This is the 2021-10-28 episode of "Endless Thread"https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/endless-thread-594436/episodes/memes-pt-6-call-me-the-punishe-102750526
Incredible history of the Punisher Skull. How it relates to the discussion about whether movements should have logos and how those logos should be created or chosen made this episode riveting.