0:02

This is the Jobber Job Podcast Network.

0:16

Hey everybody, it's Ray Harkins and you're listening to

0:18

one words or less the podcast. Sorry

0:20

for being a day light, but you know, life gets in the way,

0:22

and um, this is free, so you should be complaining.

0:25

That's a that's a good way to start, right But

0:28

anyways, thank you for downloading and listening

0:30

and continually supporting the show. It's uh, it's

0:32

wild because we're approaching five years on this

0:35

show, and uh, there's no

0:37

well I would be doing this if like four p Well

0:39

no, I was about to say I'd be doing this before people were

0:42

listening. But just because so many of

0:44

you find value out of this and I find value

0:46

out of this, it's just like man, just the

0:48

perpetual motion machine keeps

0:50

ongoing, and I keep releasing episodes with

0:53

interesting discussions with people who are involved

0:55

in independent music, and uh, that is

0:58

no different than what we're doing here this week. How about

1:00

one week I just like talked to a random person, not

1:02

even about music. I

1:04

guess maybe I have No I was about to say, maybe I've done

1:06

that in the past, but now I haven't. So the guest this

1:09

week is Porsche Sabin and

1:11

this is the conclusion of

1:13

my U you know, awesome women

1:15

in independent music UH. This month,

1:17

I've been focusing in on women

1:19

who have made a real, true and awesome

1:21

difference within our beautiful music scene.

1:24

And Porscha is definitely, UH

1:26

a person who made a major impact

1:28

because yeah, she runs the label

1:30

Kill rock Stars and Kill rock Stars.

1:33

For those are that are not in the know, it's

1:35

like Bratt Mobile Bikini Kill basically

1:37

a legendary indie rock label that

1:40

you know, really really fostered the scene in the Pacific

1:43

Northwest and frankly around the country. And

1:45

I was very excited to have her. She does an amazing

1:47

podcast called the Future of What and

1:49

it's part of the jabber Jaw network of

1:52

shows, so you should be checking that out.

1:54

But more and her in in a few moments. Let's

1:56

get some, you know, top of the show business

1:59

pleasantries out of the way. But these are all things

2:01

that I am very excited to tell you about,

2:03

because um yeah, these are just I

2:05

find this space really fun to tell

2:08

you about cool stuff. So can I do that? All

2:10

right, let's let's do that. So first, all

2:13

is the lower case noises like the music

2:15

that is the intro the music

2:17

Bed the outro music Bed. He's

2:19

releasing a new record. It's called The Swiss

2:21

Illness. Go pri order it now lower case noises

2:24

dot com. You will enjoy it greatly

2:26

for those of you that are looking for some nice, chill,

2:29

contemplative and that's not a word

2:31

complative, I don't know whatever quiet

2:34

music that is really just it's it's breathtaking.

2:36

That's the best way of putting it. So go check that out

2:39

because I love what he does and I'm excited

2:41

to be a small part of it. And

2:43

then this is something that's very

2:45

exciting for me. The

2:48

uh so, everyone light here likes music,

2:50

right like you? Right there? You like music? Yes,

2:52

obviously that's why you're listening to this show. But

2:55

there is an amazing, amazing

2:57

app called Symbol FM. I've

3:00

messing around with this for quite some time and

3:02

basically, I just I wrote wrote

3:04

the founder or one of the one

3:06

of the dudes who was at the ground floor in this and I was

3:08

like, man, I love this thing, and him and I started

3:11

trading emails and he's gonna be a future guest

3:13

on the show, and uh I just I want to

3:15

shower it with some love. So symbol

3:18

dot fm Basically, it's the easiest

3:20

way for you to recommend music

3:22

on a variety of social networks, including

3:25

symbols own feed that they have

3:27

they have such cool stuff and you

3:29

should follow me on there. I am at

3:32

X purpose X P U R P

3:34

O s E. That's the word

3:36

purpose surrounded by X is. Every

3:38

time I have to say that for

3:41

a variety of reasons, I'm not going to disclose.

3:44

People are always like, what does that mean? But anyways,

3:46

I'm not going to reveal that here. But symbol

3:48

fm is a great service. I highly

3:51

encourage you to join,

3:53

to sample it out, to try it, and basically

3:56

it's it's just like I said, the easiest

3:58

way to recommend music, to

4:00

listen to stuff from friends and it just

4:03

become more educated. It's an awesome service.

4:05

So follow me. You'll be able to see some

4:07

some posts have done some music I've enjoyed recently,

4:09

and I think it would be a great dialogue for listeners

4:11

of the show to interact that way.

4:13

So please sign up for that service and check it out. And

4:16

I'm also very very excited to tell you about

4:18

this thing too. I know everything, I'm like excited,

4:20

but it's true. I am so there

4:22

is an incredible band called Rise Against, which

4:25

you are probably familiar with, but

4:27

they are releasing a new record called Wolves,

4:30

and you can go pre order right now rise

4:33

Against shop dot com. And I mean Rise

4:35

Against is just they're unbelievable.

4:37

Like I've watched them from

4:39

being like, you know, a a

4:42

cool punk band from Chicago to I

4:44

mean they're a mainstream, major rock

4:46

act. And the

4:49

energy that they have put out ever

4:51

since I saw them the first time at Chain Reaction here

4:53

in southern California to the last

4:55

couple of times I've seen them, it's just

4:57

it's it's unbelievable. And the

5:00

fact that the band stands for something, the fact

5:02

that the band is politically engaged and are

5:04

basically the same human beings as

5:06

when they started this thing. These

5:09

guys deserve your unending and unrelenting

5:11

support. So their new record comes out on

5:14

June nine, and they're doing a little

5:16

tour this summer with you know, def Tones and

5:18

Thrice Like no big deal, it's a huge

5:20

tour. So please go to Rise Against

5:22

shop dot com. Their new record is called

5:24

Wolves. I've listened to the first single. It's awesome.

5:27

It's available on any streaming platform, so go

5:29

check it out because Rise Against deserves your support

5:31

and the record. I've I'm waiting

5:34

with bated breath to hear the whole thing. But if if

5:36

it's as good as the single Holy Mole, You're in

5:38

for a treat. So Rise Against shop dot com

5:40

and prior to the record. So yes,

5:43

now, Porsche, like I said, she

5:45

uh is the owner, proprietor

5:48

president whatever you want to call her of Kill

5:50

rock Stars, and uh, this

5:53

was such a fun conversation. I actually I

5:55

got cut off at the end, which I'll leave that in so you

5:57

can hear what happened, because basically she

5:59

had to do a meeting with the other staff

6:02

of Kill rock Stars, and frankly,

6:04

I wasn't aware about that, so that's my bad. And so

6:06

we had to cut this off a little bit pre emptively

6:08

because I didn't get to dig into a few questions that

6:10

I wanted to ask. But nonetheless, it is

6:13

still a good conversation. So here it

6:15

is for your enjoyments, and I will talk to you after

6:17

THESS. I was over sum

6:32

my first entry point. Like, I'm thirty six years old, so

6:34

I was definitely have a generation where um,

6:36

you know, like hundred twenty minutes on MTV was like

6:39

my life's blood in regards to getting

6:42

exposed to independent music. And I remember

6:45

this. I want to say, the BC Boys were on

6:47

there, and whether it was

6:49

the them mentioning the record

6:52

label or it basically Kill

6:54

rock Stars got mentioned and it was one of those

6:56

things where you know, in my young whatever

6:58

eleven or twelve year old brain, someone says,

7:00

like a record label called Kill rock Stars. I'm like,

7:02

holy sh it, that sounds so tough, Like that's

7:05

amazing. Um,

7:07

do you like, do you find that that uh,

7:09

you know that that the moniker of the label still

7:12

evokes a reaction from people

7:14

in regards to that saying. I mean, you know, it lessens

7:16

over time, but do you still find people

7:18

kind of bringing up either those anecdotal stories

7:20

of first hearing about the name of the label and

7:23

then finding out more about it, or is it one of

7:25

those things that you just frankly don't

7:27

ever think about that anymore because

7:29

you've been involved for so long. Well, the

7:31

funny part is, um, you know

7:33

how it plays out in different

7:35

ways in your life. Um, and

7:38

I felt the same way. The first time I heard kil rock

7:40

Stars, I was like, oh my god, that's the coolest name. I

7:42

got to check this out. But now that

7:44

I'm old and have a kid in school and stuff,

7:46

I find that it's like more like I have to give

7:48

like um administrators my email

7:51

and I'm like, okay, that's pusha at kill K

7:54

I L L. And then I'm like, oh, man, just

7:57

like that, it's like this

7:59

bummer and like I'm

8:02

like, oh, everyone thinks I'm like, you know, this complete

8:05

weirdo. Like everyone in my child of life is

8:07

like what does your mother defer a living? How

8:10

strange? But that's cool. You know he'll grow up

8:12

well adjusted, he'll have heard it all by the

8:14

time he gets into high school. That

8:19

is very funny when you because

8:22

you know clearly when the label was set

8:24

up, and you know clearly you were not at

8:26

the complete ground floor of naming the label.

8:29

But you know that's a that's a byproduct

8:31

happens many years later where it's like, oh yeah,

8:34

like I wonder how I wonder how other adults

8:36

will will interact with this name that is

8:38

like pretty pretty provocative for most

8:40

people. Totally, and I mean I still

8:43

completely. I mean I didn't have anything to do with naming

8:45

the label. UM My husband started

8:47

the label, and they actually couldn't

8:50

figure out a name. He and the people

8:52

who were who were involved in the label

8:54

in the early days, they couldn't figure out

8:56

a name, and they were having a just so

8:59

how it is it's like, I mean your band, and just was like

9:01

endless conversations and they're un around and

9:03

round and everybody had their factions. And

9:05

at the time, my husband used to do this

9:08

art where he would like go to the Goodwill

9:10

and buy paintings for like a nickel or

9:13

you know, like big canvases on um

9:16

with frames, and he would

9:18

like spray paint or um

9:22

or stencil words over

9:24

whatever the painting was. And

9:26

he had just painted the words

9:29

kill rock Stars on this painting

9:32

and that was in the office, and so

9:35

everyone was just like, well, what about just calling it kill

9:37

rock Stars? And everyone was like, okay,

9:39

fine. It was like the only name that they

9:41

could agree. It's

9:45

so funny because almost every naming

9:48

of a band that you know, basically

9:50

from nineteen seven on

9:53

has been some iteration of that where it's just like, I

9:55

don't know, let's call it the desk lamp, all

9:57

right, whatever. We

10:00

used to joke about that all the time when I was in high

10:02

school. I used to like make up band names like chocolate

10:04

fork, you know, just totally

10:06

stupid, like to two words that have nothing

10:09

to do with each other just make that,

10:11

which is really funny because I feel like, you know, rock has

10:13

gone through so many iterations now because you know,

10:15

you just keep living, you get older and older, and like

10:18

all this stuff happens and you're just like, whoa man, this is

10:20

still happening, and and it's like, remember

10:22

everybody went through like there was this phase

10:25

in the early nineties where you would literally

10:27

rather be dead than name

10:29

your band your own personal name, like

10:33

right, like that was the kiss of death. Even it was just

10:35

one guy it had to be or a woman,

10:38

it had to be a band name, like you had

10:40

to have some sort of moniker. And

10:43

then after a while, like that completely

10:45

switched, and then you know, we have all these bands

10:47

that are just the person's name or you

10:49

know, and then you couldn't tell anymore because

10:51

I think people used to think, well, if your name is

10:53

just one name, then you're like Paul Simon, You're

10:55

like some kind of folk guitarist, right, You're

10:58

going to be like the singer songwriter with a good are.

11:00

And then it just kind of switched. And now you

11:03

know that's not necessarily true either. Um,

11:06

but I got really disillusioned with band names

11:08

in the last like I don't know, ten

11:10

years, I'm like, where's the creativity, where's the interesting,

11:13

where's the interest factor? People were just so

11:16

you know, they were naming their their bands these things

11:18

that were so basic that they were totally unnoogle

11:21

able. We used to joke in the office

11:23

all the time that the absolute like the

11:25

next band that came along was going to be called cat

11:27

Video because there would be absolutely

11:30

no way to google that at all, Like

11:32

you would just never find it on a search engine,

11:34

never totally. I

11:36

think a lot of that, you know, stemmed

11:38

from the fact that the bands that were

11:41

naming themselves that were intentionally

11:43

doing so to be like, well, fuck you

11:45

Internet, like you know, we're totally indie

11:48

cool cred band that there's no way you can

11:50

find us, you know, right right. But

11:52

for it was funny because running a label, we were just like,

11:54

for God's sake, people like we had

11:56

a band out of Florida called

11:59

gospel music. Just those two words, gospel

12:01

music. Try googling gospel

12:03

music Florida, right, not not

12:05

get about it or gospel music band forget.

12:08

I mean, you know, it was impossible. It was literally

12:10

impossible to find that band at all. Right,

12:13

It's like you got you especially,

12:16

you know, with the business

12:18

mind that you have to sometimes approach these things

12:20

with where it's like, hey, band, like your

12:23

music is unbelievable, but like no

12:25

one is going to be able to discover this thing, like we're

12:27

right, you're you're stacking a lot of cards against yourself

12:30

exactly exactly. And I think that's and

12:32

then that sort of bread the next phase, which

12:35

was the mg M T phase,

12:37

like where everybody had like an acronym

12:40

um and I think that that was better because

12:42

at least you could kind of find those

12:46

I was surprised that the I

12:48

mean, I guess along those same lines, the you

12:50

know, every web two point out company that

12:53

just removed vowels, and

12:56

you know, bands were just just constant or not bands,

12:58

but you know, websites or whatever service that people

13:00

were getting out there was just consonant

13:03

um. You know, it didn't I expected

13:05

more of that to happen within the context of music

13:07

and bands, that it would just be this you

13:09

know, huge crop and granted there

13:11

were a lot, but not to the extent of where I

13:13

felt like it dominated the conversation for like years

13:17

it didn't, but it's coming back. Have you noticed

13:19

that just in the last couple of years, there's more Just

13:21

like even in the last six months, I've noticed Martin.

13:23

I was like, whoa, you guys, It's like, wasn't that not cool?

13:26

Like a year and a half ago? Totally what

13:28

are you doing? So confused?

13:30

You're you're you're ripping off. You

13:32

know the latest app that is launching now You're like,

13:34

is that an apper band? Yeah? Totally

13:38

apper band? Right? That should be like a game

13:40

show apper band, right, and so

13:42

many people would fail. Uh.

13:45

So, like focusing on you yourself, you

13:47

were Were you born and raised on the East Coast? I'm

13:49

kind of guessing with your the schooling that you went

13:52

to. Yeah, I I was. I

13:54

was born on tour because my dad is an actor

13:57

of stage actor. So I was born in a

13:59

touring comp any of promises, promises, um,

14:02

and then we ended up you know, we sort of moved around

14:05

a ton when I was a kid, and then uh, we fetched

14:07

up in New York City when I was five, So I really

14:09

grew up in New York City. Manhattan, got

14:11

it? Yeah, so what what what town?

14:14

Were you actually born in

14:16

Chicago, Illinois? Actually, yeah,

14:18

but we were only there for like a month, so I

14:20

don't think it's a it's not particularly

14:22

you know, I don't feel like warm and fuzzy towards Chicago

14:25

or anything. Right, Right, that's

14:27

really interesting. So you you basically

14:30

when you were your father,

14:32

I presume your mother was with you as well. Yes,

14:35

my mom was traveling with us. Yes, yes,

14:37

yes, tough to have a baby in a hospital

14:40

without somebody there to do that. Yes,

14:42

that's true. Uh, so I

14:45

presume the tour would be uh, you

14:47

know, you guys would post up in a particular

14:49

city for you know, whatever month, month and a half,

14:51

as long as the show ran and then beyond the next

14:53

one. Yeah, that is what

14:55

they tell me. That how I used to work

14:57

back in the day, Right, and you were

15:01

And did you see the movie? Uh? This is I don't

15:03

know what this randomly just came into my head, but a movie

15:05

called Captain Fantastic with Vigo

15:08

Mortensen. No, I

15:10

did not, it came whatever, it came out last year.

15:12

But not not like I'm equating your

15:15

childhood with the premise that I'm going to tell

15:17

you about this movie. But this is basically

15:19

this, uh this this guy lives out in the woods with

15:22

five of his kids and he you know, raises

15:25

them being very sheltered from the outside world,

15:27

but you know, being completely educated on

15:29

you know, matters of like you know, I'm Chomsky

15:32

and how the government really works

15:34

and all this other stuff. But um, the only reason

15:36

that just it it kind of sparked that that memory

15:38

was the fact that I'm guessing

15:40

the unconventional nous of traveling

15:43

around from city to city. I

15:45

guess when you were five is when you started to enter school.

15:48

But you know, do you reflect on that time at

15:50

all, being like, oh, yeah, like I have these

15:52

like pockets of memories that uh, you

15:54

know might not be typical from what other

15:56

people have experienced. Yeah, that's

15:58

a good question. I don't actually now because I

16:00

don't really have a lot of memories before um,

16:04

before I was five living in New York.

16:06

I mean, I remember the apartment I grew up in obviously

16:09

really well, Um, I know

16:11

that when we were because when I was four, my

16:13

dad was on a

16:15

TV show called When Things Were Rotten,

16:17

which was a mel Brooks sitcom

16:19

about um Robin hood

16:22

and that was

16:24

so we lived in l A for like a year when

16:27

I was like probably from you know, four to five,

16:29

and I remember going to preschool there. Um,

16:33

but that's like my earliest memory, and I barely

16:35

remember that. Yeah,

16:37

that's interesting. Did your mom work

16:40

or basically she just you know, was

16:42

busy taking care of you as your father was on the actor

16:44

grind? Yeah,

16:47

she You know, my mother is a weirdo.

16:49

She doesn't talk about that time

16:51

a whole lot. Um. I know that

16:53

she got a job when we moved to New York, because

16:56

she always worked when I was growing up. But

16:58

I think maybe when I was a little like

17:00

that, she was mostly a stay at home

17:02

mom. Um. I don't think she liked

17:05

it, so I didn't hear a lot about it.

17:08

But now that's a that is a very good

17:10

point because you I mean, especially

17:12

of certain generations in which

17:14

you know, the notion of the father

17:17

bringing the breadwinner and the woman

17:19

needs to you know, stay at home and you know whatever,

17:21

cook and take care of the kids. That

17:24

you know, that didn't that jelled with some women

17:26

as far as their lifestyle was concerned. And what there maybe

17:28

your own personal desires were. But then you know, probably

17:31

your mother. There was a there's

17:34

a large contingent of women who were like, yeah, I've

17:36

got like more to say than just like

17:38

this particular slot that I put in totally.

17:41

And it's also funny an acting family,

17:43

you know. I mean my father when he was working,

17:45

and he was working all the time

17:47

when I was little. You know, if he was in

17:50

a show, for example, he worked at night

17:52

and so he was around during the day. He was

17:55

it wasn't like he was out of the house. And

17:57

my I have a very good memory from

18:00

um so I

18:02

would have been nine and my

18:05

my dad was in a Broadway show. He was in Othello

18:07

on Broadway with James Earl Jones as Othello,

18:10

and he would, you

18:13

know, I'd be home when he got when I got he would

18:15

be home when I got home from school. We would

18:17

like, you know, do my homework,

18:20

watch TV, you know, eat dinner together,

18:23

hang out, and then he would at some point

18:26

leave, go get on the subway, go downtown,

18:28

do the first act of the show, and then

18:30

jump on the subway at intermission and come home

18:33

to chuck me in. And it would be like, you know, nine

18:36

o'clock and he would just chuck me on

18:38

a second night and that would be it, and that was like our

18:40

life and that was good, Like that

18:42

was easy, you know, because he was always around

18:44

and it was just like, yeah, he has an hour and a half of work

18:47

at night, right, it's

18:50

kind of like perfect. Yeah, no, that's

18:52

really cool because you

18:54

know, I get so uh. I

18:56

mean, I'm I'm thirty six and I have like a five

18:58

year old and you know, I'm the luxury

19:00

of you know, working from home and like dropping my kid off

19:02

at school in the morning and stuff like that. But you know,

19:04

I see it's still where

19:07

the you know, father figure plays

19:09

a you know, an important role in in many

19:12

children's lives. But then there's there is,

19:14

like you said, that absence of time

19:16

that may happen where it's just like oh yeah, like

19:18

you know, dad gets home from like seven o'clock and

19:21

maybe get Caesar kid for like an hour during the

19:23

weekdays. But that's amazing that you had the complete

19:25

opposite experience, I know, and

19:27

I think it's really similar. You know, nowadays,

19:29

I think everybody has that trouble. I mean,

19:32

you have to have a lot of money to or have

19:34

a specific lifestyle to have that luxury

19:36

of staying at home. Because I think a lot of people really

19:39

struggle to find time to spend with their kids,

19:41

um, because they're mostly both working,

19:43

so somebody has to juggle, you know, or

19:46

they both have to juggle to try to, you know, get

19:48

bits and pieces of time with their kids. Um.

19:51

We sort of have the opposite situation right now. I've sort

19:53

of turned into like, um, the dad,

19:55

you know, the traditional fifties dad, because

19:57

I go to work every day in an office, right

20:00

and I come home late at my husband's le stay at

20:02

home person, and you know, and

20:04

I really think it's funny. I think it's translated a lot

20:06

to our kid because I feel like, you know, it's like,

20:08

if he has an emotional issue, he likes

20:11

to go talk to my husband about it.

20:14

I think he feels like Daddy's that, you know. He's

20:16

like the soft one. And I'm like the

20:19

why why haven't you brushed your teeth yet? Right kind

20:21

of one? Yeah, you cover the door, Like why

20:23

this sounds some best come on guys, sounds God

20:26

damn it exactly. That's a did

20:29

you have brothers and sisters? Nope?

20:31

Just me, nice only child life.

20:33

I love it. Yeah, everyone thinks

20:35

everyone who has siblings thinks that's really romantic

20:38

and fabulous to be an only child. But I'm like, but

20:40

you have to deal with those crazy people who are

20:42

your parents with no buffer, like

20:44

there's nobody to help you out. It's

20:47

just you. It's true. Yeah, I mean I'm only

20:49

child as well, but I mean I love the experience.

20:51

But there's definitely, uh,

20:54

if I had different parents, I definitely

20:57

could easily see what you're talking about,

20:59

and the fact that you could, you know, divide

21:02

the attention amongst your siblings and be like, Okay,

21:04

I don't feel the full force of whatever

21:06

it is that my parents are going through or

21:09

whatever, that you have other people to spread

21:11

it across to totally. And I don't

21:13

want to imply that I had, like, you know, bad

21:15

parents, or that they were mean or anything. They totally

21:17

weren't. I mean, and when I was a little kid especially, they

21:20

were you know, they were really good parents. But it's

21:22

just that, you know, it's a very intense relationship,

21:24

and I think people who have siblings

21:26

don't necessarily feel that intensity

21:28

because I think they feel like they can spread it

21:30

out a little bit, like maybe they have a specific relationship

21:33

with their mom or whatever, but they know that their mom

21:35

has other kids, so it's like I

21:37

don't have to take the brunt of every single

21:39

second of her emotional whatever.

21:42

Let's say, um, and maybe

21:44

that's you know, maybe that's also different for just

21:47

different kids and families. You know, maybe one kid

21:49

is the confident or whatever. I'm

21:51

sure it's different for everyone. I won't generalize part

21:54

of the interruption, but I need to tell you about our good friends

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22:20

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22:22

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22:25

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22:27

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22:29

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22:32

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22:34

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22:37

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22:39

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22:42

You have people like Henry Rawlins and Alan

22:44

Alda doing voices for this particular

22:46

book. And I know you may have seen the movie. The

22:49

movie is nothing in comparison to the audio book

22:51

and you can get that at Audible and

22:53

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22:56

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22:59

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23:01

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23:03

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23:05

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23:09

than using Audible, So please

23:11

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words to start now. You can't make more

23:15

time, but you can make the most

23:17

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23:19

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23:22

Or maybe you don't want to do that, but still enjoy

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audible and visit audible dot com

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slash one words to start now. Now.

23:29

Audiit the show sounding like you're

23:32

your upbringing. In regards to the

23:34

you know profession that your father had, I'm

23:37

guessing that you were able to kind

23:39

of explore the idea of unconventional

23:42

you know, career paths and that sort of stuff. Um

23:45

Am, I correct in that assumption. Or is that one of those things

23:47

where, uh, your parents were like, well,

23:50

you know that Dad's job is cool, but like it

23:52

takes a lot of hard work and I don't have a lot of heartbreak

23:54

and all that sort of stuff, um or or

23:57

was that not the case for you? Yeah,

23:59

my dad was too for clear that I was never going to

24:01

be an actor, Like he just

24:03

made that totally clear from

24:06

when I was quite young, because I actually did some commercial

24:08

acting when I was little, a little like five

24:10

six, um. Because

24:13

he just put his fit down. He was like, Nope, you're not doing

24:15

this. It's just too hard of a life, and

24:17

especially for women. He really felt

24:19

like, you know, we live

24:21

in a sexist culture, and that

24:24

sexism is a lot um worse

24:27

when you're put into a situation where you

24:30

know your looks are going to be judged first of

24:32

all things, you know, regardless of your

24:34

talent. And I you know, I

24:37

am actually I was sad

24:39

at the time, you know, when I was eleven, I was

24:41

like, but Dad, I want to be on

24:43

this stage. And and

24:47

now I'm like super grateful to him, like

24:49

thank you for not making me go through that.

24:51

You know, that's I think that would

24:54

be hard, you know, especially for kids. I

24:56

mean, I think when you come to acting as an adult, it's

24:58

different because you've had an up ttunity to form

25:01

your personality and have

25:03

some you know, significant life occurrences

25:07

so that you're like more of a real person. I mean, I have a

25:09

like one of my best friends from childhood. He's

25:12

now starring in a sitcom

25:14

on TV, but he

25:17

had been in Hollywood for like twelve years before

25:19

he got that show, and he's done.

25:22

I mean, he's done a zillion, zillions, zillion

25:24

things. But he didn't even start acting, um

25:27

until he was thirty. So it's like he

25:30

already had a whole life, a whole personality,

25:32

a whole you know, everything was all developed.

25:34

So it's like, you know, getting the rejection

25:37

of acting, the constant rejection

25:39

of your not good enough, you're not funny enough,

25:42

if you're not tall enough, you're not short enough, you're

25:44

whatever, you're not pretty enough.

25:46

Um, it was easier for him to take because

25:48

he was already he already had, you know, a

25:51

significant amount of life. I

25:53

think when people, you know, so I am grateful

25:55

to my dad because I think if I'd started acting in eleven

25:57

in a very serious capacity that could have just made

26:00

me into a crazy person. Well,

26:02

I mean you see it all the time with child actors. Very

26:04

few of them come out unscathed

26:07

from that experience. Exactly.

26:09

It sounds and I feel the same way now. I'm just like,

26:11

are you kidding? I mean, I had a friend say

26:13

to me not that long ago, She's like, my son is

26:15

so adorable? Do you think I should start putting him

26:18

in commercials? And I was just like it was

26:20

like she had said, like, do you think it would be fun

26:22

for me to sell him to the circus? Right? Like,

26:24

uh no, no, no, not at the hole,

26:27

not at all. I really don't think so, Like

26:29

it doesn't matter that he's cute, you know that is

26:31

like keep him cute, you know, keep him, keep

26:34

him fine, keep him safe, totally,

26:36

keep him yours. Yeah, keep him mirrors,

26:38

Like, do not do that, do not put him out there. In

26:40

fact, I have a horror story which is I will

26:42

not name names, but um, when my dad

26:44

when I was fifteen, fifteen,

26:47

sixteen, I can't remember how old I was. My

26:49

dad was living in l A And he was doing

26:52

a lot of guests spots on various TV

26:54

shows that were big in the eighties, like

26:56

Murphy Brown and saying elsewhere. And

27:00

I was out there and I ended

27:02

up on the Paramount lot one day. I think

27:04

my I think my step mom worked

27:06

there, and that's why I was there. And I was

27:08

watching this show get taped and the

27:11

star of the show I was seventeen,

27:13

because this guy was seventeen. There was a seventeen

27:15

year old on that show that I had known, like

27:18

very very slightly back in New York and

27:21

long story short, sitting in the stands

27:24

like watching this the rehearsal

27:26

for this TV show, I found out that this seventeen

27:29

year old boy was in a sexual

27:31

relationship with his thirty five year old manager

27:34

female and that basically

27:37

she he had gone to Hollywood with her when he was fourteen,

27:40

and his parents had just been like, by, we

27:42

hope you become a big star. Oh

27:44

my god, that that that is legitimately

27:46

selling your child out right, that's

27:49

no bones about that. Oh my god. Right, I

27:52

was so and I was a seventeen

27:54

years old, and I'm just like, get

27:57

me away from this. What totally

28:00

I'm like, what kind of a I mean, if she was

28:02

like thirty to when he

28:04

was four and I was like, yeah,

28:07

that is foul, Man's not.

28:09

I mean, that is terrify. I mean, especially if

28:11

it's setting off, you know, alarms

28:13

in your seventeen year old brain, like you know, usually

28:16

our seventeen year old brains aren't capable

28:18

of, right much are

28:21

capable of being like oh wait, that seems unsafe

28:24

and yeah right, and you're like, wait a minute, that

28:26

sounds horrible. Yeah, oh my god.

28:28

I was so freaked out. I was so

28:30

freaked out. I couldn't even believe it because

28:32

I just was like even then, I was like,

28:35

who, I mean, look at fourteen year old boys, Like,

28:37

who wants to touch a fourteen year old boys? Their

28:40

babies? I mean, besides the fact that they're you know

28:44

whatever, they're they're children, they're

28:46

small children, Like you don't do that with small

28:48

children. That is so wrong. No, not at

28:51

all. So yeah, wow,

28:53

that's that. That is definitely a very horrific

28:55

experience. I'm glad. I'm glad you didn't go down that road.

28:58

Yeah no, me, you me

29:00

too. Definitely. Um. And so

29:02

then as you started to you know, develop your identity

29:05

and understand you know, I mean that

29:07

acting was not going to be part of your

29:09

plan. Um, I'm guessing that

29:11

music came pretty quickly into

29:14

your life, like it was that like junior high, high school.

29:17

Yeah, I was a real early music adopter.

29:19

I bought my first album when I was ten, um,

29:22

and it was Jake Giles Band. It's

29:25

very good. Yes,

29:27

I don't know what, yeah whatever, I like

29:29

rock, what can I say? Um? And

29:32

and yeah, I got really into it super fast.

29:35

Uh, and it became very important to

29:37

me really fast. Um,

29:39

you know, sort of all my friendships. I was just totally

29:42

one of those kids who like, would only hang out with the kids

29:44

who listened to specific music, like

29:46

if you've never heard of the Smiths, I wanted nothing to do with

29:48

you, you know, and high school is a good

29:50

time to do that, because you know, everyone's in little

29:53

factions anyway, based on sports

29:55

or whatever. So I just,

29:58

yeah, I was just in this little music

30:00

world. I tried to pick up the Electric Basse, but

30:02

um, I couldn't find anyone to play it with me, so I

30:05

didn't. I didn't like. I had it at

30:07

home, and I would like play it a little bit, you know, i'd practice

30:09

a little bit, but I'm not much of a practice er.

30:12

That's not my forte So

30:14

I didn't really you didn't pursue that, right,

30:17

And so I'm guessing that you started

30:19

to like go to shows,

30:21

and then independent music started to kind of creep

30:24

into your ecosystem once you

30:26

started to realize that there were such a thing as like local

30:28

bands and stuff like that. Oh yeah,

30:30

exactly. And that was you know, CB GBS

30:32

and Rest in Peace. I

30:35

used to have this Sunday afternoon matinee

30:37

show for kids. It was all ages, and so

30:40

that was really fun to go there. And um, you

30:43

know because then I that's when I actually started to see

30:45

bands with people in them that I knew,

30:47

you know, friends like other kids could

30:50

play on stage. And I was

30:52

like, oh my god, look at that. You know, if there's this

30:55

band of friends from um,

30:57

you know, the music and art school, and you

30:59

know, I had some friends who played

31:02

in a man that was largely

31:04

a police cover band, but um,

31:06

you know they had some raginals, sure,

31:09

but it's just really amazing. I was like, Oh my god, that is

31:12

that is like what I want to do. That's what I what

31:14

I want to be around all the time. And

31:17

so the you know, just

31:19

because I presume at that time too, there

31:22

was you know, there's Something I find so

31:25

interesting is when you know, you start to get

31:27

into independent culture and there

31:29

aren't You realize that there's different

31:31

genres of music, and you realize like, what isn't

31:34

your thing? Where it's like, okay, I'm not like, you know, a

31:36

death metal person, but I am like a

31:38

metal person. Like you know, you start to draw these distinct

31:40

lines. But when you're searching

31:43

out for independent culture, you at

31:45

a certain age you sometimes just don't care. You're just like

31:47

whatever, you're in the weird black

31:49

clothing stuff, so like I'm in a weird black clothing

31:52

stuff as well, So like, I guess we'll go to shows together.

31:54

Did you find a lot of that as well? Where it's like, Okay, we

31:57

don't have the distinct same music taste,

31:59

but we do you know there is some cross

32:01

over there? Yeah? I think so. And I

32:03

think also when you're young like that, you're

32:05

you're more accepting. I mean, you

32:08

get you get the idea of boundaries because there's

32:10

an us into them, right, Like you know that you want

32:12

to be on this team, like the music

32:15

team. But I never I didn't know. I

32:17

think then I didn't have as strong as sense

32:19

as I did. Like maybe when I was in college about oh,

32:22

this music is you know, really good music, and this other

32:24

music is crap. Like I would I would be way

32:26

more interested in just going to a show just

32:29

for the heck of going to the show, rather than you

32:31

know, saying, oh, I couldn't possibly go to that show because it's

32:34

some genre that I'm not interested in. So I ended

32:36

up you know, seeing like a lot of kids

32:38

do, I think, a lot of stuff that I'm

32:41

so glad I saw. Um, you

32:44

know, there were the first time I saw the Ramons,

32:46

I saw that. I mean I got to see the Ramons, which is amazing,

32:49

right, you know, when I was sixteen or

32:51

something at the Old Ritz and

32:53

I saw a shriek Back and p

32:56

I l and you know, just these

32:58

great bands that were playing at this relatively small

33:00

club, the Rips in New York. Um,

33:04

that was just a really really good time for music.

33:06

You know. Two, I got lucky that I came of age

33:09

right then because there's a lot of cool stuff going on, and

33:11

there was a little bit more latitude in

33:14

pop culture. You know, it wasn't quite

33:16

as regimented. I feel like, you know, the

33:19

whole thing with MTV really

33:21

changed the culture for a few years there

33:24

because it led us. Uh

33:26

you know, I always say was

33:29

an amazing year because you could put the radio

33:31

on and you would hear um, you

33:33

know, Brian Adams and then Duran

33:36

Duran and then Shaka Khan and

33:38

then the Stray Cats, and

33:40

it's like, when would those four genres

33:43

ever appear on the radio together? Nowadays,

33:45

like on Top forty, it doesn't happen because

33:48

everything is much more cut off, you

33:50

know, much more constrained in terms

33:52

of what things have to sound like. So

33:55

yeah, that was a great It was a great time to go

33:57

out and see bands and come of age. I

34:00

also love the naivete

34:02

of you know what I like to call kid

34:05

logic where you start

34:07

to you know, you're getting into things

34:09

kind of devoid of context. You know, it's like you're not paying

34:12

attention to music as

34:14

much as to say that you

34:16

just like it, you know, like you're not like, oh well,

34:19

you know, as you get older, you do this where it's like, oh

34:21

yeah that you know that band's part of this scene there, you

34:24

know, sts or whatever. You know, like all these

34:26

things that kind of come in with um, you know,

34:28

adult knowledge. But you know, when

34:30

you're you're younger whatever. Between the ages of like you know,

34:32

twelve and you know, fifteen sixteen, you're

34:35

kind of just consuming music. Uh, you

34:37

know, like you said, under the umbrella of this thing the

34:39

US versus them. But you're,

34:42

like you said, you're given more latitude to like things

34:44

that you know might not be uh cool

34:47

to like when you're nine, two years old or whatever exactly.

34:50

And that's you know, that was so great because I got to see

34:52

so many I mean I got to see you

34:54

know, I saw the Poges, I saw which

34:57

you know, I feel like the Popes had like one second

35:00

in popular culture that that

35:03

was allowed, you know, like super

35:05

drunk Irish band like okay, it's

35:08

Irish punk band like okay, that that

35:10

happened for a second, you know. Um,

35:13

but they were on the same stage with the violent Thems,

35:15

and you know, just it was

35:18

it was a time of interesting mixes

35:21

definitely, um, you

35:24

know, and kind of jumping

35:26

around here. But the you are, you

35:28

personally are extremely over educated

35:31

to be working in the music industry. I'm not sure. I'm sure

35:33

I'm not the first person to mention that. Um, but

35:36

because you know, it's true, because

35:39

you know, usually most people that you know, because

35:41

I mean I worked at a record label for you know, ten plus

35:43

years. I mean I have a college degree, but you know, you far

35:46

outshine me in regards to your your your paperwork,

35:48

accolades, um and probably frankly

35:51

smartness as well. But the um

35:54

so the draw for you to kind

35:56

of work alongside and you know, like

35:58

management and obviously working at the label. Now, um,

36:02

you know, how where did that poll kind of start

36:04

to come into play? Because I'm sure there was a different path

36:06

in regards to you know, your schooling and everything

36:08

that you were doing from that perspective. Well,

36:11

I think that there I had a lot

36:13

of Um, I wouldn't

36:15

say, you know,

36:17

it's weird. It's yeah,

36:20

I don't know exactly how to say this. It's not that my

36:22

parents pressured me to to excel

36:25

in school. It's that they put me in a situation

36:27

where I didn't have a lot of choices. I

36:30

went to uh Junior

36:33

High School, which had a gifted

36:35

program, and I was placed in the gifted

36:37

program. And then one day,

36:40

the you know, second half of eighth

36:42

grade, our teacher walked in the room. She

36:45

wrote stive S and Bronx Science

36:47

and Brooklyn Tech on the board, and

36:49

she said pick these in order, you

36:52

know, pick these three in the order which you

36:54

want to go to them, and you're going to go take this this

36:56

task, this entrance exam to get into one of these schools.

36:59

And so we just did, you know, It's like nobody

37:02

asked us do you want to do this? And

37:04

I picked Steveson because it was in Manhattan,

37:06

Brooklyn Tech and you know, Bronx

37:08

Science. I was like, oh, those aren't different borrows. I don't want to

37:10

go to those places. So I just wrote down Steveson,

37:13

and about three or four weeks later we all trooped

37:15

off and took a test, and

37:18

then they sent me a letter and said you got into

37:21

Steveson. You're going to Steveson in the fall. And

37:24

so it just was this path, you know, It's just like I

37:26

just got stuck on this path and there I was.

37:30

And Steveson is UM is

37:32

a feeder school. It's a specialized math and science

37:34

high school in New York. That UM it's a feeder

37:36

school to the IVS and to a lot of other

37:40

you know, big time in

37:42

other words, when you go there, they there's

37:44

a lot uh expected of you.

37:47

And of course this is all in hindsight, I didn't

37:49

really understand any of this as a kid. I just was

37:51

kind of going along, and you know, my friends got in,

37:53

so I was like, okay, well I'll go together. Like it just seemed

37:56

like what we were going to do. Um.

37:59

But looking back, you know, then I ended up going

38:01

to a four year college, and I'm here to tell you I

38:03

worked harder at Stuyvesant than I ever worked in college

38:07

in terms of the coursework, because

38:09

they basically we're giving a seven college level

38:11

of courses a day, and in college

38:14

you do like four

38:16

college level courses a week, which

38:20

is an incredibly different workload.

38:23

You know, we were just killed at

38:25

Stevens. You know, I have a very negative

38:27

feeling about it. I have friends who don't, you

38:29

know, who feel like they that it wasn't a

38:32

terrible burden on their lives. But I look back

38:34

and I think I would never do that to a kid. I would

38:36

never put my child, I would never insist that my child

38:39

go to a school like that, because it was just too

38:41

much pressure. You know, you have enough problems when

38:43

you're fifteen, sixteen, seventeen. I didn't

38:45

need, you know, getting four

38:47

hours of sleep at night, because I couldn't finish

38:50

my homework. You know, it's so much homework. It took

38:52

hours and hours and hours every night to

38:54

finish my homework. Um, it

38:57

was just too much, you know, when I look back,

38:59

it was too much. And but I was in

39:01

that mindset and I was in that that track

39:04

so and I felt like a failure

39:07

if I didn't do really well. So you

39:09

know when they came when they said where do you want to go

39:11

to college? I just listed

39:14

all the i vs because that's what all

39:16

my friends were doing. And then I got called

39:18

into the guidance counselor's office and she goes, you

39:21

have not got the scores to go to any of these ivys.

39:23

Have you considered this college called Grenelle?

39:26

And I started crying because I thought I was being

39:28

told that I sucked, you know, that I like was

39:30

so academically inferior that I had to be

39:32

sent to like Iowa to go to

39:34

this terrible place. Sure, yeah you

39:36

get yeah, you get sent to the corner school where

39:38

it's just like, yeah, you're gonna sit in the corner and that

39:41

that's all you deserve. Right, So as

39:43

the corn field, like I was like, oh my god, they're sending

39:45

me to the Cornfield Children of the Corns. I

39:48

didn't know what to think of this, so

39:50

I told my parents and they were like, well, listen, um,

39:53

do you want to go visit it? And I was

39:56

like okay. And I actually had a friend who had gone there

39:58

the year before from my school, so I was okay,

40:00

I guess I'm not a total loser or whatever. So

40:02

I flew off and of course had

40:04

the greatest time in my whole life, because you know,

40:07

as a as a senior in high school, going

40:09

to a college for a weekend is

40:11

like, you know, dying and going to heaven.

40:13

I mean it was just the funnest you know, everything,

40:16

and you were free, there were no parents. It

40:18

was amazing. UM So I

40:20

totally signed up and went there. That was great

40:23

and I really loved it. You know, that was a great experience.

40:25

I'm glad I went to Grannell. It's a wonderful college.

40:28

At the time, they still had need blind admissions.

40:31

UM they still have the second largest endowment

40:33

of any private college after Harvard in the US.

40:36

UM they still

40:39

are able to give a huge amount of

40:41

tuition assistance. Something like sevent of

40:43

their students still get tuition assistance, which is really

40:45

great. So for a private liberal arts

40:47

college, and it was very diverse, which was

40:49

nice. You know. There it wasn't just a

40:52

bunch of you know, super overeducated

40:54

white kids in a cornfield.

40:56

It was like a diverse bunch of over educated

40:58

kids in a card to I

41:01

mean that, and that that makes a world of difference.

41:04

It did, it really did, it did, and it was a great

41:06

place. So I went there. And then but you

41:08

see, when I got to college, that's when I really that's

41:10

when I discovered. I mean, I just like, can we

41:12

curse on this podcast? I can't remember? Oh

41:15

yes, I that was like I did

41:17

not have a funk left to give about um

41:19

playing in a band anymore, you know, because I

41:21

was just like, I'm going to play in a band tomorrow

41:24

and I don't care if I suck. And so

41:26

luckily, you know, college was full of really

41:29

nice people who were like, sure, come and be in a band with

41:31

me, even though you completely sucking, can barely play

41:33

your instrument. So I played

41:35

in bands for three years. I played

41:37

bass, and then my senior year I started playing drums,

41:40

which was also amazing because I got in a band like

41:42

the day after I first started playing

41:44

drums, so I took one drum lesson and then got in a band.

41:48

Um. But that was it, Like I

41:50

was just once I actually started playing in a band, I

41:52

was like, I don't want to do anything else. I am you

41:54

know, I'm done, You're messing around? This is

41:56

it? Like this is what I want to do? So

42:00

was that got it the and

42:03

I'm guessing to a lot of the attraction to

42:05

the sort of music that you were going to, you know, of

42:08

the independent variety, did have you

42:10

know, subculture thoughts and uh, you

42:12

know, the non mainstream presentation

42:15

of music that actually has a message beyond

42:17

that. Were you were you kind of immediately

42:19

taken by that? Or was that something that you know, as

42:21

you became you know, more educated about

42:23

the world around you, you realize the importance of that.

42:27

Oh I was, I was immediately taking I mean I remember

42:29

hearing the Pixies, like I

42:31

don't remember my freshman or sophomore year

42:34

at college, I don't remember which one, and I was just like,

42:36

oh, this is it, Like now I know what

42:39

I'm supposed to be listening

42:41

to, Like this is the music

42:43

for me, Like this is exactly

42:46

what I want to listen to and then I just sort

42:48

of I mean, I was lucky because I went to college between

42:50

eighty nine and nine, and that

42:52

was like such an amazing time for independent music,

42:55

I think in America, like it was it

42:58

was. It was that weird

43:00

moment when, um,

43:04

you know, before Nirvana, you

43:07

know, B N we should have this like moment

43:09

in our calendars, R B In before

43:12

Nirvana, there were all these amazing independent artists

43:15

on independent labels that we're

43:17

touring and making a living and really doing

43:20

really prevalent and popular and out there.

43:22

Right you could you could hear them on college radio,

43:24

and college radio was a thing, right, like a

43:27

real thing, like a powerful thing, um.

43:29

And not just college, but like the alternative

43:32

stations, you know, I mean we had an alternative station in New

43:34

York that was amazing and played nothing, but

43:36

you know, R A M and

43:40

you know, et cetera,

43:42

like the bands that I wanted to hear

43:44

that we're on independent labels, which is interesting.

43:47

UM. And then you know, Nirvana

43:50

happened. And then after Nirvana A

43:53

n UM there

43:55

was that moment when the major labels

43:57

just went crazy, thinking

44:00

this is the next thing, and they were just signing

44:02

indie bands left and right. And so there

44:05

was this second when we almost

44:08

won you know what I mean, we

44:11

almost made that move into the mainstream

44:14

and then it didn't happen, but it but

44:17

the but the bands that started getting signed were

44:19

interesting because they were like our bands. Right,

44:21

there were people that we knew, and they were bands that

44:23

we played with, and there were bands that we really

44:25

liked, um and and

44:28

so kind of that

44:30

all you know that that almost killed the

44:32

indie scene in a weird way at the time,

44:35

but it also was an exciting moment because

44:37

it was like the band that you love could be

44:40

the next thing, you know on the radio. I

44:42

mean I remember going

44:44

to a show in the lounge

44:47

of this dorm at Grenelle. And

44:50

when I say lounge, I mean it

44:52

had some chairs in it, and then it had like a

44:54

one ft high step,

44:57

carpeted step, and the bands played on the

44:59

carpeted step like it was not a stage,

45:01

Like this was not a stage, This was not a stage

45:03

situation. And um

45:06

the band that was playing was this band from Minneapolis

45:08

called Soul Asylum and it was this

45:10

amazing, sweaty sold out you know, not

45:13

even sold out, but just like packed up show with you

45:15

know, all these college kids and the

45:18

next thing, you know, they had a song on the radio

45:20

like the next year because they got signed

45:23

to a major UM. So it was that kind of moment

45:25

where it was like it just felt like our bands were

45:27

suddenly coming into the limelight. Yeah.

45:30

Absolutely, and especially too with the the

45:33

train of thought that followed these bands, because

45:35

you know, they didn't they existed in a scene that

45:38

you know, had accountability and had people you

45:40

know, we would always say accountability. I don't mean like people

45:42

watching out to make sure they say the right thing. But you

45:44

know, the independent thought

45:47

was fostered as opposed to so many of these

45:49

bands that were born

45:51

out of nothing beyond just a marketing

45:54

plan and a gimmick or whatever. And

45:56

so it was like, wait a minute, what, like these

45:58

bands have something important to say? Be on you know,

46:00

just just watch us play on stage exactly,

46:03

and you know, this might be a fine time to point

46:05

out that that is what the name kill rock

46:08

stars means. And and that's

46:10

you know, I still stand by that today. I feel it even

46:12

more today. Actually, you know that

46:14

that UM that

46:17

the system that creates rock stars

46:20

is totally bankrupt and a

46:22

big part of the problem in this country. You

46:24

know that that you can take somebody and somebody

46:27

who you know, we

46:29

can't even judge their talent or there whatever,

46:33

let's say, and you put this big team

46:35

around them. You get them a lawyer and

46:37

a manager and you and you um

46:40

hire songwriters for them and producers

46:43

and you do all this stuff and you basically it's like the star

46:45

making system. And what

46:48

comes out the other end. I

46:50

don't know how we handle that, like what,

46:53

because sometimes it works and you made a

46:55

rock star, and sometimes it doesn't,

46:57

and then that person just disappears and we never see them

46:59

again, you know. Either way,

47:01

I think that's a terrible system. So that

47:04

is exactly what that name is about. Yeah,

47:06

absolutely the And

47:09

so then as you started to you

47:11

know, playing bands, well, first of all, I have to identify

47:13

so the first band that

47:15

you played basin, I usually

47:17

find it telling what the band name was,

47:19

because usually the band names of your first

47:22

bands are usually pretty pretty awesome.

47:24

So what was the what was the first band name that you played

47:26

in where you actually like played shows and stuff like that. Well,

47:30

I never played shows in any of the bands that I played

47:32

basin because I was that bad and they were like pathetic.

47:34

But The first band I played um drums

47:37

in was called Havelina. Because

47:39

we were a Pixies cover band, there

47:42

could not be Yeah. I was about to say, okay, Pixies

47:44

cover band. Sure, yeah, totally.

47:47

Yeah, that's good. That's good. Well what did

47:50

did that? Well? I guess what was

47:52

the first original music project that

47:55

you did that started to play shows? I

47:58

was in an amazing band. I was God.

48:00

This band was so great with my friend Jason,

48:03

called the Shepherd Kings, and we actually

48:05

moved to Minneapolis to make

48:08

it in the music business in the

48:10

big city. And of

48:12

course that didn't happen. But but

48:15

yeah, the Shepherd Kings were an incredible

48:17

band. I love that band. Got it, got it? Um

48:21

the So then, you know, as you started to

48:23

pursue the music life and start

48:25

to you know, follow a path that you know, I'm

48:27

sure your parents were like, so so,

48:30

Porscha, this is interesting what you're doing.

48:32

Um. You know, I appreciate that you've you've

48:34

finished school and you've done all these important things

48:37

from there, but you know, how are you going to make a living? Was

48:39

there ever any of those conversations that were had. No,

48:42

but I had a lot of pressure. Um. I

48:45

felt like my mom wouldn't be okay if I was just a punk

48:47

rock drummer. So that's why I went to grad school in

48:51

a nuts in a nutshell, right, it

48:53

sounds like every step of schooling you did was to

48:55

appease your parents. Yeah,

48:58

you know, I hadn't thought of that, really, I mean having thought

49:00

about that a lot, because I don't feel

49:02

I don't like hold resentment about it. I mean, I'm

49:04

glad I went to school. It's just it feels if

49:06

it does feel like there were a lot of expectations, but

49:08

they weren't very vocal about them. I just I feel

49:11

like I would have just been a total

49:13

loser if I hadn't done that. I think sometimes that gets

49:15

transmitted in families, even if um

49:18

no one says it out loud. Yeah, well, I mean I

49:20

think a lot of it too, stems from the fact that you

49:23

know parents. I mean, you can attest

49:25

to this where you know parents like you. You know,

49:28

you just want your best for your kid and blah blah blah. But

49:31

when you bring something to the table that

49:34

is such a foreign concept for you know,

49:36

parents to understand, where it's just like, oh,

49:38

yeah, I'm gonna tour in a band and or just like wait,

49:40

but you don't like you're not trying to play

49:43

arenas, You're just trying to play like dirty bars,

49:45

Like how is that even a thing? Like you can't do you

49:47

can't do that, So like, you know, the fear

49:50

creeps in of like I don't I don't

49:52

want this person coming back to my house

49:54

when they're like forty five years old and like barely

49:57

living, Like I don't know how to handle this. Oh

50:00

my god. Yeah. I mean my parents were in the arts,

50:02

so I don't think they ever were worried that I

50:04

wanted to be an artist. I think,

50:07

uh Um, I don't know. I

50:10

don't know if they expected more for me. I mean my father

50:12

was always just happy with whatever I did, you know, he was

50:14

always like that's great, honey, that sounds

50:16

great. Um. And I

50:18

feel like my mom, you know,

50:21

she had her own problems. I don't know. I

50:23

think I was a little more self directed than that. You know. I just

50:25

kind of was like, well, I gotta do this because I got to do this. I

50:27

think I just had a lot of ideas, you know how kids

50:29

have ideas, like this is how it has to be because

50:32

just because that's what I think, Yeah, that's that's

50:34

the way it's got a role. Um. And

50:37

so then you know, you sit your

50:40

role at Kill rock Stars, and then you know what

50:42

you did with your management company.

50:46

Obviously a lot of business that gets tied into the

50:48

music industry, and you know a lot of times

50:50

people whether they're doing it for their bands

50:53

or whether they're doing it to help out their friends

50:55

bands. Um, you know, have to learn

50:57

how to do that or are either immediately

51:00

you kind of take into the business aspect. You know,

51:02

how did that sit with you? Were you immediately

51:04

like, oh yo, I get this, Like I know how

51:06

to you know whatever, book a show and settle

51:08

and like try to help you know, a band grow

51:11

their career whatever that may mean. Or

51:13

is that something that you just had to learn how to

51:15

do over time? No, I I was

51:17

because I was the one in my band who always did the business.

51:20

I was the instead of the drunk

51:22

drummer passed out on the couch person, I was

51:25

the business like drummer who like you

51:27

know, took care of all settling up and and uh

51:30

you know, always was sober

51:32

and responsible. Here's

51:36

that natural, right, here's the exactly

51:39

here's where we here's what we got to do in order

51:41

to do this. Here's booking, the recording time

51:43

and all that stuff. Yeah, I didn't

51:45

even start drinking. This is such a crazy fact. I didn't

51:47

even start drinking until years after I

51:50

stopped being in band, which,

51:52

like, I don't even know what it was wrong with me, Like what was

51:54

I thinking? I don't know. I think it's because I just didn't

51:56

like beer. And I thought beer was the only thing you could

51:58

drink, right, It just didn't occur to

52:00

me to drink anything else. So I was like, oh, I don't like beer,

52:03

so I guess I don't drink, right, you were, and that you

52:05

were unintentionally straight edge. I was an unintentional

52:08

straight edge drummer. That's

52:11

good. That's good that Actually, I

52:13

want to wager a bet that there is a

52:15

large contingent of people who are like unintentionally

52:18

straight edge, like you know, coming from the

52:20

same scene that we came from, that

52:22

are just like, oh, yeah, I don't like beer, and then all of a

52:24

sudden they realized like, oh wait a minute, like there are other options

52:27

out there. Yeah. When I once

52:29

booked to show at my college for that

52:31

band Consolidated if you remember them, and

52:34

um, they asked us to bring beer. So

52:37

I went to the grocery store and I bought like three

52:39

six packs of beer off the shelf because

52:41

I didn't know beer had to be cold, Like

52:44

I didn't know it had to be cold. So I just brought them

52:46

like three cases of warm beer. And they

52:48

were so mad, like they

52:51

were furious, and I was just like what, totally,

52:55

Like this is no idea, Yeah, this is literally

52:58

beer. I am bringing it to you. Like right, you said beer,

53:01

that's wrong. But he's your writer. Yeah,

53:04

oh man, I learned. That's amazing that

53:07

one when went along the line, did

53:09

you did you meet your husband? I

53:11

met him in at in two thousand

53:13

at rock show. I went to see Slater Kenny

53:16

at Irving Plaza in New York and he was

53:18

there. Got it, got it. We were introduced

53:20

by a mutual friend. Well that's

53:22

how all good relationships start, right at

53:25

a Slater k show. They better Yeah, or

53:28

I was. I was referencing the the meeting

53:30

through a mutual friend. Oh yeah, totally,

53:32

rather than you know, maybe uh, you

53:35

know, my space messaging each other or something like that.

53:38

Exactly. Well, um, we are supposed

53:40

to have a round table in four minutes and everyone

53:42

has just showed up. Okay, so

53:46

so so that's since been a delightful

53:48

conversation. But I kind of have to stop. No,

53:50

no problem, I I there are there are other things that I was

53:52

gonna get to, but yeah, we do not have the time or the place.

53:55

But yeah, we can maybe pick it up again another

53:57

time. But yeah, thank you for your time. I really appreciate

53:59

it. Yeah, thanks man. Yes,

54:03

so there's that conversation. And isn't Porsche

54:05

just just pleasant, just a fun hang.

54:08

It definitely was a unique conversation

54:10

in the sense of I felt like we were kind

54:12

of flitting around at the beginning, but in uh,

54:14

in a in a very good way. I felt like we were drilling

54:17

down into things that I might not typically

54:19

talk about on this show. So yeah,

54:21

because you know, I'll be honest, there are

54:23

times in which, you know, for

54:25

those of you that listen to the show in a regular basis, know that

54:28

I have a familiar line of questioning,

54:30

like, yes, it kind of elicits interesting

54:33

responses and we kind of spin off in different directions.

54:35

But there are times where the conventions

54:38

of this show uh trapped me

54:40

in a way where I'm like, Okay, I'm I'm

54:42

going to be the show where it's going to dig

54:44

down in what makes this person

54:46

who they are and how they got an independent music and

54:49

uh, I don't want to stick too much that formula,

54:51

even though you know, frankly it is why people

54:54

come on this show. But when i'm when

54:56

I'm able to, you know, go in little tangents. It's

54:58

uh, it's really fun because that's, frankly

55:00

why podcasting is so cool. So thank

55:03

you very much, Porsche, and you should listen to our

55:05

show The Future of What on any

55:07

podcast player that you do

55:10

consume and listen to your content

55:12

on. Oh I hate content. I should stop saying

55:14

that please. Like I've said it before, it just feels

55:16

so icky, so disposable. But

55:19

anyways, Um, the guest

55:21

next week, let's let's tick into that. It is

55:23

Cam Bouchair Bouchair,

55:26

I think that's how you say it. He's from

55:28

sty Noise and Old Gray, and uh,

55:31

we had such an amazing conversation and I can't

55:33

wait to share it with you. It'll be a jam

55:35

packed episode next week because I got some

55:37

music to play for you and a bunch of fun stuff

55:39

going on. So that's that's

55:42

it. Okay, how about you have a good rest

55:44

of the week and please, as I always tell

55:46

you, be safe. Everybody you've

55:49

been listening to the Jabber Jaw podcast network

55:52

Jabber John Media dot com.