0:00

Hi, 30 for 30 listeners. This

0:02

is Vanessa Ivy Rose, the granddaughter

0:04

of baseball's legendary Norman

0:07

Turkey Stearns.

0:09

And today, we're bringing you the second episode

0:11

of our special ABC podcast series,

0:14

Reclaimed, The Forgotten League.

0:16

If you missed our first episode, you'll

0:19

find it right here in the 30 for 30 podcast

0:21

feed.

0:22

And if you like it,

0:23

you can listen to the rest of the story right

0:25

now by clicking the link in our episode

0:27

description and following

0:29

Reclaimed. We'll be sharing

0:31

the rest of this fascinating six episode

0:34

series in the days to come. It's

0:38

a late September afternoon in 1933.

0:43

It's the bottom of the fourth inning in Chicago's

0:46

Comiskey Park. The

0:48

grandstands are full of 20,000 mostly

0:51

black fans. They're dressed

0:53

in their finest clothing. Some

0:56

have traveled across the country to

0:58

be in the stadium. They're

1:01

here to watch the inaugural East

1:03

West Classic,

1:05

a showcase of the best talent black

1:07

baseball has to offer. All

1:11

eyes are on Mule Suttles, a

1:13

Negro League veteran who is stepping up

1:15

to the plate. He's a giant,

1:18

six foot two and around 220

1:21

pounds, with a swing

1:24

that when it connects, shakes

1:26

the stadium like an

1:27

earthquake. And

1:29

his team is down by two. As

1:32

he approaches the plate, the crowd

1:34

cheers him on with chants of, kick

1:37

Mule, kick. Mule

1:43

cracks one into left field, up,

1:46

up, and into the grandstand.

1:50

The crowd roars. It's

1:52

a two-run homer for the Negro League power hitter

1:55

and the first home run in the history of

1:57

the East West Classic.

3:59

of thousands of Black

4:01

Americans were migrating from the South to

4:03

the North.

4:05

They moved for opportunity

4:07

and built new lives in cities like New York,

4:10

Pittsburgh, Chicago, and

4:12

Detroit.

4:14

That meant there was a ready-made audience

4:16

for Negro League teams.

4:19

Rube Foster founded the Negro National

4:22

League in this environment.

4:24

But

4:25

despite the interest, Rube's

4:27

league wasn't a sure thing.

4:29

To understand why,

4:31

it's helpful to know the differences between baseball

4:34

back then and baseball

4:36

today. When

4:43

we think of baseball today, we think

4:45

of Major League Baseball. MLB

4:48

creates a schedule

4:49

so teams can compete and

4:51

make money

4:52

consistently.

4:54

It also makes sure players get paid

4:56

and stick to their contract. But

4:59

before Rube founded the Negro National League,

5:02

that kind of structure didn't exist for Black Baseball,

5:05

which created all sorts of problems.

5:08

Like, imagine if New

5:10

York Yankees player Aaron Judge broke

5:12

his contract halfway through the season and

5:15

went to play for the Angels. Or,

5:18

what if the Yankees went bankrupt and

5:20

Judge went shopping around to all the other teams

5:23

in search of a job? These

5:25

issues, contract jumping, teams

5:28

folding in the middle of the season, they

5:30

were part of Black Baseball. You

5:32

can see why it was so hard to build a stable

5:34

team or a consistent fan base.

5:42

So during that first Negro National League

5:44

season,

5:45

Rube organized a schedule and set rules

5:47

that required both

5:48

players and owners to honor their

5:50

contracts.

5:52

Rube's rules didn't fix all of the problems,

5:55

but they created the stability Black Baseball

5:57

needed to grow.

6:00

A handful of teams made up the backbone

6:02

of the Negro National League, like

6:05

the Detroit Stars. That's

6:07

a team my grandfather, Turkey, played on. And

6:10

the Chicago American Giants, the

6:12

team Rube Foster managed. The

6:15

Kansas City Monarchs were another must-see

6:17

attraction. Kansas City

6:20

didn't have an MLB team, and so

6:22

when the Kansas City Monarchs were formed in 1920,

6:25

the community rallied around them.

6:27

This was one of the cities where you read

6:29

about, you know, parades when

6:31

the Monarchs came into town. You

6:34

know, a source of huge pride to

6:36

these communities.

6:38

That's Leslie Heephy, an associate

6:40

professor of history at Kent State University.

6:44

Buck O'Neill was a star player for the Kansas City

6:47

Monarchs in the 1930s, and remembered

6:49

how popular and beloved the team was during

6:52

that era. He never

6:55

had talk

6:57

every Sunday morning. In

7:01

the black world, Buck O'Neill changed

7:03

that Sunday morning search. When

7:06

the Monarchs came to town, they

7:09

said this was 10 o'clock

7:11

so they could get to the ball game. And they

7:14

came. They came and bow.

7:18

In some cities,

7:19

Rube's Negro National League was thriving.

7:21

Teams were invested in the

7:23

game, and teams were making a profit.

7:27

But

7:28

not every ball club in Rube's League was so

7:30

successful.

7:31

Some of these teams are on far more

7:34

precarious

7:34

financial footing than others. And

7:37

so what sets a pattern is that

7:39

teams are going to come and go out of the league. Teams

7:42

are going to literally leave and

7:44

come back. Teams are going to leave and fold.

7:47

So lots of seasons you're going to see, you know,

7:49

oh, wait, the same teams that started

7:51

are not the same teams that finished. Or why

7:53

do these teams, when you look at the records, have far

7:55

fewer games played?

7:57

So Rube's League wasn't exactly perfy.

7:59

Some teams thrived, filling

8:02

their stadiums with eager fans. Other

8:05

teams struggled,

8:06

unable to make a profit,

8:08

even with the additional stability.

8:11

But overall,

8:13

the Negro National League made black baseball

8:15

more organized and successful. This

8:20

progress

8:22

didn't last. In 1925,

8:28

Rube's mental health

8:29

began to deteriorate.

8:31

Within a year, he was

8:33

committed to Kankakee State Hospital, a

8:36

mental institution in Illinois.

8:39

Rube was said to

8:40

have worked from 8 a.m. to midnight,

8:43

every day. He

8:45

labored tirelessly for years to

8:48

make the dream of black baseball a reality. While

8:52

we will never know for sure, some

8:54

historians think that the stress of his job

8:57

contributed to his mental decline.

9:01

Rube's sudden departure rocked the Negro National

9:03

League. The league continued

9:06

on without its leader. But when

9:08

the Great Depression hit,

9:09

the league couldn't withstand the financial

9:11

pressure and folded.

9:15

In 1930, while still

9:17

committed to Kankakee State Hospital, Andrew

9:20

Rube Foster died of a heart attack. He was 51 years old.

9:26

Over 3,000 people attended his funeral

9:28

in Chicago. Standing

9:31

out in the rain is known to

9:33

pay respects to the father of Negro baseball.

9:41

Rube's untimely death in the Great

9:43

Depression dealt a devastating

9:45

blow to black baseball.

9:47

And for a while, the future of black

9:50

baseball was

9:51

uncertain.

9:53

But then,

9:55

something started to happen in

9:57

Pittsburgh.

10:00

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania is where the Negro

10:02

Leagues rose out of the ashes of the Depression.

10:05

It's a place where Black community,

10:08

Black talent,

10:09

and Black enterprise would meet

10:11

and change the course of baseball history

10:13

forever.

10:15

So Pittsburgh in the 30s was

10:17

what Chicago had been in the 20s, right? Chicago

10:20

was literally, in that first migration,

10:22

Chicago was often referred to as the promised land,

10:24

right? And so Pittsburgh, a growing

10:26

city with a manufacturing

10:28

base, huge manufacturing base, large

10:31

Black community in Hilldale and the surrounding

10:33

areas of the city of Pittsburgh.

10:35

Even in the depths of the Depression,

10:37

Pittsburgh had all the ingredients for Black

10:39

baseball to flourish.

10:42

And I knew I couldn't talk about Pittsburgh in the 1930s without

10:44

talking to a good

10:46

friend of mine, Pittsburgh native,

10:49

Shawn Gibson. So

10:51

how do we know each other?

10:53

We know each other through our relatives, you

10:55

know, their grandfathers, turkey stars,

10:58

and my great grandfather is Josh Gibson.

11:00

Josh Gibson is sometimes called the

11:03

Black Babe Ruth.

11:04

But more than a few people think

11:07

that Babe Ruth should be

11:09

called the White Josh Gibson.

11:11

So who was Josh Gibson on

11:14

the field? What was he particularly good at?

11:16

We read stories about Josh Gibson, and you

11:18

hear stories about Josh Gibson, and they talk about

11:20

his home runs, you know,

11:23

how long they were, how far they were, hitting the longest

11:25

ball in Yankee Stadium, hitting

11:27

the ball here at Pittsburgh, outside of out of Forbes

11:30

Field. You know, when you talk about these

11:32

home runs, they sound kind of like mythical, like,

11:34

you know, Paul Bunyan is

11:36

type power.

11:42

If Perky and Josh Gibson were able to

11:44

suit up for an All-Star game and

11:47

a home run derby,

11:48

what do you think fans would see? Man,

11:52

well, hopefully they'll see Josh win. I

11:55

knew you were going to say that.

11:59

I'm not mad

12:02

at it. That's all love. I

12:04

met Sean through the Negro League Family Alliance,

12:07

a group dedicated to preserving the legacy of

12:10

the Negro League. We hit

12:12

it off right away, sharing stories about

12:14

our legendary relatives. His

12:17

great grandfather's journey to Negro League stardom

12:19

intersects with a lot of Pittsburgh's baseball

12:21

history. So tell me

12:24

about Josh Gibson's life.

12:26

They moved to Pittsburgh when he was about 11 years

12:28

old. My great-great-grandfather,

12:30

his father, came to Pittsburgh for work and

12:33

he started working here in Pittsburgh at the Steel Mills.

12:36

And in this new environment,

12:38

a young Josh Gibson found the sport

12:41

that would become his career.

12:42

That's where he started playing sandlot baseball

12:45

and then he began to get recognized throughout

12:47

the city and started playing for the Sandlot

12:50

Pittsburgh Crawford team.

12:52

The Crawfords were an unpaid team

12:54

and Josh worked at the local Steel Mill

12:57

and later as an elevator operator

12:59

so that he could play in his free time.

13:01

Still,

13:03

he became known as a world-class hitter and catcher

13:06

and the kind of person everyone wants to play with.

13:09

He was a great teammate. A lot of guys would

13:11

tell me that he was like one of those jokesters,

13:13

like a happy-go-lucky type guy, loved

13:15

to joke around, loved to have fun. But

13:18

when he came to the baseball time, he was about his business

13:20

and you can tell by his stats that, you

13:23

know, off the field he's one way and on the dime

13:25

he's a different way.

13:26

Eventually, Josh got a big break.

13:29

He was called on to play catcher

13:32

for the city's long-running team, the

13:34

Homestead Grades. This

13:36

will be Josh's first professional baseball

13:38

team, the first time he was

13:41

paid to play the sport he loved. Josh

13:45

Gibson's new team was owned by

13:47

a big shot in Pittsburgh's black baseball

13:49

scene.

13:51

Cumberland Come Posey.

13:54

Come was a sports legend,

13:56

a native son of Pittsburgh,

13:58

and a two-sport athlete. who

14:00

was one of the best baseball and

14:02

basketball players of his time.

14:05

After his athletic career was over,

14:07

he decided to focus on the business of baseball.

14:10

Shakia Taylor, a

14:12

sports and culture editor at the Chicago Tribune,

14:16

says he excelled at that too. He

14:19

led black baseball

14:21

for about 35 years and

14:23

he knew the sport inside and out because

14:25

he played at nearly every level

14:27

at some point. At one point,

14:29

he was viewed as the most

14:31

famous man

14:33

in black baseball.

14:35

So, come knew how to win. And

14:38

as a manager, that competitive

14:40

spirit sometimes came out on the field.

14:42

His personality

14:43

was a little fiery. He was,

14:46

you know, kind of a hothead. He pulled

14:48

his team from the field in front of 10,000 fans

14:51

in New York, forfeiting the game

14:54

because he disagreed with a call by an umpire.

14:57

Under Cum's wing, Josh's

14:59

career as a ball player began to flourish.

15:03

The Grays were a powerhouse in 1931, holding

15:06

the best record against major black teams and

15:09

leading Cum to proclaim his team, the

15:11

undisputed champions of black baseball.

15:15

But, Cum wasn't the

15:18

only baseball trailblazer in Pittsburgh.

15:21

Soon, he would have a rival. And

15:24

where Cum

15:25

was a savvy ex-player, adversary

15:29

was a deep-pocketed businessman ready

15:31

to spin his way to the top.

15:35

Even if that meant going

15:37

after Cum's star player.

15:43

On any given night in Pittsburgh's Hill District,

15:47

Gus Greenlee's

15:47

Crawford Grill was the place to beat.

15:51

The three-story venue was a local hot spot,

15:54

and baseball players would head over after their games

15:57

to rub elbows with Pittsburgh's rich and famous.

15:59

It was the center of social

16:02

life in the city's

16:03

black community. Here's

16:05

historian Leslie Heepe again. There

16:07

are pictures of

16:08

huge crowds both inside, outside, all

16:10

the time. And all the players talk about going

16:12

there and that that's when you went into town, you

16:15

knew that's where you were going to go after the games. Because

16:17

that's where everybody was going to be.

16:18

If you went up the Crawford

16:20

Grill's tight staircase and

16:22

made it to the second floor, you'd

16:24

find a rotating elevated stage

16:27

and a glittering piano covered

16:30

in mirrored tiles.

16:31

The venue drew some of the most talented

16:34

jazz musicians

16:34

in the country.

16:37

Here's Pittsburgh native, Shawn Gibson

16:39

again.

16:40

I mean, man, the best of the

16:42

best came through there at that time.

16:44

Disney Gillespie, Lena Horne, all

16:46

the greatest came through there.

16:57

And up on the third floor

16:59

in a private VIP lounge, Gus

17:01

Greenlee himself watched over his beloved

17:04

venue.

17:05

Gus was a businessman and a socialite,

17:08

a larger than life figure who helped

17:11

massive sway in the town.

17:13

Up in his lounge, he received

17:15

guests like a king holding

17:16

court, pulling on the

17:18

levers of power in black Pittsburgh.

17:26

But Gus didn't start out like this.

17:28

He came to Pittsburgh more than a decade earlier

17:31

in the Great Migration,

17:33

determined to make a life for himself.

17:36

He was an entrepreneur,

17:38

comfortable diving in the ventures both legal

17:40

and illegal. And

17:43

Gus was successful.

17:45

He started out selling bootleg

17:46

whiskey during Prohibition.

17:48

And in 1926, he

17:51

bought an illegal lottery business. That's

17:54

when things really took off. The

17:57

numbers, as they were called,

17:59

were a street life.

18:01

Pittsburgh residents would pay a penny

18:03

or a nickel

18:04

in the hopes of securing a payout worth more

18:06

than their entire week's salary.

18:09

And of course,

18:10

Gus made a nice cut from each drawing.

18:13

At one point,

18:15

it was estimated Gus's system was making

18:17

around $25,000 a day, over half a million today.

18:22

And the way white America

18:25

looked at the numbers game was

18:27

as this illegal gambling.

18:31

But the way it was viewed in the black community

18:33

was this was a lottery.

18:35

And this is how people got loans, and this is how

18:37

people sometimes were able to keep their businesses

18:40

afloat and feed their families. And

18:42

Gus

18:43

Greenlee, in particular, was

18:45

considered within the black community generally

18:48

as somebody that was well-liked,

18:51

well-respected, because

18:53

he was their numbers game.

18:56

In 1930, Gus became interested

18:59

in sports. I mean, with

19:01

that much money, it's just a matter

19:03

of time before you buy a sports team. He

19:07

bought the Pittsburgh Crawfords. That's

19:09

Josh Gibson's old team, and started

19:12

paying the players. Gus

19:15

got into baseball for different reasons than

19:17

Rube Foster. Rube had

19:19

a vision for the future of the game.

19:22

Gus, on the other hand,

19:23

was a businessman through and through.

19:26

But

19:26

in some ways,

19:28

that didn't really matter. Both

19:30

men were smart, capable, and

19:32

well-connected.

19:33

Greenlee is

19:35

a little like Foster in that respect. This is a guy

19:38

who everybody knows who has all

19:40

of the community looking to him.

19:42

And Gus had one advantage Rube didn't,

19:45

a vast fortune at his disposal. With

19:48

it, Gus continued Rube's legacy

19:51

and grew black baseball in ways

19:53

Rube would have struggled to believe.

19:56

Once Gus got started with the Crawfords,

19:59

he was determined to be a leader. the best.

20:01

He embarked on an epic spending spree and

20:04

coaxed star players to his new club with

20:06

hefty paychecks.

20:08

Pretty soon, he

20:10

had a roster of top-tier, top-paid

20:12

players,

20:13

and they started winning big.

20:16

They traveled around in a brand new touring bus,

20:18

handily beating most opponents.

20:22

But the team still had to borrow the

20:24

stadiums of white major league teams.

20:27

Players were barred from using the clubhouses,

20:30

and owners lost a large cut of their profits

20:33

at the gate.

20:35

This didn't sit well with Gus.

20:38

The Grays, as well as the Croffers,

20:41

used to rent out Ford's Field where the Pirates

20:43

played at. And the story

20:45

was told to me, Gus was

20:48

like, why should I keep renting

20:50

out a location and just build

20:52

my own?

20:54

So he built Greenlee Field,

20:56

the first ballpark created for a Negro

20:58

League team. He bought

21:00

the land from a local brick factory and

21:03

fronted half of the $100,000 cost.

21:06

It was the whole nine yards,

21:09

ticket gates, concession stands,

21:11

and a grandstand.

21:14

And it was located right in the Hill District,

21:16

close to the Crawford's Black fanbase.

21:21

That same year,

21:22

Gus decided to go after Comstar player,

21:25

Josh Gibson. Gus

21:27

approached Josh with an enticing sales pitch.

21:31

How would you like to come back to your old team and play

21:33

catcher

21:34

for one of the best rosters in baseball?

21:37

Composien Gus Greenlee,

21:39

right, are going to be constantly

21:41

trying to take players from one another, and they sort

21:44

of trade places of being the top team. And

21:46

so there's a definite constant

21:48

rivalry between those two teams, which

21:50

also is exciting, right? Often

21:53

people like that and you could play that

21:55

up. And it was not

21:57

just a hush-hush. No, it was definitely

21:59

apparent.

21:59

that there was a rivalry between the two of them.

22:03

Jeff Skibson ended up accepting Greenlee's

22:05

offer

22:06

and returned to his former team. Come

22:09

didn't like this turn of events at all. Gus

22:12

had come into his town, playing

22:14

his game,

22:15

and now he was stealing his players

22:18

too? The

22:21

two men battled on and off the diamond,

22:23

fighting for fans and territory, and

22:26

the local community began getting involved.

22:29

One article in the Pittsburgh Courier, Pittsburgh's

22:32

black newspaper, called the

22:34

Croffords a disorganized team

22:37

of temperamentals. In

22:39

another, a columnist wrote, if

22:42

there is room for only one team at Pittsburgh,

22:45

I am very much of the opinion that

22:47

the Grays are closing their books.

22:50

We had two great teams, you know, not

22:52

just one. Most cities don't have one

22:54

good team. We had two great teams, the Grays and the

22:56

Croffords. Something was brewing

22:59

in Pittsburgh, the first sparks

23:01

of a fire. The Crofford

23:03

success got Gus thinking about the big picture.

23:07

What if I turned this rivalry

23:08

into something bigger,

23:10

something that could make even more money? What

23:13

if I started a whole league? And

23:17

so in 1933, Gus Greenlee established the

23:20

second Negro National League, reviving

23:23

Reubs' original idea.

23:25

Six ball clubs joined the Croffords for that

23:27

first season.

23:28

Some were new,

23:30

including the Columbus Bluebirds and

23:33

Baltimore Black Sox. Others

23:35

like the Chicago American Giants had

23:38

played in Reubs' old league. Come's

23:41

homestead, Grays joined too, but

23:43

then Gus kicked them out for stealing players from

23:45

another team. He let them

23:47

join again later. It was a

23:49

whole thing. Those two

23:52

owners were always scheming against each other.

23:58

But Composey wasn't Gus Greenlee.

23:59

main challenge.

24:01

He was starting a league in a depression

24:04

and knew he had an uphill battle ahead

24:07

and he used every trick and gimmick he knew to help

24:10

his league succeed.

24:12

He ran prize drawings, giveaways,

24:15

and hosted ladies nights to bring

24:17

in more fans. He

24:19

offered season passes and installed

24:22

permanent lights at Greenlee Field to

24:24

play night games. And

24:27

these strategies worked despite

24:29

the harsh economic conditions. Gus

24:32

filled the seats in his new stadium and

24:35

other league venues. The

24:37

second Negro National League became even

24:39

more successful than Rube's League

24:42

and that success flowed outwards.

24:44

That's one thing that people don't think about, right? You think just

24:46

the team, but okay, you

24:49

have to bring these players in and most of the time

24:51

the players are not from originally from your

24:53

community, right? And so

24:55

they have to have housing. You're bringing

24:58

in other players who have to stay. So you

25:00

need hotels, you need restaurants,

25:03

you need entertainment, and so all of those

25:05

things are going to flourish. And then you

25:07

employ people at the stadiums,

25:09

ticket takers, right? All of the ushers,

25:11

all of these kinds of things.

25:14

Gus Greenlee had picked up where Rube left off

25:16

and used his fortune and business skills to

25:19

build a thriving industry around black baseball.

25:23

On the diamond, Gus's Crawford's

25:25

dominated

25:25

the early years of the Negro National

25:27

League.

25:29

Gus put together a roster unlike anyone

25:31

had ever seen before

25:33

and clinched the title in three of

25:35

the first four seasons.

25:37

That 1935-36 team with the Crawfords

25:40

is probably, not probably, it's considered

25:42

one of the greatest baseball teams of all time, not

25:45

just to the New York leagues, but Major League Baseball

25:47

as well. They had five Hall of Famers on that

25:49

team.

25:51

But Gus wasn't done yet.

25:53

For years,

25:55

the idea to host an all-black all-star

25:57

game

25:58

had been floating around among

25:59

newspaper writers and team owners. Once

26:03

Gus caught wind of it, he took to

26:05

it immediately.

26:08

What better way to promote

26:09

his new league and get

26:11

black baseball national attention?

26:15

Which takes us

26:16

back to that Sunday afternoon

26:17

in Chicago with

26:20

Mule Suddles at bat.

26:26

Greenlee is really the brainchild in

26:28

getting the second Negro National League up and running, but

26:30

he's also the brainchild of

26:32

starting one of the biggest events in black baseball. And

26:35

of course that's the East West Classic, their

26:37

version of an All-Star game. And so here is

26:39

an opportunity to bring

26:41

together the best of the best for

26:43

everybody in the country to see. Gus

26:46

envisioned the East West Classic as

26:48

a celebration, a

26:50

demonstration of black baseball's excellence.

26:54

For the first time ever, you

26:56

could watch all the

26:57

Negro League greats compete against

26:59

each other in the same season.

27:03

Gus didn't choose who qualified as a great

27:06

though.

27:07

Instead,

27:08

he gave that power to the fans in

27:11

a sort of popularity contest.

27:14

Black newspapers in major cities carried

27:17

ballots listing that year's players.

27:19

And leading up to the game,

27:21

fans voted for the players they felt

27:24

were most deserving.

27:27

In the 1930s,

27:29

voting in political elections

27:30

was far from a guaranteed

27:32

right for black citizens.

27:35

A number of states still had Jim Crow

27:38

laws,

27:39

including poll taxes and literacy tests, which

27:43

disenfranchised black Americans.

27:46

For many of them, this was the first time their

27:48

vote would count.

27:51

And people voted.

27:54

During that first game in 1933, over one million fans submitted their

27:56

bids.

28:01

By the 1939 game,

28:03

that number had increased to 17 million.

28:07

And literally, the East West Classic

28:10

is going to be so successful. Many years,

28:13

the East West Classic is going to outdraw

28:16

the major league all-star game.

28:18

I mean, there were years

28:19

when it had over 45,000, 50,000 people.

28:23

So this was huge spectacle, big money being

28:26

made for all the Negro League teams.

28:29

Big newspapers from around the country sent

28:32

correspondents to cover the game.

28:34

And they spread the word far and wide.

28:38

Negro League players,

28:39

once unknown outside of their communities,

28:41

began to reach a new level of fame.

28:44

The East West Classic expands the opportunities

28:47

for people to see these players. And so,

28:49

white America begins to know

28:52

some of these players that they didn't know before, right?

28:55

A lot more publicity for them. And so, you

28:57

see the emergence of stars,

29:00

mule fuddles, turkey sterns, Josh

29:02

Gibson, Satchel Page, Bach

29:04

Leonard. You start to fill

29:06

in the gaps with all these credible players

29:09

who in the 20s, there wasn't that kind

29:11

of showcase for them.

29:14

My grandfather, Turkey, was selected five

29:16

times for the East West Classic. It

29:19

was a great honor for him.

29:21

Despite being only a few years in retiring,

29:24

fans still overwhelmingly

29:25

voted for him to play in the game.

29:28

Josh Gibson was selected 12 times.

29:31

He and Turkey played together in the East West Classic

29:34

all through the 1930s and were

29:36

honored as some of the greatest to ever step

29:39

on the diamond.

29:42

And the Negro Leagues kept growing into

29:44

the 1940s.

29:46

New teams from across the country joined the league,

29:49

driving competition.

29:52

Find out was stronger than ever before

29:54

and league profits were increasing.

29:57

By the mid-1940s, right at the end

29:59

of World War II.

29:59

too, in one

30:02

of the Negro journals of the time,

30:04

they estimated that the Negro Leagues was a multi-billion

30:07

dollar business and the third largest

30:10

business in the Black community behind

30:12

insurance companies and banks.

30:14

A new wave of stars arrived.

30:17

Buck O'Neill,

30:19

Monte Ervin, and others joining

30:22

mainstays like Josh Gibson

30:24

and Cool Papa Bell. And

30:26

in 1945, a

30:29

young Jackie Robinson got his

30:31

start on the Kansas City Monarchs.

30:40

By 1945, over

30:42

two decades after Rube Foster founded

30:44

the Negro National League, baseball

30:47

had cemented itself as a cornerstone of Black

30:49

life. And the

30:51

success of the East West Classic and

30:54

other championships got people

30:56

thinking, could the Negro Leagues

30:59

become bigger and even more

31:01

exciting? Fans

31:03

started

31:03

pushing for their favorite teams to

31:05

play the white World Series winners.

31:08

But the man leading Major League Baseball at

31:10

the time, Kennesaw Mount

31:13

Landis, was against the idea.

31:15

Mostly out of the fear that the Black team would win. Because

31:18

we know, for example, when Turkey was with the

31:21

Detroit Stars, they did play a three-game series

31:23

against the Detroit Major League team

31:25

and they won two out

31:26

of the three games. Landis

31:29

was a former federal judge and

31:31

MLB's first commissioner.

31:33

He ran the league from 1920 to 1944.

31:39

And while we don't know what his feelings

31:40

were about the Negro Leagues, Landis

31:43

stuck with the so-called gentleman's agreement

31:46

that had kept baseball segregated for

31:48

decades.

31:50

During Landis tenure as commissioner,

31:53

no Black player

31:54

from the Negro Leagues

31:56

would set foot in the majors. Here's

31:58

Shawn Gibson again.

32:00

Pretty sure Josh and the rest of those guys would have loved

32:03

to play against Major League Baseball players. They

32:05

didn't have the opportunity. Society made

32:07

their choice for them. Kennesaw and Landis made their

32:09

choice for them, not to play the majors.

32:12

And because of that choice, everyone

32:15

suffered,

32:15

both Black and White.

32:18

But

32:19

there

32:20

was one place that Commissioner Landis couldn't

32:22

quite reach. His power

32:25

extended to the White Major Leagues, but

32:27

there was a whole different world in the off-season.

32:31

This world broke all the rules Commissioner

32:33

Landis set.

32:35

And even many of the rules Rube Foster

32:37

and Gus Greenlee worked so hard to put in place.

32:42

This was barnstorming.

32:44

The wild west

32:47

of baseball. Players traveled

32:49

across America, playing in small

32:51

towns, on local diamonds,

32:53

and even makeshift fields. Match-ups

32:57

weren't limited by race, and the paydays

33:00

could be sky-high.

33:03

In barnstorming, all

33:05

the rules were thrown out

33:07

the window. It

33:10

was a game of more daring, more base-dealing.

33:13

Why would you throw somebody out with

33:15

a straight throat when you can do it between your

33:17

legs? We were scheduled to play

33:19

games in Louisiana,

33:22

Arkansas, Kentucky. We

33:24

traveled together. Had a great time. We had

33:26

a lot of fun together.

33:28

And they didn't just play in the United

33:30

States.

33:30

Representatives from dictator

33:33

Rafael Trio told Pais

33:35

that El Presidente didn't bring you

33:38

down here to lose. El Presidente

33:40

brought you down here to win.

33:59

This episode was written by Cameron

34:02

Chertavian. The series was produced

34:04

by Madeline Wood, Cameron Chertavian,

34:07

Eru Ekpanobi, Camille Peterson,

34:09

and Amira Williams. Our

34:12

senior producers on this project were Susie

34:14

Liu and Lakia Brown. Music

34:17

and scoring by Evan Viola. A

34:19

big shout out to our ABC Audio team,

34:22

Liz Alessi,

34:22

Josh Cohan,

34:25

Ariel Chester, Sasha Aslanian,

34:27

Marwa Milwaukee, Audrey

34:30

Boszczyk, and Erin Faris. Special

34:33

thanks to Trish Donovan, Rick

34:35

Klein, Eric Fial, Anthony

34:38

Fanik, Marra Bush, and

34:40

of course my mom, Joyce Stearns Thompson,

34:43

and my aunt,

34:43

Broslan Stearns Brown. Laura Mayer is our executive

34:46

producer.