0:02

This is the jobb or Job Podcast Network.

0:08

Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of

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one hundred Words or Less the podcast.

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I'm your host, Ray Arkans. Thank you very much for

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joining us on another beautiful episode.

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Hopefully you're having a good day with whatever

0:20

it is you're doing. I'm, you

0:22

know, winding up my work day here at a

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new job, which I've told you about,

0:27

and I'm I'm feeling much better about it. I know, earlier

0:30

on like maybe about a month or so ago, I

0:32

was expressing some some anxiety

0:35

on my end that I was regretting

0:37

my decision to leave one job and do the

0:40

job that I'm doing now. But it's it's

0:42

it's coming to fruition. Now, I'm feeling

0:44

more confident. I'm liking everything,

0:46

and it it feels good, you know, like to

0:49

to be able to make a decision,

0:51

try it out and then be like, oh, that

0:54

that was the right move. It feels good.

0:56

But anyways, the guest this

0:58

week, it's a very a special one because

1:00

it's a close friend of mine. We've

1:03

been looking to have on the show for quite some time and

1:06

frankly, she doesn't do interviews. She

1:08

is the person who is setting up interviews. This

1:10

is my good friend Stephanie Marlow.

1:13

She runs a publicity company

1:15

out of her own name, Stephie Marlow

1:17

PR, and she does

1:20

PR for basically every

1:22

band you've probably listened to at some point

1:24

in the past ten years, from

1:27

Deaf Heaven to uh, you know,

1:29

Have Hearts like whatever. We get really

1:31

really deep into who she's worked with in

1:33

the past, but she has a very very

1:36

interesting history. She's worked at Victory

1:38

Records, she's done stuff with Bridge nine,

1:40

and now she does her own PR firm, like

1:42

I mentioned, and she keeps it

1:45

real. She's helped me out a lot

1:47

in the past. She did PR

1:49

for a festival that I used to do with Joey

1:53

called Sound and Fury, and I don't know,

1:55

just a great human being and she has

1:57

so many cool insights to share and it's

1:59

exactly why she's on the show. So

2:02

that's yes, it gives me all the warms

2:04

and fuzzies when I'm able to bring friends

2:06

on and share their wisdom

2:09

with you, because after all, I know, that's

2:11

what a lot of feedback I get from people, is

2:13

that they enjoy when I'm having

2:16

these people who are really

2:18

really good at their jobs and like how they got started

2:21

and kind of seeing a roadmap, because

2:23

I mean, after all, none of us really know how

2:25

to get to our destination.

2:28

You know, when you're like six seventeen years

2:30

old, you're like, oh, I want to work at a record label. I want to

2:32

do that. You have no idea how to

2:34

actually accomplish those goals, so hearing

2:36

how people do it kind of gets your brain

2:39

ticket gets you moving in the right direction.

2:41

So, um, I am

2:43

just getting over some horrific food

2:45

poisoning. So I apologize if I'm setting a little

2:48

less energetic or stuffy or whatever, but

2:50

I don't know. I've got a bad batch of beans and

2:52

it it ruined me. And uh,

2:54

I was out of commission for what it felt like

2:57

a month, but it was only a week. So

3:00

I'm feeling better, and um, yeah,

3:02

without further delay,

3:04

let's talk to Stephanie and I will talk

3:06

to you after the episode is over. I

3:18

usually start these things off, which is my personal

3:20

entry point to kind of you know you and everything

3:23

that you are as a human being and professionally

3:25

and everything. So I mean, obviously

3:27

Matt Moody, your old roommate slash

3:30

my old bandmate, was our introduction

3:32

point, but I can't recall. I think it

3:34

was when we came through with Makotos the first

3:36

time that we really kind of spent time together, because

3:38

I met you at fests I think in the past

3:41

Resort a century, right, Yeah, we

3:43

hung out. I think like you and

3:45

I are always like one degree of separation from each

3:47

other. Like I want to see the

3:49

first time we met. Maybe was it like a metal

3:52

fest? Yeah,

3:54

yeah, that's right, that's right in New Jersey. Maybe

3:57

I don't even in Massachusetts.

4:00

I don't know, right or like or like, uh,

4:02

I definitely remember because obviously you were you were good

4:04

friends with one of my old co workers

4:06

to Stacy who who

4:09

Uh that that's where I think I first met

4:11

you. So it's like yeah, early two thousand's um,

4:14

but it was it was always one of those things

4:16

where you, uh, you know, I'm

4:18

gonna you know, blow smoke up your ass right now, so just

4:21

be prepared. But the you always

4:23

struck me as a you know, very warm and accommodating

4:25

person in general. Um

4:28

and like not even particularly like towards

4:30

me, but just kind of in general. Um,

4:32

is this something that like you've noticed in yourself,

4:34

Like I don't know, it's it's just a very um I

4:37

don't want to say it's like inherently unique in you.

4:39

But at the same time, it's like not everybody

4:41

needs to be like warm. I

4:44

guess like you could be nice, but there's that extra

4:46

element of being warm. So I don't know if that's something

4:48

you've noticed in yourself or that's just where

4:50

does that come from? I appreciate that. Um,

4:52

you know, that's I do agree with you

4:55

that like warmth isn't

4:57

uh something that's a characteristic that's

4:59

mess sarily typical of a lot of people that work

5:01

in our industry. Um.

5:04

That being said, I mean, I'm from the Midwest. We're

5:06

generally warm people. You know, my

5:08

parents are really nice and and you

5:10

know, cool and friendly. And I think

5:12

that was just a trade that was you

5:15

know, I was exposed to at a very young age and just

5:17

you know, I like, I like people.

5:19

I wouldn't do I wouldn't be able to do my job if I didn't like

5:21

people and being around people. So it's not it's

5:23

not a fake thing. It definitely comes from a very

5:25

genuine place. Yeah, because I think it's

5:27

very I mean, I was going to address this a little bit later

5:30

on, but I think the because the notion obviously

5:32

of sort of pr in general, and

5:34

you know, you could obviously lump in the music industry as

5:37

a whole as well. Is the notion that you

5:39

have to be you know, the whole concept of networking

5:41

and schmoozing, and like, you

5:43

know, I know that gives people like you and myself

5:45

like just such gross vibes.

5:48

But it's like it almost seems part

5:50

and parcel where it's like you feel like you have to do

5:52

that. But then, like you said, kind of the

5:54

core of it is just the you get to care about a

5:56

person, of course, um in

5:58

one of the I mean, I remember when I first got started

6:00

working in music, one of the best pieces of

6:02

advice that I was ever given was being

6:05

nice to everyone all the time, um,

6:07

because it's like you never know, like every

6:09

everyone that I come across, everyone that I meet through

6:12

work and even beyond. It's like, I'm nice to everyone

6:14

because like ten years from now,

6:17

who knows where I'm going to be or where they're going to be,

6:19

and if we still have a working relationship together, and it's

6:21

like if you're ad dick to someone off the bat, they're going to remember

6:23

that, you know, so it's like, I

6:25

don't know, I think it goes. Being

6:27

nice to people goes a lot further than you know, just

6:30

surface level like pleasantries, you know, right,

6:32

Like, I definitely I see

6:35

a common symptom of people kind

6:37

of treating everybody exactly the same, because

6:39

I think there's a difference between like being nice everybody

6:41

and then treating everybody like your

6:43

best friend, like hey buddy,

6:45

like that whole just like whoa dude,

6:47

Like I don't need all of that like coming

6:50

from you right now, Like you can treat me like a normal human

6:52

being and not just this, you know, this facade of

6:54

like I'm the nicest person of all time. Yeah,

6:59

it doesn't slime ball like

7:01

yeah, hey we're best friends. Let's sucking

7:03

shake hands, you know, Like yeah,

7:08

um so yeah, look like you mentioned you were born

7:10

and raised in the Midwest. Where in particular was it in the Chicago

7:12

area or where did you come up in the Chicago

7:14

area? So my parents are both from Chicago. Moved

7:17

to the suburbs when I was a kid, very you

7:19

know, normal boring whatever.

7:21

As soon as I turned eighteen, though, I got the hell out of

7:23

the suburbs moved back to the city

7:26

um, just being Chicago and

7:28

then had been there kind of

7:30

ever since. I've moved around a little bit, as

7:32

you know. But um, but yeah, most of my life

7:35

has been spent in Chicago. I love being here.

7:37

Um, my family's here. It's really nice being

7:40

um kind of centrally located in the United

7:42

States, I think because I go to New York

7:44

often, I go to Los Angeles often, I go to

7:46

Boston often. And it's like a flight

7:49

from Chicago to those places is like two

7:51

or three hours, So it's not you know, it's not like

7:53

a full day of traveling. I'm not you

7:55

know, sitting on an airplane for five

7:57

hours. I'm able to get where I need to go, easy,

8:00

leading quickly. And it's just it's a good place

8:02

to live. I think it's a it's a hub. It

8:04

is a hub. And

8:06

so what you have, correct,

8:09

you have a younger sister. Correct or you

8:12

I have a younger sister and an older sister. Okay,

8:14

so you're the middle child. Yes, you

8:16

had to you had to get your parents

8:19

attention. Um by acting out.

8:22

I was, like I said, my like it

8:25

was my childhood was really like normal and kind

8:27

of boring. I've never really acted out I

8:29

just I don't know. I guess, Yeah,

8:33

I'm not. I guess I'm not a typical middle child,

8:36

like yeah whenever I'm here, you know. Sure.

8:38

Um, and what were you what were your parents doing at the time, as you

8:41

were kind of you know, being raised professionally.

8:44

Um, my dad was, Um,

8:46

he recently retired, but he was like a shipping

8:48

and logistics coordinator for a trucking company.

8:51

Um, nothing super cool or interesting.

8:54

And my mom was stay at home mom, got

8:56

it. So she had well yeah, obviously she had her

8:58

hands full with three girls running around

9:00

the house. Yeah, that's enough to make anyone.

9:03

Yeah, so your

9:06

your dad was completely outnumbered. Oh

9:08

yeah, so it still is. He has grandkids, granddaughters,

9:11

you know, no not no men in side except for his

9:13

son in law, sons in law. That's

9:16

that's funny. That's always Ah, it's an interesting

9:19

vibe how that um tends to I've

9:21

noticed and other friends that have that sort of

9:23

makeup of, you know, completely

9:25

surrounded by women. It totally has

9:27

a tendency to um no matter

9:30

what that father's upbringing was

9:32

like to soften them, you know, to be to

9:35

be the point where it's like they obviously are more

9:37

kind of in tune to feelings

9:39

or emotions in some ways that maybe, you

9:42

know, other people of that same generation aren't. Oh

9:44

god completely. He's

9:48

like I could either be on my island and just kind of be stoic,

9:51

or like I can get in the fray. Yeah.

9:55

And so you, I mean, you describe your your upbringing

9:58

as very kind of I guess

10:00

typical, but um in suburban. But

10:02

what kind of person did you find yourself as you started to

10:05

you know, get into high school and start to develop kind

10:07

of your own identities and interest and everything like that,

10:09

Like were you you know, were you into sports or where

10:11

you basically was music kind of your thing? Where did

10:13

you find yourself? Yeah, you know, honestly

10:15

in music. Um, its kind

10:17

of was always my thing. Like, um,

10:21

I guess I got an interest in like

10:24

subculture, if you will, like my

10:26

probably freshman sophomore No, I'm sorry,

10:28

I was like eighth grade, started

10:30

like you know, listening to the Cure, and

10:32

like, I don't know, I was just immediately

10:35

you know, attracted to kind of subculture

10:37

and then started getting into like punk

10:39

when I was in high school, like freshman sophomore

10:42

year, and like, I guess my

10:44

form of rebellion was that, like you know, once school

10:47

nights, my parents didn't want me to to go

10:49

to shows and whatnot, so I would like, you

10:51

know, sneak out and like go to the Fireside Bowl

10:53

and go see punk bands. And I

10:55

would come home super late, like just like reaking

10:57

of like cigarettes because that's when you could smoke inside. My

11:00

had to know that I wasn't out like studying but whatever.

11:03

Um but yeah, I was just kind of immediately

11:05

drawn to it, and music became like an honest

11:07

to god passion um

11:10

as. I'm sure it's not unique

11:12

to me, but you know, once I was introduced to it,

11:14

I kind of like I

11:16

had to dig and like I wanted to find out everything

11:19

that I could about these bands and like these record

11:21

labels, and I would like you know, handwrite letters

11:23

and get stickers and catalogs

11:26

and order ship and like it just it became kind

11:28

of like more than a hobby. It was like

11:30

not like an obsession, but kind of an obsession. It's

11:32

just like I wanted to find out everything that I could, and I did,

11:35

and the more I got into it, the more I loved it. And

11:38

I guess here I am now my

11:41

career what was your like who

11:43

was kind of exposing you to that stuff? Like, you know, was

11:45

it your older sibling or was it just kind of your friends

11:47

around you? Um? Both. I guess

11:49

like my you know, my older sister, she's

11:52

two years older than me. Her friends,

11:54

like I would kind of tag along with them, but I was, you

11:56

know, like the freshman, like loser kid,

11:59

but some of her friends were like surface

12:01

level into um

12:03

like punk and whatnot. And then you

12:05

know, it just became like obviously,

12:08

you know, you go to you go to school and you're wearing a T shirt, especially

12:10

at this time, you know, and then there's some kid

12:12

who's like, oh, holy sh it, I've heard of that band, Like let's

12:14

let's talk. And then you know, you just kind of network

12:17

that way. And then I kind of had

12:19

assembled a group of friends where we

12:21

all you know, lived in neighboring

12:23

suburbs and we would all like borrow our

12:25

parents cars and drive to shows and we

12:28

weren't supposed to and then try to get home before curfew

12:30

and yeah,

12:32

we're I always find it funny

12:35

because the you know, suburban

12:37

upbringing in regards to like, you know, curfews

12:39

and like how you how you basically tried

12:42

to like get the most out

12:44

of whatever that curfew. Maybe, so say it's

12:46

eleven, obviously you're going to the show

12:48

until you know when you're

12:50

like, I gotta go right now in order to get home by eleven.

12:53

Yeah. Yeah, lots

12:55

of nights like that recom home. My parents were just

12:57

waiting up for me. Now that I mean everyone,

13:00

everyone being like my my siblings, my parents.

13:02

Now I think it's hilarious because it's something that I've literally

13:04

built my career off of. Um, But at

13:06

the time, it was you know, lots

13:09

of like, yeah, our project

13:11

went late, and um, sorry my friend's

13:13

mom their dogs got set

13:15

on fire. And now I'm you know, yeah,

13:18

what what excuses can I come up with on

13:20

the drive over there? Of course?

13:22

Yeah? So did you uh did

13:25

you focus on school with school like interesting

13:27

to you as far as learning or was it kind of like I just can't

13:29

wait to get out of here. I love school. Um,

13:31

I still love school, which which

13:34

is stared and laym, I guess. But I was always a

13:36

really good student, um, you know,

13:38

like honorable and I

13:41

did really well, so my parents couldn't really like

13:43

get on my case too much because I was you know, I

13:45

had really good grades and whatnot. So, um,

13:48

I love school. Um, Like I said, I still I

13:51

still like school. Um.

13:53

I take extracurricular classes here and there,

13:55

like foreign language and whatnot. It's just I

13:57

don't know, I think it's fun. I like learning. I was really

14:00

a a like in like

14:02

language and communication and stuff. Again,

14:04

things that I use every

14:06

day with my job. So it's a good thing I was going to right.

14:09

Yeah, So so you weren't the math

14:11

and science person. You were definitely more so the

14:13

the I guess lack of the term creative arts.

14:16

Yes, absolutely got it. Um.

14:19

The and if the

14:23

once you started to obviously consume this this

14:25

subculture and start to go to shows and start to

14:27

notice, um, all of the things

14:30

that happened within the scene and stuff like that. Um,

14:33

was it one of those things like obviously it's intimidating

14:35

for anybody of any age to kind of start going to

14:37

shows, but then obviously you being a female

14:40

and kind of like, oh, like there's a lot of dudes

14:42

here, like you know, was there any any semblance

14:44

of that thought process going through your head where it was

14:46

just like, oh, I seem to be in the minority when

14:48

I'm going to these shows. Yeah,

14:50

you know, I mean, I guess it was something

14:52

I noticed, but it was something I just never

14:54

cared about, and I still don't care about. I actually

14:57

get asked kind of often, um,

14:59

you know, like what's the like being a woman working

15:01

in music and just that and the other thing, And it's

15:03

like, I actually don't even notice. I've never

15:05

experienced anything negative. I've

15:07

never necessarily felt out of place or weird.

15:10

I've never personally experienced any

15:12

kind of like sexism in that regard.

15:14

Um. And when I was younger, I just thought I

15:17

was super cool, like super cool girl,

15:19

you know. Yeah, but

15:21

you definitely, I mean, just knowing you

15:23

as well as I do, you definitely give off

15:26

a vibe where it's like you you can not

15:28

only whatever hang with the dudes, but

15:30

then you can obviously, you know, you are a female,

15:32

and you can hang out with your female friends like they're

15:35

whereas obviously there are some

15:38

females that it's like it's harder to kind of,

15:40

you know, be with the guys and be like, oh, I don't

15:42

I don't know, I don't really have anything

15:44

to talk to them about beyond just this one

15:46

particular band or whatever the case may be, but it seems

15:48

like you could you could kind of flip between the two and

15:50

it was relatively easy for you to do that, oh

15:53

for sure. And actually, like the coolest part

15:55

of it is is from that

15:57

I met several or

16:00

many other like like like minded women

16:02

like myself who felt the same way, and through

16:04

that have made some of my best the best friends of my whole

16:07

life, you know, girlfriends. That is yeah,

16:10

No, it's cool, it's awesome. Yeah,

16:13

because I it's always easy

16:15

to look at the the idea of

16:18

or whatever the common um

16:21

I'm trying to think of the appropriate word where

16:23

it's like, oh, you're a girl going to a show, it's

16:25

like, oh, your your boyfriend must be playing and like

16:28

that that whole because

16:30

it's like, I mean, it's it's so funny where it's

16:32

just like whatever, you know, when I was fifteen that I

16:35

noticed that being a thing, um, and

16:37

then it it's still permeates, you know,

16:39

some twenty odd years later, where it's just like, oh,

16:41

the only reason that girl can attend to show is like if they're

16:43

you know, significant other is there and or playing,

16:45

It's like they could probably be into that music as

16:48

well, right of course, Yeah, I mean

16:50

anytime. I mean, I was called bullshit on that if

16:52

it was like, oh is you word running here? It's like, no,

16:54

it's fine. I you know, I'm legitimately into

16:56

this stuff and just kind of like brush it

16:58

off. It's just I don't know, it's almost like a

17:00

waste of breath at that point, right right,

17:03

It's yeah, you're like you don't even want to address it because

17:05

it's just like what it doesn't even need to

17:07

be addressed, opinion at least,

17:09

it's a waste of your time. Yeah. Um.

17:11

And so then as you started to graduate, you know,

17:13

have your eyes set on you know, graduation

17:16

and start to look for career options

17:18

and that sort of stuff. Where did you find yourself gravitating

17:21

towards or was it the idea of, like, I want to work with

17:23

music in some capacity. I had no idea.

17:25

So I graduated high school. Um, I

17:27

went to community college for two years. Um.

17:30

Like I said, I had like moved from the suburbs

17:33

into the city because I wanted to be around

17:35

be around you know, friends

17:37

and shows, you know, things

17:39

like that, but actually had

17:42

no idea what I wanted to do. And um,

17:45

it kind of just like run the gamut of like waitressing,

17:49

bartending, you know, just kind of

17:51

whatever bullshit and free level

17:53

jobs. And then I saw I

17:55

don't even think it was Craigslist. I think it was before Craigslist,

17:58

somewhere on the Internet and the bubbles of

18:00

the Internet. I had found a job listening for

18:03

um, like a secretary

18:05

position at a record label in

18:07

Chicago. And so I was like

18:10

two years two years deep in school, had been kind

18:12

of like, I didn't know what I wanted to do,

18:15

was kind of getting bored with it. Thought it was just kind of

18:17

spinning my wheels. Was more interested in

18:19

working, and so, UM, I stopped

18:21

going to school, I said, I found that job

18:23

listing and I applied for it, and it was for

18:25

a record label in Chicago, as I'm

18:27

sure you know, which is how you met me. Um,

18:31

and that was I stopped point to school and

18:33

then started working, and UM,

18:36

yeah, here I am. That's great. Okay.

18:38

So I didn't know that you started out as

18:40

as as a secretary there. I

18:43

I mean, I knew that obviously there was an entry point

18:45

for you, but I didn't know that was the entry point. That's funny.

18:48

Yeah, it's crazy. Also because I was not like

18:50

an intern or anything. I just got like

18:53

an office job there right. Well,

18:56

And it's funny too because, like I

18:58

think most people, I mean, job listing

19:00

is obviously still happened within the independent

19:03

music industry, but it's so rare, like

19:06

because it's like it's all especially these

19:09

sort of highly coveted jobs within at a record

19:11

label. It's usually like, oh, yeah, here's

19:13

like you know, a digital assistant

19:15

that will put in metadata for hours

19:17

at a time. You know, um, like that's a job listing.

19:19

But then you would never see um something

19:22

I mean, even even though the administrative assistant

19:24

secretary or whatever like that position would still

19:26

be like probably not listed as often as you

19:28

would imagine, Oh for sure. Yeah, it's

19:30

usually kind of like you know, promoting front

19:32

within or who you know, And I just got lucky

19:35

and stumbled upon it, um

19:37

and applied and and then cut the job. Um.

19:40

So the uh did you ever have

19:42

any a desire to like, um, I

19:45

guess, like play in the band, or like do a zine

19:47

or like any of those other sort of um,

19:49

you know, extracurricular activities like beyond

19:52

just like going to the show or like how are you trying

19:54

to um? Because you were consuming so much

19:56

of it. How are you trying to, I guess, get

19:58

even more involved. You know, prior

20:01

to actually working at a record label,

20:03

I never did anything that like took off, Like

20:05

a couple of my friends like kind of started a half

20:07

asked zine where we would like write record

20:09

reviews and stuff, but you know, it didn't get any further

20:12

than like pretty much like our

20:14

circle of friends. And I

20:16

never, like I had never really booked

20:18

any shows because I was like I already knew

20:20

everyone who did that stuff. Um,

20:23

you know, like my friends were already doing it, So I was just

20:25

kind of around it, right, So

20:27

you were just you were able to observe kind of everybody

20:30

you knew was already doing something, and you're just like,

20:32

oh, I don't know where. I don't know where I fit if

20:34

I am like looking at this in the

20:36

professional terms, like where would I go? Right?

20:39

And then I legitimately just got a job like at a record

20:41

label as you know, a secretary as my

20:43

as my entry point, which is bizarre now

20:45

that I'm saying it out, that for

20:48

sure was it. Uh once

20:50

you started to work, there was it. Um

20:53

And I'm putting a pause here just you

20:55

obviously do not want to mention the label

20:57

name is that, Okay, I did.

21:00

That's why I just wanted to make sure

21:02

I was picking up on your cues. But we will, um

21:04

anyways, unpausible. So

21:07

I mean that because was that like early two thousands,

21:10

like two thousand one ish or so that you started working

21:12

for Victory Active in two thousand

21:14

one, okay? Um?

21:16

And so I mean at that time it

21:18

was so um the label

21:20

was obviously in that sort of weird transition phase

21:23

of being like, hey, we are the

21:25

absolute powerhouse of you

21:27

know, independent hardcore and punk, and

21:29

it was like, I mean, I can't tell you how important Victory was in

21:31

my life. Um, the Victory

21:34

magazine and me going to my mom

21:36

every Christmas being like, hey, I want to

21:38

order three worth of merch from here? Can

21:40

I do that please? Yeah? For

21:42

me too, which is why I was like kind of surreal that that was

21:45

where I was able to get my first, you know,

21:47

my first anything working in music was at

21:49

this label that I had um been

21:51

listening to for so long and like buying records

21:54

and shirts and this that and the other thing. I don't

21:56

even know, Like I

21:58

guess I never thought that it was like an attainable

22:01

goal and then it just kind of you know, anyway

22:05

you were you freaked out when you were going into there

22:07

as far as like interview is concerned, or were you just kind

22:09

of like, all right, I gotta try to play this cool. Oh

22:11

my god, I was totally freaked out, but I played it super cool.

22:13

Like I mean, I was young. I was I think,

22:17

like, you know, I didn't really

22:19

know anything said and the fact that like I loved

22:22

music, Like I'm pretty sure in my interview there, I was

22:24

like, you know, um,

22:26

you know, I've been you know, had like

22:29

some some jobs, like some office jobs and whatever.

22:31

But I think like my selling point of myself

22:34

was like, yeah, so like snap Cases

22:36

like my favorite band, you know, Like

22:39

it was totally it was totally surreal. It

22:41

was really cool. Yeah that's amazing. Um.

22:44

But yeah, so the labels obviously in that transition

22:46

phase of like that's what they were

22:48

known for, and then obviously signing all the bands like

22:50

you know, Taking Back Sunday and Thursday and Hawthorn

22:53

Heights and all that stuff was swirling around. So it was I

22:55

presume it was a really exciting time to kind of

22:57

be at the label and watch all these

22:59

like crazy growth steps

23:02

being happening kind of all around you. It

23:04

was so awesome because, like I said, like when I when I got

23:06

into it, it was like that's when the label was

23:08

kind of on the cusp of you know,

23:10

breaking out of just being like a punk and

23:12

hardcore brand, if you will, Like you

23:15

know, I've gone in there, and like that's

23:18

when I started working there. On Thursday's Full Collapse

23:20

had just come out, UM,

23:23

and that was, as you and I both know, just

23:25

like a monumental album,

23:28

um for the label and for for the

23:30

genre and kind of beyond. So I

23:32

started at a really special time when

23:34

I got to UM, I guess

23:37

see the ins and outs of what happens

23:39

when when a label has that kind of growth,

23:42

and how do you, um, I guess

23:44

kind of keep that, you know, have

23:46

it continue and like all the bands

23:49

that were signed after that and before that, and

23:51

you know how the label had diversified, and it

23:54

was it was really really incredible thing to

23:56

watch, for sure, because I think it's it

23:58

does um honestly it irks me

24:00

and I kind of feel like, uh, well,

24:03

I don't feel weirdly protective. I feel protective

24:05

over the legacy that obviously you know,

24:07

Victory an Tony in general has has created where

24:09

it's just like, obviously, it's really easy for people in

24:11

the past, you know, ten years or so,

24:13

to just be like, oh, like the fucking worst

24:15

and it's just like but at the same time, it's like

24:18

you you have to look at what obviously

24:20

came before that as well, where it's like the momentum

24:23

that like you're talking about that time

24:25

had where it was like, you know, you guys were pouring gasoline

24:28

on fire and it was like unbelievable

24:30

to watch that growth of like you know,

24:33

a band coming through something California on tour,

24:36

playing in front of two people, and then the next time

24:38

they come through, they're playing in front of a thousand people and that's

24:40

like six months and you're just like, how the fund

24:42

does that happen? Yeah, it was mind blowing

24:44

and I still to this day feels super lucky, Um

24:47

that I was able to experience all that

24:49

firsthand. It was it was just it was

24:51

like a really truly beautiful thing to watch, especially

24:54

with the band Thursday. Um.

24:56

You know, they were playing like huge radio

24:58

shows and like you know, I remember seeing them

25:00

in Chicago like a Q one on one, which is like the Alternative

25:02

station here at like one of their festivals,

25:04

playing in front of literally thousands of people and being

25:07

on stage and being like holy ship, you

25:09

know, you know, so,

25:11

how how did you How did you? Um,

25:14

I guess, you know, sort of internally move up

25:16

to where obviously PR like, you know,

25:18

because you ended up like towards towards the end of

25:20

your tenure there you were kind of like pr

25:23

A and R like you were kind of you know, doing

25:25

multiple things at the label. UM, so

25:27

how did that sort of evolution kind of happened internally?

25:30

So, like I said, my first job there was just a secretary.

25:33

UM. I think I wasn't only in that position for

25:35

maybe six months because UM,

25:39

I was really, like I said, I've always been really passionate

25:41

about music, and I was very like forthcoming about

25:44

my uh, you know, wanting to

25:46

do more than just be a secretary at the label. So

25:48

I think my first promotion was like

25:51

running UM the Street

25:53

Team, which was cool, which is a really great

25:55

way to network UM across the

25:58

country and some of those kids who on the Street Team

26:00

still talk to you to the day, which is insane. UM.

26:02

And then from running the Street Team, I

26:05

started doing advertising

26:07

I think, and then I started doing

26:10

video promotion, which was cool, and then I

26:12

started doing it to our publicity and then

26:14

um yeah, and then that's

26:16

like when I quit around

26:19

when I was doing video and um PR

26:21

and also A and R as you know, um,

26:23

but everyone there, like there was never like a specific

26:26

A and R person. Everyone just kind of there's

26:28

a band that you were into. You kind of bring it to a meeting,

26:30

and everyone in the office of talk about it and signed

26:32

them there into it or passed if they weren't, you know,

26:35

right right, Yeah, I know that's true. It was it was always

26:38

it. See. It seems so interesting obviously how that

26:40

process worked internally, just like as I got to obviously

26:43

know you and the ins and outs of of how Victory

26:45

worked at that time, and it was just it was, Yeah,

26:47

it was interesting to see where it was like, yeah, you were

26:50

you were doing PR, but at the same time, it was

26:52

like so many bands were going to

26:54

you directly because you already

26:56

had this great relationship with them, um,

26:58

and so it was that. I'm sure it was an interesting

27:01

navigation playing a middle person.

27:03

Um. You know, I'm not looking for stories

27:05

or anything like that, but just the the idea of you

27:07

being like, hey, we want

27:10

to talk to Stephanie because you know she'll she'll be able to

27:12

help us out and be able to do this. Um.

27:14

But then also you obviously you know, you had a Boston

27:16

you were reporting to a person being able to be like

27:18

oh no, like this is this is what's happening, like you know,

27:21

no one's going behind your back or anything like that. You had to

27:23

be in this weird dual role there. I'm

27:25

sure, yeah, definitely, And

27:27

I said a lot of people there had a and our duties,

27:30

which you can tell by how diverse the label UM

27:33

was. It's like if I had just been

27:35

the only if I was only in our person, the whole label

27:37

would have just been like super heavy.

27:39

You know, I listened to UM,

27:42

but it was. It was a healthy mix, which

27:45

is I think due to everyone having kind of

27:47

a say and what what bands were brought on. So

27:49

yeah, the the only thing

27:51

I wanted to pry into in

27:53

regards to a victory was the fact like kind

27:55

of like how you mentioning anecdotally that that story

27:58

of you know, watching Thursday at you know, the que on a one

28:00

thing, were there were there any

28:02

more sort of like concrete moments

28:04

in your head of those sort of wild

28:06

experiences of like, oh my gosh, like

28:08

here was this band that like no one knew

28:10

about and then all of a sudden, you know, like Hawthorne Heights obviously

28:13

is a prime example of like no one knew that

28:15

band, and then all of a sudden, you know, you've

28:17

got you've got gold records hanging on your wall

28:19

to attribute the fact that they sold

28:21

so many records, like any other sort of Anexottle

28:24

moments that you can remember of being like this

28:26

is fucking insane, this is happening. Oh,

28:28

for sure, there were some absolute life changing moments,

28:30

Like you mentioned Hawthorn Heights. That one was a little

28:32

bit more formulaic because we had already

28:35

gone through taking back Sunday at that

28:37

point, Thursday at that point, so it was kind of like

28:39

we um, those of us working

28:41

there kind of already knew what to do um

28:43

taking back Sunday things. Still to this day

28:46

is like I could just gush about

28:48

that band and working with them, it was. It was such an

28:50

amazing experience. And for me professionally,

28:52

like I had just started doing video promo.

28:55

That's when you know, video networks were

28:57

like like MTV and FUSE and whatnot. We're still

28:59

playing videos stantly and it was like a full time

29:01

job to to actually be getting your videos on

29:03

those channels. But I remember getting taking

29:05

back Sunday on TRL when that was till the show,

29:08

and that was like an absolute

29:10

life changing career moment for me, Like sitting in

29:12

the office watching my like watching

29:14

a little TV over my desk and seeing them like

29:17

I'm total request Live, which you remember

29:19

how big that ship was at the time. It was like,

29:21

you know, like actual

29:24

pop stars and here we have this like you

29:26

know, this little label in Chicago and this little band

29:28

from New Jersey, Um, you know on

29:30

this TV screen. Was kind of mind blowing and I

29:32

was like a moment where I realized I could

29:34

actually be good at what or I was actually good

29:36

at what I did, you know, Like I was seeing the results.

29:39

Um that was super gratifying.

29:42

UM. I think another one

29:44

um from working there, like another

29:47

band that I don't even know if there was like

29:49

one necessarily monumental moment with them, but

29:52

the Band Between the Very and Me is a band

29:54

that um that was actually the first

29:56

band that I had ever, Like it was

29:59

my first A and R project. I remember seeing that band

30:02

a really small show in Cleveland, Ohio.

30:04

UM, it was a little festival and

30:07

I was just blown away by their performance and kind of like

30:09

started talking to them and we became friends,

30:11

brought them to the label they got signed, and

30:14

watching them, I think why I worked

30:17

there. They put out we re released our self titled

30:19

album, and they put out The Silent Circus in

30:21

Alaska while I was still there, and just exponential,

30:24

like immediate exponential growth with that band because

30:26

they were, like, you know, they were a little

30:28

band from North Carolina, UM, just absolutely

30:31

incredible musicians. And it was kind of like we

30:34

signed them, we put out the record, the stars aligned

30:36

and they just blew up.

30:38

And as I'm sure you know, there's still like

30:41

there's still an incredible an incredible

30:43

band doing incredible things. Um,

30:45

you know, still selling tons of records

30:47

and touring and just doing things the

30:49

right way. And it was just it's it was a pleasure

30:52

to watch them. It still is a

30:54

pleasure to watch them continue to grow and release

30:56

music. Yeah. To be but to be there,

30:58

like you were saying, sort of on the giving

31:00

the band the foundation of just like how they

31:02

could obviously build build their career

31:05

moving forward. It's like that's a you know, that's a

31:07

that's an awesome thing to be able to, you know, ten

31:09

to fifteen years later look back on and be like, dude,

31:11

they're they're still They're still a force

31:13

to be reckoned with. Absolutely. Yeah,

31:16

and yeah, just the whole experience was it

31:19

was a huge learring experience for me because, like I said, it was

31:21

the first band that I had ever like you

31:23

know, really had my hands

31:25

on, and they went on to do amazing

31:27

things and it was every step of the way. It was just

31:30

it was it was something new for me and it was so exciting.

31:32

That's awesome. I wanted to poke it. Something tiny

31:35

that you said in there that I think is uh. I think

31:37

a lot of people, especially when you do

31:39

start to work at stuff when you are

31:41

really young. Uh, you

31:43

know, it's that that sort of imposter syndrome where you're

31:45

just like, dude, I can't believe I'm here.

31:48

This is weird. Why are you like paying money me

31:50

money to me to like work this stuff that I care

31:52

about and like? But you mentioned like with the TRL

31:54

and taking back Sunday experience where that

31:57

was when you kind of it kind of dawned on You're like, hey, I'm

31:59

actually good at this, Like this is something

32:02

that I was able to, you know, bring to fruition

32:04

and make happen. Um. Was

32:06

that? Was that a pretty weird

32:09

moment for you to like, I guess have that record, you

32:11

know, recognization of the fact that you were

32:14

good at something, um and kept it totally

32:16

was like you said, it was like when

32:18

I was doing that job, I was just like, this is so

32:20

great. I just love what I do. I hope I'm doing

32:22

a good job, you know, because like I didn't know

32:25

a lot then, I had never done that

32:27

before, and that like that moment

32:29

and I was like, oh, holy sh it, like my hard

32:31

work actually paid off. This is a thing that

32:33

I along with a team of people in a band who wrote

32:35

a really incredible record. Um,

32:38

but this is a thing that that I helped

32:41

make happen and it was amazing. Yeah.

32:44

Um. And then uh so, and then

32:47

you left Victory, so like in mid two thousands

32:49

or something like that. Um. You

32:51

and so basically at that point you were

32:54

going on your own and look with that, I presume

32:56

that was was that the the

32:58

original plan or was it like, Hey, I

33:00

just need to leave Victory And then I'll figure out what's

33:02

happening or where was your head kind of at Yeah,

33:05

I had no clue. I just quit. Um.

33:07

I quit in two thousand two

33:11

five six. Um,

33:13

yeah, I just quit. I had no plan. Really, I was

33:16

just gonna like take some time off. I

33:18

didn't really know what I wanted to do. I

33:20

wasn't sure if I wanted to stay music. I was kind of burnt

33:22

out working at labels and whatever.

33:25

And I remember it

33:27

wasn't even a week after I quit, I got a

33:29

phone call um from my friend Carl

33:31

Hansel, who I don't know. Do you

33:33

know? How do you know Carl? Um?

33:35

Great guy? So I knew Carl. He was in

33:38

a band on Victory called Marder a d He

33:41

and they had like broken up or whatever. And Carl

33:44

had moved to Boston and he was working um

33:46

at a label called Bridge nine and

33:48

he was label managing. And so he found out

33:50

that I quit Victory and he calls me and he was like, hey, what

33:53

are you doing? Like nothing, I just like

33:55

quit my job. I don't know what's going on. And he was he

33:57

asked me, He's like, UM,

34:00

do you do you think that you would ever

34:02

like like do independent publicity,

34:05

and it kind of hadn't crossed my mind yet, just because

34:07

I literally had no plan, and

34:10

so I was like, let me think about it. And I called him

34:12

back and I was like, yeah, I mean that's something I could do, Like, are

34:14

you guys looking to hire? And he was saying, yeah,

34:16

you know, Bridge and Lost

34:19

um lost their publicists and we needed

34:21

somebody to work on a couple of records, and

34:23

and I guess the rest is history. He was, Um,

34:27

I guess they were. Britain was my first

34:29

clients, and I wasn't for Carl

34:31

calling me, I'm not sure that I guess

34:34

I would have formed an independent publicity

34:36

company, although I'm sure I would have at some point, but that

34:38

was certainly the catalyst at

34:41

the time. And then um,

34:43

I started working with Bridge and nine and then

34:45

started picking up some other labels here

34:47

and there and right the

34:50

So, so were you were going through some sort

34:52

of like real soul searching moments? I'm sure like

34:54

obviously, like you said, because you quit Victory and you didn't

34:57

even know if you wanted to kind of continue down the music

34:59

path. Um was it? Uh?

35:01

Was it one of those things? I mean, this is kind of two questions

35:04

wrapped up into it. But like, I'm sure your parents

35:06

were kind of watching you, you know, do cool

35:08

things at the label and then like when you quit,

35:11

like was there, you know, concerned on their

35:13

end where they were like, hey, um,

35:15

like so are you still going to do this music thing? Like how

35:17

about you do some like real job stuff or

35:19

like or or was that or they do supportive in

35:21

general, they're so supportive in general.

35:24

They've like I've done some weird

35:26

ship in my life. I mean not super weird,

35:28

but they've just been like, yeah, man, whatever you want to do, like

35:31

we'll help you chase your dreams kind of thing. But they

35:33

had seen me. I mean, when I quote Victory, I

35:35

was burnt out, like I had

35:37

been worked to the bone and just

35:40

kind of needed a break. And you know, that was my

35:42

only experience working in the industry, so part

35:44

of me was afraid that that's how it was always going to be,

35:46

Like you know, what if I what if I stay working

35:48

in music and you know, I you

35:50

know, I have a heart attack and like, you

35:53

know, um. But then

35:56

obviously I realized that that wasn't the case, and

35:58

working for myself was awesome, and work for other way it was

36:00

a super awesome UM

36:03

did you and so was it? Um?

36:06

Was it difficult for you to kind of, I guess, muster

36:08

up the courage to you know, do do

36:10

the thing on your own even though, like you said, only like a

36:13

we could obviously passed and you know, having

36:15

one client like for something that you didn't

36:17

even know you wanted to start? UM or

36:20

was it was it difficult for you to kind of like, all right,

36:23

this is the path rather than just like oh,

36:25

dip in my toe here and like, but I gotta think

36:27

about something else. And although if this thing

36:29

doesn't work out, this whole independent PR thing

36:31

doesn't work out, honestly, no, I

36:34

mean everything that I do and I think

36:36

that you know this about me, like pretty much everything

36:38

that I do, I do it like

36:41

balls to the wall, like I'm not going to half acid.

36:43

I started working independently and I was like, okay,

36:46

you know what, I'm gonna run with this, and I

36:49

I'm still running with it. Um. I did take a

36:51

little break, um, but

36:53

I still so I started, I stopped working

36:55

in music full time, so like, okay, so just

36:57

to go back two six

37:00

victory, I started UM doing like full

37:02

time independent music publicity UM

37:04

of Bridge and I am various other labels UM.

37:06

And then in like two thousand and eight, I

37:09

got a job offer UM

37:11

with an independent film company UM

37:13

doing publicity, So I took

37:15

that on. It's my full time job, Sami briefly

37:18

though it didn't. It lasted about a year and then I just realized

37:20

my heart was not into film. But that

37:22

being said, I also still kept

37:25

a few music clients on the side, so after

37:27

my day job working in film, I would go home at night

37:29

and work on all the music stuff. So it was something that

37:31

I never you know, I never lost

37:34

any passion for, and if anything, over

37:36

the years, it's just gotten, you know,

37:39

more and more serious the mentioning

37:43

you mentioned this earlier obviously, like with one

37:45

of the major reasons you left Victories because you

37:47

were so burnt out, and you know, I mean, I I

37:49

always remember every time I came through Chicago and

37:52

I hung out with you, and you know, we definitely did the uh

37:54

you know uh sitting

37:56

with each other and having real deep conversations about both

37:58

of our label experiences. UM.

38:00

The

38:01

the the pressure that I was

38:04

watching you feel and sort of the burnout that

38:06

you were feeling. How have you obviously taken

38:08

that and not because since you do

38:10

work for yourself, you can pretty much put

38:13

you know, eighteen hours a day into it because

38:15

you are the one determining your own workload. Um,

38:17

how have you kind of like taken that experience

38:20

and been like, all right, there needs to be some semblance

38:22

of balance otherwise, you know, I will burn myself

38:24

out again pretty quickly. Dude. It's

38:26

a really fine line. Like, Um,

38:30

I have a really insane work ethic to

38:32

begin with, and when I worked

38:34

at Victory, I got super burned out because I had an

38:36

insane work ethic and we were expected to have an insane

38:39

work ethic. So it was just like super NonStop

38:41

twenty four hours a day all the time. And

38:43

now that I'm on my own, I do, you

38:45

know, work long hours and I'm

38:47

kind of never not working. But it's

38:50

just a balance that I kind of had to find on my own,

38:53

Like I have to you know, I have actually

38:55

have a pretty like strict schedule,

38:58

like like routine for myself, Like every

39:00

day I'm off the computer at a certain time and I'm on the

39:02

computer at a certain time, and you know, I've

39:04

just had to set limitations for myself.

39:07

But it actually

39:09

wasn't hard because I I've been on the other

39:11

side of it where I got so you know, so

39:13

exhausted and burnt out that it was just like, Okay, this is

39:15

the thing that I need to make sure that I do so I can

39:18

continue to do my job and actually be good at it

39:20

and not just be this like absence space cadet

39:22

because I'm constantly doing a thousand things that once and

39:24

even like I

39:27

I evedn't like with my workload, only

39:29

allow myself like X amount of projects

39:31

to be working on at a time because I know that,

39:34

um, it's all I can handle,

39:36

and I want to do a good job and I don't want to

39:38

feel like ship and I don't want to feel crazy and

39:40

overworks. It's just it's just

39:43

a balance I've had to find, right, Yeah, because

39:45

that is difficult, especially when it's like you know,

39:47

you're I find it obviously very

39:49

interesting too, where it's like you haven't taken the

39:51

typical approach of you know, like naming

39:54

some pr company and it's like you've done

39:56

the business obviously under your name, and

39:59

the you know, the branding of

40:01

yourself has You've

40:03

never been concerned about that, um, And

40:06

I find it so interesting because obviously most other

40:08

people completely swim against

40:10

that grain are just like, oh, I need to have a name for

40:12

myself in order to feel like I'm, um,

40:14

you know, legitimate or people will take

40:16

me seriously. But it's like, obviously you

40:19

have chosen completely against that, so that I

40:21

presume that was a very deliberate decision. Yeah,

40:24

I was. I just I mean, I my

40:26

work, I guess speaks for itself, and

40:29

I'm you know, people hire me to do my

40:32

thing for them, so it's like, you know, I'm

40:34

very behind the scenes, and I guess I just I

40:36

don't feel like I needed, like to hide behind a company

40:39

to do that. I am, you

40:41

know, I work. It's myself

40:43

and an assistant, um, and I literally

40:45

have my hands on every single thing I do,

40:47

and it's all me, and I think people

40:49

hire me because of that. So I wanted to be

40:51

known that it is this is hey, this is me that's working

40:54

on it. I'm a real person. I am an assistant who does

40:56

background stuff, but I you know, will

40:59

start and finish a project and

41:01

I will do it to the absolute best of my abilities,

41:04

right right. Um.

41:06

And this kind of goes along with the question of of

41:08

of balance as well, where it's just like because

41:10

um, because it's really easy, Um, you

41:12

know, I mean for both men and women that are

41:14

involved in you know, independent music in

41:17

general, it's very easy to um,

41:19

you know, want to be

41:21

with people, date people that are obviously immediately

41:24

surrounding you in regards to like, oh people

41:26

in bands and other people are going to shows

41:28

and like completely be consumed by it. But it's like, obviously,

41:31

you know your husband is a tattoo artist. Um,

41:34

obviously he has a connection with music and

41:36

knows everything that you're working. But um,

41:39

I presume it's also nice to obviously have something

41:41

beyond just like two people existing

41:43

in the same exact universe talking

41:45

about the same exact things over and over. Oh

41:47

God, of course. I mean it helps that we

41:50

certainly understand where he understands

41:52

where I come from, and I understand where he comes from because

41:54

he comes from the same background. It's just professionally,

41:57

Um, we don't do the same

41:59

thing. And it's very nice, like when he gets home

42:01

from work, I can kind of talk about what I do,

42:03

but it's not you know, it's not all

42:06

we talk about, which is a very good

42:08

thing. Right you You're you're not talking

42:10

about all of the all of the this

42:12

is what happened on the internet today. This was so

42:14

crazy because this band did this thing.

42:17

Yeah, I'll just look at me and give me like an eye roll on the night

42:19

of the stop. That's

42:22

funny. Um, but I presume I presume

42:24

that took some navigation for you to realize.

42:26

That's like I mean, because I myself, like the

42:28

you know, if I was dating a girl

42:31

who was really involved in the music scene, it was definitely

42:33

one of those things where it was just like that's

42:35

all, that's all. If that's all we have to talk about,

42:37

then, like this isn't really a solid foundation. Did

42:40

you have to kind of navigate that yourself as well? Um

42:44

wait, I'm not sure what you're asking. No, basically just

42:46

like trying to figure out, like, you know, when you were

42:49

dating people and you were you know,

42:51

obviously going to shows and doing all that and working

42:53

at label, Um, did you have to kind

42:55

of realize that like, oh, like maybe

42:58

it would be nice to you know, be with the

43:00

person that isn't exactly completely as

43:02

piped into music as I was. Oh

43:04

god, yeah, especially working in it, because you need

43:06

a break, like you need to have a real life outside

43:09

of it, which is super important. That and that comes

43:12

like how I mentioned kind of having like the balance,

43:14

like the work balance. I think a work life

43:16

balance is especially important, especially

43:18

when you work in a field such

43:20

as ours. It's like it's pretty easy, I

43:22

feel, to get out of touch with the real world

43:25

when so much of your day has spent like, oh,

43:27

what are people saying about this song premiere I just

43:29

did on this you know, fucking message board

43:31

or whatever. Like It's it's good

43:33

to be able to like get out and do other

43:35

things and have other interests in hobbies and

43:38

have a partner um that supports

43:40

you in your work and also your extracurricular

43:42

stuff too. To keep a healthy

43:44

balance, right, keep it, keep a

43:46

perspective and realize that like yeah, like this

43:49

guy isn't falling off this particular like

43:51

you said this this premiere didn't like

43:53

get as many streams as you wanted to or whatever. Yeah,

43:56

Kevin's really good about helping me with that stuff.

43:58

That's good. Um, And I'm

44:00

sure just because of I mean obviously like so

44:02

many of the projects that you've worked recently, just because

44:05

you've kind of expanded your own

44:07

um resume in regards to you know, not not

44:09

just working you know, metal and hardcore records. You

44:11

definitely work you know whatever, Deaf Heaving

44:14

record, Paul Bear, like, you know, Chelsea Wolf,

44:16

like a lot of a lot of the stuff that would be I

44:18

like to personally define as artistic metal. That's

44:21

that's my own descriptor on it. Um.

44:24

I'm sure that's obviously opened you up to

44:26

so many different experiences because so many different

44:29

uh outlets are like paying attention

44:31

to those sort of bands, whereas like, you know, you could have never

44:33

taken a you know, a half heard or something like

44:35

that to uh, you know, Pitchfork or whatever.

44:37

Um, how has that been? Um? Obviously

44:40

because you're expanding your roster, I presume

44:42

it's exciting, But um, how how is it

44:44

when you kind of first started to work those sort

44:46

of type of bands. Was it like pretty exciting

44:48

because you could talk to people that you never would have been

44:50

able to talk to you before? Absolutely?

44:52

Um, So I never worked with Chelsea Wolf.

44:55

U Oh sorry that's okay, UM,

44:57

But so yeah, so like

45:00

uh, you know, like getting started with Independent

45:02

PR first client, you know, hardcore label.

45:05

Um, you know had kind of stayed

45:07

in that realm for a little while. And then I started

45:09

working with labels like Death Wish um

45:12

in their roster while having music

45:14

roster is a little difference. Um As

45:16

you know, um as, I know that you follow

45:18

them, but um

45:21

I think the first record that I worked with them, UM

45:23

that was like holy

45:25

shit, I'm really good at this again moment um

45:27

when it was a little bit different was Deaf Heavans

45:29

Sunbather. That was such

45:32

that was like another that was like the equivalent

45:35

of like my taking Back Sunday TRL moment all

45:37

over again. It was such

45:39

a beautiful thing to watch that record,

45:41

like like from start

45:44

to finish, Like watch it be recorded, put

45:47

you know, put the work in to get it set up for its public

45:49

city campaign, watch them go on tour.

45:51

Um. You know, the

45:54

the things that that band did, the music that they

45:56

wrote allowed me, Uh,

46:00

it made it easy for me to do my job. It made

46:02

it easy for me to hit up people at Pitchfork who I

46:04

necessary. It wasn't necessarily you

46:06

know, like I had a relationship with but by

46:08

no means, you know, was I super close

46:10

to these people, just because a lot of music that I worked with at

46:12

that time, UM didn't

46:15

you know, didn't really warrant me pitching

46:17

them, if that makes sense. Um,

46:20

but that was like an absolute like cornerstone

46:22

record. Like working like working with death

46:24

Whisch has been amazing. I think that

46:27

pretty much every record they put out is is

46:30

incredible in its own regard. But but Sunway

46:32

there was just such a such

46:35

a big deal for everyone, and I think, like

46:37

even even going into it, like when we

46:39

had heard like the demos, and when the recording came

46:41

back, everybody was just like, holy sh it, like

46:44

this this is this is legit And

46:46

it wasn't It certainly wasn't accident until

46:48

it was very calculated and it was very um

46:52

you know, lots of lots of

46:54

pitching and lots of you know, at least on my

46:56

end. Um, it was just it was a

46:58

really really beautiful rates and it's

47:00

it's even better to watch and see where

47:02

they're at now. That

47:05

and then and then that

47:07

working with Deaf haven't opened so many other doors

47:10

for me, Like I feel like my career

47:12

trajectory has reflected I guess

47:14

my own personal shifts

47:17

in taste, if that makes sense. Like you

47:19

know, I started off as like, you know, kind of punk

47:21

and whatever, and then got like, you

47:23

know, more in hardcore and like metal. And

47:26

then now as I'm getting older, it's like I'm into

47:28

you know, the thinking Man's metal

47:31

if you will, you know, like bands

47:33

like Paul There. I got to work on the Foundations

47:35

of Burden album, which was another

47:37

just absolutely mind blowing

47:39

record and an incredible experience in an amazing

47:42

group of people. UM, and that was really

47:44

special, and it was it was

47:46

really amazing to watch all of the work

47:48

that you know, all the super calculated

47:50

work that we've been able to do UM as

47:52

far as like making like a publicity plan and like letting

47:54

it rip and having it actually succeed in work the

47:56

way we wanted it to happen. UM.

47:59

That was another just absolute

48:02

career highlight for me. And

48:04

how is it? Because I'm I'm always curious.

48:06

It's it's one of those things where it's like, obviously,

48:09

you know, most of the pr work that that you put

48:11

into it is obviously the lead up of the record, and then

48:13

you know, a couple of months after the fact, But

48:15

what what is it when like you

48:17

know, obviously using those two records as an example,

48:19

where it's like there's you know, so much interest for

48:22

such a long and sustained period of

48:24

time, where how do you like,

48:26

you know, after the fires already you

48:28

know, caught and people are hitting you up left

48:31

and right? Um, is

48:33

that almost like just as hard to be able

48:35

to navigate? Like all right? Is like is

48:37

this a good look? Is this like a serious thing?

48:39

Like should we pursue this? And like or

48:42

do you feel like the actual build up of the record is

48:45

harder? Um, I'm just curious. I

48:47

think the build up is harder because like

48:49

going into it, like every project, like

48:51

I'll put together kind of like a whether a

48:53

small ban or a large man will put together kind of like a press

48:56

plan what I think I can get,

48:58

what I would like to get, make sure

49:00

we're all kind of on the same page. And sometimes frankly,

49:03

ship doesn't happen and you have to like work

49:05

really really really hard to actually make

49:07

it happen, you know, And that's a

49:09

hard part for me. It's kind of like I don't mind,

49:12

like the kind of firing squad and people are constantly

49:14

requesting things for me and we have to figure out whether or not

49:16

it's good. Look, that's a great problem. I love

49:18

being in that place. But um, I think

49:21

that that the real like the

49:23

real ship is like the actual album set

49:25

up. Um, it can it can give a little

49:27

tough sometimes. UM, Like I said, especially if people

49:29

aren't responding the way you want them to, UM,

49:32

and you just have to work as hard as you can to get there.

49:35

And that that's actually an important point. I was going to ask about

49:37

two where it's like the I'm sure most

49:39

of your job too, is the idea

49:42

of managing expectations, because it's

49:44

like, I mean, I could probably apply that to most

49:47

things in the music industry of just like al

49:49

right, like this is what we're shooting for, but like

49:51

we don't necessarily know if we're gonna get it, and um,

49:53

you know, sometimes people, you know, whatever,

49:55

manager's bands maybe come to the table

49:57

with some unrealistic ideas and then you have to try

49:59

to talk them back. UM. What's

50:01

been what's been your kind of experience

50:04

with that sort of Um? You know, I guess

50:06

maybe a strategy or a plan that you have in your head

50:08

in order to be like, hey, I want to be real with you,

50:10

UM, but we are. We are still going to

50:13

kick ass, but I want to be real with you. I

50:15

don't have to talk people off of alleged very

50:17

often. UM.

50:20

I think that usually the type of clients

50:22

that I have, UM, are generally

50:24

very realistic and very open to whatever

50:27

I have to say. Again, I'm very fortunate in

50:29

that regard because a lot of people don't have that luxury.

50:32

UM. I don't think I've ever actually

50:35

had a problem where expectations

50:39

were too far off or not met or

50:41

whatever. I think it's just being like I'm

50:43

I'm pretty brutally honest with people, Like if

50:45

it's not happening, I'll be like, you

50:48

know it's not happening. I'll show you all the work that

50:50

I'm doing and what I'm talking to and this is what I'm getting

50:52

back. And it's important just to be really

50:54

open and honest in every single point of a

50:56

publicity campaign, UM, just

50:58

to keep people on the same page, like you have to do it, like

51:00

I'm I'm not here to both smoke up your ass. I'm here to

51:02

do a good job and I'm going to

51:05

uh do everything that I can, and I'm gonna communicate

51:07

with you in very real time about what's going on, just so

51:09

it's not you know, two days before an album

51:12

release and I have to call you and be

51:14

like, hey, so remember that conversation we

51:16

had three months ago. About setting up the record. Well,

51:18

I couldn't make any of that happen. So here's what

51:20

you're looking with, you know, Yeah,

51:23

I better just be there every step of the way and

51:25

just be very communicative about

51:27

and honest about what's happening, right right.

51:29

Yeah, you're not. You're not just dropping off a pilot crap

51:31

at him like you know, a week before the record

51:34

exactly. Yeah, that's I think that's the best way to

51:36

manage expectations is just from

51:38

the get go, set it up the way that you think you can

51:40

do it, and if things aren't happening, be honest in real

51:42

time, you know, just to keep keep

51:44

people in a loop. Yeah, I know for sure. Um,

51:47

there's two less things I want to hit up before

51:49

I let you go. Um was the

51:52

the idea that obviously, because like you mentioned,

51:54

it's literally just you and obviously you

51:56

know one other person that you work with. Um,

51:59

I'm sure of that now. Because you obviously have so many

52:01

successful records under your belt, you know, people have

52:03

kind of come at you being like, oh how about you work with

52:06

with us, and like do you know

52:08

like be our label pr person, and like, you

52:10

know, I'm sure offers have come to you um

52:12

in that regard, but you seem to

52:14

me just obviously completely

52:18

content at obviously the level you're

52:20

at, Like you know, or would you

52:22

like to hire more staff and like have this

52:24

sort of support system underneath

52:26

you or is it like, no, I'm

52:28

really managing this well and I really really

52:30

like the kind of level that I'm at. That's

52:33

a good question. Like as much as

52:36

I like to grow, and I am

52:38

growing every you know, every year

52:40

that I've been working in appendalty has been better than

52:43

the one before it, I just know that

52:45

I'm such a psycho and like I have

52:47

to literally have my hands and everything I

52:49

do. I need to be in control of what I'm

52:52

working on, especially because like I

52:54

take I take my responsibility

52:57

very very seriously. If someone's hiring me on and we

52:59

agree to work together, are like that is

53:01

all consuming for me for the duration

53:03

of however long I've agreed to work. So

53:06

as much as I'd say like, oh yeah, I'd love to

53:08

have a team of like all these people underneath

53:10

me, I know that I cannot like let

53:13

go of enough work to let other people

53:15

work on it for me. So I think that I just

53:17

want to continue building in the

53:20

same way that I that I have, and I

53:22

like being in charge, and I like steering my

53:24

own ship, and I like being in control

53:26

of the clients that I'm working with and being able to

53:28

take on projects that I love because I love

53:30

them, not because I need to pay a staff, you know.

53:33

Um. And I think that that's important and that's what keeps

53:36

me going and and helps you work so hard,

53:39

is that I have such a personal investment

53:41

in every single record, in every

53:43

single band that I work with, that I have to do a

53:45

good job, and I want to do a good job, and

53:47

I know that I can do it on my own. I

53:50

guess, yeah, No, it totally makes

53:52

sense, because I do think it's that weird thing

53:54

of you know, ambition, where it's

53:56

like some people the notion

53:59

is to always be growing otherwise like you know,

54:01

you're dead. But then it's like if you do

54:03

get to a certain level that you personally are comfortable

54:05

at, it's sustainable. It's like, why

54:08

why do you need that next big thing? Because

54:10

really, you know, satisfaction

54:12

in general like never exists. It's not like

54:15

it's not like a band like cold Play is

54:17

not like, oh man, I really wish that we could be

54:19

The Rolling Stones they're totally doing They're they're

54:21

totally having those conversations of like, how can

54:23

we be timeless? You know, it's like there's no level

54:25

of success that will bring you that ultimate

54:28

I'm at the mountain top and that's it. Yeah,

54:31

for sure. Um,

54:34

I just feel super every every day. I

54:36

feel really lucky that I get to do what

54:38

I do professionally, and I get to do it on my own terms,

54:40

and I'm able to work on things that I care so

54:43

much about and have such a meaningful job,

54:46

you know. Um,

54:48

And every year that that I

54:50

work, it's a little bit better than the next. So I guess I'm

54:52

doing something right. And yeah, there's a positive

54:54

trajectory. Um, now

54:56

that this is this is my pet

54:58

theory, and you can they agree or disagree

55:01

with this, but the obviously

55:03

there tend to be um just whatever.

55:05

Categorically speaking, it tends to be a lot

55:07

of females that are involved in PR

55:09

in general. And I personally have always

55:11

attributed to the fact that, um,

55:14

you know, first of all, guys

55:16

are dumb in general, So that we'll we'll we'll go

55:18

ahead and put that as a sort of a premise

55:21

that I have. You don't need to agree with me, But

55:24

so guys are dumb and like there there's that

55:26

notion where it's just like you know you Sometimes

55:30

again, statistically speaking, there are a lot of guys

55:32

making sort of editorial decisions, whether it's they're

55:34

running the website or there you know, the music edit

55:36

or whatever. Across the board, it seems to be more

55:38

males and females are in that position. So my

55:41

conclusion is that usually guys

55:43

being dumb and women filling pr roles

55:45

that you know, women not saying that

55:47

you need to be like, you know, flirtatious

55:50

or anything from that perspective, but you know, guys

55:52

are just like, oh wow, like a girl's being nice

55:54

to me and like, you know, like they're

55:56

talking to you about this record. Like again,

55:59

I'm I'm to take a very naive picture here,

56:01

but um, I've just always noticed

56:03

that sort of weird thing where it's just like, oh,

56:06

like I'm talking to a girl like maybe

56:08

I can like maybe something

56:10

can happen if I'm nice to them. Again, like I said,

56:12

I'm painting a very broad picture. Um,

56:15

but it's just been one of those

56:17

things where it's like that just that weird dynamic that I've

56:19

personally noticed where it's like huh,

56:21

like, I mean, I can't believe that it's

56:23

obviously by accident that these sort of roles have

56:25

kind of landed to where they have. But um,

56:27

yeah, I don't know. I just I want to put it out there to

56:29

see if you had any if you want to pick apart that or

56:32

agree with certain aspects of that. Um,

56:34

I mean, I don't know. Maybe some dudes feel good when chicks

56:37

talk to them.

56:39

I don't know. I think that maybe a lot of women do

56:41

PR just because women

56:44

are fucking worker bees man, like, yeah,

56:46

you know, we may or may not be like, I

56:49

don't know, stronger whatever,

56:51

I mean, we are, But I just think that a lot

56:53

of women are NPR because like, women

56:55

work really fucking hard and it's

56:58

a really are you this

57:00

job? And you have to be really on the ball.

57:02

And I guess some

57:04

dudes just like to talk to chicks and we like to

57:07

talk right right, No,

57:09

no, no, yeah, Like I said, it's a pet theory

57:11

that I've just always I've always observed where it's

57:13

just like you know, if you're if you're painting

57:15

very broad stereotypes, it's like, you know, like super

57:18

nerdy music dude, and then like a

57:20

girl calls him up and be like, hey, can you feature this record?

57:22

And he's like, of course I can. Like

57:24

that sounds great, and it's like yeah.

57:27

Then the cycle goes on. But again, like I said,

57:29

I'm painting a very stereotypical broad picture,

57:31

but I wish to work for are totally

57:38

easier. Yeah, for sure.

57:40

Like I said, it's this is probably from like the

57:42

uh the again, like

57:44

you know, a PR person just starting

57:47

and then like you know a person who has a tumbler

57:49

page. You know, it's like, this is a very like um

57:52

minimal idea that I'm extrapolating to

57:54

the whole the industry as a whole. So I

57:56

encourage everybody to not really listen to what I just said.

57:59

But at the same time time, it's a funny theory that I've had

58:01

so um. Well, Stephanie,

58:03

thank you so much for obviously being on the

58:05

complete opposite side and being

58:08

featured in ways that you've never been featured

58:10

before. I appreciate you know, I hope I did. Okay, I

58:12

don't know if I'm gonna be I don't know if interviews are going to

58:14

be my thing now. This

58:18

could be uh, this could be your whole new, whole

58:20

new world where you will all of a sudden start fielding

58:23

interview requests for yourself and you, like you

58:25

mentioned before, you are your own PR person, So

58:27

I doubt it. I don't know how my bands do this ship

58:29

like it's it's a kind of nerve wracking.

58:33

How about, um, how about just imagine

58:35

like four more after this? But

58:38

that's terrible. Now I feel bad. I'm gonna cancel all my Dan's

58:40

interviews today. But

58:43

but then all four of those interviews

58:45

are fifteen minutes apiece, and they're gonna

58:47

be asking you questions that you have

58:49

been asked like a million times

58:51

before. How do you how do you get your

58:54

band name? Um?

58:56

Also, I will say so I listened

58:58

to your podcast, you know often

59:00

aside from just having like my clients on there,

59:03

but in general, and I always

59:06

like I've gotten a few like shoutouts

59:08

if you will, and I always hear you guys, like

59:10

I mean, I don't know if she's listening or not, but like Stephanie

59:13

Marlowe, I'm always listening. I'm

59:16

always listening, and I always hear when you

59:18

guys mentioned my day, and I thank you for that, of

59:20

course, no, of course, and that was another

59:22

reason why it's like, I would be remiss if I

59:24

did not have the person who has been

59:26

tangentially mentioned in multiple

59:28

interviews on the show where it's like, oh

59:30

yeah like that, and you're you're an important

59:33

person in the in the cog that

59:35

makes the machine go. So of course, but

59:38

I like, just so you know, I'm always saying I

59:41

like that, I am the ever present

59:43

I looming down on you exactly.

1:00:01

So that's Stephanie, isn't

1:00:03

she great? She's the best. So

1:00:05

thank you very much, Stephanie for letting

1:00:08

me turn the tables on you and being like, oh,

1:00:10

wow, so this is what all my bands going through. She

1:00:13

actually said that to me, um, not after

1:00:15

the conversation, but was as we

1:00:17

were ramping up to it. She was just like, oh, this is weird.

1:00:20

I've never done this before. So I

1:00:22

was very appreciative for her, you know, peeling

1:00:24

back the veil, so to speak. So anyways,

1:00:27

the editor this week is Anthony.

1:00:30

Anthony is back, Anthony Potera.

1:00:33

He is in a band called Zombie and hopefully

1:00:35

he's enjoying this process because if he does,

1:00:38

then he's going to continue on. But you

1:00:40

know, we're doing a little little trial run here

1:00:42

in January. But thank you very much, Anthony,

1:00:44

I really really appreciate it. And

1:00:46

um visit the show's website, one words

1:00:49

podcast dot com, and follow us

1:00:51

on Twitter, you know, all that good stuff.

1:00:53

In order to communicate with the show, and

1:00:56

last line of communication one words

1:00:59

Podcast at gmail dot com, write

1:01:01

me because I always enjoy hearing from people

1:01:03

who get something out of the show. Anyways,

1:01:06

until next week, please be safe.

1:01:08

Everybody you've

1:01:10

been listening to the jabber Jaw podcast network

1:01:13

jabber Jaw Media dot com

1:01:15

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