0:00

Hi there. I'm Zach Raff and I'm Donald Phason.

0:02

We're real life best friends, but we

0:04

met playing fake life best friends

0:07

Turk and j D on the sitcom Scrubs.

0:09

Twenty years later, we've decided to rewatch

0:11

the series one episode at a time and

0:13

put our memories into a podcast

0:16

you can listen to at home. We're gonna get all our

0:18

special guest friends like Sarah Chalk,

0:20

John c McGinley, Neil Flynn, Judy

0:22

Reyes, show creator Bill Lawrence,

0:25

editors, writers, and even prop

0:27

masters would tell us about what inspired

0:29

the series and how we became a family.

0:32

You can listen to the podcast Fake Doctors,

0:34

Real Friends with Zack and Donald on the

0:36

I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast

0:38

and wherever you get your podcasts. Hello

0:59

one, Hello all. You are listening to a hundred

1:01

words that lest the podcast. Obviously you're smart

1:03

enough for that, because you downloaded this thing, and I

1:05

appreciate that. I'm Ray Harkins, your host. We're

1:08

talking music of the independent

1:10

variety, whether it's like punk, hardcore, d

1:13

i y, indie rock, whatever it is, as

1:15

long as it has that spirit of not asking

1:17

permission, doing it yourself, and

1:19

then figuring it out along the way, because that's what this podcast

1:22

is, you know, some like some seven

1:24

years in, I'm still figuring stuff

1:26

out and learning new things, and uh, yeah, it's

1:28

great. Today's show is awesome

1:31

because I have Scott Hobart from

1:33

Giants Chair. Now, if you're not familiar

1:35

with Giants Chair, totally at it. I understand

1:37

you are not of a certain age. But they

1:40

loomed large in the sort of early nineties

1:42

mid nineties emo indie rock scene,

1:44

and uh I got keyed into them via

1:47

Caven. I was aware of their band's name,

1:49

and I was also aware of the record label

1:51

they were on, so I checked them out. It didn't really connect

1:54

to me until I kind of put it in the contextual

1:56

realization of where they sat in

1:58

the scene. And they actually just released

2:00

a new record in December on

2:03

Spartan Records. It's called pre Fabylon

2:06

and it is a really, really good record. It's a great starting

2:08

point if you've never listened to the band, So you

2:11

definitely need to check it out

2:13

from that perspective. And you need to check this interview

2:15

at because it was great. But let's get some some business

2:18

pleasantries out of the way. Well, it's not even really business

2:20

pleasant tries. I just want to know how you were doing, so please

2:22

email the show one hundred words podcast at gmail

2:24

dot com. I would love to interact

2:26

with people from that capacity. And also

2:29

I was able to attend two

2:32

cool things this weekend. One of them was a the I

2:34

Heart Podcast Awards. And I know this

2:36

sounds like I'm being like a company shillman,

2:38

because that's the company I worked for, and obviously

2:40

I like podcasts, but it was pretty

2:43

neat because I Heart Radio like they

2:45

know how to put on an event, and it was really

2:47

cool to see a celebration of

2:49

some of the best podcasts around. It was

2:51

very cute because my my eight year old son

2:54

was like, Daddy, are you winning an award? And

2:56

I was like, no, no, I'm not winning an award.

2:58

I'm just going to this show because for the company.

3:00

And there's some some cool stuff going on, so

3:02

um yeah, some great winners, like the

3:05

best Music Podcast was a previous guest of

3:07

the show, Jake Brennan from Disgrace Land, and

3:09

uh, there was also just just a ton of cool

3:12

stuff. There was a I'm trying to think if there's any

3:14

other you know, music connections from that perspective,

3:16

but I don't think there was, but it was a

3:18

fun time. And then the next night I was able

3:20

to go to see Poison the Well do their

3:23

twentieth anniversary show celebrating

3:25

the Opposite of December. And

3:28

you know, to be honest, I haven't listened to Poison the

3:30

Well on a very regular basis and quite some

3:32

time, but man, the moment they started

3:34

playing Opposite of December songs, I was just

3:36

transported back to a time and place and

3:39

those songs still hold up. That record

3:41

still is unbelievable, and

3:43

uh, there're so many friends and it was just it

3:46

was such a positive show. I loved experiencing

3:48

that, and I hope that you get a chance to see

3:50

that band performed, because I know that they're doing more shows

3:53

like that is an absolute reality because this show sold

3:55

out in like I don't know, ten fifteen

3:57

minutes or something like that. But it was

3:59

a lot of fun. So yeah, just tossed on

4:01

Opposite December and you'll be like, oh man, that was really

4:03

fun. And you can also dive super

4:05

far back in the archives and you will hear an

4:07

interview that I did with Chris Hornbrook from

4:09

Poison the Well. The drummer, Uh, so

4:11

yeah, I check that out. But anyways, here

4:14

is Scott from Giants Chair. It

4:16

was it was a really enlightening conversation

4:18

because there was stuff that I just did not know about the band

4:20

and not know about him, and uh, yeah, I hope you enjoy

4:23

So here is the chat um.

4:40

So you know, I'm thirty nine years old from southern

4:42

California and started to get into you know,

4:44

like punk and hardcore and indie rock and stuff

4:46

and kind of you know, like whatever and

4:50

um, you know, for a while, I kind

4:52

of resisted the idea of like singing

4:54

music because you know, that's what aggressive

4:57

young teens don't like, you know, like, yes,

5:01

I want the heavier stuff or whatever. Right.

5:03

But then you know, as I as my eyes opened

5:06

up with you know, bands like Texas The Reason and Christie

5:08

Front Drive and all that stuff, you know, I took a deep dive into

5:10

it. And Caulfield Records was definitely a you

5:12

know, entry point for me and had

5:15

such a good track record as far as everything they've released,

5:17

and it was interesting when I found Giant's

5:19

Chair, I immediately

5:22

I enjoyed it and I was taken with it.

5:25

But it was one of those things where I was like, oh,

5:27

these guys feel older. And I don't mean that in

5:29

a pejorative like you know, but it

5:31

just felt, for lack of better term, and you know,

5:33

people throw this around all the time, but like more

5:35

mature. You know, Uh,

5:38

have you got that sort of characterization before? Do

5:40

you see you kind of you know, maybe where a

5:42

random you know, teenager from southern

5:44

California would defind that. Well,

5:47

Um, I feel like actually,

5:49

just kind of recently

5:51

with this new record, we

5:54

we I don't know if it's really

5:56

to your point, but we just saw

5:58

somebody who had just got the record and the

6:00

mail I was listening to it, and they had just they

6:03

were fans of Spartan Records and they had never really

6:06

heard us before and they just kind of but they liked to buy

6:09

all the Spartan stuff and they got it and um

6:11

and there I can't remember word for

6:13

word what they said, but it was something

6:15

to I feel like it was something that you

6:18

know, used the word mature and like it

6:20

was more. Um.

6:22

Yeah, there was something in the music

6:25

for them that that seemed to be um,

6:28

you know, older, I guess to use your

6:31

word, but um, as far as back in

6:33

the day, uh,

6:35

I mean, I think we felt a little bit older because

6:37

we were by but not by much. I mean when

6:39

we were out with Boys Life, um we

6:42

were you know, they were probably two years or so

6:45

maybe maybe a little bit more than that, younger

6:47

than us, and um, but at

6:49

the same time we felt a little greener than

6:52

than them because they had they had already been around,

6:54

and the same with some of the other bands

6:58

around Kansas City that we're getting out

7:00

and around, you know, Season to Risk and Marlon

7:02

McGuire and this Germ Box and

7:04

stuff. They were they had already been out

7:07

doing stuff, and so we kind of always to

7:09

some extent, I felt like we were,

7:11

um, younger in that respect. But

7:15

um, but no, not the

7:17

you know, I haven't really heard the adjective

7:20

of mature or

7:22

older sounding to any

7:25

great degree, but a little bit. Yeah,

7:27

no, I I get that, and I think it's you

7:30

know, it's weird too, because like when you

7:32

know, your your first introduction to whatever

7:35

genre of music, like that's kind of your you

7:37

know, the poll in which you compare

7:39

stuff too, and so if things sound

7:41

a little bit more technical, you're kind

7:43

of like, oh, yeah, like you know, they are

7:46

just more skilled players or whatever. You know,

7:48

yeah, and sometimes you attribute that to you

7:51

know, being a little bit older and like you said,

7:53

you know, maybe a year or two older, but like you know, in

7:55

those terms, that's like a world of difference.

7:58

Sure, yeah, and you think

8:00

that, uh you know, we've also we have had

8:02

reviews of the

8:05

people, you know, people said that of

8:07

our peers, you

8:09

know, some of their bands and stuff, that we were

8:11

uh yeah, more technically adept,

8:15

I guess, or you know, we played someone said

8:17

we played circles around some of the other Midwestern

8:20

female bands. But I'm not sure we

8:22

will. We all we all like it all

8:24

and sometimes you know, you wanna you

8:26

want to you know, you want to

8:29

hope that you were um,

8:33

you know, not just the technocrats in the room.

8:35

But yeah, right, you're not just like impress

8:39

right, I wish I could shred more,

8:42

you know, I wish I had more chops. But um

8:45

but anyway, that's always nice to hear if people

8:47

think you do. Yeah. And

8:49

also I'm not sure if this got reflected back

8:51

on you at any point too, But the like

8:54

Steve Brodsky from caven Um,

8:56

you know, he he did a side project called

8:59

kid Kill a Lot that was very

9:02

very um akin to what Giants

9:04

Chair was doing and you know, is

9:06

still doing from that person. Um,

9:09

you know, and like once I fell

9:11

in love with that project and I kind of worship

9:13

at the altar of Steve Bronsky, So like when he started

9:15

kind of sprinkling like oh yeah, Giants Shair is really

9:17

important, it kind of like all came full circle

9:20

to me where I was like, oh, yeah, I see,

9:22

like you know, not only do I it's cool. Yeah.

9:24

So I don't know it were if you were aware

9:27

of that sort of like homage that was being paid

9:29

to Giants Share, well, I know,

9:31

Um, I knew of Steve, and I knew

9:33

that that that Caven had covered the

9:35

um the callous that

9:38

song and um, and of course

9:40

I mean that is just you know, you can't really

9:42

hope for more flattering situation

9:45

than someone taking your your

9:48

song and doing it. You know. That's always

9:51

huge. Um. And then yeah,

9:53

and we we did get a chance to play

9:55

with them. They came through. We had not that

9:57

long ago, it was probably through

10:00

years ago. Now they were

10:02

uh Mutoid Man was

10:05

coming through and so uh they asked

10:07

if we could, if we would want to play, and we were

10:09

by then writing the songs for the new record,

10:11

and so it was fun to sit with him and or

10:13

stand with him and talk for a little bit about

10:16

about all that. And yeah, that's super

10:18

cool. That is that. That is very cool, and

10:20

it it also is really neat to have,

10:23

um, you know that all kind of cycle

10:25

back where people are still

10:28

staying active in music, such as yourself

10:30

and obviously Steve for that matter, and then being

10:32

to you know, like you said, share the stage and just

10:34

like you know, talk to each other as peers as opposed

10:36

to like, you know, Steve being a fourteen year old trying

10:39

to rip off you know, like it's just

10:41

it's cool to have that. Yeah,

10:43

it is. And man, they slayed

10:45

too. I mean it's just talk about someone you

10:47

know. But I mean, plus

10:50

they're hilarious, you know. But

10:53

just the technical you know, that was definitely

10:55

one of those nights are it's like wow, well

10:58

and I didn't have lyrics for a lot of the stuff,

11:00

so I was kind of just scratch vocaling

11:03

some things. Sometimes that happens if I forget

11:05

some things, but this, at that stage,

11:08

we were just glad to be We just we're kind of trying

11:10

to start playing the songs out and get a feel for you

11:13

know what what they would do live and so you

11:15

know, not only was did he have words for his songs

11:17

that were real, he could also

11:19

play the hell out of him you know, then the whole

11:22

band you know, so anyway, but

11:24

yeah, right, you know we're all to be able

11:26

to kind of come full circle, you know, and

11:28

um and sort of all be

11:31

the same age ultimately, Yeah,

11:34

totally, because yeah, I mean to your point earlier,

11:36

when you are you know, anywhere between

11:38

like sixteen to twenty three, if a person

11:41

is you know, two or three years older than you, that

11:43

is like such a vast difference, even

11:45

though you know, yeah, when you're thirty nine versus

11:47

forty two, it's like no one cares, like there's no right,

11:50

there's no difference exactly. Yes,

11:54

Um, so kind of reflecting on you as a person,

11:56

you know, I know you're there's you know, some biographical

11:58

information I'm gonna across just because

12:00

you know that's been reiterated in a

12:03

bunch of different places. But I understand you were

12:05

born and raised in kind of rural Missouri. Like how

12:07

how rural are we talking about it? We're talking about like you

12:09

know, like one stoplight town or yes,

12:12

exactly, it was. It was it's a they

12:15

have a couple of stoplights and actual traffic

12:18

lights now because you know, the fast

12:20

food comes in and then the

12:22

things get a little a little more hectic.

12:24

But when I was growing up, I mean, we literally

12:27

had one red flashing

12:29

stop light in the center of town. And

12:32

um, and so it was I think, you

12:34

know, we joked there was four thousand people

12:36

on a good day in town, you know

12:38

generally, so, I mean it's not the smallest

12:41

town in southern Missouri, but it was

12:44

definitely one of the smaller

12:46

ones. Yeah, And I think

12:48

to your point, I think it's one of those things

12:50

where I think

12:52

it's good for people to, you know,

12:54

either be raised from or having experience

12:56

of staying in a town that is that

12:59

tiny, because it not only gives you perspective

13:01

and something to you know, compare stuff too.

13:03

But um, yeah, like my my stepfather

13:05

was raised in a town called Farmington, Illinois, and

13:07

it was like to your point, it was like,

13:10

I mean, I think it was a little bit larger, but you know,

13:12

me being a suburb boy getting

13:14

exposed to you know, rural

13:17

life, I was like, oh, yeah, the world

13:19

is bigger than just my suburb or whatever.

13:22

Yeah, yeah, the fabric you know

13:24

of at all. The contrast for

13:27

me, the contrast between growing

13:29

up there and you know, really

13:32

you know, I've spent eighteen years, I mean all

13:34

my formative years were down there and then um

13:37

at eighteen two, uh

13:39

to come up to Kansas City,

13:41

which is four hours away, and um

13:43

just kind of be transplanted, and to

13:46

be transplanted in a very creative environment

13:49

of a you know, an art college, and the music

13:51

scene is pretty mind blowing totally

13:55

in a really great way. You know. Oh boy,

13:57

I love shows. I love going to shows. I love happy

14:00

experiences at shows, stuff that is like

14:02

a little bit different than maybe just going

14:04

to a venue watching a band play.

14:06

Go to sound rank dot com and they will

14:09

deliver that in spade. So they have all of these

14:11

amazing v I P ticket upgrades

14:13

that you can include on many of the tours

14:15

that are coming through your city. I have seen

14:18

stuff like, you know, play Djenga with your

14:20

favorite band, go grab some coffee. Here's

14:22

a really cool, in depth acoustic

14:24

Q and A with the band. I've

14:26

seen so many of these awesome, awesome options,

14:29

and what makes it even cooler is that they

14:31

work hand in hand with band and

14:33

the management to be able to make sure they're

14:35

crafting that experience that's you know, true and authentic

14:38

to the band because you've been to something

14:40

that a band doesn't want to do, right, Like you know, like a

14:42

random autograph signing at like a you know, a

14:44

mall store, Like that's that's a nightmare.

14:47

No one really wants to do that. But these experiences

14:49

are exactly what the band wants to do because they've selected

14:52

them. So go to sound ring dot

14:54

com. They have this v I P ticket

14:56

game on lock and they will make sure that

14:58

your experience is well worth every penny

15:01

that you paid for it. So sound rank dot

15:03

com, thank you for supporting the show and go to

15:05

some more shows. Okay, you know at that point you

15:07

were ready to kind of you know, be

15:09

exposed to the world outside of it. Like

15:11

did you feel I mean, obviously

15:13

because you went to a larger city and you know, wanted

15:16

a larger experience. Did you have that

15:18

kind of like, you know, small town I can't

15:20

wait to break out of it sort of you know vibes

15:22

going on or was it just you know, it's funny. I

15:25

never I never really felt that way.

15:27

I don't know if I just had a fear of

15:29

not appreciating where I where I

15:32

was from, because it was sort of the cliche

15:34

that, you know, I just want to you know, shake the dust

15:36

off and get out there. I'll never come

15:38

back to this town. And I always just assumed I would

15:41

miss it when I left, and

15:43

so I kind of tried to appreciate it

15:45

as best I could while I was there,

15:48

and um, and so

15:50

it wasn't I mean, I was

15:52

excited by the adventure of it all

15:55

and and um, and have really no

15:57

idea what to expect when I

15:59

got away from there. But I you

16:01

know, I went back and was glad

16:03

to go back the following you know, after my

16:06

first year of college to work,

16:08

you know, molling lawns

16:10

or whatever, you know, just to work and go back

16:12

home for the summer. Um. So I

16:14

was not in any huge hurry to

16:17

get away necessarily, but

16:19

I'm glad I did. And it was you know, it's

16:21

all open good, yeah, sure, sure.

16:23

Well I think the comedian Patton

16:25

Oswald, like he you know, made

16:27

some joke or because he was raising a small

16:29

town in Virginia and he said the

16:31

moment that people started talking about

16:33

working at the local gas station because they get

16:35

free gas. Like, yeah, that

16:38

that is It's like, oh, like, yeah,

16:40

you have no ambitions beyond just this this you

16:42

know, five mile radius or whatever, right,

16:45

And yeah, I mean I guess maybe that works on

16:47

some level for some folks, but I, you

16:49

know, I don't. I guess I

16:51

figured I would leave, you

16:53

know, I need it would go. So it wasn't

16:55

like I wasn't planning on stay,

16:58

and but I was not, uh,

17:00

trying to run

17:02

away from home anytime sooner. Yeah,

17:06

I totally get that. Um, and so what was your family

17:08

structure? Like, you know, mom and dad in the house, brothers and sisters.

17:10

What does that look like that? So

17:12

my mom and dad, uh, for

17:14

you know, until I was eight, and then they split

17:17

up, and um,

17:19

and my dad was around

17:23

pretty much and then but then he ultimately

17:25

he was a shoe repairman, and

17:27

so by then, you

17:30

know, it was just getting harder and harder, uh,

17:32

if you weren't living in a bigger city to find

17:36

people who were buying shoes fancy enough

17:38

to want to get them fixed or something. So

17:40

he so he ended up moving up

17:42

to St. Louis And so it was just my

17:45

mom and my sister and I and

17:48

um that that was

17:50

pretty much the immediate life. I mean,

17:52

he he was around and would come and

17:54

visit and um, and we

17:56

went up there and stayed with him a

17:58

time or two also, and um

18:01

so that was sort of the family vibe. My

18:03

grandmother and grandpa, my

18:06

mom's mom and dad lived in Houston,

18:08

Missouri, which was about sixty miles away.

18:10

So we would go down to their town, which

18:13

was maybe like three people larger

18:15

than our town. Um So

18:17

we would spend time a little farther

18:21

down in there. Um

18:24

uh, you know, spend some spend

18:27

summers a little bit down there if my mom was going

18:30

to go to opery Land or something,

18:33

and then. Uh so that was pretty much the

18:36

the immediate family scene. Got

18:38

it? Got it? And you are you the oldest

18:41

between you and your sister? Yes? Uh huh, yeah

18:43

she was. She was a couple of years older. She's

18:45

past now, but um we had

18:48

a um but yeah, that was our

18:51

just two years apart. Uh got it?

18:53

Got it. Um at what

18:55

age was she when she passed away? I'm sorry to hear that. Oh

18:57

yeah, so she was, Um, she had

19:00

struggled with addiction and

19:02

um so she it

19:05

was really about four years ago

19:07

or so and it finally got

19:09

her and you know, just kind

19:11

of a you know, bad accident

19:14

type thing that but you know

19:16

it was drug related. So

19:18

yeah, and then yeah,

19:21

so that's that, that's when,

19:23

that's what happened there. Yeah, No, that's that. That's

19:25

rough. And you, I mean you

19:28

you can't help but look at

19:30

the you know, um, I guess

19:32

that the boardom that exists in a lot of small towns

19:35

and like you did, did

19:37

you? Um? You know, and you

19:39

I'm sure had some of that as well. I mean, like,

19:41

you know, was I

19:44

guess it was that kind of pervasive around your town,

19:46

not even like drugs, but just kind of the the

19:48

the boredom of like, oh man, like what are we

19:50

gonna do today? I guess, right, But yeah, I mean I think

19:52

there, yeah, there was, there was. I

19:55

think some of that. Of course, you

19:57

know, you can there

20:00

was a lot there was. I felt like, um,

20:04

you know, the kids older than me,

20:06

you know, I was I was pretty much a

20:09

straight edge kid for for whatever

20:11

reason. I think I kind of I mean, my folks

20:13

that split up because my dad was an alcoholic

20:15

and and so I kind of had

20:17

a ingrained sort of

20:19

paranoia about it. But the

20:22

older class kids and stuff.

20:24

I just remember them going to the river to party and stuff.

20:26

So I suppose that was, you know, part

20:29

of that. But I think that happens. Uh.

20:31

And you know any

20:33

you know, high school population, Um,

20:36

they're just you know, people just trying to find

20:39

some kind of excitement no matter where

20:41

you are, and you're gonna think your board

20:44

no matter what. So just seeing

20:46

what's out there. Um. But I do

20:48

feel like, you know, with the you

20:51

know, when I look back, um,

20:53

you know, the opioid

20:55

thing, you know that has really

20:57

decimated a lot of things down there

20:59

in Mats also. I mean, and I do think

21:02

that that, yeah, there's just a sort of this well,

21:05

you know, there's nothing else really going

21:08

on, and I'm not aspiring to do

21:10

anything else, and there's you know,

21:13

no opportunity, so why

21:15

not just obliterate you know? Yeah,

21:17

totally. I feel like that's a thing for sure.

21:20

Yeah, it definitely. I mean when

21:22

you combine all of these elements

21:25

of like everything you're talking about, like you said, plus

21:27

the boredom, plus the I like you

21:29

know what what, Like I got brought

21:31

into this world into these like weird circumstances

21:34

and like a small town like how the hell am

21:36

I going to get out of here? And then you just feel that, you

21:38

know, that cycle happening over right.

21:41

Yeah, it's yeah, it's pretty rough. Did

21:44

you actually like were you claiming straight

21:46

edge? Like were you aware of that or that was just kind

21:48

of it was funny,

21:50

Like I I, I did not

21:52

really know a lot about what. I

21:55

didn't know anything really about punk culture.

21:57

Um. I ultimately

22:00

whenever I was a skateboarder

22:02

and I started skating

22:04

with some guys who were um from

22:06

the college town about ten miles

22:08

away Ralah, Missouri, and

22:10

they were more into punk

22:13

culture and I was, and you know, I would get

22:15

um, you know, skate magazines,

22:17

and so I kind of started to see that

22:19

there was a different world and some different

22:22

you know, things going on. But

22:24

I do remember, you know, while I never

22:26

put a had, I never had black xes

22:28

on my hands. But I do remember for a while, for

22:31

a long while, I was drawn. Every day I would

22:33

draw a skull and

22:35

crossbones on my hand and I don't

22:37

even know where it came from. And yeah

22:40

it was like a vaguely uh it

22:42

was a vague x really, but it

22:44

was a skull and crossbones for some reason, and

22:47

it was definitely during my you

22:49

know, you guys are just fucking

22:51

your lives up by partying and I'm just

22:53

skating. Yeah, you know, I

22:56

have to say, I mean I I I'm still straight edged

22:58

myself, and I know I definitely

23:00

like xed up in high school, like you know, going to

23:03

school. But like I could safely

23:05

say, I have never heard a skull

23:07

and crossbone X like vaguely resemble

23:09

it like that is that is a beautiful piece

23:11

of poetry, Scott. I like that. I

23:14

don't know, it's just funny. Like yes, the

23:17

coincidence of it all that dogs

23:19

me totally, though. I love that. I love that.

23:21

It's just like you know, accidental straight edge

23:23

that you were claiming via crossbone.

23:27

That's so good. Um. And so I

23:29

mean I find that interesting that you

23:31

know you started. I mean, most people that

23:34

are of a certain age definitely get you

23:36

know, bitten by the skate bug and then you know, start

23:38

to get exposed to subculture via

23:41

that because you know, that was really, uh,

23:43

you know, so pervasive within that

23:45

time frame. So it sounds

23:48

like skate culture was basically your sort of like

23:50

entry point. And who, um, I

23:52

guess who kind of introduced that to you or was that just like

23:54

you know, amongst the town kids. Well,

23:57

so we I remember seeing

24:00

um uh,

24:03

Back to the Future and

24:06

Michael J. Fox, you know, his skateboard.

24:08

You know, he was a skater basically, you

24:10

know in that movie. And

24:13

so I was like, oh my gosh, I want to I want

24:15

that, you know. And then at some point I also

24:17

saw fast Times at Ridgement High

24:20

and so that was kind of a surf thing, and

24:23

you know, it just was intriguing to me. And you

24:25

know, I was at a moment where you're kind of trying to figure out

24:28

who you are and trying to recreate yourself

24:30

and um

24:33

and so yeah, I think I was. That's

24:35

probably where I first started seeing

24:38

that. And then that's when I wanted to get a skateboard

24:40

for Christmas, and I

24:42

did and it was all, you know,

24:45

absolutely obsessive skating. Then

24:47

from then on, you know, we built and in fact,

24:50

you know, my my day job here now I

24:53

worked, I build sets for a children's theater and

24:56

I learned how to do that

24:58

those kinds of things by building skate ramps,

25:01

you know, um, you know, learning

25:03

how to use some power tools and how

25:05

to frame up of strange shape or

25:08

or whatever. So um,

25:10

it's really yeah, the whole skate culture

25:13

has been an entry into a lot of things

25:15

for me that I didn't even realize until

25:17

much later. No, I love that because I think most

25:19

of us that get raised in you know,

25:21

these weird subcultures, you're like

25:23

learning skills but you don't have It's

25:26

not like you're saying that as you're

25:28

doing it. You're not like, oh man, I'm really

25:30

learning some beautiful woodwork here. You're like, no, I skate

25:32

ramp, dude, Yeah, I just

25:35

want to I just want to skate.

25:37

Yeah, I just gotta drop in. I gotta have a half

25:39

pipe obviously, that's

25:41

right. Yeah. Um.

25:44

And so then you know, did clearly

25:47

recognize the music connection, like

25:49

as you started to probably watch you know, some

25:51

rudimentary skate videos or just you know, see stuff

25:53

and throat. What was I guess

25:56

of the entry point band

25:58

wise from that perspective. Well,

26:00

so around then, you know, Bones

26:03

Brigade, Uh stuff was

26:05

happening. And um and so Agent

26:07

Orange I think

26:10

they were on like the first Bone Brigade video.

26:13

Um. I think anyway, I know for sure

26:16

I learned about Agent Orange through um

26:18

skate culture. So

26:20

yeah, Agent Orange and then it's some somewhere

26:22

around there too. Um. So

26:25

this is another thing that intrigues me about my

26:28

hometown growing up, and

26:30

it's in skating and all that. Um.

26:34

It's funny because the town over, the college

26:36

town Ralla, you

26:38

know, I don't know what their population was, but

26:40

you know, at least three times our town

26:42

and probably more when

26:45

school was in um

26:47

and they they, you know,

26:49

my skater friends over there, they were constantly

26:51

having the skate harassment thing happened,

26:53

you know, the just jocks or whatever.

26:56

And I never really had that happen.

26:58

I mean, it was all you know, our own you know, we would go

27:00

we'd be skating around while everybody else was cruising

27:03

and drinking or whatever, and they would just pull

27:05

in and see what we were up to and said it

27:07

was so cool, and you know, they loved it, and

27:09

so it was very supportive and ever, you

27:11

know, it was not a strange friction

27:13

at all. And then um,

27:16

and some of those guys who

27:18

would have been considered you know, jocks

27:21

or at least you know, that was their world.

27:23

We're also going up

27:25

to St. Louis to see um,

27:27

you know, like punk shows,

27:30

and they would you know, and I was Actually

27:32

I would hear about these shows that then the bands they

27:35

were going to see, and I was just kind of frightened by it

27:37

all. And I was like, oh my gosh, you guys, how

27:39

could you go up there and just jump into all

27:41

this craziness and um.

27:44

But anyway, they would bring back you know, uh

27:47

stories and band names or whatever, you

27:49

know, and um.

27:52

And then at some point they they

27:54

were also into uh the Repo

27:56

Man soundtrack that movie,

27:59

and it was huge. I mean we were just we

28:01

were you know. I was like, oh my gosh, you know all those

28:04

you know, real punk

28:07

bands. Um,

28:09

and so that

28:11

was huge, I guess so musically that

28:14

all kind of happened around the same time, nice

28:17

and very influential. And how

28:19

did your you know, because it sounded

28:21

like your your mom was the one that was doing

28:23

most of it. I guess the parenting as far as

28:25

being you know, living with her and stuff, how you

28:28

know, as he started getting to this weird stuff that

28:30

she probably had no context for her, how did she react

28:32

to it? Oh? She was so

28:34

my mom was a hairdresser, and

28:37

she um,

28:40

you know, she was just she

28:42

was like, I don't care as long as you're not getting into

28:45

trouble. You know, you can do whatever you

28:47

want. So I was having her giving me you know,

28:49

crazy haircuts and dyeing

28:52

it, you know, or do what anything. You know.

28:54

I was just trying to be nonconformists

28:57

in some any way I could and um, and

28:59

she just was all for it. And so

29:02

she would just do whatever I wanted

29:04

and let me do where or whatever I wanted or anything.

29:07

And she just figured it was pretty harmless

29:09

and you know, just part of the uh

29:12

you know, a per personal evolution. And

29:14

so I have to thank her a lot for not

29:17

you know, you know, she

29:20

was just she was just like, well, you're you're the one

29:22

who has to wear it, so whatever you want to

29:24

do. Yeah, she was

29:27

very good about that. And you know music,

29:29

I mean she didn't she didn't understand

29:32

or care really too much about what

29:34

I was listening to, but she she did.

29:37

I think she did value um,

29:39

you know culture, and

29:42

so she would, um, she

29:44

would take us up to St. Louis, which

29:46

was the two you know, that was only two hours away from

29:48

where I grew up, and we would go

29:50

up there to see you know plays,

29:53

big Broadway plays or um,

29:56

we would go. She took us to see our first concerts.

29:58

You know, my first big show was Culture

30:00

Club in um

30:03

St. Louis. And then she took us to see Rush

30:06

at least twice, me and my buddies. Um

30:09

and then uh, you know, just

30:13

you know whatever, she was just she

30:15

just felt like that was worth while. I guess,

30:17

yeah, she was supportive. No, that's yeah.

30:20

And then I was also at the same time into break

30:22

dancing. That was

30:24

just I mean, it was a real soup of

30:27

culture craziness in

30:29

a world where everyone is confined

30:31

to their homes, society begins

30:34

its largest bin watch to date in

30:37

the hallowed library of Hulu, or perhaps

30:39

on a shelf of DVDs you haven't looked at

30:41

in a decade. Is the show that perfectly

30:44

encapsulates life in the early Auts

30:46

and launched a friendship that would inspire

30:49

millions. Hi, I'm Zach Braff

30:51

and I'm Donald Phason. In two thousand one,

30:54

we start in Scrubs, a sitcom

30:56

that revealed a glimpse of what it was like to survive

30:58

a medical intern ship. As Turk

31:01

and j D, we explored guy

31:03

love. Nearly twenty years later, a

31:05

lot has changed. We're not Superman,

31:08

but we're still best friends. Given

31:10

a mandatory lockdown. There's no better

31:12

time to relive the series that brought us together

31:14

in the first place. And we're doing it with a

31:17

podcast. That's right, people, We're

31:19

gonna bring friends and crew members

31:21

and fellow cast members and writers

31:24

and and guess what, We're going to even invite

31:26

some of you to call into the podcast

31:29

and ask all the questions you want of the

31:31

entire Sacred Heart staff. Join

31:34

us for Fake Doctor's Real friends on

31:36

the I Heart Radio app, Apple

31:38

Podcasts, and wherever you get your podcasts.

31:41

Rockabillya dot com use this

31:44

code PC one words and that gets

31:46

you off your order. The

31:48

reason I give that to you first and foremost is that still

31:50

you don't forget it. Once you visit the

31:52

website, you will be absolutely spending as

31:55

much money as possible on the

31:57

rad band merge that they have. This is

31:59

an independent run company, all officially

32:01

licensed merch. They ship it out to you fast.

32:04

They have hundreds and thousands

32:06

of pieces of merch. I love it. Why don't

32:08

you go there right now and you'll be able to

32:10

find some you know, maybe some gifts for

32:12

your your Valentine's Day sweetheart.

32:15

Okay, maybe maybe you can buy them some nice

32:17

band merch stuff and they'll be like, oh wow, that's very

32:19

thoughtful of you. You must have ordered this, and

32:22

you know you you thought ahead as opposed to running

32:24

out to the corner store and getting some horrible flowers.

32:26

You don't need that. But Rockabilly

32:29

is the real deal. They have high quality band

32:31

merch stuff that will last you for years and years

32:33

to come, rather than those horrific bootlegs

32:35

that you see all over the internet. You don't

32:37

need to do that to yourself, nor do you need that to

32:39

anybody that you purchase it for. So,

32:42

like I said, use the code PC one hundred.

32:44

That's the number one zero zero words

32:46

and that gets you off your order. I

32:49

love them so much, so please go check out

32:51

the website and you will. Yeah, you'll buy a lot of

32:53

stuff. Okay, now here's the rest of the show. I

32:55

mean, I appreciate you mentioning that because I think it's

32:57

so it's fun

33:00

to you know, when you're a kid and you're

33:02

pretty much devoid of context, like you're

33:04

just into stuff because you like it.

33:07

You don't, yeah, you know you don't. I mean,

33:09

of course, there's the judgment of friends being like, oh dude,

33:11

that's lame you're doing this thing or whatever. But you

33:13

know, for the most part, like you can kind

33:15

of skate by on some of those things if you

33:17

find the appropriate you know, if even

33:19

if just one of your friends likes breakdancing, you're like,

33:22

all right, that's that's cool. Like I got my coady,

33:24

Oh yeah, definitely, And that's about

33:26

what it was. It was to me and maybe two other guys

33:29

who would who were doing that while

33:31

you know, and you know, well, are we gonna break

33:33

dance or skateboard tonight at

33:36

the at the supermarket parking

33:38

lot? You know, of course, yeah,

33:40

that's beautiful. Um. And

33:43

like you mentioned, um, you know, college

33:45

was kind of an awakening for you in regards to, you

33:47

know, getting you more into like independent music and all

33:49

that sort of stuff. Um. But I guess prior

33:51

to that, like did you did you care about school?

33:53

Did you have kind of like ambitions for yourself

33:55

in regards to like, oh, this is a career I'm gonna

33:57

do. Um No, not

34:00

really, I you

34:02

know, sort of around the seventh

34:05

grade era. By then, I

34:07

was not a good student. I

34:09

could always draw and paint. I liked

34:11

to, you know, I was I could ace art,

34:13

no matter what. And drafting. I loved drafting

34:16

and shop class and those

34:18

things. But uh, and

34:20

I liked to write. Um,

34:22

but you know, whenever

34:25

it came to like diagramming senses or

34:27

doing any kind of math, I was terrible

34:32

failure. And so

34:35

then, um, eventually I just kind

34:37

of hobbled through. But I was in no way, uh

34:40

um, academically inclined at

34:42

that moment. It was more just well

34:45

if I could just you know, my mom

34:47

was like, you know, if you can just make it through and graduate,

34:50

then maybe you'll go off to art school and you could draw

34:52

all you want and maybe that'll be good.

34:55

She was, she was kind of on that, you

34:58

know, she I mean she wanted me, yeah, I

35:00

mean she was frustrated by my poor uh

35:03

grades. And in fact, at something at one point

35:06

she I went to a private school,

35:08

at Christian school because she was just like I have

35:11

no I mean, she was in no way religious, you

35:13

know, maybe agnostic,

35:16

and it was just like, well, you gotta

35:18

we gotta figure out something. So she sent me to a Christian

35:20

a Baptist school and rale you know in the

35:22

big town over and so that was

35:25

pretty interesting. And um,

35:28

she just tried to find some structure for you that were

35:30

Yeah. Yeah, So I went there for you

35:33

know, half the last half

35:35

of one of my seventh grade year, in the first half

35:37

of my eighth grade and then then I got back to my regular

35:39

school and and that was

35:41

sort of whenever I really started getting

35:44

into the skate culture and

35:46

different stuff like that. But um,

35:49

I can't remember I was going with that, but no,

35:51

no, yeah, you're you're you're you

35:53

know, Oh I'm not a good student. Yeah,

35:55

you're not a good student, right, did The ambitions

35:57

were just like, yeah, I like putting pen to paper

36:00

and drawing it. Yeah, and you know,

36:02

and then started playing guitar too, so that was part

36:04

of that was really the all I wanted to do. And

36:07

then um uh

36:10

but yeah, so eventually I

36:12

I did end up going to back to college.

36:15

We'll get to that maybe later, but I don't

36:17

know. Yeah for sure. I don't want

36:19

to jump ahead too much. I'll let you lead. No, no,

36:21

it's totally good. Yeah, yeah, because that's where I was

36:23

heading there. Yeah, can you hear me? Yeah,

36:25

now I can't. Okay, Yeah, that's

36:28

that's where I was headed in regards to um,

36:30

you know, be you getting exposed

36:33

to the idea of you know, actually like playing

36:35

in a band, because I mean, Ghnet's fair functionally

36:37

is your first band, right, Like did you play anything else

36:39

prior to that in high school or anything? Um?

36:42

Yeah, we had, you know, we had some different bands,

36:44

like a cover band. I did have one full

36:46

original band that had I don't

36:48

know, we probably had five tunes maybe,

36:51

and we played one show and

36:53

then. But other than that, it was

36:55

really just a variety band.

36:57

Basically, it was just all of us guys who had

37:00

by then started playing guitar and drums

37:02

and stuff. Just we would I

37:04

think there were four of us and we would just all

37:06

pick like three songs that we wanted to do, and

37:09

so it was a real mash up kind of

37:11

of classic rock and

37:14

college alternative type stuff.

37:17

Um. And so that's where I probably cut

37:19

my teeth playing in a band. And

37:21

then and in fact, after I went to came

37:24

to Kansas City and started playing with Byron

37:26

the bass player from Giants Chair and we

37:29

um, we were still playing with some of

37:31

those guys. We would travel on the weekends

37:33

because they were available, and

37:35

I was like, well, we already got a drummer and a guy if we can

37:37

get there so we would start, you

37:40

know, we would we were still playing

37:42

with my high school guys at first. But yeah,

37:45

um, as far as uh,

37:50

you know, a band that was doing

37:53

you know, trying to write and record and

37:55

make records was it

37:57

was with Byron first, and we had

37:59

an we had another band called Hollow

38:01

Rain before Giants Chair, it

38:04

was Halloween, and then Hot Boy

38:07

with diff you know, we had different drummers and people, but

38:09

it was always Byron and I and then

38:12

Giants Chairs when we got together

38:14

with Paul and and Byron's old

38:16

high school friend and that's uh,

38:19

that's what happened. Yeah, yeah, um.

38:21

And so you know, as you started to kind

38:23

of like get out there in regards to Giants

38:26

Chair and like you know, play shows and do all

38:28

that sort of stuff, like clearly you know at

38:30

that time and the you know whatever

38:33

getting off of the you know, sort of grunge

38:35

hangover where everybody was, you know, signing

38:38

bands and independent rock was the new thing,

38:40

and but bands obviously

38:42

of this sort of indie rock, you know, emo genre,

38:44

like there's no career path, you know. So I

38:47

I presume I presume that you guys were just

38:49

basically kind of like putting one ft in front

38:51

of the other in regards to like, Hey, I guess we'll

38:54

go on to her now, I guess we'll release a record

38:56

like there's no I really

38:59

didn't know that. It

39:02

was more like Byron and Paul. They had

39:04

grown they were from Green Bay, and Byron

39:07

especially because we were

39:09

you know, we we met each other the first day of college,

39:12

and he had you know, he was he

39:14

had come from this really vibrant punk scene

39:16

and Green Bay where they were you know, all

39:18

ages shows all the time and people

39:21

making records and selling records and doing

39:23

their thing, and so I kind of learned

39:25

about it all from there, and it and

39:27

it, you know, it was just like well and then

39:31

some you know, our friends here in Kansas City

39:33

who were starting bands at that

39:35

time. You know, that just seemed that's

39:37

just what you do. You know, it's just the you

39:39

know, you get to the other, try to get some songs,

39:41

try to record, and um,

39:44

you know, try to play

39:46

out as much as possible and hopefully get out

39:49

of town. And so yeah,

39:51

it just becomes more clear to you what, you

39:53

know, what the path is, you know, what

39:55

what needs to have burst because ultimately

39:58

you just want to be out there rocking, you know, so

40:01

yeah, that was it. It's like, hey, I could play

40:04

there, ye can you hear me? Can

40:07

you hear me? Hello?

40:10

Can you hear me? Yeah? I can. I don't know why

40:12

it keeps cutting out like that, but I guess we haven't

40:14

lost each other fully yet. No, no, no, yeah,

40:16

we're good. Um but yeah, no, it makes

40:18

sense because you're just you know, operating

40:21

off the idea that like, well, this is a fun thing. We're

40:23

just gonna follow it till it's yeah, logical

40:26

end, like whatever that may mean, right.

40:29

I think that I think the thing is is that we

40:31

were I always

40:33

just wanted the romance. I think in the adventure

40:36

of getting on the road with a band. I mean that seemed

40:38

just the the ultimate. It

40:40

was always you know, you were just you

40:43

know, once you started getting into you know what

40:45

music and you are idolizing

40:48

people you know, rock bands or whatever.

40:50

I mean, it just is absolutely so romantic

40:53

and so adventurous that

40:55

that's what you wanted to That's what I wanted to do,

40:57

and I you know, that

41:00

was the focus. It wasn't um that

41:03

man, if I could just get out there on the road,

41:05

then I could be making a bunch of money or something. It

41:07

was just if I could get on the road,

41:09

I could see mountains and the

41:13

Pacific Ocean. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,

41:16

no, that's here. It's funny because that's

41:18

such a huge thing for anybody that doesn't

41:20

live in California or in the West Coast

41:22

in general, where it's like, oh yeah, if I can see

41:24

like the Atlantic and the Pacific with like

41:27

my band, like that's oh my god, I can't even believe

41:29

that. Yeah, it was

41:31

just that was the goal. Yeah, for

41:33

sure. Um, I mean, you want to you want

41:35

to write good songs, and but

41:38

yeah, there's other there's other goals, um.

41:42

And so something I find interesting too

41:45

because this is such a

41:47

thing of the time

41:49

and obviously when bands don't have any

41:51

sort of like career ambitions. You

41:54

know, you guys released two full lengths in pretty

41:56

quick succession, you know, just like

41:58

you know, because whatever, within a

42:00

year and a half you were releasing those and

42:03

you know, whereas bands now like clearly

42:05

have a calculated path of like Okay,

42:07

here's the eighteen to twenty four month album cycle,

42:10

and you know those words didn't exist

42:12

back then. Yeah, um,

42:15

I presume the fact that you guys put

42:17

those out so quickly. Was just the fact that you

42:19

had all of these songs written and there was a lot of creative

42:22

energy and juices flowing where you were like, yeah, we gotta

42:24

get it out there, because yeah, are our our full

42:26

length like our first one like that that's

42:28

you know, that's old now, like we got right, we gotta

42:30

get the new one out. Yeah. We were just

42:32

trying to keep writing and there

42:35

was definitely more ideas and

42:37

we all lived together and we could practice

42:39

three days a week and UM, so

42:42

yeah, I mean we had it and I guess I felt

42:44

like we felt like, you

42:46

know, you just kind of keep producing and

42:50

um, and then you

42:53

know we did. We we felt a little

42:55

like we wanted, you know, once we had got the

42:57

first record out and toured on it,

43:00

you know you do want to just kind of start it over

43:02

again and um as

43:04

soon as possible. So yeah, we were

43:06

just you know, just trying to stay

43:08

prolific, um, just

43:10

keep writing because it was too you

43:13

know, you get you get better as a band, and it just

43:15

becomes more fun to write because you can kind of do

43:17

more stuff and you can you can, um,

43:20

you know, whatever you're hearing you can make real

43:23

sooner. I think sure,

43:26

Yeah, you just want to get it out there because there's

43:28

no like, why would you wait on it, because

43:31

it's like, well, yeah we can just like you know, two or

43:33

more and that's fine. Yeah right, yeah,

43:35

yeah, we we definitely wanted to just keep making

43:37

stuff. Yeah, yeah, that's awesome and we

43:40

yeah, we didn't know anybody's right, you don't

43:42

know. And in fact, right now, I'm kind of like,

43:44

well, this record it actually hasn't

43:46

even I mean, it drops on Friday, for real,

43:48

and I'm already trying to write

43:51

new bits because it

43:53

just seemed like it took so long to get the

43:56

songs together this time that

43:58

you know, and just to kind of get on top of the whole thing.

44:01

I just want to make sure those crank those

44:04

wheels keep turning, you know, totally.

44:06

Yeah, well, especially to when you're in such

44:08

a different station in your life, and said,

44:11

it takes a lot longer to get

44:13

all these things moving in unicity.

44:15

So it's not like, you know, yeah, it's not

44:17

like you have an abundance of time to be like, hey cool,

44:20

just like hang out and drink beer and get Yeah,

44:23

you definitely have to be efficient and thoughtful

44:26

and uh, strategic, really

44:28

you know, which is fun too. I mean that's fun

44:31

to just kind of plan and plan it all out

44:33

to Yeah,

44:35

exactly, you have a structure to it and not just like you're

44:37

not just reactionary, right, something

44:41

that I you know, a threat. I wanted to pull on from kind

44:43

of you know, previous interviews that you've done, because

44:45

I think this doesn't

44:47

get um it's kind of an overarching

44:50

theme, but it doesn't get like spoken about very much

44:52

where you know you've mentioned in previously,

44:55

like the immediacy of this scene is

44:57

kind of what struck you the most, Like once you started

44:59

to you know, really get out there with giants chair and start to

45:01

you know, experience all these bands and to all

45:03

that sort of stuff. Um, you

45:05

know, it talked to me a little bit more about kind of

45:08

you know, I understand what you mean by

45:10

that, but just like you know what it was it the b

45:12

dacy in regards to how

45:14

you know, quickly you could put out music, or like how

45:16

you could book shows, or was it like just basically a

45:18

combination of all of those things. I

45:20

feel like it um

45:23

it has to do with I mean the excitement

45:25

of you're just getting closer and closer

45:28

to the core of where

45:30

the action is um,

45:32

and you know, yeah,

45:35

in the sort of most basic sense,

45:37

it's like, Wow, I'm I'm buying an art

45:39

of a record from the guy who

45:42

is who just who wrote these things,

45:44

you know, and this is so immediate.

45:48

UM, that to me is super exciting

45:51

and UM.

45:53

And then you know you're you

45:56

know, just being as face to face as possible.

45:59

UM was really

46:01

um energizing and

46:05

so so uh.

46:07

I don't know, I mean, it's pretty it seems pretty

46:09

simple. I think that's I'm not sure I can say

46:11

much more about how how cool

46:13

it is. Yeah, I think that's.

46:16

It is something that is so engaging

46:19

when you feel, you

46:21

know, of a certain age

46:23

where it's like you don't feel like you've got many

46:25

choices in life because you're told

46:27

to go to school, go to work or whatever, do

46:29

all these things that are you know, prerequisites of

46:31

you. But then when you're given this sort of

46:34

really open playground

46:36

to be like, oh, yeah, like you can create

46:38

something from nothing and you can book

46:40

the show like that just feels like you

46:43

not even so much from a control perspective, but just

46:45

the idea that you can work

46:48

on something that didn't exist before, Right,

46:51

Yeah, that is true. And yeah, down to

46:53

the artwork, you know that was a That's another thing

46:55

is for me as a visual person,

46:58

um, you know, I

47:01

derive a huge amount of pleasure from

47:04

dreaming up what this thing could look

47:06

like, even you know, let alone,

47:08

you know, even just aside from what it sounds

47:10

like, you know, and the and flyers

47:13

and the whole the whole thing. I just love

47:15

that you you know, at

47:17

this stage. I mean I definitely

47:20

appreciate you know that when

47:23

the labels can do all the stuff

47:25

they can do and make and help you make things

47:27

real. But as far as visualizing, um,

47:31

you know, whether are really or visually

47:34

a thing that was like you said, not, there

47:36

was nothing there before and it just it

47:39

just comes from inside you is you

47:42

know, it's just there's it's

47:45

just magic, you know totally.

47:47

And to the fact that you

47:49

feel like you're part of this this secret society,

47:52

like you know, your your parents and your

47:54

elders don't have any idea of what

47:56

this, you know, whatever, they hear you play in a band

47:58

and you're just like, they don't know what that means, right,

48:02

And so the fact you can just

48:04

exist completely, you know, on

48:06

your own and unencumbered um,

48:09

you know, given some guardrails, but like, yeah,

48:11

you can experiment and be as weird

48:13

as you want. Yeah, and you

48:15

might end up you know, at calling

48:17

them from a pay phone and Los Angeles

48:19

too, like and that

48:21

I just I love that bit too. Wherever,

48:24

whenever we did get on the road, to be able to you

48:26

know, you just felt like you've really done something. You

48:28

were out there, you know, just barely scratching

48:30

by, but you've made it that far

48:33

and to be able to call your mom from the

48:35

road is always a thrill totally.

48:37

Yeah, just just a big I

48:40

bet you never thought I'd be here with my dumb band. Yeah,

48:43

that's right with all this noise. Uh.

48:46

Something that always truck me about giants here too was the

48:49

you know, I guess, the aesthetic of it. I mean, especially with your

48:51

first two records. Um, it

48:53

was just so um I

48:55

mean, for lack of a better term, just like modern

48:58

art stuff where it was like very

49:00

simple, very plain, but

49:02

you know delivered the I

49:04

guess impression, uh that this

49:07

was something that was very you know, thoughtful

49:09

and thought out as it was to you know, maybe

49:11

other things that were obviously very sort of um,

49:14

you know, hand to mouth cut and paste, not like they

49:16

looked bad, but yeah, yeah, it

49:18

definitely was a very distinct difference

49:20

that I noticed between you guys and you know,

49:22

other your other contemporaries. I presume

49:25

that was a very deliberate thing on you guys part. Yeah.

49:28

I was working at a print shop and I UM

49:30

could print, and by then I was also

49:32

starting to um

49:35

UM. I was into well. So

49:38

one of our roommates was Brady from Hammer

49:41

Press, and so we had been from

49:43

the get go pretty involved

49:45

with UH or

49:47

at least, you know, we had access to

49:50

that sort of like letter press

49:52

and UM and a sensibility

49:55

of UM, you know, materials

49:57

and UM these things. So we

50:00

we wanted we wanted to make something

50:02

that was special and that was kind

50:04

of happening, not just for us here, but you

50:06

know, it just seemed like UM

50:08

at at that moment, with independent

50:11

record labels and stuff,

50:13

I felt like people were trying to make something extra

50:17

cool or special or tactile, and

50:20

and for me, as a I

50:23

guess a graphic designer, I just

50:25

wanted I was trying to peel back all the

50:27

layers and just get to these the bare

50:30

essentials of a thing. UM.

50:33

I didn't want to make stuff that was representational

50:36

um and in fact that it's in the lyrics too.

50:38

I think I didn't want um at least

50:40

the first record. It's pretty obtuse,

50:43

and I just was kind

50:45

of it was a um,

50:49

almost random imagery sometimes and it was

50:51

things that I felt somehow attracted

50:53

to, you know, words, but

50:57

it was really just kind of putting them together

50:59

and see what shapes they would

51:01

make, almost and and

51:03

so I was you know, I really

51:06

loved the idea of pairing things down

51:08

and getting it to this sort of almost mysterious

51:11

um uh

51:13

minimalism.

51:15

Yeah. So that's you know, that was

51:18

kind of always a thing, except for the

51:20

first seven inch we did, which we were definitely

51:22

in the old photos

51:25

with, which was fun and I just loved

51:27

it from the you know, the difference between

51:29

the Hot Boy seven inch and the and

51:32

the first record it's sort

51:34

of eons, you

51:36

know, even though it was about a you know, two

51:39

years maybe or something. Sure, Yeah,

51:41

yeah, but yeah, it's so much changes, and especially

51:43

to once you start to add all these other influences

51:45

into your life and start to you know, get

51:47

a broader scope of things, you're like, oh yeah, actually

51:50

I like that more than I like you know, just choosing

51:52

a stock photo out of a you know, encyclopedia

51:54

or whatever. Right, yes, yeah, um.

51:58

And so you know when you did

52:01

you like, I guess touring in general,

52:04

um, you know, I know that there's

52:06

that sense of adventure and like you said that,

52:08

you know, calling your mom from a pay phone in l A. Yeah,

52:10

like there's those those moments. Was there any I

52:13

guess kind of didn't wear on you at all?

52:15

Did you? Or did you just kind of enjoy

52:17

it in general? Oh? My gosh, I enjoy it

52:19

so much. I mean, it's

52:22

just still it's the it's

52:25

just like dreaming yourself on vacation in a way.

52:27

I mean, it is a lot of work and you're you

52:29

know, you're on a schedule and stuff, but um,

52:32

I can't you know. It's kind of the

52:34

the adage of, um, a

52:36

bad day on the road is better

52:39

than good day

52:41

to work, you know. Um.

52:43

But you know the thing that we

52:47

we were booking tours with um,

52:49

you know, on a phone with an aatlas and

52:52

a mail box, you know, and it

52:54

was before email and everything, and

52:57

um, so that was a grind

52:59

and that was that was a little hard because you're just

53:01

constantly you know, you

53:04

literally leave messages

53:06

every day and hope someone gets back,

53:08

and you just have to be the most

53:10

obnoxious person of the hundred

53:13

that they're getting calls from.

53:15

And that was kind of you know, you're just cold selling

53:17

yourself when no one's heard of you, and

53:20

that's kind of a drag. But at the same time,

53:22

when you get you know, one show

53:24

comes through, for all that work, it's totally

53:26

worth it. And um,

53:28

you just you know, you're just a little bit farther

53:30

down the road and so I I

53:32

love it. I love the road. Yeah,

53:35

no, that's really cool. And you

53:37

know, since Giant Chair was such a

53:39

you know quick you know what I mean, the

53:42

duration of the band was one like maybe four

53:44

or five years or am I miss? Yeah yeah yeah,

53:46

it was about um yeah

53:49

it was four probably four or five

53:51

yeah, sure, um. And

53:53

so you know, as things started to you

53:55

know, come to kind of uh I

53:57

guess quote unquote logical end as far as

54:00

like, okay, you know, done all that we can do with

54:02

this, um you um,

54:05

you know you obviously still went on

54:07

to you know, create music with your you know,

54:09

Rex Hobart and all that sort of stuff.

54:11

Um, you know, did you have I guess a difficulty

54:14

sort of getting out of giants

54:16

chair in regards to like, you know, hey, I'm Scott from

54:18

Giant's chair. Like people obviously wrap

54:20

up. And I'm not saying like, you know, you're egotistical,

54:23

but like, you know, you wrap up like that's why

54:25

people know you. Um, so, was there any

54:27

kind of that. I wouldn't

54:29

even call it identity crisis, but that's sort of

54:32

like transition. Um, you know, is that difficult

54:34

for you? Um?

54:36

It was fun. It wasn't It wasn't

54:38

difficult. It was a totally different,

54:42

you know, a totally different way of approaching

54:44

music, and it

54:47

was, Uh,

54:49

it was just fun because you know, I had

54:51

a I had a stage name, I

54:54

had costume, I had all

54:56

this insulation, so to speak, and

54:59

it was just very liberating to kind

55:01

of just say, hey, I can now

55:04

I'm going to write very straightforward

55:07

country songs for God's sakes,

55:09

and um, you know,

55:12

dress up in this old

55:14

sparkly suit and be a clown, you

55:16

know, but it's a sad clown. And

55:19

um, it was not. It wasn't hard

55:22

for me. I think I'm

55:24

sure that a lot of anybody

55:26

who cared, If

55:29

anybody cared, really they were

55:31

maybe shocked or jarred by it, but at the same

55:34

time it was so absurd that

55:36

you know, even our you know, hardest

55:39

rock and friends seemed to appreciate

55:42

that. It was just it

55:44

was fun. You know. That was another that was

55:46

part of it. I really wanted to have fun. I was

55:49

kind of at the moment tired

55:51

of being a trying to be a serious

55:53

rocker. Not that there wasn't a lot of laughter around

55:56

in and around the band, I mean, we're all a bunch of

55:58

goofballs, but um,

56:00

but it was really fun to sort of take it to that

56:03

next ridiculousness.

56:06

Sure you be able to let your hair down and obviously

56:08

something completely different than what previously

56:11

were. Yeah, it was. It was really

56:13

fun and still is. I mean I still

56:15

I still do that. You know, we once

56:18

a month at least. It's just kind

56:20

of like you know, just

56:23

going and you know, taking a walk through the country.

56:25

Sure, that's

56:28

cool, and I'm sure it's interesting for

56:30

you to you know, get feedback

56:32

in regards to you know, these sort of interviews

56:34

and obviously the press cycle you're doing about the new record.

56:37

Um, you know, I

56:40

guess since you've you know, quote

56:42

unquote come back as far as releasing new music

56:44

and the idea that you're you know, you're going to

56:47

be you know, active and playing shows here and

56:49

there. Um, what's

56:51

kind of been, you know, a surprising element

56:53

that you might not have considered before you started

56:55

to you know, put yourself out there and work with Spartan Records

56:57

and do all that sort of stuff. Right, um

57:02

uh, let's see, will it

57:06

would be? What's surprising? Well, I

57:08

guess I was surprised in a way of just

57:11

the writing process that how um,

57:14

how fast the music

57:16

came, the guitar parts and stuff. Because

57:19

before when we kind of closed

57:22

closed the doors um in ninety

57:24

seven, it was very

57:27

literally you know that that just

57:29

the ideas weren't coming. I guess we I

57:31

personally as a key member,

57:34

didn't, you know, I just wasn't feeling it. I

57:36

just didn't have any ideas.

57:38

I felt like I stretched my fingers

57:40

as far as I could at that moment. And then

57:43

so it was interesting to me whenever we decided

57:46

we were gonna start writing this stuff that how I

57:49

mean, I guess it doesn't didn't really surprise me because

57:51

it it maybe in a way had been pent up,

57:54

you know, I've been I'd done some things, but it

57:56

hadn't really um been

57:59

trying to come up with ten or

58:01

twelve new rock riffs.

58:04

UM. But anyway,

58:06

that came pretty quick. Uh.

58:08

And I've written about this too,

58:11

that the words you know, that that was a little

58:13

hard, more difficult. I felt

58:15

like to kind of come

58:17

back from the very

58:20

straightforward style of writing, you

58:22

know, five albums of country songs in

58:24

twenty years. Um.

58:27

But ultimately I felt like it was you

58:30

know, it was a cool

58:33

um process of

58:35

you know, sort of the way I used to do things, where I would

58:37

just basically just

58:40

drivel on sheet

58:42

after sheet of paper and then kind of go back through

58:44

and say, oh, that's kind of an interesting um

58:47

image or idea or thought.

58:50

UM. So those different

58:53

things were a little surprising.

58:55

But then um,

58:59

and it was surprising of how long it actually

59:01

did take and how many whatever

59:03

you can only get together once a week versus

59:06

three times a week, how much longer it can take

59:09

stuff. So I guess we figured it would

59:11

happen, we would be done sooner

59:14

than it than three

59:16

years I'm

59:19

trying to think about. But just like the

59:22

whole label thing, I mean, we were

59:24

surprised that someone wanted

59:26

to help us because

59:29

we've figured all we could really do

59:32

maybe is come up with some songs

59:34

and press a record on our own if we

59:36

could probably you know, scrape together enough money.

59:39

Um. And so

59:41

it was surprising in a

59:43

way for us that someone

59:46

was willing to help us make that

59:48

happen. You want to pay to pressor record?

59:51

Are you sure? Right? Yeah, that's right, you

59:53

know. I mean we definitely had some moments

59:55

where I was like, listen, you have to really

59:58

know. I just want to say this again. We not We're

1:00:00

not going to be on the road really supporting

1:00:03

this for months or weeks even

1:00:05

at a time. I mean, we will definitely try to do

1:00:07

whatever we can, and we do love to get

1:00:09

out and play, but it's just you

1:00:11

know, well, let's be we have to be very realistic before

1:00:13

you before you decide you

1:00:15

really want to get in with this. So

1:00:18

that was cool and it's surprising

1:00:20

too. I mean, how many people you know remember

1:00:23

us at all? You know, we just kind of where, you

1:00:26

know, we figured, you

1:00:28

know, when you're out there and you're you

1:00:30

know, you do two tours and no one really knows

1:00:32

who you are at all. Um,

1:00:34

twenty years ago, you're playing to your

1:00:37

you know, your friends in the band and

1:00:39

um, and you know, maybe

1:00:42

five people or six or something

1:00:44

sometimes maybe you know, occasionally a

1:00:46

couple of places that would be a big room. But

1:00:49

um, but then to think, you know, then

1:00:51

this many years later, to think that people

1:00:54

that something you did was maybe

1:00:56

memorable or people still can

1:00:59

get some think from those early records

1:01:01

is pretty exciting and surprising.

1:01:04

Totally. Yeah, you're like, no, no one should have sensibly

1:01:06

care about what we do anymore. Right, Yeah,

1:01:08

You're like, there's there's plenty of other things to occupy your time

1:01:10

with. Why are you caring about giants? Chair? Right? The

1:01:15

last thing it would hit I was like, you know, so what is your

1:01:18

I guess quote unquote real life look like like you

1:01:20

mentioned that you're you know, you build uh sis

1:01:23

and props and what have you for children's theater,

1:01:25

um, you know, and so I presume

1:01:28

that you have been doing that for quite some time,

1:01:30

you know, basically balancing all of

1:01:32

the musical projects and then you know, doing

1:01:34

this. Yeah it's yeah, I

1:01:36

kind of backed into it. Um,

1:01:39

you know, I was uh

1:01:43

not that you ask how I got there? No I

1:01:45

did. I'll take it. I'll take

1:01:47

it. Um. Yeah, I was. It's

1:01:49

funny because we were my wife was in grad

1:01:51

school and Buffalo, and by this time the country

1:01:53

band hadn't um. We were kind of starting

1:01:55

to you know, get back to real

1:01:58

life too. We had done that by then, I

1:02:00

think, uh

1:02:02

three records and for

1:02:05

Bloodshot records, and we were you know, been toured

1:02:07

on all those and then um,

1:02:09

we were kind of getting back to your life. My wife and I had

1:02:11

moved to Buffalo, New York to for her

1:02:13

to be in grad school. So we were

1:02:15

there for a couple of years and I

1:02:18

was kind of just picking up

1:02:20

gig work here and there with you know, whatever odd

1:02:23

jobs or anything. And I had a band

1:02:25

up there and one of the um

1:02:28

well, so for first we were having a Halloween party

1:02:30

and we lived in this house and there was an apartment

1:02:33

that an old dilapidated

1:02:35

apartment in the attic that they

1:02:37

used to rent out at some point, but because of fire

1:02:39

codes, they couldn't do that anymore, and they had just had

1:02:42

given us the key. My wife and I had

1:02:44

to you know, to use it for storage or whatever. And

1:02:46

we were having a Halloween party. So I decided

1:02:48

to do a haunted house up there

1:02:50

for this party. And I just got absolutely

1:02:53

obsessed with it, and I just decided I wanted

1:02:55

to make fake stuff, and um,

1:02:57

you know, because I I've always been kind of craft

1:03:00

year you know, could, like I said, paint

1:03:02

or draw or build things,

1:03:04

weird things, and so um

1:03:07

we I got so

1:03:09

into that. And I had a friend in a band and

1:03:12

one of my country bands in Buffalo

1:03:14

who sometimes helped turn theaters

1:03:17

around between productions,

1:03:19

and so I kind of got my foot in the door

1:03:21

that way. And then and then we ended up so

1:03:24

I did as much of that as I could find, and then we

1:03:26

moved out to Santa Fe for a year when she

1:03:28

she got had an internship out there,

1:03:31

and um

1:03:33

and I got you know, I was working at a

1:03:36

community theater in Santa

1:03:38

Fe for that year, and then

1:03:40

we ultimately came back to Kansas City and I just

1:03:42

kind of cold dropped a um

1:03:45

a resume around and had just

1:03:47

enough experience to to get called

1:03:49

by this theater that I've been at for now twelve

1:03:51

years. And it's been a really fun ride and we

1:03:54

do a lot of really cool work. It's kind of a um,

1:03:58

I guess, edge attainment type place,

1:04:01

so we do we do a lot of um

1:04:05

literature based or civil rights

1:04:07

things. Um, not all of it. I mean, like right

1:04:09

now we have Charlie Brown Christmas up, so we do some

1:04:11

fun stuff too, if you if

1:04:14

you call Charlie Brown Christmas fun. Um,

1:04:16

some people do, some people don't. Should we do? He's

1:04:20

he's pretty funny. Um.

1:04:22

So anyway, that's how I got in theater, and

1:04:24

that's um what my day job

1:04:27

is, you know, just kind of and I maintain the facility.

1:04:29

Some so kind of a handyman.

1:04:31

They're so to speak, um, jack

1:04:34

of all trades, yep, jack of

1:04:36

all trades. Master, welcome

1:04:39

to everybody that is involved in independent music.

1:04:41

You're like, just do one thing. I'll just do

1:04:43

a bunch of things. Okay, it's

1:04:45

exactly right. It's so ridiculous,

1:04:48

but it's fun. It keeps you thinking, yeah,

1:04:50

head scratching it totally does it, totally

1:04:52

does well. Scott, thank you so much for

1:04:54

hanging out, dude. This was super fun and I really appreciate you

1:04:56

let me pick around your life. I mean, I appreciate

1:04:59

it, Ray, and thanks some really good questions and the good

1:05:01

conversation. Boom, there we go.

1:05:03

That was Scott. I really appreciate that

1:05:06

interview and I also appreciate his publicist

1:05:08

Mike for hooking it up. Um. I just always like it

1:05:10

when when friends are able to make the connection for you,

1:05:12

you know. So thank you very much, Mike, Thank you very much, Scott.

1:05:15

And next week we have Ronan Kaufman.

1:05:17

He is the vocalist from Zombie Apocalypse

1:05:19

and he also played in a band called Trial Fail Try

1:05:22

Failed Try. And he also was

1:05:24

a host of a very influential podcast

1:05:26

to me personally called Issue Oriented.

1:05:28

It was a short lived thing, you know. I mean he did it

1:05:30

for about maybe two years, I want to say, and you

1:05:32

know, forty or fifty episodes, but this was

1:05:35

like at the dawn of podcasts as

1:05:37

far as I want to say, gosh, it was like

1:05:39

maybe two thousand, maybe

1:05:42

two thousand six, two seven somewhere

1:05:44

around there. But uh yeah, Ronan

1:05:47

is a very good friend and I hadn't

1:05:49

spoken to him in quite some time, so we were able to make this

1:05:51

happen. So that's what I got. Next week, it's it's

1:05:53

it's a fun one. So until then, please

1:05:56

be safe, everybody. Hey

1:06:00

Miles, it's Jack from

1:06:02

work. Yes, Hi, did you know that we

1:06:04

host a daily news and culture podcast

1:06:07

where people can go to get caught up what

1:06:09

is happening? Are you? Yes? Are you

1:06:11

confused about that? You're talking about the Daily's I

1:06:13

guess should make sure you knew and

1:06:16

that everybody knew that you could listen

1:06:18

to us every day, twice a

1:06:20

day talk about what is happening

1:06:22

and they could learn everything without

1:06:25

feeling the life drained

1:06:27

from their soul. Yeah. I think at

1:06:29

the Daily Zeitgeist do we like to give people a

1:06:31

balance of just enough news that they feel

1:06:34

informed and just enough laughs

1:06:36

that they're not overwhelmed. I can have a decent day

1:06:38

after listening. So guys, listen to The Daily

1:06:40

Zeitgeist on the I Heart radio app, Apple

1:06:43

podcast, or wherever fine podcasts

1:06:45

are given away for free