something as simple as like, oh dude, we sold out,

1:32:49

you know, we sold a hundred records at this one

1:32:52

show or whatever. It could be something relatively

1:32:54

quote unquote small, but it's going to be so much

1:32:56

more impactful because you're like, wow, I never thought

1:32:58

that this is what happened. Yeah. I still

1:33:01

this day, I'm like, I can't believe people care

1:33:03

at all. I like when someone's

1:33:06

like, oh, you're like, I just listened to your new records,

1:33:08

like you did that on your own time. I

1:33:10

didn't have to confirm anybody. Yeah, yeah, oh

1:33:12

my god, that's insane. I

1:33:16

barely convinced me to leave the house, you know, like that's

1:33:18

it's amazing. Um.

1:33:21

The last thing I want to hit the ones of you. You know clearly

1:33:23

you live in Los Angeles. Now, how long have you lived in l

1:33:25

A h twelve years? Okay,

1:33:28

And so the I presume the move

1:33:30

down here was, you know, to kind of precipitate

1:33:32

just being you know, I guess even

1:33:35

more active within the context of like the music scene

1:33:37

in general, because like, you moved down here after Murgencity

1:33:39

broke up, right, we

1:33:42

moved down here after a

1:33:44

big business already started and we had done

1:33:46

a couple of tours, um,

1:33:49

and it just kind of lined up where we we

1:33:54

had both kind of like within

1:33:56

a month of each other, for different reasons,

1:33:58

broken up with our respective girlfriends.

1:34:00

And we're both like bartending, and

1:34:03

so we're both like living like vampires and

1:34:05

hadn't seen the sun and months and I

1:34:07

think we're in Milwaukee and it was raining, and we

1:34:10

were just like, if we're gonna go on tour, we can

1:34:12

get bartending jobs in Seattle or

1:34:14

I mean in l A. You know, at least when we

1:34:16

go home it will be sunny and warm. And we're like, yeah,

1:34:18

let's just do it. Like we knew enough people

1:34:20

down here that uh, you

1:34:22

know, we we we had friends down here, the people

1:34:25

that we could you know, hang

1:34:27

out with or or if we needed to

1:34:29

like crash fur for a couple of

1:34:31

nights would be fine. And so we made the

1:34:33

decision then to do that. And then uh,

1:34:37

like a month later, we were back home and like you know, working

1:34:39

our jobs, and that's when Dale called

1:34:41

best if we wanted to possibly do that,

1:34:43

And so that definitely sealed the deal. Like

1:34:46

sure that yeah, that cemented your

1:34:48

your presence here? Yeah? Yeah? Was

1:34:51

it a was it a huge I guess

1:34:53

shift for you you know, coming from a place

1:34:56

that you had known for so long and then moving down

1:34:58

to l A or was it was it easy shift?

1:35:01

Um? It was easy move, like we we we

1:35:04

um. My friend Kevin who he

1:35:07

actually painted the for our first album cover

1:35:09

and he did the second one too, and the second one is like

1:35:12

a model. But Kevin willis

1:35:14

no relation did UH our

1:35:17

first two album covers. And he's also a bar owner,

1:35:19

so he opened, uh, like a sister bar

1:35:22

of bar called the Chacot Lounge that started

1:35:24

in Seattle and then ended

1:35:26

up opening a branch down here. So we

1:35:29

had jobs like immediately, like the night

1:35:31

we rolled into town. I think we rolled into town on New Year's

1:35:34

Day two thousand six, and

1:35:36

I had a shift that night bartending

1:35:39

at the Chot Lounge. So it was like pretty

1:35:41

seamless. And thankfully we

1:35:44

have awesome friends and they helped us out

1:35:46

and uh, but yeah, it was it was pretty

1:35:49

massive. I didn't feel right for a couple of months because

1:35:52

I wake up in the morning, you

1:35:54

know, it's February and it's like seventy two

1:35:56

degrees outside, totally stunnying.

1:35:58

I'm kind of walking around, like walking to get

1:36:00

coffee or whatever, and just like I feel weird. What

1:36:03

is this like, Oh, I'm

1:36:05

I'm I'm happy I have

1:36:08

vitamin D in my system. I like

1:36:11

I'm not freezing cold and wet, and it's

1:36:13

not black outside, you know, so

1:36:16

I I love it down here. It's great. It's

1:36:19

funny you bring up the shot Out Lounge because that that was something

1:36:22

that, um, you know, I know like basically

1:36:24

almost every you know, punk, hardcore

1:36:27

rock, indie rock, you

1:36:29

know, musician within the context of Seattle

1:36:31

has worked there, and uh, you know, has

1:36:34

taken a real sense of pride in working

1:36:36

at that bar, because I mean, I think for what I understand

1:36:38

too, it's like there's a lot of uh you know, like people

1:36:40

cover their cover a ton of each other's ships, and

1:36:42

like, you know, the the employees kind

1:36:44

of make the schedules and stuff like that. I might correct about that or

1:36:47

now. Yeah, pretty much, the the owners Jeff

1:36:49

and Wade are you know, the

1:36:52

patron saints of you know, like the Seattle

1:36:54

music scene pretty much during that time period,

1:36:56

because yeah, everybody would work there. Everybody

1:36:58

was in different bands, so they

1:37:01

were really forgiving about, you know, being gone for weeks at

1:37:03

a time. If you can get your ships covered, you're you're good

1:37:05

to go. Yeah, and I

1:37:08

think it just kind of like added to whatever

1:37:12

the cachet of the bar that you know, you could

1:37:14

go there and maybe you know, John

1:37:16

Atkins would be bartender,

1:37:18

your bartender, the guy from Cobra

1:37:21

High it would be you know, cocktailian. You know. It

1:37:23

was it was a really fun

1:37:25

place to work. Everybody was super cool and uh,

1:37:30

those guys really like you

1:37:32

couldn't have a cooler you know, boss

1:37:35

than that. It was basically it was like, okay,

1:37:37

don't burn the place down. Was it was

1:37:39

the rule and everything else was

1:37:41

you know wild lift. Yeah, well

1:37:44

it's it's just cool because it really all

1:37:47

the descriptions I've ever heard about it, it just really reminds

1:37:49

me of like this, you know whatever. It's like

1:37:51

you know, Vegan Food co op where it's like, you know, ten

1:37:53

people working there and being like, all right, we take pride

1:37:56

in this place. So it's like, you know, everybody showing for their shifts

1:37:58

and don't mess up and do this and like yeah

1:38:00

then we'll all have jobs and we can all you know, tour when

1:38:02

we need to and that sort of stuff. Yeah, that's

1:38:05

incredible. Well yeah, well

1:38:08

Cody, thank you for hanging out. Dude. It's been. It's been

1:38:10

enjoyable for me, and I hope it hasn't been painful for you, not

1:38:13

at all. Thanks, no problem. There

1:38:17

was Cody that was great, and thank you to

1:38:20

Amen for hopping on at the top of the episode.

1:38:22

It was, um, yeah, it was fun. I always like

1:38:24

it when I can do these these double chats, you know, give

1:38:27

you more bang for your proverbial

1:38:29

buck, so to speak. Anyways, next

1:38:31

week is going to be a ram

1:38:34

are Sally Anne. I'm

1:38:36

sorry, all right, am. I knew that

1:38:38

I was never going to be able to pronounce your name appropriately,

1:38:41

but a ram from Champion betrayed

1:38:44

a A. He also did React Records for a

1:38:46

long time, has been a mainstay

1:38:48

within me. You know, Portland's northwest

1:38:51

hardcore scene. Is an incredibly

1:38:54

successful dude on his own right in regards

1:38:56

to he does a lot of you know, corporate

1:38:59

management console ting work, and it's

1:39:01

it's really cool because he basically takes all

1:39:03

of the principles that he has learned from his

1:39:05

punk rock background and applies

1:39:07

it to people who have not bad

1:39:10

the luxury of having that experience. Anyways,

1:39:12

it was a great, great chat and

1:39:14

I'm looking forward to sharing that with you. So that's

1:39:17

what we got and until next week,

1:39:19

please be safe. Everybody, you've

1:39:21

been listening to the jabber Jol podcast network

1:39:24

jabber jaw media dot com. Hey

1:39:36

Miles, it's Jack from

1:39:38

work. Yes, Hi, did you know that we

1:39:40

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What is happening? Are you? Yes? Are

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you confused about that? You're talking about the dailies?

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1:40:03

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