There's so much happening for our leads in episode 5, and who better to walk us through this transformative episode than its writer? Mfoniso Udofia (A League of Their Own, Her Portmanteau) joins host Carolyn Bergier (Dyking Out podcast) to unpack all of the emotions that Max, Carson, and Lupe are struggling with. What is going through Max's mind when she meets Bert? Why does the Toni/Max fight hit so hard? And how did the writer's room navigate conversations about privilege in such a refreshing and authentic way? Plus, you'll learn the origin of the "have a catch" vs. "play catch" debate. And let's pour one Dr. Pepper out for Gary and his "nice" horse sheets, shall we? Huge thanks to Mfoniso for all of her thoughtful and illuminating insights on this pivotal episode!

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Sound mixing by Matt Harmon

Episode Art by Ceci Bergier

Theme song: Choo Choo Ch'Boogie by Louis Jardin & His Tympany Five