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1:13

Josh What number? Diet Coke is that for

1:15

you? You out there you judge me,

1:17

You come in the hit our times. You

1:19

go the bathroom in your life on. Josh

1:21

you like Thrilled! Eight kids in the recycling bin.

1:24

What's wrong with the man? Producer.

1:26

But it's about what. This

1:28

is a hot dog. Sandwich is

1:30

smooth and yeah but I see

1:32

my cereal so what makes you

1:34

know what are you have got.

1:40

Woken. Our podcast are hot dog is the sandwich

1:43

the show we break down the world's biggest food debates.

1:45

I'm your host, just share. And I'm your host, Nicole

1:47

And eighty and today. We have a very

1:49

special guest joining us. Please welcome People

1:51

Magazine's Sexiest Doctor Alive! Twenty Fifteen In

1:53

the reason my late Jewish grandmother once

1:55

said to me, see, you could have

1:57

been a huge uber and a doctor.

2:00

Dr. Mike Varshaski, welcome to the show. Wow,

2:04

what an introduction. I hope my grandma,

2:06

you know, God rest her soul, is

2:08

sitting there thinking the same thing. Very

2:10

proud of my YouTube viewership and medical

2:13

acumen. Boy, it is so

2:15

hard to explain to 100 centenarian

2:17

Jewish grandmothers what YouTube is, but when she

2:19

found out there was someone that was also

2:21

a doctor, that is when I immediately went

2:23

down the totem pole. But comparison is a

2:25

sea for joy. Mike, thanks for joining us. Thank you so

2:27

much for being here. Yeah,

2:30

I'm really excited to chat what seems

2:32

to be something that you have on

2:34

full display there. Some coke and diet

2:36

coke and peppers and Dr.

2:38

Diet Pepper. Yeah,

2:41

correct. Did you go to medical school with

2:43

Dr. Pepper? Are

2:45

you familiar with his work? I believe that there

2:47

was a Dr. Lisa Pepper in my class. That's,

2:50

man, that's tough. And I'm not making that up. There's

2:52

a Dr. Pepper on Mary at first sight.

2:55

Really? Yeah, best show ever. Huge,

2:57

huge, huge. Today, today, Dr. Mike, we brought you on

2:59

because Nicole and I are, I

3:01

don't want to say dumb. Dumber than

3:03

some. I feel like, I don't think

3:06

we're dumb. I think if we applied

3:08

ourselves, maybe we could have been doctors

3:10

too. So don't cut yourself so short, Josh, I'll

3:12

try with you. I could not have been a doctor. But

3:15

what I can do is yell about diet soda on

3:17

the internet. That's true, you can do that pretty well.

3:19

And that's what we're doing today. Dr. Mike, we wanted

3:21

to answer the question, is diet soda actually bad for

3:23

you? And I know that is a very loaded question.

3:26

Bad. Bad call of comes

3:28

in quotation marks. But I drink probably

3:30

three Diet Cokes a day. It used

3:32

to be more. How many

3:34

Diet Red Bulls do you drink a day? Oh, okay,

3:36

that's another. How many Diet drinks? How

3:39

many Diet drinks? Including your, I would say

3:41

your breakfast smoothie might also be

3:43

a diet drink. Not mine, not mine. I

3:45

drink a bunch of Aspartame at six in

3:47

the morning with my pre-workout. I'm drinking Aspartame

3:49

at nine in the morning with my protein

3:51

shake. I'm drinking Aspartame at 11. There

3:54

is not a point in my

3:56

day in which Aspartame is not coursing through my

3:58

veins and many people on the- Lime Pie

4:00

for you. Feel like Nicole lump you They're

4:02

says this is terrible for you. it's going

4:04

to kill you might. What are your initial

4:06

thoughts? While the one

4:09

thing that I can guarantee you

4:11

is that life is gonna kill

4:13

you. So yeah, thinking about the

4:15

individual ingredients like diet soda and

4:17

the artificial sweeteners that are found

4:19

in them is likely not what's

4:21

gonna do you it? We live

4:23

in a world that is full

4:25

of risk and the number of

4:27

risks we face and the number

4:29

of things that impact our day

4:32

to day behaviors, our chances of

4:34

getting sick, our chances of getting

4:36

better really are astronomical. probably too.

4:38

Much for the human brains. Even wrap

4:40

our heads around like if weeks even

4:42

try and think what is a hundred

4:44

trillion look like or count or appear

4:46

like we can't imagine we can think

4:48

in those numbers much in the same

4:51

way we can think about risk. So

4:53

when we asked a question, it's very

4:55

binary like our diet sodas. Bad. Were.

4:57

Truly ask a question that has no

5:00

answer. It depends for whom. It depends

5:02

what we're switching from, what we're having

5:04

it in lieu of how much are

5:06

we having. It's and I'll only until

5:08

we get all those questions answered Smi.

5:10

We even come close to answering their

5:12

question. but I'm excited to discuss it

5:15

because I think there's funded the. Oh

5:18

hundred percent and also died so days

5:20

and thing that has rocketed in popularity.

5:22

Hundred years and I think there's a

5:24

lot of different factors about it. One

5:26

thing is people's general fear of sugar.

5:29

My general thoughts on nutrition and I

5:31

certainly not an expert. I've just been

5:33

on a lot of bodybuilding.com pharmacists about.

5:35

I am reading a fantastic book by

5:37

it's called Food Politics by Marion Nestle.

5:39

She is a long time academic at

5:41

U C Berkeley it's on but she

5:43

said something that kind of stop me

5:46

my tracks which is nutrition science has.

5:48

The. Advice from Nutrition Science has not

5:50

changed since World War Two. It is

5:53

eat less meat and eat more fresh

5:55

fruits and vegetables. every single thing past.

5:57

that is because the media operates. forms

6:00

of headlines. There needs to be

6:02

novelization in this. Sensolatize, whatever. Exactly.

6:04

There needs to be some sort

6:07

of new information to report, and

6:09

people report it. And Aspartame is

6:12

one of the ingredients that

6:14

has been really pushed as

6:16

a potential single cause

6:19

of, I've seen Alzheimer's, strokes,

6:21

cancer, autism, and

6:23

then... Autism? People are saying that? People

6:26

on the internet will say everything. That's true. But

6:28

this is one of those single ingredients that people like

6:31

to single out. And

6:33

one of the first studies was

6:35

in 2007, it was called the Ramazini

6:38

Foundation. They did

6:40

a test where they were intravenously

6:42

injecting lab rats with Aspartame, and

6:44

that showed a link to bladder

6:46

cancer. And that was one of

6:48

the first studies that really influenced

6:51

people to not drink Aspartame, or at

6:53

least to fear it. But

6:55

Mike, I want to ask you, what are

6:57

the limitations on these studies where

7:00

they're not experimenting on

7:02

humans because they can't, and they're using

7:04

things like lab rats, and they are,

7:06

say, injecting things intravenously that you would

7:08

normally consume orally? What are the correlations

7:10

that you can draw from that? Yeah,

7:13

so basically, when we do mechanistic

7:16

research, starting with

7:18

a hypothesis, we have a theory that if

7:20

you consume product X, you're going to get

7:22

outcome Y. Does Aspartame

7:24

increase risk of a specific cancer?

7:27

We don't rush to start testing that in

7:29

humans. We first start looking at the

7:31

mechanisms in a Petri dish, in a lab model,

7:33

just to see what happens. And we start seeing

7:36

a possible mechanism that can evolve. Then

7:38

we raise that up, and we start

7:40

doing it in animal models. Sometimes that happens in

7:43

rats. Sometimes it happens in the rhesus monkey. And

7:45

we start seeing the progression of it. And

7:49

everything fails, that

7:51

initial hypothesis theory, before

7:53

reaching human outcomes. Even,

7:56

like if you take big pharma, right,

7:58

who want to maximize. their profit.

8:00

So they're not doing research willy-nilly. They're

8:03

doing research on things that they believe

8:05

have a high chance of working. And

8:07

even with big pharma, when a

8:10

medication starts in the

8:12

hypothesis theory in those petri dishes and

8:14

animal models, 999

8:17

out of 1,000 do not make it

8:19

to human trials. And even

8:22

when they make it to human trials, passing

8:24

to human safety and proving that it actually

8:26

works, 95%

8:28

of those fail. So imagine

8:30

if these are companies

8:33

that have the most brilliant people in the

8:35

world, they're trying to spend their money as

8:37

efficiently as possible, and even then they're failing.

8:40

That goes to show that our knowledge

8:42

isn't as deep as we put it

8:44

out to be, especially when

8:46

it comes with petri dishes, animal models.

8:49

It can show guidance to

8:51

us as doctors, as researchers, in which

8:53

way we can go forward where

8:55

we can ask better questions, but it

8:57

certainly doesn't tell us how we should

8:59

live our lives. Because if we did

9:01

that, boy, we would have a different

9:03

result on a different day

9:05

depending on who authored the study and

9:07

what finding they were looking for. There's

9:09

actually a study that exists showing consuming

9:13

any food, they literally took

9:15

dozens of foods, and

9:17

they saw that consuming any one of those

9:19

foods raises the risk of colorectal cancer. Just

9:21

to prove that if you really

9:23

want to find that correlation link,

9:26

it doesn't mean that it

9:28

caused the cancer to happen. So

9:31

we have to be very careful when we're

9:33

looking at this research or even being presented

9:35

with research how we let it affect our

9:37

everyday lives. Yeah, 100%. It

9:39

seems like nutritional research specifically because

9:41

there are so many different factors

9:44

becomes incredibly hard to digest. There

9:48

was a recent, 2023, the World

9:51

Health Organization comes out, and they

9:53

say that aspartame is, quote, possibly

9:55

carcinogenic to humans, and many, many

9:58

people sent me this. distinction

10:00

and said, see Aspartame

10:02

carcinogenic world health organization,

10:04

a legit organization, ergo,

10:07

I was right, you were wrong, diet

10:09

soda is terrible for you. And then

10:11

if you even go a little bit

10:13

deeper, what they mean by possibly carcinogenic

10:15

to humans is the findings of limited

10:18

evidence of carcinogenicity in humans and animals

10:20

and of limited mechanistic evidence of how

10:22

carcinogenicity may occur underscore the need for

10:24

more research to refine our understanding. So

10:26

basically they said, we don't know. One

10:29

of the studies have then why write

10:31

it? Why write it? Why?

10:34

This is why I went into YouTube because

10:38

I watch my medical

10:40

profession put out accurate

10:43

information like what you just read. But

10:46

their ability to make it user

10:48

friendly or understandable be

10:50

complete poop. And I

10:52

can't find a better word for it

10:54

because it's poop. It's misleading. What is

10:56

being said? Even when we do like

10:58

statistical research and you'll see

11:02

like news articles pop out and they

11:04

say this medicine statistically significantly

11:07

lowers rates of your blood

11:09

pressure. And you're like, oh,

11:11

well statistically significantly, that sounds

11:13

significant. That sounds strong. Those

11:15

are words. Typically significantly just

11:18

means that whatever

11:20

outcome happened, it was statistically

11:23

strong that it happened. But

11:25

that outcome could be huge.

11:28

It could be clinically insignificant. So

11:31

just because something is statistically significant

11:33

doesn't mean it's also clinically significant.

11:35

And how we show that to

11:37

the world is

11:40

what makes us good doctors I

11:42

think. Otherwise then

11:44

you're going to get probably carcinogenic

11:46

or possibly carcinogenic and then you're

11:48

scaring people as opposed to, hey,

11:51

we saw some initial mechanisms but unproven

11:53

as of yet. Whoa. That's

11:55

a lot more reassuring than what they

11:57

initially said. I just want to thank you for your

11:59

time. to thank my AP stats teacher.

12:01

That's right. I got a four on

12:04

the exam. But honestly, that and fantasy

12:06

football, because like, when

12:09

you hear a stat like doubles your

12:11

risk of say Alzheimer's, that was

12:13

one of the least. That adds to the

12:15

untrained ear, that sounds scary. It is incredibly

12:17

scary. And then if you see that the

12:19

risk went from 0.001 to 0.002, that is

12:24

not something that is actually going to affect

12:27

anybody even on a mass

12:29

population level. And so like

12:31

actually being able to dig into the statistics and understand

12:33

where this is coming from. Also understanding,

12:36

I don't expect every person, the general

12:38

population to go into the method methodology of

12:41

every study. But you look at

12:43

this initial rat study out of the Ramazini Foundation

12:45

in the early 2000s. And

12:47

you found out that they were injecting them with the

12:49

equivalent of a human drinking 1200 diet

12:51

cokes a day. Oh

12:53

my gosh. Yeah. We're babies. So

12:56

you see the links are

12:58

really tough. I just want

13:00

to get into the history of diet soda really quick

13:02

because I've... Lay it on me, Josh. Let's hear it.

13:04

Well, okay. I'm going to ask you two, what do

13:06

you think the first diet soda was in America? Tab.

13:09

Tab. I have

13:11

no idea. I'm an immigrant, so I don't know

13:13

American history well. What's the

13:15

first from where? From

13:18

Russia. Do they make... do you

13:20

ever drink kvas? Do they have

13:22

diet kvas? No. What? Let's make it.

13:26

Sounds good. I kind of want to try it.

13:28

It's made from fermented bread. Yeah. I'm

13:30

a big fan. We'll find some diet kvas. But

13:33

no, it was actually a soda that predated Tab

13:35

by about 10 years, and it was called NoCal.

13:38

NoCal was made with... neither had I until

13:40

I was researching this, but

13:42

it was primarily made for

13:44

diabetic patients, and

13:47

it was mainly sold and consumed

13:49

in medical facilities. And

13:51

it wasn't until... Oh, like in hospital... like

13:53

if you were a diabetic in the hospital, they wouldn't give

13:55

it to you. Yeah, they wanted a sweet

13:57

treat, and it was made using a sweetener called

13:59

sodium. and cyclamate and

14:02

saccharin. So saccharin is the original sweetener

14:04

found in Tab. Saccharin was

14:06

actually banned in the United States in 1981 leading

14:08

to the formation of Diet

14:11

Coke using aspartame in 1982 if

14:13

you're tracking with the history. The reason this

14:15

is important is no cow

14:17

comes out with sodium cyclamate in 1952. That

14:21

was six years before the FDA passed

14:23

the Food Additives Act which they introduced

14:25

the crazy legislation that if you're adding

14:27

chemicals to food, we should test them

14:29

first. Before that, you simply were not

14:31

allowed to, or you simply didn't have

14:33

to. You were not obligated to. And

14:36

then there was a very similar study. Lab

14:38

rats showed bladder cancer with insanely high

14:40

doses of sodium cyclamate. It was a

14:43

one study phenomenon that was never able

14:45

to be reproduced whatsoever and we have

14:47

now banned sodium cyclamate in the United

14:49

States because of that study and

14:52

it was not banned in Europe. There's

14:54

this crazy sorted history where Europe

14:57

banned saccharin before the United States. The

14:59

United States banned sodium cyclamate before Europe

15:01

and it's still considered safe in Europe.

15:04

How can science is

15:06

supposed to be about objective truth and sharing

15:08

the information around the world but how do

15:11

we end up in a situation where one

15:13

ingredient is banned in Europe, one's not in

15:15

the US? In

15:17

my opinion, it's probably due to the

15:20

bureaucracy of the matter. You have a

15:22

lot of people that are either elected

15:24

or appointed into certain positions. They're

15:26

in those positions for long periods of time. They

15:29

have their own intrinsic biases on what they

15:31

think is right and as

15:33

a result, you have rules that

15:35

don't make a lot of sense. For

15:38

me as a primary care physician, I

15:40

find it strange that the FDA will

15:42

only step in and regulate a supplement

15:44

if it's already raising red flags

15:47

about causing harm and killing people.

15:50

Otherwise, I can right now bottle

15:52

up whatever I want into a

15:54

capsule on this table, put it

15:56

into a little capsule and

15:58

a bottle, a pretty bottle. say magic

16:01

mike's formula to

16:03

make you faster, stronger, better, whatever,

16:06

and I could legally do that. And

16:08

the fact that the FDA won't check it

16:10

is wild. I think Channing Tatum has rights

16:13

to that name. So that's

16:15

your only legal battle there. So

16:17

check this out. I can do that, but my

16:19

only concern is not that I just poured god

16:21

knows what into the pill, but that Channing Tatum

16:23

might sue me. That's the only risk to doing

16:26

this thing. The only risk. That's

16:28

the problem. Magic mike should be public domain.

16:30

I think that's what we learned from this.

16:36

The dedication of a fan is not something

16:38

to be taken lightly. They eat, sleep, and

16:40

breathe fandom and maybe drink it too. As

16:42

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16:45

your team take down their opponents as they rush

16:47

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16:49

Mountain Dew fan, you know the satisfaction

16:51

of sipping on an ice-cold Mountain Dew

16:53

Baja Blast with its refreshing tropical lime

16:55

flavor. And, if you're asking

16:57

me, they both sound equally as important.

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That's why we've created 940 Baja,

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17:41

I grew up in the golden age

17:43

of GNC where literally when I was

17:45

in high school you could walk in

17:47

and you could buy Trenbologne. You could

17:50

buy legitimate steroids. What is Trenbologne? Trenbologne,

17:52

I believe it was an anabolic steroid

17:54

originally used in cattle production. Mike

17:57

forgive me if you know more about this than I do. I'm

18:00

not super familiar with cattle hormones

18:02

and and Steroidal,

18:06

but no you can literally buy anabolic

18:08

steroids There's a product called Tren Extreme

18:10

the makers of it are now in

18:12

prison because they were putting straight steroids

18:15

in it And there's also another product

18:17

that had straight-up amphetamines in it because

18:19

the supplement industry is not regulated And

18:21

we had a bunch of cracked out.

18:23

Yeah, there's been so many instances of

18:25

over-the-counter Medications this

18:27

this happens quite frequently as of

18:29

late in gas station pills

18:31

where like so say oh

18:35

Yes, exactly libido boosters and

18:37

really the only ingredient in

18:39

there is seltenafil Which is

18:41

the medication found in Viagra?

18:44

So they're selling a prescription medication

18:46

within and over-the-counter medicine because no

18:48

one's checking what's actually in it

18:51

That's crazy. You're telling me it's not it's

18:53

not the properties of honey And

18:55

ashwagandha that are leading people to four

18:57

hours That's

19:00

probably the question I get most is like which

19:02

supplement should I take to boost x y and

19:04

z I'm like probably shouldn't

19:07

take anything unless there's a medical reason as to

19:09

why you're taking it dark leafy greens

19:12

Well yeah, those are great. Why not take

19:14

my question is why people Instead

19:17

of eating dark leafy greens go for like

19:19

some green powder just eat the dark leafy

19:21

greens Why make them into a powder chewing

19:23

is awesome. It's a good time Yeah,

19:26

no, I mean that you like to chew

19:28

that it's a hell of a question when

19:30

I played sports in college I knew a

19:32

lot of people who instead of eating any

19:34

vegetables would only drink spirulina powder That was

19:36

yeah, big thing and they're like I'm getting

19:38

all the nutrients and I was like have

19:40

you heard of a salad? But

19:43

some people don't got it in the bag I want

19:45

to talk about the alternative to diet soda because when

19:47

we're talking about people drinking diet soda Sparkling

19:50

water well yeah, I mean water

19:52

is probably I'm a pellagrino girl

19:54

always Let me tell every time I should bought dinner

19:56

my mother-in-law puts out all of the cokes And then

19:58

she gives me the pellagrino because she knows

20:01

I only drink pelligrino. I don't like

20:03

sodas, honestly, anymore. You don't like the flavor, you don't

20:05

like the sugary stuff. Okay, well, I mean, when I

20:07

was a kid, I loved Coke. I mean,

20:09

I'm more of a Sprite drinker than

20:11

any of these things. But I don't

20:13

know what it is. I think it's

20:15

too sweet, and I hate the spies

20:18

disgusted with the taste of Diet Coke

20:20

and zero and all these zero-calorie

20:22

stuff. Do I have it, like, if I'm, like, eating

20:24

food and I need some indigestion help? Yes, so I

20:26

have a sip of Diet Coke. Of course, because I

20:28

feel like the fake sugar or the real sugar helps.

20:31

But I don't drink, like, people just

20:33

drink cans of soda. Yeah. I can't

20:35

do that. I think it depends on if you're

20:37

drinking that. Pellegrino also has a softer bubble, which

20:40

is why I don't like it. I need the violence.

20:42

I need the violence of Coco Chico. No, 100%, that's

20:44

why I don't like Pellegrino. I'm a soft, delicate

20:46

lady. I like the soft bubbles. Too much bubbles,

20:48

it just ruins my day. No,

20:51

but we have seen an explosion, and I think part

20:54

of it is the fear of full sugar sodas, the

20:57

kind of carb phobia that we've been fed

20:59

for our entire lives. Sure, sure. Part of

21:01

it is the fear of astro time, the

21:03

unknown, which is why we've seen things like

21:05

LaCroix really explode on the market. Oh, sure.

21:07

But, Dr. Mike, do you drink diet sodas?

21:09

Do you consume artificial sweeteners? No, I'm a

21:11

Pellegrino guy myself as well. Well done, well

21:13

done. I'm proud of you. Or sparkling water

21:16

in general. I will say anything bubbly, even

21:18

if it doesn't have sugar, there's

21:21

been some theoretical evidence of how

21:23

it can influence weight. In

21:26

fact, some of the doctors that work

21:28

in my metabolic department, in my hospital,

21:30

will frequently talk about with their patients

21:32

who consume gassy beverages,

21:34

and how it creates some bloating and

21:37

expansion of the stomach, which can then

21:39

lead you to have more

21:42

space in the stomach, therefore you don't feel as

21:44

full if you have a smaller meal, if

21:46

you don't have the sparkling water. So

21:49

it's not something that's incredibly proven, but

21:51

something that we take into consideration when

21:53

we're giving recommendations. Well, this

21:55

sucks. No, but something that's...

21:58

No, but I don't want you to think this... After know

22:00

I know that see, that's the thing. We

22:02

can villain eyes and say something's all bad

22:05

are all good because so you're swapping from

22:07

a sugary soda, you're looking to reduce the

22:09

amount of added sugar. Your take Lawrence, which

22:12

is probably useful in most cases, but if

22:14

you're looking to do that, switching to a

22:16

sparkling water is a great alternative. Agreed. But

22:18

now, if you're drinking a lot of sparkling

22:21

water and you're having acid reflux symptoms and

22:23

you're ready to are struggling to lose weight

22:25

and you've gotta hit a plateau. Maybe it's

22:28

something else you can try, but it doesn't.

22:30

Mean, I'm signaling everyone to stop

22:32

drinking sparkling water. Thank

22:34

you. I read a headline of the thread.

22:37

sugar is more addictive than cocaine doctor might.

22:39

Should I switch from putting sugar my coffee

22:41

to putting cocaine My copy: I hate those

22:43

medicines Doesn't have no, please don't do that.

22:46

I saw some of that said seizes the same

22:49

level of. Addiction as go to draw

22:51

their discomfort. Soda A soda. or

22:53

and so when we're talking about.

22:55

His eyes are bad for you. We understand is

22:57

that click bait title. There's absolutely no answer but

22:59

that's what people are likely searching. Yeah that is

23:02

what my of certs hundreds of times and I

23:04

get on web M D and as as you

23:06

have bone cancer and I get freaked out. That.

23:10

Seems to be. there are two sides

23:12

to this. there's what's happening to you

23:14

on the molecular level. a diet soda

23:16

which all the Saudis again the World

23:18

Health Organization said possibly carcinogenic. positively. the

23:20

evidence and really their on. But the

23:22

more interesting side of it to me

23:24

is the behavioral side of it. Which.

23:26

When you're drinking diet soda, what is it doing

23:28

to you? Psychologically. You said

23:31

that this tastes discussing to you. Probably.

23:33

An Eco that is. He has you for your mouse

23:35

on as I did, yeah, but I remembered that as

23:37

it's yeah. the clean slate for most things. Bless

23:40

you mister. The regular says you

23:43

are, you are not raised on

23:45

drinking a bunch of sugary survivor

23:47

not raised that way. I used

23:49

to drink a half gallon of

23:52

cranberry cocktail. Not use minds Ukraine,

23:54

rather talk meal a day. Because.

23:57

I. Thought that there is food and

23:59

at I did. Was raised with a lot

24:01

of like nutritional education. I thought there

24:03

was fruit in it that many was

24:05

good for me so I would argue

24:07

with impunity. but like that imbued my

24:09

taste buds with just such a fortitude.

24:11

Nicole to we all end all of

24:14

this taste. Combine that with my love

24:16

of pre workout ah and various nerds

24:18

candies? yeah and I taste diet coke

24:20

and it's like shooting a bb gun

24:22

at a tank to me like I

24:24

need this flavor. But can you just

24:26

drink the regular day in the regular cook

24:28

for a second and tell me how much

24:31

better that. Oh my God is like

24:33

a nectar of ago. But if I

24:35

drink the equivalent, if I drink the

24:37

equivalent of said during ford I go

24:39

today. It's a drink for these. That's

24:41

an additional quick math. Six hundred forty

24:44

calories. See that soma? It's which you

24:46

know is, I'm not. it's it runs

24:48

contrary to my own personal cells, by

24:50

day, of my own fitness and health

24:52

goals or new. So for me, I'm

24:54

like I need this. But there's been

24:57

a fair amount of research out there

24:59

that says if you drink diet soda

25:01

because aspartame. Is thirty times sweeter than

25:03

Shudder his conditioning you? And there's been

25:06

some really convincing research, both on humans

25:08

and fruit flies that were fed Splenda

25:10

instead of sugar. Eight Thirty percent more

25:12

food. Or. Any other on

25:15

the people are when people are consumed

25:17

diet soda and this is on a

25:19

analyzing ten years of data of people's

25:21

real lifestyle choices. People who drink diet

25:23

soda as a about thirty percent more

25:25

or what they called discretionary calories which

25:27

are fun little treat foods so there

25:29

does seem to at least be a

25:32

call it like up. Not. Cause

25:34

of the correlational link: Correlation: Yeah, between

25:36

drinking diet soda and eating more sugary

25:38

foods. Outside of that, Child

25:40

yes. And then when we look

25:42

at the randomized controlled data which

25:44

is kind of our gold standard

25:47

were of when we do research

25:49

and why. dietary research usually not

25:51

randomized controlled because you have to like monitor

25:53

what every person eats and then swap them

25:55

and and randomized them to certain groups that's

25:58

very hard to do long term And

26:00

if we don't have long-term data, we end up

26:03

using questionnaires and following people for a long period

26:05

of time and all that stuff. But

26:07

what we found is, yes, in some

26:10

instances, we found that people have a

26:12

prerequisite for – like a

26:14

precursor for more sweet foods if they consume a lot of

26:17

these sweetened beverages. And then in

26:19

some randomized control data, we found the exact

26:21

opposite, that when you compared people to these

26:25

artificially sweetened beverages to water,

26:27

to regular sodas, we found

26:29

that people who drank artificial

26:32

sweetener beverages actually

26:36

got their sweet kick from those things and ended

26:39

up eating less sweets and lost more weight. Sounds

26:43

simple. So it sounds like science

26:46

is all over the place. It's conflicting. It's

26:48

conflicting information. Which means that there is no

26:50

clear answer yet. So now

26:52

I'm going to give you the practical answer

26:54

of how I practice in a field of

26:56

uncertainty. Because being a good

26:59

doctor, especially a family medicine doctor, means I

27:01

have to work within the

27:03

bounds of our current knowledge. And

27:05

many times, our current knowledge is incomplete and yet I

27:07

still have to give some kind of advice, right? I

27:10

can't just have a patient come in and say, meh.

27:12

Because that's not going to be very valuable. That's not

27:14

going to help anybody, yeah. And my Yelp score is

27:16

going to probably drop really quickly. So

27:18

here's what I say to patients. If

27:21

you are drinking water and you're

27:23

happy, do not switch to diet

27:25

soda. There's no benefit to

27:27

doing so. In fact, there's some potential risk.

27:30

Potential risk. We don't even know that yet. If

27:32

you're drinking sugary soda and

27:35

that sugar is harming you, whether

27:37

in the form of having higher

27:39

weight, having high triglycerides, you have

27:41

diabetes, switching to a

27:43

diet soda is going to be

27:45

smart because then those risks are

27:48

going to be swapped for less risk.

27:52

So again, to who are you giving the

27:54

advice? What are they switching from? That's

27:57

how we're going to give practical feedback. areas

28:00

of uncertainty. Mike,

28:02

that makes such a terrible headline. I feel like

28:04

we should say diet soda kills you faster. You

28:06

know what I mean? I feel like we should

28:08

just workshop that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No,

28:10

but I mean that is the answer that nobody

28:13

wants to hear, which is very nuanced. But it's

28:15

the best answer. Yeah, and that... It's nuanced. It's

28:18

nuanced, too, with a thought. And guess what? You're

28:20

doing the diet sodas four times a day.

28:22

I would say most people don't fall into

28:24

the category where they're having multiple cans

28:27

in a day. Most people who

28:29

are looking into this are just having it sometimes, barring

28:33

certain outliers. And if

28:35

you're having a diet coke or whatever

28:37

beverage you want that's artificially sweetened sometimes,

28:40

who cares? The

28:43

people that then start isolating that

28:46

or the cold plunges or

28:48

some other fad thing in a given

28:50

moment, it's like you are

28:52

so disconnected from the risks we face

28:54

in everyday life, how our mental health

28:57

changes when someone breaks up with us,

28:59

whether or not we take too much of

29:02

a prescription medication, whether or not we're

29:04

over consuming calories, whether or not we

29:06

make it to the gym, whether

29:08

or not we sleep well. Those things

29:10

have huge impacts of our health. Talking

29:13

about the four minute cold plunge protocol

29:15

that you're doing or whether or not

29:17

you have one coke can a week

29:19

is so useless. I cannot

29:21

begin to explain to people how unimportant it

29:24

is. Gut

29:26

health. Nicole, the key here is

29:28

gut health. This comes in and it as this

29:31

erates your flora. No, the fauna. The

29:34

fauna within my gut right now. Man, the

29:36

flora within it as well. Little birds. There's

29:38

little pigeons in there pecking at. No, no, no, the flora is the flowers

29:41

and the fauna are the little deer. This

29:43

guy, he's on the paycheck, he's on the

29:45

payroll for Baked Farmer right now. I know,

29:47

I know, I know. Why do we have

29:49

them all? Cold plunges, they target Nicole. They

29:51

target your lip lipidiness. Lipidiness. Yeah, yeah, lipidema.

29:53

If it lasts for four hours, see Dr.

29:55

Mike. Yeah, sex flying pills.

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32:00

Nicole and Mike, we've heard what you and I have to say.

32:02

Now it's time to find out what other wacky ideas are rattling

32:04

out there in the universe. It's time for a segment we call...

32:06

Opinions I Like Casseroles!

32:14

He likes it. Does that mean nobody wants them?

32:17

She did a little bit. Uh... Well,

32:19

you don't like Casseroles? I

32:21

don't know, I don't... To be honest, this

32:23

is... I can't believe I'm admitting this. What's

32:25

a Casserole? That's another

32:27

podcast entirely! Okay, so... Do you have

32:30

another hour? It's

32:32

funny because... Is it that long? So

32:34

Casseroles were technically... The first

32:36

time the term was used in the modern American context in

32:39

the mid 1700s. I'm deadass serious. It

32:41

was in Vermont. But that said, like any...

32:43

It's just any large amalgamation of foods that

32:45

is baked inside one dish and meant to

32:47

be eaten as such. So it's

32:49

just like a one pot. So they've existed throughout

32:51

all of history. It's how most people ate for... Like a

32:53

stew? Kind of like a stew, but... Stew is

32:56

too wet. Stew is too wet. Okay, have

32:58

you ever had like my grandma's... I think

33:00

there's sous out there that would have exception

33:02

to that statement. No, but like... Have

33:04

you had Kugel before? Kugel's not a

33:06

Casserole. Yes, it is. It's cooked in a Casserole dish. If

33:08

you do like a beef stew with a Kugel top, that's

33:10

a Casserole. Okay, you're the only person on planet Earth

33:12

that has done that. No, Mike, have you ever had a

33:15

beef stew with a Kugel top? I

33:17

don't know what a Kugel top is. There's no

33:19

one. Kugel top is very good. I am not

33:21

part of my medical education. Why? Okay.

33:24

Should we get into our first... The Minnesotans call it a hot dish.

33:27

Okay. Well, my first opinion, Dr. Mike... Nicole

33:30

and I have both taken a very pro leeching

33:32

stance on this podcast.

33:34

Pro leeching. Yeah, just medical for what?

33:36

I mean for leeching and bloodletting. Well, because here's the

33:38

thing. You have blood in you and it's bad and

33:40

you need to get it out. What better creature than

33:42

a leech? Why

33:44

is the blood problematic? Nicole,

33:47

my colleagues... Are you asking me? Yeah. You should have

33:50

Zootzite. Do you know we still do bloodletting for very

33:52

specific conditions? I can name you one. Tell me. What

33:54

do you name us one? Polycythemia

33:56

vera. Okay. Where you have

33:59

an... overproduction of red blood

34:01

cells and as a result it actually

34:03

you would go in and get

34:07

Some blood taking out. Yeah, but you would

34:09

do it like with the syringe and like

34:11

oh, yeah You would the leeches don't take

34:13

enough blood. You're not just like think someone open

34:16

and like bloodletting the leeches need jobs Nicole, I'm

34:18

actually I used to go to I Used

34:21

to go to he was a chiropractor, but

34:23

he was also the USA weightlifting Olympic

34:26

teams doctor and so I went to do soft

34:28

tissue work But he also

34:30

did some like kind of weird stuff and he

34:32

did a practice called wet cupping my dad

34:35

I'm trying to my dad did that in

34:37

China They make little incisions and

34:39

then they do the cupping and that sucks the blood

34:41

out Yeah, so I walked into this man's office for

34:43

the first time There's a person who's back was covered

34:45

in blood and I freaked out my

34:47

dad did that in China And he showed me pictures like

34:49

look how cool this is and I'm like, this is not

34:52

cool Don't show me your

34:54

bloody I'm saying could have been leeches Nicole.

34:56

You'd read the first opinion. I'm sure I

34:58

love to read Alright, so we

35:00

asked our audience if they had any specific health

35:02

or nutritional questions And so

35:04

Nicole is gonna read them out to you you get first crack

35:06

at your response to him Sure. So the first one

35:09

we have is at pretzel

35:11

emoji Picky eaters are

35:13

just a sign of weak parenting

35:18

No Can't do

35:20

it can't co-assign that statement

35:23

Why what is the cause of picky eating? I mean, I'm

35:25

sure there's not one cause but yeah,

35:27

that's the thing That's so variable.

35:30

Could you have contributed to

35:32

the pickiness of your

35:34

child with your parenting habits? Sure But

35:37

does that mean it's necessarily your fault?

35:39

I mean I can give you medical

35:41

conditions of like hyperphagia syndromes

35:43

where children eat so much so

35:46

that their Obesity cannot

35:48

be caused by overfeeding alone. It's

35:50

a hormonal issue. So to say

35:52

that all causes of it are

35:54

that not true

35:58

I think And

36:02

now we get Nicole's medical review. As

36:04

someone who could have been a doctor if she applied herself.

36:10

I do think some parents, you know,

36:12

kind of like, like if my mom

36:15

didn't like a certain food. Like

36:17

my mom doesn't like the color purple. She's never been

36:19

a fan of the color purple, not the movie, like

36:21

the color purple. She doesn't like it. Do

36:24

I now have a slight aversion to the color

36:26

purple? A little bit. I don't, it's not my

36:28

favorite color. Sure. But

36:30

there's plenty of examples of people who like hear

36:32

that from their parents and then love the color

36:34

purple. Yeah, that's the opposite. Okay, but that's

36:36

because of the way you were raised. Like

36:38

I always wanted to be like my mom.

36:40

So. I was familiar with the 2008 study

36:42

of Rodriguez et al. coming out of University

36:45

of Illinois Urbana-Champaign where I think what, alright

36:47

next opinion we got. What do you mean?

36:49

You need to say something about this. Well

36:52

I don't, I know nothing about parenting. I'm just

36:54

so afraid I really want children and I'm so

36:56

afraid that I'm going to do all the

36:58

things that I think are right and then they're

37:00

going to hate me and only eat french fries

37:03

and. Just let them hang out with Auntie Nicole.

37:05

They're going to be whipped into shape. I am so

37:07

afraid. Don't worry about it. Okay,

37:09

I'm going to correct the opinion and the

37:12

opinion will state this now. Parenting

37:16

can have an impact on the pickiness of

37:18

your child's eating habits. I like that.

37:20

That's good. Well done doc. Nuance.

37:23

Alright, we got, oh I had one that I like. Here we go. It's

37:26

purple right now. Oh

37:29

my drink is purple. It's like pink. It's

37:31

like fuchsia. Get you overcoming childhood trauma,

37:33

I'm proud of you. At Greg Bernishaw

37:35

says eating healthy doesn't mean

37:37

you can't put seasoning in your food.

37:41

Oh, of course. In

37:43

fact seasoning in many ways is

37:45

healthy and low to no calorie.

37:48

There's so many ways to use spices

37:50

where you're not adding to the caloric

37:53

intake and we've seen spices carry

37:55

a correlation for healthier outcomes. And

37:57

notice I say spices aren't necessary.

37:59

are certainly perfectly healthy, but

38:01

they lean healthy. Yeah,

38:04

it's so funny because my relationship with diet

38:06

and nutrition, I know this stuff is very

38:08

nuanced and can frankly be triggering for a

38:10

lot of people, but for me, all

38:12

the people I grew up around, so I was

38:15

a hammer thrower in college, Nicole's sick of hearing about this,

38:17

but my coach- I love it, don't say that, I love

38:19

it. My coach would threaten to take away my scholarship if

38:21

I dropped underneath 250 pounds and

38:23

we were working out constantly. How old were you? This was

38:25

from like 18 to 22 in college. I

38:29

knew a lot of people who were equally likely

38:31

to be trying to gain weight for their specific

38:34

sport as they were trying to lose

38:36

weight. My relationship to this

38:38

is like, it's all very neutral.

38:40

You use nutrition, especially caloric or

38:42

macronutrient intake to satisfy your personal

38:44

goals, whatever they may be. I

38:47

know a lot of power lifters, I know a lot of strong men.

38:50

My buddy who is Greece's national

38:52

record holder in the shop, shout out to Nick Scavellas,

38:54

can't wait to go to your wedding on Samos, buddy.

38:56

But anyways, we were at an XFL game and

38:59

I watched this man pull out a quart

39:01

container filled with white rice covered in mustard.

39:04

And I said, buddy, why the mustard? And he's

39:06

like, well, I need 100 grams of carbs

39:08

right now and mustard has zero calories. And

39:11

I just started listing other things that

39:13

also have zero calories. Soy

39:16

sauce, fish sauce, ginger, garlic,

39:18

cilantro, lime juice, just anything.

39:21

And I want to grab these giant

39:23

hulking body builders and just say, you

39:25

can put the spices in your food,

39:27

man. I've never understood

39:29

the bland chicken, white rice,

39:32

broccoli mentality whenever. I

39:35

think it's because the macros are consistent and

39:38

they crave and desire consistency within

39:40

their routine. So I get

39:42

that, but putting paprika on it isn't gonna completely

39:44

screw it up. And I wish

39:46

I could just like you said, shake them and

39:49

say, you can have like red and green flakes

39:51

on your food. It might make you, I don't

39:53

know, find a little joy in eating. Some

39:55

people, they view food exclusively as fuel.

39:58

And I, you know, can't. empathize with them,

40:01

but I understand. I did watch

40:03

Body Bill to Eat quote macro-friendly

40:05

spaghetti bolognese. Well, it was literally

40:07

10 ounces of lean ground beef

40:10

and what I saw were six

40:12

spaghetti noodles. Only six. Yeah. But

40:14

at that point you can just...

40:16

Make it chili. Yeah, make it

40:18

chili or... It's not spaghetti anymore.

40:21

Oh, can you do a casserole

40:23

with that or no? Absolutely. I'm

40:25

so glad you asked. The state

40:27

of Ohio has like six indigenous

40:29

chili based casseroles. Indigenous? Just in Ohio.

40:31

They were all invented in Ohio. So

40:34

funny. One more. Let's do another one.

40:36

Okay, let's see. Hands...

40:40

Okay, at Hands and Shumaker says,

40:42

chicken thighs are greater than chicken

40:44

breasts. Not only can it be

40:46

more flavorful, but also more forgiving

40:48

to cook. Still a ton of

40:50

protein and fats are not evil.

40:53

I switch up the seasonings so I don't

40:55

get tired of the flavors. Chicken

40:57

breasts versus chicken thigh. I'm

41:00

allowing space for their opinion. I

41:05

like chicken thighs. I lean towards more chicken

41:07

breasts. I buy, I buy in

41:09

my home, more chicken breasts than I

41:11

do chicken thighs. People

41:14

in America buy more boneless,

41:16

skinless chicken breasts than any

41:18

other meat product on

41:20

the market. And it sucks because

41:23

99% of people don't

41:25

know how to cook it properly. The

41:27

best advice I can give is right

41:29

when you get your chicken breasts at

41:31

home, season them with salt.

41:33

That salt is going to permeate throughout

41:35

the entire chicken. You are curing your

41:37

chicken, marinating with anything but

41:40

salt does literally nothing. Spices don't see what

41:42

salt does because it creates a reverse osmotic

41:44

reaction within the protein structures of the

41:46

flesh. It makes your chicken 10 times

41:48

juicier and you won't hate what you're

41:50

eating. True. That said, my one thing

41:52

about diet, my one rule is that

41:55

I will never eat so clean that I have to

41:57

eat chicken breast over a chicken thigh. If you are

42:00

are schwitzing about your decision between thigh

42:02

and breast, I think you've lost the

42:04

plot on what it means to eat

42:06

and enjoy food. That's

42:09

what I believe. That's great. That's good. Mike,

42:11

do you cook? That's

42:14

fair. I don't cook. I

42:16

occasionally dabble, but I generally don't

42:18

cook. What I did find the

42:20

other day, because my cholesterol levels

42:22

came in unfavorably last time

42:24

I checked, I needed to decrease the amount

42:26

of saturated fat I was consuming. There are

42:29

still days of the week where

42:31

I consume red meat and I was

42:33

eating a leaner cut of beef. Then

42:36

I found at Whole Foods they have

42:39

bison tenderloin, which

42:41

has on the label, which means

42:44

that it's probably close to zero, zero grams

42:46

of saturated fat in a four ounce serving.

42:48

I was like, whoa, that's

42:50

kind of awesome. I started eating that instead.

42:52

We'll see how the cholesterol numbers do now. I'm

42:55

a big bison fan. It's also just delicious.

42:58

A bison steak? Beef

43:00

adjacent meats, bison venison, they are really

43:03

great if you probably cook it. I

43:05

also love beef adjacent stuff. Can

43:08

I just ask Mike personal nutrition questions

43:10

now? Because hear me out, my cholesterol

43:12

came back high too and I'm worried.

43:16

Okay. I mean, this is your podcast as much

43:18

as his mind. Go ahead, ask him. I

43:21

don't cook any red meat in the home

43:23

anymore unless it's for something special we're entertaining.

43:25

Julie and I exclusively eat chicken and fish, but what

43:27

I do eat is like over a pound of animal

43:29

flesh a day because I've been raised

43:32

with the idea that one gram of protein

43:34

per pound of body weight and so I

43:36

try and eat roughly 200, I

43:38

don't religiously track, but 200 grams of protein

43:40

per day. I told my

43:42

doctor this, which Mike is my new

43:44

primary care physician. Thank you so much.

43:46

Do you take Blue Shield?

43:49

Only if the co-pay is 10X for the podcast. We

43:51

can do that. We can do that. You can

43:54

talk later. But no,

43:56

I told my doctor, I was like, oh, I don't eat red

43:58

meat. I only eat chicken and fish at home. They were

44:00

like, well, that's still just a lot of meat

44:02

to eat that could be contributing to your cholesterol.

44:05

Probably decrease that. I was like, well, have

44:07

you seen this bodybuilding.com forum article that I've

44:10

printed out for you, Dr. Lajaszewski? She

44:13

did not seem to find that amusing.

44:17

In general, cholesterol is driven

44:20

by consumption of saturated fats,

44:22

which are found primarily in

44:24

animal products. Even

44:26

if you're not consuming red meat, you're

44:28

likely consuming higher saturated fat diet than

44:30

most. You're

44:33

consuming leaner sources of protein with fish and

44:36

chicken. The fish

44:38

has fat, but it's healthy fats.

44:41

That's a good reason to keep fish in. I

44:43

would maybe look to replacing some

44:45

of your chicken protein with

44:48

something like edamame, mung bean

44:51

pasta, or the Banza pasta

44:53

that you'll see in the

44:55

supermarkets, which have both fiber

44:58

and protein, which

45:00

will help your cholesterol levels twofold

45:02

because you're getting less saturated fat,

45:04

but still getting your protein. Second,

45:07

when you increase fiber, we've actually seen decreases

45:09

in cholesterol as well. That's what I'm doing

45:11

myself as well. We're kind of on

45:14

the same trajectory. I'll keep you

45:16

updated with my LDL levels if you do the same. Is

45:18

LDL bad? From the same together. LDL is bad. HDL

45:21

is good? It's the marker. Yeah,

45:23

the marker of LDL is considered the

45:25

bad class. Nicole, ask me about seed

45:28

oils. Do it. Okay. Hey,

45:31

Dr. Mike, can you

45:34

tell me a little bit about seed oils? Give

45:36

me like a two minute spiel about seed oils

45:38

and why you think they're either good, bad, neutral,

45:40

or you just, just what are they? Tell us

45:42

about them. I would

45:45

say that they're neutral and the hype around them.

45:47

It's neutral because we're still lacking some

45:50

data, much in the same way that

45:52

we can't clarify as artificial sweeteners being

45:54

all good or bad. Same

45:56

thing with seed oils. Look, if you're having

45:58

seed oils to excess. It's going to be bad.

46:01

But if you have water to excess, it'll

46:03

be bad. There's medical conditions related to that

46:05

where you throw off your electrolytes so bad,

46:07

you can go into a coma. You

46:10

eat enough carrots, you turn orange. But that doesn't

46:12

mean the carrots are unhealthy. So

46:15

much in the same way, if I asked you a question that's

46:17

not medical, like are hammers bad?

46:19

What would you say? Hammers,

46:21

it depends what you do with them. Oh,

46:25

look at that. You're bringing some nuance

46:27

into the conversation. Yeah, I did it. So

46:30

yeah, the same way. Do

46:33

we have any other, if anybody can leave the room, I have

46:35

a rash that I was trying to... I'm just

46:37

saying, now that we're here, it's probably fun. I

46:40

drink from your cup, am I going to get it? Yeah,

46:42

it's not with the rashes. Oh, good. No, I'm kidding.

46:44

Dr. Mike, thank you so much, man. This

46:46

was absolutely incredible that you gave us

46:48

very clear, concise answers that have one

46:50

word take away. No,

46:53

I'm really grateful to bring some nuance into this

46:55

conversation and hopefully our audience can take something away

46:58

from that and from somebody that's significantly smarter than

47:00

both of us. I sure did. I

47:04

think the biggest takeaway is to use

47:07

nuance as a superpower, A, B,

47:09

not to villainize or be

47:11

deathly afraid of one ingredient

47:13

or nutrient, and

47:18

in general, think of diet

47:20

as part of your lifestyle and not

47:22

just, oh, this food is bad, this

47:24

food is good, this food is bad, because that

47:27

creates a lot of unhealthy eating habits that

47:30

usually, even if they're helping you for

47:32

the short term, long term, it's not

47:34

going to be sustainable and valuable, and

47:36

here, it's about creating sustainable habits. Beautifully

47:39

said, and don't put cocaine in your coffee.

47:41

On that note, thank you so much for

47:43

listening to a Hot Dog is a Sandwich.

47:45

You got new audio-only episodes every Wednesday, video

47:47

version here on YouTube every Sunday. And

47:50

if you want to be featured on Opinions or

47:52

like casseroles, give us a ring and leave a

47:54

quick message at 833-DOGS-HOD1. And make sure

47:56

to check out Dr. Mike on his YouTube channel at

47:58

Dr. Mike. Doc, you got it. got anything else to

48:01

share? As always, stay happy and healthy.

48:05

I'll see you all next time. Thanks

48:07

again, Doc.