0:00

I wrote to them all, almost non respondents. And then there was this one library, a very big one in LA. That said, Your music is pretty good. Let's have a chat. So that basically anything that that's basically what they said, let's have a chat. And that's from that conversation, that Zoom meeting came an entire album with the library. Yeah. Right. So basically, online networking as well is, again, an important part.

0:39

What is happening, everybody and welcome back to the 52 Cues, podcast, your weekly insight into all things production and library music. My name is Dave Kropf. And it is so good to be with you today. And if you find this video helpful, then why don't you give it a thumbs up here on YouTube or a five star review? On your podcast app. This really does help folks find us.

1:00

Either way, be sure to subscribe because I talk about library and Production Music specifically, every single week. Today's episode wouldn't be possible without the amazing support of our family, friends and neighbors subscribers of 52 Cues who not only keep the community alive and thriving, but as members, they also get access to bonus perks like live streams, cube breakdowns, Zoom feedback sessions, hundreds of hours of video archives and the opportunities to submit to real music libraries. So if this sounds like something you're interested in, and you're looking for a community of supportive like minded composers, and you're ready to make a serious push into the world of Production Music, then why don't you join us over at 52 cues.com It is free to sign up and membership start at around four bucks a month. So today is week 16. I think last week, I got my weeks mixed up I think I said it was week 16 It's just really all kind of blurs together. And it's been a pretty good week, the afterglow of the family reunion is still settling in it feels really quiet around the house. But we've started making some some some progress in setting up meetups all over the world actually. And in the next couple of weeks, we're going to announce a meet up in Germany, because we have a large German and Swiss contingent, and we've got a meet up happening there. And so I will say again, if you're a member of the 52 cues community and you're interested in playing host to a meet up again it doesn't have to be at your house or anything you can meet up at a restaurant or go bowling or whatever just the idea of meeting in person I think is really super important. Speaking of meeting in person, if you are going to the PMC I would love to to see you and meet you. I know we have a handful of folks going to the Production Music Conference in September. I booked my hotel and my flight just yesterday. I am flying in Monday afternoon and flying out to Friday afternoon. And I don't know Do it. Do I have a an afternoon at Universal Studios Hollywood in my future? I'm not sure I know the hotel kind of looks over universal. But if you are planning on going to the Production Music Conference in September, then let's Yeah, I'd love to meet you come up Shake, shake my hand. I'll be the dude in the white glasses. As far as other things going on this week, just more writing in the middle of this this album of European drama at cues and we're gonna listen to another one. A Greek drama D which sounds fun like a Greek drama, a Greek drama DQ here called sat all you got is in Sikhi that's coming up but also had a couple of plays at the Masters tournament had two plays one flyover of hole 18 and the fly over of hole 13 for a couple of minutes of air and just amazes me this is my 10th year having music played during masters coverage. And I don't know I want to make sure that I never take that for granted. I'm as excited getting okay maybe maybe that's maybe not as excited my very first placement I ever got was during the 2015 Masters tournament and during a pre tape of the Jim Nance remembers feature. And that was a real life changing moment for me.

4:38

Because I had been pushing into production music for you know, almost a year, maybe two years leading up into that. But I remember where I was.

4:44

I remember the moment I remember the slow motion jumping up and down feeling of that's my music on TV. And even now when I get air I have that, that little buzz, that little excitement when a cue sheet comes in or a royalty statement or tune set, and I see a hit and I hear my music. I'm like, Oh my gosh, that's, that's my stuff on television.

5:13

And not everybody gets to do that. And so I don't ever want to take it for granted. And I think as soon as I do, I'm giving you permission out there.

5:19

52 cues, folks are internet strangers in the YouTube comments. If I take it for granted, call me out on it, because it is a big deal. And not everybody gets to do it. And it's a lot of hard work with a lot of moving parts. And there, there are a lot of kind of gates you have to go through and hoops you have to jump through, to get from music from my head, onto a computer, in a room over a garage, or in a bedroom or in an office or whatever, to get onto television with Jim Nance doing voice VoiceOver on the Masters tournament.

6:04

So as I reflect on 10 years of placements, I've just, I feel really fortunate, I'm very thankful, and a huge shout out to rob Aster of our our hot, who has been my guide and my mentor, my sounding board, patience of a saint, and just really appreciate him. And I want to personally thank him. I also want to thank Danny McIntyre and Steve Cox, for for kind of trusting me and seeing, seeing something in my work even before it was fully formed, right that the the eye for potential, and their mentoring and coaching really established the foundation of what we are doing here at 52 cues, which is helping better, helping composers get better by focusing on the people, focusing on the person, it's very holistic type of approach. And that's what we're doing here at 52 cues, whether whether you're a subscriber or not, whether you're a paid member or this, just know that that's what we are doing here. It's not about the hustle. It's not about you know, I've got six figure sinks or anything like that. The idea is that which is which is cool and important. And some people respond to that motivation. So I'm not hating anybody. But what we're doing here is is that we are focusing on people first becoming a, a person of integrity. And through that comes the skill and the talent and the success. That's that's kind of what I believe. I hope I hope that makes sense. And that's not too woowoo. But, but yeah, then again, that was made even more apparent. Last week, when when we had the family reunion, I'm really writing I'm still super writing high, obviously. So once again, a huge thanks to rob pastor, Steve Cox and Danny McIntyre, of our hot and unified sounds and all those crews, all those folks on that crew for really believing in me. All right, as far as the queue that I want to show you this week. This is a Greek drama, the Q, meaning that it is dramedy with pizza Kado plucking strings, and I'm doing a whole album of bringing kind of European Cafe elements. So my French cues have accordion, my Italian cues have mandolin and my Greek cues have Baszucki but I don't own a Baszucki but I kind of can fake one using some dulcimers and some other sounds and some layered sounds along with them a lot of impersonating an accordion. So here is sat all you got That was set all you got for you family friends and neighbors subscribers if you want to see this cube be written from scratch, you can check out the archive of this in the composing live streams because I wrote this live last week and for your family and friends subscribers, I have a que breakdown on this coming up tomorrow. It is always a good day when I can welcome to the podcast, one of us, right so someone who is on the same path. I mean, we've had, you know, publishers and libraries and all of that. And that's great. And I'm gonna keep having them but to be able to, to come alongside somebody who's kind of in the trenches with us kind of working out a living in the production music space is always a treat and I am so happy to welcome yella Ditmar to the podcast yella, how are you my friend? Doing fine?

11:30

How are you doing? Man?

11:32

I'm doing great as we are recording this, we're coming into the holiday season and before, you know before we before we started recording, we were talking Well, we were lamenting how we have to work really, really hard to make space for for having a few days off. And so I really, really hope you're able to get a break here soon.

11:54

I'm trying to I mean, it's especially at the end of the year, you basically have all these projects that you didn't do in the rest of the year, you're basically piling them up for the rest of the year. So December is always very hectic. And then January, February is literally a slower month. So yeah, but I'm doing fine. And indeed, the holidays are coming up. Hope you're spending time in the holidays as well with your family. Yeah,

12:16

I mean, I don't know about you, but I have a hard time kind of turning it off. Right.

12:20

It's just my brain is always thinking on it. I mean, it's always music. Yeah, even when I'm watching like YouTube videos, if I sit down to watch YouTube videos recreationally first of all, my algorithm feeds all these like Production Music videos and guitar tutorials and everything. But even when I'm like, You know what, I'm not going to be in the studio, I've got my laptop, like in the living room, and I'm working on Omnisphere patches, do you kind of have the same problem just shutting it down?

12:47

At some point, yeah, when I'm just in the living room, and I'm just watching on my on YouTube, I always get music or I get the newest album releases from soundtracks that I'm checking out because I'm a huge soundtrack collector on vinyls as well, hello. And I really trying to do especially this year trying to find a better balance between life or my work and my personal life. Because at some point, I just want to do this for the rest of my life. And if I'm constantly working, burnout is quick around the corner. So you really need to be aware of that. So that's basically what I'm trying to do have a party today where I'm just fully focusing on my private life and then a part of the day where I'm just completely working and cranking out a little tricks.

13:31

Yeah. And how deliberate Are you because I know with me, I have a my calendar or Google calendar says nope, and it's actually called sacred Dave and Shannon times my wife's name Shannon. And so nothing can note no clients can book time to their or anything. So how are you making sure that those sacred times stay sacred?

13:52

I have a strict Google Calendar. So just like you. So I always thought to myself, when I before I got into the music world, I don't want to office job I don't want to work nine to five.

14:05

But I found it the ideal way to find a balance between work and personal life, private life. So basically, I wake up at seven and go for lunch or go for a breakfast and have some coffee, read some emails, maybe and then at 9am started composing until was it's five in the in the afternoon. And then absolutely, when I'm done writing music, as soon as the clock hits five, I just completely stop and when emails come in, I still read them and maybe reply to them if it's a very good email.

14:42

But if it's not then it just I'm just parking as for today. So that's and right now that balance works because I'm doing a lot of library work and a lot of game work sometimes as well. And right now the debts balance works really well but it could be very well within the next couple of years. I'm so Busy that's, I need to restructure that balance a little bit more. So it really depends on how busy I am. Do you

15:08

do you find yourself? Like, like, what do you do recreationally, I had a hard time. And I still have a hard time listening to music recreationally. I feel like that's kind of been burned out of me. And so other people will say, Yeah, I put on some music. And I can't do that my brain starts where I can't watch sports. Because I write cues that go up in sports. I can't watch sports recreationally. What are some of the things that you're finding to help kind of unplug out of out of that mode?

15:38

Well, I do listen, for my entertainment to music. Very often, just to get inspired. I'm a big fan of 80s rock music or not music. So Queen Genesis, I really grew up with that kind of music. So I always listened to that when I just want to wind down but or for other things for entertainment is I do play a lot of video games. So role playing games, like for example, cyberpunk. Really love that game, especially after the latest updates. So I'm a big gamer I play on the console, the PlayStation. A fun fact is basically the first PlayStation is three weeks older than I am. So in 1949 or 1994, the first PlayStation came out and I basically grew up with that console. So I'm playing a little video games for when I want to wind down but also I just when it's nice weather here in the Netherlands, we have beautiful nature over here.

16:39

And I'm just going to take a stroll or I'm going to take my bike and right across the fields here.

16:46

So yeah, basically do anything but make music Yeah,

16:50

I do have to say I should I should have mentioned you are in the Netherlands, right?

16:54

And, and I spent some time in the Netherlands in Harlem, specifically, absolutely gorgeous. And I was instantly jealous of how accessible bicycling is over there. I'm like here in Florida. I mean, I can kind of bike around my neighborhood that if I go on the main road, I'm literally taking my life in my own hands. So Netherlands, Netherlands has biking figured out. Biking

17:18

is really a very nice thing to do here because we have bicycle lanes basically everywhere. Even in the city since we've bicycle lanes and even outside of the cities outside between cities and villages, we have bicycle lanes. And when I went to LA in September, this year, I tried to go for a bike ride and boy Yep, riding Venice Beach. That was that was an experience.

17:44

It was cool to hear you also talk about video games, because that would that would be my thing. I'm also into role playing games, I'm into MMOs I'm still a hardcore like World of Warcraft person. And I get together once a week with my my best friend from middle school and, and we get together and we still we play for just a couple of hours. You know, it's super slow. We're not competitive or anything. But yeah, video games, I am realizing is my kind of recreational thing. Yeah. Yeah. And oddly enough, because we're doing voice chat, the music is turned off. Hmm.

18:17

There's a correlation there. Maybe, you know, we mentioned that you are over in Amsterdam, and you found a lot of success. You know, whether it be film scoring, working on games, but a lot of Production Music, some some 500 published production music tracks that are kind of bouncing around the industry and getting a lot of love. But doesn't being not in the US or even more specifically, not in LA does that does that provide its own set of challenges? And if so, what do international composers do to kind of overcome that?

18:52

Well, the most common thing to overcome it is basically moved to LA,

18:56

I guess the nuclear option, right? That's

18:59

basically an option. But I really found out that it's not really necessary because we have, especially after the COVID periods, these software that we're using right now for the podcast. They are also available for scoring with live musicians scoring in the studio. Basically, we had all the movers now we have another software that's popping around the corner that I actually used two weeks ago with a recording session in LA, where you don't even need audio movers a secondary link to capture the high quality sound mixing table in the studio. It's all basically in the web browser and you don't need zoom as an additional video browser. So basically, one of the challenges with for me is that I have the timezone. So obviously, the time zones are a big thing when they are in the middle of the day at 2pm for example, then I'm laying in my bed and just trying to get some sleep for a very, very busy day. And then if they have a problem yeah, it's can happen that they call me or email me very quickly. And then that I need to get out of bed or fix some stamps, for example, that absolutely happens. But actually, they the people I work with in LA are very, very understanding. And when they when I say, at this time of the NLA. And so this time, I'm out, and they are for now, very understanding.

20:21

So there's no issue actually, for me whatsoever.

20:28

But if it's really, really a big problem that needs to be tackled really quickly, of course, I'm getting out of that, grab some coffee and just get stuff done. But right now, I actually don't find a lot of issues working with parties in LA, apart from the time zones.

20:46

Okay. And so the technology has come along and communication, and not to mention that they can make a request, and then they go to bed and they wake up and it's done. Right. It's

20:59

done. It's done. Benefits. Yeah, absolutely. It's also one of the benefits from the time difference between the Netherlands and Los Angeles. So basically, when they are they are done with today, my day starts. So if they have a problem that needs to be fixed, I can fix it in their evening. And then it's done as well. So they could also be working in to your advantage. Yeah.

21:21

But what about, you know, for international folks, and this applies to everybody, but especially international folks who can't necessarily go to LA Can't you know, the PMC Production Music Conference is fantastic. But it's it's it's a haul for me from Orlando, I could only imagine from like Frankfurt, or Amsterdam or whatever. So what what are, what are ways that you have found overcoming networking challenge challenges in relationship building?

21:51

Um, well, when there are networking opportunities here in the Netherlands, I go there, and there is this big game developers conference called Gamescom. In Cologne, I don't know if you heard it, but they're basically the biggest right now, since II three has been close biasness. I know that

22:07

that blows my mind anyway, that as well. 20 years, it just stops. But anyway,

22:12

it stops. And they're just done.

22:12

But Gamescom is actually apart from a public events. There's also a lot of game developers from across the world, just like GDC. In San Francisco, they're also coming to Gamescom in Cologne, because it's the biggest gaming events of Europe.

22:29

And so basically, for those kinds of network events, I go there. But indeed, for production music, there's not very much in Europe regarding those kind of network sessions. So you're basically, yeah, if you, if you can spare the time, and can spare the money to go to LA, I highly recommend going there. Because I think it was very, because I went to LA in September, I was part of a Dutch sync mission for composers in the media sector. And we went to LA and the amount of networking I did in just a week. And the connections I didn't that week is just astounding.

23:09

So basically, if you can afford going to LA, of course, it cannot hurt to just go there and just network and talk to people you already know, for example, through online because I have a lot of contacts with or a lot of email messages with the publishers that are working for it. So when I was there, I just made appointments with those publishers greps on my channel, stroke, raffles, the biscuits here in the Netherlands, give them that just little present, like, Thank you for the opportunity. And you will be surprised how how people will remember you then. I mean, it can also be that they don't remember you at all, but it's the gesture and it's it's unconsciously it's does something with that connection. It's a little bit psychologically, so no,

23:55

yeah, they're gonna remember the guy who brought the snacks, right? Yeah, it was in

24:00

this camp, and it was in the scan.

24:00

So now they are collecting the plectrums that they lost, to collect. And every time they get a plectrum in the studio, they think of me Maybe so, but just go to LA and to just experience firsthand the networking and how the industry works there.

24:18

For me, were phenomenal to experience and I learned so much just by being there one week being that's by and meeting with some very high library professionals as well.

24:30

Yeah, yeah, I think the good old fashioned networking skills this chops like bringing a gift, our our, I have a publisher who sends Christmas cards, right? He sends Christmas cards to all of his composers, and he assigned composers in India, he signed composers in Tokyo, he signed composers from all over the world and he sends them Christmas cards. And these are these are folks that I've worked with and they're telling me Oh my gosh, I got and it had like four stamps on it was handwritten. And that goes so long because in our, in our digital LinkedIn kind of Facebook like world, it's easy to kind of it's easy to forget that there's a human being on the other side of this relationship. And human beings need tending, like, you know, like fine plants, right? Yeah,

25:26

absolutely. I mean, basically, if you're just not following up on emails, I mean, you're talking about how we are so much caught up in the digital age right now, if you do not put in the extra effort to maintain that network, you can easily become just a another name in a very, very long email, email list of 1000 or million dollar names. And you're simply forgotten. So trying to maintain a relationship digitally, but also in the real world. It's also I think, very important to maintain a very healthy career as a Media Composer or production music composer. Yeah,

26:04

and the way that you had a relationship that may be started virtually through is through a zoom session and the PMA, you know, virtual, virtual networking events, and the groundwork that that does, so when you do meet in person, and I had that I had that experience when I went to the PMC last year, some folks that I had only exchanged emails with maybe the occasional zoom, but meeting them in person, there was like, you weren't starting from square one. Right? Yeah.

26:33

And so your ad

26:34

already laid the foundation, basically. And then you're just basically if you've already laid the foundation with an email, and then just you meet them, the conversation, the conversation starter basically becomes so much more easier than if you would be in that room and just go go to them and just check the anti I'm this and this and then it makes it a little a little bit more easier. Right. Yeah,

26:57

absolutely. And, and I do believe that a two minute hallway conversation can can do more for your career than the best crafted email. Yeah, absolutely. So it's no surprise that, that you attend to these types of personal touches, because it's not just in your, your philosophy as a professional, but it's also in your philosophy as a composer because one of the things about your music is a passion for live performers. And that seems to be a kind of a hallmark of of your cues.

27:33

You're always looking for that new kind of live thing. Can you talk a little bit about how you kind of came came to that and how you what's your approach to incorporating live elements in your cues?

27:47

Yeah, basically, for me, it wasn't always like this because three years ago when I was still at college, I always thought that I could do everything with plugins like for example Spitfire audio, I was there with the guys that just thought you can do everything with VSTS oh boy, how wrong were I when I when I went to one of the recording sessions at college at the SAE Institute in Amsterdam, and we weren't recording a real cellist there was playing in one of my my cues with a with a made with a virtual instruments. It made so much more difference, so much more impact than that robotic plugin. And since then, I've become a big advocate of recording as much life elements in your music as possible, because not only do you get more emotion, but you also get a more original sounds because if you have a sample, for example, that well, for example, Spitfires, violence, they've already been recorded with a special with a certain intention in mind. But when you're recording with a live position that is playing your story, your your music, and has that story, your music in mind, then he plays way differently than that virtual plucking would ever do. I hope I explained his grilling. Yeah. So since then, I basically also it gives a very, very big advantage of over AI as well, because you can do so much wacky stuff with real instruments that AI is still struggling to keep up with. Yes, we I don't know how it will become in five years or so. But using real organic instruments has become a very big part of my sound pellets. And I know that you're a big fan of the French engine that I built with my dad together. Yeah, yeah. That's also a reason why I build the thing. Because it's so every time you're just doing something, it's becoming another sound. Is it becoming something weird, it's something wacky, and it just gives this this edge to your music that you would never get with For example a free VST even if you would make a VST plugin of the French engine, it would not sound the same as if you have have the real thing now

30:11

I love the way that that that you stated that the fact that when when the when the violinists are in the studio recording for Spitfire are eight do or sound or whatever their intention is frozen in time, whatever that intention but when the live violinist plays yours Your music is their intention. And I that's that's that's a completely new thought that I hadn't considered. And I think that that adds to the uncanny valley right that that kind of the artifice that sample instruments that simplement instruments have. Alright, that's interesting. I'm gonna I'm gonna be chewing on that one for a while. So what would what would be your encouragement for folks who may be you know, who are wanting to do this? They recognize it and they're in total agreement? Yes. Yeah, that is totally right. I need to record instruments, but a, I'm broke, or, or, or B. I don't have access to the types of players that that that an accomplished composer might have maybe, or maybe they're early in their career or whatever. How do folks get started? Well,

31:23

if you're planning on getting some real instruments to start in, when you're like me, you're very experimental music. I don't know if you can see it over there. And there's a cello in the background that I bought, I cannot play it.

31:33

For the love of it. I cannot play a cello at all.

31:39

But just having a cello bow and a cello together and just make some very weird sounds in this cello was not expensive. It's an electric cello from Tolman. It's an Harley Benson. And they are very, very cheap. So it doesn't sound good on classical music. But that's also not the intention if you're not a classical cellist. No, absolutely not. So basically, what I just do is I make one note at a time, and then when I need to record the other notes, I'm just searching for an hour to diagnose and then record and then I play it again, that's how I do it. But it's already gets so much more uniqueness to your track so much more liveliness, even if it's an electric cello. And basically, basically for recording with real orchestras. I have really hefty advice on how to do that, because I was extremely lucky. When I got to get a gig with a real orchestra. When I went to COVID pandemic, we were in the second lockdown here in the Netherlands, I was bored out of my mind. And I just thought to myself, I really want to record with life orchestra. So I was looking at Google, basically, which libraries were recording with real orchestras. And I believe that there were a couple of dozen of them. I wrote to them all, almost none responded. And then there was this one library, a very big one in LA. That said, Your music is pretty good. Let's have a chat. So that anything that that's basically what they said, let's have a chat. And that's from that conversation. That Zoom meeting came an entire album. With the library. Yeah. Right. So basically, online networking as well is, again, an important part.

33:24

Yeah. As far as just getting putting your hands on an instrument, a poorly performed live instrument will out will sound better than a very expensive VST Yeah, you know, I have I have guitars on stuff in the wall here in the background that I can barely play and I Powercore tuning and faking it because I'm never going to perform that live right. You just recently uploaded a video. I think you got a new shirt and go to rango

33:52

rango I thought I bought the wrong Rocco because I love the music bag stuff with some challah. I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. I simply I'm very bad with names but so I probably messed this one up. But I thought I bought the wrong Rocco. It's handcrafted in Bolivia. And then they sent me a tango. So I was like, Oh, damn, but

34:12

it sounds really good sound to me, it

34:14

sounds really good. Weirdly enough, it sounds very, very close to a rocker and maybe it's just my my, my brain that's like, I don't know the difference between a Durango or Rocco I know the difference, but I cannot hear it right now. When I compare it together, I do hear a little bit. But basically that's your Ranga buying this kind of instruments. It's just have a new sound in your arsenal. It can already do so much.

34:34

And I put this thing in with portal from output, the plugin so basically a granular synthesizer that you can real time trigger when you're playing through a microphone. And there are some weights with stuff going in there. So it's that kind of experimentation is something that really inspires me as well when I'm composing music because I really hate doing the same thing over and over and over again. It's the reason why I don't write any solo piano albums anymore. It's done. It's done.

35:06

At some point, it just became an office job. Oh, wow. Yeah. So basically my new instrument buying new plugin that's a little bit more different than the usual stuff. Certainly really helps inspiring.

35:19

inspire me to do new stuff every time we buy music, it

35:27

like you mentioned earlier, the apprehension engine. I'm absolutely fascinated by this. And what I'd like to do right now is I'm going to drop in a clip here of and we'll put a link to this video of the apprehension engine that you made with your dad. So we're going to take a listen to this really quick

35:46

he made it I just delivered the material because I am not a good constructionist, my full credit goes to my dads who built this one.

36:52

Okay, first of all, I want one of these things. And I'm like, I'm gonna I'm gonna look on Etsy. You know, I wonder if eBay has one of these. But it's really fascinating. First of all, it's really cool that you know, you made this with your dad or you're connected with your dad to make it I think that's super, super cool. And something you know, that he made that you performed gets on TV. I mean, that's, that's like a hallmark special. There's a Christmas movie right there. But talk about the apprehension engine, talk about the inspiration behind it, and how it's been going for you since you made it.

37:31

Well, basically, I got to know it should a video game, the Callisto protocol, which came out this year. I know it was last year. Last year, the clinical protocol came out it was from the ex developers from what was it? What was it again? That space, okay. So they use the French tension for its soundtrack. So that's how I got to know it. And then I said to my dad, I want to buy one of these. And we were looking them up. And the original inventor was commissioned by composer Mark orphan who composed the lighthouse with Willem Dafoe. And Robert Pattinson and the which he used that one first in his compositions. And I was looking at the inventor of the French ancient and when I was looking at the website, I saw that you can actually buy them from this this guy. And they were 10k when I looked at it, so very, very expensive. And my father, he said, Well, maybe I can buy or I can build one. And we were looking up at some blueprints on some Facebook groups, because there are Facebook groups that have tried to build the French engine. And basically, the entire blueprint is just publicly available on those Facebook groups. There is a YouTube channel where a guy makes an oppression appreciation engine from scratch. So you can just follow the tutorial on this but basically what my father did, and then I just got it, get it the materials and he build it. And it's sounding absolutely killer every time using it.

39:07

Yeah. And what kind of miking technique are they contact mics? Are they like condensers? And what kind of put on it? The

39:14

apprehension engine the microphones that we were using the original one, basically use three clip on mics or mics that you can fit against.

39:26

I think I lost contact mics. Yeah, yeah, it sounds like my

39:29

there are three of them in the original one. We basically have four of them, because I ordered the wrong contact mics from Amazon. So we have four and basically, we put up two against the front plates and then two on the ceiling. And basically, every sound I make on the outside is getting picked up by this complex mics because the gain is pretty pretty, pretty high.

39:53

And then we also have a reverb tank from a guitar amplifier that's in there to generate sound And we have a guitar pickup a seek a secret box guitar pickup. So we have three outputs that are going into my my DW. Yeah. And that's basically how I would set up how it makes sense by those contact mice, the reverb tank and the seeker secret box pickup. Yeah,

40:19

yeah, definitely, definitely want one.

40:19

I don't want one for $10,000. You look at it. I mean, no disrespect to the inventor. No disrespect for your dad doesn't necessarily look like a$10,000 instrument. You know, I've seen so I'm not sure.

40:32

I mean, I think they're gone down to price. But I think if you're going to add, see, there are people that make these as well.

40:38

Yeah, I looked up water phones, also.

40:38

Those can be really expensive, or like hung drums, you know, all those kinds of things. Yeah.

40:46

But it's also because it's, I think it's because it's new, it's new. It's interesting.

40:50

And people just want this and then they can basically ask anything for it. So it's new they wanted and they have a gap in the market, basically, that they can fill.

41:00

Yeah, it's interesting that you mentioned the developer for the game, who would also who also did Deadspace. And that is Jason gray. So I'm going to college with Jason graves, game composer, ya know him really well and his wife and everything. And when he did Tomb Raider, they commissioned the sculpture, which was very similar. Now, it wasn't like a box like that it was a metal sculpture that they had somebody in North Carolina build. And they actually built two of them. One of them is in the lobby of the game studio. And JSON has the other one. And it's you blow it and pluck it and everything. And he used that as the anchor for his soundtrack. So I think that studio is is into those types of those types of composers. So that's cool. Awesome.

41:45

I'm basically used, it's all my album that I made this year with a composer. News from the list, who is the composer behind horizon for better Western zero, Donald get it with a couple of other composers for PlayStation. And he basically is a very, very good percussionist very good with rhythmical music. And we were commissioned by this library, he wants to do more with production music. So I said, Well, we can maybe pitch an idea that we have, I'm not going to tell the idea. That's a surprise for next year when it comes out nice. It's insane. It was one of the most difficult albums I've ever worked on. But it was nice challenge. And we very much use the apprehension engine a lot of other very weird instruments and just made a completely bonkers album, which is library and with the life cellist that we recorded two weeks ago, yeah, in studios in LA. And it's, it's such an joy and an inspiration to work with someone like that and work with an instrument like that. Yeah, it just elevates your your productivity to the next level.

42:53

Well, because

42:54

the people and the instruments are fueling your create creativity, you know, it's, you know, it's kind of like when when you get a good, a good sample library, or a good, you know, synth patch or something and you play it and all of these ideas just burst out of your head. That's yeah, that's the spark. And so you mentioned the library that that it was bonkers. How much leeway did you get? Did they give you to be as creative and go kind of off roading as much as you want? Or was it a ton of revisions? And back and forth?

43:27

No, no, absolutely not. They said basically, what do you want to make? Because we were pitching for a while, they said we want you for a new album? What do you want to make? And basically, they you know, they said, what I want to make? And I said, Well, I don't want to do to solo piano with strings again, because that's basically already done. I want to create this style of music that I just came up with, with this guy. And they said, Well, how would it sound? Like I said, no idea. Let's let's have us figure this out. And they went for it. They gave us the budgets. And they basically said good luck, and we will hear everything when it's done. And then I'm sure we had a couple of revisions, but nothing too bad. They basically let us very, very loose on the creative part of this album. Yeah.

44:12

And that's that's kind of the dream, isn't it? I mean, that's yes, we start off making

44:12

Yeah, I think that will probably be the hardest part to just sell it and make it our dramedy cues. We start off doing our tension, we start off doing the things that they need, and that they ask for him or responding to briefs. But I think the goal is to get to a point where a library says, Hey, I love I love you Jelle. I love you, Dave. And I love what you're about. And I love everything that you do, you know, and so just whatever you want to write, we're gonna we're gonna try to sell it right and we're gonna try to get it placed. And so I think that's the goal.

44:43

That's what we're striving for. usable for

44:50

television because that's their problem.

44:50

That's their job. So good luck with that. Yeah, exactly. It's

44:57

gonna be one of those things that it's not going to be for everybody. but for the person is for the project that it's going to be the absolute perfect fit. So I can't wait to hear about it, man. Yeah, definitely, I

45:08

think it will probably be in the very, very first quarter of next year that we can release it or can announce it. But the library just wants to have it a little bit off from from the public. I have some very close friends that I showed it, and they're really loving it. Maybe because of my, they're my friends that just say, Oh, we love it. And they just laugh, whatever. But now we I really think this is something new, something original, something that actually hasn't been done before, at all, or very much. So I'm really curious to hear what people think of it.

45:45

Yeah.

45:46

Likewise. So I'll be keeping an eye on your Instagram to see when you, you let us know about that. Yes, here as we kind of start wrapping up. First of all, I want to I want to also give a shout out to Roy over at the St. Jim's podcast who had you on his podcast. And if you want to know a lot more about kind of Jelle's, journey and his path into music, definitely check out that podcast Roy, what is that? That's for just for you, baby.

46:10

So you can check out sync gems, it's a totally different vibe. And it is it is explicit. So just so you know, that's fine. We I have my little my my PG 13 Lane over here. But it's it's Roy does a fantastic job, easily one of my one of my like top five podcasts that I listen to every time. So I just want to give him a shout out. So if you want to know a little bit more about Jelle, his background and his journey into music, you can check that out. But I want to the last thing I want to talk about today is your journey as a coach and the mentor, because I know that's super important to you. And it's also production music composers. I mean, we're super kind of servant minded. You know, we're always thinking about how can our music serve others? And so I've lost count the number of production music composers who have a heart for teaching. And that that includes Well, actually, a lot of love teaching. So talk about Yeah, talking about your journey into coaching and mentoring.

47:16

Well, actually, I'm still working on a voluntary basis on my old school that I went to for special education, and I'm sometimes coaching, chill, I did coach a lot of children a couple of years ago. And basically doing that kind of work reef fueled my ambition to coach other people, composers as well. Sorry. So basically, when I started out as a composer, I got introduced by the YouTube channel sync by music from Jesse Joseph is also incredible, incredible coach for production music composers just like you. And I was watching his videos, and I got some success in the industry. I was reacting on his videos. And we were just starting to get talking. And he invited me over for pro feedback to coach other composers as well. And I've been doing that now for him for a full year now. And it's been so a joy to see people grow when you give them feedback. I mean, there has been times that I give feedback that I think that that I didn't understand quite well or did I even myself didn't understand quite well, when I made that feedback. But there are a couple of composers like Justin hellicksen, and then you when they started out with profit back, they are now composing for big trailer libraries like hunchback music and Hodor, next to Harlem. And the other one really slow motion. He's composed for that one as well. And it's really fun to see that when they came to you. And they really needed to hear that what they did was right, what they did was goods and it's the same for me when I wanted to when I went to a demo day in Amsterdam for record labels, when they said that my music was good. That was such a confidence booster and yeah, that I just could kick off my entire career from just that conversation with a guy and it's so inspirational to see that basically, I'm doing the same with these composers now just giving them the confidence or just saying to them that what you do is good that your music is very good. And then they do something like that going to try to label like really slow motion and kick of their own career is so inspiring to see as well for me as a coach as well. So I don't know if you recognize that.

49:43

Oh, yeah, it's it seems really kind of cheesy to say like your success is my success. But it really really is when I when I get somebody that I've been coaching and they get air right or they get placed in a library and I get as excited As if it were my own, even though I don't necessarily have any anything to like gain from their placement other than Wow. It's super fulfilling. And that's how, you know if if somebody else's success feels you, then that's that's how you know that you're cut out to do this? Absolutely.

50:21

Yeah, it's basically also what I want to do in the future in the long term in the next five or 10 years or so is to build a studio here in the Netherlands and basically get these children that I'm working with on the school right now and get them into the studio, let them make music, let them share a little bit of royalty so that they can get the taste for music. And maybe it won't be ideal way for for everyone but just enabling them to give them the chance to try it out. It's already so much more that I can offer them, then the most official institutions here in the Netherlands can give those people because they are being treated as the lowest of low I've been treated as low as as low with my eldest son. But just fighting back and just showing to the people to the society that you're so much more capable of doing things is something that I'm trying to do with music as well trying to break through the stigma that people have about autism, and giving other people the chance to do the same. And to give them a perspective on a better future. As a coach, especially, is something that I'm really striving for for the next couple

51:32

of years. Yeah, I can't think of anything more. More important than encouraging and pouring into children. Like it's one thing to have like a coach of like a 50 year old man, you know, from from Las Vegas or whatever. That's cool. I love it. But being able to impart encouragement, hope to deaf children, especially children with special needs, who who have probably been marginalized and told what they can and can't do.

52:02

And here you are, like, let's have a studio. Let's have you make a music.

52:09

Yeah, certainly. But it's not just a learning process for them. But it's also a learning process for yourself as a coach, because you may give them bad advice at some point. You cannot give them all the right advice at every time. So you don't know all the answers. No, you don't know the answers at all. So you make mistakes as well. You learn from those mistakes.

52:31

And basically being a coach is not only about living or learning others people stuff, but it's also about learning back from them. Oh, something that I really find a spider. Yeah,

52:43

if you want to learn a topic, try to teach it. That's the that's the quickest way for you to learn the quickest way. Yeah, and children are fearless. Like they have nothing to lose, right? They're not necessarily like, Oh, I'm not gonna make it. Yeah. Oh, they're honestly to be honest.

52:58

So if you're if you're saying something weird than they are quickly to point that out,

53:02

yeah, I knew I had to take care of my beard. Because I was just letting it go kind of wild and feral. But it was a child in a grocery store. Who just pointed at me and went be weird.

53:18

Like, literally, that's what happened. I can tell you exactly where I went. I said, Okay, Dave, that was a real kind of look at yourself in the mirror.

53:22

I've ever since then telling you like the next week, I went to a to a barber shop. And I've had been getting it worked on ever since. But showing our fearless and honest. Absolutely, especially children with special needs. And I think that's amazing. That's amazing. And I just wish you all the success with that. And you're right. It's it sharpens you. You know, teaching is as much about imparting wisdom as it is about receiving wisdom.

53:54

And I learned as much from my students as I do from like YouTube videos and all of that. Well, yeah, it has been an absolute honor and a pleasure connecting with you today. We've been longtime kind of internet colleagues and virtual colleagues, but to be able to sit down and chat with you has been a real honor. And I hope to see you likewise, man. Yeah, hope to see you in the at the PMC. I don't know if you'll make it in 2024.

54:16

But

54:20

I will I will go there for the first time. So I've been to September this year in LA and I haven't had time to go to the PMC because I was on October and I don't know if you know how expensive the hotels are in LA. But I could not make that gap from September to October in LA. So yeah, I'm going this year.

54:39

The reason I didn't go last year is because or this year is because last year I went to the taxi Road Rally and the PMC back to back.

54:43

So I want to travel twice to LA in six weeks, and that about broke the bank. So I totally understand. I totally understand. Well, if folks if folks want to follow you, how can they can worked with you. I know you mentioned sync my music and you're providing pro feedback over there. But how else can folks connect with you?

55:07

Well, basically up my websites jelledittmar.com, which has all the contacts, links to my Instagram to my Facebook, Facebook, I'm not use them that much anymore. But I'm using a lot of Instagram LinkedIn, I'm very accessible on LinkedIn. So it's Jelle Dittmar, J-e-l-l-e D-i-t-t-m-a-ar, so I'm sure you're going to send them the links, just spitting them out. Or listening

55:37

on the audio podcast. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, well, we'll have links to all of that, including links to the apprehension engine so that you can, you can check that out. But Jelle thank you so much, man,

55:47

I really appreciate so much man for having me.

55:50

Once again, a huge word of thanks to yella for joining me on the podcast today. And as always, we're going to have his links in the description below. So be sure to check those out.

55:59

Also, as always, a huge word of thanks to the family, friends and neighbors subscribers of 52 cues who pay their actual real life money to keep all of this going. You'll notice you didn't hear any embedded ads for mattresses, meal plans or earbuds. And the reason that is because we are 100% supported by community focused composers just like you wanting to become better production and library music producers. So if this sounds like something you're interested in, then why don't you head over to 52Cues.com. And join us it's free to sign up and memberships start at around four bucks a month. You definitely want to tune in next week where we're going to talk about superpowers. See, I believe that instead of us Production Music folks focusing on what's hot, or where the trends are and, and what libraries are writing, we should focus on what we do best, and work out how we can translate that to what libraries need. So next week, we're going to talk about uncovering and discovering your superpower. And we're going to announce our next composer quest. You definitely want to tune in next week for that, but that is going to do it for me this week for week 16 I hope that you've had a stellar week, and I know that you're going to have an amazing week. 17 How do I know that friends? Because I trust and believe that the universe has amazing plans, just for you.