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decoding TV. And it's podcast

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0:37

The

0:38

ambulance of the seven serve only to guide us

0:41

on an uncertain path, to remind us of a higher

0:43

loss on return. tomorrow. Which

0:45

authority will sit in judgment of my son's

0:47

claim on his own inheritance?

0:48

That'll

0:49

be mine. And the hands

0:52

But

0:52

be assured the father is just and commands me

0:54

to forget the accusations you have held in this room

0:56

today. Wanna

0:58

purge my email energy

1:01

in the awesome clip just now. Hello,

1:04

everyone, and welcome to cast of Kings, an

1:06

unofficial recap podcast about the HBO

1:08

original series House of the Dragon. I'm

1:10

David Chen. I've never read Fire and Blood,

1:12

the book on which House of The Dragonspace.

1:14

And I'm Kim Renfro, and I have

1:16

read Fire and Blood. The book upon which House of

1:18

The Dragon is based.

1:19

Every week on a guest kings,

1:21

we recap, review,

1:24

spoil. Each week's

1:26

episode of House of Dragon, This week we'll

1:28

be discussing season one episode eight.

1:31

The Lord of the tides. You can find

1:33

more episodes of this podcast at the cast at king's dot

1:35

com. Email us at acasta kings at

1:37

gmail dot com. Find us on TikTok, Twitter,

1:40

YouTube at acasta kings.

1:43

where we have a a slowly

1:45

growing audience of folks watching

1:47

this on YouTube these days. That's very exciting.

1:50

Speaking of our audience, on last

1:52

week's episode of the podcast, I

1:55

may have vaguely hinted

1:58

that I was catching some flack for

2:00

my criticism. Like, I was getting criticized

2:02

for my critiques of House

2:04

of the Dragon. And I

2:06

said, hey, you know, if you if you're enjoying the podcast,

2:09

do write it. Well, we received hundreds of emails this

2:11

week from people saying,

2:13

They actually like the show. So

2:15

that's great to hear. Thanks to everyone

2:17

for writing in with those emails at a caskings gmail

2:19

dot com. We really appreciate it. So

2:22

just wanted to say a quick thank you for that. And

2:24

the show will the podcast will continue to

2:26

be what the podcast is, and

2:28

I have receive enough

2:30

affirmation that we should continue our current

2:32

approach that that's what we'll be doing for the

2:34

the remainder three episodes of this podcast.

2:36

Yes.

2:37

Thank you for the validation and encouragement

2:38

to everyone. It's excellent. Indeed.

2:41

It's extremely appreciated. And I'll just say quickly

2:43

also that, like, this is a thing this is

2:45

dynamic I found that's really

2:47

the

2:49

weird, unfortunate, but basically,

2:51

like, you know, the the stuff that you often

2:53

consume for a really long time, you

2:56

don't often, like, reach out and tell the

2:58

person who you're listening to or

3:00

watching that you like their work because, you know,

3:02

you I think a lot of people assume, like, just to

3:04

the view is enough or just to listen

3:06

is enough. But

3:09

oftentimes what ends up happening then is

3:11

only the malcontents rated. And

3:14

and it creates like a very skewed perspective of

3:16

who's actually watching or listening. So

3:18

this is just my and not I'm not even I'm not fishing

3:20

for more emails. I'm just saying, like, in general, I'm

3:23

saying in general, like, if you if you like

3:25

something, reach out to the person

3:27

and tell them, like, I I practice this in

3:29

my life all the time. Like, I I'm

3:31

tweeting at people, hey, randomly, I listen to

3:33

this person's album. Mhmm. This modify. Right?

3:35

I'm just like, you know what? I'm enjoying this album. I just tweet

3:37

at them. Hey. love the album. They have no idea

3:39

what heck I am. Mhmm. It's a completely

3:41

random note, but I still think it

3:43

is worth it. So -- Yeah. -- putting aside

3:45

Cass of Kings, If you're enjoying work out

3:48

there and you like people what people are doing,

3:50

reach out, tweet at them, write them, tell

3:52

them you like it because

3:54

they're probably not getting a ton of

3:56

that depending

3:57

on who they are, you know, if

3:59

it's not true.

3:59

Maybe they are. But No. It's true. I

4:02

I still remember the first time that you reach

4:04

out to me to tell me that you liked an article

4:06

I wrote. Oh, like, that really sticks in Peoples.

4:09

Wow. I I don't even remember that.

4:12

See? But yeah. There there

4:14

you go. Exactly. See so, Kim, you know, I

4:16

practiced what I preach. You do. And it's very

4:18

appreciated. It was a Westbrook thing.

4:21

Nice. Yeah. So

4:23

speaking of what's

4:25

gonna happen over the course of the next few episodes. I

4:27

think there's been a couple of questions about

4:29

what's going to happen with Acast Kings

4:32

after how the dragon is over.

4:33

the Kim

4:34

and I have talked. There have been

4:37

multiple intense negotiations, but I do

4:39

want to let people know what

4:41

is gonna happen with this podcast feed

4:43

at current, at present

4:45

plan, which could change, at present.

4:49

There the the plan is for

4:51

the podcast to kind of go

4:53

dormant for the most part

4:55

in the off season until the next episode

4:57

next season of House of Dragon. Mhmm. There

5:00

will be occasional updates So if

5:02

there's, like, a big update that drops

5:04

or if the John Stowe show

5:07

goes into production or

5:09

is airing before the next House of Dragon,

5:11

like, We'll probably pop on here and let you know what

5:13

the plan is. And any other kind of

5:15

major Game of Thrones news will kind of try

5:17

to get together a bonus episode. So be sure

5:19

to keep subscribed to this feed. But

5:22

for the most part, again, at this

5:24

point, the plan is for it to kinda go

5:26

quiet until the next season of House of Dragon.

5:28

Mhmm. When will the next season of House of Dragon

5:30

happen? Good

5:32

question. Kim, you have a you

5:34

have a guess out there. Right? Like,

5:36

what's what's your guess as to Season two House

5:38

of Dragon air date? I

5:40

think soonest would be

5:42

spring twenty twenty four,

5:43

so

5:45

about a year and a half out.

5:47

would be, like, the earliest.

5:49

Maybe they're gonna continue

5:52

this pattern of fall premiering.

5:54

Game of Thrones kind of like stuck to

5:56

the same Like, they were always

5:58

putting out new seasons in spring, and

6:00

then it switched at some point when production

6:02

started taking longer. So I think it just depends

6:04

on what the the production schedule is like, but we

6:06

know that they're already working on season two. Howard

6:08

Bauchner: Yeah.

6:09

So anyway, one

6:12

of people know what the plan is probably gonna

6:14

be at least eighteen months until the next

6:16

season that has the dragon, possibly

6:18

as much as two years, maybe even more.

6:20

Who knows? But keep it tuned

6:22

into the Cassie's podcast,

6:24

and we will provide updates in

6:27

the future when possible. there's

6:29

also a possibility that, you know,

6:32

anything is also possible on the podcast

6:34

feed. Things could happen where we

6:36

decide to cover other shows on this podcast

6:38

feed with other permutations of

6:40

hosts or one

6:43

of us could win the lottery and we decide, hey, we're not

6:45

covering House of Dragon next season. Like, anything's

6:47

possible? So if you wanna learn the fate

6:50

of Cast kings, be

6:52

sure to keep subscribed, and we will update

6:54

you. Okay. That

6:57

is it in terms of the pre show

7:00

stuff, the pre recap stuff. Let's

7:02

dive into season one episode eight

7:04

of House of the Dragon.

7:07

The Lord of the tides. This

7:09

episode was written by Aileen Shim

7:11

and directed by Gita Vasant Patel.

7:14

These are, like, relatively new names in the Game of Thrones

7:16

universe as far as I can tell. Right? Yeah.

7:18

First time first time

7:19

we've had a credit for both of these women

7:22

in the show. And as I I did

7:24

some research to confirm this, this is certainly

7:26

the first time across all the Westeros

7:28

shows the Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon,

7:30

that two women have been the the

7:32

main credits on the episode, not to mention

7:34

two women of color. So I think it's pretty

7:36

awesome that we're already seeing a sort of

7:38

shift in the pattern of which types

7:40

of directors and writers are

7:43

getting to take the lead on this story.

7:45

Indeed. Indeed. And

7:48

let's talk about overall thoughts on

7:50

season one episode eight. What

7:52

did you think of the episode, Kim?

7:53

I loved it

7:56

as

7:57

just continuing my pattern here.

8:00

Yeah. I really I loved, like, the

8:02

intimacy of this episode combined

8:04

with a lot of those big sort of awe

8:06

inspiring shots, like the whole

8:08

opening at Dragonstone, or

8:11

like the second up the second scene at

8:13

Dragonstone with Damon

8:15

finally go. Like, we get to see Dragon

8:17

eggs, like, in their natural mesting

8:20

habitat for the first time, like, so many

8:22

cool little, like, lower tidbits

8:24

sprinkled in with a lot of, I think, really,

8:26

really great character moments for our main

8:28

cast of characters.

8:30

What'd you think? I

8:31

really like the episode, Kim. I thought it was a

8:34

pretty great episode. Patty Considine.

8:36

Incredible this episode.

8:39

and really positioned as the

8:41

protagonist of this episode. I think -- Mhmm. --

8:43

in a way that visually

8:46

is super interesting just like the way they did the

8:48

makeup effects visual effects,

8:50

special effects, it all feels really

8:53

authentic and impressive.

8:55

the And of

8:56

course, I have some qualms, but

8:59

overall, I would say, great episode

9:01

of the show. I mean,

9:02

what's been great about

9:04

this Show House of Dragon is,

9:06

again, like, the the strengths

9:08

that I point to from the

9:10

season are each episode feels

9:12

like a self contained story.

9:14

It's very episodic to me, and

9:17

I think this episode does a

9:19

good job of kind of delivering on that

9:21

idea. but

9:23

also like just some great water cooler

9:25

moments. Now, moments

9:28

you have to discuss with other people. Now,

9:31

of those moments would be good, some of them might be

9:33

bad, we'll get to them as we talk

9:35

about this episode. But overall, I

9:37

thought it was great. It's I

9:39

I feel like Watching this

9:42

show, talking about is like a good use of my time.

9:44

It's like a lot to dig into and and

9:46

this episode continues that trend. So Yeah.

9:49

Certainly. Like, not perfect. by

9:51

any means. But, like, I think that

9:53

what they've been doing so far in terms

9:55

of, like, balancing those sort of

9:57

intimate personal character moments

9:59

with, like, the

9:59

bigger spectacle, I think has they've

10:02

struck a really good balance, I think,

10:04

between those two things with the series so far.

10:06

I think

10:07

so. Let's dive into

10:09

what happens this episode.

10:11

Kim,

10:13

in

10:14

this episode, there's been

10:16

a massive time jump. And

10:19

Reinera has had two children off

10:21

screen and it's expecting another one. No.

10:23

I'm sorry. Wait. Sorry, Kim. I

10:25

got my notes this was actually my notes

10:27

for episode six. I apologize. That's

10:31

I I was looking at the wrong thing.

10:33

That's actually My notes are

10:35

episode six. I I'm sorry. No.

10:38

It's the same. But different, but still

10:40

the same. But,

10:44

no, it does it does seem as

10:46

though a a master

10:48

time jump has occurred. Uh-huh. Ramiro has

10:50

had two children off screen. and

10:53

she is pregnant in this episode. I don't think she's

10:55

I don't think she's pregnant episode six. So I

10:57

I did kind of stretch my

10:59

She's still actively giving birth Yes.

11:01

She's actively pregnant. Exactly

11:04

right. Very recently pregnant and

11:07

extremely with extremely minutes

11:09

ago. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So so

11:11

technically what I said was correct. But

11:14

anyway, We

11:16

start with Rainy's at Driftmark.

11:18

And this

11:22

is one time where the actually gives

11:24

you a marker right at the beginning of how much time has

11:26

passed. So thank you very much, Joe.

11:28

They basically we we we find out

11:30

that six years have passed. since

11:34

we last saw Lord Corless who went off and

11:36

go fighting. Right? With the hierarchy and

11:38

the stepping stones and so on, Now,

11:40

I was I was still a little bit confused

11:43

initially because it was six years since

11:45

Cordless left, but we didn't see him leave

11:47

less of So I was like -- Right. -- how long actually has it been? Has it

11:49

been, like, eight years, ten years?

11:52

But I think it's you're meant to

11:54

understand that it's been roughly six years.

11:56

Yeah. You're meant to you're meant to

11:58

assume that Corollus

11:59

departed very shortly after the events

12:02

of last episode where Lainor died.

12:04

die. So

12:09

so Corollus is a bad

12:11

state. apparently, his

12:13

neck has been slashed and he fell overboard

12:15

into the sea, and he has a

12:17

fever. And it's very likely he's gonna die on the way

12:19

back home. That's kind of what

12:21

coreless the situation is. Mhmm. They don't

12:23

know if he's dead, but they're like, hey, we should

12:25

prepare for the possibility that if he's gonna die.

12:27

Vamend,

12:29

who in

12:31

the show, I believe is

12:33

Corollus' brother -- Yeah. --

12:35

but you have said in the book it's

12:37

actually Corless' nephew.

12:39

Right?

12:39

Yeah. He's his eldest nephew in

12:42

according to Fire and Blood, but they've

12:45

they referred to him as, like, uncle like,

12:47

Leonor referred to him as uncle

12:49

earlier in the season and stuff. So I believe that they've

12:51

sort of simplified

12:52

that relationship to just be that

12:54

Vamend

12:54

is Cordless' brother and therefore

12:57

the closest.

12:57

The point is that he is the closest blood

12:59

relative to Cordless

13:02

at this point who is still alive. if

13:04

you don't count passwords, which

13:06

is a a decent chunk of characters and the

13:08

show do not like counting passwords.

13:10

So Mhmm.

13:12

Well,

13:13

That's the

13:13

whole tension of this episode. And

13:16

this and this scene, right, which is

13:18

that the idea as we saw

13:20

last episode, Corless'

13:22

will was that driftmark

13:24

passed on to Luceris,

13:26

aka Luke, aka Venira's

13:28

sun -- Mhmm. -- or Raynira

13:31

and Leonor's son

13:33

-- Right. -- ostensibly, but it's not really

13:35

Leonor's son. It's not Leonor's blood.

13:38

but it is rarer sun. Now and

13:42

and as Cordless put it last episode, names

13:44

matter more than blood. History remembers

13:47

names. Vamend is

13:49

not that progressive. Vamend is more like

13:51

actually history remembers blood

13:53

and he thinks that he has a stronger claim

13:55

to be drift mark throne. then

13:58

does Luceris, aka Luke, aka

14:00

Reniere and Leonor's child? Yes.

14:02

Exactly. And so that's that's kind of the

14:04

argument here. in the

14:06

opening scene of this episode is,

14:09

can Raymond be

14:12

in the line of succession and Rainy's

14:15

is kind of noncommittal, but

14:17

she is fairly clear that, like, hey, Vayman,

14:19

by even touching upon this, you're entering dangerous

14:22

territory. Right. awfully

14:24

close to being a traitor to the to the

14:26

house of Laura

14:28

Corelis' house. So -- Right. only

14:30

other thing I would mention is obviously Bayla's

14:32

there. We learn later, Bayla who

14:35

is Damon and

14:38

Layna's daughter. Right?

14:40

Yes. Youngest daughter. Yep.

14:42

Mhmm. She's chilling there at Driftmark, and

14:44

we later find out that she

14:47

was sent to Ward at Driftmark

14:49

which is basically Rainy's

14:52

and their family are taking care

14:54

of Bayla and it's a kind of way to make

14:56

sure that Damon

15:00

doesn't go rogue and do something wild

15:02

and upsetting. Right? Or

15:04

Damon and Rainyra don't do

15:06

something that would damage Driftmark.

15:07

Yeah. I'm not they don't really explain

15:10

the reasoning behind Bayla

15:12

wording there. Like, I think we've talked

15:14

about this in in previous episodes,

15:16

but we've seen, like, the version of

15:18

Ward of, like, theon Greyjoy and Game of

15:20

Thrones. Right? We're, like, it's effectively it's

15:22

a hostage situation. that

15:24

is there to kind of maintain a peace.

15:26

But there are situations where a word

15:29

simply means like a high born child

15:31

who's who's not first in line for

15:33

anything necessarily or, like, the younger children,

15:35

get sent to ward mostly as, like,

15:37

it's educational. Like, she's

15:39

being trained to be a lady of the

15:41

court to buy rainy, so

15:43

driftmark, they don't really make it clear if that

15:45

was like a strategy

15:47

thing or if it's simply just like them

15:49

trying to continue

15:50

supporting the family. I thought it was relatively

15:52

clear in the scene where Damon

15:54

and Rainier meets for the first time

15:56

in this episode, which is that

16:01

they they imply that, hey, Rainy's is

16:03

still a little bit mad because she

16:05

thinks that Rainyra killed Lainor. Right.

16:07

And so they, you know, they they like,

16:10

sending Bayla to Ward

16:12

with Raynys was kind of a way to kind

16:14

of keep tensions in check. was that was

16:16

my understanding of it. Yeah. No. You're

16:18

totally right. Yeah. Okay.

16:21

So any other thoughts on this opening scene with

16:23

Raymond? I think it does a great job of kinda

16:25

setting up the the conflict of the

16:27

episode.

16:27

Yeah. And I think especially when he

16:29

says, like, his his sort of

16:31

final rebuttal to Rainey's is

16:33

that Like, he

16:35

knows that viseris would not take his

16:37

side. Everyone by now has presumably found

16:39

out about the event of episode

16:42

seven where Alison had this big outburst

16:44

and Vocera's kind of was like, once and for

16:46

all, nobody ever talk about this

16:48

again. Vamend is very

16:50

aware that Allison would probably take

16:52

his side and says that the

16:54

queen sits the throne these days, and that is

16:56

why he feels like he has

16:58

a good enough chance to go and

17:01

make his case because he he's

17:03

very confident that Alison would be on

17:05

his side. Indeed.

17:09

We see Dragonstone in

17:11

its full glory again. All the Dragonstone

17:13

establishing shots have been pretty awesome

17:15

this season. And there

17:16

is an

17:17

incredible shot of

17:20

Damon kind of descending into a

17:22

Dragon lair. And I was like, is mind

17:24

blowing how good this is good? I'll

17:26

just describe the shop briefly for those who are

17:28

only listening, but basically,

17:30

like, you see you're looking

17:32

down or up

17:34

above from the ground and you see

17:36

these massive rocks that have like

17:38

tiny space in between them with like a

17:40

tiny beam of light and then you see

17:42

a man in that space. And it's Damon, and

17:44

he's going down to get three

17:46

dragon eggs from

17:48

Xerox -- Mhmm. -- one of

17:50

the dragons. And it's just

17:52

an incredible visual of, like,

17:54

just this tiny dude, like, against the

17:56

elements, it's incredible. It's incredible shot.

17:58

Mhmm. He goes down, he gets these three eggs.

17:59

From what exactly is like a

18:02

pouch of some kind? Kim, can you help me

18:04

with this?

18:04

It seems to be some sort of like

18:06

covered over nest. Like, they refer

18:08

to them as a clutch of eggs. So it's

18:10

like I imagine this dragon, like,

18:12

dug a little hole, like a dog,

18:15

laying some eggs, and then put

18:17

some stuff over it till I keep them

18:19

warm and happy. And then Damon is

18:21

effectively like harvesting the eggs. It's

18:23

almost like a really weird version of like

18:25

getting the eggs from your chicken coop.

18:26

but, like, your chicken coop is

18:28

a massive mountain and you have

18:30

to go,

18:31

like, do some dangerous rock

18:33

climbing in order to get your eggs.

18:36

Well, it seemed like when he he put

18:38

his pickaxe into the

18:40

clutch order, there was, like, some kind of organic

18:42

material. So it was

18:45

it was interesting. It was it was not like

18:48

anyway. Yeah. Whatever we we

18:50

learn a little bit more about how

18:52

dragons birth to eggs or

18:54

lay eggs, basically. Yeah.

18:57

And the dragon

18:59

keepers say that Bayless sent

19:01

a message and it warns Damon

19:03

about Damon heading for Kings Landing.

19:07

You actually have a text of a message here

19:09

in the show notes, Kim. How did you get that? You It's

19:11

a great shot. Wow.

19:13

And then

19:14

just like, I had

19:16

to take multiple screenshots because, like, different parts

19:18

of the letter are

19:19

exposed at different types in the shot.

19:21

But, yes, I figured I got the full text.

19:23

Oh. which is,

19:25

quote, father, I write with news of Uncle Vaiman, who

19:27

this moment sails for Kings Landing, he plans to appeal to

19:29

his grace the king on matters of succession

19:32

rights and the sanctity of blood. He wishes for the

19:34

driftwood thrown to pass to him,

19:36

that is his by rights and that he is the

19:38

only unattainted

19:41

choice. and foot. Yeah. I had to look up that

19:42

word because I was like, I'm not sure if I'm transcribing

19:44

this right, but it's a word. It basically means,

19:46

like, unspoiled or, like,

19:49

uncompromised. Yeah. I

19:51

love

19:51

that that was all written down.

19:53

Like, some some person some artist had

19:55

to, like, sit down and, like, write that

19:58

message for it to be

20:00

shown in probably two seconds of the show

20:02

that then Kim Ren for a screenshot and then

20:04

it makes its way onto a

20:06

cast of Kings podcast. And hopefully

20:09

here If you're listening to this artist out there who wrote

20:11

that down, you who experienced vindication

20:13

that your work was appreciated. Yes. Really

20:15

cool handwriting, by the way. Whoever

20:17

whoever did that. It was

20:19

very neat. Raynira comes

20:22

into the throne room at Dragonstone,

20:25

and we meet Jayce practicing Kyle Valera

20:27

in front of the map

20:29

table with a mastern. Obviously, Jason

20:31

Luke are both

20:33

significantly older than we saw in the last episode,

20:36

but Yeah. You had a

20:38

you had an Easter egg about the Maister in this

20:41

scene. Right? Yeah.

20:42

So this Maister

20:44

comes right from the books. He's named in

20:46

Fire and Blood Maastricht Gerardis,

20:49

and it's spelled GERARDYS

20:52

in the books. But

20:54

I'm Almost positive, this is a reference to George

20:56

r Martin's agent and one of the

20:58

executive producers on House of the Dragon,

21:00

Vince Georgardis. Vince

21:03

spells his last name, GERARDIS

21:06

but it's like George just gave it

21:07

the little westerosi Bins switched that

21:09

eye to a

21:10

y and then gave his

21:12

agent and and collaborator a

21:14

nice little nice little cameo

21:16

in the story here. Yeah.

21:19

Over the

21:19

course of the episode, we find out that,

21:21

again, ranira has had two children

21:24

since last episode,

21:26

which now has

21:28

544

21:28

children

21:31

total. Right? With five Five living

21:33

children. I have living children with one on the way.

21:35

Six on the way. Yeah. Okay.

21:37

So her children are Luke Chase?

21:40

Joffrey. Joffrey,

21:42

egg on.

21:44

to make things more of concern. the third. Yeah.

21:46

I got the third. And then who's the fifth

21:48

one? Viceris, the second. Viceris. That's right.

21:50

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Mhmm.

21:53

So yeah. And

21:55

we meet some of those kids in the scene

21:57

as well. Yeah. And she's pregnant again. This

21:59

so this would be her third baby

22:02

with Damon. Yes. In this episode.

22:04

Yeah. So she has three with

22:05

Harwin Strong, but under the guise of

22:07

them being Leonor's children, and now she

22:09

is on her way to having three

22:11

children. with Damon who

22:12

are true, true born children conceived

22:15

under

22:15

marriage and all that jazz.

22:18

Yeah. daemon tells her

22:19

about the unfortunate news and they decide they need

22:21

to head off to Kings Landing. Any further

22:24

thoughts on the sequence before we move

22:26

on, Kim? I

22:26

thought it was a

22:29

good there was

22:30

this, like, little exchange where Chase

22:32

is, like, frustrated that he's not picking

22:34

up on high valiri and fast enough

22:36

And Rayonera kinda

22:39

says, like, well, she basically tells him,

22:41

like, well, you've have time. Like, you don't

22:43

all this pressure that you're putting on yourself to

22:45

live

22:45

up to your ancestors. he's

22:47

presumably

22:47

not going to be king until

22:50

Rayonira is dead. And she kind of says, like, that's

22:52

a long way off. And so I think it does a

22:54

good job of sort of setting the stage

22:56

of, like, this whole

22:58

bastard accusation conversation

23:00

coming up again, it sort of reminds

23:02

you that, like, none of this should be very

23:04

urgent. Like, even if Vicero dies

23:06

tomorrow, which, as we see later in the episode, he

23:08

does, Raynira is the one who's next

23:10

in line for the throat and she is certainly

23:12

the true blood. child of Acerus.

23:14

And so I just thought

23:16

it was like a neat way of kind of like alluding

23:18

to the fact that, like, there's

23:20

an

23:20

urgency placed upon this conversation that

23:22

right near it isn't necessarily feeling because

23:25

she just is under

23:26

the assumption that she is going to quickly Ascend

23:28

the

23:28

throne and that presumably

23:29

for a

23:30

couple more decades, be able continue

23:32

teaching Jayce how to follow

23:33

in her footsteps. Indeed. I'm

23:35

sure it's gonna be smooth sailing for a year

23:38

before. So Uh-huh.

23:40

We're gonna take a quick break and thank a

23:43

sponsor. We'll be right back and see what's

23:45

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com. We cut to

25:21

Allison. She

25:24

is in the small council room.

25:26

She's apparently running this whole thing at

25:28

this point in time. Quite quite a

25:30

step up from when we first met Allison

25:32

Hyatt hour who, you know, was

25:34

we we had to ask, like, why is she even

25:36

in the room at this point? To now, she's basically

25:39

running the place. Mhmm. She's sitting in

25:41

Vocera's seat. He's not even

25:43

there anymore. And they're kinda going over

25:45

the business of what's happening

25:47

in in

25:49

the the

25:50

in king's landing and and

25:52

all all the land and

25:54

kind of dealing with the economics

25:57

of it. you clocked all the people

25:59

sitting at the table. Right,

25:59

Kim? Yeah.

26:00

So we now have obviously auto

26:03

high towers hand of the king again

26:05

in his proper seat. We have Grand master

26:07

Orweil who is the

26:09

maestro who replaced Grand master Melos. He's

26:11

the one who's been presumably keeping the

26:13

Sayers alive for way longer

26:16

than another maestro might have been able to keep

26:18

him. We have Lord Linen

26:20

Biesbury, who's the master of coin.

26:22

That's played by the same actor

26:24

forgive me. I'm blanking on his name right now. It's from

26:27

Freeback. He plays the dad in Freeback. That's

26:29

why I see every time I see him talk, I'm

26:31

like,

26:31

oh, There

26:32

goes Lord, Biesberry again. We have

26:34

Tyler Glanister who we met in the Big Stag

26:36

Hunt episode earlier this season. Bill Patterson is

26:38

the name of the actor, buddy. Bill Patterson,

26:40

thank you very much. Thylen

26:42

Lannister is the master of ships at this

26:45

point. Lara Strong is not at the

26:47

table, but in fired blood he's still referred

26:49

to at this point as the bash of

26:51

whispers. And then Jasper

26:54

Wilde has one line, I believe, in the

26:56

scene. He's the master of laws.

27:00

and his his nickname is

27:01

rod Ironrod,

27:02

which has a little euphemistic

27:05

connotation in fire and blood

27:06

about his

27:07

privates. Mhmm.

27:09

I don't know that I don't

27:11

know that they're gonna let us know that in

27:13

the show. I hope they

27:15

cover the origin of the term in

27:17

how's

27:17

the drag? So,

27:20

though yeah,

27:21

there's a little conversation, but it's

27:23

just very clear that Allison's running the

27:25

place. She leaves and then meets with

27:28

sir Eric Cargill, who she mistakes

27:31

for his twin brother, who's also in the King's

27:33

Guard, whose whose

27:35

name is Eric with an a instead of

27:37

an a. It was it

27:39

was a weird moment. I'm like, is this gonna become

27:41

important later that she made this

27:43

mistake? You know, it's kind of a weird

27:45

I don't know if you had any thoughts of why they

27:47

did that. I almost thought it was

27:48

just like a funny it was like

27:51

an almost meta, like, I

27:53

can't keep track of.

27:55

these Eric and Eric

27:57

alike type of There are

27:59

there are

27:59

literally three eggons referred to

28:02

in this episode of That's

28:04

the drug. Three egg ons, two

28:06

vissaris. Yeah. Two vissaris.

28:08

Yep. Two vissaris. Two vissaris.

28:10

We've got a Damon and an

28:12

Aamond.

28:13

a Rainy's rainier Raina.

28:15

Any

28:17

am I missing one? I'm like Wait.

28:19

Lena or Lena? Did you say that already? Yeah. We know

28:21

about Lena or Lena. Yeah. And, yeah, the funny

28:23

I to me, the funniest thing about Eric and Eric is

28:26

that they sounded the same. Like, even

28:28

when, like -- Yeah. -- corrects

28:30

her and she's like, oh, yeah. Sorry, sir

28:32

Eric. and I'm barely hear a switch of that

28:35

that

28:35

vowel. But, yes, Eric and Eric

28:38

are twins. who

28:40

are mentioned in fire and blood. So I

28:41

think for some book readers, they were waiting to

28:43

see if if these kengard KengardTwins

28:46

were going to make an appearance in the show.

28:48

And here they are.

28:49

Let's follow the

28:52

Alison storyline for just a little bit longer.

28:54

Yeah. She makes she can't figure out which

28:56

Eric is guarding her, but whatever. one

28:58

of the Eric Steller, hey, there's a delicate situation

29:00

that's happened in the apartments. And

29:04

we don't we're never told what it is.

29:06

We just kind of, like, infer what

29:08

it is from what happens next, which is

29:10

she kind of meets with Diana

29:12

who is a terrified made

29:14

kind of cowering in fear

29:17

who recounts the story of what happened.

29:19

And essentially, I I think

29:21

what we can conclude is that

29:24

Aegon

29:24

gone who is

29:26

Allison's oldest child.

29:28

I'm saying it deliberately because I'm always just

29:30

checking to make sure I'm saying egg on and

29:33

not Eamon Yes. Eggon, her oldest child, the one

29:35

with the one who still has both

29:37

of his eyes. Yes. He A

29:41

sexually assaulted Diana. Essentially is kind of what

29:43

we're led to believe. And

29:47

this scene I thought was

29:49

absolutely incredible.

29:51

Because

29:52

of Olivia

29:54

Cook's performance, we talked on

29:56

our Twitter space last night

29:59

about how

29:59

she reminded me of Gus Fring, honestly, in this

30:02

segment. Literally,

30:04

she's saying all the exact correct words you're

30:06

supposed to say and she's expressing

30:09

sympathy, but, like, deep down, she's

30:11

obviously feeling something very different.

30:13

And every everything she

30:16

is saying is calculated to get a

30:18

specific result from this

30:20

situation -- Mhmm. -- which is

30:22

compliance for this person.

30:24

Compliance and silence. Yes.

30:27

And it's really chilling.

30:29

What Olivia Cook is doing in this

30:31

scene, and I thought brilliantly played.

30:35

And and sad to see that

30:37

basically she has been weaponized

30:39

by the patriarchy. Right? Like, this is -- Exactly. --

30:41

she she could've Allison could've easily herself

30:43

been in that situation when

30:46

she was younger. And now

30:48

we see that she is now

30:50

part of the oppressive system --

30:52

Yeah. -- or the oppressive them. Right? Yeah. What

30:54

are your She's she's

30:55

reinforcing the

30:57

idea that

31:00

the

31:00

humanity of this serving girl does not matter

31:02

in the context of the, like, the

31:04

royal family and the implications for

31:06

what would

31:07

happen if, like, more people knew that this was going

31:10

on. Yeah. I I

31:12

totally agree with you that Olivia Cook

31:13

does a phenomenal job in the

31:15

scene of,

31:17

like, she's

31:19

she's giving off,

31:22

like,

31:22

really threatening vibes at

31:24

the same time that she's being

31:27

like you said, saying all the right things, you know, she

31:29

embraces her, she, like, starts to kinda

31:31

validate her, but it's almost more

31:33

painful that, like, you see her

31:35

say, like, I believe you, you

31:38

know, showing this empathy and then

31:40

turn around and say like, what?

31:41

what

31:42

I worry about is

31:44

that, like, you were the one who was alone

31:46

with him and, like, what might others believe

31:49

were your intentions type of

31:51

things. So yeah, it like, it

31:53

that scene unfolds to the point that

31:55

I'm like, it was it was also giving

31:57

me cersei

31:58

vibe. lives. Right? Like, in

31:59

in Game of Thrones, we saw Kirsty have

32:02

sort of similar conversations with Sansa

32:04

or

32:04

characters who, like,

32:06

are clearly terrified, they want

32:09

to be comforted by the queen, and yet

32:11

what they wind up with is feeling like

32:13

worse than

32:13

ever. And so yeah, by the time

32:15

that the tea comes in, I was like, is she about to

32:18

poison her like, it almost felt

32:20

like it felt like a like

32:22

a spider lulling someone into a false sense of security

32:24

right before

32:25

the blow lands. I I agree

32:27

that did feel really weird

32:29

to me in the sense that III

32:31

was like, oh, is this is this

32:34

girl going to be killed? Like, that that was

32:36

my whole question. Then Allison

32:38

hands her money, and then I'm like, oh, like,

32:40

she probably wouldn't hand her money if she's kill her. And

32:43

then and then the later hands her the tea, and then, like,

32:45

forced her to drink it in front of her. And then I'm, like,

32:47

okay. I think this will probably, like,

32:49

She she why why that if she was just gonna kill her?

32:51

It doesn't make doesn't make sense. So

32:53

I don't think she killed her. But

32:56

yeah. It it yes. Go ahead.

32:58

Yeah. I

32:58

don't think she did either, but I

33:00

am waiting to

33:02

see that serving girl. I'm waiting

33:04

for Diana to pop up again in a future

33:06

scene or else have some other

33:09

illusion to the fact that she has

33:11

remained missing. Right? Because we don't see her again

33:13

after that

33:13

scene in this episode. Yes. She's

33:15

she's referred to. Right. Because,

33:18

you know, I think it's Helena that

33:20

says, like She was supposed to dress the children.

33:22

She's supposed to dress children.

33:24

And also, we

33:26

should mention that at

33:28

this point, Aegon Rainier

33:31

is I'm sorry. Allison's

33:33

oldest child -- Uh-huh. --

33:35

even though Rainier also has an egg on.

33:37

Uh-huh. Egg on you know,

33:40

blonde child who is Alison's

33:42

oldest has married

33:44

Helena, also

33:45

Alison's child -- Yes. -- who is

33:48

blonde. Yeah. So they are husband and and I guess the Targaryens

33:50

are cool with the incest stuff going on

33:52

at this point. Right. It's

33:54

like the high towers the

33:56

high powers have existed. seem to have

33:57

given any objection to the Targaryen tradition

33:59

of brother

33:59

and sister marrying.

34:02

If it helps, from now on, this

34:04

is something that is actually noted in

34:06

thyroid blood. Now that there are the two egg ons, they are

34:08

referred to as egg on the elder

34:10

and egg on the

34:12

younger. Mhmm. So if we want to just say egg on the elder

34:14

anytime

34:14

that we're referring to, viseris and

34:17

Alison's child. Yep. versus egg

34:19

on the younger is Damon and

34:22

Rainier's baby.

34:23

What was also

34:24

I'll just say what was incredibly confusing

34:26

to me, Kim, too, was Obviously, Eamon

34:29

is Aegon's younger brother. In this

34:31

episode, he's played by an actor that in

34:33

my opinion looks way older and he's in

34:35

fact taller than Aegon.

34:38

However, I I did since get some emails and tweets basically saying

34:41

the actor in real

34:43

life is older you

34:46

know, the Aegon actor in real life is older than the Aymond actor.

34:48

And also, as you pointed out to

34:50

me, Kim, in the space last night,

34:53

it's not atypical for, like, a

34:55

younger sibling to be taller than all the other siblings.

34:57

So Yeah. But I will say it would and

35:00

I I think, also, it matches what's depicting

35:02

the show matches the book. is my

35:04

understanding too, in terms of the description of these

35:06

characters. But as a show

35:08

watcher, it was incredibly confusing. But

35:10

I'll get over it. a good of it. Yeah.

35:12

I think if

35:12

there wasn't, like, a dramatic ice

35:15

scar and patch, like, it would have

35:16

been way worse. I was, like, okay. At

35:19

least we, like Yes. there's,

35:21

like, a very physical marker that says, like, this is aiming

35:23

at this

35:23

point. But, yeah,

35:26

I agree. in

35:28

terms of it matching the books. And I think that they do a pretty good job of showing you

35:30

this over the course

35:31

of this episode. It's kind of clear that Eamon

35:33

of

35:33

all of

35:36

the siblings of

35:38

Allison and Vocera's children that, like, Eamon is

35:40

the most capable

35:42

sort of strategic

35:45

I don't know,

35:46

like, princeling of the mom. Right? Like, we

35:49

see him defeat Kristen Cole in the training

35:51

yard. And the last time, like, Kristen

35:53

was the only person to defeat Damon in that

35:56

tournament in the pilot episode. So, like, you're supposed

35:58

to get the sense that Damon has

35:59

grown into a

36:02

very, capable and threatening presence, whereas Aegon is

36:04

kind of like just Oh, wait a

36:06

stroll.

36:06

Yes. Yeah.

36:08

Yeah.

36:09

Well, after

36:10

this scene where

36:12

Alison High Tower buys off Diana

36:14

Silence. And also, by the way, like, a lot

36:16

of people brought up a succession season

36:20

two I think it's in season

36:22

two with Shivri like,

36:24

there's an extremely similar scene in

36:26

succession season two where a a female

36:29

character in that show does a very similar

36:31

thing as Alison does in this show. It's

36:33

equally chilling. I would argue -- Yeah.

36:35

-- and really well

36:37

done. So great great

36:40

scene. Alison then goes to egg on

36:42

his room and yells at

36:44

him and he

36:46

he seems to be so emotionally disconnected from

36:48

everything right now. He doesn't even doesn't even

36:50

seem to understand why anyone could be bothered

36:53

by it. So it's like, pretty

36:55

chilling and disturbing his lack of moral compass whatsoever.

36:58

Yeah. She slaps

37:00

him and says like,

37:02

basically, says, you are no son of mine. He kinda

37:04

disowns

37:05

him. But

37:06

and then, like, hello go

37:09

ahead. I just think

37:09

it's so interesting that in

37:12

we're seeing all

37:13

this public conversation and debate

37:15

around like the legitimacy of

37:17

sons and all this stuff in the fact

37:19

that in private Alison is, like, that

37:21

the relationship is fraught to the point that Alison

37:23

is saying, like, you are no son of mine, but then of

37:25

course she's

37:26

gonna go in public say, like, this is my

37:28

son and the only true born heir to, you

37:30

know, like, there's just a there's

37:32

a disconnect that I think

37:33

is intention of showing like what happens in

37:35

the privacy of all these families interactions versus what the

37:38

public realm is understanding is

37:40

the case. So

37:42

she's doing a very good job of preserving his public reputation

37:44

while clearly in private she's struggling with

37:47

the way that he's behaving.

37:48

the hearing

37:49

Right. Similarly,

37:50

similarly Not that we have a

37:52

posting viewpoints on this topic, Kim. But,

37:55

you know, Raynira, obviously, putting

37:57

everything on the line defending

37:59

the legitimacy of her children -- Yeah.

38:01

-- when she knows that they are

38:03

not legitimate. Yeah. And so

38:05

I agree that That's

38:08

something this show explores is the

38:10

difference between how these characters present themselves in

38:12

public, what is necessary for the social

38:14

order to continue what reality in private

38:17

is. Yeah. And that's that's

38:19

an interesting dichotomy. She

38:22

also hugs Helena, right, in this

38:24

in this scene. And

38:26

you you do get a

38:30

sense like, She doesn't

38:32

seem to have any real compassion for Diana, but

38:34

she does have compassion for her

38:36

daughter, Helena, who needs

38:38

to be married to Aegon, who is a

38:40

terrible person. I I sense real compassion there, but

38:42

on in her performance, but I'm curious what your

38:44

reaction was. Yeah. I think I

38:45

would agree. I

38:48

think that Allicent must understand that Helena has

38:50

basically been put in the same position that

38:52

Alison was put in when she was

38:54

a teenager. It

38:57

wasn't Helena's choice to be married to

38:59

Aegon. It wasn't Aegon's choice to

39:01

marry Helena. That seems to just have

39:03

been a strategic betrothel.

39:04

And clearly, Helena, she seems

39:06

Like, Helena seems okay throughout this episode, but almost in like a

39:09

I'm gonna pretend like it's like

39:11

she's like doing a

39:14

little self

39:14

protection thing. I'm like, oh, it's not too bad, but, sometimes when he's

39:17

drunk, my husband brother

39:19

assaults me. I think

39:21

it was, like, the implication. you

39:24

know, it's it's really sad, but, like, you you do get

39:26

the sense that Allison

39:28

is trying to

39:30

remain

39:31

present for Helena throughout all of

39:33

this as opposed to just like

39:35

leaving her

39:36

be. So, yeah, I thought that that hug

39:39

was sincere.

39:39

Yeah. Then she goes to Viceris'

39:42

chambers where she confronts

39:44

Reneera and Damon, and Reneera

39:46

and Damon are very concerned with

39:49

how she's treating the king. They seem

39:51

to be kind of democratizing the Kim,

39:53

like keep keeping him under

39:55

the influence of the Westrose equivalent of morphine, which is

39:57

milk of the poppy. And as a

39:59

result, it allows them to kind of retain

40:02

power and

40:04

and shape the small council and the kingdom to their will. Mhmm.

40:09

So, yeah, any

40:11

other

40:11

thoughts on, like, Allison's

40:13

sequence of events here before we get to what

40:16

happens with Raniere during this equivalent

40:18

time frame?

40:18

Just overall, I

40:21

think it's really I think that they did a

40:23

really good job of showing how has, like, pivoted her strategy in

40:26

the last six years. Like,

40:28

when we left off in episode seven, she

40:30

was pretty She had been

40:32

kicked down a few notches I think because of

40:34

her outburst and, like, the attack in front of

40:36

all of the lords and ladies and she was sort of

40:38

having to be substant

40:40

towards viseris again. And then

40:42

we jump here and she's much

40:44

more like her hair is like

40:46

completely tightened up and braided to her as

40:48

opposed to, like, episode seven. It was mostly down and the whole time. She has

40:51

on all of these, like, ornamental faith

40:53

of the seven bits.

40:56

She's redecorated. the castle to

40:58

be more faith of the seven. So I just think, like,

41:00

this entire introduction does a really good

41:01

job I think of showing

41:04

her her

41:04

new strategy of, like, I'm

41:07

going to be the pious calm, cool

41:09

collected one who's, like, ruthlessly in control

41:11

of as

41:11

much as I can be at

41:14

this stage.

41:16

Yeah.

41:16

Damon is really upset that she's taking down

41:18

all the orgy tapestries and that put

41:20

up, like, religious posters basically everywhere.

41:22

Right? It's kind of what the equivalent is.

41:26

pretty. Yeah. Yeah. I think that they're

41:28

seeing they're seeing a

41:29

very clear visual representation of

41:31

the shift in

41:32

ruling power inside the

41:35

castle. Mhmm.

41:35

Mhmm.

41:37

Well,

41:37

during this time frame, Rinura

41:40

also meets viseris

41:42

for the first time after a while. introduces

41:44

Viceris to her two new children --

41:47

Mhmm. -- AKA, Joffrey,

41:50

and Viceris. No.

41:52

Aegon. The fan fan Aegon and vistaris. End

41:54

vistaris. Jeffree, you

41:56

didn't

41:57

wanna pick the Yeah. Joffrey

41:59

is the youngest of the

41:59

strong bastards.

42:02

Oh, I see. Nice. her

42:03

carers. So she has three dark

42:05

haired boys that she had with

42:06

Harwin Strong who are purported to be Laynor's children.

42:08

And then her two children of the

42:10

Damon are very clearly blonde and

42:12

target area

42:13

and Targaryen. So egg on the third

42:15

is,

42:15

like, the older and vissaras

42:17

the second is, like, a a

42:20

baby

42:20

or, like, a one year

42:22

old. Okay.

42:23

Sorry

42:24

about that, Kim. No.

42:27

I mean, look, you are

42:29

not alone in, like, the

42:31

the

42:31

naming confusion, so we could keep recapping

42:33

it as much as

42:35

possible. It

42:36

it feels like a double whammy of

42:39

both the names are all the same and also the

42:41

show is doing very very little

42:43

to help you out in my opinion.

42:45

Like, they're Yeah. so many things a

42:47

show could do. Like, hey, here's the thing. The

42:50

first episode of the show started with a

42:52

voice over.

42:54

from

42:54

Riniura. Right? If it's like they they could voice over,

42:56

like, in the time since last episode,

42:59

these things have happened. I

43:01

had a and they show the child and say, you know, like, there's somebody that

43:03

I'm not saying that would have been, like, artful, but

43:06

I don't know that, like, leaving a ton of

43:08

the audience in a state of confusion is artful

43:10

either. You know? Yeah.

43:12

But here's

43:13

what I will say. Despite how

43:15

my my many

43:16

qualms with how the show is handling

43:18

the time jumps, this episode, not

43:20

only just doing the time

43:23

stamps themselves, but again, how

43:25

they're handling these transitions, This

43:27

episode I think makes the strongest

43:30

case for the approach

43:32

that the show has taken -- Mhmm. -- which

43:33

is to say,

43:35

Both a,

43:36

casting Olivia Cook, who

43:38

is awesome last episode and is awesome this

43:40

episode. Right? But

43:43

also, Seeing Vocera's body disintegrate before

43:45

you as the show goes

43:48

on, the full weight of that really does

43:50

hit you this episode.

43:52

yeah Yeah.

43:53

And I don't know. Maybe if they

43:55

had spread this out over two seasons, it wouldn't

43:57

hit as hard. But whatever

43:59

the case is, when when Europe meets Vocera's for

44:01

the first time, I was I was in

44:04

awe of what I was seeing just

44:06

in terms

44:07

of the the visual effects. Like -- Yeah.

44:09

-- when when she touches his hand, like,

44:11

you see his hands are,

44:13

like, skinny around

44:16

like, between the knuckles. Yeah. Like, he's

44:18

lost so much weight

44:19

You saw some sort of How did they

44:21

do how did they do this in

44:23

in, you know, TV

44:25

shows and films, it's very easy to

44:27

add prosthetics onto people. Much harder to,

44:29

like, take away, be subtractive. And so,

44:31

like, did they use a body double? Did

44:33

they use visual effects? they it

44:35

was at someone else's hand, you know, like, how do they even do it? because

44:37

it looks completely real. And it's a it's an

44:40

amazing effect.

44:42

Like, And it's so subtle too.

44:44

Like, I think, like, you watch it and you're like,

44:46

most people probably just be, oh, that's just a guy

44:48

who's, like, lost some weight. But, like, in real,

44:50

I'm, like, thinking to like, how do they do?

44:52

It's incredible how they did this. Right? Like -- Yeah. --

44:55

it's so subtle and, like, woven

44:57

into the episode. Yeah. It it blew me away. It

44:59

blew me away. I was like, this is

45:01

amazing. what they were able to accomplish. Yeah. It's so affecting,

45:03

like,

45:03

that idea that he's effectively in

45:06

hospice. Right? And, like, we don't

45:08

know that. We don't know what the fact that the audience

45:10

isn't sure what state he's

45:12

in, so we get to experience that as

45:14

Damon and Rayonier see it. And for

45:16

all their faults, Damon and Rayonieris

45:18

certainly love and care

45:20

for viseris. And you really it like,

45:22

it's very

45:24

impactful. just how difficult

45:26

it might be to watch someone you love

45:28

living in

45:28

that state of pain

45:31

and, like, confusion at

45:32

all times. And and I understand why

45:34

they are upset that it doesn't seem

45:36

like he has any attendance around him

45:39

or that, like, anybody seems to

45:41

be paying much attention to him and

45:43

that clearly

45:43

concerns them and again

45:46

sets them

45:48

once

45:48

again in opposition to Alison and her

45:52

father. Alright. We'll have more to talk about

45:53

with Rayonira, Damon,

45:56

and their of Osiris. But before we get to that, hey, Kim, let's do a

45:58

quick plug for some of the

46:00

stuff you're working on. If people love

46:02

our dialogue here on the cast of kings, where can they find more of

46:04

your work on

46:06

the internet? Yeah.

46:06

So I I write all about how's the dragon over on

46:09

insider dot com. You can find my

46:11

articles there, and I usually tweet most of

46:13

them too, so you can find

46:15

me on Twitter. at Kymar Renfro. Yeah.

46:17

And I want to point out

46:20

that the casa Kings will

46:22

be going

46:22

dark for a lot of the next

46:25

year after the show is over, but

46:27

I am continuing to podcast about television

46:29

over at the decoding TV podcast.

46:32

Currently, we're covering Shea Hulk and

46:34

or and the Rings of Power. And

46:36

there's gonna be more stuff we cover in the

46:38

future with some really exciting folks. I

46:40

hope you will check it out podcasts.

46:42

decoding TV dot

46:43

com. Alright. We're gonna

46:46

take a quick break. We'll be back with

46:48

more conversation about House of Dragon

46:50

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the

48:24

org. Renira has

48:25

a couple of scenes of

48:28

conversation with Viceris in this

48:30

episode. One

48:32

where she, you know, obviously

48:36

introduces the children to

48:38

him. But then later on when he's kinda

48:40

sleeping, she goes to his chambers not

48:42

very much security in king viceris' chambers from what I can know, although, I

48:44

guess, you know. I guess, like, they don't they don't

48:46

prevent the husband, the wife or the daughter

48:49

from seeing him. Right. She's

48:51

the heir. Yes. As far as

48:52

all the all the attendants

48:54

would

48:54

know. But

48:55

yeah.

48:57

And

48:58

she communicates to

49:01

him the

49:02

difficulty of

49:05

the prophecy and the weight of

49:07

the prophecy on her and how she feels like

49:09

she has to live the prophecy out. And at

49:11

that point in time, he barely even

49:13

knows what's going on is kind of my sense.

49:15

I think he clocks it, and then later

49:17

on, obviously, talking to who he

49:19

thinks is Raynira answers her question of, like, whether or

49:21

not he really believes in the prophecy. Yeah.

49:24

But, yeah, I'm curious, like,

49:26

what you thought of at

49:29

least this one scene

49:31

with Rainera and

49:32

Vouseras where

49:33

she kind a kind of of

49:36

says how difficult it is to be Reinera,

49:38

you know? Yeah. I thought it was a pretty solid

49:40

performance. And -- Yeah. -- here's the fourth

49:42

element. I've I've

49:44

been loving Emma Darcy's

49:46

interpretation of Rainera. I really liked

49:48

Milli Alcock as well, obviously, but

49:50

I think that Emma Darcy brings

49:53

a really good gravity

49:55

to many

49:56

of Rayonier's lines and

49:59

the way

49:59

that she seems to kind of

50:02

like vacillate Reniere seems

50:02

to sort of vacillate

50:03

between sadness and,

50:05

like, a little bit

50:06

of anger. And then just like that overwhelm like,

50:08

when she finally kinda, like, breaks down

50:12

in sobs, and says,

50:14

like, by

50:14

naming me Eric, you divided the

50:16

realm. Like, she seems very aware

50:19

of the fact that it's

50:22

only getting harder for her to defend her

50:24

children and

50:25

defend herself as the rightful

50:27

heir to the

50:30

iron throne. And it's one of those I think

50:32

that

50:32

this scene did a

50:34

really good job of also laying

50:36

the emotional groundwork for

50:40

the later throne

50:41

room scene because in that initial conversation, in the

50:42

in the dark and rainy room,

50:45

you don't get the impression

50:47

that Vocera's is very conscious

50:50

or, like, understands what

50:51

Rena is saying, but she says,

50:53

like, please

50:54

the what does

50:56

she say? If you wish me to bear it,

50:58

then defend

50:59

me and my children.

51:01

And, you know,

51:03

he can't respond. And so you're you

51:05

aren't sure if he's gonna be able to do think that that makes the impact of those

51:07

doors opening later in the throne room

51:10

even more

51:10

poignant because it's like, oh, he

51:14

heard and,

51:14

like, was was able to get

51:15

himself out of bed and really say what he wants

51:18

for a change and make this final

51:20

final stand as

51:22

a king. I think potentially in response to Rayonier's

51:24

plea

51:24

in this moment.

51:26

Because, obviously,

51:27

he can settle it

51:30

very easily. and just macronera up and everything's fine.

51:32

Yeah. So

51:33

the i'm okay. A

51:35

couple of brief scenes before we get

51:38

to the thrown

51:40

room scene with a big confrontation. We

51:43

do see a scene

51:45

in the

51:47

Courtyard where Luke

51:49

and Costco and they

51:51

kind of see Aiman fighting for

51:53

the first time. We see Aiman's

51:55

a badass. Mhmm. We see, sir

51:57

Kristen Cole. And again, III expressed this to you last

51:59

night on the

51:59

space, but watching this

52:02

episode of the show is almost like watching the

52:04

Twilight Zone.

52:06

or or like a black mirror episode or something where literally King

52:08

Vicerois is like almost actively

52:11

decomposing. And literally no one

52:13

or none of the

52:15

other characters have age. Obviously, the

52:17

the kids have changed actors, but, like, Ramiro looks the same. So

52:19

Kristen Cole looks the same.

52:22

Rainy's looks the same. Mhmm. And as

52:24

you communicated,

52:26

You know, in our space last night, you

52:29

did the math, Kim, of

52:31

how long

52:33

many years have elapsed since the very first episode

52:35

of House of Dragon? How many years

52:37

have

52:37

elapsed? It's been twenty

52:39

one years

52:40

since that piled episode.

52:42

in

52:43

Westeros. And, yeah, Kristen Cole does not look

52:44

like a man in his

52:46

late thirties, early

52:48

forties.

52:50

to

52:50

me right now? It it's it

52:53

is

52:53

bizarre. Like,

52:56

I am

52:57

I literally have a loss for

53:00

words. I literally have a loss for

53:02

words as though like, why they chose to head to

53:04

live this way? Like, why they chose to age

53:06

some people's

53:08

so heavily, and then other people seemingly not all, like, sprinkle

53:10

some freaking gray in his hair.

53:12

Haven't lose some hair. Haven't lose some

53:16

hair. Like, search Because they

53:17

did it with Lionel Strom. Yeah. Lionel

53:18

Strom. He got he went bold before

53:21

he died. And it's like,

53:23

you know,

53:23

yes. Okay. Maybe, sir Chris and Cole is

53:25

just, like, mega hot, and he's one of

53:27

those people that, like, looks good as entire life.

53:29

But, like, you gotta change it up a little

53:32

bit show. Okay? Yeah. I gotta

53:34

change it up a little bit. It's funny because I I've referenced

53:37

my

53:37

preseason, like, junket interviews a

53:39

couple of times, but

53:42

like, all the cast preseason. I hadn't seen any

53:44

of the episodes yet, so I was mostly talking to

53:46

the actors about, like, the general stuff

53:49

that I knew. And I knew that there were gonna be these time jumps.

53:51

Right? And I was, like, looking at them, kind of, trying to

53:54

clock how old all the characters were

53:56

supposed to

53:58

be. So I asked each set of actors, like,

53:59

can you tell me how old your character is at the start of

54:02

the show and then, like, whatever the time

54:04

jump is? And most of them are

54:06

pretty cagey about the time jump reference. They would

54:08

only tell me, like, how old they are at the start of the

54:10

show. But if anyone

54:11

wanted to tell you the show jumps

54:13

twenty one years between the first episode of the end.

54:15

Honestly, yeah.

54:16

And Fabian Frankl and

54:19

Matt Smith who play Kristen and

54:21

Damon were paired together. And

54:23

when I asked them, they both, like, in

54:25

unison were,

54:25

like, I couldn't tell you. Like,

54:27

they had they had no

54:29

idea how old they were supposed to be. They

54:31

were, like, ask ask Ryan Condell and Miguel Supposnik. And when I

54:33

did and, like and then Fabian Frankl and

54:36

Matt Smith were also joking, like, I don't know,

54:38

really, like, I think we're just kind of

54:40

ageless. And I was like, oh,

54:42

like, funny. And then, like, by now, I'm like, oh, you

54:44

were

54:44

serious. Like Yeah. They were serious.

54:46

You do not age. like, around

54:49

these episodes. It is

54:53

it is

54:54

so freaking weird,

54:56

Kim. Like, the just the approach that I think is just so

54:58

weird. Like, I I understand if

55:01

you wanna elapse tons of time

55:03

and, like, no one ages.

55:05

That's --

55:05

Right. -- you know,

55:08

like,

55:08

another example would be

55:10

like better call salt. Like, okay. All those

55:12

people in better colesol are theoretically younger than they were in breaking bad.

55:14

But in fact, in real life, they're, like, older and,

55:16

like, in their fifties, sixties, and seventies.

55:20

but

55:20

they're all aging at the same freaking rate. Like, it just

55:23

doesn't make sense to have some people

55:25

aged way faster than others.

55:27

You have Damon talking to

55:29

Viceris. They looked the same age

55:31

when the show began. They looked at

55:33

the same age. And then Viceris

55:35

looks like he's dead

55:37

in this episode. And Damon looks exactly the same age as

55:39

with the first episode. It's just like, what the

55:42

like,

55:42

what's that like

55:43

make Thank

55:45

you. Thank you for

55:48

coming to my net dog. I

55:50

hear you. I hear you. Yeah.

55:52

But you're just like, that that's a thing

55:54

that's a thing that is

55:55

helpful for the viewer to understand what

55:58

was going on in time too. And the show is

56:00

already, like, really confusing with all the time tips and

56:02

who's who and how many children right here

56:04

has had And it's like just throw us a freaking bone people. You know?

56:06

Yeah. Give us something to help us

56:08

orient ourselves. Okay. Sorry. They're doing they

56:11

they are they are

56:13

and we've I've mentioned this before in but I feel like

56:15

this is a creative

56:17

team

56:17

who's very aware of

56:20

the content

56:22

machine that exists around the show. And I think

56:24

that this is, like, one of those times where they

56:26

just relied on, like, you'll be able to

56:28

look it up after the episode airs exactly

56:32

how old these people are supposed to

56:33

be or whatever. I think in the behind the scenes It's like, hey, should we should

56:34

we gray up Kristen Kohl's hair and they're like,

56:37

no. No. No. People aren't gonna read Kim

56:39

Rainfros inside of pieces. they're

56:41

gonna know exactly when this is taking place. They're gonna

56:43

know that Fabian Frankel said that he

56:45

was ageless in an interviewed two months ago

56:47

to Well, I have to say

56:49

that freaking sucks. as a as

56:51

a form of TV storytelling. I'm just putting that out

56:54

there. Okay. And it'd be one thing if it

56:56

was like they're making some kind of

56:58

point about how some

56:58

characters donate. But it's like so Kristen Cole, really, like,

57:00

if it's like, oh, the Targaryens age slower or

57:03

something like that, but it's like

57:06

okay. Anyway,

57:06

I think and again, not to continue harping on this. And I'm not defending it.

57:08

I do think that it is

57:11

clunky. It just seems

57:13

like they were very focused on aging

57:16

the children a certain

57:18

amount of time, and they just like Literally,

57:20

that's where all they're focused. that's it.

57:23

Their their focus was on taking -- Yeah. --

57:25

multiple

57:25

generations of children characters into

57:28

adulthood and

57:30

leaving So sorry.

57:32

It's all been just stuck on my keyboard.

57:34

Mhmm. It's very rude

57:35

of you. You're supposed to be a third cohost,

57:37

and

57:37

now you're just messing everything up,

57:39

seladel. That's my cat

57:40

for anyone who's not watching this

57:42

on

57:42

YouTube. But,

57:43

yeah, they

57:44

seemed hyper focused on

57:48

communicating the children's growth and it seems like they

57:50

let the adult evolution fall

57:52

by the wayside. Howard Bauchner:

57:54

Right.

57:54

that that Ryan

57:57

Randoll

57:57

said in the after the episode that this the

57:59

this six year jump was intended

58:02

to bring most of

58:04

Raynira and Alison's children into

58:06

the seventeen to twenty one year old

58:08

range,

58:08

which is a young adult in

58:10

all societies basically. Mhmm. Mhmm.

58:13

Yeah.

58:13

Apparently, that's where one hundred percent of

58:15

the focus went. Anyway, thank

58:17

you for listening to my rant

58:19

on that, and You

58:21

know, what what what would a cast of kings be without a good David Chen rant is

58:23

the question? Nothing at all. Nothing. Nothing at

58:25

all. Nothing at all. Nothing.

58:28

wouldn't

58:28

exist. Okay. There's a scene with Rainy's Rainy

58:31

and Rainyira. Basically,

58:35

Is that

58:35

right? Yeah. You nailed it. Okay.

58:38

Yes. In the God's

58:40

word. Okay.

58:43

Rainy's King viceris'

58:44

cousin, the woman, the queen that never was?

58:47

Yes.

58:48

Lord Corless' wife.

58:51

Right?

58:51

Raynira comes and is basically like,

58:53

hey, Raynys, can you back me up?

58:56

BT Dubs, I'm willing to

58:58

betrothed my children to yours. We can further strengthen

59:00

our alliance if you do that. Rainyce's and and also

59:02

BT Dubs part two didn't kill

59:04

your son even though you think I

59:06

did. What do you say?

59:08

And Rainyce's noncommittal

59:10

in in a really smart

59:13

way. Right? Mhmm.

59:15

Also, Radiohead brings

59:18

daughter,

59:18

Reina, to kind of

59:20

soft Rhaenice is a little bit

59:22

grand

59:23

Oh, granddaughter. Yes. Yes.

59:26

granddaughter. Yeah.

59:27

Yeah. Ray

59:29

Rayna is the

59:31

oldest daughter

59:32

of Elizabeth Lena

59:33

and Damon. And

59:36

Lena was Rainey's daughter. Right. Ayla

59:38

and Reina

59:38

are

59:39

Reina's granddaughters. Right. So,

59:40

Bayla, he's they're they're Damon

59:43

and they're Damon's children,

59:46

basically, Yes. And one of Damon's children

59:48

went off to be awarded at Driftmark,

59:50

and the other one stayed with

59:52

Rayna and Raynira and Damon

59:56

and she brought her she brought her to kinda be like, hey, hey, it's

59:58

a kid you haven't seen in a while. Like -- Yeah.

1:00:00

-- be happy for me, you know, like, that kind

1:00:04

of thing. Yeah. Anyway, just a just a interesting

1:00:06

Prelude, nice set up for Rainy's and

1:00:08

what would heading

1:00:10

into the

1:00:12

final

1:00:12

episode, which also, like,

1:00:14

speaking of

1:00:15

succession, strong gerry vibes

1:00:18

coming out of -- Oh. -- rainies, I would

1:00:20

say. because she's saying, like

1:00:22

yeah. Like, let's I'll play the

1:00:25

field depending on what happens. Yeah. Keeps her cards

1:00:27

close to the chest, but it's still

1:00:29

being very Yeah. I love the parallel between

1:00:31

this marriage offer and the one

1:00:34

that Raynira made to Alison a few

1:00:36

episodes back where she was, like, trying

1:00:38

to sort of give

1:00:40

the olive branch and be like, let's marry our

1:00:42

children. Everything will be stronger from there

1:00:44

on. That got rejected in the small council room

1:00:46

in a very sort of, like, public embarrassing

1:00:48

way for rain era and the fact

1:00:51

that this proposal comes in the God's would,

1:00:53

like, in front of the Weirwood tree, a

1:00:55

much quieter, like, intimate thing. and

1:00:57

I love that Rainy's calls around, says that's

1:00:59

a generous offer

1:01:00

or maybe a desperate

1:01:02

one. And Rainyiro

1:01:02

was very quick to be like, what

1:01:04

does it matter? because I think that that was true back

1:01:06

when she offered the same thing to Alison. Even

1:01:08

if she was only offering that because she

1:01:11

felt kind of backed into a corner doesn't

1:01:13

make it a bad offer. honestly,

1:01:16

by marrying Bayla

1:01:18

and Reina

1:01:19

to

1:01:21

jason luke Jason Luke.

1:01:22

Reinear

1:01:23

is effectively kind of solving the problem that Raymond has of

1:01:25

saying, like, my blood needs to

1:01:27

inherit this castle

1:01:30

or whatever. Rainier is

1:01:31

basically saying, like, yeah, great. Your

1:01:33

blood can. Bayla and Reyna are

1:01:36

definitely Elena's children. Nobody

1:01:38

has ever contested that. And

1:01:40

by putting them in kind

1:01:42

of like co power with Jason Luke,

1:01:44

it it does kind of placate

1:01:46

the valerian issue of like

1:01:48

we don't have any blood. Well, now their children certainly have

1:01:50

valerian

1:01:51

blood and continue that down in the line

1:01:53

of driftmark. As opposed to snuffing

1:01:55

it out entirely, which

1:01:57

I get is a valid concern of

1:01:59

payments. Yeah.

1:02:01

Well, then

1:02:03

it's the throne room. the big confrontation,

1:02:05

we get, like, a lot of different angles of the throne room too,

1:02:07

like, an above angle. We get to see it. It's

1:02:09

a full glory, and that's pretty

1:02:12

cool. Yeah. And

1:02:14

they all fill in and they have this

1:02:16

kind of trial, I guess. I don't I don't

1:02:18

know what the technical legal term is for it in

1:02:20

Westeros, but They kept calling it

1:02:22

petitions.

1:02:23

Yeah. Right? Potitions for

1:02:26

succession matters or whatever.

1:02:28

Yeah. Auto

1:02:30

Hi

1:02:30

Tower sits on the throne in viserys instead. And here

1:02:33

is Vaiman's case. and here's vehemence

1:02:35

case And

1:02:38

Vaiman explains his

1:02:41

case, which is

1:02:43

that he wants somebody from

1:02:45

his house to sit on

1:02:47

the Driftmark throne. Mhmm.

1:02:48

And the

1:02:49

implication is that that

1:02:51

Rayonier's

1:02:52

children are not

1:02:53

of Corillis' line

1:02:56

of people.

1:02:58

And, Reneera

1:02:58

is really unhappy

1:03:00

with his implication and she's about

1:03:02

to object to it when all

1:03:04

of a sudden the throne room doors swing open

1:03:07

And in a of parallel scene from episode five of the

1:03:10

show, instead of Alison

1:03:12

High Tower interrupting Vocera's, taking

1:03:15

care of something with a lot of

1:03:17

succession. It's the other way around. King

1:03:19

Viceris, interrupting the high towers, trying

1:03:22

to impose their will on the people.

1:03:23

And

1:03:24

Viceroy

1:03:26

comes in, he's got

1:03:26

a gold mask to cover the part of his face

1:03:29

that's, you know, he's missing an eye

1:03:32

and and he slowly walks

1:03:34

to the throne room and it's a as as as to

1:03:36

the throne. It's a really effective scene. It takes place almost

1:03:38

in real time as far as I can tell. where

1:03:40

you really feel the weight of how much time and effort it takes

1:03:42

him to get to the throat. And

1:03:48

Yeah. There's a

1:03:50

few

1:03:50

sort of moving parts of

1:03:52

this. Right? You see everyone's reactions to

1:03:54

him. Allison's obviously is really disappointed. She's

1:03:57

like, oh, viseris, messing with my plans

1:03:59

yet again, you know, which is pretty

1:04:01

fun to see. And then, of course,

1:04:03

at the end, Damon comes and and

1:04:06

helps

1:04:06

him up. Yeah. I was very

1:04:08

moved by that because you do

1:04:10

get a sense of, hey, Damon's a different person

1:04:12

now. Yeah. I do still

1:04:15

wish that we had gotten more of

1:04:17

their relationship in the

1:04:19

intervening decades. Okay. You know? It

1:04:21

would've been nice to see, like,

1:04:23

Like, you can imagine if that came at the end of

1:04:25

season two of the show, like, how much

1:04:28

more it would mean to you

1:04:30

than that I feel like we've really rushed to

1:04:32

the Damon Viceroy's

1:04:34

relationship with the season. But despite

1:04:36

that concern, it's a really

1:04:38

powerful moment because, like, Damon has

1:04:40

changed. You see how far he has come from the

1:04:42

first episode. He the change

1:04:44

happened extremely quickly and rapidly over the

1:04:46

course of every few episodes, but you do see they

1:04:48

used to fight each other, they used to hate

1:04:50

each other, And now at the end of

1:04:52

Viceroys' life, Damon's still showing up for Viceroys -- Yeah. -- in a really powerful, meaningful

1:04:54

way in front of everyone. Yeah.

1:04:58

Anyway, Anyhow The

1:04:59

fact that vicar is will only accept help. Yeah. Like

1:05:01

he's too proud to

1:05:02

take help from a king's guard even though

1:05:04

the king's guard are there just to

1:05:07

to protect him. But he has

1:05:09

this pride that only Damon can kind

1:05:11

of

1:05:11

get under when it comes

1:05:12

to just showing him, like, a moment

1:05:15

of support. The fact that Damon

1:05:16

is the one who picks up the crown, which I just I

1:05:18

just this morning, I was reading an entertainment weekly article. Apparently, that

1:05:21

was like a a little mishap that

1:05:23

happened while filming. The crown

1:05:26

accidentally fell off of Patty Consveen's face, and Matt Smith just picked it

1:05:28

up, and then they decided to, like, keep that

1:05:30

as the and I was, like,

1:05:33

Beautiful. Beautiful

1:05:34

improvisation of, like, the

1:05:36

symbolism of Damon, clearly no

1:05:38

longer being the type of person who

1:05:40

is trying to take this Erus'

1:05:42

crown, but in instead is happy to give him a dignified

1:05:45

final seat on the iron

1:05:46

throne. Yeah. I thought it was

1:05:49

beautiful. Yeah. And that's

1:05:52

that's how you know you're dealing with professional actors. They character

1:05:54

even when, you know, something like that happens.

1:05:56

But Yeah.

1:05:59

Well, speaking of

1:06:00

of Viceris,

1:06:02

he sits on the throne and he's basically

1:06:04

says, per my email.

1:06:06

I must

1:06:08

admit my confusion. Yes.

1:06:10

He's like, I don't understand why

1:06:12

we're even hearing. The the top the matter has

1:06:14

been settled. Why we're here? Of course, the

1:06:16

reason why we're here is because The

1:06:18

matter has been settled in a way that is unsatisfactory to

1:06:22

Vamend who is in the courtroom presenting the

1:06:24

case. Mhmm.

1:06:26

And

1:06:26

and

1:06:29

Vamend.

1:06:30

So so at that point, viseris

1:06:32

is like, alright, fine. The

1:06:35

one person whose opinion I care about

1:06:37

is Reneas. And at that point,

1:06:40

Reneas sees where the tide is turning and

1:06:42

where it's heading and where the wind

1:06:44

is blowing, and she comes in and basically joins Reneera's side.

1:06:46

Right? She's like, yeah, actually, why

1:06:48

are we here? And also, my children are

1:06:50

marrying Reneera's children, and the matter

1:06:52

is settled. You know?

1:06:54

And at that point, Raymond

1:06:56

goes off and he continues

1:06:58

to say a series of escalating

1:07:00

things that as I'm watching, I'm like,

1:07:02

this is gonna be impossible for you to take back,

1:07:04

sir. You know, like -- Mhmm. -- and it's it's

1:07:07

a really impressive performance.

1:07:10

by the actor Yeah. show. Yeah. A

1:07:13

lot of

1:07:13

righteousness. Will Johnson, I

1:07:16

believe, is the name

1:07:17

of the

1:07:20

actor. Yeah. Who plays who plays Eamon? And, yeah,

1:07:22

he and eventually, like, calls Rainier

1:07:24

a a horror, which is just, like,

1:07:27

that you're done then. You can't like,

1:07:30

you you could have gotten

1:07:32

out of this unscathed, you know?

1:07:34

Yeah. But

1:07:36

he he had to he had to do it. Now, whether or

1:07:38

not it will make an impact I think

1:07:40

I mean, I think it clearly did make an

1:07:44

impact. Yeah. His his debt, like, coming out like that and then

1:07:46

getting killed for it, getting struck down for

1:07:48

it. They can't think he made an impact

1:07:50

on Rainy's and also probably Allison

1:07:53

Tide Tower. Right? Yeah. And so maybe there's, like,

1:07:55

that was part of the calculation was, like, I'd

1:07:58

rather die speaking the

1:08:00

truth speaking the truth then than

1:08:02

and and having people know what I

1:08:04

think about it, then then live

1:08:06

in fear of of sneaking the truth,

1:08:08

you know. But it it's an

1:08:10

incredible sequence. And then, obviously, the

1:08:12

king says he's gonna take his tongue out and then

1:08:14

Damon just cuts his head off. Does does

1:08:16

a does a half

1:08:18

cuts

1:08:18

off half of his head and then it falls to the ground and

1:08:20

you see his tongue still in his head, and then it's

1:08:22

like he can keep his tongue and it's like,

1:08:25

very cute. Very cute. I was like, how many times have

1:08:27

you practice cutting people's heads off so that their tongue

1:08:29

is still intact. Yes. He

1:08:31

knows exactly the the

1:08:34

orbital plane on which to it's

1:08:37

a it's a it's a shocking

1:08:39

moment. It's classic Game

1:08:41

of Thrones stuff. I literally

1:08:43

-- Yeah. -- I literally was

1:08:45

like, because I like, in the books, I

1:08:47

put the quote here in

1:08:49

the inspired blood, the way that this

1:08:51

unfolds is much more just like just sort of says like

1:08:53

Feamon was protesting once again so

1:08:55

that Rayonier's sons were bastards and

1:08:57

then it says, quote, the princess

1:09:00

was not slow in

1:09:02

answering this charge, she dispatched Prince Damon to seize Sarveyman, had his head and fed

1:09:04

his carcass to

1:09:07

her dragon's cyrax. So

1:09:11

the

1:09:11

fact that the they they changed this, so

1:09:13

that it happens

1:09:14

so quickly. It's not

1:09:16

something that, like,

1:09:18

Raynira or Voceris actually

1:09:20

order. It's just something that

1:09:22

Damon sort of does impulsively to defend his step sons and his

1:09:24

wife in the

1:09:25

room, as well as

1:09:28

Vocera's, like, Vamend

1:09:30

is being outright. Like, what he's

1:09:33

he's telling Vocera that he broke laws and

1:09:35

all of this stuff

1:09:36

by naming rainier air. He

1:09:38

was banging out of order. Yeah. It was really I was just

1:09:40

like, wow. Every three seconds, Raymond

1:09:42

was saying something I was like, 000

1:09:47

my gosh, she said that. And and then Damon

1:09:49

kills my favorite

1:09:50

part was when Damon kills him. And

1:09:52

then all the kings go to, like, hey,

1:09:54

you can't kill someone who's like, okay. Okay. I

1:09:56

I take it back. I think you're

1:09:58

here's a story. Don't worry. I'm not gonna

1:10:01

kill anyone else, you know, like it's

1:10:03

like, okay. I don't think they should check maybe they should check weapons at the door

1:10:05

for these petitions, you know. Yeah. They

1:10:07

need a

1:10:07

TSA and

1:10:09

in Kings Landing? Yeah.

1:10:11

Courtroom metal detector. Courtroom metal detector.

1:10:13

I loved Eamon's reaction

1:10:15

to this too. Like, they

1:10:18

kind of cut to Eamon when I given the smirk and it's he's sort of like, oh, hello,

1:10:22

on goal.

1:10:24

Damon. We might have a similar inclusion. Like like your

1:10:26

style, like your style, like your style. And,

1:10:29

yeah, we have

1:10:32

seen Damon

1:10:33

be a

1:10:34

lot more chill in this era of life, but has bit

1:10:36

of that

1:10:38

fight in him. So

1:10:41

and the impulsiveness in him. So Yeah. And the

1:10:43

only thing that kinda saved Damon in the scene was the

1:10:45

king expressing his

1:10:46

desire to remove that guy's thought. Like,

1:10:51

If the king hadn't said that, then Damon probably would have been more out of order.

1:10:53

But instead the argument could be made that

1:10:55

he was enacting

1:10:56

the will of the king,

1:10:58

you know. Yeah. So, albeit just more rapidly

1:11:00

than normal order. Yeah.

1:11:02

And more intensely, because he said, I

1:11:04

want the guy's tongue. He didn't want his -- Right. --

1:11:07

top half of his head. So No.

1:11:08

So then we get this

1:11:11

whole sequence with

1:11:14

Vaiman's body being I

1:11:17

guess, bombed or whatever

1:11:19

by the Silent

1:11:21

Sisters. Yeah. And

1:11:23

master

1:11:23

Orwell says, It

1:11:25

is ill luck to look upon death. And Rainey says the stranger has visited

1:11:27

me more times than I can count. Interesting way to refer

1:11:29

to death as the stranger.

1:11:32

I didn't has

1:11:35

that happened in Game of Thrones before? Yeah. So

1:11:36

the Stranger is one of the gods

1:11:38

of the faith of the seven.

1:11:41

Mhmm. So there's, like, the mother, the

1:11:43

father. etcetera. The stranger is supposed to be

1:11:45

the sort of, like,

1:11:47

spooky

1:11:47

death focused one.

1:11:48

guess focused one

1:11:51

Like, he's the god

1:11:51

that not very many people like to worship or

1:11:53

talk

1:11:53

about very often within Westeros

1:11:56

in the same way that

1:11:58

they say, like, the mother will grace my cause or I think

1:11:59

referred earlier to, like,

1:12:01

the father is just

1:12:04

and approves of my

1:12:06

methods here type of

1:12:08

thing. Yeah. Beautiful scene, but I was just like, I

1:12:10

wonder what like, why they put that here? I guess just to kind

1:12:12

of show that his death has

1:12:14

an impact on Rainey's, you know,

1:12:18

I

1:12:18

have a theory, but

1:12:19

I don't think I could talk about

1:12:21

it in detail until next week. Okay.

1:12:23

But if you were wondering

1:12:25

if there's a reason why they had

1:12:27

that scene in there, I think I

1:12:29

have an answer. Okay. Maybe, you

1:12:30

know, Kim, here's what my request.

1:12:31

Right? Send it

1:12:34

to me in an email. Okay. And then on next week's episode, we'll

1:12:36

open the email. We'll see if

1:12:38

you're right. How about that? Okay.

1:12:40

Fun.

1:12:41

i'm

1:12:42

there's one more big confrontation in this episode,

1:12:44

but we're gonna take a quick break and we'll be

1:12:46

back in a moment to talk about the final scenes

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1:14:22

Alright, Kim. Let's talk about the

1:14:24

final sequence in this episode, which takes place

1:14:26

with the whole family. King Viceris is like,

1:14:28

hey, the whole the whole families here.

1:14:31

I

1:14:31

wanna dine with them.

1:14:33

Because we know, and this has been well

1:14:34

set up in previous episodes, Viceris loves the idea of family.

1:14:37

You know, he's done

1:14:39

a poor job of setting

1:14:42

them up for success and love between them and he seems to be oblivious to the major

1:14:48

enmity and

1:14:49

sort of

1:14:51

of It'll it'll still go on

1:14:53

between them, you know. But but he still

1:14:55

loves the idea. And

1:14:57

so he comes into the the dining

1:14:59

room, the dining hall. And

1:15:02

there's a a

1:15:04

series of awkward

1:15:07

interactions in suit. You

1:15:08

can tell the kids,

1:15:10

like, really still

1:15:11

hate each other, egg

1:15:15

on in particular seems to be needling Chase all

1:15:17

night. You know, they're they're supposed to be celebrating their betrothel, but he's like,

1:15:19

you know, questioning his masculinity and

1:15:22

his manhood the whole night pretty

1:15:24

much. But there is

1:15:26

a

1:15:26

big speech that Vocera makes in at the

1:15:27

dinner scene

1:15:30

and, you

1:15:32

know, he takes off his

1:15:34

mask. He's like, I want you to

1:15:36

see me as I am. And I

1:15:37

think that, you know, there's

1:15:39

several reasons for that, but

1:15:40

I think

1:15:42

he wants them to understand how high stakes it is that all these people get

1:15:44

along. Because if

1:15:47

they are torn apart, then

1:15:50

the House of of Hungarian will

1:15:53

not stand, the kingdom will suffer, and they

1:15:55

need to get along because he's

1:15:57

not gonna be around for much

1:15:59

longer. I think is kind of what he's trying to communicate. When he takes off a

1:16:01

mask, it's very similar to, like, two face in

1:16:03

the dark night. Like, you you see,

1:16:05

like, the eye socket and you see,

1:16:07

you know, like, his musculature underneath

1:16:09

his skin. Not really a life someone like that would have gone

1:16:12

septic long ago,

1:16:15

but, you know, We're living with

1:16:17

Westeros rules. And so he is still able to talk. It's horrible. It's an

1:16:20

incredible effect.

1:16:24

It's horrifying. Yeah. But yeah. And

1:16:25

I'm curious if you have any thoughts on

1:16:27

Vocera's speech and and this whole

1:16:31

sequence

1:16:31

game. Yeah. I mean, the whole dinner I thought was fascinating because

1:16:34

everybody seems to

1:16:37

kind of vacillate

1:16:40

sincerity and foe politeness for the sake of

1:16:42

Vocera's and, like, trying to clock, like, okay, are they doing

1:16:44

this to put on a little

1:16:46

bit of a show for Vocera's

1:16:48

or is there actually some

1:16:50

genuine healing happening here at this dinner table? It's

1:16:54

just so much tragedy.

1:16:56

wrapped up in one single family dinner, which

1:16:58

I think is very, very thrones of them to to sort of

1:17:00

just let this scene linger and go

1:17:02

through all the phases of, like, awkwardness,

1:17:07

a little bit of sincerity,

1:17:09

and pleading from Vocera sent into, like,

1:17:11

let's have some music, and there's

1:17:13

oh, everybody's dancing and nice and, like, the there's sort

1:17:15

of that, like, slow mo zoom in of, like, Vocera's actually getting to

1:17:17

see his

1:17:18

whole family together. And I was,

1:17:20

like,

1:17:22

That's that's

1:17:23

nice even if it's not gonna

1:17:26

last.

1:17:26

It's nice for this thirty seconds.

1:17:28

To make

1:17:29

things extremely real

1:17:31

for a moment, it reminded me

1:17:33

in some ways of my

1:17:35

many many years

1:17:37

ago, my grandmother passed

1:17:39

away. Mhmm. And

1:17:41

when my mom heard that she was, like, in really bad shape, she took both me and my brother California

1:17:44

see my

1:17:47

grandmother one last time. Mhmm. And

1:17:49

we went to the hospital and saw my grandmother, and she was

1:17:52

in, you know, not a great state. She

1:17:54

she barely but she knew we were

1:17:56

there. And

1:17:59

then she passed literally,

1:18:02

like, days after we

1:18:04

arrived. Yeah.

1:18:06

And I do get the sense that she was kind

1:18:08

of like and people were saying to me at

1:18:10

the time, like, she she was, like, holding

1:18:13

on until, like, she saw my mom and her

1:18:15

grandchildren, like, one more time -- Yeah. -- in the

1:18:17

hospital. And and I do think there's this idea

1:18:19

of, like, in a remind me of this scene where,

1:18:21

like, Vicero's, I think, was, like, holding you know,

1:18:23

he was clearly on his way out, but he was holding on until he was

1:18:25

able to, like, experience this whole thing to his family, and then he kind of, like,

1:18:27

like like that he

1:18:30

he felt he had done what he had to do, seen

1:18:32

what he had to see, and he,

1:18:34

like, let go. Yeah. It's it's it's

1:18:38

always fascinating me the idea that, like, people

1:18:40

can kind of that they

1:18:42

have some will in terms

1:18:45

of how they leave, you know, how

1:18:47

they pass away. Yeah. So anyway Yeah.

1:18:49

It's I I It's just

1:18:52

like a clock that, like, you know,

1:18:54

once it gets to zero, you're dead. It's like people will have some say in the matter and that's

1:18:56

always fascinating to

1:18:59

me. So Yeah.

1:19:01

I had a similar situation last summer.

1:19:03

My aunt was in hospice, and a lot of the family flew from, like, different parts

1:19:05

of the country to to see

1:19:07

her. And then they

1:19:11

had been there for, like, five days, and they finally had to, like, two

1:19:13

of my

1:19:14

ants two of my other ants had to leave

1:19:16

that night. And so, like, we were

1:19:18

kind of, like, altogether this one last time.

1:19:21

and then people, like, had to fly

1:19:23

home stuff aunt away And somehow

1:19:24

she had

1:19:27

known that, like,

1:19:29

okay,

1:19:29

all the family isn't here anymore or, like, we had all that time together and now it's

1:19:31

time to go. So, yeah, I totally know

1:19:34

what you're talking about in terms of that,

1:19:36

like, you're talking about in terms of

1:19:38

that like there does sometimes seem to

1:19:39

be a added

1:19:43

level

1:19:43

of, like,

1:19:46

awareness,

1:19:46

I think, of the

1:19:48

final moments of life sometimes among

1:19:50

family.

1:19:50

It's very touching. And that

1:19:52

this this episode was really

1:19:55

emotional. in in many different moments from the throne

1:19:57

scene to the dinner scene to

1:19:59

then his

1:19:59

final

1:20:01

his final conversation with Alison.

1:20:03

I

1:20:03

mean, let's

1:20:04

go back to the

1:20:06

scene. I know those, you know,

1:20:08

let's

1:20:10

I think

1:20:11

that so some

1:20:13

of the storytelling in this

1:20:16

episode is is pretty

1:20:18

rough specifically around Reneer and I

1:20:20

think we are meant to believe that, like, Veneer

1:20:22

and Alison are, like, starting to patch things up and that

1:20:24

Alison is starting

1:20:27

to accept things and they have this very meaningful conversation when

1:20:29

Kingfisher's is not looking. You know, and Alison's like, hey, it would be

1:20:32

great. I'm so sorry that you're leaving. It

1:20:34

would be great if you hung out a

1:20:36

little more. I think we're supposed

1:20:38

to interpret that as actually genuine. Then and then, of course, it's all completely undone. But was

1:20:40

whacky, you could sit calm,

1:20:42

like, misunderstanding at the end. when

1:20:46

Alison thinks that Vocera

1:20:48

is talking about a different

1:20:51

egg on. Yeah. And

1:20:53

That's that's rough in my opinion. Like, it's it's rough that it becomes a

1:20:55

it's because of a misunderstanding. And I I think that I

1:20:58

don't know that the show really gives us

1:21:00

enough i don't know that to show really gives

1:21:02

us enough for us to feel like

1:21:04

Reneera and Alison would have patched things up. You

1:21:06

know? I I think I think it's very

1:21:09

clearly meant to be a rug people, like, oh,

1:21:11

Veneer and Allison are getting along again. And

1:21:13

maybe Allison I could see

1:21:15

Allison's grudgingly accepting

1:21:17

the new order. But, like, we see a lot of, like,

1:21:20

warmth towards Rainyera from Allison

1:21:22

that I'm like, I'm where

1:21:24

that seems kind of random where that's

1:21:26

coming from. Oh, it's so that the show runners can, like, take it away from us

1:21:28

at the very end of the show.

1:21:31

Yeah. That's my assessment, but you did a

1:21:33

great job of pointing out during our Twitter

1:21:35

space last night that what the

1:21:37

show has done a good job of

1:21:39

setting up is that there is a lot of bitterness from Allison. And turning like,

1:21:42

her hearing Vocera's prophecy misapplied

1:21:47

and then presumably

1:21:50

turning against Reneera afterwards.

1:21:53

is well set up. Like, that that is not you know, that is well set up. There's tons

1:21:55

of material the show has given us for Right. It's

1:21:58

this kind of, like,

1:22:00

Why are they getting along? Why why is, like, Allison so nice all

1:22:02

of a sudden? That parts, I think, is a little bit poorly set up. What do you think did? I think

1:22:05

another scene I would point to

1:22:07

in this episode is the

1:22:10

second small council room scene where

1:22:13

it's just Alison, Vamed,

1:22:15

and Otto talking, like,

1:22:16

before the petitions happen?

1:22:18

No. And

1:22:19

Alison does express in private in that

1:22:21

situation. She calls it like uneasiness.

1:22:23

Like, you kind of get

1:22:25

the sense that she is starting

1:22:27

that bit or not she's doing the correct

1:22:30

thing by deciding to backvame

1:22:32

entirely and, like, once

1:22:34

again, reignite this whole conversation

1:22:36

about

1:22:36

about the

1:22:37

valerian children? a k, the strongs.

1:22:40

So,

1:22:40

yeah, by the time

1:22:42

we got to

1:22:43

this dinner scene, Like,

1:22:46

I wrote in my notes at the very end when, like,

1:22:48

Alison says Reenerish wants to say, I just wrote

1:22:50

weird vibe. Does she mean it? Because

1:22:53

I wasn't sure. I was like,

1:22:55

I don't know if this is her strategizing or if she's genuinely coming around because

1:23:00

Yeah. Sorry. Go finish

1:23:02

finish your thing. I apologize. Didn't mean to interrupt. Go ahead. No. I just yeah. I I wasn't sure whether or

1:23:06

not to trust

1:23:08

it. And then the scene

1:23:10

with PERSERIS, I was like, okay, once again, we have Allison in private, and she

1:23:12

does seem to be acting

1:23:14

pretty tenderly and caring toward PERSERIS.

1:23:18

And it felt to me

1:23:20

like it was

1:23:21

like the episode took us through

1:23:23

a little bit of a

1:23:25

roller coaster of like, Allicent has

1:23:27

been on this mission and been

1:23:29

very intent and confident

1:23:31

in her feeling that

1:23:33

what Rayonier is doing is

1:23:36

not okay. and

1:23:37

yet she's just maybe starting to doubt whether or not

1:23:39

her insisting

1:23:39

on that is the right

1:23:43

thing to do. Viceris

1:23:44

makes a plea for

1:23:47

everybody on again.

1:23:48

on my computer again

1:23:51

Sorry. But

1:23:53

why I think

1:23:54

yeah. It's like so by

1:23:57

Vocera is having

1:23:57

this, you know, as you

1:23:59

said, sitcom esque miscommunication

1:24:02

with her about Aegon. It's almost like that was the I think that they want us to

1:24:04

believe that that

1:24:05

was the

1:24:06

only piece of evidence Allison

1:24:10

needed to believe that everything she's been

1:24:12

doing for the last twenty years was

1:24:14

in fact correct and that any

1:24:16

doubts that she had about, like, whether

1:24:18

or not it was okay or whether the ends justify the means in

1:24:21

this situation. This is now, like, this is

1:24:23

going to be her north

1:24:25

star of, like, oh, yes. I was correct this

1:24:27

whole time. It was just those silly

1:24:29

Targaryens who had me doubting myself, but

1:24:32

like now

1:24:33

I'm back on the cause of

1:24:35

You know?

1:24:35

But I I agree

1:24:36

that I was watching I was

1:24:38

watching that miscommunication unfold with Alison

1:24:40

and Vocera's and being, like, oh,

1:24:42

my god. We're really gonna, like,

1:24:45

mostly

1:24:45

hinge like this incredible

1:24:48

-- What

1:24:49

-- whatever comes

1:24:51

next. Whatever comes next. we're

1:24:54

gonna

1:24:54

mostly hinge this this

1:24:56

future conflict on a simple

1:24:58

-- Misunderstanding. -- misunderstanding naming.

1:25:00

fanning miss hundred and

1:25:01

And it's like and it also

1:25:04

presupposes that Viceris has literally

1:25:05

never

1:25:06

talked about this with anyone

1:25:08

but Raynira and that Raynira wouldn't

1:25:10

ever possibly communicate that to Allison, either. Like,

1:25:13

it's a lot of secret keeping

1:25:15

that in a world where secrets

1:25:17

are seem very hard to

1:25:19

keep, I'm like, really,

1:25:20

we're now gonna have two

1:25:22

people who independently think that they are like the sole protectors of this prophecy,

1:25:26

fact whatever fact whatever Yeah. Yeah.

1:25:28

It was a little frustrating. I was

1:25:30

like, you can do that

1:25:33

once in a show. we already got it

1:25:35

with the Surch Kristen thing. Right? We talked about this yesterday

1:25:37

in, like, the Twitter space is too. And

1:25:39

I was like,

1:25:41

two is a little much for a

1:25:43

lot of pivotal plot points to hinge on

1:25:45

a simple -- Yeah. --

1:25:46

one word, miss Greenleaf.

1:25:48

Hopefully, it'll teach them to

1:25:50

not name all their kids the same in the future. You know?

1:25:52

But, yeah, I think

1:25:54

that

1:25:55

that's the rough

1:25:57

part is the idea of,

1:25:59

like, here's the thing that really threw me off is

1:26:02

Alison's emotions following the throne

1:26:04

room scene

1:26:06

are not recognizable to me.

1:26:07

as somebody who would Allison's situation. Yeah. If if I

1:26:10

was Allison and

1:26:10

I had this whole plan

1:26:14

to,

1:26:14

like, finally exposed this person who I've hated

1:26:17

for, like, ten years.

1:26:19

And and, like, figure out

1:26:21

a way to, like, restore justice to

1:26:23

its place. And then my old husband who I

1:26:25

didn't really like that much came in at

1:26:27

the last minute

1:26:29

and stopped it. My next reaction would

1:26:32

not be, oh, maybe he is right. I should

1:26:34

try to patch things up with Rainy around. I'd

1:26:36

be freaking furious. You

1:26:38

know, that's me. and

1:26:39

maybe Allison is not as,

1:26:41

I don't know, emotional as

1:26:42

me, but

1:26:43