2:02

Wendell had a name for him, Jackie

2:05

Robinson. The

2:09

rest is history. Jackie

2:12

Robinson would go on to break baseball's color

2:14

barrier. But that

2:17

is only part of the story.

2:27

From ABC Audio,

2:30

this is Reclaim, the Forgotten

2:32

League.

2:34

I'm Vanessa Ivy Rose.

2:38

Episode 4, Crossing

2:41

the Line.

2:47

Change doesn't just happen all at once. There

2:50

are specific events that usher it in. While

2:53

Jackie and Branch are the faces of baseball

2:55

integration,

2:56

they didn't do it alone.

2:59

In the 1930s, there was a movement

3:01

happening across the country for the rights of Black

3:03

people in every pocket of society,

3:06

housing, education, and

3:09

wages. America's

3:12

favorite pastime became a focus, too. It

3:15

wasn't just Wendell and other Black writers who

3:18

were demanding an end to segregated baseball.

3:21

It was also progressive white journalists, unions,

3:24

and even the Communist Party. Plus,

3:28

if Jesse Owens, a Black man,

3:31

could represent the United States at the 1936 Olympics,

3:33

and young

3:35

Black Americans could go to war in Europe to

3:38

defend American values, why

3:40

couldn't they play baseball with their white

3:42

counterparts? Why couldn't

3:44

my grandfather play in Detroit, Michigan, for

3:47

the Tigers? It

3:49

was these questions that led to the headlines

3:51

in the Black press calling for an end

3:54

to baseball's color barrier.

3:56

There were petitions and picketers in front

3:58

of ballparks like Yankee Stadium. in New York

4:01

and Wrigley Field in Chicago. The

4:03

time was ripe for change. Finally.

4:09

Branch Rickey knew it too.

4:11

By 1945, he had held

4:13

leadership roles in baseball

4:15

for over 30 years,

4:17

first as a manager

4:19

and later as a general manager and team president.

4:21

And he had already created

4:24

the farm system, essentially

4:26

a way to secure top-tier talent for cheap.

4:29

Branch was known for having a nose for talent

4:32

and for being a shrewd businessman. Both

4:35

of those came into play when he set his sights on

4:37

Negro League's players.

4:40

Now, it's hard to determine what's inside

4:42

a man's heart.

4:44

Branch was far from a civil rights trailblazer.

4:47

He was a fierce conservative

4:49

who

4:49

once compared the Negro Leagues

4:51

to a racket.

4:53

But he also believed integrating baseball

4:56

was the right thing to do. And

4:58

he saw an opportunity to make a lot of

5:00

money doing it. Major

5:04

League Baseball's first commissioner, Kennesaw

5:07

Mountain Landis, died the

5:09

year before.

5:10

And a fresh commissioner

5:11

brought a new perspective.

5:15

While he denied it publicly, many

5:17

believed that Landis perpetuated the owner's

5:20

gentleman's agreement, which kept black

5:22

players out of the league. The

5:25

new commissioner, Albert Happy

5:27

Chandler, might be more open

5:29

to integrating the leagues. Happy

5:32

Chandler shared his thoughts about Landis in

5:34

a 1980 interview with the University

5:37

of Kentucky. Judge Landis was an

5:39

unusual fellow. And he

5:44

was wrong about the black thing, but

5:47

they were all wrong about it. And he was just

5:49

doing what they wanted

5:51

him to do about that because of how...

5:53

Chandler was different. According

5:55

to the Pittsburgh Courier, he wanted

5:57

owners to recruit the best players.

8:00

according to aerosmith a professor

8:02

of american ethnic studies and sociology

8:05

at the university of delaware

8:07

that may him be easy choice

8:09

when branch rickey figured out

8:11

that he could pull in somebody like jackie

8:13

robinson carefully said

8:15

it you know a college graduate a

8:18

military person somebody

8:21

who understood structure

8:25

he wasn't a while then loose quote

8:27

unquote liked the stereotype

8:29

of the african american male

8:32

the dodgers die jackie out with a tap

8:34

minor league team and marcial canada and

8:37

nineteen forty six a

8:39

return to ease the twenty seven year old and

8:43

he played really

8:45

well as

8:48

the end of the season he led the league

8:50

with a three forty nine batting average twenty

8:52

five doubles as triples

8:55

three home runs sixty six

8:57

rb eyes and forty seven days

9:00

and he was well received by players and

9:02

fans in canada france

9:05

was convinced that jackie was ready for the big

9:07

stage and by him the

9:09

brooklyn that play the next year jackie

9:12

robinson had done it he

9:14

arrived

9:15

in a nineteen seventy

9:17

two interviews on a dick cavett

9:19

sounds sexy reflected

9:21

on how he in france had made history

9:24

together i don't think anybody

9:27

could have done the job have not been from a circus

9:30

he was constantly advising him guiding

9:32

him i have some was confidence in him i

9:34

would have jumped off the bridge if he told me to do with

9:36

us that hamas i believe any

9:40

that the dodgers

9:41

jackie brown baseball sixty year color

9:43

barrier but the game had

9:45

to break him in the process

9:50

be the first anything is never easy

9:53

that's especially true when you're black in america

9:56

jackie face racists attacks from both the players

9:58

in the lead and the fans. Teams

10:02

threatened the boycott if he played, and

10:05

there were death threats against his family. Even

10:08

though Jackie was chosen for his mental toughness,

10:11

mistreatment like that inevitably

10:13

takes a toll.

10:14

You know, have people spit on you and call

10:17

you names and spit on your wife

10:19

when she's sitting in the stand just watching

10:21

the game. All that crap.

10:25

Now we have fancy words for PTSD

10:28

and, you know, anxiety,

10:30

et cetera.

10:32

What made it even harder was that Jackie had

10:34

to show restraint and remain poised.

10:36

Jackie made a promise to

10:39

Branch Rickey during his first meeting in Brooklyn.

10:42

Branch told Jackie, I'm looking

10:44

for a ball player with guts enough not to fight

10:46

back. He knew it wouldn't work

10:48

if Jackie reacted to what was sure to come

10:50

his way. Branch watched

10:52

Jackie's unbelievable mental strength on the field.

10:56

Game after game, Jackie ignored

10:58

vile racist taunts. But

11:00

before the start of his third season with the Dodgers,

11:04

Branch told him he no longer had to play by

11:06

those rules. He just needed

11:08

to play along in the beginning to ensure

11:10

integration was a success. Jackie

11:13

Robinson began to speak out about blatant racism.

11:17

He wasn't the agreeable black guy anymore.

11:20

He began disputing calls on the field, and

11:23

off the field, he became more visible

11:25

in the Civil Rights Movement, even after

11:27

retiring from baseball. Here's

11:30

Jackie at a civil rights rally. Let

11:33

everybody know that we really

11:35

are at the crossroads. They can no

11:37

longer sit on the fence. They've

11:39

got to get off of it and join the struggle if

11:42

we are to achieve

11:43

equality and freedom in our time. By 1949, there

11:45

were 10 other former Negro

11:49

Leagues players in the Major Leagues, according

11:51

to the Center for Negro League Baseball

11:53

Research. including

12:01

Satchel Paige and Monte Ervin.

12:04

Shaquia Taylor, the sports and culture

12:07

editor at the Chicago Tribune, says

12:09

it was a long road for other black

12:11

players.

12:12

It took until, I believe, 1959 for every team that

12:17

was a part of the league at that time to

12:19

integrate. That's 12 years.

12:23

The last team was the Boston Red Sox with

12:25

Pumpsy Green.

12:25

And I think about

12:28

him constantly because of that.

12:30

He had such a negative experience

12:32

in professional baseball, and he's

12:35

not talked about. We focus on the first.

12:38

Everyone seemed to think, oh, goodness, things

12:40

must be better because Jackie

12:42

already went through that, but it wasn't

12:44

the case at all. The first

12:46

black player to join the Boston Red Sox in 1959 still

12:50

couldn't step onto the field at a major league game

12:53

without fear of being threatened. By

12:56

many accounts, he didn't really

12:58

want to

12:59

be there. He didn't want to

13:01

be the person to integrate a team because

13:04

why would he? Why would anyone

13:07

willingly put themselves in

13:10

a position to deal with threats

13:12

of violence and name calling

13:15

when you just want to play a game?

13:19

Jackie Robinson had already retired

13:21

by the time the Boston Red Sox begrudgingly

13:24

allowed a black player to join their all

13:26

white team. And they

13:29

had only done so after the Massachusetts

13:31

Commission Against Discrimination threatened

13:33

to take legal action for discriminatory hiring

13:36

practices.

13:37

How welcome could Pumpsy have felt? He

13:40

couldn't even stay in the same hotel as his team

13:43

and was forced to find his own miles

13:45

from where his teammates stayed. The baseball

13:50

had begun

13:53

integrating before the rest of America did. When Branch Rickey signed

13:55

Jackie Robinson in 1990,

13:59

in 1947,

14:01

black children couldn't attend school with white children

14:03

and their parents were still being

14:05

forced to sit in the back of the bus.

14:09

The landmark Brown versus Board of Education

14:11

case didn't happen until seven

14:13

years after Jackie signed his contract. And

14:16

the ruling of Browder versus Gale, which

14:19

made segregated buses illegal, didn't

14:22

happen until two years after that.

14:25

So black players were left to do the hard work

14:28

that came with baseball's integration.

14:31

They were willing to put up with mistreatment because

14:34

playing in the major leagues had been the dream

14:36

for many of them. Maybe

14:39

it was human nature to want

14:41

something that doesn't want you. They

14:44

were willing to endure for the love of the game

14:47

and the opportunities it promised. Many

14:50

black players in the Negro Leagues long to be seen

14:52

as equal, or at the very

14:54

least, just seen. And

14:59

slowly, they were

15:01

seen and poached. Owners

15:05

in the Major League went after the Negro

15:07

League star players. 96-year-old

15:10

former outfielder, Ron Teasley, was

15:12

a witness to all of this.

15:15

Then all of a sudden they come along and say, well,

15:18

we're going to start taking your star players

15:22

like Jackie Robinson, Roy Campanella,

15:25

Don Newcomb and those guys. And

15:27

all of a sudden now, the fans almost

15:29

immediately started abandoning

15:33

Negro League baseball and waiting to see Jackie

15:36

Robinson and other

15:39

players like that.

15:40

The Major League owners, in essence, raided

15:43

the Negro League's locker room for the best of

15:45

the best and offered these players

15:47

contracts that the Negro League's owners

15:50

couldn't compete with. It

15:52

was clear that Major League owners didn't think much

15:54

of Negro League owners. Here's

15:57

Shakia Taylor again.

16:00

poach players from the Negro

16:02

Leagues, they would simply take them. There

16:05

would be no negotiation with owners.

16:08

Owners would receive no recompense

16:12

in the situations. Players would get the

16:14

promise of playing in Major

16:16

League and they would get money and they would

16:18

leave. But

16:21

some Negro League team owners fought back. Efam

16:25

Manley and her husband, Abraham Manley,

16:27

owned the Newark Eagles. Abe

16:31

gave her plenty of room to lead.

16:33

Abe didn't run the team. Efam

16:35

ran the team. She took care

16:38

of everything, the everyday,

16:41

you know, day-to-day operations of the team and her

16:43

husband just funded it.

16:45

And because of that, she was one

16:47

of the

16:47

most powerful

16:50

women in baseball.

16:51

She wasn't afraid to fight.

16:53

She had no choice.

16:56

When she saw Branson and Jackie Robinson

16:58

without paying the Monarchs one cent,

17:00

she knew what that meant for her business.

17:04

Here she is in a 1977 interview

17:06

with the University of Kentucky.

17:08

No, when he took those three

17:11

Negro boys to run Negro baseball

17:14

and didn't give her five cents or say

17:16

thank you, Jackie Robinson, Roy

17:18

San Remella, and Don Newcomb.

17:20

Efam's fight paid off.

17:22

She sold the contract of one of her star players,

17:25

Larry Dobie, to the Cleveland

17:27

Indians for a reported $15,000.

17:32

It was still far less than a team would pay for

17:34

a white player, but it was far better

17:37

than what some other Negro League team owners

17:39

got. Many teams

17:41

sold players at a fraction of the cost

17:43

to make sure they at least got something.

17:46

Efam had a lot of power

17:48

and heart. She didn't just love

17:51

the game. She loved the Negro League

17:53

players too. Efam's

17:55

success at getting herself and her players

17:57

what they deserve

17:58

was remarkable.

18:00

She made sure her players were paid

18:02

and even helped them secure jobs in the off season.

18:06

It's interesting that Efah Manley, as

18:08

a woman in professional

18:10

baseball, was the person who

18:12

was demanding more

18:15

not only for owners but for players as

18:17

well. Efah Manley

18:19

is

18:20

the first and only

18:22

woman inducted into the National

18:24

Baseball Hall of Fame.

18:28

And as hard as Efah and other

18:30

Negro Leagues owners fought for their players

18:32

and teams, they were facing an

18:34

entirely new world. The

18:37

Negro Leagues were birthed from a place of exclusion.

18:41

They were a yes

18:42

when America screamed,

18:44

no. They made their

18:46

own rules and played by them.

18:48

And that worked.

18:50

The Negro Leagues even flourished.

18:53

But now, all that was in jeopardy.

18:56

The institution that refused to see their greatness

18:59

had suddenly changed its mind about them. And

19:03

that decision

19:05

threatened their existence.

19:13

The Black Baseball Leagues fought hard.

19:16

Teams struggled to hold on as their star

19:18

players, those who drew the largest

19:21

crowds, began to disappear

19:23

from their rosters. Players

19:26

didn't have the money to replace them. And

19:28

ticket sales declined. Money

19:31

was drying

19:31

up. And the value of the teams

19:34

plummeted. And soon, team

19:36

by team, the leagues themselves began

19:39

to collapse.

19:41

I would even say integration

19:45

expedited the downfall

19:48

of the Negro Leagues. It didn't happen immediately.

19:51

It took time. But it definitely happened

19:54

reasonably fast. It was within a decade

19:57

that

19:57

we started to see just the

19:59

decline.

19:59

kind of interest

20:02

in Negro teams simply because

20:04

people could go watch the majors. They were watching

20:07

integrated baseballs.

20:11

Gus Greenlee's

20:12

Negro National League disbanded in 1948. It

20:16

morphed into the Negro American League. But

20:18

that also struggled through the 1950s as

20:21

star players were plucked from the league. What

20:25

was once thought of as a dream for

20:27

many, the integration of baseball,

20:30

had become a nightmare.

20:33

The Negro Leagues took years to build, but

20:35

were dismantled in a fraction of the time without

20:38

care

20:39

or consideration.

20:43

And the collapse of the Negro Leagues devastated

20:45

the Black economy. As

20:47

the Leagues died, the attendance

20:49

numbers for big gains

20:51

declined.

20:52

It affected owners and communities financially.

20:55

There's a loss of ticket sales, loss of entertainment,

20:58

loss of, you know, just that value

21:01

is now being put into the

21:04

integrated professional teams.

21:07

The Negro Leagues allowed the Black dollar

21:09

to be reinvested back into Black communities

21:12

and businesses. But integration

21:14

interrupted that and ultimately

21:16

cost Black people control.

21:18

Control over the sport,

21:20

control over money,

21:22

and control over their futures.

21:26

The decline of the Negro Leagues had a direct effect on players

21:28

too. The Negro Leagues had over 3,000

21:30

Black players. By 1953,

21:32

there were only 36 Negro League

21:34

players in the major leagues. And

21:39

of 16 teams, only six had

21:41

Black players. That's

21:45

a lot of Black players left behind, with

21:47

no place to play or work.

21:49

Or work.

21:51

While Negro Leaguers were paid substantially

21:53

less than their white counterparts in the majors,

21:57

their salaries were still solid in comparison

21:59

to what the average amount of money was.

21:59

was earning.

22:02

They had to find a new way to earn income and

22:04

their options were limited

22:06

to mostly blue-collar labor-intensive

22:09

jobs with lower paychecks.

22:13

The part of this story that hits me the hardest

22:15

are the players who were left behind.

22:18

Those were big dreams. Some

22:20

of them definitely wished

22:23

that their careers,

22:24

you know, had gone

22:26

into Major League Baseball. So

22:29

by the time they would have, a lot

22:31

were too old, a lot just

22:34

weren't even considered.

22:36

And others like Satchel Page would

22:38

join the Major Leagues when they were past their

22:40

prime.

22:42

He was in his 40s when he joined the Cleveland

22:44

Indians in 1948 and became the first African-American

22:48

pitcher to pitch in the World Series.

22:52

He went on to play with the St. Louis Browns

22:54

before returning to the Miners and barnstorming.

22:57

He actually barnstormed well into his 60s.

23:00

To him, age was just a number.

23:04

He is considered one of the greatest pitchers of all

23:06

time, but imagine if he played

23:08

for the Major Leagues in his heyday.

23:11

What would a 25-year-old

23:11

Page have done to the game if

23:14

he had been included earlier in his career?

23:17

There were so many others who didn't get to show

23:19

their best on the biggest stage, like

23:22

my grandpa Turkey, who stopped playing

23:25

in 1945, two

23:27

years before Jackie Robinson was signed

23:29

to the majors.

23:34

Many of the Negro League players did

23:36

what people think they should do when they reach a certain

23:38

age,

23:39

floating to obscurity.

23:41

Popular players once known for hitting home runs

23:44

or throwing lightning speed pitches

23:47

had morphed into average guys headed

23:49

to work like everyone else in the neighborhood.

23:52

Many built their lives around their reputation

23:55

and baseball persona.

23:57

They were a part of a well-respected and admired

23:59

league. and recognized by the jersey

24:01

they proudly wore.

24:03

But who were they without baseball?

24:07

On top of losing their identities and

24:09

having to find new ways to make a living,

24:12

former players didn't have a financial cushion.

24:15

Some ultimately did receive a pension from

24:17

Major League Baseball years later, but

24:20

others,

24:21

like Ron Teasley, didn't.

24:23

For some reason, they

24:26

said, if you played up until 1947, if

24:31

you played in just one game, you

24:34

would get a pension. I

24:36

played in 1948. 1948 was

24:39

the year that the Negro League really

24:42

ended.

24:44

My grandfather didn't get a pension either.

24:47

He died years before MLB implemented

24:50

pension plans for Negro League veterans.

24:53

When he first moved to Detroit, he

24:56

worked in an auto plant that was owned by a man

24:58

named Walter Briggs Sr.

25:00

Briggs also owned the Detroit Tigers,

25:02

the second to last team to integrate. I'm

25:06

not sure how my grandfather did that, how

25:08

he showed up to a job every

25:10

day for a man who didn't consider

25:13

him good enough to play for his team, but

25:15

good enough to work in his factory. But

25:18

somehow, he

25:20

did it. After

25:23

he retired from baseball,

25:25

he returned to auto plant work, and

25:27

it was not

25:28

an easy job for his golden years.

25:31

He worked in the foundry.

25:33

It was a very, very

25:36

tough place to work.

25:39

The foundry was where molten

25:41

metal was pressed into car parts.

25:44

It was hot and dangerous and

25:47

excruciatingly loud.

25:50

My granddad, a quiet

25:52

man,

25:53

in one of the noisiest jobs in Detroit,

25:56

ended up with severe hearing loss by the

25:58

end of his time there. But

26:00

apparently, he

26:02

never complained. When

26:06

he finally retired from the foundry,

26:08

he wanted to stay busy,

26:10

so he got a job managing a laundromat

26:12

near the house. His life

26:14

was quiet

26:15

and simple.

26:18

My Aunt Rosalind was born a year after he

26:20

retired from the Negro Leagues

26:22

and my mother joists a little more than a year after

26:24

her.

26:25

If he wasn't working,

26:27

he was with our family or at a

26:29

Tigers game. That's what filled

26:31

up his days after the Negro Leagues. He

26:34

would take the bus to Tiger Stadium and

26:36

watch all the games. He

26:38

liked to sit in the stands with the regular people. He

26:41

was never looking for attention or accolades

26:43

or special treatment. He just

26:45

wanted to see the game. In

26:48

the same way that my granddad faded into the

26:51

background, so did the Negro

26:53

Leagues.

26:54

The legends,

26:55

the players, and their stories were

26:57

lost.

26:59

Most people just know about Jackie Robinson.

27:04

But decades later, Negro League players

27:07

have a second chance to be seen.

27:09

Not just through oral stories passed down from

27:11

generation to generation,

27:13

but through stats.

27:15

These numbers allow us to see just

27:17

how

27:17

good these players really were. Players

27:21

like Kevin Johnson have tapped these players back

27:23

from the dead.

27:24

Kevin is a baseball researcher, historian,

27:28

and co-founder of the SeamHeads Negro

27:30

League database.

27:31

Hey, how are you, Kevin? Well,

27:33

hello. Nice to

27:35

meet you. Yeah,

27:37

we met very briefly in Detroit

27:40

a couple years ago, I think. Right,

27:42

what was that, 2014? Kevin's

27:45

website, SeamHeads, is

27:48

a place where Negro League stats live. Kevin

27:51

and others like him have spent many long

27:54

hours gathering Negro League facts and figures

27:56

from the depths of library archives and

27:59

newspaper. fuel feature. Everything

28:02

is evidence from

28:07

target.

28:09

Here

28:13

s what happens. Kevin and his colleagues might get

28:16

a hit-off but there is a game from

28:32

1926 between the Monarchs and the Black Barrens.

28:35

It s a game they know about

28:37

but they ve never been able to track down the final score.

28:40

Someone from the Army of Volunteers will say,

28:42

I ll get that one and

28:45

drive out to see if the tip-off is true.

28:47

They ll press their eye close to

28:49

the tiny faded local newspaper

28:51

s sports section from 100 years

28:54

ago and

28:55

sometimes, but not always.

28:58

They strike gold.

29:01

What they re looking for is a box

29:03

score, a tiny table with

29:05

the final game score. Ideally,

29:08

this will tell them how many runs were

29:10

scored,

29:11

who scored them,

29:12

who made the catches, and who

29:14

pitched the inning. Then

29:16

they get to add this new data into their spreadsheets.

29:19

One more piece of the puzzle of understanding

29:21

the Negro League players.

29:23

Oh, well, new box scores are always feeling

29:25

great. Probably the

29:28

real diamonds are the

29:30

player information. There

29:33

could be some times where we start

29:35

out and we only know a player s last name and we

29:37

don t know anything else because that s all the box scores

29:39

are showing. Then you

29:42

get a little blurb somewhere where you

29:45

ve been reading the box score and there s this guy

29:47

named Wood. Then you get

29:50

a little blurb on the side that says Joe

29:52

Wood, who came from Alabama,

29:56

has been playing good shortstop lately. Well,

29:58

those are really

30:00

Uh, great to find because then

30:02

Kevin says that's where the stats

30:04

transform into something else. The

30:07

stats give you a story about a person. When's

30:09

his birthday?

30:10

Uh, you know, where was he born? When

30:13

did he die? Uh, where's

30:15

he buried? All that stuff that we want

30:17

to try to capture about the player,

30:20

uh, can, can come from just

30:22

a little side blurb sometimes.

30:25

So those are the ones I guess I get excited

30:27

about. There wasn't a uniform

30:30

process for Negro Leagues record keeping.

30:32

So dedicated researchers like Kevin and

30:35

the Negro Leagues Committee at the Society for

30:37

American Baseball Research have

30:40

done and continue to do the painstaking

30:42

and important work of gathering data.

30:45

Some people have a kind of try to create

30:47

a stats versus stories

30:50

thing with the Negro League, but I don't think that's

30:52

really the way to look at it.

30:54

Baseball loves stats, maybe

30:57

more than any other American sport. It's

31:00

the cornerstone of the leagues. Fans

31:02

study their favorite player stats

31:04

from total bases

31:06

to batting averages

31:07

to earn run averages

31:09

and commit them to memory for heated conversations

31:12

about the best of the best. Sports

31:15

commentators and analysts dissect

31:17

these numbers and use them to quantify

31:19

their opinions and predictions or

31:21

simply to win a debate. Baseball's

31:24

obsession with statistics is unique

31:26

in that way.

31:28

If you talk about like the NFL,

31:31

you don't really hear much about, oh, in the 1950s, this

31:35

quarterback had the statistics, right? They don't,

31:37

they're more in the present. The same for

31:39

like the NBA, but baseball is

31:42

different.

31:43

If you ask a baseball fanatic to list the

31:45

best player to ever play, some

31:47

might mention Negro Leaguers who made it to MLB

31:50

like Satchel Paige, but you'd be

31:52

hard pressed to hear my grandfather's name or

31:55

other Negro League greats like first baseman Buck

31:57

Leonard or

31:58

cool Papa Bell who

31:59

is

31:59

considered one of the fastest runners ever.

32:03

This is why stats are so important in baseball.

32:05

They drive the narrative. But

32:08

here's the tricky part.

32:10

We found the ones that are easy to find, but it's

32:12

those hard ones that somebody's gotta

32:14

go and find and those will

32:16

be, you know, we'll get pretty excited

32:19

when we find some of those.

32:21

Hard ones like Charlie Blackwell, who

32:23

played in the 1920s.

32:25

There's little information about the Negro League's right

32:28

fielder, but what is known is

32:30

impressive.

32:32

In 2021, ABC News is 538,

32:36

published an article comparing the stats of Negro

32:38

Leaguers

32:39

to Major Leaguers.

32:41

It said Charlie Blackwell could be considered

32:43

as good as Dave Ruth.

32:47

Kevin says there's still so many more

32:49

player statistics to be found,

32:51

still part of the puzzle missing.

32:53

And even if they can be found,

32:56

some stats are difficult to quantify.

32:59

We can see that, you know, if the statistics

33:01

say that

33:04

Homestead Grays played 80 games,

33:07

and these are the statistics,

33:09

we don't know which 80 games they decided

33:11

were the league games because

33:14

that wasn't always clear. And

33:16

we don't know, so we don't know which games make that

33:19

up and what box scores go with those 80

33:21

games.

33:22

Some Negro Leaguers played in multiple leagues

33:24

in a single year.

33:26

Plus,

33:27

the Negro League seasons were shorter,

33:29

so they played fewer games than the majors.

33:31

And remember Burnstorming?

33:34

There was a lot of that going on.

33:36

And there were the foreign games.

33:38

My granddad, like many Negro Leaguers,

33:40

played in Cuba during the winter months. The

33:43

stats for these games, even if we had

33:45

them, would be nearly impossible

33:47

to count. But shouldn't they count

33:50

for something? Some played

33:52

their best in those games.

33:55

Despite the hurdles, Kevin has

33:57

still managed

33:57

to track down something very special.

34:01

Do you have any examples

34:02

of box scores I can see? Oh,

34:05

yes, I do. I

34:08

do. Matter of fact, it involves

34:10

Turkey Stearns. Okay.

34:13

Now we're talking. Now we're talking.

34:16

So this is actually an article

34:20

from the Chicago Defender in July of 1929.

34:25

So we see the first game, which was a 20

34:27

to six win for Detroit. It

34:30

mentions Stearns, Maist,

34:32

a homer

34:34

over the right field fence. Let's go,

34:36

grandpa. Let's go. That's what I'm talking

34:38

about. Yeah. And we

34:40

go down to the Sunday game here and

34:42

we're going to see Turkey Stearns again.

34:45

Stearns ramming out his second homer

34:48

of the game and his third of the day.

34:50

So he, in the double header, he hit one in

34:52

the first game. He hit two in

34:54

the second game after hitting

34:57

one the day before. So there are

34:59

three games. He's already up

35:02

to four home runs.

35:06

The article also mentions that my granddad

35:08

played great defense.

35:10

I was always told he was a great all around player.

35:13

So I love getting

35:13

more confirmation of that. For

35:16

this series of games against Chicago, which

35:18

was a rival team for Detroit,

35:21

my granddad went 11 for 18,

35:22

hit four home runs

35:25

and had 15 RBIs. Since

35:29

there's no footage of him playing,

35:31

I often close my eyes to see him running

35:34

those bases.

35:35

I think about how free he likely felt out

35:37

there on the field. No fear,

35:40

no danger, no separation.

35:44

He was able to be his authentic self

35:45

on the field and that's what

35:47

helped him thrive. You

35:50

won't see that on the scorecard. And

35:54

while stats can't measure those

35:55

intangibles, there's still an important

35:57

part of a player's legacy.

36:03

The Negro Leagues were almost lost.

36:07

Oral history is important, but

36:09

for something to live on in baseball,

36:12

stats are crucial.

36:15

History has a whole chapter on Jackie,

36:18

but barely a page for my granddad and

36:20

players like him. The

36:22

stats give us the opportunity to

36:24

add some pages to the history

36:26

book.

36:29

History stats help preserve

36:30

the accomplishments of Negro League players,

36:33

but with the findings

36:35

come more issues.

36:37

Because once you know these players are out there

36:39

with these great histories, how

36:41

do you recognize them? We

36:43

got some 8 ball players that should be

36:45

in all the things that played in the Negro Leagues.

36:48

And I thought, well, what an interesting moment this is.

36:50

He was always denied the chance to play

36:53

on this field, but sure enough,

36:55

he was able to watch games here and now

36:57

here he is holding a bat. And he

36:59

started asking for information and he

37:01

said, I need this from your family and I need

37:03

a little biography of your mom and your

37:05

sister and da da da da. I said,

37:07

oh my God, this man is serious.

37:20

Reclaim, the Forgotten League,

37:22

is an original production of ABC Audio

37:25

hosted by me, Vanessa Ivy

37:27

Rose. This episode was written

37:30

by Lakia Brown. The series

37:32

was produced by Madeline Wood, Cameron

37:34

Chertavian, Eru Ekpanobi, Camille

37:37

Peterson and Amira Williams.

37:40

Our senior producers on this project were

37:42

Susie Liu and Lakia Brown. Music

37:45

and scoring by Evan Viola. A

37:48

big shout out to our ABC Audio team,

37:50

Liz Alessi, Josh

37:52

Cohen, Ariel Chester, Sasha

37:55

Aslanian, Marwa Mawa,

37:58

Audrey Bostek, and

37:59

and Erin Ferrer. Special thanks

38:02

to Trish Donovan, Rick Klein,

38:05

Eric

38:05

Payel, Anthony Fanek, Mara

38:07

Bush, and of course, my mom, Joyce

38:10

Stearns Thompson, and my aunt,

38:12

Rosalind Stearns Brown. Laura

38:15

Mayer is our executive producer.