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From Sports media.

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I'm Going to Be Giants. This

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is 7 a.m.

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What

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does standing by while bad things

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happen through to us psychologically

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and spiritually? that's ,

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question father run through a has been

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asking himself for almost

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ten years father road wrote messages

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in supportive refugees climate

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action and same sex marriage on

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the sign out the front of his gospel church

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but according to him

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years of political point scoring on these

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issues as done more than just delay

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as it injured i thought

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on a trolley as moral injury and

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how we can begin to heal

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it birthday to nine

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you've become quite well known in

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recent years as a result of the signs

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that you've been placing out the front of your

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church the signs their political

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their controversial sometimes so maybe

1:06

you could start by telling me about which

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one's your favorite all my favorite that's

1:10

hard the use a minister and the i was

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and he's already puts the side of and

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i will have signs at the said but he's the one who might

1:17

find that are a little bit more list

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of same time i suppose is a good way of

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putting i guess the original one

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that was controversial in the wind was

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, decrease in some people died

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aged over love god god

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suffers controversial one there was always

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other signs the but that was the first

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one the times a

1:37

lot of attention

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he got progressive views about marriage equality

1:44

and asylum seekers and

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not afraid to show them particularly it

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was the one that helped us realize

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that we had a platform

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that way to speak into issues

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that were concerning

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playful challenging playful

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and that kind of remains

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one of my favorites are us

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political ones as well i me i left they

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sort of sips of the things i'm you know

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whip our children up pining over

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gone skiing see an end a eater

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and you've got misses his attorney abbott you but

2:15

misses his has got mars of specific the usual

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sort of fun h one sees the to

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primarily i see under

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all that matters i was to put a christian

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voice the into

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some of these important i'm sorry

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on the site that

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was a different voice to

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somebody of the christian voices that were being heard

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the i wanted people to know that not

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everybody that's a follower of jesus

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that is a gun toting fundamentalist

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at in that sense

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he told me a little bit more rod

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about the reaction that you got

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as you continued to put these signs

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up in as they were reproduced on social

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media and the intense and really

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started to pick what was it like getting

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more and more intense kind of interest

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in what you would do

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polarize reaction as you would expect

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some both sides and various debates

3:11

on the more progressing side

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of cause people they breathed a sigh

3:16

of relief that there was a villager seeger

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was actually speaking out in a positive

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why on this issue and ,

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people who had people who conservative

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use a religious man sit

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around an issue we're very

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upset with me and damn right

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all sorts of latest edition sent

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us a centerpiece demanding not

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be sacked various oath is am

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and then ago at one stage

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we're in a we had to have some

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moderate level of protection fifty

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when i went to space outdoor events

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the police at months died

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simone you've been a to let us know when you're

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going to talk and something that

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is paying extra conscious

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out there then they might be people around

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who they didn't agree

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with me to the point where i might want of

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cause them harm did you get death

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threats oh yes yes

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we had , particular

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particular just prior to the mardi gras

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oh of get with what year it was was the first

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time i time i sydney

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mardi gras and them it was

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something like out we've got you in a got

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hayes and oh

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this is that's a little bit scary and

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and my wife karen i had my wife

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about know whether this was worth of to

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to do this and we

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the an emotional talk about movies the

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my young people who are dying because

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of this the the cultural context

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to their lives and

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i'm we we felt that

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if i would i'm in this was a

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a risk that was worth taking to

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speak , the that context in a way

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that perhaps guys

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a different perspective for those young people

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and it seems interesting i got on

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the firemen and firemen was nervous

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and i was watching i was first floor windows

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and curtains most of us and with things

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like that it's and that but off for about

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ten minutes i just got field up by

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the the atmosphere of the of the night

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and forgot all about him and all was well but

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if they went there with things like that them

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and did cause some anxiety yeah

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for the

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find that you're putting out they really just one thread

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of the broader activism the you are involved

5:38

in i guess when it comes to lgbt

5:41

rights and also the way refugees are treated

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in australia and i think author climate change as

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well as i wonder can you tell me

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a bit more about what it's been like to be fighting

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for those kinds of things for the past ten

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years a time in which but at least some

5:54

of those issues there has been bred

5:55

no progress well it incredibly

5:57

frustrating i'd have to say and with

5:59

yeah question that some

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sides what was the

6:03

points in our especially

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after the twenty nine election you

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know where we actually achieving anything

6:11

and i'm we had various conversations

6:15

around know what approach

6:17

might need to be titan the wheels

6:19

i realize that there are when there are lots of

6:21

wonderful people doing all sorts of

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other things as well and so

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we also realize we're on a a very small

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spoke in a very big oil the

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two together that collective voice

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was really part of the the

6:36

catalyst for change in

6:38

our collective psyche around some

6:40

of these issues

6:42

i want to talk a bit more about our collective

6:44

psyche i suppose and

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the impacts of the last sort of

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ten years particularly i think when

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it comes to inaction on something like

6:53

climate change ends i guess

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the kind of politics that we've had as well in this

6:57

country in an effect me things

6:59

that that has had on all of us

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well i've i've named this is

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moral injury because month

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i didn't invent the term at the time out of the

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the aftermath of the vietnam war

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of us a side tire trust

7:14

by than i am and said johnson shy

7:16

who would was working with the veterans

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the comebacks in the war identified

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as even if they hadn't

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participated themselves and any

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kind of atrocities the affected

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by were a part of a cultural

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society and did they

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themselves felt that

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they carried to the very being

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and been diminished by

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those events i think

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you can apply that

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particular thing as much wider sense

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to any society or culture

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that has participated

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in the in the of other

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human beings whether

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it be on leashes the human

8:00

sexuality door or refugees

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and even the the failure

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to act in

8:07

any way in in terms of this

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me the guiding global sainted has

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, us quite

8:14

considerably the minister national character

8:17

in our society and

8:20

and supporters animal meat

8:22

, a raging against the dawn of

8:24

the life has

8:27

his in some deep sense within myself

8:31

been seeking to to

8:33

meet a guy that ceiling

8:35

of moral injury where

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i've been part of strange saw the

8:40

that has behaved in such

8:42

as an awful way towards this

8:45

often very vulnerable people

8:50

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9:53

Can

9:55

you tell me a little bit more about

9:57

what this time? Moral injury?

10:00

which is he say comes from

10:02

the vietnam war means in terms of the

10:04

australian contexts the things that have happened

10:06

here that you see as parallels

10:09

it's hard to name one thing

10:11

because i i think depends on payments

10:13

experience and perspective they have my own

10:16

i am different things so i think but

10:18

for me the the treatment

10:20

of refugees are over

10:22

the last ten years has

10:25

, upon a

10:27

me as as as a as an individual

10:30

because i spend a lot of time with refugees

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and i'm asylum seekers and and

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sitting in hospital saw a hospital beds

10:37

with people one hundred strikes a

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and on the devastation that

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comes from the diminishing

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of diminishing of people's lives

10:47

in that way so familiar that was that's

10:49

the big one and i think that's why

10:51

think kind of rage against it so much

10:54

because i just felt so diminished

10:57

hi out treatment of these people

10:59

and up since and saw how incredibly

11:02

diminished and and damaged in homs

11:04

those people had been listen

11:06

, stories it's devastating

11:09

stories of how

11:11

people would freeze it on menace it

11:13

on it's like

11:16

a the so i didn't vote for them or i

11:18

wasn't there i didn't do it this

11:21

is sense in which i did

11:23

because i'm part of a a

11:25

whole society the

11:28

didn't say no the

11:32

that and and

11:35

since we wouldn't say though insects

11:37

sense that they may be some political gain

11:39

in this and why the my

11:41

distress in this in this does that say

11:43

about us is our latest sense

11:46

that this will guide them some political

11:48

ground what does it say about us

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as a society

11:52

and what are the effects on us as a society

11:54

of experiencing something i suppose

11:56

the moral injury of those actions

11:59

mcdonnell

12:00

sighs isabel this is moral injury

12:02

is that which diminishes

12:05

character the

12:07

and hi the

12:09

you that the last ten years

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of our political lies has

12:14

diminished our character as as a

12:16

people as a nation and

12:19

, human beings as as a all

12:22

all pretty good at some

12:25

a going into denial and and

12:27

papering over the cracks or ham this to

12:29

understand some i think that's and

12:32

is not a good thing because and until

12:35

we really in guides

12:38

the reality of that diminishing a

12:40

character the capacity there

12:42

is fruit to always happen again

12:46

and even worse wise as

12:49

if he knew that often quoted william like

12:51

close to have

12:54

for able to the to good people just need to do

12:56

nothing

12:57

that idea of taking a stand and saying

12:59

this is what i believe in which i suppose is what you

13:01

are doing in a way through those signs is that

13:04

the queue offer moral injury

13:06

no no i think the with

13:09

the cure for moral injuries

13:13

or or or the the way it is he

13:15

old patches have been have while

13:17

putting that is true

13:19

proof telling and then having

13:22

had that truthful conversation

13:24

some hi and

13:26

of justice of

13:28

restore chief justice not

13:31

so much punitive justice because i think that

13:33

just morally wins everybody again

13:36

and again begin with but restorative

13:38

justice were just

13:40

, is not only behind

13:44

even some financial terms

13:47

that's only a small potter's restorative

13:49

justice or but whereas a

13:51

society says that

13:54

we have learnt from that and now we will

13:56

be different so the

13:58

other issue i this is

14:01

the is some kind of some

14:04

integrity commission national integrity

14:06

commission or that has crew

14:09

authority to bring about restored justice

14:12

and for where you at now personally

14:14

with your activism because that's a sign

14:16

that

14:17

would have gone up almost a decade ago now and

14:20

it sounds like you've been on a road journey since then

14:22

so i just wonder when you take

14:25

a look around us

14:26

that were right now as a country what do you

14:28

think you have much hope

14:31

his arm or must as i'm a hopeless

14:33

hobo really a fucking idea

14:36

because i

14:39

see in march

14:42

i had the privilege the is an

14:44

enormous privileges engaging

14:47

other human beings human beings of their most

14:50

vulnerable and difficult times

14:53

and i see

14:55

sometimes the best

14:57

of this and sometimes the worst more

14:59

often i see the rest

15:02

of humanity the the tensions

15:06

the resilience of humanity the

15:09

the desire of

15:11

human things to connect to laos

15:16

and somehow we've lost

15:19

the language for that people fond

15:21

of really hard to talk about

15:23

love in why other than

15:26

romantic , a

15:28

connoisseur to to talk about deep

15:31

the deep loves that

15:34

we human beings can

15:36

have for one another and

15:39

, hope one day we might regain

15:43

some

15:45

the ability to sight

15:47

of another human being on obvious in

15:50

a way that

15:53

the hills the song

15:58

the right thing she's so much for talking the

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people

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when you try the high court

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has found that the detention of indigenous man

16:42

brendan tom's with legal thomas

16:45

, detained by immigration for more than five

16:47

hundred days due to not having fraley

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and citizenship citizenship a high

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court decision in twenty twenty lead to tom's

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being released from detention on wednesday

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in tom's been to claim sensation of

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her court found that his detention was not

17:00

was and the federal state

17:02

and territory energy minister has convened

17:04

an emergency meeting in a bid to address the

17:07

nation wide escalating gas and electricity

17:09

prices me much the a meeting

17:11

to address the energy crisis comes as an open

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letter was delivered to administer through businesses

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it housing we pulled for a speedy

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move away from natural gas as a solution

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to australia's power crisis it i'm

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murphy giants this is seven am at

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each