0:03

According to numerous studies , when

0:05

we are in nature , we begin

0:08

healing . One specific study

0:10

showed that when participants were exposed to

0:12

nature scenes , their brain parts

0:14

linked with empathy and love lit

0:16

up . Being in nature creates harmony of

0:19

the mind . It strengthens

0:21

our connection to our soul on

0:23

a deep level and creates

0:25

calmness in our bodies . In

0:28

this episode , we're talking with Warriors on

0:30

Cataract Canyon who are harnessing

0:32

this healing power of nature

0:34

, as well as the camaraderie

0:36

of doing an intense whitewater

0:39

rafting trip to help veterans

0:41

, specifically disabled veterans , process

0:43

their emotions , find new connections

0:45

and have better mental health .

0:48

We everything and add to that river

0:50

trip and help them make more

0:53

of this opportunity . So

0:56

we've got adventure , camaraderie

0:58

, beauty , reverie , all those

1:00

things .

1:01

Welcome to Two Degrees Out West , a podcast where

1:03

we talk about all the things we love about

1:05

the Western US and how

1:08

we can continue to support this beautiful place

1:10

that is thriving and protected

1:13

for generations to come . I'm your

1:15

host , jessie Janice , the multimedia storyteller

1:17

here at Western Research Advocates , and

1:20

we're always growing and expanding this podcast

1:22

to make it the best podcast it could possibly be

1:24

, and we do that by reading your

1:26

reviews . The simplest way that

1:28

you can leave a review is to go to wwwGreatnessPodcastcom

1:31

. Slash two degrees . Thanks . Before

1:34

we start talking to Fred , I wanted to let

1:36

you know , listeners , that this episode

1:39

has a lot of sensitive content . We

1:41

reference mental health , suicide

1:43

, sexual assault and substance abuse

1:46

. Listeners who may be sensitive to these topics

1:48

please be advised . Now let's talk

1:50

with Fred . Can we start with

1:52

you introducing yourself ?

1:54

I'm Fred Soheim . I'm from Boulder , colorado . I'm

1:56

a geophysicist . I worked

1:58

with the Department of Defense , I've got an advanced

2:00

degree in geophysics and

2:04

I'm also a river runner and that's kind

2:06

of where we're at here For recreation

2:08

. I ran the Colorado

2:11

from Moab Lake , powell through

2:13

Canningland National Park for

2:15

a long time . I think I started in the mid-70s

2:17

and took friends down there

2:19

and new people and strange

2:21

people had a great time at it

2:23

. And after I'd been down there , one

2:26

thing I noticed taking people

2:28

down there , sometimes people come out the

2:30

bottom of that canyon with different

2:32

personality , relaxed people like to have

2:34

more self-esteem , self-confidence

2:37

, just maybe left a lot of

2:39

their baggage in the river , a lot of their concerns

2:41

, maybe their big issues got them small

2:43

, and I thought , well , that's

2:45

kind of therapeutic . And then I'd been down

2:48

there about 60 times and I decided

2:50

, well , I was listening to this National

2:52

Public Radio and they were interviewing

2:54

this young Marine , mark

2:56

Lutinski , who had

2:58

stepped on a pressure-played mine and he lost both his legs

3:01

above the knee , which is a lot worse than below

3:03

the knee . It makes it a lot harder to walk

3:05

and it was lower left arm he was

3:07

learning to see in the Vail Ski Program

3:09

and he was saying

3:11

I'll get it tomorrow , you know , by some sort of sweaty

3:14

, but I'm just about there

3:16

. And he was called up

3:18

. Not a bit of anger , not a bit of self-pity

3:20

and forward-looking . You

3:23

know , I go to college and do something . And

3:25

I thought , man , I were him , that wouldn't

3:28

be me . I'd be depressed , I'd

3:31

be feeling sorry for myself and I'd be living

3:33

in my car outside a liquor store waiting

3:36

for my disability check to come . And

3:38

so I thought I don't want to take him down the river , that'd be great . He'd

3:42

got a lot out of it and we'd probably get more out

3:44

of it . So I tried to get ahold of him but

3:46

he was in Walter Reed and they fire-rolled

3:49

me and I thought Lutensky

3:51

, that's a Polish name , he's got to be from Minnesota

3:54

or Wisconsin . So I got on the internet

3:56

there weren't too many Lutenskis and I hit him

3:58

. The first one was his mom and she

4:00

connected me with him . But Walter

4:02

Reed wouldn't let him go . But you know , but the

4:04

seed was planted . So I thought yeah . I'll

4:06

find somebody , I'll find some soldiers to take down

4:09

there . So I started calling VA hospitals

4:11

and stuff and I went over to Moab and went

4:13

and talked to one of the outfitters there the biggest outfitter

4:16

. I hadn't interacted with the outfitters because I had

4:18

known boats for all those years . I

4:20

went in and talked to Bob Jones

4:23

at Tagalong and

4:25

talked a little bit about river running

4:27

and then I asked him if he'd ever considered

4:29

taking disabled vets down the river . He said , yeah

4:31

, I've been thinking about it . I said well , why

4:33

don't you have to charge ? I

4:36

think to go and raise that time was about $1,200

4:38

a piece , but a 4-way trip down there . And

4:42

I thought he'd come in about half price and then

4:44

have to start negotiating . He said , oh , $200

4:47

. Really , I don't know if you negotiate

4:50

that . And he said but you got to fill the boat . I

4:52

need eight to make it worthwhile . So

4:54

I went back and I got 15 guys

4:56

signed on . So I had to call Bob

4:58

back and say , bob , I got problem , I got

5:01

15 guys . He said that's okay , I'll

5:03

put on a second boat . And I had to call him back again

5:05

Bob , 27 guys , I'll put

5:07

on a third boat . So that was our

5:09

inaugural trip and

5:12

it was great . It was more

5:14

than I expected . I thought it was going to be a great

5:16

adventure for these guys , but it was also very

5:19

healing because one thing that I don't

5:21

know if you ever saw the movie Band of Brothers there's

5:23

some real tight bonding when you go through combat

5:26

for four years with somebody in a group that

5:28

you're all watching out for each other , watching

5:30

each other at six o'clock and living close

5:33

quarters , high anxiety . It

5:35

was a rekindling of that camaraderie port

5:38

they had in the military

5:40

that came up on the river trip . Even though

5:42

they might have been from different units or different

5:44

conflicts , it was a real commonality

5:47

there and they could also . You

5:49

know , one guy had told me

5:51

you know , for those that haven't

5:53

been there , there's no way you're going to explain what you're going

5:55

through , but for those that have been there

5:57

you don't need to explain it . And

6:00

all these guys are suffering from

6:03

PTSD and

6:05

just the depression of being disabled

6:07

, and their future hopes are a lot dimmer

6:09

than they ever expected would be Having

6:12

a night terrors , waking up in the middle

6:14

of the night , choking their real friend or wife

6:16

sitting next to the other man and

6:18

get charged with domestic violence and thrown in jail

6:21

, all those issues that nobody understood

6:23

why they get her on the campfire

6:25

and they're going to a midnight talk after their stuff . So

6:28

it turned out to be a very healing modality

6:30

. It had everything . You try

6:32

and add everything you can into that river trip

6:34

. How can we make more

6:37

of this opportunity ? So

6:40

we've got adventure , camaraderie

6:42

, beauty , reverie , all those

6:44

things . One can't think of anything

6:46

more to add . But it's a very good formula

6:49

for these guys . I mean that

6:51

guy's called me , emailed me

6:53

, said that trip saved their life . One

6:55

of the VA therapists sometimes the VA therapist bring

6:57

their guys . One told

6:59

me that these guys she had

7:01

nine guys on a higher suicide watch , which

7:03

is the military term . The

7:05

VA these guys

7:07

are , you know , suicidally watching closely and

7:10

she said after the raft trip they

7:12

were able to graduate all

7:14

nine of them off watch man

7:17

. Nine out of nine , that's pretty good . And

7:20

another therapist told me she said , you

7:22

know , this raft trip is

7:25

worse , more than a year of therapy and

7:29

these soldiers among themselves are

7:31

better healers than what we can do with our

7:33

pharmaceuticals or our therapy . Just among

7:36

themselves they do each other and

7:40

I guess they

7:42

form support networks at last . Beyond the

7:44

raft trip . I had a guy . He

7:47

emailed me about two months ago . He

7:49

went on a trip with me 10 years ago . We've

7:53

gone 13 trips down about a thousand

7:55

deaths . He went about 10 or

7:57

11 years ago and he brought he was a master sergeant

7:59

and brought three of his guys two of them were amputees

8:01

, bored Mayfield . He

8:03

emailed me . He said you know , he said he

8:05

said first that trip saves lives

8:08

. That's a fact , a fact . And

8:10

they also said you know

8:12

, my guys are still talking about that raft trip . So

8:15

it's good to hear that there's a lasting effect

8:17

to the raft trip . We don't have a very good follow

8:20

on to see what

8:22

the lasting effects are , other

8:24

than you know what's the one . We

8:26

get a nice email .

8:28

On the evening of the last river camp .

8:29

we have everybody write down the past

8:32

run of the journal and have them write down what they

8:34

think they might have got out of the bag . You

8:37

know , just after four days hasn't really soaked in

8:39

what it was , but

8:41

some of the comments are really hard . Some

8:46

of the collection of some of them . Maybe

8:50

I can read some of these .

8:52

Yeah , I love that , so you

8:54

. So just to clarify

8:56

, you started the first trip was 2010

8:59

. So you've been doing it for 13

9:01

years now .

9:02

Yeah , that's awesome . I think it

9:04

was 2011 . Yeah , I don't know

9:07

. It was way back now

9:09

.

9:10

Cool . Go ahead If you want to read some of the amazing

9:12

.

9:14

Miss Wellman said I'm so appreciative of this trip . It's

9:16

truly life changing . I heard that word a lot

9:18

from these people . It changed my life . What

9:22

you did for us was beyond words

9:24

and forever grateful for the experience . And

9:27

then I said , yeah , I feel so grateful to be

9:29

on this trip and help

9:31

out in the ways I did . I

9:33

think we all managed to leave most of our baggage in the

9:35

river and to come out all the better

9:37

. Some of the women managed

9:39

to blow themselves away with what they

9:41

accomplished . Another said Fred

9:43

, I want to thank you for this , for putting us together

9:45

. This trip has done so much for me . Just

9:48

being together with my fellow Marines is very therapeutic

9:50

. Being back together with some

9:52

of the guys from my own unit brings back the joy

9:54

into my life . What a kind of beautiful

9:57

place to make things so much better . Being

9:59

here is really the happiest that I've been in

10:01

a long time , makes me look forward to life

10:03

. I really needed this

10:05

trip pretty bad . It was only a few weeks ago that I

10:07

was suffering from severe pain , nightmares and

10:10

uncontrolled and suicidal thoughts . I

10:12

can say that since today we're on this

10:14

trip , my pain has decreased , my nightmares have stopped

10:16

and no thoughts of suicide . There's

10:19

nothing like the power of

10:21

natural healing . Out in God's world there's

10:26

some river , you know .

10:29

That's beautiful . Why did you

10:31

pick Cataract Canyon

10:33

of all the places that you could have

10:36

done these rafting trips ?

10:38

Well , it's the biggest water in the US when you get a big

10:40

snow year . I

10:43

wanted the big water . I wanted the big rapids . I

10:45

mean , my boat is . I've

10:47

got two J-Rigs . I call it J-Rigs . It

10:50

would take 20,000 pounds to push that boat underwater . It's

10:53

got a lot of flotation . It's a big boat

10:55

but I've turned it over twice . The last

10:57

time it went up a wave and over backwards in

11:00

a backflip . That's how big the waves

11:02

are .

11:03

So that's crazy .

11:05

Yeah , it's a great rush and

11:07

these combat . These guys are combat soldiers . You know

11:09

they're adrenaline junctions . They like to

11:11

drill and rush , so it was perfect

11:13

for them .

11:15

Yeah , they want to be challenged and work through the problem

11:18

together . You know , have the experience

11:20

together , right , that's a big part of it .

11:23

That's right . It's one of the things I thought

11:25

. You know , put these guys to a real

11:27

big challenge Maybe they're , you

11:29

know , maybe they're a wheelchair and

11:31

take them down to those rapids and scares

11:34

of the Jesus out of them . They didn't , they don't know if they

11:36

can do it , but once they accomplish

11:38

it it's a big boost to them . You

11:40

know I'm disabled , but I don't have to

11:42

be disabled . Yeah , you know

11:44

, we had wheelchairs and a blind

11:46

guy , a lot of service dog , a lot of amputations

11:49

, that one guy , greg Orton

11:51

, who got hit in the head , a

11:53

real bad brain injury , and he had to cut

11:55

away a lot of his scalp , his skull

11:57

, because of brain swelling , and

12:01

that January they put a plate back in his skull

12:04

but he had aphasia

12:06

, he couldn't form sentences and he wouldn't talk

12:08

. But I saw him , you

12:10

know , on the beach the evening or the last the

12:12

second river camp started , chatting it up

12:14

with everybody .

12:16

That's crazy . He just like it , just

12:18

came back .

12:19

Well , he just wanted to

12:21

. I guess really bad . So

12:24

yeah , I don't know Wow

12:26

that's so beautiful . Yeah , now

12:29

I found a check with his therapist

12:31

and see how he's doing Recreation

12:33

. Therapists in the VA system are wonderful . They're

12:35

great people . They're kind of the low

12:37

on the totem pole . One in Cheyenne treated

12:39

so badly she doesn't even go into her office , she

12:42

operates on her car . I don't

12:44

know why they treat him so badly , because I think they're more effective

12:46

than the PhD psychiatrist that they're treating

12:49

those guys . They do get

12:51

a lot of pharmaceuticals . I've

12:53

had guys , a lot of guys , on 10 pharmaceuticals

12:56

, 10 prescribed pharmaceuticals , and

12:59

not just except and it's like SSRIs

13:02

, like Zola , prozac

13:05

, depico , tramadol

13:07

, ambien , opiates , oxycontin

13:09

and

13:13

heavy duty stuff . A whole smorgasbord

13:15

. My head guys

13:17

tell me oh , you know what , I forgot to bring

13:20

my meds along and I'm doing a lot better without

13:22

them . And I've had the guy tell me that

13:24

after the Rapture he weaned

13:26

himself with substance abuse because he

13:29

hooked up with his buddies and thought that's what

13:31

he really needed . And

13:33

others tell me that

13:35

they've weaned themselves with a lot of pharmaceuticals

13:37

. These guys forgot

13:39

to bring them . They found out . You know

13:42

, I just need a focus

13:44

. I need a focus , good

13:46

to go .

13:48

Yeah , yeah . Interestingly

13:51

, today is my

13:53

friend who is a veteran , who I was just on the phone

13:55

with before we

13:58

started this interview . Actually , he just called me . Today

14:00

is his three year anniversary sober and

14:03

he's going out to do it tonight . So I was like , wow

14:05

, what a perfect day to record this podcast

14:07

. Like it just happened that way that it's

14:09

like Jonathan's like celebration day , so

14:11

that's so sweet .

14:13

Wow , well , good for him . Good for him

14:15

, because that's not the real problem

14:18

with disabled veterans , especially

14:20

if you don't have a purpose . It's

14:22

so easy to get into the bottle and

14:24

get into the drugs . I mean , they're

14:26

just hand in the audience psychotropic

14:28

drugs and painkillers and

14:31

it's just too easy to fall into the trap

14:33

. Yeah , it's hard to get out of

14:35

it . It's kind of a one way street .

14:38

Yeah , he keeps having surgeries . You know

14:40

that's part of the problem , right , Is that ? Yeah

14:42

, you keep having to have surgery and

14:44

then they give you prescribed you things

14:46

and yeah , it's your pain all the

14:48

time . It's really hard .

14:49

Yeah , I don't know . It's a problem

14:53

and

14:58

we think we've got a solution

15:00

that we can only take about less

15:02

than 100 veterans a year and there

15:04

are 8,000 that are out there that kill themselves

15:06

every year , 8,000 .

15:10

Do you have a long wait list every year ?

15:12

No , we do have to call

15:14

sometimes and we just have to make

15:17

judgment calls on who would get the most out of the trip

15:19

. Who's going to gain most ? And

15:22

we just kept adding more and more trips because

15:24

we had more and more people . But

15:26

we're kind of up against the funding limit now . You

15:29

know 8,000 , killing themselves every

15:31

year . You know how many we've lost in 20

15:33

years of combat in the Middle East . As

15:36

a comparative number , 20

15:38

years of combat haven't even

15:40

lost 8,000 . And we lose 8,000

15:42

every year to die by their own hand .

15:44

Wow , hmm

15:47

, something we've got

15:49

to think about . Yeah , I mean . Well

15:51

, I don't know , just personally , I didn't even

15:53

know any veterans until I moved to Nevada . I

15:56

don't know what it is about . Well

15:58

, you know , I'm sure there's a socioeconomic , there's

16:01

like a whole bunch of things around that right

16:03

. That's why , when

16:05

I moved to the West , I met so many more vets

16:07

, I guess , but they are

16:09

like my favorite people . They'll

16:12

do anything for you . You know , once you become

16:14

family , you got each other's back

16:16

, no matter what , it's beautiful .

16:19

Yeah , yeah , I love being around them . You

16:21

know they're very mature , they're very calm , they've

16:24

got a real good outlook , very good perspective

16:27

on the world , and you look

16:29

at them and go God , you guys all beat up . His

16:31

life is a lot less than he thought it would be

16:33

. He's still on

16:35

top of it . Yeah

16:39

, we have a trip , for I

16:41

made a mistake early on having

16:44

a mix of Marines and Army guys until

16:46

we had two camps , so I thought , well

16:48

, we got to have these guys on separate raft trips and so

16:50

now we have a special operations trip as well

16:52

as the other branches in the military

16:54

. So the special officer , like

16:56

Air Force Pararasku , green Bray

16:59

, army Rangers , navy Seals , and those

17:01

guys resonate with you together , even though they're

17:03

from a lot of different branches in the military . This

17:06

summer we had a bunch of seals

17:08

and Air Force Pararasku and , I think , a couple Rangers

17:11

, and we managed to get an

17:13

Ukrainian soldier who's an amputee

17:15

, who was over here to get fitted for prostheses

17:17

, so we got him on a river trip and he

17:20

didn't speak English but we had a female

17:23

interpreter for him . Igor was his name . When

17:25

Igor went back home , his daughter

17:28

called back over and said Igor was over the

17:30

moon , over the moon about to trip and

17:33

was chatting with our boys and buddies . When

17:37

I told them , seals , we'd have a

17:39

Ukrainian soldier on board , I

17:41

went to pre-war and they said , ooh

17:43

way cool . We

17:48

had two that were going to go on a rippet's

17:50

femur just before the raft trip , re-broke

17:53

it and then go in and put a rod

17:56

in his bone and then

17:58

he got a bone infection . So Roman

18:01

couldn't go . But next year we're trying

18:03

to get two , three or four

18:05

disabled Ukrainian soldiers

18:07

and we want to get two disabled

18:10

female soldiers too . I

18:12

noticed about three , three or four

18:14

of these years of trips that

18:17

we weren't getting many women to sign on . There

18:20

weren't many women in the military , but

18:22

we didn't have even the

18:25

proportions right . And

18:28

then one of the therapists said well , yeah , of course these

18:30

women most of them had been raped in the military and they won't camp

18:32

with soldiers . They'd be really uneasy about

18:34

it . So we started having all

18:36

female trips and all female crews

18:39

. I don't even let Igor Fred , you're going

18:41

to stay in port . Those are our best

18:43

trips . We get a lot of good

18:45

response out of them and we have a therapist

18:48

, karen House . This woman is

18:50

magic . She has two

18:52

massive degrees of counseling . She's a goldstone

18:55

widow . She's rode the Grand

18:57

Canyon a dozen times in the early Dory . She's

19:00

a river rider , river guide . She's

19:03

embedded in the Air Force . She's got a page and a half of

19:05

military accolades just

19:07

to build out on her own . She really knows

19:10

what she's doing , so she

19:13

ran around . So it's all

19:15

female trips . She goes on the male trips too

19:17

, but one of the activities she gets

19:19

women involved in like mindfulness and

19:21

yoga and games

19:23

and fighting yourself . But it doesn't work

19:25

so much with the guys , you know . They go yoga

19:28

maybe , but mindfulness how

19:30

about horseshoes ?

19:33

Well , that sounds amazing . I

19:35

want to go on an all female rafting trip . That sounds

19:37

so good . Yeah , can

19:40

you set the scene a little bit

19:42

, just of like what it looks

19:45

like in the canyon , what it's

19:47

like rafting down it . I mean , how many times

19:49

have you rafted it at this point ? Hundreds of times

19:51

.

19:52

No , just over 100 . Wow

19:54

, I've been cataract . I've

19:56

done a couple of rivers , but

19:58

mostly cat . I've been down there a lot of times

20:00

, so it's not so much the river to me anymore , except

20:02

when we get to the big rock rafting . I like that . My

20:05

heart starts going . But I like watching

20:07

the reaction of all the people in the boats and

20:09

listen to them chat and

20:12

jostle with each other . So that's a big , big

20:14

part for me . See what they get

20:16

out of me .

20:17

We had a .

20:18

I got to be really good friends with Corman

20:20

Marine Corman , but

20:22

from the 2nd Battalion , 7th Regiment , marine

20:24

. So they got their butts really kicked over from Lucia . I

20:26

got my loss 30 in combat and

20:28

my loss 30 something to suicide

20:31

after that home . So we thought

20:33

we can do something about this . So

20:35

I got ahold of Doc Gwynn

20:37

Corman , the medic

20:40

, and he rounded up his

20:42

guys and brought them down the river and

20:44

did them a whole lot of good to get back together and

20:47

then Doc got killed and so we

20:49

had a over a memorial day weekend about

20:51

three years ago we had a memorial

20:53

trip for him and these other two 7 Marine

20:55

dolls , battle buddies , and his mother

20:58

and his widow and his brother

21:00

. That was a much different trip . It was pretty

21:02

much . Pretty

21:05

much . You

21:09

can tell it's just yeah

21:12

, still gets me in an ocean .

21:14

Yeah , it sounds like a really beautiful , amazing

21:17

tribute .

21:18

Yeah , that was an unusual trip , doc

21:20

. No , we got

21:22

to be friends but it really hurt me when we

21:24

got killed . I

21:29

saw a lot of change and he went on

21:31

three trips , I think maybe four , and

21:33

I could see a progression . See when along

21:35

we got to be more

21:38

relaxed , more perversive , just

21:42

more settled in , more focused on this

21:45

marriage . That's something

21:47

I've heard from some of these guys . Well , you know this

21:50

river trip . It's a magic

21:52

for me . I'm back in my marriage , I

21:54

got a job , I'm happy with it , I'm

21:56

back in school , I'm getting good grades . So

21:59

Purpose is kind

22:01

of the operative

22:03

word . You need some goals

22:06

to go after , some purpose . Everybody

22:08

does Otherwise

22:10

you want to do . You have a lot of guys

22:13

that come back here after a year or , you

22:16

know , to the trip multiple times we

22:18

bring them back if they need another river

22:20

trip , another dose and

22:23

if they're really good leaders to

22:25

meet everybody in active these other guys

22:27

. So yeah , when

22:29

we had one woman who was we

22:31

bring Brits over because there was their NATO troops

22:33

, they caught my conflicts . They're a lot of fun , especially

22:36

the Royal British commandos that are

22:38

really a trip . But this one woman had

22:41

been so brutalized sexually in

22:44

the Marines such switched over

22:46

to army in the UK . Same

22:49

thing out of frying pan and

22:52

On her first trip over she came

22:54

over to three other Brits and

22:56

when I met her down in the motel lobby , met

22:58

that group , I could see her just kind of tense

23:00

up and move back . She really

23:02

Would tense up the presence

23:05

of guys and so she felt traumatized . So

23:08

we actually had her over I think

23:10

four times . Karen

23:13

had a therapy practice down in the

23:15

Santa Fe . Karen brought her over for

23:17

the summer to work with her , work

23:19

on her and work with her , with her in

23:22

her practice , and now , now

23:24

Karen Marshall is , she's

23:26

pretty much back in on who . She even Give

23:29

me a hug , which is

23:31

something for her to be that close

23:33

to a guy . Karen Marshall and Karen

23:36

houses the therapist , so

23:38

just to keep them separate on the

23:40

rap trips we call them one K1 and K2

23:42

. Ha , yeah

23:45

.

23:47

How do people sign up for the trip ? Do they just find

23:49

the website and they can just fill out a form ?

23:52

Yeah , I get emails now and then

23:55

they get word of mouth . Some of

23:57

these units north of Air

23:59

Force Paris is only about 300 of them , so

24:01

the word gets out real quick . The seals

24:03

and seal foundation and all those guys , pretty

24:06

Tight-knit group and

24:08

a lot of Marines . So the

24:10

word gets out and the v8 , the v8 , rec

24:13

therapist , vibration therapist , no

24:15

roundup of guys and bring him the

24:19

rec therapist to China's Christie moving

24:21

. This woman , she

24:23

, she's just magic

24:25

with these guys . They follow her on campus

24:27

puppies , but

24:30

she has . She's had 34 foster children

24:32

. Imagine that . That's incredible .

24:34

Oh my goodness .

24:37

She's so smiling . She's

24:40

called me this morning in Cheyenne Wyoming . Yeah

24:43

, yeah , she's on

24:45

the road to where me to see some of her guys .

24:48

Wow , it seems like there's

24:50

a lot of really incredible people out there . You

24:54

know doing this work .

24:56

Yeah , yeah

24:58

. You need a lot of good people Doing

25:00

things like this .

25:01

You mentioned a bunch of different organizations that you're working

25:03

with , but who else do you work

25:06

with that helps support and gives you fun

25:08

?

25:08

You know real hunger . The only there are only three of us to

25:10

do this . You got Karen at

25:12

the website girl on me and

25:15

Website kind of get falls behind because she

25:17

also does this photo album anyway . So

25:20

stuff you fall behind . On stuff . There's

25:22

supposed to be a sign up on the on their website where

25:24

you can Choose the trip you want to go on

25:27

and you have to fill in all this information . A lot

25:29

of it's HIPAA . We want to know your medical

25:31

condition , what your medications are . We are

25:33

new ones . You contact everything that

25:36

might come up on the road trip about

25:38

half of that questionnaire . Third

25:40

of it is HIPAA , the older competition

25:42

. But they can sign up there . And

25:45

as far as the windward concern , karen

25:47

is so good with them , she interviews and

25:49

coaches all the women for the trip reach

25:52

them , just calls it one by one

25:54

. You know that's 40 women .

25:57

Yeah , if somebody wants to give

25:59

you money , if an organization you know

26:01

or a person's listening to his podcast , do they just

26:04

email you ? Is there a way for them to do it on your website

26:06

?

26:06

Well , if it was the website , yeah

26:09

, they went to the website . There's an address . They

26:11

can mail it directly to me and I put

26:14

in our bank account or they can mail

26:16

it to . I'm under the umbrella

26:18

of an outfit called outdoor buddies . They

26:21

spun out of Craig rehab hospital

26:23

37 years ago . Take wheelchair

26:25

people hunting and fishing . Well

26:27

, they handle all the finances , the banking and

26:30

the IRS reporting so

26:32

and I'm on their board practice

26:34

so they can

26:36

mail to outdoor buddies or to me or

26:39

directly to my accountant , and most that information On

26:42

the website .

26:43

Okay , I'll make sure to link it so that if people

26:46

are curious they could get right to it .

26:48

Yeah , I'd be much appreciated .

26:50

Yeah , I mean more trips , more

26:52

veterans you could have on the

26:54

trips and more people you can hopefully

26:57

save from Taking their own

26:59

life right .

27:00

So super important

27:02

well , it's also I . I

27:05

was there for said you know , you've

27:07

saved a lot of lives , but

27:09

you also salvage a lot of marriages , salaries

27:12

, a lot of people's careers Saving

27:14

lives , which are also salvaging lives . So

27:17

this will get bigger than just save the lives

27:19

.

27:20

Yeah , making the quality of life better .

27:24

Yeah .

27:25

Yeah , it's . I even

27:27

see that when I just go on a regular three

27:30

day camping trip with my friends . You know like

27:33

we come out of it with better

27:35

stories and better connection and you

27:38

know better emotional state .

27:41

And maybe recharged , recognized

27:44

now by the medical people , not

27:47

just in the US but globally

27:49

. Getting out in the woods is very healthy

27:51

. Japanese have been doing it for a long

27:53

time . They call it forest bathing . It's

27:56

kind of prescribed by some of these rec therapists and

27:58

that's what they want to do is get these guys out

28:00

doing something fishing

28:02

or hiking . Yeah .

28:04

Yeah , it's

28:06

like back in the day when people get

28:08

sick and they'd be like oh , your prescription

28:10

is to go to the seaside . I'm

28:13

like I wish that was more common

28:15

now , that they , the doctor , would be like you just need

28:17

to go into nature .

28:18

Goodbye , that's right

28:20

, yeah , you need a river trip

28:23

.

28:24

Yeah , we do . We do mom's

28:26

trips where it's just me and a bunch of my mom's front

28:28

mom friends and you know we leave

28:30

all our kids behind and we all go camping

28:32

together and then we come back

28:35

and we're able to be better moms , you know .

28:37

Yeah , yeah , yeah

28:39

, you're more grounded . You

28:42

know your big problems become

28:44

problems .

28:45

Yeah .

28:46

Get on top of things .

28:48

And the same and same deal . You know , then you , all

28:51

of us moms , get to just talk about our

28:53

kids and our life and all of our things

28:55

with each other , uninterrupted

28:57

in nature , for a weekend , right

29:00

, and that is really powerful . So

29:02

I can imagine for the veterans it's got to

29:04

be so , so powerful .

29:07

The big component of getting back together with

29:09

the guys in the same situation , that

29:11

camaraderie , it's a real

29:13

strong thing . You go through this tough

29:16

times and stress and things like that . You

29:18

get really badly bonded , lifetime

29:20

bonds . I mean I talked to some of these Marines and

29:22

they still talk to you . Yeah , I'm in touch with all my

29:24

guys and you know

29:27

, like 10 or 20 years old surface .

29:30

Yeah Well , how long is the

29:32

deployment usually ? Like how long are you

29:34

on tour with all these same guys

29:36

? I guess it all

29:38

really varies .

29:40

Yeah , it's mostly the same guys , but there

29:42

are multiple deployments . There might be three or four deployments

29:45

and it might be six months or even a year at a time , and

29:49

the composition will change

29:51

a little bit because some of the time

29:53

out no service and some got killed

29:55

, so you get new guys in , but mostly it's the

29:58

same core .

29:59

Yeah , and then how many deployments do

30:01

people usually have ?

30:03

Well , the Marines , they get sent out two or four times

30:05

. They're in four years of propagation

30:07

to be in the military . I

30:11

think I sent you one , dr Krusov

30:13

. He's got the right

30:16

stuff . He had two sons

30:18

who were Marines and one of them got killed in Iraq . So

30:21

Krusov decided at 60

30:23

years of age he was an orthopedic surgeon and truckie

30:25

he decided he would drop

30:28

his practice and

30:30

join the Navy .

30:32

I've also become I

30:35

didn't even know you could do that at 60

30:37

.

30:38

He couldn't , but he tried . He

30:40

wanted to meet a battlefront surgeon and his

30:42

son's human or son , so

30:45

they wouldn't let him join because he couldn't

30:47

pass the age limitation . But

30:49

he had an audience , the president Bersh , along with some of their

30:51

families , and they're falling . Bush asked

30:53

him this is George W , asked

30:55

him if there's anything he or his staff could do for any

30:57

of them , and Krusov said well , yes , or I'm not trying

31:00

to join the Navy , but they tell

31:02

me I'm too old . No

31:04

offense , we're younger than you are . So

31:06

Bush got him in I don't know what you call

31:08

it the labor and he spent six

31:10

years in the Navy .

31:11

Wow .

31:13

Battlefront surgeon . He said he was on our crew

31:15

. He was telling me about it . He said the

31:17

trauma treatment in those units

31:19

is the best in the world , in part because we've

31:21

got so much experience , we see so much

31:23

, you know so many injuries . He

31:26

said if they bring a guy in and he's got

31:28

a heartbeat , we got a 98%

31:30

chance of saving what's left of him 98%

31:33

, wow . He

31:35

said he saw a lot of multiple

31:37

amputations . They even

31:39

treated civilians who got injured

31:41

in the battle .

31:43

I guess the best way

31:45

if someone wants to get involved with you is to

31:47

go on the website and email . Yeah , is

31:51

there any other things you want

31:53

people to know about

31:55

? You know your program and

31:57

this work with veterans .

31:59

Well , it's free for the veterans Once they

32:01

get the Moab . We don't want to get involved in all the confusion

32:04

about air travel . Everything once they get the

32:06

Moab is covered and they're going to

32:08

like it . I mean just close there

32:10

with a few more comments . Gloria

32:13

is tipping the lifetime . Thank

32:15

you for changing my life , more of

32:17

the best things I've ever done . I

32:20

can't tell you how much these trips change my life

32:22

. The new

32:24

great memories have helped drown out and muffled

32:26

many bad old wounds . Thanks

32:28

for making a blind guy Enjoy a great week

32:30

. This adventure helped me in

32:33

ways no modern medicine can . It was amazing People

32:36

I've met on the trip this guy was from Scotland , actually

32:38

People that on the trip and change my life completely

32:41

. It was only at Christmas that I tried to commit

32:43

suicide because my PTSD was so bad I

32:45

couldn't take it anymore . I felt extremely

32:47

down to press pretty much every day until

32:49

I came on the trip . I would just want to

32:51

say again for a fantastic life changing experience

32:54

called my

32:56

guys talk about the river trip every day . The

32:58

rap trip completely changed my life . This

33:01

is one of the greatest adventures in my life . This

33:04

has been a life changing experience , so it has

33:06

a positive impact and it's a lot

33:08

of fun rewarding .

33:10

I bet it's so beautiful too , and you

33:12

go to Petra Gliffs right . I saw there's optional

33:14

hiking . There's everything you could want , I'm going

33:16

to keep the campfire going .

33:17

That's midnight . Charging the bottom of the fire pan

33:19

. Keep those guys talking . Nice , that's

33:22

very healthy .

33:23

Campfire chats . They're a special thing . Do

33:26

you think you'll do this forever ? Do you think you'll

33:28

just keep running these trips as long as you can ?

33:30

Well , as long as I can . I mean , I'm not young

33:32

and more significant when I get a lot of

33:34

miles on me . I've been with

33:36

plane crash and got three feet up

33:39

and other things

33:41

. Yeah , I'm

33:43

still going . I got Scandinavian jeans

33:45

, so I'm holding up pretty good .

33:48

Nice . Yeah , I mean a hundred trips

33:51

. That's crazy . Yeah , I've

33:54

only done one rafting trip in my life . I'm

33:56

really missing out . I got to get on it .

34:00

They're good for you .

34:02

The memory yeah , I've always wanted to wrap

34:04

down the Grand Canyon . That looks

34:06

incredible , yeah

34:08

.

34:09

Yeah , cadrex , bigger

34:12

water , the shorter trip . You know what

34:14

? It's a grand . It's a week , I don't know 10 days or

34:16

two weeks . It's

34:19

a lot for some soldiers to do that . For

34:22

some of them it's four day trip and about ride . Some

34:24

of them could use it a little bit longer

34:28

. Cadrex , logistically is easy for us

34:30

. You come into Moab

34:32

, you can find a Moab , you can drive in and you can

34:34

get on the river right there and then you get off of

34:36

Lake Powell . That's two hours back to Moab . So

34:39

logistically it's easy . The Grand is much more

34:41

remote . Moab

34:43

is kind of a hub of a lot

34:45

of activities , a lot going on , and

34:48

there's an outfit that runs zip lines . There are

34:50

six links . Two of them

34:53

are over 1,300 feet . They

34:55

get going really fast and

34:57

so you put all your soldiers up on zip lines

34:59

up on top of the Stuprock .

35:01

Whoa , that's got to be crazy .

35:03

Challenges on them ? Yeah , I'd be terrified .

35:07

And the Canyonlands is so beautiful . I

35:09

mean , Utah is magic like that

35:11

.

35:12

Yeah .

35:13

Well , thanks so much . Your stories are amazing .

35:15

We're good talking .

35:18

Thank you so much , fred . It's been a pleasure

35:20

to hear all of your stories and the stories

35:22

of all the folks that you've helped along the way

35:25

. Fred did send me a

35:27

really beautiful photo book of

35:29

all of their expeditions in 2022

35:31

and it's really heartening

35:33

to see all of the smiling faces and

35:35

the photos of hiking and petroglyphs

35:38

and abandoned cabins

35:40

and the rapids . My favorite section

35:43

is the all-female grafting

35:45

trips , and there's some great

35:47

quotes in here from Desolation

35:50

Canyon and I just wanted to share one

35:52

that kind of makes me want to cry . Women

35:54

are strong , and together they are stronger

35:57

. Seeing them be okay with themselves in

35:59

this beautiful place is one of the best things

36:01

to witness . Thank you always for this opportunity

36:03

. Fred shared a bunch of photos

36:06

with me that will be on our blog

36:08

post and link will be in our show notes , and

36:10

I'll also take some photos of this really

36:12

cool photo book so that we can

36:14

kind of get a glimpse into the

36:17

beauty of the canyon and these connections and

36:19

the ceiling place . Okay

36:21

, before we go into my favorite

36:23

segment , what I like about the rest we

36:26

need to take a minute to shout

36:28

out our amazing sponsors

36:30

. Our stellar 2023

36:32

sponsors include our impact

36:35

sponsor , first Bank , the

36:37

largest globally owned banking organization

36:39

in Colorado . We'd also like

36:41

to thank our premier sponsors , solap

36:43

and Vision Ridge partners , our

36:45

signature sponsors Denver Water

36:47

and Kind Design , and our supporting

36:49

sponsors Great Outdoors Colorado

36:52

and Jones Co Modern

36:54

Look Tile . As

36:56

we're coming into 2024 , it is the

36:58

perfect time to become a new sponsor

37:00

of both Western Resource Advocates

37:02

and this podcast . Your

37:04

organization is interested in finding

37:07

a link to find out more in our

37:09

show notes . Also , listeners

37:11

, before we go into what I like about the

37:13

less , I wanted to give you one more reminder

37:15

. We're always trying to make this podcast better

37:17

and we do that by reading your reviews . You

37:20

can leave us a review by going to rapeispodcastcom

37:23

. Slash two degrees . Thank you so much

37:25

. It's time

37:27

for what I like about the West . This

37:30

is our last one for this season

37:32

and for the year , and

37:34

Kristy , who is the director

37:36

of marketing and communications here at

37:39

Western Resource Advocates , offered

37:41

her what I like about the West . She wanted

37:43

to be included before the

37:45

end of the year , which is awesome , so

37:48

right now we're going to listen to what Kristy

37:50

has to say about the West

37:52

.

37:56

What I love about the West is that

37:58

I live in one of the largest cities in the

38:00

country , but I can walk out my

38:02

front door and in less than

38:04

half a mile I can be at the Thunderbird

38:06

Conservation Park , which is more

38:08

than 1100 acres of desert

38:10

mountain landscapes filled with

38:12

hiking trails , wildlife

38:14

, cactus and other local plants , and

38:17

even sometimes of the year , there's beautiful

38:19

wildflowers . I love

38:22

that my kids and I can so easily enjoy

38:24

it all the amazing open spaces we

38:26

have in the Southwest and experience

38:28

the incredible wildlife . We've

38:30

seen ducks , quail , tortoises

38:33

, herons , owls , heela

38:35

monsters , geckos and egrets

38:37

. We even spotted a bald eagle

38:39

flying overhead the mountains near our home earlier

38:42

this year , and the whole

38:44

point of living in Arizona , with all of

38:46

the days of sunshine , is to

38:48

spend time outdoors and enjoy nature

38:50

, so that is what motivates

38:52

me to do this work and to work alongside

38:55

our incredible team of experts at WRA

38:57

to fight climate change and its

38:59

impacts for generations to come

39:02

.

39:06

Thanks so much , kristy . I love that you're

39:08

closing this out for the seeder this year

39:11

. All right , everybody . This

39:13

podcast is created by

39:15

Western Resource Advocates . We

39:17

are fighting climate change to sustain

39:19

the economy , the people , the

39:21

environment of the West . You want to find

39:24

out more about our work ? Just click the

39:26

link in our show notes and see what

39:28

we're doing every day on the state level to

39:30

protect this beautiful Western landscape

39:32

. I'm your host , justin Chanisey , the multimedia

39:35

storyteller here at WRA , and

39:37

, as always , it's been great to spend time with

39:39

you all . Thank you so much for listening . We

39:42

have some great new podcasts in the works

39:44

for 2024 and a new season

39:47

, and I hope we'll tune

39:49

in in the new year . Have a beautiful

39:51

holiday season . Bye

39:53

, y'all .