0:00

Seattle in the 90s, a tidal wave of

0:02

iconic music roars out of this sleepy city

0:04

and launches a pop culture revolution. Here's

0:07

a story you haven't heard. Let

0:09

the Kids Dance is a new podcast about the

0:11

rise and fall of Seattle's teen dance ordinance. The

0:14

law that made it illegal for young people to go

0:16

to concerts. Listen to Let

0:18

the Kids Dance from KUOW and the NPR

0:20

Network. This

0:23

is a deeper listen from KEXP, the

0:25

show where we talk with musicians about

0:27

the thoughts and personal experiences that shape

0:29

their music. I'm Emily Fox. And

0:32

today I want to share a conversation with

0:34

Gary Clark Jr. He's

0:38

a four-time Grammy award winner known for his

0:40

contemporary take on the blues. The

0:43

title track off his previous record, released

0:45

in 2020, called This Land, won two

0:47

Grammys. That track was inspired by

0:49

a neighbor of his in Texas who asked who was

0:51

the owner of Clark's home. The

0:53

neighbor didn't believe it was a black man who owned

0:56

the home and insisted to meet the real owner. This

1:00

is where I go for Gary

1:09

Clark Jr. has just released a new record called

1:11

JPGraw. The record

1:14

features collaborations with George Clinton. Valerie

1:24

June and

1:30

a song Stevie Wonder pitched to him. The

1:41

record also explores genres beyond the

1:43

regular blues and rock. It includes

1:46

a jazzy croony lounge ballad. A

1:52

little bit of pop. And

2:00

In hip hop into you can. Check.

2:05

Out. And

2:07

like this land save her bra doesn't

2:09

shy away. From issues I. Thought

2:11

of with Gary Clark Jr. to talk about

2:13

the songs and this record that address mental

2:16

health, substance use, and race. First

2:18

off, I understand. This album was

2:20

written tennis starting around the pandemic those

2:22

also happening when protests were happening you

2:24

know, for the murder of George Floyd

2:27

And you have this verse on the

2:29

opening track on this album talking about

2:31

how regardless of who is doing the

2:33

shooting, we gotta. Stop viewing yourself. More

2:45

about the reviewing your head when

2:47

you wrote this song and also

2:49

how you reflect back on some

2:51

of those words and the song.

2:53

Know a few years out from from when

2:56

everything was happening. You know, ends in twenty.

2:58

Twenty when we've had this new

3:00

national conversation around race. Riot.

3:04

While you know that that that was. All.

3:08

That was founded the towers the

3:10

bigness into. Some of the

3:12

lyrics. But. As time went on

3:14

you know the last record was this land and I

3:16

was I were what do we were going to get

3:18

on that. An arm. Or

3:22

though. And dressing room with. Carlos.

3:24

Santana used on About Being Global.

3:27

Hours I ah. He.

3:30

Hung up his I got, you know, I'm.

3:33

One of the great very few. Global

3:35

uses the think outside and as

3:37

I can yellow world in general

3:39

as hot as a as game.

3:42

With. Put that in my pocket and little gem. And.

3:45

So hours. Of

3:48

stock in our friends. a man. And

3:50

his of Palestinian December and. Regardless,

3:53

Who's doing the soon we gotta sub yourselves

3:55

on the pavement? Resist about. Having

3:57

any sort of empathy for human beings, understanding

4:01

it, it doesn't seem

4:03

natural to be so violent

4:06

towards others for reasons that are

4:09

manmade. It just

4:12

seems crazy to me. We

4:14

could talk it out, we can go fist the

4:17

cuffs in the parking lot, but

4:19

to take somebody else's life over

4:22

something that could be so trivial, it seems

4:24

so silly to me. It's just like,

4:26

come on, we got to do better. Let's

4:28

do better. We can do better. Yeah,

4:31

totally. You also have this really powerful line

4:33

in the title track of this record, JPG

4:35

Raw, where you talk about how you feel

4:37

like your son can't walk around the store

4:39

in a hoodie. You just

4:41

came off around in the store with the hoodie

4:44

hoodie, thinking it's all great. They go, they go, they go,

4:46

we ain't much of you like it. They look at you,

4:48

they look at you, they look at you, they look at

4:50

you, they look at you, they look at you, they look

4:52

at you like a boy like that. That's Smith Smith. You

4:55

have three children, and I'm curious if being a

4:57

father and watching this next generation

4:59

grow up has made you think

5:02

differently about where we are as

5:04

a society and just also around issues

5:06

of inequity. Yeah,

5:09

well, that line was, I said

5:12

my son can't walk around the store, but that's what

5:15

my dad said to me. Ah,

5:17

I see, yeah. So

5:20

that kind of mentality rolls

5:22

through. And growing up

5:24

at a certain time, at

5:26

a certain time where I

5:28

was, yeah, there were certain

5:30

things that was like,

5:33

you'll be looked at a certain way. You'll be

5:35

followed around the store. You'll be harassed. You'll be

5:38

asked a bunch of questions. My pop was like,

5:40

hey, if you want to dress for the role

5:42

of the criminal, you got to deal with the

5:44

consequences. Pick your pants up, put a

5:46

belt on, take that stupid thing

5:49

off your head when you go into

5:51

the store, you know, quit looking like

5:54

a thug, dude.

5:56

So it really stuck with me. My dad

5:58

was real tough on me. You're gonna go out of

6:01

the house looking like that? That's how you're gonna go? Really?

6:04

You gotta be presentable. I want you to look sharp.

6:06

I want you to look like you're ready to take

6:08

over the world. In the

6:10

positive way. That's

6:13

kind of where that comes from. Me

6:15

now realizing that you were your father that said

6:17

that. But I'm curious, now you being a father

6:19

now, do you feel the

6:21

same way you feel like your father did towards you?

6:23

Or do you have a different view for your kids?

6:26

Oh, no. I definitely have

6:28

the same view. I'm kind of old

6:31

school. Yeah. You

6:33

know? Soon

6:35

after I did that song, I was walking into the store

6:37

with my kid and I was like, he

6:39

had his hoodie on. My boy Z, he

6:41

had his hoodie on. And

6:44

he was like, he took a Coca-Cola into

6:46

the store. I said, dude, don't

6:48

bring that in there. Just don't bring it in.

6:50

You know? They're gonna think that you stole

6:52

it. That's just for my dad.

6:55

You know? I'm parenting directly from my

6:57

dad based on situations that I had. Hey, man, don't

6:59

take that in there. They're gonna think you stole it,

7:01

man. It's gonna be a thing. He's like, all right. The

7:04

next thing I know, he's got it in his pocket

7:06

and he's sipping the thing in the store.

7:09

And sure enough, the guy comes around

7:11

and goes, hey, are you stealing from me? And

7:15

my son looks up at me and I go,

7:18

I told you. I said, no, sir. He didn't

7:20

steal it. I told him I actually deleted

7:22

the thing in the car. You know? He's

7:24

like, are you sure? You can check your videotapes. Well,

7:26

we didn't steal none. I mean, I just came in

7:28

here to get some hand sanitizer. I'm out of here.

7:31

Yeah. And so he looked at me.

7:33

He was scared. I was like, that's exactly what I'm talking

7:35

about. That's exactly what I'm saying. Like,

7:37

don't set yourself up for failure, man. You

7:40

don't have to make it hard for yourself. And

7:42

although it may not be fun, you may not be able to do

7:44

whatever you want. Just

7:46

move in line, bro. You can just move slick,

7:48

bro. And just stay out of the way. I

7:51

like to move like a samurai. I like nobody to

7:53

know I'm even a rat. That's

7:56

just me. But that's

7:58

for me and my dad watching. food movies all

8:00

the time when I was a kid. So

8:02

that's how I parent, you know, as a

8:05

dad who loves coming to movies and

8:08

you know learn lessons from David Carradine and

8:10

TV show Kung Fu. That's how I parent. And

8:16

also in JPEG Raw

8:18

you say it's all my

8:21

fault I should have

8:23

paid more attention. What

8:30

are you referring to there? Um,

8:33

paid more attention I think. I

8:36

got into the music business and

8:39

I wasn't quite aware of a

8:41

lot of certain things. I

8:44

wasn't quite aware of how much

8:46

your brand and images really mattered.

8:49

I never knew, I didn't have, I didn't grow up

8:51

watching MTV. I didn't have MTV

8:54

as a kid. I didn't know what anybody looked

8:56

like. I didn't know what Nirvana

8:58

looked like. I didn't know what Tupac

9:01

looked like. I didn't know. I just heard

9:03

this stuff. I just listened to

9:05

it. And that was a fact that was enough

9:07

for me. So when I got in the business and I

9:09

was like, oh take this photo and hang with this person and do

9:11

this for this image and be here

9:13

and do this. I was like, what, what, what, what? I

9:16

felt like I was getting distracted from my

9:19

core being and from like the

9:22

thing that fueled me which was not

9:24

paying attention to that and simply

9:26

being an artist. You

9:28

know, I didn't realize what else came

9:31

with that. And it's like, ah, looking

9:33

back, I don't know if I

9:35

had to do some of the things that I did for a look. You

9:38

know, I just feel strong on

9:41

art being art. And, you know, I don't

9:43

know if I'm, this is probably terrible to say, you know,

9:45

in the music business, but I don't know if I'm up for playing

9:47

that game. It doesn't sit right with me. I

9:49

like to do what I got to do. I like to, when

9:51

it's time for me to roar, I roar and I go back

9:54

and hide. You know, that's

9:56

it. iconic

10:00

music roars out of this sleepy city and

10:02

launches a pop culture revolution. Here's

10:05

a story you haven't heard. Let

10:07

the Kids Dance is a new podcast about the

10:09

rise and fall of Seattle's teen dance ordinance, the

10:12

law that made it illegal for young people to

10:14

go to concerts. Listen to Let

10:16

the Kids Dance from KUOW and the NPR

10:18

Network. Your

10:33

song, Habits, is this nine-minute track that

10:35

closes up the album. And

10:51

I read that the song is about taking a hard

10:53

yet empowering look at yourself before

10:56

bad habits become problematic. And so I'm

10:58

curious for you, like what are these

11:00

habits for you and at what

11:02

point did you realize that you had to

11:04

address them? Whoo!

11:10

Habits for me, I mean

11:14

I grew up in a, as

11:17

a teenager, before

11:19

I could drive I was taking

11:22

combinations of certain

11:24

things. You know, as

11:26

like my recipe to perform, you know,

11:31

pills, alcohol, herb.

11:34

Like specifically like as an artist to perform as

11:36

a musician? Yeah, it was just

11:38

like, oh this is my creative juice, this is

11:40

your little, your magical potion.

11:42

You know, that was just like a thing. It was

11:44

like, oh everybody's got a thing. And

11:47

you know, being young and experimenting in school and

11:49

then being in the music business with older folks

11:52

who have been in the game for a while

11:54

and you know, it's not fun for them anymore.

11:56

They get sick if they don't. I didn't understand

11:58

that. Yeah. So yeah,

12:02

it was just years of doing that. And it

12:04

came to a point where I felt,

12:07

I just felt, I was like, I have gotten

12:09

away with so much and I have

12:11

such an opportunity. My life

12:13

is beautiful. You know,

12:16

my wife is amazing. She's strong.

12:18

She stands by me. My kids are so

12:21

smart and they have the world ahead of them. And

12:24

I could mess this up. If

12:27

I, you know, I could mess this up being

12:30

a rock and roller. So

12:33

I was like, it's not worth it to me.

12:36

I knew what I wanted to do. I knew after

12:38

the last record what I wanted to do. I

12:41

knew that I still had more in me. And

12:45

these things that have been in my

12:47

way to take

12:49

me down. And

12:51

it's not getting me easier. I'm not taking

12:53

it any easier on myself. There's

12:56

only one way out. If I

12:59

keep moving this way. And

13:03

that's devastating. So I just couldn't picture that.

13:06

So it's like, let me reel it back. Take

13:08

a deep breath. You know what

13:11

I mean? Like center and then move forward.

13:14

And how did that feel once you started doing

13:16

that? Oh,

13:18

it feels amazing. It feels amazing. I feel great. I

13:20

feel better than I've ever felt in my life. I'm

13:23

40 years old. So my ankle hurts when I wake

13:25

up for no reason. But hey, I'm good. But

13:27

do you feel like by

13:29

getting rid of it, you lost any creative edge?

13:32

Or do you have creativity in a totally new

13:34

way without it? I

13:39

think it was. Yeah,

13:41

I feel better without

13:43

it. I mean,

13:45

this record was the

13:47

lightest I've ever felt. The

13:50

most free I've ever felt. The most clear. I'm

13:55

not saying I'm a sober

13:57

individual or living the clean life, but

13:59

definitely not. I'm doing what I

14:01

used to and it feels great. You

14:04

know, I feel, you

14:06

know, I instead of going and waking

14:08

up in the morning and going, Oh, I wake

14:10

up in the morning and go, yeah. And

14:14

that's, that's amazing. I mean, it's just as simple

14:17

as that. Just like your disposition when you wake

14:19

up. I mean,

14:21

like, I feel like I'm ready to go get them. Like, I

14:23

feel like I can take off running like a 15 year old

14:25

kid again. I'm glad to

14:27

hear about that.

14:50

What is a song that you think everyone should

14:52

hear? Not a song of yours, a song that

14:54

you were loving as a fan, like a song

14:56

that has impacted you somewhere along your life or

14:58

a song that you're just loving right now. Oh

15:03

my goodness. A-E-X-B.

15:06

I cannot wait to share this one

15:08

with you. Tell us. Woo. Wee.

15:11

All right. I hate comparisons. Can

15:14

I tell the story? How much time do

15:17

we have? Can I tell this? I'm excited. This is

15:19

so perfect. This is all, it's

15:21

so perfect. All right. So

15:24

I'm in a record store in San

15:26

Marcos, Texas. I go

15:28

in, there's these three young guys that are working and

15:31

they go, hey, what are you doing here? And I'm like, what

15:33

do you mean? I felt offended and they're like, oh, we just

15:35

didn't expect you to be here. We know you are. It's cool.

15:37

You popped in and I was like, all right, cool. I

15:40

just want something. I just want anything.

15:42

I just want something new. Surprise me. And this

15:44

guy goes, do you want to cry, laugh and

15:47

contemplate your whole life at the same time? I

15:50

was like, yeah, give me that record. And

15:53

it's this artist called Maud DeBisa. I

15:55

think I'm pronouncing it right. M-A-L.

16:00

D-E-V-I-S-A. She put out this

16:02

record. This is not a

16:04

new record. She put this record out

16:06

in 2016, and

16:08

the first song off of it is called Fire. It

16:12

blew my mind. Everyone

16:14

that I've turned on to has

16:18

become an instant fan,

16:20

and she has shot up to

16:22

their top five artists of all time. Now,

16:25

you guys being in Seattle, this

16:27

is perfect, because when I

16:29

compare and talk about this person that's

16:32

an artist, I say, it

16:34

sounds like Nina Simone

16:37

meets the

16:40

Seattle grunge scene in the 90s. Oh,

16:44

right. Yeah.

16:46

So I'm excited. It's

16:49

like perfect. It's

16:51

perfect. And if you

16:53

don't love it, there's something wrong with

16:55

you. That

17:16

was my conversation

17:19

with Gary Clark

17:21

Jr. His

17:25

new album, JPGraw, is

17:27

out now. He'll be

17:30

playing at Chateau's

17:42

St. Michelle Winery in Woodinville, Washington

17:44

on August 14th. He'll be at the

17:46

Masonic in San Francisco on August 17th,

17:48

and at the Mountain Winery in

17:50

Saratoga, California on August 17th. And

18:02

that was a de-realism.

18:19

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18:21

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18:35

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18:47

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18:49

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